Have you ever stood in the fresh produce aisle, looking at the price tags, and felt a wave of frustration because eating “real food” feels like a financial punishment? Families are being bombarded with constant advice to eat better and healthier, but how are they supposed to keep up when national nutrition programs and rising grocery costs are moving in completely opposite directions?

In this episode, I connect with Dr. Rich Besser, former acting director of the CDC and current President and CEO of the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, to explore the deep divide in American food access and affordability. Dr. Besser shares insights from his decades-long pediatric career, explains how the politicization of public health has eroded parental trust, and provides a powerful blueprint for how everyday parents can fight back against broken systems.

• The Morality of the Noise: How modern nutrition advice has created an exhausting landscape of parental guilt over basic food choices.

• Navigating the Expert Divide: How to find evidence-based public health guidance at a time when institutional trust is fractured.

• The Evolution of Medical Science: Why changing nutritional guidelines represent advancing scientific progress rather than medical waffling.

• The Power of WIC and SNAP: How expanding federal assistance programs directly combats childhood hunger and why bureaucratic barriers are threatening access.

• Reclaiming the Cafeteria: How parents can leverage local school boards to demand fresh, less-processed school lunch programs that support kids over big agriculture.

• Why Food Deserts are Everyone’s Problem: The moral, ethical, and societal reasons we must all care about nutritional affordability, even if our own households aren’t feeling the pinch.

• Democracy as a Health Metric: The surprising, direct link between local voting, ballot initiatives, civil rights, and the physical well-being of our families.

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00;00;17;12 – 00;00;52;11

Dr. Rich Besser

You know, we are the wealthiest nation on the planet of. How can we accept, that there are so many millions of people in America, who, don’t know from day to day whether they’re going to have a how they’re going to have any meal, let alone a healthy meal. And we have the ability as a nation to, to, to eliminate that, that problem, I think, from a, from a moral, ethical perspective, it’s absolutely critical.

 

00;00;52;13 – 00;01;13;20

Dr. Mona

Hello, doctor. Mona here. Pediatrician. Mom, host of the PedsDocTalk podcast quick. Thank you. Before we jump in, this show only works because you keep tuning in, subscribing and passing episodes along to your loved ones. So thank you so much for that. Okay? Be honest with me. Why does eating well suddenly feel like a luxury instead of the basic thing every kid deserves?

 

00;01;13;22 – 00;01;41;00

Dr. Mona

Why do the rules around what counts as healthy keep changing depending on who is talking and why? Does something as simple as school lunch turn into a political fight instead of just, you know, feeding kids, which we all can agree is something we should do? I’m asking these questions now because it’s not just about food. Just last week, a new executive order reshuffled the childhood vaccine schedule, and the reaction from pediatricians and public health leaders have been loud, and I have commented on it as well.

 

00;01;41;02 – 00;02;04;02

Dr. Mona

Doctor Rich Besser, today’s guest called it out directly. He has spent over 30 years practicing pediatrics and says he has never seen anything like a president rewriting a vaccine schedule that took decades of research and expert review to build. He does not think this order should hold up, and he put it bluntly this executive order has no medical or moral leg to stand on, and I can’t agree more.

 

00;02;04;05 – 00;02;23;27

Dr. Mona

That is the pattern I want you to notice. Vaccines, food, school, lunch. They keep getting caught in the same tug of war over who gets to decide what is best for kids. Today’s guest is doctor Rich Besser. He is the president and CEO of the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, the largest private foundation in the country devoted entirely to health.

 

00;02;23;29 – 00;02;57;04

Dr. Mona

He previously served as acting director of the CDC and as chief health and medical editor for ABC news. He sits on multiple boards, including Howard University’s board of trustees, and he has spent decades advocating for healthy communities, accountable public health systems, and racial justice. We’re getting into the real story behind food and policy in this country, why programs like Snap and Wig matters so much more than people realize what’s actually happening with school lunches, and why the fight over what our kids eat is really a fight about who our systems are built to protect.

 

00;02;57;06 – 00;03;19;05

Dr. Mona

This is an episode for you and for everyone in your community, so stick around and if this episode gives you something to think about, subscribe, download and share it on social. Tag us at the Pizza Doctor podcast, Pizza Doc Talk and our foundation so more families can hear this.

 

00;03;19;07 – 00;03;23;19

Dr. Mona

Doctor Rich, thank you so much for taking the time out of your day to join me today.

 

00;03;23;21 – 00;03;27;24

Dr. Rich Besser

Doctor Murray, it is, it’s great to be here. I’m really looking forward to the conversation.

 

00;03;27;28 – 00;03;49;29

Dr. Mona

Why I’m so excited about this is obviously you’re leading, you know, right now a huge philanthropic, philosophical organization that I love connecting with, collaborating with the work that you all are doing are is phenomenal. And then just your expertise, right. Obviously you have been in the CDC you how you do media with ABC news. You are an advocate for things that I also am an advocate for.

 

00;03;50;04 – 00;04;12;18

Dr. Mona

And for me, this conversation is going to be so exciting because as a pediatrician, I’m always looking for ways to increase my advocacy and also educate our community on how to be a better advocates. And so my first question to you is what’s notable about where we are today in terms of the education that’s coming out there or the policies that are coming out there?

 

00;04;12;24 – 00;04;23;04

Dr. Mona

And where do you wish parents kind of can understand where we’re sitting at this intersection right now with Eat Better, eat healthier, but where there where they may be a more of a divide here.

 

00;04;23;06 – 00;04;30;21

Dr. Rich Besser

Yeah. Well, thank you for that question. Before. Before I answer that question, I wanted to add a couple of things to my identity.

 

00;04;30;27 – 00;04;31;20

Dr. Mona

I love it.

 

00;04;32;09 – 00;05;10;06

Dr. Rich Besser

I, am a dad. My wife and I raised two boys who are who are now, adults. And I practice general pediatric for over 30 years. And with all these other jobs, I’ve always thought about myself, as a pediatrician. And I’ve always tried to keep in mind the conversations that I would have with parents who were always trying to do the right thing for their kids, in spite of, systems and things in their lives that increasingly made that hard, hard to do.

 

00;05;10;08 – 00;05;39;18

Dr. Rich Besser

And so the question about the the current moment, I think about a conversation I might be having with a parent in this, in this moment, I always I always worked in community clinics. Something called Federally Qualified Health Centers, which provided support for a lower income, people in America, some without health insurance, with with Medicaid and each it was usually mom, sometimes dad, but usually moms I was talking to.

 

00;05;39;25 – 00;06;08;03

Dr. Rich Besser

They wanted to do the right thing. But they were faced with situations where doing the right thing might be more expensive than they had the dollars to do. Getting information about the what the right thing is to do, has become increasingly complicated. You know, in my early days as a pediatrician, there weren’t so many, voices coming at you telling you, oh, you need to do this.

 

00;06;08;03 – 00;06;33;20

Dr. Rich Besser

You need to do that. What they say is wrong. What they say is right. It’s a lot to, to to handle. And so I think that that the cost of just basic life is one of the big challenges right now. The, the way that information has become so politicized. It used to be that there was a set of facts, there was a set of things that we all kind of thought that we knew some of the more of.

 

00;06;33;20 – 00;07;02;06

Dr. Rich Besser

Right. But we at least we aligned behind them. And there might be disagreement about how you what you should do with those facts. But we weren’t disagreeing, you know, about fundamental things like our vaccines. Good for your health. Is it good to, to to eat meat or not eat meat? Is it. There were things that we kind of that we kind of knew and we could talk about without them becoming so political and so, so hot.

 

00;07;02;06 – 00;07;22;11

Dr. Rich Besser

And right now it feels like the world is divided up into these little camps. Yeah. And everyone’s getting their information from the people they trust or the people who have access to them. And it’s really hard to, to know what to do. So that’s, that’s the context that we’re, that we’re in. That’s so, so, so, so challenging.

 

00;07;22;18 – 00;07;46;15

Dr. Mona

I could not agree more. As I mentioned to you before we started recording, I never realized that I would be on social media in the space that I am right now educating. And a lot of that reason I joined was little droplets of the sort of misinformation, you know, nuggets that I was getting, whether it was about sleep, feeding, how to feed, don’t feed your kid this, don’t do this.

 

00;07;46;15 – 00;08;10;16

Dr. Mona

And as I’ve been on social media, you know, I’ve seen it even more because, of course, social media gives people platforms that may not or should not have those platforms, as we, me and you both know. And one of the things that that’s being lost and I think you can agree maybe to this, from what you’ve seen in your career, is that there is some truth to some of the conversation, like I’m going to use the example of like red dye, right?

 

00;08;10;16 – 00;08;40;18

Dr. Mona

Like we see red dye. Do I want my kid eating everything with red dye, processed foods, all of that? Absolutely not. But is the occasional red vines is the occasional drink that has, you know, red dye. My daughter loves maraschino cherries like she’s obsessed with maraschino cherries, which has red dye. Is the occasional use of that going to lead my kid down a path of unhealthy and that is where I feel parents are feeling so overwhelmed because, like you said, everyone wants to do the right thing.

 

00;08;40;22 – 00;09;02;14

Dr. Mona

And not only are things just more expensive, there’s just so much more noise that’s telling them, well, if you do that, your kid’s going to have X, Y, and Z. If you do that, you’re a bad parent. So there’s this morality around food and around nutrition that’s been created. So you mentioned it beautifully. Parents are getting advice from everywhere social media, schools, doctors, friends.

 

00;09;02;14 – 00;09;19;09

Dr. Mona

And it’s not always the evidence or you know, based on the things that we used to know, which is, okay, here’s what the science knows. Here’s what we know by just, experience. So how do you suggest parents sorting through that conflicting information about food and health, wherever it may be coming from?

 

00;09;19;11 – 00;09;46;29

Dr. Rich Besser

It’s really hard. And and I would say the advice I give people now is different than the advice that I was giving even five, five years ago. What what I, what I like to say to, to, to parents is if you have the opportunity to have a relationship with a health care provider, a pediatrician, family doctor, a nurse practitioner, that relationship can help you sort through this noise.

 

00;09;46;29 – 00;10;11;25

Dr. Rich Besser

Yeah. And that’s really, really important. You know, unfortunately, we’re seeing this administration, taking that opportunity away from more and more people, millions of people losing access through through, cuts to, to Medicaid, you know, trillion dollar cuts over the next decade to Medicaid and Snap. But if you have a health care provider, talk to them about it.

 

00;10;11;27 – 00;10;38;21

Dr. Rich Besser

If you feel that you can’t ask your your child’s doctor or nurse a question about, is it okay to do this? Is eating a red line going, going to mean that their life is now gone off of the edge? If if you don’t feel you can ask that question, then if you have the opportunity to look for someone else to be your child’s provider, look for someone who you feel comfortable asking those those questions to.

 

00;10;38;23 – 00;11;21;02

Dr. Rich Besser

I used to say to people, you know, there’s some really good government websites you can go to to get your questions answered. I worked at the CDC for 13 years, and the CDC is still full of hardworking, hardworking people who are committed to public service, who are committed to doing the right thing. Unfortunately, the political layer, the political corruption of of of the agency is so extreme, that unless you really have a lot of, expertise, it’s very hard to sort out what on their website is, is fact and what is absolute fiction and lies.

 

00;11;21;05 – 00;11;39;04

Dr. Rich Besser

And so I don’t steer people there anymore. The American Academy of Pediatrics, has some good sites and good information if you want some, some more detail. But, you know, I would start with, the person that you are trusting to to help take care of your, your child.

 

00;11;39;11 – 00;12;03;20

Dr. Mona

And, you know, so interesting. Doctor Besser. Is that I, I was in that space, you know, the 12 years of outpatient pediatrics. I know you did 20 years of outpatient pediatrics. And when I went into pediatrics, you know, when I was, high school student, medical student, and I had my mentors in health care, I looked at how they communicated the time that they had, and I was like, this is going to be what it is for me.

 

00;12;03;20 – 00;12;28;16

Dr. Mona

I’m going to be able to be that foundation. Teach the families about how healthy eating doesn’t have to always be about cost. And I’m a doe. So I was very interested in this mind body approach. And then as you go into it, right as we see the current health care model, what I’ve seen, you know, is that even the well-meaning doctors, the ones that want to have these conversations, are feeling pushed or pulled with time.

 

00;12;28;20 – 00;12;50;09

Dr. Mona

And I always tell my community that right. Like in my heart of hearts, I believe every general pediatrician wants to talk to their families about healthy sleep, healthy nutrition, balanced education around that. What can we do here? Because that’s why I went into it. And now the system in general. And also to be quite fair, the politicization of all of this.

 

00;12;50;09 – 00;13;10;10

Dr. Mona

Right. The, doctors are not to be trusted, and it doesn’t feel good to be in that situation. It has been so hard to be a pediatrician right now. And I’m not asking for like, oh, Doctor Mona, for pediatricians, it’s just a reality that, like me and my colleagues are seeing that sort of reality of, hey, we want to do this good work.

 

00;13;10;12 – 00;13;31;29

Dr. Mona

This good work is being harder to do because of insurances cutting our times with patients. And so, like you said, connecting and finding is the gem. And then finding the other resources. I created this platform to be that resource, right. That I tell my colleagues. I’m like, hey, if you don’t have time, tell me what you want me to create a video on and I promise you I will keep it balance.

 

00;13;32;04 – 00;13;42;27

Dr. Mona

I will provide the evidence and you can just direct them to me like I’m trying to be that sort of specialist, right? That social media specialist. I can help that. But it is so hard that.

 

00;13;42;29 – 00;14;07;12

Dr. Rich Besser

You know, it is really hard time is is is getting shorter. Yeah. In terms of the time you have to, to be with the patient. And some of the questions that patients come in with weren’t ever questions before because there’s been built into the system. The sense of you should not trust anyone, who says that they are an expert?

 

00;14;07;23 – 00;14;27;28

Dr. Rich Besser

Because what makes them an expert? Well, what should make them an expert is that they’ve had the training and understand the science to be able to provide that advice. But there’s been an undermining of that whole idea that there actually is someone who may know more about a topic than you that can help inform what it is that, that, that you want to do.

 

00;14;27;28 – 00;14;50;10

Dr. Rich Besser

And that’s, that’s really challenging. You know, the, the, you know, social media, you know, when I, when I left CDC and I went to ABC news, I was there as their medical editor for about eight years. Twitter was really taking off. And I started, a Twitter chat every week. And we would cover a topic.

 

00;14;50;10 – 00;15;32;04

Dr. Rich Besser

I would bring in experts around that topic. We would get, Twitter influencers on to help amplify, magnify. And I thought, wow, we are really forward leaning on this. The world, the landscape is so totally different from what it was, at that at that time. And it is, I think, critical that we identify, social media influencers, bloggers who are evidence based, who people can then look to and say, hey, this is actually someone who is listening, who is taking my questions seriously, who is treating me with respect?

 

00;15;32;15 – 00;16;04;20

Dr. Rich Besser

And and is it approach you with humility? You know, I would say that at least half of what I learned about nutrition as a medical student and a pediatric resident is no longer the recommendations that we make to for for children, for babies, for young children, for because the science has progressed. And so it’s so important that those of us in the medical community, the public health community, when we make a recommendation, we’re clear about what it is.

 

00;16;04;20 – 00;16;22;29

Dr. Rich Besser

We know what it is we think we know and what it is that is our best judgment and let people know that as we learn more, some of the things that we’re recommending now are going to change. And that’s a good thing. It means science is advancing. It doesn’t mean we’re waffling. It doesn’t mean we don’t know what we’re talking about.

 

00;16;22;29 – 00;16;46;06

Dr. Rich Besser

It’s like, that’s how science works. There’s something that that you think is the right thing. You do this research, you do this studies to find out, and then you can be more firm in your in your judgment. But the world as we know it now, whenever there’s a change in a recommendation, there are people who are waiting to throw you under the bus rather than to say, wow, this system is working the way it should.

 

00;16;46;08 – 00;17;06;08

Dr. Mona

I feel that, and, you know, I think a lot about the introduction of allergenic foods, right? For a long time delay, delay, delay. And then obviously we through the research and understanding, which makes sense. It’s practicing medicine for a reason, right? We learn as we go. And the human body is so complex. So of course we’re going to see changes and recommendations changes.

 

00;17;06;08 – 00;17;27;04

Dr. Mona

That’s why I love being a doctor. So much. Right. Like I if there’s never a dull moment in the work I do. But like that recommendation. Right. Delay. And now we all know and it should be the case that early introductions I think a good example and it could be that well you made a mistake about that. What I hear is what you just said is that, well, you all were wrong about this.

 

00;17;27;04 – 00;17;54;08

Dr. Mona

And so how can we trust you that you’re not wrong about this? And I think from a clinician standpoint, I always try to not use absolute terms. You know, whenever I’m talking about things like vaccines or anything, I’m saying, you know, hey, this is what we know. The benefits outweigh the risk versus 100% safe. Even though I know that they’re great, the benefits greatly outweigh the risks, because that creates this understanding that, yes, I want my kid to get this because the benefits are there are there risks to anything?

 

00;17;54;10 – 00;18;01;05

Dr. Mona

We do? 100%. But I want the best for my child, just like my doctor does. And I think that is a very valid point.

 

00;18;01;08 – 00;18;25;03

Dr. Rich Besser

Yeah, I think that that’s it’s so important. And it’s not just like the disclaimer that’s at the bottom of the TV ad for every drug. Yeah, yeah, it’s a real honest, relationship where this is this is what we know now. I think you’re right. You’re example of of allergens. You know, when you, you know, holding when I first learned, it’s like, you know, no eggs, no orange juice, no nuts, no nothing till one year.

 

00;18;25;06 – 00;18;53;00

Dr. Rich Besser

And, it’s like, wow, we’ve learned a lot since then. And we always started with, with, rice cereal is the first food because it was so easily digested as, like, yeah, it’s converted immediately to sugar. Yeah. And I was like, oh, so the humility piece is there and it’s I really think that it’s developing that relationship, which is why I am so concerned.

 

00;18;53;00 – 00;19;05;24

Dr. Rich Besser

And that’s the foundation. We’re so concerned, with the, the increasing number of people who are not, not given the opportunity to develop a relationship with a, with a trusted health provider.

 

00;19;05;27 – 00;19;22;12

Dr. Mona

And I think that leads me to the next question, which, of course, a lot of the work that’s being done is advocacy, affordability, accessibility. You know, not only in health care, but, for example, food access. So what’s kind of been happening with policies that affect affordable food access, like with Snap and which.

 

00;19;22;16 – 00;19;54;07

Dr. Rich Besser

I wouldn’t say it’s a worst case scenario, but it sure is pretty bad. We know that that snap, is incredibly effective at addressing hunger in America. When, snap was expanded and access to snap was expanded during Covid, we saw a dramatic drop in hunger among children, in our country and adults. What Snap isn’t though, is a great nutrition program.

 

00;19;55;03 – 00;20;30;26

Dr. Rich Besser

It’s it’s designed to, to combat hunger. Weak on the other hand, has been shown to be a terrific nutrition program. And children who are enrolled at work, at birth, there are incredible health benefits over the course of their life. What we’re seeing now is that more and more barriers are being put up in terms of people getting access to those services that they are they are entitled to, you know, the the administration talks all the time about waste, fraud and abuse.

 

00;20;30;28 – 00;20;57;05

Dr. Rich Besser

Well, it’s a mantra, but it’s not the reality. There’s very little waste, fraud and abuse in these programs. And by putting in these, these requirements for, recertification so frequently, what you see is people who qualify for these programs who are entitled, aren’t able to meet the the frequent documentation requirements. And so they lose those services. And if you’re losing Snap, you’re more likely to be hungry.

 

00;20;57;05 – 00;21;26;22

Dr. Rich Besser

If you’re not getting into work, you’re more likely to to have a gap in terms of your nutrition. So that’s one big area, the area where I think that there’s real opportunity for parents to do a lot of advocacy is around the school lunch program. You know, because, well, another thing we saw during Covid, when more and more states went to universal school lunches is that children’s nutrition and health improved their ability to function in class improved.

 

00;21;26;24 – 00;21;49;20

Dr. Rich Besser

And what you did in those programs was you remove some of the stigma around being having to to certify that your income is at a certain level. In order to get that school lunch, you were able to ensure that every child in that school had access to a school lunch. What needs to happen, though? You know, the school lunch program is administered through the Department of Agriculture.

 

00;21;49;22 – 00;22;16;15

Dr. Rich Besser

And their approach to the school lunch program is more one of supporting big agriculture in America than it is about promoting the health of children in America. And so you know, we see more and more schools that don’t have a kitchen, that can’t prepare a meal that has to give you this packaged meal. That is more likely to be highly processed foods.

 

00;22;16;17 – 00;22;39;15

Dr. Rich Besser

We’re seeing the administration cutting back on and not expanding programs that were bringing real food from farms in the schools so that kids were getting more fruits, more vegetables, more whole grains, getting exposed to those in earlier age. You know, we know from pediatrics that I think it’s a child has to try something about eight times before they develop the taste for it.

 

00;22;39;15 – 00;23;12;22

Dr. Rich Besser

Yeah, that’s a lot of times schools get a very upset about food waste and no one wants a lot of food waste. But some of that waste is kids trying something those those first seven times before really it really sticks. And so if we can build into our our school lunch program, appropriate funding levels so that the meal can actually be one that is more identifiable food, you know, fresh fruits and vegetables in there, then we’re going to see an improvement in children’s health.

 

00;23;12;22 – 00;23;32;17

Dr. Rich Besser

And parents, I think, are in a perfect position to advocate for that. You know, go in, you know, if you’re able to take the time to go to your your cafeteria and see what the lunch is, then go to your school board and say, yeah, I want our kids to eat something that I would want to eat. Yeah.

 

00;23;32;28 – 00;23;51;09

Dr. Rich Besser

And, and, you know, get it, get, get the, the cost of the meal up from about a dollar to $4 and have it be something that that’s really there for a lot of children in America. The healthiest meal that they get is their school lunch. Yeah. So let’s let’s make it something we can all be proud of.

 

00;23;51;09 – 00;24;03;00

Dr. Rich Besser

That really promotes the health of of of children and, you know, the health that will if you have a healthy child and who has healthy eating habits that will follow them through the rest of their life.

 

00;24;03;02 – 00;24;21;08

Dr. Mona

I love what you said about parental advocacy. You know, I, I think parents forget that. And I, I feel like there might be so many other layers to that because I want to give the example that my son goes to a private school and they there were some meals there that I just wasn’t thrilled with. Right? I was like, you know what?

 

00;24;21;08 – 00;24;40;20

Dr. Mona

Like, can we have other options here? Not that I think, again, this is not a hierarchy of food. It’s that can we create something more balanced that has a protein, a vegetable, a carb, you know, and it’s something that is like, you know, the nice the, the my plate, like just have the combination. And they actually sent out a survey and I was like, I’m on it.

 

00;24;40;20 – 00;25;00;21

Dr. Mona

Like I’m going to fill out this survey. They have all the detailed. I actually did a screenshot of the my plate and said, hey, can we provide this? And they were able to change it. Now that being said, my son goes to a private school. Do we see barriers with what you just said about the advocacy piece, for public school systems because of resources or anything like that?

 

00;25;00;21 – 00;25;12;18

Dr. Mona

And what can we do for those schools that may have pushback to parents or say, well, that’s not something we can do. To really encourage that those public school systems get those same opportunities to introduce these healthy meals.

 

00;25;12;21 – 00;25;39;01

Dr. Rich Besser

Yeah, I, I think that there is real, real opportunity, you know, there’s opportunity, to get involved at the local level, you know, voting really matters. If you look at participation in like, school board elections, it’s incredibly low. So a group of parents who really care about an issue, can have an influence and can get a seat on a school board.

 

00;25;39;01 – 00;26;05;18

Dr. Rich Besser

And those seats, are really important. A lot of the issues around, funding for schools is done at the state level. And once again, the voting for state representative state senators tends to be pretty, pretty low in terms of participation. So yeah, there’s an opportunity there to to get your voice heard and to have a count.

 

00;26;05;21 – 00;26;29;23

Dr. Mona

So a part of my platform is helping people understand that even if an issue doesn’t apply to them, that they should care, because I believe in that. Right? I know we as humans can’t care about everything and that there’s so much on our plate. But for someone listening who isn’t feeling the pinch, maybe they have a school that gives amazing lunches, or they pack lunches, or they are not on snap or wick.

 

00;26;29;25 – 00;26;34;08

Dr. Mona

Why should we all care about food affordability for our communities?

 

00;26;34;10 – 00;27;02;02

Dr. Rich Besser

Yeah, yeah, I think there are different ways, to to think about that. You know, we’re in the year where we’re, we’re celebrating the 250th anniversary of of our, of our nation. And if you think about, you know, this is the founding of our nation and the pursuit of, of of, life, liberty, pursuit of happiness and what it takes to have a just society.

 

00;27;02;04 – 00;27;27;16

Dr. Rich Besser

One of the fundamental things that should be there is that people should be able to, to, to eat, that, you know, we are the wealthiest nation on the planet. How can we accept, that there are so many millions of people in America, who, don’t know from day to day whether they’re going to have a how they’re going to have any meal, let alone a healthy meal.

 

00;27;27;23 – 00;27;59;03

Dr. Rich Besser

Yeah. And we have the ability as a nation to, to, to eliminate that, that problem, I think, from a, from a moral, ethical perspective, it’s absolutely critical from a stability of society perspective as well. If people can’t work 40 hours and, and, and earn enough money to put a decent meal on the table and a roof over their heads, then the society isn’t working for them.

 

00;27;59;06 – 00;28;30;05

Dr. Rich Besser

And why will someone want to participate in that society? It’s supported. So, you know, there there are all kinds of reasons I, I do I fund many fundamental I believe in, in, in opportunity and the importance of opportunity, and that everyone in America and around the world should have an opportunity to thrive, regardless of income or race or sexual orientation or geography where they live.

 

00;28;30;07 – 00;28;38;18

Dr. Rich Besser

These things are fundamental, in the world, it’s hard for me to imagine why someone wouldn’t care about that.

 

00;28;38;18 – 00;29;00;18

Dr. Mona

I feel this so strongly because I speak so much on my platform about parenting. Right? Like, I talk about, okay, handling discipline and limits and tantrums and all this. But in the end, the things that you mentioned, right, the food, education, access to food. And then I also put, you know, access to a health, a good education and health care.

 

00;29;00;18 – 00;29;22;10

Dr. Mona

Right. Those three things are the foundation of any society. And we both can agree to that, not only as pediatricians, but just as common sense. Right. If those if our communities are not getting access to healthy food, good quality education, health care, these are the bedrocks of a healthy foundation. And I love what you mentioned about being able to provide and want to invest back in society.

 

00;29;22;15 – 00;29;47;08

Dr. Mona

Right? Like the that is so huge, right? If we actually want to breed this capitalism machine and I bring that up. Right? America is a very capitalist society, for better or for worse. I have a lot of gripes with that. I understand why it may help in some ways, but in general it’s seeps into all of these areas and we are not allowing families to contribute or want to contribute when they are struggling.

 

00;29;47;08 – 00;30;13;03

Dr. Mona

And the stress. And what does that do for what me and you both know, it doesn’t make them available parents. And I’m not asking like you’re there all day, every day, but like emotionally available when you’re struggling with getting food on the table or what is my kid going to eat? And that impacts everybody. Like, I feel this so strongly to rich like I, I do feel honored and privileged to have the means that I do, and I’ve worked hard for that.

 

00;30;13;05 – 00;30;31;24

Dr. Mona

But that doesn’t mean the person who works 40 hours a week and is still struggling is not working hard enough. Right? Like, we need to be able to live a life where you can have a good job, a decent job, and have basic expenses met, which to be honest, was the reality 30 years ago. Yeah. And now it’s not like I think I think about it.

 

00;30;31;24 – 00;30;53;24

Dr. Mona

My parents generation were like, yep, they worked 40 hours. They had a good life. They put food on the table. We were able to take low key vacation. Stress wasn’t there. And me and you both know that stress is the number one killer of everything, right? It’s it impacts everything we do. And I’m just worried about all these policies and everything that is just causing so much stress for families to just meet their basic needs.

 

00;30;53;26 – 00;31;21;23

Dr. Rich Besser

Yeah. I mean, the number of people who have to work two and three jobs. Yeah. To to make ends, ends meet. That makes it pretty hard to be the kind of parent that you want to be, right? Because as you’re saying, so much of parenting is being present. And, if you’re not able to be present because you’re needing to work to, to make ends meet, you’re going to you’re going to do that because you got you have to survive.

 

00;31;21;23 – 00;31;41;12

Dr. Rich Besser

First of so these are these are fundamental issues, you know, in a, in our society of who has the opportunity and who does not, whose children are allowed to dream and potentially see those dreams come true and whose children are told, you know, you don’t have the room to dream. Yeah. You just have to get on with it.

 

00;31;41;19 – 00;32;03;11

Dr. Mona

Oh, I feel this, you know, I am again, so grateful for the work that you all do. How our community advocates stepping in to protect families access to nutrition and more broadly, to strengthen the overall health and well-being of families. And I totally respect that. There’s so many layers to this. But, yeah, some positive things that we’re doing here.

 

00;32;03;13 – 00;32;28;28

Dr. Rich Besser

Yeah. You know, I, we’re we’re we’re doing a lot I think that, you know, our vision of a is for a future where health is not a privilege, but a right. And there’s a lot you cannot pack with that in terms of who is privileged in America to be able to lead, a really healthy life to have those things that they know that they, they need and they’re able to, to, to provide that.

 

00;32;28;28 – 00;32;49;23

Dr. Rich Besser

And who is not and why not? And so we look, we work a lot to try and address the barriers that are there to health. In America, one of the biggest barriers is around structural racism. And so we have a big focus on looking at how that plays out in various ways throughout society and fighting back on that.

 

00;32;49;25 – 00;33;13;12

Dr. Rich Besser

You know, I, I’ve been at the foundation for, for nine years. And if you told me nine years ago, that we would be investing hundreds of millions of dollars in protecting our democracy and, building a democracy that works for everybody, I would have thought that you were. You were crazy. What’s the connection between democracy and health?

 

00;33;13;15 – 00;33;47;21

Dr. Rich Besser

We are seeing what that connection is. If people don’t have the ability to influence their lives through a working democracy, then their lives will not be be healthy. We we have invested a lot in, in ensuring people have access to ballot initiatives. As like, well, that’s pretty wonky. Why are you doing that? Well, in many states, following initiatives have been used to raise the minimum wage, which means some people who were in poverty no longer are, and they can buy food and healthy food for their families.

 

00;33;47;23 – 00;34;11;05

Dr. Rich Besser

We’ve seen ballot initiatives be used to guarantee, access to reproductive health care. And abortion is part of that. That’s been done through ballot initiatives. We’ve seen Medicaid expanded in many states because people in those in those states demanded it, even though their their elected officials said, well, we don’t want to do that because that was a Democrat thing.

 

00;34;11;09 – 00;34;30;05

Dr. Rich Besser

You say it’s not a Democrat thing. It’s a health thing. We’re seeing pushback on that. You know, in your state of Florida, they changed the rules around ballot initiatives. What used to be that that, 50%, you know, you know, 50% plus one was enough to win a ballot initiative. Some states, like Florida, have raised it to like 60%.

 

00;34;30;05 – 00;34;58;26

Dr. Rich Besser

Yet, which is why, you know, reproductive justice failed in in Florida already. People wanted it. So it’s it’s we’re working in that space in a big way. Back in, at the the end of June, the Supreme Court ruled that anyone born in America, is a citizen. Yeah. They supported birthright citizenship as written in the 14th amendment.

 

00;34;59;05 – 00;35;24;29

Dr. Rich Besser

That was in the 14th amendment as a way of of addressing one of the horrors of slavery. And the administration said, no, we don’t believe everyone born in America should. So one of our grantees, the ACLU, was the lead plaintiff, on this. And they won, because, you know, fighting back wins over 200 of our grantees, our grantees last year were involved in over 200 lawsuits against the administration.

 

00;35;24;29 – 00;35;46;14

Dr. Rich Besser

They won 70% of them. And so these were things like, the administration, when there was a government shutdown, wanted to stop Snap payments, you know, food to people. Yeah. And, our grantees took them to court and, and got that, got that overturned. So fighting back works. It works at the National level. It works at the state level.

 

00;35;46;17 – 00;36;09;27

Dr. Rich Besser

It works in communities. And so if there’s an issue that people care about, don’t feel that fighting back doesn’t work. You know, there’s a one of the things that authoritarians want to do is, is, is, create a sense of helplessness, that there’s nothing that you can do, that this is, out of your control and just get used to it.

 

00;36;09;29 – 00;36;34;02

Dr. Rich Besser

And what we’re trying to do and what our grantees are trying to do, is create a different story. And it’s that fighting back works. Fighting back is is the best way to to counter changes in our society that that, take us in the wrong direction and so advocate fight back those issues you care about. Do something about it.

 

00;36;34;05 – 00;36;54;22

Dr. Rich Besser

It it’s so good for your mental health as well to not feel like, oh my God, there’s so many things going on in the world. There’s nothing I can do. It’s just like, you can’t do something about all of them. So. So pick one, pick one. That’s that. That matters to you, that you think is so important, and talk to other people and see what matters to them.

 

00;36;54;27 – 00;37;20;25

Dr. Rich Besser

Part of this is, I think when you’re at the local level, in particular, finding a way to see the humanity in everyone around you, you know, we are so polarized, so balkanized, around issues. But the ability to talk to someone who you may not agree with everything on and look for those threads, those common, those common areas, and you may find things that you can actually work on together.

 

00;37;20;26 – 00;37;42;23

Dr. Mona

I love that last message, and I think that’s what’s causing so much more divide in that we feel, again, not only has just been this huge polarization of what we started with, right, like pro-vaccine, anti-vaccine pro, you know, clean food anti like it’s like there’s so much middle ground that I don’t think we realize that most Americans are interested in.

 

00;37;42;23 – 00;38;07;19

Dr. Mona

I think I’ve worked with you all on a campaign on that, on understanding that most Americans want the same thing. It’s the media. It’s the social media. It’s all the people saying that, no, we are against each other. When I don’t think any family wants rising costs of groceries, rising costs of health care, rising costs of housing housing and rising costs of childcare, I mean, all of this stuff is squeezing us in every different way, you know?

 

00;38;07;19 – 00;38;27;09

Dr. Mona

And even if you are with means, as I say, like that is still impacting you. And like I’ve always said, it impacts your community, which you said beautifully. Like, I want my kids to be able to go to a store, go to the park and know that their peers, whether they have the same income bracket as us or not, are getting the same access to the things that they do.

 

00;38;27;09 – 00;38;50;20

Dr. Mona

In terms of the basic needs. And that reality really hurts in a place like Florida, knowing that there is such a case of the haves and have nots, right? Like you either have, it’s become so much more of a divide here, like when the pandemic has really blown that out, where it’s like you either are very well-to-do, have the means, or then you are really struggling, like the loss of the middle class is really becoming a reality here.

 

00;38;50;22 – 00;39;13;06

Dr. Mona

And to me, it’s not fair. As someone who takes care of children, as someone who does have the means to provide, I still don’t like it that my peers of my children do not have the means to survive, and that is just unfair. And going back to, you know, all of this like feeling families feeling squeezed, you know, the rising costs, all of that.

 

00;39;13;09 – 00;39;25;09

Dr. Mona

What would it take to ensure every family has what they need to thrive, where they didn’t have to choose between paying for groceries, covering rent, or picking up their medication? Do you feel it’s policy, or do you feel it’s something else we need to do?

 

00;39;25;17 – 00;39;50;27

Dr. Rich Besser

I think a lot of it is is policy. Yeah. You know, I, I worked in government for, for 13 years and I’ve seen the power of good government policies to, to create those opportunities to fill, fill in the gaps. And, I think there’s a myth that, if you just work hard enough, you can you can get it done.

 

00;39;51;00 – 00;40;17;20

Dr. Rich Besser

There are a lot of people who are working so incredibly hard, and they’re falling further and further behind. And so these programs, you know, we need universal health care in America. You know, we need to have a situation where no one is going to become bankrupt because they become ill. Yeah. And had to choose between paying for a drug and paying their mortgage or paying paying their, their, their rent.

 

00;40;17;26 – 00;40;43;23

Dr. Rich Besser

We can afford that as a nation that we need, to agree that this is a nation in which no one should be hungry and no one should be without, without a house. These are things that that, you know, we may disagree on how we get to those things, but I think fundamentally, we we need to agree that that these are the objectives we’re all working towards.

 

00;40;43;25 – 00;41;06;27

Dr. Rich Besser

And then let’s debate is let’s, you know, how we how we get to those things. I am a true believer in the in the power of government. I’ve seen, you know, over time what’s happened when programs like Medicare were created. All of a sudden we saw a dramatic drop, a drop in poverty among the the elderly. It’s like, wow, that’s incredible.

 

00;41;06;27 – 00;41;21;21

Dr. Rich Besser

If you two if you take health care, you know, off the list of the major expenditures for someone as they’re getting old, they’re no longer there now, no longer is likely to be poor. It’s like, well, why can’t everyone experience something like that?

 

00;41;21;24 – 00;41;45;11

Dr. Mona

You know, one thing that I’ve been watching, and I would like to be clear that I respect people have different opinions on, you know, policies. But politics. I have really enjoyed watching what, mom Donny’s doing in New York City. Only because I just feel for the first time in my life, I’m seeing, like, a political figure, really listening to the people and trying to figure out what to do.

 

00;41;45;11 – 00;42;03;28

Dr. Mona

And I, I feel like we’ve sort of seen a reclaim of the political system. And, you know, I saw a post that they’re trying to, trying to create more grocery stores, for, food deserts and, like, they’re trying to do through the city government. Right. Like, hey, we’re looking to create more New York City grocery stores.

 

00;42;03;28 – 00;42;20;19

Dr. Mona

Like, let us know if you have an open space. We will create this for you. And I was just looking at all those, again, policies that me and you are talking about, right. Universal child care. The you know, that the grocery access and people are in the comments section like, hey, we have a food desert and that’s why we have this.

 

00;42;20;19 – 00;42;38;23

Dr. Mona

And I say to myself, I know this can be done. And like you said, the way it gets done can be disagreed on. But I know I’m seeing it done in the largest city in the in the country. And it’s really cool to see the policy again. I, I respect people’s belief systems, but like I have just been very intrigued.

 

00;42;38;23 – 00;43;00;03

Dr. Mona

I don’t live in New York anymore, but just watching what what can be done when someone and a community is looking at the needs, like getting on the ground, like you said, right. The advocacy, listening, I think you mentioned about listening to people who disagree with you. Yeah. Like that is what this is all about. And I, I just think it’s a beautiful thing that we’re empowering families.

 

00;43;00;06 – 00;43;18;09

Dr. Mona

What would be your final message to someone listening here? In terms of a lot of my listeners are parents, right. So the role they can play in their own communities and the power they already have to push for change when they feel like they don’t. What would you say to those families that are like, I love all this, but I don’t know what to do.

 

00;43;18;09 – 00;43;19;24

Dr. Mona

I don’t know what to do. I don’t know where to start.

 

00;43;19;26 – 00;43;34;07

Dr. Rich Besser

The example that you you give a mayor Mamdani in in New York City, I live in, in New York City. And what really excited me and gives me hope is that he’s been able to pull young people into the political process.

 

00;43;34;07 – 00;43;34;24

Dr. Mona

Yes.

 

00;43;34;24 – 00;43;57;00

Dr. Rich Besser

And for so long I had this great concern that people, you know, when people say, oh, why should I even vote? It doesn’t really matter. He’s been able to capture and captivate and inspire a new generation to say, we’ve got ideas, too. Yeah, and we want to give our ideas a try. Maybe some of them, won’t work.

 

00;43;57;02 – 00;44;23;09

Dr. Rich Besser

But a lot of you old folks, your ideas now work either. Right? And so what I would say to, to every parent is, is the lesson from what you were, you’re calling out there is get engaged, don’t give up. Look for those people who are inspiring, who are who are lifting up ideas for what should be. Don’t write them off as being overly idealistic.

 

00;44;23;12 – 00;44;45;06

Dr. Rich Besser

Give it a shot. Because what you’re going to find is that some of them, some of them go forward and greatly improve the lives of so many people in our country, and that benefits everybody in our country. You know, we have a grant. We have just one more point. We have we have a grantee in in new Jersey, the new, new Jersey Institute for Social Justice.

 

00;44;45;08 – 00;44;53;03

Dr. Rich Besser

And they had a campaign to allow 16 year olds in Newark to vote for school board elections.

 

00;44;53;03 – 00;44;54;18

Dr. Mona

Wow. Amazing.

 

00;44;54;18 – 00;45;16;22

Dr. Rich Besser

And it passed. Yes. So if you’re 16 in Newark, you can vote for the school board. And, you know, it’s about the school board, but it’s about so much more. It’s about getting people when they’re young invested in, in changing society, for the better. And through their own voice in their, their own activism, parents can do the same thing.

 

00;45;16;27 – 00;45;42;05

Dr. Rich Besser

That’s we’re seeing that with the Maha movement. We’re seeing people, taking control and and. Well, you know, I get worried when I see movements being co-opted by, by by folks who are spreading, false information. But the idea that taking control and taking action, is something that you could do and you should do is really important.

 

00;45;42;07 – 00;46;02;03

Dr. Mona

I agree, and I think it’s so inspiring to just watch and see I do the same right when I’m like, oh, how can I get involved? Or what can I do? I’m just looking for all the helpers, all the people like we mentioned that like sort of are doing the thing to and maybe we may not have the capacity to do it at the full level, but at least it inspires us that change is possible.

 

00;46;02;03 – 00;46;17;06

Dr. Mona

And I think this is so beautiful. Doctor Rich, I have really enjoyed this conversation. Where can people go to stay connected on not only all the work that, you know, Robert Wood Johnson Foundation is and or any of the, you know, grants and activities that you all are involved in. Yeah.

 

00;46;17;10 – 00;46;42;13

Dr. Rich Besser

You can come to our website, our Wjbf org. You’ll you’ll see there what it is we focus on. You’ll get to read about some of our incredible grantees. I think we’ve got about a thousand across the country at any one time. But it’s we are pushing back and we are pushing back harder. Hard. And we are we are lifting up a vision that that, I am really excited about.

 

00;46;42;16 – 00;46;51;15

Dr. Rich Besser

And I’m optimistic, that we are we are making progress. Our grantees, people and communities are changing things. For the better.

 

00;46;51;23 – 00;47;10;01

Dr. Mona

And for anyone listening, I think you may know, but I do some work with the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation in terms of listening in on the advocacy projects that they’re doing. And I don’t just talk to anybody. You know, for me, the work that they’re doing is truly changing the world, changing our country. And I am just so grateful doctor Rich could join us today.

 

00;47;10;01 – 00;47;17;03

Dr. Mona

And I do not think this is going to be the last time you are on my show, doctor Rich, because this was so enlightening. And thank you again for joining us today.

 

00;47;17;05 – 00;47;21;29

Dr. Rich Besser

Thanks so much. I really enjoyed the conversation.

 

00;47;22;02 – 00;47;40;24

Dr. Mona

Have I told you lately how much I love PedsDocTalk? Not only because I can provide personal guidance from my own mind, but I can have the meeting of the minds on this show and talk to the most educated, experienced people on certain topics. And that was doctor Rich Besser. Today, here is my biggest takeaway as a pediatrician.

 

00;47;40;24 – 00;47;59;00

Dr. Mona

I see the impact of policy on kids every single day, whether that is access to school meal, snap, wig, or basic health care. Even when a policy does not feel like it touches your own household directly, it touches a kid in your community, and that kid is part of the world. Your child is growing up and so we should care.

 

00;47;59;03 – 00;48;20;02

Dr. Mona

Caring about safety and access to education and health, food for all, not just our own families, is a PedsDocTalk value, and it’s what I value so much in this community. So thank you for showing up and being a part of that. The hope in this is that none of this is out of our hands. Voting, showing up to school board meetings, staying informed.

 

00;48;20;02 – 00;48;46;14

Dr. Mona

These things genuinely move the needle even when change feels slow. So if you know someone who tunes out policy conversations because they figure it does not affect them, send them this episode. If you found this valuable, share it. Because this is exactly the message I want to spread on this show and through the platform. Tag us at the PedsDocTalk podcast, PedsDocTalk doctor Rich Besser, and our foundation when you share.

 

00;48;46;17 – 00;48;56;23

Dr. Mona

Thank you for being here. Thank you for always wanting to change the world. And thank you for having the shared value of caring for all kids. Stay well and I’ll chat with you all next time.