Car seat safety is one of those topics that feels overwhelming…so many straps, rules, and confusing instructions and yet it’s one of the most important things we do as parents.

In this episode, I sit down with my longtime friend and child passenger safety technician, Michelle Pratt from Safe in the Seat, to talk about the most common car seat mistakes parents make and how to fix them. We both share our own missteps (yes, even as a pediatrician and as a safety expert!) and the lessons that changed how we buckle our kids in.

We cover:

• Why “winging it” with installation is risky, and how to practice before you leave the hospital

• Chest clip placement, shoulder strap positioning, and the “one-inch rule” every parent should know

• Rear-facing myths, what age to turn forward, and why “rear until 2” isn’t the full story

• The truth about aftermarket products (like those head straps) and why they can be dangerousHow to empower kids to notice and speak up about their own car seat safety

To connect with Michelle Pratt check out all her resources at ⁠https://www.safeintheseat.com/⁠.  Follow her on Instagram at ⁠@safeintheseat⁠. 

Car Seat Finder Tool: ⁠https://www.safeintheseat.com/find-your-best-car-seat⁠

Safe to Switch: ⁠https://courses.safeintheseat.com/offers/uufJeUvJ/checkout⁠

We’d like to know who is listening! Please fill out our ⁠Listener Survey⁠ to help us improve the show and learn about you!

00:00 – Why Car Seat Safety Feels Overwhelming
01:00 – Dr. Mona Introduces Michelle Pratt and Their Connection
04:40 – Car Lines, Backpacks, and Real-Life Safety Struggles
08:20 – Michelle’s Origin Story and Why She Started Safe in the Seat
12:00 – The Hospital Discharge Mistake Almost Every Parent Makes
17:45 – Chest Clip Placement Explained
23:00 – Teaching Kids to Be Their Own Safety Advocates
26:00 – Survivor Bias and Distracted Driving Today
27:00 – The One-Inch Rules Parents Don’t Know
33:20 – Shoulder Strap Placement: Rear vs Forward Facing
37:00 – Why Reading the Manual Actually Matters
41:15 – Rear-Facing Until Four: The Physics and Development Behind It
46:30 – Real-Life Exceptions: Motion Sickness, Car Fit, and Caregiver Needs
59:00 – Resources from Safe in the Seat
1:00:15 – Final Thoughts and How to Share This Episode

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00;00;00;07 – 00;00;20;03

Michelle Pratt

I just got this sense that, wait a minute. Other people feel this way too. This is not something that I’m alone experiencing, where it’s like I messed up. I didn’t know how to put him in the seat. I had to have someone correct me. And then the shame and the judgment and that, oh my gosh, I’m failing as a mom already.

 

00;00;20;03 – 00;00;42;28

Michelle Pratt

Like, I just got goosebumps saying that because that’s why we exist. That’s what keeps me going. There is absolutely no reason for anyone to not be empowered to keep their kids safe. We have the information. We know exactly what to do. It’s not hard to do it. Once you know what you’re doing.

 

00;00;43;01 – 00;01;04;25

Dr. Mona

Welcome to the PedsDocTalk podcast. It’s me, Doctor Mona, your online pediatrician and mom friend, and I am grateful for this show, not only because you all love it. I love recording these episodes, the solo episodes, the episodes of guest, but I love reconnecting with old friends. Today’s guest is one of those people. She is Michelle Pratt, the force behind safe in the seat.

 

00;01;04;27 – 00;01;23;22

Dr. Mona

But we started our account around the same time on Instagram, and one of my first segments that I did was when I was pregnant with Ryaan. I went over to her house in Tampa and she helped me with car seat education, and we posted those videos on Instagram when Instagram had something called IG TV. So it’s awesome to welcome her back.

 

00;01;23;25 – 00;01;40;28

Dr. Mona

As we’ve grown, our community has grown, our account’s grown, our businesses. Michelle is a mom of two who, just like me, learned the hard way that car seats aren’t as straightforward as they look, and you are not going to believe what Michelle says is the most common mistake parents make. Here’s the thing it’s the exact same mistake she made as a new mom.

 

00;01;41;04 – 00;01;58;17

Dr. Mona

And honestly, I did it too. Even as a pediatrician. Because car seats are complicated. They don’t come with flashing lights that tell you what’s wrong. You think you’ve got it right until someone points out that you don’t. That’s why I wanted her on the show. Car seat safety isn’t about being a perfect parent. It’s about knowing the small changes that can save lives.

 

00;01;58;19 – 00;02;27;10

Dr. Mona

In this episode, we’re talking about the mistakes almost every family makes, the myths we need to let go of, and the fixes that will help you feel confident every time you buckle your child in. And we even talk about her favorite think car line before we get into it. Quick reminder subscribing and downloading this episode helps the podcast more than anything else, and when you share it on your Instagram Stories or any social media account, tag at the PedsDocTalk podcast and at safe in the seat, we’ll be resharing some more parents can get this information.

 

00;02;27;14 – 00;02;33;14

Dr. Mona

Let’s get into it.

 

00;02;33;16 – 00;02;36;16

Dr. Mona

Thank you for finally joining me, Michelle.

 

00;02;36;19 – 00;02;43;09

Michelle Pratt

I know it has been it is been a long time coming. Do you remember when you came to my house?

 

00;02;43;10 – 00;02;51;08

Dr. Mona

I do remember, so like 2019, we both started our platforms at the same time, right? What month did you start? Oh.

 

00;02;51;10 – 00;02;53;15

Michelle Pratt

19th September maybe.

 

00;02;53;17 – 00;03;16;04

Dr. Mona

Okay. September. So fun. So we actually connected through being online, right. So I live in Fort Lauderdale. She lives on the west side of, Florida, and I was a new mom, meaning first time being pregnant. I had I was pregnant with Ryan in 2019. And full transparency. As we all know, pediatricians are not car seat experts. And should we know the basic rules?

 

00;03;16;05 – 00;03;38;09

Dr. Mona

Yes. But in terms of installation, in terms of the nitty gritty, you need a car child passenger safety technician, someone like Michelle. So we did a whole thing on our Instagram, like when Instagram long form video was like more of the thing and people didn’t really have podcasts as much. And she helped me. We chatted about installation, we chatted about all these rules that we’re kind of going to talk about today.

 

00;03;38;12 – 00;03;45;24

Dr. Mona

I learned so much from you, and we just connected over social media and how to grow on this beast of a platform. Instagram.

 

00;03;45;27 – 00;04;02;04

Michelle Pratt

It’s been fun to like, watch both of our journeys in it from that very first original. I saw those pictures actually not long ago when I was scrolling through the 60,000 or whatever I have on my phone of when you’re at the house. That was really fun. That was a good, good bonding experience for both of us.

 

00;04;02;04 – 00;04;02;20

Michelle Pratt

And now we.

 

00;04;02;26 – 00;04;03;09

Dr. Mona

Just become.

 

00;04;03;09 – 00;04;06;22

Michelle Pratt

Friends. And figuring it out together is nice.

 

00;04;06;22 – 00;04;23;10

Dr. Mona

And, you know, like that time, I mean, I, I went back and I deleted a lot of old videos that were in good quality, meaning, you know, obviously in the last six years, Instagram has changed. As my platform has grown, I repurpose content, I delete it, but I kept those because I was like, you know what? This is a new show and it was so awesome.

 

00;04;23;10 – 00;04;43;06

Dr. Mona

And people still go down in my like, you know, obviously scroll all the way down. And now obviously we have things like this, we have your resources that are even more elevated than when we just shot it on, like a camera in your house. And really, I mean, people, this is a long time friendship. And this episode literally has been like rescheduled eight, nine times.

 

00;04;43;09 – 00;05;03;20

Dr. Mona

And I’m just glad we can finally do it because I virtual past Safety Week, it was really important that I had you like it had to be you. That comes on to talk about thank you, thank you, thank you. Happy to be here. Well, you know, it’s, back to school time that we’re recording this. And my first question for you is, tell me how you really feel about car lines.

 

00;05;03;23 – 00;05;11;28

Dr. Mona

I’m just. I mean, I think about you every time I think about you. Every time when I see a kid hanging out the back of, like, the window. And I know you even.

 

00;05;12;04 – 00;05;22;09

Michelle Pratt

Yeah, it. Listen, I’m a mom, right? So mom of two been through. My oldest is 12, my youngest is nine, which I can’t even believe. Like saying that out loud is so hard.

 

00;05;22;09 – 00;05;22;28

Dr. Mona

I know for.

 

00;05;22;28 – 00;05;44;10

Michelle Pratt

Them, but Coraline is like the bane of my existence, both from a child passenger safety perspective, but also from a mom perspective, which I know many can relate because we’re it’s the hustle right? You got to get moving. You don’t want to be the one holding up the line. And so I get the urge to kind of unbuckle earlier to get them, you know, ready and their backpacks on.

 

00;05;44;10 – 00;06;08;04

Michelle Pratt

And they can just fly out the door. I get it from a mom perspective, from a safety perspective, it’s it is tough to watch because even in very like slow miles per hour, there can still be, you know, injury airbags can still deploy even if you’re going at a very, slow speed. So I get it. I know it’s hard.

 

00;06;08;04 – 00;06;09;13

Michelle Pratt

I feel the pain.

 

00;06;09;20 – 00;06;10;01

Dr. Mona

Yeah.

 

00;06;10;01 – 00;06;24;01

Michelle Pratt

And we still need to do what’s safest for our kids. And so, please, not letting them hang out the windows or unbuckle prematurely or, you know, ride with their backpacks on their backs with their seatbelts over them or any of that stuff.

 

00;06;24;04 – 00;06;25;05

Dr. Mona

 

00;06;25;07 – 00;06;27;28

Michelle Pratt

It’s tempting, but yeah, it’s definitely not safe.

 

00;06;28;03 – 00;06;50;23

Dr. Mona

You know, every time you had posted about it, you’re like, I don’t, you know, I’m not judging here. I just want safety. And I think that’s such a hard it’s a hard thing to do with an account that is about safety. You know, anyone who’s educating about safety, whether it’s car seats, sleep, whatever it is, there is this amazing balance that has to be created of I need to share the information, but I’m not going to be judgmental.

 

00;06;50;23 – 00;07;08;04

Dr. Mona

And to be honest, the reason I still follow you after all these years is that you have strike that amazing balance of like, hey, I get it. Like you just said, like I get it where this is coming from, but I just want to I want you to listen to the the risks that can happen and then understand that let’s make the choice that makes the most sense.

 

00;07;08;04 – 00;07;24;10

Dr. Mona

And hopefully it’s, you know, stay in that car seat. Because, yeah, I mean, I’ve seen the, the body half outside the window. And then the sudden breaks can happen, right? I mean, we see that like, just it’s chaos, like cars coming from every, every different direction that you like. You never know, is it.

 

00;07;24;10 – 00;07;25;27

Michelle Pratt

Yeah. And then pedestrians.

 

00;07;25;28 – 00;07;26;07

Dr. Mona

Yeah.

 

00;07;26;07 – 00;07;43;08

Michelle Pratt

People are walking or what if a kid goes the wrong direction. And so as a driver, you have to be super alert, which can be hard to do in those situations because your kids are also, you know, going crazy trying to get ready to get out or get in. Yeah. And I think one of the things that is most important to me, we’re safe in the sea.

 

00;07;43;08 – 00;07;55;18

Michelle Pratt

It is that is exactly what you said is I am a mom first and I’m a child passenger safety expert second. And that’s the perspective that we come from with everything on our platform is like, I’m living it.

 

00;07;55;21 – 00;07;57;11

Dr. Mona

I get it. Yeah.

 

00;07;57;14 – 00;08;05;26

Michelle Pratt

And here’s the information. So that hopefully people can make even better choices than I did when I first started because I as a mom, I didn’t know. I didn’t know what I was doing.

 

00;08;05;26 – 00;08;22;18

Dr. Mona

Yeah, no, I love that. And I mean, I know a lot of your origin story comes from personal lived experience and obviously what you felt like the world needed and what pushed you to create a space like this. And I’m, you know, as your friend on social media. And also I can say, friend, because I’ve met you in real life, you wonderful.

 

00;08;22;18 – 00;08;40;15

Dr. Mona

You’re a wonderful asset to this world. I think so highly of you, which is why I wanted you on the show too, so that people who may not be familiar with who you are can become familiar with who you are. Well, I have a feeling that most people know who you are because you’re like the the the child passenger safety tech that I go to.

 

00;08;40;18 – 00;08;50;25

Dr. Mona

And I share a lot of your videos, but what pushed you to create a space like this? And you know what has made giving you that motivation through all this years?

 

00;08;50;28 – 00;08;59;21

Dr. Mona

Now let’s take a quick break to hear from our sponsors who support helps us keep bringing you this show. Oh.

 

00;08;59;23 – 00;09;22;06

Michelle Pratt

I think the I mean, certainly it came from a personal place where I was like, okay, I am, you know, I did all the research. I was the, the crazy obsessive one. My mom was like doing safety research and presenting details like, you know, all these things. And then I go to the hospital. I have my son, and emergency C-section, long labor.

 

00;09;22;06 – 00;09;44;16

Michelle Pratt

Nothing really went as planned. And I’m like, we’re just ready to go home. And then I have him and I get ready to put him in the car seat, which I had. I knew I had to have one. I knew I had to have somebody possibly look at the base, which, by the way, was still installed incorrectly. I but I had never once practiced with actually putting up a teddy bear, a doll, another kid, you know, a friend’s baby.

 

00;09;44;18 – 00;10;08;23

Michelle Pratt

And I just felt somebody was going to do it. It created this huge fight with my now ex-husband. And, and it was just not the experience I want any anyone to go through. And so that sort of was just like in my head. And as I was talking to my other friends or looking at things online, just doing the mom doom scroll that we do in the middle of the night feedings or anything else, I just got this sense that, wait a minute, other people feel this way too.

 

00;10;08;26 – 00;10;27;25

Michelle Pratt

This is not something that I’m alone experiencing where it’s like I messed up. I didn’t know how to put him in the seat. I had to have someone correct me. And then the shame and the judgment and that, oh my gosh, I’m failing as a mom already. Like, I just got goosebumps saying that because that’s why we exist.

 

00;10;27;26 – 00;10;51;26

Michelle Pratt

That’s what keeps me going. There is absolutely no reason for anyone to not be empowered to keep their kids safe. We have the information. We know exactly what to do. It’s not hard to do it once you know what you’re doing. And so I always tell people, I want you to come for the car seat content, and I want you to stay for everything else because you can get this doesn’t have to be where you constantly are wondering if you’re doing it right.

 

00;10;51;27 – 00;11;17;08

Michelle Pratt

No, I’ll tell you exactly what to do. I’ll tell you exactly how to do it. Go ahead and do that, and then you can check that off your list until we’re ready to transition to the next stage. And we learned that one. So really it is about the caretaker community moms are my biggest audience. And how do we make people feel good about keeping your kids safe and being empowered with the right information to do it?

 

00;11;17;10 – 00;11;39;13

Dr. Mona

Yeah. I love that story, and I really appreciate you being so transparent. I do the same thing on my platform about mistakes I’ve made or, you know, things that I’ve learned, whether it’s about having judgment about certain things and opening my mind more to, you know, different situations. And I think that vulnerability and that transparency is why people gravitate towards you and why I again, continue to follow, follow you and want to know what you’re up to.

 

00;11;39;16 – 00;12;05;03

Dr. Mona

Because I it radiates, you know, it really is important for educators in all these different spaces to have that sort of vibe, in my opinion, because shame is not a great way to teach, and shame is not a great way to hold on to actual values that you want to create, right? I mean, if you’re saying, like, you need to do this and you’re horrible, mom, that’s not going to sit more is like, hey, I’ve been there and can I tell you, like, this is what we can do, to make you and everybody so much safer.

 

00;12;05;03 – 00;12;25;28

Dr. Mona

It just comes off much more different. Just by how I said that. Right. And you, you you already alluded to one of the early mistakes I think a lot of parents make and. True story. So you and me went through like, instantly, you know, installation and how to put the doll in. And I was ready. But my lovely husband did not practice.

 

00;12;26;00 – 00;12;42;10

Dr. Mona

And who was the one who had to do that? When I was postpartum with a to a C-section with a surgery after unable to walk up straight? It was my husband. And I’m going to be quite honest with you, it was not installed correctly. Like I know this because it was loose. I was like, sweetie, like this isn’t right.

 

00;12;42;10 – 00;12;57;29

Dr. Mona

But I was so ready to go home that we just strapped her, strapped Orion in, and the chest clip was at the belly, which we’ll get into is not where it’s supposed to be. And I remember, like, putting my hand on his chest because I was like, this doesn’t seem right, but we got to get the heck home.

 

00;12;58;01 – 00;13;18;02

Dr. Mona

And it was wrong. Like, I’m telling you, it’s wrong. And the the key here is if you have any partner or other person that’s going to be there, both you and your partner should know it. And I think one of the biggest mistakes is thinking that we can wing the installation, or assuming someone from the hospital will handle it, like the nurse or a staff member.

 

00;13;18;05 – 00;13;21;22

Dr. Mona

Why is this such a risky assumption? And what would you want parents to know instead to do?

 

00;13;21;25 – 00;13;41;26

Michelle Pratt

You know, I mean, I think your story and my story about that hospital experience, even if it if labor goes exactly as intended, it’s a very stressful time when it’s like, all right, let’s go. Get out of the hospital. They’re ready to turn the room it’s on, and next thing you’re ready to go. And so I give everyone the advice of practice.

 

00;13;41;26 – 00;14;05;21

Michelle Pratt

Both of you practice whoever is going to be in that room with you are helping to get you home that day. Make sure you practice. And then I tend to pull, pull aside the significant others that will be in the room and say, listen, your partner is going through a very big experience that could yet be, and we don’t know how it’s all going to play out, other than of course, you’re going to have a beautiful, healthy baby at the end of it.

 

00;14;05;23 – 00;14;23;21

Michelle Pratt

But it may take it, may takes some laboring and other things to get there. And you have one job, which is to keep your baby safe. And I need you to do that. And so what I recommend every significant other does, and I’ve had so many parents tell me that they did this for their second, that they didn’t find me for their first.

 

00;14;23;21 – 00;14;40;06

Michelle Pratt

And what a difference it made before it’s time to leave. Whatever your place of birth is not at the 11th hour when they’re they’re like, let’s go, get out of the room when it’s a little bit quiet, when you have a little bit of downtime, at least a day before you’re going to be discharged, go get that car seat.

 

00;14;40;09 – 00;15;00;11

Michelle Pratt

Bring it in. This is a this is the partner’s job. Bring it in and just set it on the floor facing the the mom because she’s going to watch you. She can want to make sure it’s right. You do your practicing then get the adjustments made. Then figure out if the shoulder straps need to be moved. Make the mistake.

 

00;15;00;18 – 00;15;20;14

Michelle Pratt

That’s all fair game. And then you can you can see. And now we even actually we just launched the service because of this where people can send pictures in. And then with 24 hours we can review it to say, hey, we got to kind of tweak something here or there. So then when it is time to leave the hospital or a place of birth, it’s chill.

 

00;15;20;16 – 00;15;36;19

Michelle Pratt

It’s like, I know what a debacle is, canon. I know what I’m doing. So that practicing is so critical. And I think, like any of us, you know, you go to a hospital setting or a birth center and you’re like, well, they’re going to know how to do everything. So I’m just going to learn from them.

 

00;15;36;21 – 00;15;37;17

Dr. Mona

Yeah. No.

 

00;15;37;20 – 00;15;39;13

Michelle Pratt

It’s the same as pediatricians, right?

 

00;15;39;15 – 00;15;39;28

Dr. Mona

Yeah.

 

00;15;39;28 – 00;15;59;24

Michelle Pratt

You want your pediatrician, I’ll be like, well, they’re going to tell me when to move the shoulder straps up or when to switch. No, no, that’s not the training. That’s not that’s not the expertise. And so safety of our kids is our responsibility from the time they they enter the world. And that’s the same when their first ride home is it’s our responsibility.

 

00;15;59;24 – 00;16;09;08

Michelle Pratt

And there’s a stat out there that 96% of parents leave with their baby unsafe. Unsafe.

 

00;16;09;10 – 00;16;27;05

Dr. Mona

I mean, 100% I, I, I’m not surprised by that number because, I mean, I, obviously I, I’m not involved in the when the patients getting discharged, but I can from our own personal experiences. I can tell you that that number’s pretty. Pretty high and pretty accurate for sure. Yeah. I mean, I’ve.

 

00;16;27;05 – 00;16;31;19

Michelle Pratt

Not only left the hospital, but I drove around for a solid ten days before somebody was like.

 

00;16;31;19 – 00;16;32;20

Dr. Mona

Yeah,

 

00;16;32;23 – 00;16;35;23

Michelle Pratt

You might want to take a look at things in here.

 

00;16;35;25 – 00;16;41;25

Dr. Mona

You became you became a child passenger safety technician, obviously. After how many years after that? You’re right. I was being.

 

00;16;41;25 – 00;16;45;02

Michelle Pratt

I was cert I got certified in 2018.

 

00;16;45;05 – 00;16;46;26

Dr. Mona

Okay, I actually became.

 

00;16;46;29 – 00;16;59;18

Michelle Pratt

I became certified before I started really giving any public information because I just was like, I need to, you know, I can be passionate about it, but I need to make sure I’m actually certified to.

 

00;16;59;20 – 00;17;13;07

Dr. Mona

That is that’s exactly why I did. I’m like, there’s some you know, people do that right away. But I was practicing for 4 or 5 years before I was like, you know what? I think I want to do this now. And I, you know, obviously even now we still like I still learn so much, as a pediatrician.

 

00;17;13;07 – 00;17;34;04

Dr. Mona

So it’s awesome. And yeah, I think this is such an important thing. I love that tip. The practicing. And I think parents often forget how uncomfortable they may be with a newborn, meaning the actual body of a newborn. The amount of parents that, like, freak out when I, like, manhandle a newborn because I know how. And they’re like, moving their little arms through the little hand, you know, the little strap.

 

00;17;34;04 – 00;17;48;08

Dr. Mona

And I’m like, you know, get practicing with that. Know that you’re not going to hurt them. Obviously, you’re going to be gentle with them, but that is not a doll, right. So the doll practicing is phenomenal. But the human I love that I don’t even actually I don’t think I remember that from you told me and I love that.

 

00;17;48;08 – 00;18;12;28

Dr. Mona

But that is such a great tip. And that’s something we definitely did not do. And the next, the next thing I alluded to was installation. Obviously, we’re not talking about like all the very important installation of the base and things like that, but just in general chest placement. What is proper chest clip placement? I said that I had it in the belly, which I know is wrong, but tell people why this matters where it should be.

 

00;18;12;28 – 00;18;14;13

Dr. Mona

And some general rules.

 

00;18;14;15 – 00;18;33;09

Michelle Pratt

Yeah. So the chest clip is always at armpit level. So you’re going to find the armpits. It’s going to be at armpit level. The littler the baby is the closer that is to kind of their head because they don’t have a whole lot of room there over time, obviously that distance expands. A chest clip is there as a pre positioner.

 

00;18;33;12 – 00;18;54;21

Michelle Pratt

So its job is to help keep those shoulder harness straps on the shoulders. So if you just think about it logically, right. If I slide that chest clip down, the shoulder straps are more likely to be able to fall off to the side. It’s just like bra straps, right? Like if our boobs were, you know, two feet lower than where they are, these straps would be falling down a lot more easily.

 

00;18;54;21 – 00;19;10;26

Michelle Pratt

So having it at armpit level so it can keep those straps in the right position in the event of a crash is why we do it. A lot of times the chest clip does slide down and pull apart in a in a car crash, but it’s a pre positioner to make sure we keep those harness straps where they need to be.

 

00;19;10;29 – 00;19;20;26

Dr. Mona

I love it and also it is also that the chest clip in an event of an inch in an event of a car crash, if it’s in the abdomen, can cause more problems in the abdomen or not. So much like.

 

00;19;20;26 – 00;19;33;12

Michelle Pratt

No I yeah. No because the it’s it really is likely going to just break apart at that point if you’re in that severe of a crash. So listen if that helps people to not put it there okay. But it’s not.

 

00;19;33;15 – 00;19;33;21

Dr. Mona

Just.

 

00;19;33;21 – 00;19;52;17

Michelle Pratt

About factually accurate. It’s it’s really is about the placement of those harness straps on the shoulders because, yeah, I mean, if we take it a step further, if the shoulder straps come off the shoulders, you know, not that anyone wants this visual, but then the child can fly out of the car seat. So this is a there’s reasons for every step of the carseat safety process.

 

00;19;52;23 – 00;20;09;07

Michelle Pratt

It’s all related to something else. And I think for both of us on our platforms, that’s something really important is like, I want people to understand the why because it is tedious and it is every dang time you put them in the car. And it is that one ride where like crap it move the chest clip. Do I need to go pull over and move it?

 

00;20;09;07 – 00;20;17;09

Michelle Pratt

And it’s like, connect it to the why and then it becomes less annoying and less frustrating because you know you’re doing it for the right reason.

 

00;20;17;11 – 00;20;34;16

Dr. Mona

Yeah. Like even now our son is five and a half at the time of this recording. And, you know, he sometimes has other caregivers drive him. And I’m very adamant about the chest plate, the chest clip placement. Not every caregiver is going to be right. And that’s also getting people on board. That could be a whole other podcast episode.

 

00;20;34;16 – 00;20;59;03

Dr. Mona

We do. Yeah. But like he now I’m like, sweetie, when you get strapped in, like, if it’s not me, where does your chest clip go? Go. And he’s like, mommy right here by my underarms. And I was like, yes, sweetie, right here. And it’s really good because even when he like, you know, is getting in and someone else, he’s saying it and whether they follow it or not is I have to just remember like, okay, just but he is very adamant and my son is very persistent, that he won’t stop talking about it until someone fixes it.

 

00;20;59;08 – 00;21;03;19

Dr. Mona

So yes, mommy is seeping into your brain. I love you, right?

 

00;21;03;26 – 00;21;28;18

Michelle Pratt

I mean, I think empowering our kids to understand how to protect themselves and keep themselves safe is the key line of defense here, especially when they are going with other caretakers. I mean, my my daughters and a booster and a lot of times her, friends are not at ten years old. And so when they go to hop into another car, my daughter will be like, I can’t, I can’t go unless I have a booster.

 

00;21;28;20 – 00;21;38;26

Michelle Pratt

And so I do think getting them to be behind that, well, you know what it needs to look like, how I need to feel in it. It just makes our job a little easier.

 

00;21;38;29 – 00;21;52;25

Dr. Mona

Yeah. And I mean, going back to the car line thing, obviously a lot of kids are getting unstrapped, and we have the rule that we can’t unstrap until we stop, right? I mean, when we get to the front and of course, it’s it’s a little longer. I don’t think people it’s not that much longer. Like, it’s I think it’s just I get it though.

 

00;21;52;25 – 00;22;17;00

Dr. Mona

You’re already in that rush mentality. But he I love it because because of the boundaries and because of the repetition, he knows that he can’t do it until I give him the go ahead. So I say, hey, Ryan, we’re stopped. You can take off your clip, right? Because he knows how to unbuckle himself. Right. But and you could say that a lot of kids would just start doing it, but it was the repetition when he was two, two and a half, starting to figure out the unbuckling like, oh, sweetie, we can’t do that.

 

00;22;17;00 – 00;22;32;18

Dr. Mona

We have to keep it on. We can’t move the car unless it’s on and so it really did help. And it’s is it easy to keep doing that repetition? No, but it’s parenting like, oh, I can apply this to everything, right. Like washing his hands. Like he doesn’t want to do it, but I think it’s an important boundary.

 

00;22;32;23 – 00;22;52;02

Dr. Mona

So I’m going to keep doing it. So it goes back to the parents having the buy in. So the kids have the buy in, which I love that. And empowering them to say, you know what? This is what I want to do and listen. Another true story I sometimes backed out the car without putting my seatbelt on. Like back out the car and Ryan will hear the dinging and he’ll be like, mommy, you don’t have your seatbelt on.

 

00;22;52;04 – 00;23;04;08

Dr. Mona

Look at that kid. I’m like, Ryan, you’re right. I should have put my seatbelt on. That was a mistake. I should have put that on before I started the car and then. Yeah. And like, I’m just giving examples of, like, if you can do the right work here, your kid will call you out.

 

00;23;04;08 – 00;23;05;06

Michelle Pratt

They will call you.

 

00;23;05;06 – 00;23;06;22

Dr. Mona

Out and say.

 

00;23;06;24 – 00;23;26;05

Michelle Pratt

I want, you know, my son is 12. Like he’ll be driving before I know it. And he understands the importance of buckling in the car in all the different ways. And so I never want him to be in that driver’s seat and thinking it’s okay to ride without a seatbelt. So it’s just, you know, we start early with getting these messages and these boundaries and place with them.

 

00;23;26;05 – 00;23;45;19

Michelle Pratt

So for him, it’s like, I would never even consider riding without a seatbelt or without it right, being proper on my body. Because also, as they get older, you can start to tell them what some of the risks look like in the age appropriate way. But it’s like, you know, this is serious business. These are moving vehicles.

 

00;23;45;21 – 00;24;04;01

Dr. Mona

Now let’s take a quick break to hear from our sponsors who support helps us keep bringing you this show. Oh yeah. And I mean, I think one of the common things that I often hear is that, you know, we it’s that survivor bias from, you know, a long time ago, like back in the 80s, 90s, there were not a lot of regulations.

 

00;24;04;01 – 00;24;27;15

Dr. Mona

I have very vivid memories of sitting in the back of like, a truck, like without any. And that’s not a new story. And my parents weren’t very adamant about seatbelts in the back. Right. And that we all survived. But it obviously is survivor bias. And I think it’s also important to remember that so many of us listening probably grew up in the 80s and 90s, where that was the case, but just because we made it doesn’t mean people didn’t make it.

 

00;24;27;15 – 00;24;44;03

Dr. Mona

And obviously it was a very tragic thing. Like and I will also say that my people like, well, everyone did. I’m like, the problem now that I see on the roads is the lack, the higher degree of distracted driving, regardless of the fact that we should have seatbelts on as it is, there’s way more distraction on the road than there was 20 years ago.

 

00;24;44;03 – 00;25;01;11

Dr. Mona

I mean, already we should have been doing seatbelts, but I see it all the time. People on their phones, people like, you know, doing their makeup like it’s so much. There’s so much distraction and lack of present, present ness when we’re driving that there’s just way more accidents. And I don’t want that. Like, I mean, no one should want that.

 

00;25;01;18 – 00;25;15;04

Dr. Mona

And again, as a New York husband and I, I’m a pedes. We see just all the the small instances that happen that you’re like split second decisions that you could have done something different and it ended in tragedy. And that’s kind of why we’re here, you know?

 

00;25;15;04 – 00;25;17;14

Michelle Pratt

Yeah, I think that’s a huge part of.

 

00;25;17;17 – 00;25;18;28

Dr. Mona

What.

 

00;25;19;01 – 00;25;37;05

Michelle Pratt

I try to message and why the seat exists. Because I never want a mom to be on the other side of a car crash to say, I wish I would have known or I should have, but I still get goosebumps when I say that stuff because it’s already going to. You’re already going to have all those feelings, but control the controllable in your car.

 

00;25;37;05 – 00;26;06;05

Michelle Pratt

Inside there you can control a lot of things to keep yourself and your children as safe as possible on every single ride, no matter how short, no matter how fast or slow. And that is all we can do, because we can’t control what other people are doing on the road. And I want someone. I mean, we’re all going to get in a crash at some point in our life, and there’s usually multiple is kind of what the statistics show us varying degrees, obviously, and hopefully very minor.

 

00;26;06;05 – 00;26;20;06

Michelle Pratt

But still we’re all going to be on the other side of that at some point and looking and I just like I said, I don’t want anyone to be like, oh, I didn’t know I was not having a booster yet. I didn’t know the chest. There was supposed to be an armpit level. I didn’t know x, y, z there.

 

00;26;20;09 – 00;26;22;10

Michelle Pratt

We have all the information for you to know.

 

00;26;22;12 – 00;26;41;01

Dr. Mona

Yeah. Oh, I know I really appreciate that. And I’ve been I have been in one so far and it was a sideswipe and thankfully it was all grown ups all wearing their seat belts. But you think about even the whiplash we all got from having seat belts on. But if we had not if we had not had seat belts, someone would have been thrown through a window because of the speed that, that that happened.

 

00;26;41;03 – 00;26;57;17

Dr. Mona

And we walked out of there like, I mean, it was totaled the car. And so those are just instances that I again, I don’t I agree, I don’t want anyone to find themselves in and it’s a should have coulda, woulda situation. Right. And why I’m and why I love the work that you do. You know, the next, the next one was something that I actually did not know as a pediatrician.

 

00;26;57;17 – 00;27;12;21

Dr. Mona

And again, I want to reiterate that these are the nitty gritty things that, again, child passenger safety technicians know, and we should know, which was the one inch rule. So can you explain what it is and why it’s important when checking for a secure install and positioning?

 

00;27;12;23 – 00;27;31;14

Michelle Pratt

Yeah. So let me back it up for a minute. And talking like realistic terms, which is what I like to do and how love helps me retain that information. So if you think about we’ve got like a vehicle that’s made for adult passengers, that’s how it’s tested, that’s how the different, parts of it are made, safety features, all of it is made for an adult body.

 

00;27;31;16 – 00;27;52;26

Michelle Pratt

And, and I’m talking to adult on the outside, but also fully developed on the inside as well. Now we have to take these teeny tiny passengers or children, you know, at any level. And we have to put them in this monstrosity of a machine that is going out on roads at high speeds and isn’t made for children.

 

00;27;52;29 – 00;27;53;09

Dr. Mona

Yeah.

 

00;27;53;15 – 00;28;13;05

Michelle Pratt

So we got to retrofit it essentially. And we do that by adding in these car seats or boosters to properly fit the age and stage child that we have. I find that if people just kind of think about it that way, it’s like, okay, wait a minute, this, this beast of a mobile is not meant for my kid.

 

00;28;13;08 – 00;28;37;25

Michelle Pratt

So I have to change it to make it safe for my kid to ride in it, which is one of the most dangerous things I will ever do with them. So when I put them in that car, having whatever it is that we’re adding to it, the car seat be as tight as possible logically makes sense, right? We already have to adapt the car to be able to ride or with our children in it.

 

00;28;37;28 – 00;28;57;17

Michelle Pratt

And so we put the car seats and we want them to move less than an inch, meaning when we give them a little handshake at the belt path, the belt path is where the strap that has the lower anchors attaches, or the seat belt goes always closest to the vehicle seat back. No matter which way you’re facing. When you give it a little, you know, shimmy shake to be crazy about it.

 

00;28;57;17 – 00;29;16;18

Michelle Pratt

And for our weight on it, we just want to know what’s not moving more than an inch because less movement is less injury. And yeah, we don’t need to overtighten or sit on it or grab tools. None of that. It’s crash tested to have a bit of movement, but less than an inch is is the goal and it’s very achievable.

 

00;29;16;18 – 00;29;30;01

Michelle Pratt

Or some very easy, quick installation tips that do not require a ton of sweating or swearing. And we can we can get that thing in there. Less than an inch easily.

 

00;29;30;03 – 00;29;47;10

Dr. Mona

And if you’re listening to this on the podcast, meaning the audio version, I’m going to be clipping in some of her videos in my YouTube version, obviously, check out her page and check out her resources. But this is all really important stuff. And then there’s also another one inch rule with the height of the head from the top of the car seat, right.

 

00;29;47;10 – 00;29;50;06

Dr. Mona

That’s another one inch rule. Like tell me about that. Yeah. Yeah.

 

00;29;50;07 – 00;30;02;15

Michelle Pratt

I mean, another one that I am 100% guilty of because I thought when you have a seat, you have a weight limit and you have a height limit. This is for rear facing, but you also have a head height limit.

 

00;30;02;18 – 00;30;04;02

Dr. Mona

That’s something that I didn’t know. Right.

 

00;30;04;05 – 00;30;35;08

Michelle Pratt

I knew nothing about. I’m like, well, so my son was well within the weight limit and well within the inches height limit, which is for a kid that’s standing and we sit in car seats. So it’s kind of arbitrary. But it was freaking head was popping out over the infantry, and I had no idea. So the again, here, if we kind of back things up, we just want the the head of our children rear facing to for their head to be protected, so that if they bounce around in the event of a car crash, there’s nothing that can hit their head.

 

00;30;35;10 – 00;30;52;29

Michelle Pratt

Yeah, their head is up above the shell of the seat. Then we’re risking their actual head hitting the door, hitting the person next to them, hitting the seat in front of them, and or having a projectile be more likely to hit them. Something that’s flying around in the car. So the one inch rule not every seat has it at exactly one inch.

 

00;30;52;29 – 00;31;11;22

Michelle Pratt

So as always, read your mind. Yes, but in general, one inch from the top of the head to the top of the shell of the car seat. Or like the adjuster handle, if it has an adjuster handle. Just think, we want your child to be encased like a turtle. We want when the head retreats back into that, we want it to be in that car seat.

 

00;31;11;22 – 00;31;31;23

Michelle Pratt

Shell not ever popping out over it. So if that happens, they have for sure outgrown the seat, even if they’re within the height and weight limit. So it’s always a one and done with limits height limit, weight limit or head height limit. For rear facing. You hit one of those and you’re you’re done with that that stage.

 

00;31;31;26 – 00;31;47;16

Dr. Mona

Well the reason why I also again I this is what I learned from you. And that’s what I was like mentioning because I and you also talked about it beautifully when I remember learning about it from you, because we don’t account for how people have longer legs and longer torsos. Right. So obviously when you sit, that can make the difference, right?

 

00;31;47;16 – 00;32;01;09

Dr. Mona

So you have a kid with a my, my kids have short torsos so long. My son had long legs. So when he sat in it, he was well under that one inch from the top of the again we’re talking about here’s the top of your car seat coming in. Right. But if it was a.

 

00;32;01;16 – 00;32;02;09

Michelle Pratt

Little car seat.

 

00;32;02;15 – 00;32;03;14

Dr. Mona

Yes. You know, we.

 

00;32;03;16 – 00;32;06;05

Michelle Pratt

We want to have like some space here.

 

00;32;06;07 – 00;32;23;27

Dr. Mona

Right. And so with but you’re if you have a long torso kid and you don’t realize and you’re not looking at that, I think it’s again, it’s one of those small but important rules which you’re focus so much on. Okay. Yeah. The height weight I’m doing rear facing. But is the head protected because that’s the goal too. It’s not just about getting the car seat, putting it in.

 

00;32;23;27 – 00;32;44;11

Dr. Mona

I know and I we could talk about this forever, but you also talk about how, you know, what’s your car, your car set up. Right. Like what what seats are going to make the most sense for if you’re needing to put someone in the middle or whatever. I mean, there’s so much about it that that’s why I think having someone like a child passenger safety technician is so vital, because they can walk you through all that.

 

00;32;44;11 – 00;32;57;03

Dr. Mona

And I know your resources do a lot of that, which I just love. But yeah, that’s that one inch rule that I was like, oh my gosh. And I luckily it was fine for us because we have a short torso kid. But, I didn’t even realize that. And then as he started to grow, I was like, oh yeah.

 

00;32;57;09 – 00;33;21;17

Dr. Mona

And Viera has a longer torso, so she may outgrow that sooner. And so that was really helpful. The next one is something that, also, again, this is like just such small nuance, but so important is where the shoulder, the shoulder strap comes out, whether it’s rear facing or forward facing. So if you can explain which should be which and, and is there a reason for someone who may not understand why that’s important?

 

00;33;21;18 – 00;33;23;02

Dr. Mona

Because we love the one. Yeah. Yeah.

 

00;33;23;06 – 00;33;49;19

Michelle Pratt

So the overarching why and then I’ll go back to like what it needs to look like is that based on the direction that you’re facing, the straps are in different locations because of the way crash force dynamics work. Now, I’m not an engineer or a physicist or a scientist or any of those things, but what I can tell you is there are different phases in a car crash that happen, and as a result, the body goes through those different phases as well.

 

00;33;49;22 – 00;34;15;07

Michelle Pratt

So the movement of the child in the direction they’re facing matter. The shoulder strap position matters to again have movement management, which means that we are going to limit injury. So shoulder strap placement and rear facing kids is it’s going to be at or just wrapped around the shoulder. So you’re looking for the slot that is as close to even with or just below the shoulder.

 

00;34;15;10 – 00;34;35;17

Michelle Pratt

When in doubt, if it’s a lot of times kids settle in their car seats or just the one slot below is usually a pretty good, indicator. If you’re digging way down their back trying to get those shoulder straps up and over, you need to make an adjustment. Because that’s the other thing I don’t know that people always understand is, yeah, you don’t install it once and buckle your kid in it once.

 

00;34;35;17 – 00;34;57;08

Michelle Pratt

It never adjust it. They grow. So your car seat has to grow. So rear facing at or below. Think of it like a bra strap, right? It’s just kind of wrapping around the shoulder a little bit. It’s keeping that body position down. So in the event of a crash it stays where it’s supposed to. When we flip forward, facing the rules change and it becomes that the shoulder straps will be even with or just above.

 

00;34;57;15 – 00;35;14;21

Michelle Pratt

So we’re facing we’re we’re looking for the slot closest to right below and for forward facing. We’re looking for the slot closest to just above. And again it’s so that the body can move upward and back down based on rebound and all of these other things that are fancy physics. I love it, you know, stuff that doctors are way better at.

 

00;35;14;24 – 00;35;34;19

Dr. Mona

We’ll see. I love the physics of it all. I mean, there was one. We’ll get to the rear facing stuff. There was a video that you had posted. I’m also going to be posting it again when we actually talk about this episode, about rear facing dynamics and the physics of movement. And it makes sense. I mean, I love that you’re explaining it because I, like you said earlier, if people can understand the why, they’re more likely to check it out and actually do it.

 

00;35;34;19 – 00;35;50;28

Dr. Mona

They’re like, yeah, I don’t want my kid to be bouncing up and down or be restricted. But it makes sense to be, again, to kind of clarify rear facing straps below or as close to below, forward facing at level or the right above like the slot. Yeah. Love it, I say I love this.

 

00;35;51;00 – 00;36;15;02

Michelle Pratt

You don’t have to move them that often. Yeah, I mean, so I think it’s I actually one of my best tips is when you’re in the pediatrician’s parking lot. Yeah. That is when you do a car seat check, especially in the first year. You’re there all the time. So and that’s the time when we’re seeing a lot of growth happening and where adjustments to be made at a more rapid speed, you have their stats, you can compare it right to the label on the seat.

 

00;36;15;04 – 00;36;28;29

Michelle Pratt

Like that’s what it’s just kind of a mental reminder of, okay, when I go to the pediatrician, I also do a car seat check when I’m back in the car. And then if, you know, if you see that adjustments need to be make you make them, they’re not hard.

 

00;36;29;01 – 00;36;43;08

Dr. Mona

Love that advice I mean I love it. It’s and it’s again you’re out already. You’re already in the car. Unless it’s like, you know, 100 degrees in Florida and you need to get inside. I respect that, but you can do it quick. Right. So. Right. Yes, exactly. And you’re gonna have to do it anyways. So you might as well just do it then.

 

00;36;43;08 – 00;36;59;27

Dr. Mona

Like, it’s like not going, you know, you’re not going to do that in the middle of the night when there’s no when there’s when it’s exactly no light. I love that tip. I absolutely love that. And again, we provide all of that for you. So you match it up and you just do the check and you’re good for the next few months most likely, unless there’s like a major growth spurt.

 

00;37;00;02 – 00;37;17;12

Dr. Mona

See I love all these these again, small tips that make a huge difference and really don’t add a lot of mindspace, right? This is like a routine. You just add this in and you do it so that you keep the kids safe. And I that’s why I love, love talking to you. The next one is you alluded to this about the manual.

 

00;37;17;12 – 00;37;33;22

Dr. Mona

Many people skip it because they just were like, I any manual they get what is something is there. Do you think it’s important to read the manual? And if a parent is reading the manual, is there certain parts of the manual that they should really be focusing on? And why do you think it matters?

 

00;37;33;24 – 00;37;39;10

Michelle Pratt

You know, I am a person that gets a new blender and throws the manual away.

 

00;37;39;13 – 00;37;39;29

Dr. Mona

Like, yeah.

 

00;37;40;01 – 00;38;02;18

Michelle Pratt

You know, I get it. Yeah. I think again, we can’t all manuals are not created equal. So when we talk about the safety of our kids and these huge vehicles that are being retrofitted to fit them, we got to take a minute and go through the manual. There’s usually a warnings or an important section at the beginning, which it took me a long time to figure this out.

 

00;38;02;18 – 00;38;19;03

Michelle Pratt

It it has a lot of the things that you’ll hear us talk about as child passenger safety technicians. But like when I was at one, I didn’t know because I never read that. It’s like the missile section. You just kind of skip it. You’re like, how do I put this thing in the car? I would glance through that.

 

00;38;19;03 – 00;38;38;20

Michelle Pratt

It’s going to give you a lot of just kind of overarching car seat safety information, but also some things very specific to your seat that may not be anywhere else in the manual. Can I use a car key under Matt? How do you know you got to look in that section. It’s not under installation. What it makes sense in our minds to be with the insulation section sure would.

 

00;38;38;26 – 00;39;04;27

Michelle Pratt

But that’s not how the manuals are written. So that part and then obviously understanding the current stage that you’re in, what are the proper ways to install? What is allowed, what is not allowed. Don’t wing it. Don’t guess. These car seats are very intentionally crash tested many, many, many times, and we have to follow the ways that they’re supposed to actually be installed so they perform the way that they should in a crash.

 

00;39;05;00 – 00;39;24;16

Michelle Pratt

I also would suggest like looking a little bit ahead, you know, what’s coming next. You don’t have to get into the installation of it and the nitty gritty about harnessing, but just have it in your mind of like, okay, so once I get through the infancy, for example, then there’s going to be a rear I’m going to once I get through the infant stage, I’m going to go to the rear facing convertible stage.

 

00;39;24;16 – 00;39;42;05

Michelle Pratt

Oh, look, my manual doesn’t have that because it’s an infant only seat or mine goes from rear facing to forward facing. Okay, I think the other key thing is like again, guilty. Like I’m guilty of all these things, which is why I try to share them, that I did not read the manual when I switched from rear to forward facing.

 

00;39;42;05 – 00;39;55;25

Michelle Pratt

Yeah. I was like, I know what I’m doing, all right. What’s the problem? Like, I’ve been doing car seats for a couple of years now. Like, what’s the big deal? I never use the top tether, for example, which is a strap attached when your kid is forward facing, because I didn’t have to do it rear facing. Yeah.

 

00;39;55;25 – 00;40;07;05

Michelle Pratt

Don’t be like me always. When you’re transitioning stages, please read the manual and don’t make assumptions about what happened in the previous stage, thinking it automatically applies to the next one.

 

00;40;07;07 – 00;40;26;03

Dr. Mona

Love that. Oh, I think again, thank you for sharing the the personal insight. Because again, people people forget that the the type of the car seat. And then obviously we’re going from, you know, boots like different styles. And I mean, I think one of the best resources I ever got from you was one of the visuals about like when you’re moving kids to different types of car seats.

 

00;40;26;08 – 00;40;32;02

Dr. Mona

And then at those moments you have, you have you always have to get used to a new type of device that’s protecting your kid. So yeah, I.

 

00;40;32;02 – 00;40;48;10

Michelle Pratt

Really just, that’s like our number one question. I get asked when to move from one seat to the next. We actually just create a resource called Safe to Switch that has exactly what you need to know on it. And it’s been it’s hard. It’s hard to know you. How would you know?

 

00;40;48;13 – 00;40;49;05

Dr. Mona

Right.

 

00;40;49;08 – 00;41;07;16

Michelle Pratt

How would you know what to do when? I mean, that’s a huge reason we do what we do because it’s like there’s not some magic fairy that comes in is like, now’s the time. No, you have to be on top of it. And we’re already so overloaded with information. But it is easy to miss it. It is.

 

00;41;07;18 – 00;41;15;27

Dr. Mona

Now let’s take a quick break to hear from our sponsors who support helps us keep bringing you this show.

 

00;41;15;29 – 00;41;43;03

Dr. Mona

And I mean, this is actually a good segue to one of the other mistakes, which is there’s a lot of miscommunication and misinformation around rear facing and turning kids forward. So and I don’t know if you know the origin, but like in my training, like, I don’t know if this was all work, if this was incorrect advice all the time, or if something changed and pediatricians weren’t up to date, but for like 10 or 15 years ago, it was rear facing until two and then moving them forward.

 

00;41;43;05 – 00;42;03;18

Dr. Mona

Is that always? Was that always what was happening in the car literature, or was it that we you guys learned it later and then pediatricians weren’t catching on because some pediatricians are still saying, turn your kid forward to two, when we’re now going to talk about why it’s beneficial to keep them rear facing until they max out. Height, excess weight on the rear facing, correct.

 

00;42;03;23 – 00;42;06;04

Dr. Mona

Yeah. Yeah, I’m trying to yeah.

 

00;42;06;04 – 00;42;33;01

Michelle Pratt

So my understanding is that based on the data that there was kind of this catchy slogan to say don’t forward face until there too. And it just kind of to say please, at minimum, okay, I do it before too, because it was happening and still happens where people like turning their kids, you know, at when they occur, they infancy and they’re now nine months.

 

00;42;33;02 – 00;42;54;18

Dr. Mona

Allison monster I’m seeing I’m seeing tons of infants in my parking lot forward facing. And I’m like literally doing after visit when I’m about to leave my office, I’m like, hey, we need to talk about this because there’s so much that we, again, we have to talk about in the visit to also go, hey, rear facing the nice and it’s like, but it’s so it’s so scary how people just don’t know what they don’t know and so don’t know.

 

00;42;54;24 – 00;42;58;29

Michelle Pratt

Yeah. Yeah. Because I don’t believe people are doing things to intentionally harm their kids.

 

00;42;59;00 – 00;42;59;18

Dr. Mona

Right, right.

 

00;42;59;19 – 00;43;17;29

Michelle Pratt

I really don’t I we’ve never gone from that place in any of my messaging. I believe people want to do the very best and safest for their kids, and they’re doing things like switching them forward, facing before they should, just because that’s what they thought they should do. And I that before the age of to switch it to by the way I switched my son on his second birthday.

 

00;43;18;01 – 00;43;18;21

Dr. Mona

 

00;43;18;23 – 00;43;35;19

Michelle Pratt

That’s what I thought I was supposed to do because I got as a consumer, as a mom, I got the messages as well. Second birthday. Today is the day we’re going to turn that car seat around. And then when my daughter, I knew better, I learned more. And she was in her rear facing seat to four and a half when she also same.

 

00;43;35;21 – 00;43;48;18

Dr. Mona

And so yeah, tell people listening why that I mean, I know we talked about we already kind of mentioned something about the crash testing, but why is it that we want to keep them rear facing as long as possible from a physics, physics and development standpoint.

 

00;43;48;20 – 00;44;10;24

Michelle Pratt

So, you know, you can you can talk to this way better than I can. But and in general, a child’s body is not fully formed. It’s not fuzed together. The bones aren’t fuzed together as the muscles aren’t developed. So when we think about that tiny little infant that could not possibly even hold their body up without us doing it for them, we’ve got to now put them again in a car seat that’s going to go on a moving vehicle.

 

00;44;10;27 – 00;44;35;08

Michelle Pratt

So rear facing is allowing the child’s body to kind of be cradled by the car seat. If you just think about like you’re sitting in a recliner, right. And your body is kind of encased in that recliner, your head, neck and spine are fully supported. And that really is the number one reason, because our babies and toddlers don’t have fully developed bodies yet and won’t for many, many years.

 

00;44;35;10 – 00;44;53;22

Michelle Pratt

And their heads are disproportionately large. Yes, that is a lot of pressure that could be put on the neck and spine in the event of a car crash, when rear facing, our kids are going to kind of fall back into the shell of the car seat, having their head, neck and spine fully supported. The harness is going to do that.

 

00;44;53;22 – 00;45;15;27

Michelle Pratt

The car seat show is going to do that because of rebound. It’s going to do that when we flip them forward, facing the reason we want to wait until they outgrow that rear facing seat is because of their development. Now, when we’re forward facing, think about it the same way. When you buckle yourself up in in the car, right, your head is going to fly forward.

 

00;45;16;00 – 00;45;37;27

Michelle Pratt

And now I if I have a really disproportionate size, head to the rest of my body. I have an underdeveloped neck and spine and I’m hitting significant crash forces. The body is just simply not built yet to be able to do that. So we say minimum age to minimum age two. I in general tell people to have a goal of age four in mind.

 

00;45;37;27 – 00;45;58;00

Michelle Pratt

Yeah, because that’s what I yeah, I like the idea of like when I have my little itty bitty baby, you’re not like, what am I going to be done with this? Okay. You’re not for a very long time. And let’s just plan on having them, you know, with facing that way where you’re facing until they’re four because, yeah, if you get it in your head and you don’t have this two in mind, then there’s nothing to talk about.

 

00;45;58;02 – 00;46;17;04

Michelle Pratt

Like it’s like your kid can’t say anything other. It’s like, no, we’re going at least a four until they outgrow the seat. If you do switch them after two, they are still safe. I don’t want people to be panicked that, like, I am endangering my child. They are safer the longer you rear face them.

 

00;46;17;07 – 00;46;32;20

Dr. Mona

We should change your handle to safer in the seat. Just, you know, I just I believe that and like I’m going to use the example of like to speak about the why. I also say for like I say let’s do max out, but please try to get to at least four. We maxed out. We didn’t max out. We switched him at four a little over four.

 

00;46;32;23 – 00;46;57;16

Dr. Mona

And from a from a head growth standpoint, I want to talk about that thing that you mentioned. Yeah. Your child’s head growth is growing exponentially in the first four years, and it does significantly slow down. So a child’s head size at the age of 4 to 5 is the head shape and size of their adult adult. So if you’re thinking about that disproportion thing that you just mentioned, that is why I also think that let’s get to four, because at least by four the head’s shape is proportional to the body.

 

00;46;57;22 – 00;47;18;18

Dr. Mona

We have stronger neck you know, neck or less neck and laxity. All of that is better. So I agree that I also say let’s get to four. Now. I the only time, the only time that I even say, hey, let’s do book. Forward facing it too. Like I’ve had situations where families really struggling with motion sickness and like rear facing is a disaster.

 

00;47;18;18 – 00;47;37;08

Dr. Mona

And they and we, you know, sometimes being able to forward face and focus on something in the distance has really helped. And then it’s a real conversation of, hey, like you just said, you’re not endangering your child. Is it safest to be rear facing? Yes. But are you cleaning up vomit every time and we’ve tried everything else. Then what is the choice that we’re going to make?

 

00;47;37;08 – 00;47;56;18

Dr. Mona

But that is a conscious choice. We do that as a team. They understand the benefit and risk and they’re they’re good. Like they’re they’re still my patients. But I love you, Michelle. Because that same thing. Right. You’re not saying you’re horrible. And I hear that messaging like I hear that messaging. I was forward facing it too. And I’m not saying that either.

 

00;47;56;18 – 00;48;11;18

Dr. Mona

I’ve never said that my husband wanted to forward face my son before, for. So he did it in his car and in my car. I kept it until four and I wasn’t. I was like, listen, it’s not what I want, but when I’m driving him, I want him to be rear facing and he’s like all the other kids are forward facing.

 

00;48;11;18 – 00;48;30;10

Dr. Mona

Like, why are you so scared? I’m like, I just think it’s I want it to be the most optimal. And that’s what I want to do. And I love that. It wasn’t judgment towards him. It wasn’t like, you’re a horrible father. It was like, hey, we have different opinions on this, but I’m choosing in my car when I transport him, I want to do the most optimal thing I can do.

 

00;48;30;14 – 00;48;33;21

Dr. Mona

But you can. You’re, you know, just keep it until two for sure. I love that.

 

00;48;33;21 – 00;48;57;04

Michelle Pratt

Messaging. And you have to look at I mean, we’re managing a lot of things in the car, right? I know, so motion sickness, you know, is a consideration if we’ve tried everything else. So it works. For some it doesn’t work for others. Yes. But there’s also, you know, if your kid is, sitting next to another child and we need it won’t fit and we have to figure that out, you know, or you have a handicapped caretaker.

 

00;48;57;04 – 00;49;11;18

Michelle Pratt

And so we need to look at it this way or you it is a holistic view. I always tell people, I’m going to give you the baseline. I’m going to give you the bare minimum that I am not going to let you go. I would never turn a kid before age two. There is a solution for every yes, every situation.

 

00;49;11;20 – 00;49;29;15

Michelle Pratt

The age two. I’m going to give you a hard line after that. If you’ve got to make decisions based on. Yeah, let’s have the goal of age for a mind. But other factors might come into play. And that is where I think at saving the seat. We’re different than some, some others. Because I get it. I am a mom.

 

00;49;29;15 – 00;49;48;21

Michelle Pratt

I know what it’s like if you are, you know, same with mirrors, right? And I think that’s one of the things like these aftermarket products, you know, I if you are constantly going to be turning around to look and make sure your babies breathing or stick your hand in front of their face, get a mirror, it’s safer. Yeah.

 

00;49;48;22 – 00;50;12;24

Michelle Pratt

Like, yeah, it’s it there is, there is some gray and judgment area in child passenger safety when it comes to those kind of things. When it’s best case, you know, safest crash related. Those are hard lines for me. Placement of the chest clip, shoulder straps because it doesn’t matter. It’s not contingent on anything else. Those we can do and we can do them well and easily.

 

00;50;12;24 – 00;50;21;04

Michelle Pratt

And they they don’t take a lot of you just got to know it and then you do it. There’s other things that are a little bit more in the parent judgment.

 

00;50;21;06 – 00;50;36;05

Dr. Mona

And I mean I mean, there are let’s be honest. I mean, I think it’s fair to add we’re not again, this is not judgment. This is that let’s talk about the aftermarket product of the the devices that people are putting so that their kids head doesn’t fall forward, which is to me, I, I’m very adamant that.

 

00;50;36;09 – 00;50;37;01

Michelle Pratt

It’s not too hard.

 

00;50;37;05 – 00;50;54;16

Dr. Mona

I know like hard line. Yes. Like heartland explain. But the amount of people that messaged me about that. Right. And I’m sure you used to get that a lot too. And you’ve been very vocal talking about those kind of products, right? Like, we want their head to be able to kind of move as long as your chest clips and everything else is installed, why are things like that?

 

00;50;54;16 – 00;51;12;00

Dr. Mona

And if people are not understanding this is a device that, like, it attaches to the side of the car seat and almost looks like a headband that goes over like the forehead of the child. And so it doesn’t allow their their head to fall forward. But we do. We both don’t like it. But if you wanna explain, like why that’s not an ideal situation and it is a hard line for me to.

 

00;51;12;06 – 00;51;31;22

Michelle Pratt

Yeah, yeah, it’s absolutely a hard line. And I think if I say these next two words, everyone’s going to be like, it’s a hard line for them too. And the reason is internal decapitation. That’s why it’s a hard line. If. Yeah, if crash forces are significant enough and a child is not able to let their neck flex and move with the speeds, as you know, there’s three stages of a car crash.

 

00;51;31;22 – 00;51;49;29

Michelle Pratt

If it’s not able to go through all of that within their body, then worth risking death. Like. Yeah, I mean, that is that serious. I try very hard not to scare people, but yeah, that is something that it’s like, just don’t do it. I think we tend to look at car seats a lot, just like with, oh, my kid’s legs are so long, why are they rear facing?

 

00;51;50;01 – 00;52;28;06

Michelle Pratt

You’re looking at it as if you were sitting in that seat. An adult body fully grown. And now you see how our kids sit. You see what their crazy positions are getting in for hours at a time. Me getting on and off the floor in a crisscross position is hard now. Yeah. For them, they’re popping all around. So adding products that alter the positioning in the seat or the routing of things through the seat, or how the seat was designed and how your child’s body is expected to move in it based on a crap ton of testing and data.

 

00;52;28;09 – 00;52;46;14

Michelle Pratt

Those are always a hard line. No, you don’t do it. You don’t need to do it. By the way, a kid’s head falling forward. You might not like it. You may not like to look at it, but if a child with a fully formed ability to hold their head up will move if they’re the ball. So let them flop.

 

00;52;46;14 – 00;52;49;11

Michelle Pratt

You see the people in the airplanes right where their heads are like.

 

00;52;49;14 – 00;52;52;20

Dr. Mona

Yeah, exactly. But the bobblehead, the bobblehead situation.

 

00;52;52;23 – 00;52;55;12

Michelle Pratt

Yeah, they’re moving it because it’s uncomfortable.

 

00;52;55;14 – 00;53;14;05

Dr. Mona

I mean, thank you. I want to reiterate the physics of this, right. We talked about how like, you’re like, you probably know better the physics, but. So my husband’s in New York, right. And he sees a lot of and I’m using this as an example. Please don’t drink and drive. But this is this example makes sense. So in car crashes the reality and you probably have heard this, is that the drunk driver rarely gets any injury.

 

00;53;14;05 – 00;53;41;13

Dr. Mona

He walks out. He or she walks out of the car crash. The other people have more injury. Why? Usually it’s because that drunk driver wasn’t coherent enough and their body is very lax. So they’re taking the motion of the car crash and not absorbing it. Similar concept here kids. If they are, if they’re strapped back in, if their head is strapped back in the physical force and the energy has to go somewhere, it’s going to hurt their body, you need a little bit of laxity in the neck.

 

00;53;41;17 – 00;54;03;10

Dr. Mona

Not obviously. You’re not wanting them to fall forward like in a forward facing car seat, but there needs to be a little give in their body so that they’re not absorbing that shock of an accident. It’s kind of like if you are if you’re in a car crash and you see a car coming to you and you brace yourself and your body gets very tense, you’re more likely to have injury than letting where the seatbelt letting that happen.

 

00;54;03;10 – 00;54;20;26

Dr. Mona

And I know that sounds scary, but it’s an important understanding of just how physics works. Like our body, the energy has to go somewhere. And if it’s if we’re strapped in with these aftermarket products that hold their head back, it’s going to absorb in their neck and their head. And like we use that term internal decapitation because it’s real.

 

00;54;20;26 – 00;54;42;11

Dr. Mona

Like we don’t want that. We want their head to move where it’s going to move in the car crash. But going back to what Michelle just said, making sure that everything’s strapped accordingly so that they’re not moving out of the car seat or you know, falling out of it and stuff like that. So it’s it matters. Like it really has to do a lot with the the forces of a car crash not having an impact on the body.

 

00;54;42;11 – 00;55;03;27

Dr. Mona

And I think it’s such that my husband tells me it’s all the time and I’m like, yeah, makes sense because they’re completely lax. They’re like drunk, so they don’t like their body. So let me take this shooter and a salad. I mean, I don’t it’s such a sad reality, but how we can do that in a, in a safe way is like being installed correctly and like and not adding anything else on and just understanding that doing this is going to be the best thing.

 

00;55;03;27 – 00;55;05;11

Dr. Mona

So we don’t have major injury.

 

00;55;05;13 – 00;55;29;26

Michelle Pratt

Yeah, I mean, I think that whole distribution of crash forces, which I didn’t really mention, we were talking about rear facing. But even if you think about that five point harness, it’s literally being strapped around the five strongest points of the body. And that is so exactly that. So the crash forces can distribute evenly. And if we do anything to alter that position, then we are we’re becoming the crash testers do.

 

00;55;29;26 – 00;55;32;16

Dr. Mona

Yes I don’t yeah, I don’t want to do a crash.

 

00;55;32;18 – 00;55;35;03

Michelle Pratt

Yeah, yeah I mean it’s like yeah thank you.

 

00;55;35;05 – 00;55;35;13

Dr. Mona

Yeah.

 

00;55;35;13 – 00;55;54;09

Michelle Pratt

So yeah if it, if it goes inside the car seat or directly on the car, see, it alters the child’s body. Or the direct installation in any way, then it’s, it’s a no. And as always, this goes back to, like, read your manual. Yeah. Yeah. Manual is going to tell you what you can and cannot use. And the manuals are never going to say don’t use a head thing because they don’t.

 

00;55;54;12 – 00;55;56;27

Michelle Pratt

What why would you ever use a head thing.

 

00;55;57;02 – 00;56;04;13

Dr. Mona

Right. Like that’s not something that’s part of the like. It’s not it’s an after product aftermarket product that’s not meant for that car seat. And it’s the most.

 

00;56;04;13 – 00;56;04;25

Michelle Pratt

Hated like.

 

00;56;04;25 – 00;56;21;24

Dr. Mona

Crazy. Yeah, yeah it is. It’s all and it’s all, you know, all these and all these safety issues. I mean, we talk, we’re talking about car seats. But even with safe sleep, like, I see all these things that are available on Etsy and like Amazon and I’m like, it’s it’s not regulated to a level that we need. And I need consumers listening to this to understand that.

 

00;56;21;24 – 00;56;30;27

Dr. Mona

Right. Like, this is why these episodes are so important. Because you could get suckered into like, oh, my kid needs this because my friend has it, but you don’t, you don’t need that. Or it’s like.

 

00;56;30;27 – 00;56;38;08

Michelle Pratt

On the end cap right next to all the car seats. And you’re like, yeah, of course I need those shoulder strap. Had they be cute little bear on him, why wouldn’t I use those?

 

00;56;38;08 – 00;57;03;07

Dr. Mona

Oh, no. Oh, hello. Michelle, this is so awesome. Like, we can do, like, part two through eight about all this stuff and also just chat about being social media creators. But, I adore you again. Thank you so much for all this information. I just feel I feel like I already learned I already knew a lot of this stuff, but just hearing it again, I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I’m going to tell my families and I’m empowered to keep keep educating.

 

00;57;03;13 – 00;57;07;06

Dr. Mona

But what would be your final message for everyone tuning in today?

 

00;57;07;09 – 00;57;31;11

Michelle Pratt

You know, I think they’re probably two. One is the biggest mistake people make is moving their kids from one stage to the next too soon. So slow it down. You don’t get an award when you get to the finish line. We want to keep our kids in a car seat and then in a booster and have in your head that it’s going to be between 10 and 12 years old before they’re going to be before that bulky whatever isn’t in your car anymore.

 

00;57;31;11 – 00;57;51;29

Michelle Pratt

So just embrace it. It’s part of parenting. I think the other thing is, like we’ve alluded to before, this is all controllable. We can control what’s being done in our car and it isn’t that hard. I more and more, I’m getting away from some of the messaging where it’s so overwhelming and it’s so confusing. It is if you don’t know what you’re doing.

 

00;57;52;01 – 00;58;05;00

Michelle Pratt

But that’s why we exist. We’re going to help you know exactly what you’re supposed to do. So then you can say, I can check this off my mental To-Do list. My kid is as safe as possible in the car. Now I can move on to the 800 other things that are on my free list.

 

00;58;05;02 – 00;58;20;22

Dr. Mona

Yeah. Oh, thank you so much. And like I mentioned, I, I know a lot of my listeners probably already follow you or did when they were in that season of needing it more or whatever it is. But please, I want you to share where people can go to stay connected. The resources that you have at safe in the seat, how you’re helping everyone.

 

00;58;20;22 – 00;58;27;15

Dr. Mona

Because I know you’ve obviously evolved since we first met six years ago, so if you can share, then I’ll be adding all of this to my show notes.

 

00;58;27;17 – 00;58;47;26

Michelle Pratt

Yes. So, unlike yourself that is able to be in all the places which I’m always in awe of, creators that are able to, like, do all of these things. Instagram is still our main like social hub. So at safe in the seat there we have YouTube videos as well that can be helpful though, you know not as many as we used to though we post YouTube shorts a decent amount.

 

00;58;47;28 – 00;59;08;25

Michelle Pratt

Yeah, from a resources perspective, I am most excited about some things we’ve launched recently because they’re very low price points, very accessible. So talk to a tech is one of them where you can ask a question which allows you to also send in video or photo, and that’s never been done before. We have to have that kind of behind a paywall for liability.

 

00;59;08;28 – 00;59;36;28

Michelle Pratt

So, one of my direct people that work on my team, that our child passenger safety technicians are helping people all the time with getting like those to say, I need help with this, or can you check this installation? Or can you look at my baby before we ride home from a hospital or whatever the other one? Is safe to switch, which is a transition guide, and it is a 70 page, but it goes from when you are expecting all the way through to a 13 riding in the front seat.

 

00;59;37;00 – 00;59;55;24

Michelle Pratt

So there’s, you know, there’s no booster, but there’s also no booster. And now you’re 13, you’re riding in front it. So it takes you through the entire progression. And you can reference the, the different sections when it makes sense to you. And then you can get a high level overview. And that’s been really helping a lot of caregivers out a lot as well.

 

00;59;55;26 – 00;59;58;19

Michelle Pratt

Everything’s on our website, you know, love it.

 

00;59;58;21 – 01;00;15;17

Dr. Mona

Oh, I’m going to be adding all of that, like I said. And thank you so much. This was a long time coming. Like we said, I, I’m releasing this during Child Passenger Safety Week. But of course that week is an honor of like educating and empowering people and reminding parents about and caregivers the importance of car seat safety.

 

01;00;15;23 – 01;00;34;12

Dr. Mona

But also, this is something year round that I hope every parent understands the importance of. So thank you, Michelle, from all the work for having me so far. That’s a wrap on today’s episode with Michelle Pratt from safe in the seat. I love that she brought the honesty, the relate ability, which is what she does on her Instagram page and her channels.

 

01;00;34;14 – 01;00;53;01

Dr. Mona

Our whole goal here is to give you tools that make car travel safer and less stressful. A lot of the reason why I follow Michelle is that she really does have a non-judgmental approach. We broke down the common mistakes so many of us make, even the ones Michelle and I both made, and give you simple fixes you can start using right away.

 

01;00;53;04 – 01;01;13;18

Dr. Mona

And maybe as you were listening, you thought of someone else who would need this. Maybe send this as a gentle reminder a friend about to have a baby. A grandparent who helps with school pick up, or even your partner who’s not quite as careful with the chess clip as you’d like. Share this episode with them. Sometimes it’s not about doing more, it’s about doing one small thing differently that makes all the difference in a crash.

 

01;01;13;21 – 01;01;32;26

Dr. Mona

And here’s how you can help spread the message. First, subscribe and download this episode. It’s the best way to support the show. Second, share today’s episode on your Instagram Stories and tag at the PedsDocTalk podcast and at safe in the seat. You can also share it on TikTok and Facebook will be resharing. Because the more parents who hear this, the safer kids will be.

 

01;01;32;29 – 01;01;50;04

Dr. Mona

And finally, if you’re not already, go follow Michelle at Safe in the seat. Her content is clear, relatable, and honestly, it makes you feel less alone while giving you the exact info you need. Thanks for tuning in, for showing up for your kids in this way, and for making car seat safety a priority. Every safe ride matters and you’re making this happen.

 

01;01;50;07 – 01;01;52;29

Dr. Mona

I cannot wait to chat with another guest next time on the show.