I’m happy to welcome Dr. Tasha Brown, a Licensed Clinical Psychologist. We talk about racial injustice in America and how to speak to children about what they may be seeing in the media.

Where do you start in addressing these issues?
Should you turn off the media?
Why is understanding media bias important especially in racial issues?
How can we make meaningful change for racial equality?
Why does representation matter so much to minority communities?
How can you foster activism in your child for the BLM movement or any social justice movement?
What are the long-term impacts of oppression and racism on a child?

00;00;06;09 – 00;00;35;08

Dr. Mona

Hey, everyone. Welcome to the PedsDocTalk podcast. I’m your host, Doctor Mona, where each week I hope to educate and inspire you in your journey through parenthood with information on your most common concerns as a parent and interviews with fellow parents and experts in the field. My hope is you leave each week feeling more educated, confident, and empowered in the decisions you make for your child.

 

00;00;35;10 – 00;00;59;15

Dr. Mona

Welcome to this very important episode. I am so, so excited to have Doctor Tasha Brown joining me today. So if you’re listening to this episode, obviously early June, on May 25th, George Floyd died at the hands of a police officer. And this sparked outcry due to the race’s of George, who is a black American and the police officer who was a white American.

 

00;00;59;18 – 00;01;20;25

Dr. Mona

And it exposed what we have known for a very long time, the racial injustices present in America, especially in the black American community. Right. And these issues just were, you know, lifted the veil up once again. But it’s not stuff that we never really we’ve always known this was happening. And I’m really excited to welcome Doctor Tasha Brown.

 

00;01;21;04 – 00;01;42;18

Dr. Mona

Because it’s important that everyone listening to this, whether you’re listening to it in June or two years from, you know, 2020, that you understand that these issues have been going on for centuries. And it’s important that we make an active effort to change the next generation and impact our children in a positive way. So, Doctor Tasha Brown, thank you for joining me.

 

00;01;42;20 – 00;01;46;02

Dr. Tasha Brown

Thank you for having me. I’m excited to be here with you.

 

00;01;46;04 – 00;02;07;09

Dr. Mona

I am so excited. You know, we connected really kind of last minute in a way. I was like, you know, just looking for amazing people to just speak, speak about these important issues. And I came across your Instagram, and so for all of you listening, you should follow her doctor period. So doctor Dot Tasha is Tasha Brown, bro.

 

00;02;07;11 – 00;02;21;13

Dr. Mona

And, you to follow her because just what she’s giving to the Instagram space is so needed. And I’m so excited you’re here. So tell me more about your your degree and your position and what your passions are in your career as a clinical psychologist.

 

00;02;21;15 – 00;02;50;27

Dr. Tasha Brown

Yeah. So I am a licensed clinical psychologist. I currently practice in New York. In the daytime. My daytime job, I work at a major hospital here in New York City. And I do a couple of things. I’m based in a school based mental health program because as mental health clinicians, we know the importance of making sure that mental health care is accessible, especially in communities of color, especially in low income communities.

 

00;02;50;29 – 00;03;12;02

Dr. Tasha Brown

And so the program that I work for through the hospital is very committed to, the access to mental health care. So I see children in their school setting, for some days. And then I also work in the hospital setting with a program called Parent Child Interaction Therapy, for children with significant behavioral, disorders or concerns.

 

00;03;12;02 – 00;03;45;06

Dr. Tasha Brown

And their parents is really giving parents the skills to manage their behavior. And then I also have a private practice where I see a similar population, here in New York City. And I’m really passionate about several things. I think a lot of my training was really focused on parent, training and parent management training, which I’m really excited to talk to a group of parents, and really talking about how as parents, you can learn skills to effectively help and manage your child’s behavior and address mood concerns.

 

00;03;45;09 – 00;04;06;22

Dr. Tasha Brown

Because I always tell this to my patients that, you bring your child to a therapist or a psychologist once a week. They do all this amazing stuff with them and they’re like behaviors perfect. Their mood is great. And then you go home with your child and you’re still experiencing a lot of the same concerns and not having the tools to effectively manage it.

 

00;04;06;24 – 00;04;25;22

Dr. Tasha Brown

And so my philosophy is really give parents the skills as much as possible so that they can be the their child’s therapist at home. And that the child is getting what they need from the most important person in their life and the most consistent person in their life. And so a lot of my work is focused around what we call parent training.

 

00;04;25;22 – 00;04;41;24

Dr. Tasha Brown

And then also with children who are exhibiting, behavioral difficulties, listening difficulties, listening, significant temper tantrums that are leading to mood concerns, academic failure, and really giving them the coping strategies to navigate that.

 

00;04;41;26 – 00;05;06;05

Dr. Mona

1. I love. Another reason why I’m loving that we connected is as a pediatrician, I wish I could spend way more time with my patients and give them that sort of mental, you know, the mental health education that you just did. Just today, I had the same conversation about a mother wanting to see a therapist, and I gave her the referral and I said, mom, I need you to understand that the work you do in the home is going to be even more important than what a therapist is going to do for you.

 

00;05;06;05 – 00;05;23;17

Dr. Mona

Right? And you said that beautifully. That you’re giving them the tools, giving families the tools to create, again, that permanent change, not the not the. Okay, let’s just put a Band-Aid over it. You come to see me, it’s the tools. And thank you so much for what you do, because I know it’s not an easy job. And, I know that.

 

00;05;23;17 – 00;05;38;20

Dr. Mona

I know that because I get that in my, you know, obviously, as a as a physician as well, I, I see that and I feel it every day, but especially right now, I’m sure you’re, you know, it’s really hard. I mean, that there’s going on and the community I work with as well is very much affected by this.

 

00;05;38;20 – 00;05;57;11

Dr. Mona

And it’s really hard to see this and obviously be strong and kind of be there with them. And I really, really sincerely appreciate you obviously taking the time out of your day when I know you’re dealing with a lot of stuff at work, too, and personally as well. This is a lot going on for all of us right now.

 

00;05;57;17 – 00;06;33;28

Dr. Tasha Brown

Yeah, definitely. That’s the and I’ve been talking with my colleagues about this throughout the week, what it means to be a mental health provider or, a medical provider in spaces where you’re giving. And then at the same time having to process what’s happening alongside with the people you’re trying to do it with. And so, I think the focus on self-care, doing what you need to do to make sure that you’re taking care of yourself so that when you do give to the people that you’re serving, you’re doing it from a space where your cup is at least half full.

 

00;06;34;24 – 00;06;39;11

Dr. Tasha Brown

But yeah. And at the same time acknowledging that it’s a tough time for for everyone.

 

00;06;39;13 – 00;06;59;01

Dr. Mona

And it’s, it’s so, you know, obviously we had this pandemic, I think people forgot about the Covid pandemic, which rightfully so, we have a major issue happening right now. And then the pandemic happened. And then obviously, we’re we’re now putting this to the forefront in terms of the racial injustices. And, all that’s going on with George Floyd’s murder, obviously, we are going to call it that.

 

00;06;59;01 – 00;07;19;28

Dr. Mona

It was so it’s it’s crazy because I’m, I’m in a way, I’m so grateful to be in this space with you, you know, on social media to share such important things. Right? The the mental health, the physical health, all the things that the pandemic and these issues are bringing to light that this is all really key, you know, all the fluff that people think about.

 

00;07;19;28 – 00;07;38;29

Dr. Mona

And I you know, I’ve watched, you know, social media influencers talking about all these different things. And I’m like, you know, visual kind of superficial things. In a way. The this is the meat of living, right? We need to get into ways to be mentally capable of handling so many things, teaching our children, and obviously staying healthy. And I again, I’m so excited you’re here.

 

00;07;39;02 – 00;07;58;14

Dr. Mona

You know what happened on May 25th and obviously the the days that followed. It’s very, very hard for a lot of parents to see. And it was hard for parents. But obviously, as we know, the children are are even more affected by it. Just because they may have not seen these images before. They may not know the meaning of death.

 

00;07;58;14 – 00;08;04;18

Dr. Mona

A lot of parents have asked me, well, I haven’t even talked to my child about death. And then they somehow saw the video, you know?

 

00;08;04;21 – 00;08;05;12

Dr. Tasha Brown

Yeah.

 

00;08;05;15 – 00;08;22;02

Dr. Mona

Where it’s hard, but where would you say is the starting point in addressing what we may be seeing in the media, you know, in this past week or even in, you know, other situations? Obviously, this is not the first time that we’ve seen something like this. So how would you even begin to address it with the child?

 

00;08;22;05 – 00;08;47;25

Dr. Tasha Brown

Yeah, I think that is a great question because a lot of parents like, where do I even start to have this conversation, especially if there’s multiple children in the home and they’re at different age levels. So the first thing I always say is to keep into consideration your child’s developmental level, because the way you have this conversation with your five year old is very different than the way you’re going to have it with your 13 year old or your 15 year old.

 

00;08;47;27 – 00;09;09;03

Dr. Tasha Brown

And so you want to be mindful of how you’re approaching the conversation based on where your child is developmentally. So the way you explain it to your six year old, is you’re going to you’re not going to be so detailed in kind of the specifically what’s happening, but your 15 is going to want all those details. You’re going to probably know all the details.

 

00;09;09;06 – 00;09;31;27

Dr. Tasha Brown

And so the the conversation I was reading something earlier in it talked about, the ways in which kids interpret the, the news. So kids between the ages of three and five are really, like interpreting the news, like very literally. So they’re seeing something and it’s like, whoa, this is literal. This is happening now. This is ongoing. And they can’t really understand the context.

 

00;09;32;02 – 00;09;52;25

Dr. Tasha Brown

They’re not even thinking about context. And so, you want to keep that into consideration also for kids who are like 6 to 11, they’re viewing the news and hearing things in the media, and now they’re starting to like personalize it. So how is this affecting me? Is this going to happen to my family? Am I safe. And so they’re starting to personalize it a lot more.

 

00;09;52;27 – 00;10;21;06

Dr. Tasha Brown

And then older kids are starting to personalize it. And, it might impact them in more ways because they’re trying to understand like, this is the world I live in and trying to kind of understand their place in all of it. And so really thinking about with the younger kids, I would highly recommend keeping the conversation, between you and your child and between trusted adults and eliminating media exposure.

 

00;10;21;09 – 00;11;03;01

Dr. Tasha Brown

I talked a lot about this, and I’m talking a lot about this throughout the week. Is that the news right now is a scary, very scary, thing for children because it’s hard to understand what’s happening. So limiting news exposure and not having your child watch the news, by themselves. If you’re in the room and you’re watching the news, or you’re talking about it with your spouse or your partner or friend on the phone, being mindful of what you’re saying, unless you are going to be like sitting beside your child interpreting what’s happening, like play by play, being there to answer any question, but really just monitoring their, their their exposure to what’s

 

00;11;03;01 – 00;11;30;02

Dr. Tasha Brown

happening, the likelihood and what’s happening in the news. You don’t want to limit their exposure to what’s happening. You want them to know, but you want to kind of be able to help bring the knowledge to them in a way that they’re going to understand the most. In terms of them knowing Nickelodeon actually has been wearing a commercial that, they have two they have one where it kind of explains in a child friendly like way, what’s going on.

 

00;11;30;09 – 00;11;50;01

Dr. Tasha Brown

Sesame Street is going to be on CNN on Sunday, the waning racism. And so the likelihood that your child knows what’s happening is high. Like they know, and so you want to create a space for discussion and starting the discussion by saying, what do you know about what’s happening? I know you’ve been hearing about, a murder.

 

00;11;50;01 – 00;12;12;03

Dr. Tasha Brown

I know you’ve been hearing about protests. I know that you’ve been seeing this on your social media and starting the conversation and asking them what they know, which will help you kind of direct the conversation based on where they are developmentally, and then asking them if they have any questions, and doing your best to listen to what they’re saying, listening to what their body language is telling you.

 

00;12;12;18 – 00;12;40;21

Dr. Tasha Brown

I can’t tell you how many of my patients I’ve been having this conversation with and more. Their body language tells me more than actually what they’re saying. So being mindful of if they’re getting tearful, if they’re getting really tense, if their volume like decreased is significantly picking up on those things and helping, to validate their emotional response and letting them know that you’re here to listen and answer whatever questions they have, and letting them be in the lead of the conversation.

 

00;12;40;24 – 00;12;57;18

Dr. Mona

I love the way you approach it in terms of asking what they know first, right? Or what? What are they aware of? Because that can vary also right by by age, meaning an eight year old, two eight year old who could be the same developmental level either. Not one of them may be super affected by what they’re seeing.

 

00;12;57;18 – 00;13;20;14

Dr. Mona

And then the other 1st May be like, okay, well, I don’t care. Or I don’t know what this is. Do you, do you think it’s important? Like if a child is not just so you ask an eight year old, let’s use that example. Like, do you have any questions on what you’re seeing? And if they say no, do you think you kind of end that conversation, or do you think it’s an opportunity to open up another kind of avenue to say, okay, well, let’s talk about it.

 

00;13;20;19 – 00;13;22;26

Dr. Mona

If they if they don’t seem bothered by it?

 

00;13;23;08 – 00;13;39;20

Dr. Tasha Brown

I think both I think it’s an opportunity to say, well, this is what happened. A man was it. And I’m giving like an eight year old speech. There was a man who was killed by the police, and many people believe based on kind of how you want to word it with your child, it was because of the color of his skin.

 

00;13;40;09 – 00;14;07;02

Dr. Tasha Brown

And that’s why you’re seeing a lot of people protesting right now. If you’re seeing right now that you don’t want to talk about it, but know that if you have any questions, if you start to feel any thing that you want to talk to me about, I’m more than welcome to, have that conversation with you. So providing a little bit of the context for them and then leaving the space open so that they know that they can ponder that a little bit, and come back to you when needed.

 

00;14;07;05 – 00;14;28;15

Dr. Tasha Brown

Will most likely. What happened after you provide that conflict? They might have a question or they might still just be like, oh, well, that’s really not something that’s registering me, but you’ve left it open as something that they can come back to, and not just come back to when they’re eight. You’ve now started a conversation that can be an ongoing conversation in your home for years to come, right?

 

00;14;28;15 – 00;14;48;01

Dr. Mona

Meaning that they have a safe space with you too, that you started this conversation and now it’s like, okay, anytime anything light comes up, they have you. That’s that’s that’s a very, very, very important point. The one thing you said was, you know, obviously with the visual, if they saw obviously a, a uniformed police officer, of even regardless of the color.

 

00;14;48;01 – 00;15;12;05

Dr. Mona

But obviously there was a obviously white and black, but seeing a uniformed police officer, which we are taught that we should respect police officers, firefighters, doctors, anyone, helpers. Right. So how can we talk to kids about that? Meaning that, hey, we’re seeing a person who we should respect, that did something that was bad, like, how can you approach those conversations?

 

00;15;12;12 – 00;15;40;05

Dr. Tasha Brown

Yeah, that is that’s an important question. And I think a question that people are grappling with across America. Right now. And I think that question differs depending on, your racial background, practically in America. So the way that a black parent is having that conversation with their child is very different than the way a Caucasian parent is having that, that conversation with their child.

 

00;15;40;07 – 00;16;03;16

Dr. Tasha Brown

I think the the messaging, you there are people in this world who care about you and want to keep you safe is a message that all children should be receive. Like it is. I think the right of children should be able to know that there are people here to protect us. And I think that all people should teach that, people in uniform are here to protect us.

 

00;16;03;19 – 00;16;28;03

Dr. Tasha Brown

Black parents have the burden, the history, and history showing that although there are these people who are here to protect us, they don’t always protect us. And they don’t always, they they don’t they don’t always have our best interests in her at heart. And it has gotten to the point where it’s resulted in, in death, depending on the age of their child.

 

00;16;28;06 – 00;16;53;00

Dr. Tasha Brown

And so having a conversation with their child about what to do if they encounter a police officer or someone in authority in a way that they can interact with them, in a way that is going to increase the likelihood that they will remain safe. And I always that’s a hard if people are calling it the talk. That’s a hard conversation to have with your child.

 

00;16;53;02 – 00;17;13;16

Dr. Tasha Brown

And as a clinician, I’ve been so mindful of respecting the fact that different parents are going to decide to teach and and have that talk in different ways. So some parents are literally giving their children a script, like exactly what to say when the police come to you, like put their hands up. My name is so-and-so. I live at X, Y, and Z.

 

00;17;13;16 – 00;17;37;13

Dr. Tasha Brown

Some parents are just saying, make sure you be respectful. Make sure you ask for permission before you do things. And then on the other hand, for non-black parents, I think, the same thing making sure that you are having a conversation with your child about this is someone who is here to theoretically keep you safe. And then based on their age, you can start to introduce that historic lead.

 

00;17;38;06 – 00;18;03;23

Dr. Tasha Brown

They do keep people safe, but there are some populations in some people that, they don’t always keep safe. And what to do if you’re with your black friend or your friend of color and a police officer or someone in authority, challenges them. Like, what are ways that you can use your privilege to help protect others is a conversation that you can start to have as your as your child gets older.

 

00;18;03;25 – 00;18;24;27

Dr. Mona

So I mean, this is again a systemic problem that the fact that we can’t even give the same advice to every parent, it kind of breaks my heart, you know, because usually in pediatric medicine, I can give the same advice to everyone about how to take care of their kids, how to parent their kids. But with racial injustice, I completely agree with you.

 

00;18;25;04 – 00;19;00;15

Dr. Mona

It’s a different conversation depending on the color of your skin, and I, I really appreciate you saying that and I hope everyone listening, whatever skin color you are, especially if you are not, you don’t have melanin in your skin that you understand that especially if you are not black. Because I know that. I hear that I actually, you know, hear it from from friends, from people, obviously, this whole week and even before this week, like I said, this is just bringing into light all the things that black Americans are dealing with on the daily, the conversations with their little boys and little girls and especially I, I feel like it’s a lot with my, my

 

00;19;00;15 – 00;19;26;04

Dr. Mona

patients that have told me a lot of conversations they’re having with their sons more than their daughters, I mean, women, black women also face a whole different slew of prejudices. But the the, the black men, the little boys that are, you know, I’m sitting in my office that are amazing, you know, they’re they’re amazing boys. And I’m like, how is it that we’re these parents are having to have the special conversation, and all these other families don’t even have to think of that.

 

00;19;26;04 – 00;19;44;05

Dr. Mona

That’s not even a conversation that they’re having at the dinner table or whatever they’re having. And that you said exactly. Is is privilege. So it is a really hard conversation. I have an infant son. I don’t even know how I would approach it. You know, people, people have asked me in the office just out of just exhaustion right there.

 

00;19;44;05 – 00;20;01;09

Dr. Mona

Like, what do I do? What do I say? And I tell them, you know, my personal stuff, but I don’t expect them to do what I say. I’m like, look, you need to speak to your heart. I do, I do live a world of kindness where obviously I know this person did something bad. And I say, you know, I know police officers are good.

 

00;20;01;09 – 00;20;22;16

Dr. Mona

Sometimes we have bad people do bad things and not all police officers are like that. He was just he had something bad in his heart. But not everyone is like that. And that’s just my way. That doesn’t mean every parent is going to choose that, that, that those words. Right? It’s just also how my mother, an Indian-American mother, spoke to me about, you know, people who do bad things that are in power.

 

00;20;22;16 – 00;20;37;23

Dr. Mona

Right? And it’s so important that people understand that it is a it is different. And it’s it’s sad that we have to parent that way. Yeah. And that’s my hope that one day this can change. And we don’t have to think about how we’re going to approach a police officer based on the color of our skin.

 

00;20;37;27 – 00;21;03;10

Dr. Tasha Brown

Yeah, yeah. And I think the follow up question that a lot of adolescents are asking, and even before adolescence is then if all police officers are bad, then why is everyone mad at the police? And that’s like a heart. That’s like a hard question to answer because you want to explain that the the police for many right now just represent a system and not only just the police, but the government in history.

 

00;21;03;10 – 00;21;36;23

Dr. Tasha Brown

Like they are just like the symbol and kind of what we have. And so a lot of the anger is directed, towards them. But I think that messaging of, there are people who there are police officers who, and authority figures who, who, who do care about, you know, who do want to keep you safe because just think about kind of the way you a child starts to interact with the world once they have this conversation with their child, or when they have this conversation with the parent the way they are going to interact with authority figures like then changes.

 

00;21;36;26 – 00;21;58;17

Dr. Tasha Brown

And then I see this so often, especially in, some of with some of my patients, is that then the police officer, people of authority become like the target. So then it’s becomes your teachers, like a person of authority and kind of seeing as someone who is like against you. And so there are implications to how children navigate the world.

 

00;21;58;22 – 00;22;24;09

Dr. Tasha Brown

Once this conversation, is had. And so respecting that everyone is going to have this conversation very differently in your household, I, I always tell parents to come across with the message that I am doing everything in my power to keep you safe. I had this conversation. I talked about this on my life, that I had this conversation with a group of parents and this mom was like, oh, but I don’t want to lie to my child.

 

00;22;24;12 – 00;22;45;21

Dr. Tasha Brown

I don’t want to lie to them and say that they’re safe, when in reality they’re not. But the messaging is that as your parent, I’m doing everything to keep you safe. When you come out of this house. Unfortunately, not everyone’s going to have that best interest. But, keep trying to keep you safe and then really help your child identify other people in the community or in your space that also are there to keep them safe.

 

00;22;45;21 – 00;23;02;09

Dr. Tasha Brown

And even you can even talk about protest that way. That’s why these people are protesting, because they are trying to make systematic changes that will keep everyone safe. And I think you can that can be heard across households no matter the color of your skin.

 

00;23;02;11 – 00;23;21;24

Dr. Mona

Yeah. And I mean, what you’re describing is kind of what we have to talk about with school shootings. That same concept. And I mean, I know thank God for Covid because there hasn’t been a school shooting pretty much in the in March for the first for the first time in decades. But it’s it’s the same conversation of like, you know, I am your secure home.

 

00;23;21;24 – 00;23;37;16

Dr. Mona

I am here for you. And it’s not yes, the child won’t understand that. Okay, well, I’m going to go out. Mommy is not obviously going to be there for me when I’m out, but it’s a conceptual thing that I’m doing anything in my power. Obviously mommy’s to be there 24 hours a day, but I agree, kids do take to that.

 

00;23;37;16 – 00;23;59;03

Dr. Mona

They understand the okay, mommy and my teacher or you know, the so-and-so is going to be the ones that help protect me. They don’t need to know the what if. And I think parents, we have the what ifs, right? As adults we think about our kids and we’re like, oh my gosh, what if this happens? I send them here in this, but we can teach our kids that, hey, because it doesn’t it doesn’t serve anything for their anxiety.

 

00;23;59;03 – 00;24;11;15

Dr. Mona

It doesn’t serve anything. But we you know, obviously older kids may have form their own, worries and stuff like that, but I completely agree with that. That is an important concept that takes into, you know, different situations as well. Now, like.

 

00;24;11;17 – 00;24;31;06

Dr. Tasha Brown

Bring up the what? It’s because that’s going to that there what ifs are there developmental level. So you prepare basic information and let them bring up the what if this happened is and then you answer based on where they’re at instead of, kind of guiding the conversation because you might be planting things into their mind that they’re like, oh, that’s a possibility.

 

00;24;31;28 – 00;24;34;24

Dr. Tasha Brown

And so really letting them bring up those what.

 

00;24;34;24 – 00;24;54;14

Dr. Mona

It’s completely agree because yes. And I it’s important for parents to hear that because most of us through Covid and through this, like everyone’s anxiety has been through that roof. And so now as adults, we have we’re thinking about ten, 15 different things. And your child may not be thinking of that. And why are we going to put the what ifs on them if they’re not even thinking about it?

 

00;24;54;14 – 00;25;19;06

Dr. Mona

I completely appreciate you saying that. Now you’ve brought up something else in the iGTV that you did, you know, yesterday or today. About media and, you know, I really I, I as a physician also, I see a lot of stuff in the media, in regards to health issues and whatever, or how do you feel about media and the portrayal of what’s happening with George Floyd and in general, what are your thoughts about media and bias?

 

00;25;19;09 – 00;25;50;10

Dr. Tasha Brown

Yeah, the media’s bias, like, and I think that we have to I think this if we think on a, if let’s, let’s talk about basic level about like cartoons, we start seeing like racial biases in the television and media, coverage when as soon as, the opportunity arises. And so we’re being fed with these biases like all the time.

 

00;25;50;12 – 00;26;11;20

Dr. Tasha Brown

And so I think when we watch the news, we have to really watch with the lens of number one, this is someone’s perspective. But you can change your channels and just see one station is talking about one thing, the next station is talking about another thing. And understanding from the lens of this is someone’s perspective. And so I am getting a biased opinion of what’s happening.

 

00;26;11;22 – 00;26;34;08

Dr. Tasha Brown

And then I have to think about there’s, there’s certain things that sound like there’s certain, if I talk about looting over peaceful protests, my ratings are going to be higher. If I show images of black men looting versus images of people who, don’t look like them coming from out of town and doing the looting, that’s going to change the dynamic of the story.

 

00;26;34;08 – 00;26;56;21

Dr. Tasha Brown

The angry black person is the is the historical message that has been has been bit, been been spread. And so I think viewing the news with like, yes, there is bias and another reason why you want to protect kind of what you’re tired of seeing, because children can’t filter out all that bias. As adults, we have we’re a little bit more savvy so we can understand we understand the historical context.

 

00;26;57;07 – 00;27;36;11

Dr. Tasha Brown

And so we can kind of start to say like, okay, that’s a little bit skewed, or I can tell that this is like a one sided picture, but kids really can’t do that. And so that’s a really big reason why I really suggest monitoring how much your child is, watching these. And it’s also a great time to teach about bias, like using it for your older children, like as an example, and a way of teaching like, hey, I know that you’ve been seeing this from the media, but showing them other news outlets that have a different portrayal and starting the conversation of we all might be experiencing the same thing, but we’re experiencing

 

00;27;36;11 – 00;28;01;10

Dr. Tasha Brown

it in different ways. And when people talk about, what they’re experiencing, they talk about it from their perspective. And that’s called bias. And start the conversation. And you can have that conversation with your six year old, and you can have that conversation with your 16 year old. The only difference is going to be your choice in how you talk about it and your wording, and how long you talk about it for.

 

00;28;02;04 – 00;28;27;06

Dr. Tasha Brown

But acknowledging it, I, I’m very big on being authentic with children because they’re so children are so smart. They’re picking up on they’re picking up on everything, even if we don’t even recognize it. And they’re internalizing it in some way, shape or form. And so being authentic and truthful, in a way that is appropriate for your child’s developmental level.

 

00;28;27;21 – 00;28;43;29

Dr. Mona

I agree, and you talked about, you know, turning it off for the children and also turning it off for the adults, too. I, I, I think it’s important I even again, this is coming on the backs of Covid where everyone was consuming news I think more than they actually used to. Right. Meaning I, I’m not a big news person.

 

00;28;43;29 – 00;29;04;12

Dr. Mona

Normally because of the bias, I, I find a few like BBC news or few like middle ground type news, outlets and I kind of use those kind of outlets before going to, you know, radio, you know, or sorry, news stations that may be a little more on one end because you’re also going to seek out what’s called confirmation bias, right?

 

00;29;04;18 – 00;29;24;12

Dr. Mona

Meaning if you have a belief. So let’s use the example of a someone who is racist, whether they think they are or they don’t know or whatever. And you think, and I’m going to say it because I’ve heard it already, that you think that black lives don’t matter. Okay, so now you are watching the news and you’re seeing them looting, and you’re saying to yourself, oh, look at them.

 

00;29;24;12 – 00;29;59;22

Dr. Mona

They’re part of the problem. They’re bringing this on themselves. This is the problem that I have. This is the problem because you you have a bias. You are coming from a, a very, very, very non unbiased place where you can say, oh yeah, I can see what’s happening. And that’s how you can check yourself. If you’re saying if you’re not understanding what’s happening right now, if you don’t understanding why people are upset, why people are taking to the streets in peaceful protest, right, and not understanding the system issues that are there, you’re going to say, oh, well, you know, maybe it’s you know, they shouldn’t do that and oh, it’s okay.

 

00;29;59;22 – 00;30;31;17

Dr. Mona

Maybe he resisted. Okay. Even if someone resisted, it doesn’t mean that someone deserved their life lost. You know, like in that manner when we the video that came out, by the way. And this is why I love that cell phones are around now because if those if can you imagine that cell phone video can never came out. And there are probably thousands of men and women across this country that are not getting due justice because there wasn’t a cell phone around and it just went to the media or never went to the media as, oh, someone resisted.

 

00;30;31;17 – 00;30;42;17

Dr. Mona

And then they, you know, the doctor or, politician and then the police officer had to, you know, take action. Like, it’s so sad to me. And it’s that’s the problem with the, with media and bias.

 

00;30;42;20 – 00;31;03;13

Dr. Tasha Brown

Yeah. And I think, I always talk to parents about teaching their children perspective taking. Because that’s how you have adults who are able to say, you know, I want this seems a little bit fishy because no one’s taking the perspective of another person, even if it’s just a little bit. One way to kind of to I think as adults, to check ourselves is exactly what you just said.

 

00;31;03;16 – 00;31;24;24

Dr. Tasha Brown

And I agree with everything that I’m seeing right here on the television. If I am, that means that I am consuming something that is confirming all my biases. And also not giving me the ability to kind of take into perspective what other people are experiencing. And you can teach your child perspective taking as early as they are born.

 

00;31;25;09 – 00;31;57;11

Dr. Tasha Brown

And I call it like emotion labeling. So, oh, mommy’s feeling really sad right now, or I’m really happy about this or your brother just did this. Aren’t you proud of him? Like helping them understand that other people are experiencing the world alongside with them? So that they can, and not just people who look like them or people in their community, but other people all over with different backgrounds, with different types of families who come from different places, who live, in different spaces.

 

00;31;57;13 – 00;32;06;00

Dr. Tasha Brown

You want to have them understand that I can take that perspective and know that they have their own experiences.

 

00;32;06;02 – 00;32;21;00

Dr. Mona

Yeah, it is, and it’s so important. And I’m happy we brought this up in this conversation, because I know we’re talking about navigating the, you know, the racial injustices. But obviously it was portrayed on the media. And so I think it’s really important. And this is something that has always eaten me off, like even on even on social media.

 

00;32;21;00 – 00;32;41;06

Dr. Mona

Right? Because social media is also a person running it social media account who has their own biases. So you have to really I have a rule with any media, anything you consume, which is whether it’s on a TV or someone’s Instagram. I need you to sit with it for 48 hours before you react on a public platform, or even just with yourself.

 

00;32;41;13 – 00;33;01;21

Dr. Mona

Why is because I need you to really think about it. I need you to see all the facts that come out, see what else comes out from it before you react. And I do this everything. So I saw the video, I think it came out on, Tuesday or Wednesday, I can’t remember or I don’t it happened on a Monday, I believe, but I saw it two days later and I saw the video and I was like, oh my God, this is awful.

 

00;33;01;25 – 00;33;20;27

Dr. Mona

For two days I sat with it, meaning I sat with it. What I remember that is I was just waiting for everything coming out. I wanted to see. I saw all the media outlets and then finally I was like, what in the world is going on? And it’s. And before I went on my social media platform. Right. And it’s not the it’s because I needed to just sit with my emotions with it.

 

00;33;21;00 – 00;33;38;22

Dr. Mona

I needed to sit with the emotions that were coming out from the media outlets and also everyone flooding social media. Before I can come up with a how am I feeling about this? Right? And I think it’s important that parents do that with themselves because the media, you’re right, is is going to be biased. And we also are consuming it in a biased way.

 

00;33;38;22 – 00;34;06;24

Dr. Mona

So I completely agree with that. Now the next thing I wanted to talk about was kind of moving into this is obviously a loaded, loaded, loaded section in conversation. How can we make meaningful long term changes for racial acceptance equality? Like what is your opinion? What is your feeling? You have a platform here. I want to talk to you too because I am exhausted and I know you are and I just I want to help change the next generation.

 

00;34;06;24 – 00;34;09;03

Dr. Mona

What do you you to do.

 

00;34;09;05 – 00;34;34;13

Dr. Tasha Brown

That is, I think number one, important questions to even ask. So thank you for asking that. And I and I think, number one, making sure that question is continued to, to kind of come up and that question comes up in a wide variety of spaces. And I think my personal, and professional opinion about that, it’s depend on kind of how we’re talking about.

 

00;34;34;13 – 00;34;57;04

Dr. Tasha Brown

So I have like, how are we going to create this long lasting, these changes with children and adolescents, and how are we going to do it as adults when it comes to like, parents and trying to create these changes, with their children so that they can be sustained throughout their lifetime and then through generations. I think that there’s a couple of things that we can start to do.

 

00;34;57;07 – 00;35;22;01

Dr. Tasha Brown

Number one is to teach history, and teach history in a way that is truthful about the experiences of all people in this country. And by doing that, it provides context. It provides the context for why certain things are happening, for why certain people are treated the way they are, why certain people live in certain conditions and other people don’t.

 

00;35;22;01 – 00;35;46;19

Dr. Tasha Brown

It provides a lot of context. And so as early as possible, just starting to teach some history. And there are a lot of resources and, and, and books that you can kind of, use like based on developmental levels and start to introduce some of these things. And not just relying on school to do the history teaching because, you know, if we talked about bias earlier, the educational system is biased.

 

00;35;46;20 – 00;36;08;21

Dr. Tasha Brown

And so you want to have a little bit of more control over the education that your child is getting. Our whole thinking about having, like, diverse images in your home, and when you talk about buying, like, as simple as buying dolls or toys for your child instead of all your child’s doll being black or or them being white, or all of them looking like your child.

 

00;36;08;25 – 00;36;33;25

Dr. Tasha Brown

Diversify your child dolls. When you’re buying books, making sure that they’re different books from different cultural perspectives, making sure that your child is being in the things that you’re helping them to consume. They’re seeing diversity there. And so that when they go out into the world, because the, the, the reality is a lot of us live in communities where the people look like us and are like us in, in some way.

 

00;36;34;02 – 00;37;03;07

Dr. Tasha Brown

And so you introduce that diversity intentionally so that when they’re 16 or when they’re 20, when at college, that’s not the first time that they’re experiencing it. And so introducing diversity in terms of, images, books, toys, what you watch on television as early as possible, thinking about positive black images. And so kids always have like people they look up to or people who they know contributed to special lighting, great ways.

 

00;37;03;09 – 00;37;23;14

Dr. Tasha Brown

And I think if we all sit back and think about it, the people that like, automatically come to our mind very often are people who look like us, but people who have a similar background from us or teaching your child like there are other people who did similar things that are as equally as important that impact our life on that same level.

 

00;37;23;18 – 00;38;04;08

Dr. Tasha Brown

But they look as they look different, and that starts to show your child that everyone is capable of achieving certain things. Then modeling in your speech and behavior when you when you talk about other people who who are different from you, being mindful of the language that you use. And, and the subtle sometimes it’s just the subtle things that you say, like those people or they do it like this, being just mindful of the language that you use to, this some of these things, with your children, and then acknowledging that people are different, acknowledging that people are different.

 

00;38;04;08 – 00;38;31;00

Dr. Tasha Brown

But at the same time, there’s also so many similarities. So we are different. And we are the same because of x, Y, and z and acknowledging that. So you, you’re creating a space where where they understand that, yeah, we’re different. It’s okay that we’re different. And there’s so many different ways that we can connect. Because when you can connect with people, you you care about them on a, on a, on a different level.

 

00;38;31;03 – 00;39;08;15

Dr. Tasha Brown

And so you want to help introduce your child’s like points of connection as much as possible. And then I think just trying to expose your child to different cultures, different, different ways of doing things as much as possible and, and educating yourself, and being active about. So this is a great time, I think in terms of like resources, there’s been so many resources being shared like on like everywhere you turn, so many resources and so like using the opportunity to educate yourself so you can start to have intentional conversations with your children.

 

00;39;08;21 – 00;39;32;21

Dr. Tasha Brown

This is not making systemic changes in terms of race and race relations. And racism is not something that we can passively do, is something that needs to be intentional and it’s something that needs to be active. And so as a parent, you need to take the same intentional and active role. And it might take some coordination. And and it’s going to take effort.

 

00;39;32;23 – 00;39;52;17

Dr. Mona

And it’s ongoing. Like you said it’s not it’s and this week you know obviously I know if you’re you’re on social media, but people stop posting their regular content for the week to give the space to the black American community to express their voice and express what’s going on. And I was, you know, grappling with that. I’m like, well, okay, but I know it needs to be more than a week.

 

00;39;52;17 – 00;40;17;13

Dr. Mona

Like, I get it, like I understand, but I’m like, I need us to have this ongoing conversation. And, you know, I know we’re talking about race. It goes on. I have another episode plan talking about injustices with able bodied versus, you know, people who aren’t able able bodied, LGBT issues. I mean, the list goes on and on about the oppression and inequalities that are in America and the world.

 

00;40;17;13 – 00;40;39;15

Dr. Mona

Right. You brought up two amazing points. One was the educational system. I completely agree with you. Depending on where you go, where you live, what taxes are funding your school, whatever it is, you’re gonna have a very different experience. I grew up in Southern California in a very diverse high school, very diverse elementary school where every month we had a cultural diversity day.

 

00;40;39;17 – 00;41;04;11

Dr. Mona

We we celebrated a different culture. And I’m talking every single culture on this planet. I mean, I learned about everything and it was so important, right? So when even though I didn’t yes, I didn’t have those experiences one on one with those people, which I was, I wanted, but they just weren’t in my community per se. When I got in college and I went to UCLA, which was a melting pot of diversity, I was welcome to that, right?

 

00;41;04;11 – 00;41;22;28

Dr. Mona

Because I got some exposure and a lot of my followers I know, who are listening don’t live in that diverse communities, and we’ll talk about that. But it is extremely important that the parents, if they’re not getting it in the school system, and especially if they think they are, they need to bring that into the home. And I agree, I go simple as the foods we eat.

 

00;41;23;00 – 00;41;41;28

Dr. Mona

Why are we why do we always have to eat the same? Like I eat everything and I, my son is going to eat every single type of food. Just to bring that in. And you said it perfectly about the stuff that we’re consuming in terms of media, and that is why representation matters so much. And I don’t think people understand that, you know, I’m I’m Indian American.

 

00;41;41;28 – 00;41;46;08

Dr. Mona

You are. I don’t know if people even know you’re you’re you’re black and you.

 

00;41;46;08 – 00;41;56;09

Dr. Tasha Brown

And I is, my parents were actually born in Jamaica. And they we live. I was born here. But I identify as, like, a black American.

 

00;41;56;11 – 00;42;23;26

Dr. Mona

And if you and I don’t, I don’t know if my followers know this. My parents were raised in Africa, so my mom was raised in Kenya, and my dad was raised in Tanzania because there was a huge Indian population in Africa in the 1950s. And it you know, it’s it’s a very interesting thing. But race issues have been something that have been a passion of mine for a long time and growing up, I mean, I’m Indian and we never saw people that looked like us on, on mainstream cartoons, you know?

 

00;42;23;26 – 00;42;41;10

Dr. Mona

Yeah. For Halloween, I had to figure out, okay, what’s the brown hair Disney character that I can dress like? I could have been Cinderella because people would laugh at me because I don’t have blond hair, and I can only choose to be Belle or Snow White, and they’re not even brown. Yeah. So, and it’s it’s sad. Right.

 

00;42;41;10 – 00;42;58;27

Dr. Mona

And I actually, as I grew up and start to understood, I actually had a lot of beef with Disney because I’m like, you know what? This is a kid thing. And why aren’t they representing multi-ethnic children? You know, and finally they they’re getting with the program a little more. I mean, they could everyone can do more, but I appreciate them trying.

 

00;42;59;00 – 00;43;14;02

Dr. Mona

But as I grew up and I became older, I was like, wait, like, what is going on here? Like, why? So when when people hear that representation matters and they, you know, in in cartoons, in Academy Award winning movies, it really has a huge impact on children.

 

00;43;14;05 – 00;43;42;28

Dr. Tasha Brown

Yes, a massive impact. There is a famous, dog study. And it’s with, Kenneth Clarke and it’s looking at like, preferences. It’s with, black children, and he introduces like two dolls and he asks them, like, which character is good, which characters? Bad. And black children had started that already at the age of like three and four is starting to say internalize based on like what they have been seeing in the media and the cartoon.

 

00;43;42;29 – 00;44;06;24

Dr. Tasha Brown

They already started to, identify the black doll that looked exactly like them as like the bad one and the white doll as the good one. And so that representation matters so much for people who are not seeing images of people who look like them. Because when you think about, I’m watching this cartoon or I’m watching this show, and these people are doing all these great things and they have access to all these things, but none of them look like me.

 

00;44;06;26 – 00;44;36;02

Dr. Tasha Brown

You’re going to start to internalize that on some level, as that means it’s not funny. And then the way that you interact with the world becomes a little bit different, unless you have people or your context does not, support that. So representation, if you think about why representation is really important is because we know that when you see images of people who look like you in, in, on, in the media, in TV, that you know, that you belong.

 

00;44;36;05 – 00;45;02;22

Dr. Tasha Brown

And, if you think about when everyone children who are seeing everyone who does look like them, so they’re watching cartoons, they’re reading books and everyone looks like them, they’re they are now navigating in a world where they are perceiving, everyone to just be like them and how they speak to, relate, to connect with people who don’t look like them.

 

00;45;02;29 – 00;45;29;09

Dr. Tasha Brown

Now they have to kind of say, okay, I’ve never even seen this person in any of the things this type of person in any of the things that I consumed. And there’s all this catching up that needs to get done. If we were in a space where representation truly mattered, children ideally would have had so much exposure to other types of people, other types of cultures, way before they are meeting others because of the things that they they consume.

 

00;45;29;12 – 00;45;52;19

Dr. Tasha Brown

So when we talk about why it’s important to diversify the media, why it’s important to diversify toys and, cartoons and TV shows and Disney, it’s because psychologically, these that the way that we are prime to interact with the world is, is is really based on those early images.

 

00;45;52;24 – 00;46;10;19

Dr. Mona

Yeah. I, I feel like it’s I mean, it should have come a long time ago and it’s coming slowly. I agree with you. But it’s it’s sad that even to 2020, when there’s a for me, like a cartoon about, an Indian girl, Mira the you know, she it’s on on Disney and whatever. And I’m like, wow.

 

00;46;10;22 – 00;46;30;28

Dr. Mona

Like, this is Mira royal detective. I’m like, oh my gosh. Like, finally there’s like a little Indian girl on on a cartoon. It’s it needs to be more. And like you said, it’s important for the person who is relating to them because of the skin tone or how they look. But it’s also important for people who may not look like that, that cartoon character, to create acceptance and diversity for that person.

 

00;46;31;02 – 00;46;45;22

Dr. Mona

So, like, you know, me looking at or just say a white person looking at a cartoon with a black lead character or, an Asian-American lead character, it’s so important for them to see that because they’re like, oh, I love that character. And she’s just like me, you know?

 

00;46;45;25 – 00;47;06;26

Dr. Tasha Brown

Yeah. And I talk with parents a lot about the especially if you, your child goes to, school or is in a community where everyone is like that, like being the, the advocate for bringing in diversity, that this idea of like diversity training or inclusion, I think it’s become such like the thing like I was like, we don’t receive training.

 

00;47;06;26 – 00;47;31;23

Dr. Tasha Brown

We’re so diverse. But in reality, it’s so important for that, for there to be advocates for diversity in certain spaces. So if you notice at your child’s school that the only time they’re talking about black people is during Black History Month, or you notice that the only time they are talking about native people of America are is during Thanksgiving in the kind of the the worst kind of picks ever.

 

00;47;32;08 – 00;47;50;00

Dr. Tasha Brown

You want to call that out, call it out for what it is as racist, and you want to make sure, that your child is and your child will see that as, like, advocacy. Well, my mom or my dad saw that this was missing in my school, and I actively saw them trying to make a change to make sure that it was included.

 

00;47;50;02 – 00;47;53;13

Dr. Tasha Brown

Even though there was no one like that at my school.

 

00;47;53;15 – 00;48;01;18

Dr. Mona

That’s a great segue to the next question I had, which was, how can we involve our school age kids, in activism and what’s going on right now?

 

00;48;01;21 – 00;48;30;09

Dr. Tasha Brown

Yeah, that is an amazing question. Like there’s different ways to advocate, and there’s different ways to be an ally. I think the, the, the one of the most important things that we can do is to teach kids to speak up, to use their voice when they see something that’s wrong. And so if you’re at school and someone is teasing another person for the way they look or something, they have to speak up.

 

00;48;30;09 – 00;48;53;06

Dr. Tasha Brown

Use your words to to speak up. Especially, if you are in the position where it’s not impacting you because that starts to teach them about privilege. And that there are certain times when you have certain privileges and you might always have that person, other people don’t. And you can, from your space of privilege, use your voice to speak up.

 

00;48;53;21 – 00;49;18;23

Dr. Tasha Brown

For others. I think also you can a lot of people are seeing like protest is the only way to be an ally or the only way to advocate thinking about as as a parent, if you are going to donate to a cause. So say you’re like, I’m going to donate to this, relief fund, or I’m going to donate to this protest, or I’m going to donate to this community to involve your child in that.

 

00;49;18;25 – 00;49;39;05

Dr. Tasha Brown

So we’re going to pick some things to donate to get to together. Like this is what they’re about. This is what they do. And involve your child in the in the process. You can have a conversation with them about how do you want to talk to your friends about this? I know that you’re they’re probably already talking amongst themselves.

 

00;49;39;07 – 00;49;57;11

Dr. Tasha Brown

And so having a conversation with them. But if this comes up with you and your friends, how are you going to enter the conversation? What are some things you’re going to say? Keeping in mind that in this family, we know that everyone has a right to life. We know that everyone, has should have access to the things that other people do.

 

00;49;57;15 – 00;50;21;13

Dr. Tasha Brown

Like what are you going to say if, when this if and when this this comes up. So teaching them to use their voice and helping them to be a part of how you choose to be a part, if you’re in a city where you can go to a peaceful protest, where it’s going to be, something that a child can be exposed to and not be significantly afraid, take them with you.

 

00;50;21;15 – 00;50;41;05

Dr. Tasha Brown

Explain to them what’s happening. Think about different. You can make a sign in front of your house. As easy as, like putting a Black Lives Matter sign and taping it on your door, and letting them know that there are so many different ways that you can enter into a conversation and and start to make changed.

 

00;50;41;08 – 00;51;00;18

Dr. Mona

Yeah. And it starts so early. Right. And I like that you group it because in the under five obviously under four you’re doing play. You know play me like what you’re consuming is very important to incorporate the diversity. And then as they get older you’re still continuing that work with diversity. But then you’re adding on this other layer of activism which is totally age appropriate, like you said.

 

00;51;00;23 – 00;51;18;27

Dr. Mona

And then now let’s talk about like teenagers, because you mentioned in your iGTV about these teenagers or young adults that want to be involved in protests or, you know what? How what would you say to a parent who’s maybe hesitant about their child going to peaceful protests or being involved in this very, very important movement?

 

00;51;19;00 – 00;51;38;09

Dr. Tasha Brown

Yeah, that is it’s coming up this week. So much parents like they they’re asking me to go but I and I’m in New York so this is it’s huge crowds and there’s a lot of other things that go into that. Your child going out into the city. There’s a curfew at 8 p.m.. So having and I think the question differs on what your answer is.

 

00;51;38;13 – 00;51;57;01

Dr. Tasha Brown

So some parents are like, no, they’re not going, if your answer is like, no, your child is not going, I think immediately go into the conversation about other things that they can do to protest. And being explicit about some of the reasons why, I think for older kids, sometimes pressure is like, no, because I said no.

 

00;51;57;26 – 00;52;24;10

Dr. Tasha Brown

But being intentional about explaining why you don’t want them to go and giving them alternatives because we don’t want to silence their activism. You want them to know that it’s I, I commend you for wanting to go out there and advocate and wanting to go out there and, and, and stand for a cause. But there’s so many different things that we have to think about and I don’t feel comfortable with.

 

00;52;24;10 – 00;52;40;29

Dr. Tasha Brown

And you can lift the reasons why that’s going to differ from household, but being clear about that and then shifting conversation and meaning, seeing what can you do instead if you’re going to allow your child to go in? Some parents are like, yeah, I’m going to let them go, but I’m really scared. You can think about different things.

 

00;52;40;29 – 00;53;00;25

Dr. Tasha Brown

I always suggest, like with the media going with your child to these things. There’s some of my teenagers, like, I don’t want to go with my parent. Like, I want to go with my friends. And then I say, maybe your friend, your parents can come, but they can be like ten steps behind you and your friends, and they always have an eye on you, but not like they will interfere unless they becomes a safety concern.

 

00;53;00;27 – 00;53;14;19

Dr. Tasha Brown

And if that is something, go ahead and do that so you can protest. Bring someone along with you so you have a buddy, and let your child or your to your adolescent do their thing. If you’re going to let them go alone, which is the reality, some parents are letting their children go alone. That’s okay also.

 

00;53;14;19 – 00;53;40;13

Dr. Tasha Brown

But then you want to prepare them for what happens if tear gas comes out? What are you going to do if someone, says something to you? What if you’re in a group of people who start doing something that you know is wrong? What if you’re approached by the police? You have to have conversations, especially if you’re thinking about that now we’re bringing race back into it, like how your child likes what area they’re coming from, where they’re protesting.

 

00;53;40;16 – 00;54;04;16

Dr. Tasha Brown

You’re going to have to tailor that conversation to, some of the tools that they’re going to need when they’re out there protesting. And so if someone, if you get detained by the police, don’t talk to anyone unless you call me first, make sure they’re calling me. If your friends are doing something and you’re uncomfortable, meet me at X, Y, and Z spot and I will pick you up from there.

 

00;54;04;19 – 00;54;27;14

Dr. Tasha Brown

Make sure you call me when you get to the protest. Check in with me by text message at X, Y, and Z time. Let me know when you’re leaving. You want to place the safety precautions there, so that they know how to to navigate it when, when they are there. It’s not just the. Yeah. Go ahead. You have to think about safety.

 

00;54;27;14 – 00;54;47;14

Dr. Tasha Brown

You have to also think about when they come back. It’s not just, hey, how was it? It was what did you see? What? Do you have any question? How did you feel when you were there? You want to process how that experience was for them, just like you would process what they’re watching on on the news.

 

00;54;47;16 – 00;55;15;04

Dr. Mona

Such great points. Because that’s the long term educational component, right? That’s the the you went to an experience, you did anything and now you’re back and I want to talk to you about it. And it opens up, like you said earlier on in this conversation, that that comfort and that safe home, right, that I’m going to go explore the world, whatever age I am, and I can come home to the safe space where I can talk to my parent, and they’re going to help me, educate me if I was scared, if I was confused, if I want to pursue other activism.

 

00;55;15;06 – 00;55;28;17

Dr. Mona

You know, I was talking to one of my best friends. We have a group chat going on about this. They’re all in the medical field, and we’re all super diverse, by the way. It’s like really awesome. And we were talking about it, and one of my friends was like, you know, in her church group, everyone is really getting into activism now.

 

00;55;29;02 – 00;55;47;16

Dr. Mona

But basically in the last few months, especially obviously with what’s happening, they want to pursue careers of activism. And I’m like, 2020 is looking like a piece of crap, but it’s bringing, I think, a new generation of activism and a new generation of understanding of what we need to change. So in many ways, maybe we needed this year.

 

00;55;47;18 – 00;56;32;25

Dr. Tasha Brown

Yeah, yeah. And I think the where’s the learning opportunity. Yeah. 2020. Every minute we’re like, wait, what was happening? But there’s so many learning opportunities in this. Let’s let’s take these opportunities to teach and not just teach about how to deal with the moment, but how to make long lasting change and I think with a lot of the stuff I was talking about this a lot with Covid, about like if there is, like another wave, and the things I think conversation can be applied to, like if and when the reality is like when there’s another incident of racial police brutality, what are the skills and tools that we can use that we are

 

00;56;32;25 – 00;56;52;14

Dr. Tasha Brown

learning now and just implement them right away so that we’re not having a conversation about how to have, how to talk about race with our children. It’s I already know how to talk about race with my children. Let’s continue that conversation and continue to move in, in, into making, like, systemic changes. And so we’re not just learning now.

 

00;56;52;14 – 00;57;03;23

Dr. Tasha Brown

We are giving ourselves like, all the tools and skills that we need to make this something ongoing and a way that we’re going to approach other, situations.

 

00;57;03;25 – 00;57;20;20

Dr. Mona

Oh, this is so great. And, you know, I have a few more questions. And then I also want to do some questions that some of my followers asked. And the big question, another loaded one is, you know, we’re talking all about this. People like, well, okay, so some people just don’t get it that this is a huge deal and it’s a public health issue.

 

00;57;20;20 – 00;57;41;15

Dr. Mona

Racism is a public health issues, which is why you’re hearing all the doctors get on and talk about it on social media. And so it is, 100% in so many ways, not even just health issue. It is vital for children to not feel racism. And can you speak to what the long term emotional, I mean, not even just emotional, but the long term impacts of racism?

 

00;57;41;15 – 00;57;47;11

Dr. Mona

What what would be some things that parents should consider when they’re like, well, does this really matter? Because it does.

 

00;57;47;13 – 00;58;24;14

Dr. Tasha Brown

Yeah. We know that, being subject number one of being subjected to generations of racism, and we think about that as like collective trauma, it’s traumatic. And I think calling it what it is, it’s not just an experience or just like something a day to day. It’s a, it’s trauma. And we know that people who experience trauma, especially ongoing trauma, have a wide variety of, negative mental health, outcomes, increased anxiety, increased depression, PTSD.

 

00;58;24;18 – 00;59;09;14

Dr. Tasha Brown

We know PTSD comes with hypersensitivity, paranoia, the sleep disturbances, eating disturbances, mood concerns, interpersonal difficulties. But I could go on and on and on and on. But it is, traumatic. And I think that, the event that we’re experiencing now with George Floyd’s death and a lot of other, Breonna Taylor, there’s so many other black lives that have been lost, but the, the idea that this is eventually going to pass and there’s going to be something else in the news, the the historical trauma of racism for a group of people is not going to end for.

 

00;59;09;14 – 00;59;30;28

Dr. Tasha Brown

So for some people, once the news about this finishes, they’re not going to have to unless they choose to. Like this doesn’t even need to be a conversation. But for other people, they’re still going to go to schools that are under resourced, they’re still going to have microaggressions, when they go to school or their workplaces, they’re still going to not see representation in the media.

 

00;59;31;04 – 01;00;01;06

Dr. Tasha Brown

And so it’s ongoing trauma. And if we think about not having any respite from that, and we know what the psychological impacts of that are, just compounded over time, what that means for a group of people who are now adults, who are starting to, to, to create healthy families who want to, be navigate their relationships with their coworkers, who want to feel like they, matter and basis I having adult client.

 

01;00;01;06 – 01;00;29;15

Dr. Tasha Brown

I also see early adults. And today we talked a lot about imposter syndrome and the, the idea of being in a space and not feeling like you belong there or you just kind of happenstance there. Like, that’s also, a mental impact of of racial trauma over time. And so, just like the medical, implications, we know just the ability to fight a disease.

 

01;00;29;17 – 01;01;00;02

Dr. Tasha Brown

You’re you’re exposed, just like there’s a plethora of medical, outcomes. The same thing for psychological, and when there are groups of people who interact with the world in that way, and there’s no one advocating for them on the outside, or there’s no one recognizing that, or there’s no one fighting for it. It it compounds it and it and it just makes it hard to to heal.

 

01;01;00;04 – 01;01;22;17

Dr. Mona

It’s it’s just ongoing grief and it’s like, and, you know, with what’s going on with the Black Lives movement and it’s obviously been going on, like you said, for generations. And I’m, I my worry and I hope and I, I’m a very hopeful person that it does not end here. Right. And I and I worry about that. I agree with you so much that you said this earlier that this is an ongoing work.

 

01;01;22;17 – 01;01;41;28

Dr. Mona

This is what we need to do to make serious change, changing how we view the world as adults, changing how we talk to our children and really getting out there and causing systemic changes with how we fund police, how we equip them, why do they need to be equipped with so much, you know, like meaning so much manpower where they can form brutality, right?

 

01;01;42;03 – 01;02;00;26

Dr. Mona

It’s a whole conversation. And some people are uncomfortable with these conversations, especially when you go to a systematic, you know, changing how we may have to live our lives in our, you know, as a system. And it’s important, though, because of what you said, that why? And there was an amazing video that went around, which I cannot remember the lady’s name right now.

 

01;02;00;26 – 01;02;16;22

Dr. Mona

And I apologize to everyone listening, but it was a white woman, older white woman, and she asked a group of white people in the room, I don’t know if you saw that. She’s like, stand up. If you would like to switch places with a black American. She basically said, if you would like their life, why don’t you stand up right now?

 

01;02;16;27 – 01;02;39;01

Dr. Mona

No one stood up and she’s like, this is the answer. You’re not standing up because you know that there is oppression and that is it. Like that. Is it like, I don’t I don’t understand, like I’m grateful that most of my followers are getting it. They understand. I’m grateful for this community. But I I’m seeing that people just are not understanding the importance of this movement.

 

01;02;39;01 – 01;02;49;22

Dr. Mona

Now, five years ago, seven years ago, when all these cases have come out and all the millions of cases are probably not making it to the media. Yeah, you know.

 

01;02;49;24 – 01;03;14;15

Dr. Tasha Brown

Yeah. And when people ask like, why this level of protest, why this level of anger? It’s exactly what you just said. Because this has been happening for generations and generations and generations. And so people have tried kneeling at football games and got a lot of pushback. People have tried peacefully protesting. People have tried, making sure that they’re writing letters to their congressmen, which they’ve tried everything.

 

01;03;14;15 – 01;03;41;12

Dr. Tasha Brown

And so now, but we need to get attention. And so that’s another great way to kind of explain it to your adolescents. I think that’s for adolescent type of conversation. But you’re seeing frustration and anger and sadness and people just, I think, already being at their wit’s end. But now understanding that. There’s only so much I can do.

 

01;03;41;24 – 01;03;47;15

Dr. Tasha Brown

And so I want to make sure that my voice is heard in the loudest way possible.

 

01;03;47;17 – 01;04;05;25

Dr. Mona

And I for time purposes, I there was a few questions actually. We talked a lot of the questions I got, we actually already answered. But the one question I wanted to close off with before we wrap up is how can someone this is asked on my on my Instagram, how can someone approach family members saying racist things about myself?

 

01;04;05;25 – 01;04;22;22

Dr. Mona

You know, about mother or father or their child, like in the family, right? Because we get it, that social media, maybe you can block it out, but you have a family member who is saying racial. Either it’s a microaggression or it’s a full out racial comment. How can you approach that? Or how would you recommend a family approaching that?

 

01;04;22;25 – 01;04;45;23

Dr. Tasha Brown

That is so common. And I think it’s I think people are talking about it so much in the last week that I was literally just watching, I think on TikTok, you know, all the adolescents are all about the exact, that there was a young woman on TikTok as a teenager, like hysterically crying because she’s like my family, I need to move out of this house because my family are there.

 

01;04;45;26 – 01;05;10;15

Dr. Tasha Brown

They’re being there saying all these racist things. And and I’m getting all these, like, microaggressions. I think there’s a few we can talk about that in two ways. Like we’re the recipient of that. And also if you’re observing that, if you are observing your family members, making racist comments, especially if your child is around any time calling it out, that was that wasn’t really a nice thing to say.

 

01;05;10;15 – 01;05;35;17

Dr. Tasha Brown

That was racist. These are the reasons why, and making it a point to not just let it happen. In order to combat racism, a lot of people need to be called out. And so calling it out and setting boundaries around it, especially boundaries with especially as it pertains to your child. So if you’re going to speak that way, then I won’t be able to have my child around you during these times.

 

01;05;35;23 – 01;05;59;22

Dr. Tasha Brown

If you’re going to speak that way, then we’re going to need to leave. If you’re going to watch this while I’m here, then I’m going to have to be in another room until the conversation changes. Call it out and say boundaries. If you are experiencing microaggressions or blatant racism from your family, I think you can. Number one, you want to make sure that you’re protecting your physical safety and you’re protecting your emotional safety.

 

01;05;59;24 – 01;06;22;01

Dr. Tasha Brown

And sometimes that means creating boundaries that are tough within the context of families. When you talk about like separating yourself and distancing yourself. But sometimes you might need to say, when you say this, it makes me really uncomfortable because you’re talking about the color of my skin, or you’re talking about the way that I interact with the world, and it hurts my feelings.

 

01;06;22;01 – 01;06;51;18

Dr. Tasha Brown

And if you continue to do that, then I am going to need to not be around you. If you don’t feel comfortable doing that. Identifying a family member or someone in the space who could potentially have that conversation for you. So if you know that my grandma talks like this, but my aunt doesn’t, and they have a good relationship talking to your aunt, hey, when I’m around grandma and she says these things or these things come up, it makes me really uncomfortable and it makes me not feel safe in this space because it’s really not safe.

 

01;06;51;21 – 01;07;17;22

Dr. Tasha Brown

It’s not emotionally safe. Can you please talk to her about it? And because if it continues, then I’m going to need to take these actions to protect myself and really framing the the boundaries that you’re setting as I’m setting these boundaries up for myself and for my child or for my family as a means not because we don’t love you, not because we don’t want to spend time with you, but because we need to protect ourselves.

 

01;07;18;29 – 01;07;40;17

Dr. Tasha Brown

And and framing that the conversation that way and, and finding support in because it’s hard to be estranged from your family. So finding support from people who can kind of help navigate what it means to, to to distance yourself from your family for racial or for racial reasons.

 

01;07;40;19 – 01;07;57;01

Dr. Mona

And. Yeah, I mean, a lot of this is, you know, I hear and I hear it in the South Asian community to the these small microaggressions that build up and build up. And, you know, it’s it’s it is important to put put the boundaries there. And not even if, even if it’s not directed immediately or personally to you.

 

01;07;57;01 – 01;08;14;28

Dr. Mona

Right. Like we talked obviously this mother asked if like they’re saying personally or to their child, but if it’s just like you said about a race in general that maybe not be in the room like it’s really important because I commonly what I hear is, oh, they were just joking. I’m like, you said it. So it’s obviously not a joke and it’s not funny.

 

01;08;14;28 – 01;08;29;20

Dr. Mona

Like it’s really not funny to talk about people that way because we wouldn’t want to be talked about that way. And I agree with you like I am. So I call I call out a lot of people like in my personal life too. I’m like, that was a nice. And they’re like, Mona, you need to lighten up. I’m like, no, but it wasn’t nice.

 

01;08;29;20 – 01;08;53;16

Dr. Mona

Like, why are we? Why are we making fun of people at their misery or at their, you know, just because of who they are? And it’s not funny. Like, and I totally have a sense of humor, but there’s a place for it, you know? So I really appreciate that because it is hard to navigate that. I, we could talk for like 2 or 3 hours, but I know, you know, maybe I’ll have to have you back on again and we can talk about all the other, you know, obviously amazing things you do.

 

01;08;53;18 – 01;09;02;13

Dr. Mona

What is you know, you’re final message you have. And honestly, before I ask that, I really want to ask you, like, how are you doing this past week?

 

01;09;02;15 – 01;09;28;09

Dr. Tasha Brown

Thanks for asking that. I think this week has been it’s been hard. Today we had a work meeting and we were going around and they were like, how is everyone feeling? And when they got to me, I was like, I’m just feeling really unproductive and I’m feeling like out of it and drained. I think that because personally,

 

01;09;28;11 – 01;09;52;15

Dr. Tasha Brown

The I, I’m, I’m part of the community that’s being most impacted by this right now. And so I’m seeing an image of a black man being murdered repeatedly on television that black man looks like the man in my life that I love the most. And in my mind, like, automatically goes there, kind of navigating how to channel what I think I was experiencing a lot of anger.

 

01;09;52;26 – 01;10;23;19

Dr. Tasha Brown

And I also share today that, like, anger is not like, it’s I would like out of character for me, like, it’s that I think a lot to get me there. And so when I experience, like, anger, I’m like, whoa, where did that come from? And I was experiencing a lot of that. And so having to, like, sit with myself like a bowl, like you’re really angry and like, processing, like where that has come from and kind of what I’m going to do about that and deciding, like when I’m going to, in what conversations I’m going to engage with, if I’m going to go to a protest or not, like, how am I

 

01;10;23;19 – 01;10;46;23

Dr. Tasha Brown

going to be an advocate? I think has been draining for me in the last week. And then on top of that, I know that I do work where I can’t just act like this is not happening. I know that I do work and have a platform where I have to bring this up and kind of doing that from a space of, fatigue on my end, has been a lot.

 

01;10;46;23 – 01;11;04;15

Dr. Tasha Brown

I think I’ve been been very intentional about taking care of myself, even if it is in the small ways throughout the day. So, like, make sure I get my workout in this morning. I went for, like a walk. It was a 20 minute walk, but it was a walk. So yeah, I think that’s kind of where I am.

 

01;11;04;15 – 01;11;27;21

Dr. Tasha Brown

And in my teens, like when I’m off this call in my teens in the morning because I think as for black professionals, I think there’s the so there’s the layer of how you’re dealing with personally. There’s the layer of if you work with the population or if you have a platform where you feel the need to address it, and then there’s the layer of processing this because everyone’s trying to process this.

 

01;11;27;23 – 01;11;59;12

Dr. Tasha Brown

There’s a layer of processing in in space, in your workspace, where like there’s this balance of like I want to keep it professional. Like, these are my colleagues. These are also people who are not experiencing this in the same way as me. And that burden of like being the represent like represent like representative. I think for me, I’ve been very intentional about like, I don’t need to join every single process conversation about this like in a professional space, because that’s draining for me.

 

01;11;59;15 – 01;12;23;01

Dr. Tasha Brown

It’s draining for me to sometimes even like, listen to other people process, from, from like their privileged stance and allowing myself to say, like, you know, I’m going to just not join this meeting right now or I’m going to excuse myself or I’m just going to listen, has been has been helpful. So I think my emotions have been all over the place and it’s not the first time.

 

01;12;23;01 – 01;12;46;26

Dr. Tasha Brown

And so and that’s another thing like, it’s not the first time that I’ve had, and I think black professionals back, black psychologists, social workers in the mental health, that’s not the first time that we’ve had to to do this. It’s just like, okay, again, and yeah, it’s I think there’s been so many times during the week where my eyes have, like welled up with, tell me that, like, get it together.

 

01;12;47;25 – 01;13;09;20

Dr. Tasha Brown

Because of, like, things that my patients have said, things that their parents have said, just thinking about why I do the work that I do. I was saying this earlier that it’s not just the it’s not just you, you have ADHD or you are depressed and I need to give you these coping strategies so you can, like, get along better with your family and friends.

 

01;13;09;22 – 01;13;46;11

Dr. Tasha Brown

If you are a black teenage boy and you’re going to be a black man, and I need to give you some skills so that these symptoms won’t get you in trouble one day, or that or these to not even get you will get you murdered. That you’re you can control your impulsivity. That you know how. Yeah. I’ve just been all over the place I’ve been having in York City, and I think all around, like, especially in urban areas, a lot of times when children are having, like, a lot of behavioral difficulties, the school calls, the ambulance.

 

01;13;46;11 – 01;14;09;24

Dr. Tasha Brown

And when you call the ambulance, you know who the first people who come are. The police. I didn’t see, like, flashbacks of when my patients get the police. I call it getting the police called on them and like what that means. And now they’re seeing these images. So it’s been a rough week. I think it’s been a rough week in terms of just trying to remember that I still have, like work to do.

 

01;14;09;26 – 01;14;21;24

Dr. Tasha Brown

And then at the same time, still remembering that it’s equally important for me to process this on a personal, personal level. If I’ve been telling you to just take care of yourself.

 

01;14;21;27 – 01;14;43;06

Dr. Mona

Well, I, I sincerely appreciate you. I appreciate you for so many reasons. One, like you put into into kind of those groups that you are personally going through this and while you are personally going through it, you are still using your platform, your, you know, obviously your Instagram, you’re still using your platform as a psych clinical psychologist and you’re still being a helper when you are exhausted, too.

 

01;14;43;09 – 01;15;01;27

Dr. Mona

That is the ultimate empathy and the ultimate sacrifice that you are making. And that is why I’m really grateful that you were able to come on today, because I know this was short notice. I know you’re exhausted. And I kept asking you. I’m like, are you sure you want to talk about this? Because because I know, I know the emotional impact any of our jobs make.

 

01;15;01;27 – 01;15;20;02

Dr. Mona

But I also know the extra extreme extra layer that’s being added on because you’re personally dealing with this, right? Yeah. And so I sincerely appreciate you taking the time after your very long day, you know, to talk to me so that I can, I can, we can educate, you know, the listeners. What would be your final message to everyone listening?

 

01;15;21;00 – 01;15;50;16

Dr. Tasha Brown

My final message. I think it’s twofold. I think my final message is when it comes to your children, your adolescents, the young adults, whether you are a parent, a teacher, a therapist, a nurse, a doctor, a, uncle, a grandmother who, if you have contact with a young person, make sure that you are starting conversations about race, about racism, about differences, about systematic racism as early as possible.

 

01;15;50;22 – 01;16;29;12

Dr. Tasha Brown

And make sure you’re doing it in a way that’s ongoing. Like it’s not just a one time conversation. It’s an ongoing conversation. And then in your adult life, outside of interacting with children, thinking about the spaces that you frequent, and the power that you have in certain spaces in terms of, hiring, in terms of funding for certain things, in terms of how you use any platform you have, in terms of how you talk with your church group, your your social organization, how you show up in certain spaces and how you bring these conversations to those spaces.

 

01;16;29;12 – 01;16;57;04

Dr. Tasha Brown

My message is, is bring those conversations. Make sure you’re having the difficult conversations about why it’s important to, diversify your student. You’re the a group of students that you’re taking in. Why the importance of ones for an organization and why it’s important to, show certain movies at a movie night versus others. Your book club. Why should we introduce this book into our book club versus another book like bring these conversations into all, parts of your life?

 

01;16;57;04 – 01;17;23;02

Dr. Tasha Brown

Because that is how we make change. And for those and recognizing your privilege that when you have I think we talk about white privilege, when we talk about white privilege, you talk about socio economic privilege. There are certain privileges, educational privilege, there are certain privileges that will allow you to bring this conversation into spaces. And so use that privilege lightly.

 

01;17;23;04 – 01;17;44;13

Dr. Mona

Doctor Brown, I am so glad I met you. I it’s like fate that brought us together. It was such a great conversation and I we could have talked for a lot longer, but then I really want to just give this kind of bread and butter that again. People really, really, I think will really understand and resonate with this because the words you say and your passion behind it, it’s just so meaningful.

 

01;17;44;13 – 01;17;54;11

Dr. Mona

I oh, I wish we could talk forever. And I know we’re going to continue this conversation in many, you know, in the future. Thank you so much for being here today.

 

01;17;54;14 – 01;17;57;03

Dr. Tasha Brown

Thank you for having me. And thank you for having me.

 

01;17;57;06 – 01;18;18;23

Dr. Mona

Thank you for tuning in for this very important bonus episode. I felt like I really wanted to do this just because we need to continue this conversation past this week, past this day, past this year. This needs to be ongoing work that we do as adults, ongoing work we do with our children, and ongoing work we do in our communities to truly impact change for the long run.

 

01;18;18;26 – 01;18;42;20

Dr. Mona

I appreciate you listening to this episode. If you found it helpful, please share it on social media. Write a review. I cannot wait to talk more about this in the coming months. I have another episode planned, with an author of a book, talking about sensitive quote unquote issues with children, including racism, including other prejudices. So I really, really hope this resonated.

 

01;18;42;20 – 01;18;49;23

Dr. Mona

I hope this helped you. And thank you again, Doctor Brown, for being here. Love you guys. Talk to you soon. Continue doing the work.