Have you felt yourself drift from your friends pre-motherhood? Or have you found making new and meaningful friendships hard after becoming a mom? I welcome Danielle Bayard Jackson, a relational health educator who has made a career out of studying what the research has to say about creating quality platonic relationships. She also has a new book coming out called, Fighting for Our Friendships: The Science and Art of Conflict and Connection in Women’s Relationships.

She joins me to discuss:

• The three reasons why friendships after motherhood are so hard to make and maintain
• Why having meaningful and strong female connections is important for our mental health
• How to handle “passive” friendships
• Practical ways to find meaningful connections with peers amidst the mental load and business of our lives

Connect with Danielle on Instagram @daniellebayardjackson. Check out her book!

We love the sponsors that make this show possible! You can always find all the special deals and codes for all our current sponsors on the PedsDocTalk Podcast Sponsors page of the website.

00:00:01:01 – 00:00:22:17
Danielle Bayard Jackson
But one thing I’ll say for the person who’s struggling to find new friends in the season is, you know, I focus on friendship, but, so it might sound strange to hear me say this, but I always say try to find ways that you can prioritize connection over friendship, because one mindset I have heard from a lot of women is, you’re carrying around this big, lofty goal day to day.

00:00:22:19 – 00:00:40:06
Danielle Bayard Jackson
I need new friends. I need a new friend. And that can put a lot of pressure. Maybe you don’t realize, and you might be overlooking these small moments of connection with others. And in terms of like your your relational health and social health, if you just have one meaningful social interaction per day, if you can find a way to position yourself for that.

00:00:40:08 – 00:00:50:26
Danielle Bayard Jackson
I strongly believe that cultivating friendships would be a natural byproduct of that. So how can I do a lot of the things I’ve been doing alone? How can I socialize them by one degree?

00:00:50:29 – 00:01:14:21
Dr. Mona
Hello, PedsDocTalk podcast listeners, thank you for being here. I know the juggle is real as parents and even if you’re not a parent, so I appreciate you taking time out of your day to tune in to these awesome conversations that I get to have about child health development, parenting, and parental mental health. This show is a top 50 parenting podcast in the United States, but let’s make it a top 20 this year.

00:01:14:21 – 00:01:41:26
Dr. Mona
So leave those reviews and update those reviews and share the show with whoever has a child, was a child, or wants to learn about how to better connect with children and themselves. Today’s guest is Danielle Bayard Jackson, who is a former high school teacher who now serves as a relational health educator, which means she makes a career out of studying what the research has to say about creating quality platonic relationships.

00:01:42:02 – 00:01:52:11
Dr. Mona
And she’s joining me today to talk about why it’s so hard making and maintaining meaningful friendships in motherhood. Thank you so much for joining me today, Danielle.

00:01:52:14 – 00:01:55:17
Danielle Bayard Jackson
Thank you for having me. I’m excited to jump into this conversation.

00:01:55:19 – 00:02:17:24
Dr. Mona
I am so excited. You know, I have a forum for people to submit. You know who that want to come on the show. And when I saw you submit and your team, I was like, this is an amazing person. You know, I have a lot of followers who are moms who, after they became mothers, felt this sort of isolation, felt that it was hard to stay connected to friendships we’ve had in the past, and also to make new friends.

00:02:17:27 – 00:02:25:19
Dr. Mona
So before we even dive into all of this information, tell us more about yourself and why this topic is near and dear to you.

00:02:25:22 – 00:02:43:25
Danielle Bayard Jackson
Yeah, so I started my career as a high school teacher and I was teaching 12th graders. And it’s the number one thing they wanted to talk about was their friendship issues. And then I left that world and got into public relations, and I was surprised to see that there were these high achieving, charismatic women, and they too were secretly dealing with friendship issues.

00:02:44:01 – 00:03:01:22
Danielle Bayard Jackson
And a lot of my clientele are mothers who are saying, maybe I have connections, but I am deeply unsatisfied in my friendship. And so I was very curious about the ways in which friendship tends to change during this unique period in our lives.

00:03:01:24 – 00:03:20:27
Dr. Mona
Oh, fascinating. And I probably one of those women, by the way, which is why I was so excited to have you on. You know, I have a huge platform here with my Instagram and my podcast, and people would assume that, oh, Doctor Mona probably has all these amazing connections. And not to say I don’t have them, but I’ve definitely lost connection with a lot of the friends I used to have.

00:03:21:02 – 00:03:40:15
Dr. Mona
Not any animosity, bad way, but just distance and time. And then also finding it really hard to connect with new friends that I’m trying to make in my late 30s. You know, I feel like I’m a little more I’m going to use this word picky. I’m a little more selective on who I let into my space, and that can mean not making as many friends.

00:03:40:15 – 00:03:56:00
Dr. Mona
So I think this is a topic that’s going to be so useful for our listeners, but also for myself as well. And so many of us feel that we have these meaningful friendships before becoming a mother, and then they can disappear. Why do you feel like this happens?

00:03:56:03 – 00:04:13:13
Danielle Bayard Jackson
I think there are a couple reasons for that. The first is lack of time, lack of practice, and lack of support. And so first, with lack of time, I mean, you already know you’ve got these little ones. They depend on you in so many ways. And so not having the same amount of time available to nurture the friendships you did pre motherhood.

00:04:13:15 – 00:04:33:09
Danielle Bayard Jackson
And it’s really tricky because sometimes you don’t know what you’ve got until it’s gone. And so having little ones specifically you know can be really really demanding cognitively physically until some of us are burnt out afterwards, have a long day with the kids or we don’t have the extra time and the reserves to invest in the commute and to the hours long brunches.

00:04:33:14 – 00:04:48:27
Danielle Bayard Jackson
And so time seems to be the first or number one thing that people often cite to me for why those friendships feel like they’re fading out is because we don’t have as much time as we did before to pour into them. And then the second thing will be lack of practice. And I always say, give yourself a little bit of grace.

00:04:48:27 – 00:05:07:16
Danielle Bayard Jackson
I know that’s like a mantra for moms, but you’ve never had practice being friends like this. You’ve never had to coordinate the schedule to work things in according to another human being. You’ve never had to do this. But for some of us, I think we experience so much dissatisfaction because we’re trying to apply the same scripts from free motherhood.

00:05:07:21 – 00:05:25:21
Danielle Bayard Jackson
And that’s not going to work, but never having the moment to pause and say, oh, I think I’m going to have to re learn how to navigate this because all of my conditions are different. So there’s good news. We can figure it out. But I just want to validate. Yeah that makes it challenging. And that’s what changes. And the last thing I’ll say is lack of support.

00:05:25:24 – 00:05:38:19
Danielle Bayard Jackson
You have to have a partner and community that support you. Having time to go and spend with your friends who encourage you to pause and go and be with your girlfriends. And a lot of us, unfortunately, don’t have that.

00:05:38:21 – 00:05:54:23
Dr. Mona
I mean, let alone trying to find that crew and that team that’s going to help your kid to take care of yourself. Like, obviously I look at relationships as fun. Like, I love getting to see my girlfriends and have fun, but also I also need to sleep. I also need to hopefully work out, you know, things that are also important for me.

00:05:54:23 – 00:06:15:16
Dr. Mona
Solo. So you’re already I feel like so many moms already struggling trying to find the time for them, let alone the connection with others, which we know is so important. But they don’t even have time for connection with self, which I found to be such a struggle with, especially these small children under five six years of age that are not yet in like a school system, that are like they’re very dependent from a developmental need.

00:06:15:16 – 00:06:23:12
Dr. Mona
And it’s so hard. You’re I love the way you frame that. The lack of time, lack of practice and lack of support. Right on. I completely resonate with that.

00:06:23:14 – 00:06:37:19
Danielle Bayard Jackson
Yeah, it can be really tricky. And I’ve got two. I’ve got a five year old, a two year old and same thing. And I love that. You’re making the point about, you know, we don’t even have time for ourselves sometimes, let alone friendship. And that is so real. I mean, sleep is so necessary. Okay. That precious gem, right?

00:06:37:21 – 00:06:54:18
Danielle Bayard Jackson
Yeah. But, you know, I would also argue that time with friends is time for self and finding ways. How do I incorporate and integrate both? Because now I’ve got to find a way to fold these hours into one another. So it’s, in my opinion, less of a matter of how do I find additional hours and how do I use the hours I’ve got?

00:06:54:19 – 00:07:15:25
Danielle Bayard Jackson
How do I stack them up? So maybe my daily walk around the park, you know, with pushing the baby around. Hey friends, you want to join me and tell me about your date last night while we go on this walk? So it sounds a lot less sexy, but what are the ways that I can incorporate the workout? The being an, you know, nature for my mental health, running errands and inviting a friend along, and being content with that.

00:07:15:29 – 00:07:18:14
Danielle Bayard Jackson
Qualifying our time together.

00:07:18:17 – 00:07:38:00
Dr. Mona
Yeah, and I love how you’re describing the evolution of how things change, right? I mean, you said it perfectly, that lack of practice. Yes. We’ve all made friends in our early 20s or before we had children. But you’re right that now there’s different dynamics at play. I mean, not only are you changed in terms of your ability for time, maybe your interests have changed your sleep deprivation has obviously changed.

00:07:38:07 – 00:07:58:15
Dr. Mona
So there’s so many variables that I think you said are great, that having that grace to understand, that things evolve as you evolve in your motherhood journey and that’s talking about connecting with obviously friendships we’ve made have had in the past. But I also find personally and also for a lot of my community, that they feel it’s really hard making new friends in motherhood.

00:07:58:15 – 00:08:10:00
Dr. Mona
And why do you feel that that is so hard? You know, the examples you gave of, you know, meeting up with someone and maybe going on a stroller run or errands together? That difficulty in finding and meeting new people.

00:08:10:03 – 00:08:35:15
Danielle Bayard Jackson
Yeah. So so it’s a couple things, but one thing I’ll say for the person who’s struggling to find new friends in the season is, you know, I focus on friendship, but, so it might sound strange to hear me say this, but I always say try to find ways that you can prioritize connection over friendship. Because one mindset I have heard from a lot of women is you’re carrying around this big, lofty goal day to day of I need new friends, I need a new friend.

00:08:35:15 – 00:08:55:28
Danielle Bayard Jackson
And that can put a lot of pressure. Maybe you don’t realize and you might be overlooked in these small moments of connection with others. And in terms of like your your relational health and social health, if you just have one meaningful social interaction per day, if you can find a way to position yourself for that. I strongly believe that cultivating friendships would be a natural byproduct of that.

00:08:56:03 – 00:09:20:18
Danielle Bayard Jackson
So how can I do a lot of the things I’ve been doing alone? How can I socialize them by one degree, whether it’s reading in the park or taking the baby outside to walk around or like, how can I socialize my interest? How can I say hello to neighbors? I normally don’t speak to? I mean, I know this sounds very, very basic, but these are all opportunities to organically, quote unquote, you know, organically make friendships.

00:09:20:18 – 00:09:41:19
Danielle Bayard Jackson
But how are you prioritizing connection and what opportunities are you dismissing because you assume, oh, I can be friends with people like that, girls like that? I know that I definitely almost overlooked an opportunity to be plugged in to a mommy group when I had my first child because I was like, I’m not a mommy group kind of gal, you know?

00:09:41:21 – 00:10:08:09
Danielle Bayard Jackson
That’s not my vibe. And I definitely made friends there. Some I did not. They they were just surface level connections. But the research shows that we need those two sociologists referred to those as weak ties. People who maybe we’re not super ultra close, but you still add value to my life. Whether you’re giving me access to resources, whether you’re affirming a very unique problem that I have, that my besties can’t relate to, I need all those forms and layers of connection.

00:10:08:14 – 00:10:17:20
Danielle Bayard Jackson
And so the first task I would give for the person who’s like, I want to make new friends is find a way to prioritize connection, and the friendships will follow.

00:10:17:22 – 00:10:41:01
Dr. Mona
Very beautifully said, because I think social media can also make it really hard to respect that your friendships can look different that week. Tie versus, like you said, the weak tie versus the bestie, right? Like you see a lot of women who go on girl trips with some of their friends, right? And you’re like, wow, I may not have that sort of community at this moment of my life, but I do have these people in my life that serve a really great purpose in providing me that connection.

00:10:41:05 – 00:10:57:02
Dr. Mona
We may not be jet setting or have the funds or time to do that, but everything just looks different. And I think sometimes when you get into that comparison game or that sort of, well, what should my friendships look like in motherhood, then? You tend to feel bad about what you actually do have in front of you, which I agree.

00:10:57:07 – 00:11:15:03
Dr. Mona
I myself have a plethora of different relationships, and many of my relationships right now are what you described as those weak ties which I, I love, like I love seeing them. Are we the best of friends and know everything about each other? Are we going to go on a vacation together? Probably not, but that is okay I love that.

00:11:15:05 – 00:11:31:10
Danielle Bayard Jackson
Yeah it’s really important to to have those different layers. And I so appreciate what you’re saying about the comparison game is so real, especially as a mom. I know I’m spending a lot of time on social media during the period where I was breastfeeding. You’re like isolated, alone in the room by yourself, scrolling scrolling, scrolling, feeling like I’m falling behind.

00:11:31:16 – 00:11:48:16
Danielle Bayard Jackson
My friends are forgetting about me, you know, just all the panic and anxiety around that. But I love the point you’re making about, okay, what’s tangible for me? What do I already have to work with? You know, a lot of times when we think about making friends, we kind of use that phrase synonymously with meeting new people, but the two aren’t necessarily the same.

00:11:48:16 – 00:12:07:04
Danielle Bayard Jackson
Nobody said you have to start from scratch, because I’d argue that a lot of us have some people we vibe with who we’ve already met, but for some reason we dismiss them as a valid candidate for potential friendship for whatever reason. I mean, there’s no reason you can’t reach out and say, hey, you crossed my mind today. I thought of you.

00:12:07:04 – 00:12:13:15
Danielle Bayard Jackson
And if you’re ever around and want to get coffee or if you ever want to take a walk, I think you would be surprised at how much people appreciate that.

00:12:13:17 – 00:12:47:03
Dr. Mona
Yeah, absolutely. And kind of going back to what you originally talked about with, you know, we talked about the friendships that we had before that may not be there. Now, one of the common things that I hear from a lot of my community and I’ve experienced as well, is that distancing of old relationships, like I had read a post somewhere that, you know, adulting is wild because you could be besties with someone, and yet they still haven’t met your two year old, you know, like, and so there’s there is a culture around that, that even the friends that you like loved, like you have so many fond memories of and maybe don’t talk to every

00:12:47:03 – 00:13:01:17
Dr. Mona
day may not be in your life. Do you see that often from your clients and from your work that you’ve done, that those meaningful relationships don’t seem as meaningful or maybe they’re not as involved as they used to be. Now let’s take a break to hear from our sponsors.

00:13:01:19 – 00:13:24:05
Danielle Bayard Jackson
Oh, sure. You know, and friendships, you know, they’re dynamic. And the definition of dynamic means, you know, some of that’s defined by constant change. And I think we know that intellectually, like who among us doesn’t acknowledge that. Yes. But when it’s actually happening, it is very jarring because we’re trying to reconcile our expectations with reality. And I expected that you’d always be in my life this consistently and this deeply.

00:13:24:11 – 00:13:49:26
Danielle Bayard Jackson
And now you don’t know who my child is, who’s a very important part of my life. I don’t know what you do for work anymore, you know? I don’t know what you know. I mean, I don’t know what’s going on. And so, you know, a couple things that can help to kind of rectify that is one you have permission to say to your friend, I know a lot of things have changed and we’re both on the go, but man, it’s really important to me to to get back to our Friday morning FaceTime.

00:13:49:28 – 00:14:03:22
Danielle Bayard Jackson
Man. I really want to make sure we see each other once a month. And I tell you, I know for a lot of people that might feel awkward or really intense and we’re like, oh gosh, that sounds clingy. I want you to ask yourself, do I feel this dare to do that in other contexts of my life?

00:14:03:29 – 00:14:22:09
Danielle Bayard Jackson
Because when we go to work, there’s a natural time that’s carved out for performance reviews. How am I doing? What do I need to do more of next quarter? Okay, with your romantic partner, it’s normal to say, babe, I feel like we’re not connecting. What’s going on? I need more of this. I don’t know why it is that in friendship that feels extra risky.

00:14:22:15 – 00:14:39:09
Danielle Bayard Jackson
And we don’t want to say what we need. And we subscribe to the belief that it just ought to happen organically. But if you have friendship that a feed it out and you have a desire to reintegrate them back into your life, you’ve told permission to say, hey, I miss you. I know things are crazy right now, but are you down for like a Friday morning?

00:14:39:09 – 00:14:48:23
Danielle Bayard Jackson
Catch up 30 minutes, face time? I mean, whatever it is. But that’s one way to actively announce your desire, which I know feels very vulnerable for some of us.

00:14:48:26 – 00:15:09:26
Dr. Mona
Absolutely. I love how you talk about that, because we put so much priority in the parent child relationship, in our relationships with our romantic partners. But you’re right, there is this sort of uncomfortability and almost like the lack of wanting to create any sort of like uncomfortability of like, what are they going to say? You know, and I’m like, well, that’s probably part of the relationship.

00:15:09:26 – 00:15:26:20
Dr. Mona
And the connection is really if you love that relationship, see something about it. And, you know, one thing I always hear is, a frustration of a woman may feel like they’re putting in more effort, but then that woman is not returning it back, you know? And then they feel, well, why am I always the one trying to make the effort?

00:15:26:22 – 00:15:29:01
Dr. Mona
Do you hear that sentiment a lot too?

00:15:29:03 – 00:15:48:05
Danielle Bayard Jackson
Oh my gosh. If I had a dollar for every time I heard that we’d be having this interview for my house in Bora Bora, okay, like, yeah, it’s like the number one thing is like, I, reciprocity, which the research does show, is way more important to women in their friendships than men claim to prioritize. Is reciprocity balanced equality?

00:15:48:05 – 00:15:52:11
Danielle Bayard Jackson
I want to know we’re both in this together. And so yes, I’ve definitely heard that before.

00:15:52:14 – 00:16:10:29
Dr. Mona
And I will say you have two children as well. When I had one well before I became a parent, I would look at my friends who had children before me and I’d be like, wow, like, they’re so busy. Okay, I know that’s really hard having a kid. That’s fine. I had my first child and it was in a pandemic, so things were like there was nothing happening besides just work and life.

00:16:11:02 – 00:16:29:21
Dr. Mona
And I was like, okay. And I would stay connected, you know, and I would reach out to my friends and I’m like, why is she responding? Like I’m a mom to like, what is it? And then I became a parent of a second child outside of the pandemic. And now I like to see a text message, and it takes me a week to even remember that I need to respond to that.

00:16:29:23 – 00:16:45:26
Dr. Mona
And it’s so it’s like, now I feel bad for all the like, why aren’t they getting back to me? Like, it’s not that bad, like we all are in the same boat. But I think there’s also this understanding that everyone has different resources, but also like mental capacity and mental load of like what they need to handle that.

00:16:46:01 – 00:16:59:25
Dr. Mona
It’s not always personal, I realize. And sometimes, like you said, the communication needs to happen. Like, hey, I miss you. We haven’t talked. When can we talk? Like not like? Yeah, holding it passive aggressive and all that that I think many times some women do.

00:16:59:28 – 00:17:20:19
Danielle Bayard Jackson
Yeah. Oh my gosh I am like nodding in agreement 100%. And I know sometimes you know, this this popular concept of like low maintenance friendships is taking off like friends I don’t have to talk to. We’re still friends. Yes, I, I have strong opinions on that. I get it, but some of us need to be able to proudly proclaim I desire active friendships in this group in my life.

00:17:20:19 – 00:17:39:17
Danielle Bayard Jackson
That’s what I’m looking for, is active support. And we are deeply integrated into each other’s day to day life. And so two things I would say to the woman who feels like, I want more, but I don’t know what to say. What’s going on? I would say two things. The first is narrow down your top three women because you can feel overwhelmed by thinking about all the people you want to catch up with and all the.

00:17:39:17 – 00:18:01:25
Danielle Bayard Jackson
But who are your top three? Okay, maybe they’re not deeply integrated into your life right now, but we’re just curious about them. That’s enough. Who are the top three women? I want to be intentional about finding a way we can put some aspect of our friendship on autopilot, because a lot of the issue is the scheduling. Okay. It’s it’s what can you do Tuesday at eight and let’s remove the mental labor.

00:18:02:02 – 00:18:19:15
Danielle Bayard Jackson
Hey, are you done to every other week we FaceTime on Fridays. Hey, you know, everyone say, do you want to walk with me in the park? Something manageable, something low lift and something we can commit to and put an aspect of our friendship on autopilot? That’s one way to start integrating a little more activity and predictability so you can work around it in your schedule.

00:18:19:17 – 00:18:37:17
Danielle Bayard Jackson
The second thing is, if you are frustrated because you feel like you have a lack of those deep connections, and the frustration is maybe amplified because you don’t have any connection. So you’re especially hungry for those three. You guys get plugged into community as well. So like, yes, we need to be intimately known in these friendships, but are you involved in in anything?

00:18:37:23 – 00:18:56:05
Danielle Bayard Jackson
Because it might help to just be among others, people who you share some aspect of your identity with, you know, some religious practice, some, you know, art thing that lets you bring the babies. I mean, but what else are you involved in where maybe the priority is not, I want to make friends at this club. Maybe it’s, hey, I really I’ve always had this interest.

00:18:56:05 – 00:19:10:12
Danielle Bayard Jackson
I’ve never been able to pursue it or hey, I think I know I need to connect with other people a couple times a week and just start there. So I think those two things will help to start to get us feeling a little more satisfaction. In our personal relationships.

00:19:10:15 – 00:19:30:12
Dr. Mona
Oh, very well said. And I love that you already have provided so many examples. You know, you talked about rather than trying to make it a priority to make the friend going to events or things that really serve you and maybe making the connections there. And already, I love how you are prioritizing connection over the label of a friend, because that is what I think everyone at the bottom four is wanting.

00:19:30:14 – 00:19:42:07
Dr. Mona
How would you guide a mom to finding that connection? Admits the mental load and life of being a mother. So I know you already mentioned some great examples. Is there anything else you would want to add to that on how they can approach that?

00:19:42:09 – 00:20:01:09
Danielle Bayard Jackson
Yeah, so I know that so far the insights I’ve been offering have been around how to position yourself, maybe physically like where to go scripts and what to say to revive an old friendship. But once you get there, if we’re talking about feeling connected and seen, once you get there, how you show up matters to. So I mean, I’m just I gotta keep it real here.

00:20:01:09 – 00:20:23:24
Danielle Bayard Jackson
All right? Some of us are trying to pursue relationship. The people who are not available. We don’t feel safe to share a real opinion. A part of us is kind of just performing a part of us, if we’re being honest with ourselves, we just want to feel like we belong. And this looks like an established mom group. And it would be we like how we would feel about ourselves if they approved us being in the group, you know?

00:20:23:24 – 00:20:44:26
Danielle Bayard Jackson
So can you if you really stripped down, okay, these connections you’re pursuing, are they with people who won? They are demonstrating a willingness to be active with you, too. If you took away all the fluff, the fancy brunches, and spending a lot of money on dinners, if you stripped all that and invited her over just to sit on the couch, would that be sufficient?

00:20:45:03 – 00:21:05:16
Danielle Bayard Jackson
Or is there any party that feels like this particular woman would not be okay with that? Because she needs to be entertained? Okay, so the quality of relationship is what we’re looking for, for connection. Because I don’t want you to prioritize getting out there and doing all the things. And still for some reason, feeling tired because you’re performing or feeling, dissatisfied because these are people who only want to speak about themselves.

00:21:05:20 – 00:21:31:21
Danielle Bayard Jackson
They demonstrate no interest in your life. Okay, we want quality connections. So two tangible things you can do is one, you can get comfortable making space to talk about yourself and making sure these are things that are maybe relatively vulnerable to the degree that you feel comfortable. But that’s how we become more seen and known. Right. And then on the other side, for the other people you’re engaging with, can you show them they are seen and known.

00:21:31:21 – 00:21:56:14
Danielle Bayard Jackson
So maybe after we hang out, I’m following up with her and saying, hey, thank you so much for making time to come over. I love when we’re together and hearing about all the things that you’ve got going on. Like, I admire the way that you’re balancing everything. I admire XYZ, but how do I demonstrate to you I appreciate you, I value which ironically, we so often don’t do with those we’re closest with, assuming they ought to know.

00:21:56:16 – 00:22:09:05
Danielle Bayard Jackson
And so if I’m trying to have more satisfaction of us feeling safe and seen, I highly encourage you to, when you have those interactions, to make them count and make sure they’re with people who make you feel good about who you are.

00:22:09:08 – 00:22:28:27
Dr. Mona
Yeah, I love that. Oh yes, I want to feel good. And I, you know, your whole platform in your whole life mission now is about creating these quality platonic relationships. And so, in your opinion, why are these female friendships so important? And what qualities do you see in a meaningful, strong female connection?

00:22:28:29 – 00:22:46:00
Danielle Bayard Jackson
Yeah. So you know, I always like starting with the research so people don’t think I’m just being fluffy. And I’m like, you need your girls, you know what you do. But it’s like, okay, enough of that advice. But, you know, the research keeps pointing to how important it is. So the first thing I like to anchor these conversations with is the longest running study on happiness has been conducted by Harvard.

00:22:46:02 – 00:23:20:08
Danielle Bayard Jackson
And they have found that of all these other factors, the number one thing that determines how happy you are and how physically healthy you are is quality relationships. The number one thing? Okay, so that right there should give us some sense of urgency. Now with women specifically in women’s relationships, there are lots of other benefits. There’s research that finds that, you know, when they first did that study of, fight or flight as, stress responses, it was with men when they did that study again, they found that women have two additional responses to distress.

00:23:20:12 – 00:23:40:07
Danielle Bayard Jackson
And that’s tend or befriend meaning we’ll go to those who we deem as vulnerable and tend to them in distress and care. Take or we’ll go and gather with our girls. And when we do, it decreases cortisol, our stress hormone, and increases oxytocin. So quite literally, when I am kind of in the trenches, I need another woman sometimes to go and talk to.

00:23:40:07 – 00:23:59:17
Danielle Bayard Jackson
And and she gets it. She can affirm my experience. She can say, you got this. She can offer script for how she navigated it, because she knows what it’s like to be a woman in this world. She likely has higher emotional intelligence than maybe a male counterpart. I know I’m generalizing here, so I might feel validated. I might feel heard.

00:23:59:17 – 00:24:20:17
Danielle Bayard Jackson
Right? And so having these people to go to is very helpful for our mental, physical and emotional health. And so I just can’t stress that enough, because I know we so often talk about friendship as like a recreational pastime, but it’s about so much more than having people go to brunch with it is a wellness imperative to have community and friendship.

00:24:20:20 – 00:24:47:21
Dr. Mona
I agree, and I know in the pandemic, you know, we’re recording this obviously outside of that peak pandemic time, it felt so isolating. Right. And you going back to that term that you used of lack of connection, you know, that lack of connection, lack of being able to even have these opportunities. And I know it took the real toll on my mental health, especially as a new mother joining in in this new role, not having anyone to relate to mommy’s groups just weren’t happening because of contact issues, you know?

00:24:47:21 – 00:25:02:23
Dr. Mona
And I know that that took a real tool and it kind of shows you not even just from the research, but just from a feeling that I’m sure you and a lot of your clients and a lot of the people you speak to can relate to that. Yeah. When I’m not feeling connected to other human beings, especially, I agree with other women.

00:25:02:28 – 00:25:21:22
Dr. Mona
I love my connection with my husband and my children, but it’s that relatability. It’s that, hey, I’m going through something. And as a female, we do get it. You you said and you said like, oh yeah, I know I’m generalizing, but no, there is a difference. Especially when it’s another mother, hopefully. And to your point, sometimes that person may not be the person.

00:25:21:22 – 00:25:42:27
Dr. Mona
Like even though they’re a mom and they’ve gone through the same experiences you do. Maybe they’re not the uplifting person that you need them to be in your life, and recognizing that is important too. But it is a connection piece that I think so much of us lacked in the pandemic. And still a lot of new moms feel so isolated, even maybe 4 or 5 years down the line of having a new baby.

00:25:42:29 – 00:25:44:26
Danielle Bayard Jackson
Yeah, yeah, I totally agree.

00:25:44:29 – 00:25:51:00
Dr. Mona
Oh, this is such a great conversation. What would be a final message for everyone listening today?

00:25:51:02 – 00:26:17:03
Danielle Bayard Jackson
I think my final message of encouragement would just be that this is temporary, that this feeling behind and overextended and disconnected is temporary. The research tells us that a friendship dip already occurs in your 30s, where things kind of go down, the connection, the socialization, and then it goes back up. Right. But that I feel like it’s even deeper that dip when you’ve got children in your 30s.

00:26:17:11 – 00:26:38:09
Danielle Bayard Jackson
So I like mentioning that dip because you might be with other peers. Right now who are echoing your sentiments of despair and hopelessness. And it is really hard, and I’m sure you’re tired. But what I need women to not do is to start to feel hopeless, to start to feel like it’s too late for them. They should have made all their friends and out.

00:26:38:16 – 00:26:53:17
Danielle Bayard Jackson
So to start to feel like there’s no promise of deep quality friendships on the other side. And there are. And so for the woman who just needs to feel like it is possible and this is temporary, I hope that this is, some form of encouragement for her.

00:26:53:20 – 00:27:03:03
Dr. Mona
Oh, it really was. I mean, I’m feeling inspired. So thank you so much for sharing all of this information. Where can people go to stay connected to you and your resources?

00:27:03:06 – 00:27:12:19
Danielle Bayard Jackson
Yeah, I’m so excited. My book, fighting for Our Friendship come down on May 7th, and all the information about all the things lives at Better Female friendships.com.

00:27:12:21 – 00:27:29:17
Dr. Mona
Wonderful. And I’ll be adding that to our show notes, everybody, so that you can get access to the book as well as all of Danielle’s resources. And thank you again for joining me and using this term, connecting with me. I love my podcast. You know, you talk about going to the places where you feel like the energy is there.

00:27:29:21 – 00:27:46:12
Dr. Mona
Podcasting is where I love to be. It’s my joy of my platform. I just get to chat with people from across the world about things like this, and it really brings me a lot of connection and joy. So thank you for being a part of my 30 minutes here of my life, and really inspiring me today to.

00:27:46:15 – 00:27:48:03
Danielle Bayard Jackson
Thank you so much for having me.

00:27:48:06 – 00:28:07:07
Dr. Mona
And for everyone tuning in. I hope you enjoyed this episode. I hope you’re really thinking about ways that you can add connection into your life. Search for ways to prioritize these relationships and remind yourself how important it is. Like she said, for the longevity and the happiness, the mental and physical health of your life. Connection is really important and it’s doable.

00:28:07:12 – 00:28:23:07
Dr. Mona
Even though we are busy. I know Danielle has a five year old and a two year old at the time of this recording. I have a four year old and a 910 month old, and I know that it’s difficult, but it is about making those small steps. If you love this episode, leave that review, leave that rating. Tag us on social.

00:28:23:11 – 00:28:32:07
Dr. Mona
Make sure that we know that you love this episode, because that’s how we know that this podcast can continue to grow, and I cannot wait to chat to another guest next time.