On this episode I welcome Mallory Whitmore—formula feeding mom of two, certified infant feeding technician, and founder of @theformulamom. We discuss the following:

•  Why we develop formula-feeding guilt
• The lack of formula-feeding education
• Overcoming formula-feeding guilt

Visit Mallory and learn more at www.theformulamom.com.

00;00;08;19 – 00;00;36;11

Dr. Mona

Welcome to this week’s episode. I am so excited to welcome Mallory Whitmore. We are going to be talking about formula shaming and how we feel that that has led to overwhelming guilt for new moms. Mallory is a formula feeding mom of two, certified infant feeding technician and founder of the Formula Mom on Instagram and a website. A wealth of information for formula feeding, which I think is not easy to come by.

 

00;00;36;12 – 00;00;39;04

Dr. Mona

So thank you so much for joining me today, Mallory.

 

00;00;39;10 – 00;00;42;03

Mallory Whitmore

Thank you so much for having me. I’m excited to be here.

 

00;00;42;05 – 00;00;47;06

Dr. Mona

Tell me more about yourself and what brought you to do what you are doing today with the formula, mom?

 

00;00;47;08 – 00;01;13;07

Mallory Whitmore

Yeah, absolutely. So I have two kids, a little girl who’s five and a half and a boy who’s two and a half. And when I had my daughter, 2016, I like the majority of families in the US here expect to breastfeed. I intended to breastfeed. I’ve taken a breastfeeding class. Looking back, I’m not sure I even really wanted to breastfeed so much as I felt like that was the obvious choice because that’s what, you know, quote unquote good parents did.

 

00;01;13;10 – 00;01;35;16

Mallory Whitmore

Yeah. And the experience that I had from the start was very difficult. She was early. I had gestational diabetes, and my milk was delayed, and she lost 12% body weight by day three, and it just was not working for us. So I switched from trying to nurse to exclusively pumping, which was even worse for my mental health.

 

00;01;35;19 – 00;01;57;12

Mallory Whitmore

And it became obvious really quickly that this was just not going to work for our family. It’s not going to work to try to provide breast milk for this little girl, both for her health and her weight gain, but also for my mental health, which really devolved quickly into a pretty severe postpartum depression. And so, you know, once I made the decision, okay, we’re going to switch the formula.

 

00;01;57;13 – 00;02;20;09

Mallory Whitmore

I was shocked and appalled that I couldn’t find any high quality, supportive judgment free, research backed resources and that kind of thing. I mean, every resource that I found basically was like, oh, you’re thinking about formula feeding. Don’t do it like this is not helpful at this point. And so, I spent a few years just sort of sitting on that.

 

00;02;20;09 – 00;02;46;20

Mallory Whitmore

And then when I had my son, we decided to formula feed from the beginning with him. And I thought, okay, it’s been almost three years. Certainly there’s going to be better information out. And there still wasn’t. So since he was born, I’ve been on this mission to educate myself. And I went back to school and got certified, and I worked for formula company for about a year and launched my platform to be that space for others that I needed just to provide information and support and education about formula feeding.

 

00;02;46;23 – 00;03;08;14

Dr. Mona

Oh, this is so important. So, you know, my journey is very similar, and I don’t think I’ve ever really talked about this detail, but I like every pediatrician who’s gone through education was fed the breast is best mentality in education. Okay. Right. And it was to a point where that’s what I thought. And it’s really poorly educated in medical school.

 

00;03;08;14 – 00;03;25;22

Dr. Mona

And I’m going to be honest that I think we get the breastfeeding education, but not nearly as much as I think that I BCL has. Right. Oh, you also don’t get great formula education. So you’re in the middle of hey, breast is best, but you don’t even know how to fully educate a mother on breastfeeding and everything that is or pumping that it up.

 

00;03;25;29 – 00;03;46;25

Dr. Mona

But then you also don’t know everything there is to know about formula in the training that we go through. It’s through practice. It’s through your own desire to learn. But what was told to me and what I believed for so long was that, yes, breast is best breast, best breast, breast. I went into it and I’m going to be very honest, there was bias and there was, you know, you go through and you see families and you’re a mom is not breastfeeding.

 

00;03;46;25 – 00;04;05;06

Dr. Mona

This when I first started my journey as a pediatrician and I would be like, why aren’t you breastfeeding? Like I in my head before even having a child, when I first started out, because of what was fed to me through training and through messaging, correct? Like I was, I created my own bias and my own like, well, you should be breastfeeding.

 

00;04;05;06 – 00;04;32;22

Dr. Mona

Like, why aren’t you breastfeeding? Because I put it on a pedestal that was higher than formula feeding through my training. And then it wasn’t until I started to practice more. Right when I’m talking like I’ve been practicing for seven years, that I started to see that, you know, formula feeding babies are obviously extremely healthy. And a lot of that literature that goes behind breast as best doesn’t always pan out in terms of this high superiority compared to formula feeding babies.

 

00;04;32;27 – 00;04;51;28

Dr. Mona

They talk about the high IQ and obesity. I’m like, I see tons of formula fed babies who have high IQ, who are not obese. And already why are we putting labels at these things, are at these awful things? Anyways, and then also the immune stuff, right? I see breastfed babies coming in with ear infections, coming in with pneumonias coming in with things that humbling.

 

00;04;52;02 – 00;05;11;25

Dr. Mona

Okay. So the research quote unquote is telling me X, Y and Z. But why is it in clinical practice it’s not matching up to the research. And then I dived into the research. This is you know, before even becoming a mom. And I like looked into it. I’m like, look, breast is great. But then there’s also an understanding that it’s a big picture environment that we put in a child.

 

00;05;12;01 – 00;05;41;09

Dr. Mona

Meaning. Yes, I’m not going to deny that. It provides immunological components that are really powerful and unique. But the amazing thing about formula is that they have created formulations formula that in a way, very closely mimic what you get in breast. Not so. Absolutely not. It’s not a pedestal thing. It’s hey, breastfeeding is great, but formula feeding is also a great auction’s kind of the message that I want Monch to feel, because I don’t want people to think then, well, why am I even breastfeeding?

 

00;05;41;09 – 00;06;08;23

Dr. Mona

Obviously what you want to do and what you see is best, but like you said perfectly, this is about having a family have resources for feeding. You know, like you didn’t have those resources when, you wanted to formula feed. I feel like a lot of moms don’t have breastfeeding education. That is non-judgmental. Meaning I feel like so many mothers, including myself when I was postpartum and could not for the life of me, produce any colostrum because of my anxiety.

 

00;06;08;23 – 00;06;20;29

Dr. Mona

I’m going to say flat out that my breast milk supply tank. Because my son was in the NICU, I was hooked up to so many wires, right? I did not want to smell his freaking like hat anymore. I wanted to.

 

00;06;21;00 – 00;06;21;17

Mallory Whitmore

Yeah.

 

00;06;21;22 – 00;06;28;19

Dr. Mona

Right. So my breast milk supply tank, because of just the natural evolution of what happened to us postpartum, you know.

 

00;06;28;21 – 00;06;29;01

Mallory Whitmore

Right.

 

00;06;29;02 – 00;06;49;28

Dr. Mona

There’s an understanding and I think a misconception that breastfeeding is quote unquote natural and easy. And it is not number one. Number two, many women realize quickly that it’s not for them. They realize it. It’s like I’m tired. I am slipping into depression because of the breastfeeding. And I think from a pediatrician standpoint, I noticed parents who went there.

 

00;06;50;05 – 00;07;22;18

Dr. Mona

It’s because they’re worried about how much their baby’s eating, their production, the time, the lack of sleep. I mean, there’s so many different reasons why a mom may choose to go towards formula or exclusively pump, but there needs to be more support in the mom. Right? The mom. Yeah. Okay. What do you want? And then I look at all these babies who don’t have a mother in terms of same sex couples, I mean, they do formula, and they’re not batting an eyelash because we know that formula is not this toxic thing that society has made it out to be.

 

00;07;22;25 – 00;07;35;07

Dr. Mona

And it’s sad. Like, it’s really sad because I think that’s where this shaming is coming from. Like, what do you think? Like, why do you think? And maybe if you did, let me know why do you think you carry so much of this guilt when we choose to formula feed?

 

00;07;35;09 – 00;08;04;16

Mallory Whitmore

Oh gosh, I think it’s multifaceted. I try to be really honest about the history of formula marketing and formula companies, particularly Nestlé. In the 1970s. I have really, really unethical marketing practices, and in large part the breast is best. Movement was born out of trying to sort of right the ship. Yes. After the marketing practices for formula companies in the 70s really did try to convince mothers that formula was better than breast milk.

 

00;08;04;16 – 00;08;25;17

Mallory Whitmore

Yeah. Now, you know, 40 years later, 50 years later, I think the pendulum has swung too far in the other direction. Right where now, you know, formula is better. Now breast milk is better. And we need to find some place that’s really a nice middle ground. Here it’s not which is best but it’s what makes sense for your family and your situation.

 

00;08;25;20 – 00;08;56;14

Mallory Whitmore

Yeah I don’t know I think to be honest some of the guilt comes from just on the whole mom not knowing how to define themselves in their new role as mother. I know for me, when my daughter was born, I felt this huge loss of identity. I felt really isolated, and it felt like if I could breastfeed that, at least I was part of something, that I was part of a group that I had words that that could be, you know, part of my identity as being a good mom or a new mom.

 

00;08;56;17 – 00;09;19;07

Mallory Whitmore

And when that didn’t happen, obviously that made my postpartum depression so much worse. But I think a lot of the guilt stems from that, from society and our collection of new moms wanting and needing to find some way to define ourselves outside of potentially work or outside of our peer groups or whatever else. Because all of that shifts.

 

00;09;19;12 – 00;09;21;17

Mallory Whitmore

What do we become? New moms?

 

00;09;21;20 – 00;09;38;27

Dr. Mona

Yes, I completely agree with that. I mean, that identity piece and that knowing what you want and oh, I just wish so many people before they became a mom, like, rather than focusing on prepping their baby. You know, that’s important to. Right? Prepping for the baby. It’s really about really reflecting on where are you getting these ideals from.

 

00;09;38;27 – 00;09;54;14

Dr. Mona

Like for me, right. Like when I just said formula C, the guilt for me lasted about, I would say maybe under a week because, I’ve quickly realized how much happier I was by formula feeding. So I saw that while I’m happy. So that means that my son is going to be happier. And I can’t stress that enough.

 

00;09;54;14 – 00;10;16;12

Dr. Mona

The mom or the primary caregivers happiness, it transcends and emanates through the home. So if a new mom is feeling like tapped out from breastfeeding, hates it, and that mom is the only person who’s going to know that, right? No one else can tell you how you’re feeling with breastfeeding. And then if you feel like you have to do this because that’s the only way that your baby’s going to be healthy, and that’s the only way your baby’s going to have good outcomes.

 

00;10;16;12 – 00;10;35;25

Dr. Mona

When we know that there are other ways like formula feeding to feeding, babies get fed other ways, yeah. Then you’re going to feel so much pressure that’s going to take away that joy from you when you are actually trying to bond with your baby. And it’s sad to me, and I have so many examples of when I really have to tell moms, like, what are you doing for yourself right now?

 

00;10;35;26 – 00;10;54;17

Dr. Mona

Look at like you are, you’re going down a rabbit hole that I’m worried about you. I had a mom one time that was so adamant about breastfeeding and I supported her. And this was before I became a lactation consultant. Like, this was like back in my old job, so adamant. Her husband was like watching her spiral, right? Because it wasn’t working for her.

 

00;10;54;17 – 00;11;12;21

Dr. Mona

The production was an issue. The latch was an issue. She had a lactation consultant, but she was so fixated on not introducing formula because she had been told and viewed it as something negative and toxic, that the baby was losing weight. And I said to mom, I’m like, mom, I want to get you back to breastfeeding. If that’s your goal.

 

00;11;12;21 – 00;11;36;17

Dr. Mona

That is my goal too. But we need something as a placeholder to get your baby back, to get your baby back to breast or pumping, because I don’t want you to lose your supply out of stress, and I don’t want the baby to wither away and cause more medical issues. I mean, I can’t tell you the amount of medical issues I have seen from dehydrated babies whose mothers refused to give formula because they look at it as toxic.

 

00;11;36;19 – 00;11;42;28

Dr. Mona

She finally listened to me, gave the formula. We were able to get back her supply, and she was able to get back to breastfeeding.

 

00;11;43;00 – 00;11;44;00

Mallory Whitmore

So that’s amazing.

 

00;11;44;02 – 00;12;01;22

Dr. Mona

If we are able to educate mothers that, hey, I’m not telling you that you have to formula feed your baby, I’m telling you that you are breastfeeding. But there are options when it’s not working out initially that I can get you to a place where, if that is your goal, but you need to revisit your goal and see what is this bringing me joy?

 

00;12;01;29 – 00;12;19;27

Dr. Mona

Is this something I like to do? Like some women don’t like it and I respect that now. I absolutely respect that. Like when a mom comes in now and is like, I’m not breastfeeding, I’m like, I respect you, enjoy the formula, enjoy it. Like like I, you know, and that changed a lot in my in the last five years of how I practice.

 

00;12;19;27 – 00;12;30;09

Dr. Mona

And I love that. I think it’s opened up more conversations for moms and it also has been I’ve seen better breastfeeding outcomes because of it. Yeah, I’m not vilifying formula.

 

00;12;30;12 – 00;12;49;04

Mallory Whitmore

You know, and something that you said that I think is so important is it does require that self-reflection both in what are my goals, what are my values, what does success look like as it relates to feeding my baby, as well as why do I have the beliefs that I have about breastfeeding formula? Where did those beliefs come from?

 

00;12;49;10 – 00;13;33;01

Mallory Whitmore

And then evaluating? Are those trustworthy sources, like if my beliefs about breastfeeding and formula are mostly from like keyboard like activists on Instagram. That’s probably not a great source of information. And for me, a big piece of getting over the guilt was doing some of the high quality research, looking at the high quality research about what the benefits of breast milk actually are and what the, you know, quote unquote, risks of formula feeding actually are, and helping me understand that the narratives that I had been told from the internet, from some of my medical providers, from folks in my life about the superiority of breast milk and the, you know, poisonous ness of formula

 

00;13;33;02 – 00;13;52;29

Mallory Whitmore

was just not factually true. And it was really crucial for me to do that research and to learn things like, you know, you’ll read the statistics and it’ll say formula fed babies are twice as likely to get into your collection. And that feels terrible, right? You’re like, oh my gosh, I don’t want my baby to be twice as likely to get an infection.

 

00;13;53;02 – 00;14;13;09

Mallory Whitmore

But nobody tells you that. That risk has increased from 2% to 4%, right? Like your total risk is still very, very low no matter how you treat. Yes, 4% is twice as much as 2%, but your baby saw the 96% chance that they’re not going to get an ear infection no matter how you eat during the first year.

 

00;14;13;11 – 00;14;32;21

Mallory Whitmore

And that’s what I try to do a lot of on my page is help to put into perspective those messages that a lot of us see around feeding our baby, around our work as it relates to feeding our baby, to help folks sort of unpack. And then we learn, reeducate what’s actually true.

 

00;14;32;23 – 00;14;49;00

Dr. Mona

And I appreciate that. That’s what you do on your page, because I think, like you said, like there are keyboard activists that go on one extreme and then there’s people who you don’t do this, but there’s people who are so pro formula that they become anti brush. But it doesn’t mean that I am officially a ibkr C, and I’m so excited.

 

00;14;49;02 – 00;14;49;12

Mallory Whitmore

By.

 

00;14;49;15 – 00;15;08;22

Dr. Mona

This opportunity because I feel like there’s needs to be more IVC classes that understand the psychological impact of being anti formula has on a new mom, because if you tell a new mom you have to breastfeed, you have to breastfeed and they can’t and they dry up because of that stress, getting their milk supply back is nearly impossible.

 

00;15;08;22 – 00;15;17;00

Dr. Mona

Versus hey, we have this amazing option. I’m going to help you and we’re going to put the puzzle pieces together that we can get your last fact, get your supply back.

 

00;15;17;08 – 00;15;17;17

Mallory Whitmore

Get your.

 

00;15;17;17 – 00;15;36;07

Dr. Mona

Pumping back if that’s what you want to do. But it’s that middle ground education that’s going to support mothers, whatever they decide. And I appreciate that about your account, because I’ve been falling for a long time, and I love the way you don’t ever balance feeding. It’s never like, oh, well, what’s the point there is definitely benefit on both sides.

 

00;15;36;12 – 00;15;46;00

Dr. Mona

We know we wouldn’t be telling people to breastfeed, but it’s not like this far superior thing that if you do not breastfeed, your child is going to end up with Covid. I mean, we’re in the pandemic right.

 

00;15;46;00 – 00;15;47;00

Mallory Whitmore

Now and it’s like.

 

00;15;47;02 – 00;16;06;29

Dr. Mona

The amount of DMs I get that, hey, I’m like, should I be giving my toddler my breast milk? I’m like, no, unless you’re still breastfeeding them, give the breast milk. But are you thinking that you’re going to stop this kid from getting Covid by giving them a sip of breast? No, that’s not how it works. Like we have become so accustomed that being told that it boosts your immune system.

 

00;16;06;29 – 00;16;10;01

Dr. Mona

But let me tell you, like it’s not a complete boost.

 

00;16;10;04 – 00;16;11;04

Mallory Whitmore

There are no you’re still.

 

00;16;11;04 – 00;16;28;05

Dr. Mona

Susceptible to your infections, are still susceptible to getting illnesses like. And I see that in clinical practice. And it goes back to environment is your child and child childcare? Is your child in a home with a lot of other siblings? Whether you breastfeed or formula feed does not matter. When your environment has germs.

 

00;16;28;08 – 00;16;29;12

Mallory Whitmore

Like, oh.

 

00;16;29;15 – 00;16;45;10

Dr. Mona

Absolutely, I’ve seen it, actually. I mean, I have kids who come in and it’s like the formula for a kid is never say never sick. And then I have breastfed babies who start childcare and is sick like every other week. And why I get so upset is that then the moms feel so guilty. Why is it not working?

 

00;16;45;13 – 00;16;51;06

Dr. Mona

I was told that breastfeeding means that my show would be this, that or the other. You can’t guarantee people the.

 

00;16;51;06 – 00;17;19;25

Mallory Whitmore

Thing that’s worse food allergies. I hear that all the time. Yes, I was told if I breastfed, my baby wasn’t going to be allergic to peanuts. I was told if I breastfed that, you know, my baby would meet all their gross motor milestones or whatever. And I think you make a good point here, which is that all of the outcomes that we tend to want to ascribe to breast milk, whether it’s IQ or obesity or illness or allergies or whatever, all of them are so multifactor.

 

00;17;19;28 – 00;17;36;23

Mallory Whitmore

Yeah, right. Like if we’re not looking at what is the IQ level of the parents, what is the education level of the parents? Does this baby have access to high quality medical care? Are the rest of their food that they’re eating starting at six months nutrient dense, you know, are their basic needs met? Is somebody reading to them daily?

 

00;17;36;27 – 00;17;57;29

Mallory Whitmore

I mean, there’s just so many factors that actually influence these outcomes. And it’s sad that so much of the time we distill all of that to this 2% of bioactive components in breast milk that formula doesn’t have, because frankly, that’s just not how development works. It’s so multifactorial.

 

00;17;58;02 – 00;18;11;09

Dr. Mona

Oh my gosh, I agree. I mean, the research also, again, I need to be clear here that we understand I definitely understand that there are benefits to the breastfeeding because I think, again, I want to reiterate that when people hear that you’re supporting formula, that it means that you’re anti breast.

 

00;18;11;09 – 00;18;13;08

Mallory Whitmore

That’s not what that is, right? Yeah.

 

00;18;13;09 – 00;18;30;27

Dr. Mona

But you have to understand that when the research comes out about breastfeeding, one of the biggest things that you mentioned is all the research about obesity a high IQ and illnesses track. Those are your big three. Yeah those big things that people worry if they introduce formula. But what they also don’t look at the research which I keep stressing to families is socio economically and environment like we mentioned.

 

00;18;30;27 – 00;18;53;27

Dr. Mona

Yep. Unfortunately. And I think we’ll see more of this now that a lot of higher quote unquote socioeconomic families are formula feeding their children like because out of choice or they could not breastfeed and that was their choice. And I love that is that you’re going to see differences. Because if you compare children across all socioeconomic status of the same status, breast and formula, that will be the better study.

 

00;18;54;00 – 00;18;55;13

Mallory Whitmore

Because you will.

 

00;18;55;13 – 00;19;24;25

Dr. Mona

See, because then those families probably have better access to child care. Those families probably live in better living conditions. Unfortunately, most of the research accounts for the fact that in literature and in the research studies, it used to be that most formula fed babies came from lower socioeconomic settings. And then with that comes genetics of food allergies. With that comes genetics of other things that can be like obesity, other things like illness because of crowding, living conditions, because of childcare access.

 

00;19;24;25 – 00;19;43;25

Dr. Mona

I mean, we’re not forgetting, like you said perfectly, the foods that you’re introducing your child at six months, what the exposures you’re giving them from a developmental aspect going into that, the engagement that you give with your child. I will never believe that a food, whether it’s formula, breast milk or the foods that we eat, is what makes the kid smarter.

 

00;19;43;28 – 00;19;59;22

Dr. Mona

It’s the environment that the child is growing up in. So if you’re telling me that breast milk causes a high IQ, I mean, use common sense here. How can something we put into our body cause high IQ? It’s genetic or it’s the environmental experiences, the schooling.

 

00;19;59;24 – 00;20;00;07

Mallory Whitmore

The.

 

00;20;00;09 – 00;20;09;00

Dr. Mona

Yeah. I mean, sure, you want to have a high nutritious diet that it, it’s not like, oh, this is it. This is what’s going to give your kid like, you look at your family.

 

00;20;09;02 – 00;20;29;21

Mallory Whitmore

Well, and that’s exactly what I was going to say. One of my favorite pieces of research that I point people to, our sibling comparison studies. And when, you know, when researchers look at siblings or one was breastfed and one was formula fed, and generally all of the other factors have stayed the same, right? They’re right. They have the same parents with the same IQ, with the same educational status.

 

00;20;29;23 – 00;20;54;24

Mallory Whitmore

They’re in the same house, they’re living in the same community, they’re going to the same schools, whatever. We don’t see any statistic significant advantages as it relates to IQ or overall health outcomes for the sibling that was breastfed. And that, to me, is the biggest indicator that the factors that have historically been ascribed to breast milk benefit are actually related to other socioeconomic factors.

 

00;20;54;27 – 00;21;20;11

Speaker 3

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00;21;20;14 – 00;21;35;29

Speaker 3

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00;21;36;01 – 00;21;59;23

Dr. Mona

The purpose of this episode is to kind of explain that in that I can’t tell you, and I know you probably deal with it a lot too, on your platform because you are educating about formula, is how many people have felt so guilty about all of this just because of that narrative and the studies that don’t talk about the environment we give our kids, the environment that we provide, the resources, you know, there’s so much more.

 

00;21;59;27 – 00;22;05;00

Dr. Mona

And this is a bigger message from not just breastfeeding and formula. It’s a bigger message to all things parenting.

 

00;22;05;03 – 00;22;06;01

Mallory Whitmore

It’s not the.

 

00;22;06;01 – 00;22;19;06

Dr. Mona

One thing that we do. It’s not the toy that you buy. It’s how are you utilizing it in a big picture on raising your child, you know, and it’s sad to me, and I know you agree that the problem with this breast versus, you know, it shouldn’t be for.

 

00;22;19;07 – 00;22;20;05

Mallory Whitmore

Yes, I know so.

 

00;22;20;05 – 00;22;38;14

Dr. Mona

Many people who do both. I know so many people who make a choice to not ever breastfeed or breastfeeding. They want to breastfeed till their child’s five. Whatever it is, you need to be informed. And the problem when we shame mothers from the beginning of their journey, we don’t give them hope at all. Meaning we from the beginning of the day they became a mom.

 

00;22;38;20 – 00;23;01;08

Dr. Mona

We have created shame and guilt in their mind. And what does that do with their bond with that child? Now, every time they look at their child and their child gets sick, they blame themselves. Their child doesn’t meet a milestone. They blame themselves. The child gets X, Y, and Z. They blame themselves. That’s not how health works. And that I want parents to drop that guilt and say, hey, look, I am doing the best with my resources.

 

00;23;01;11 – 00;23;21;14

Dr. Mona

I am a pro breastfeeding pediatrician who happily formula fed my son, and I will never look back and regret that decision. This kid is thriving. He even had a stroke and I know a part of me like I went through like, well, I feel a little guilty for that week of well, breastfeeding will provide him this extra boost because I was fed that right.

 

00;23;21;17 – 00;23;22;05

Mallory Whitmore

No no no.

 

00;23;22;05 – 00;23;39;26

Dr. Mona

No, he had a stroke. So I knew that what he needed was the environment. He needed enriching activities. He needed a mother who loved him, a mother who was present. And the best way that I could be present for my son was to not be attached to a pump. And to not listen. And it allowed me to be more available to him.

 

00;23;40;01 – 00;24;02;12

Dr. Mona

And that availability is what I think mothers need to remember that mental ability. Like if this is the reason, breastfeeding or whatever the reason whatever is, that you’re not able to connect with your child. I need you to get the resources you need, whether that’s lactation consultant, whether that’s formula education, whether it’s sleep training, whatever it is, so that you can better connect with yourself and your baby.

 

00;24;02;16 – 00;24;18;28

Dr. Mona

Because there is always an answer. I mean, there is always a solution. And I don’t think parents like that. And you have to let go, like you said earlier, of that expectation of, well, I have to do it this way. Do you really have to continually are fed that narrative? And that’s why you feel that way, you know?

 

00;24;18;28 – 00;24;30;22

Dr. Mona

Yeah, you need to do what’s best for you, whether that’s breastfeeding till your child is however old or whether it’s formula feeding from the day that baby opens their eyes. You know, it’s so important to change that narrative for moms.

 

00;24;30;25 – 00;24;57;03

Mallory Whitmore

Well, and I always encourage parents to that, the judgment and the shaming and the disapproval of your parenting choices, unfortunately, does not stop with feeding, it continues, and learning how to strengthen that muscle early on to say no, this is what’s right for me. This is what’s right for my baby. I am the parent. I can make a good choice for my baby based on the circumstances of our life.

 

00;24;57;06 – 00;25;21;00

Mallory Whitmore

Learning how to do that early on with feeding benefits you so much in the long run. And so it’s difficult. It’s difficult for a lot of families to do, especially, you know, if your in-laws have input or your extended family has invalid or the grandmothers or whatever, everybody has something to say. But learning early on to say this is the choice I’m making for my baby, I’m not going to justify it.

 

00;25;21;00 – 00;25;30;17

Mallory Whitmore

I feel good about it. Gosh, that’s such an important skill and it makes the rest of your parenting going forward so much easier. It’s so much easier. Yes.

 

00;25;30;17 – 00;25;48;15

Dr. Mona

Oh, like you said, just start so downstream. Like, I mean, and the reason why I’m so passionate about this is exactly what we said, is that this is the first major decision that you have to that you have to own as a mother, you know, and and you have to own and say, I made this decision. And I’m sure people have asked you like, why do you feel so at peace with these decisions you make?

 

00;25;48;15 – 00;26;08;05

Dr. Mona

And I tell all my followers, I’m like, I am so at peace with the decisions because I am a pediatrician, I am very informed. But it’s not even just that I’m a beautician. I have a lot of insight and open mindedness to the other side. Like I know that middle ground approach that says, okay, I’m making this decision because I made the best decision for the information and resources I have as a mother.

 

00;26;08;05 – 00;26;28;17

Dr. Mona

Not you have not what someone else has. And I made that decision. That decision may change as things evolve or you learn new things. But this is what I’m making and I own it. And when you start to own it and you start to feel like, oh yeah, this was something I love to do and I see the benefits and you will like anyone who’s like listening to this, that is formula feeding their baby and feel super guilty.

 

00;26;28;24 – 00;26;31;26

Dr. Mona

You’re not going to even blink when in five years.

 

00;26;31;26 – 00;26;33;04

Mallory Whitmore

No, you’re not playing.

 

00;26;33;04 – 00;26;52;16

Dr. Mona

On the playground and you will not know the difference between a child who is formula fed and breastfed. I want you know that motto of if it won’t matter in five years, don’t spend more than five hours thinking about it. I say five minutes, but five hours? Like, I want you to really reframe and say in the long run, I see formula fed babies thrive.

 

00;26;52;19 – 00;27;08;17

Dr. Mona

I do, I mean, I would not be on this podcast like talking about this if it wasn’t the case. I see it in my office, I see them and it comes down to that big picture, like you said, and it really comes down to that mother or parent deciding, how am I going to navigate this for my entire parenting journey?

 

00;27;09;16 – 00;27;25;18

Mallory Whitmore

Yeah. And so what you mentioned specifically about owning it I think has an additional benefit, which is that when we decide we’re going to own it, we’re not going to apologize for it. We’re not going to feel bad about it. That gives others in our circle the permission to do the same. And I think there’s a lot of formula.

 

00;27;25;18 – 00;27;47;03

Mallory Whitmore

Guilt comes from feeling isolated because it can be in some communities. So hush hush, no one talks about it because no one wants to feel judged or shamed. Everybody’s hiding the fact that they’re using formula because they don’t want to come off a certain way, and then that perpetuates the stigma. That formula is something to be ashamed about when we own it.

 

00;27;47;03 – 00;28;15;03

Mallory Whitmore

When we talk about it, then it gives other people permission to say, as a mom, my needs and my beliefs and my feelings matter too. And this is what works for me, which, you know, as you mentioned, it’s always going to benefit the baby. And so I always encourage folks to think about, you know, yes, do this for yourself and your family in terms of owning it, but also know that when you own it, you’re helping other moms to not feel the way that you felt.

 

00;28;15;05 – 00;28;32;08

Dr. Mona

And this goes into like, I think, you know, we talk about formula breastfeeding, we talk about any decisions we make as moms. But the vulnerability and transparency in motherhood, especially on social media, is so important. I mean, I think about mental health struggles. I think about, you know, you talked about how it affected your mental health. I don’t think people understand that.

 

00;28;32;08 – 00;28;53;07

Dr. Mona

Like I posted about that and a man like a husband, number one of my followers was like, doc, can you explain more about how breastfeeding can impact a mom’s mental health? Because I’m seeing that happen with my wife. And I was like, this is such an important concept that for some women, that stress of not producing that stress, they’re not sleeping, all of that, it compounds and and for some women and the solution is formula.

 

00;28;53;07 – 00;29;07;23

Dr. Mona

And I love that. I love that they made a choice. But it really comes down to owning it, the vulnerability and really the judgment. Stopping like, I will not tolerate judgment. I mean, I’ve had so many people, like still, I’m sure I don’t know if you get it on your and I’m like, you know, you all know where I stand.

 

00;29;07;23 – 00;29;30;12

Dr. Mona

Like you can come here all you want, but you’re never going to sway me. Because know what we’re saying? Me and you are extremely middle ground in that you. You are trying to help mothers, help fathers, help people get educated on family and the opportunities and just have informed decision making. But to say things are superior, to say that, well, I’m better than you because I did X, Y, and Z.

 

00;29;30;14 – 00;29;45;28

Dr. Mona

That’s not how motherhood works. I’m better for my child. What I do as a mom, for my son, I think is great for my son, but that doesn’t mean that much because I did it for my son. That I assume that everyone else wants to do what I did because that’s what’s best for you, you know? Right?

 

00;29;46;00 – 00;30;10;07

Mallory Whitmore

To put off so much of it is, I think, a privilege issue when we assume that what I am able to do for my kids is what’s right for everybody else, it assumes that everybody else has the ability and resources to do what we do. Right. You know, so when people come in my comments and they say, oh, formula feeding is selfish, oh gosh.

 

00;30;10;11 – 00;30;26;22

Mallory Whitmore

You know, for me, I’m like that. I am so happy for you that you were able to breastfeed. I am so glad that that I know for you. But were you able to stay home or did you have to go back to work in two weeks? Were you able to afford a lactation consultant? Do you have a partner that helps at night?

 

00;30;26;22 – 00;30;48;23

Mallory Whitmore

Do you have other children who are out because of Covid and you’ve got four kids. You’re trying to homeschool virtual learning like there are just, you know, maybe your baby didn’t have a tummy or maybe you don’t have low supply. There are so many factors that influence whether or not even whether a mom is able to breastfeed or not, but how a mom ends up feeding that.

 

00;30;48;23 – 00;31;00;23

Mallory Whitmore

It’s. To me, it’s such a privileged position to say, well, every mom should just do it this way, because not every mom has the same resources and the same context that they’re trying to feed with it.

 

00;31;00;25 – 00;31;20;01

Dr. Mona

Oh, this is so good. I completely agree with that. And that is where I think a lot of the shaming comes. And that’s where I just feel so frustrated. I feel so frustrated for a lot of women on social media that are consuming content, because I know and I think, you know, that you’ve reached a level of insight to understand the big picture, parenting, the big things that we’re doing.

 

00;31;20;08 – 00;31;44;16

Dr. Mona

It hurts me like I almost get emotional thinking about. It pains me when I feel such sadness for these mothers. Like I hear their guilt. I hear their shame. I hear that sort of I failed my child. I’m like, let’s talk about that. Let’s talk about why we think you failed. And I reframe it. And even if it’s not even just talking about this, let’s say it is something that was kind of caused by a parent, meaning an injury where a child rolled off of a bed.

 

00;31;44;16 – 00;32;06;28

Dr. Mona

And yes, we know that you shouldn’t put your child on the bed. Okay. Yes, that all exists. But what is the point of saying, well, you should have done this. You should have done this. Let’s focus on what we’re going to do now and show some damn compassion. I mean, the lack of compassion, what you said perfectly to understanding that everyone’s resources is unique and everyone’s access to what they have, like you said, are they homeschooling?

 

00;32;06;28 – 00;32;37;15

Dr. Mona

Do they have a supportive partner? I have seen this happen in the pandemic. Where are the freaking lactation consultant like they disappeared. I know all disappeared and they’re not doing in-person sessions. I’m sorry. In a pandemic, an in-person session trumps Covid risk. Yeah, like it’s all these stupid rules that are greatly impacting. And then we don’t even think about our general health care system and general work life balance that has pushed breastfeeding but does not support moms to be able to go back to work and have safe pumping guidelines.

 

00;32;37;18 – 00;32;45;26

Dr. Mona

No paid maternity leave. I mean, we have create a society that’s calling moms, breastfeed, breastfeed, breastfeed, but we are not going to support you in breastfeeding. You figure it out on your own.

 

00;32;46;04 – 00;32;52;10

Mallory Whitmore

There is no framework, especially for working moms to actually breastfeed successfully. Absolutely not.

 

00;32;52;11 – 00;33;14;03

Dr. Mona

The amount of mothers that have told me that, hey, I’m going back to work. So I’m expecting this formula. It breaks my heart not because I’m again against formula progressing doesn’t matter, because I feel so sad that if their dream was to breastfeed and I want to support their dream, I want to do whatever I can to support your dream of how you want to feed your baby, but also respect your mental health and respect your resources.

 

00;33;14;07 – 00;33;39;05

Dr. Mona

But at some point, to know that they may not have the time to pump because their employer says that they’ll support, but they don’t. And I have experienced this myself, is that it is so heartbreaking to me, like it’s not right. And it’s a bigger system, the systemic, systemic issue with you all. Sorry. So passion about this that people don’t get like, I love that you’re at home and that you got a year off and that you’re a stay at home mom and that you are able to do it.

 

00;33;39;12 – 00;33;57;12

Dr. Mona

But some stay at home moms don’t like breastfeeding. Some stay at home moms like you. People don’t get that. Everyone’s choices can be so unique, and if it’s not affecting you, this does not have any impact on your life. Whether your friend breastfed or formula for their son has no impact on you. So why does it matter? Like why does it matter?

 

00;33;57;12 – 00;34;09;20

Dr. Mona

Like just let a family decide what they want to do. It’s like their choice, you know? Yeah. The only thing that I mean, we’re not even talking about this. The only thing that matters in any parenting choice is vaccination. Because if you don’t vaccinate your kid, you’re, you know, it’s transmissible diseases.

 

00;34;09;25 – 00;34;11;21

Mallory Whitmore

Yeah, I’m talking about everybody else.

 

00;34;11;25 – 00;34;29;12

Dr. Mona

That is the only, only decision. And I’m gonna say parenting decisions that affects other people. Everything else just raise a kid, feed your kid. And if you don’t want to sleep, train whatever, I don’t care. Just don’t guilt, shame, or shame other mothers for doing things where that does not impact you at all.

 

00;34;29;14 – 00;34;31;08

Mallory Whitmore

Right now, I completely agree.

 

00;34;31;09 – 00;34;43;03

Dr. Mona

Oh my God. Oh man, this is so great Mallory. I am just so grateful. I know you’ve given so many great motivating pearls, but what would be your final, you know, uplifting message for everyone listening today?

 

00;34;43;05 – 00;35;12;07

Mallory Whitmore

Oh gosh, I feel like I have so many, but generally speaking, just the knowledge that when you become a mother, your experiences, your values, what is important to you and your identity itself does not become meaningless. So many of the people that I talk to, especially through Instagram, will say I hate breastfeeding or this is painful for me, or my mental health is tanking, but I have to prioritize my baby’s needs over myself.

 

00;35;12;09 – 00;35;13;07

Dr. Mona

 

00;35;13;10 – 00;35;39;16

Mallory Whitmore

And what I want to tell parents is that number one, that’s not sustainable, that is not sustainable. And number two, you cannot be a good parent unless you’re taking care of yourself as well. You know, like they say, put on your own oxygen mask before you help your baby. Yeah. When you’re flying on a plane and so, you know, I just I see so many people who are so convinced of the benefits of breast milk that it is costing their family so much more.

 

00;35;39;17 – 00;36;15;04

Mallory Whitmore

They’re losing so much. And, you know, the balance of that is so off kilter, right? They’re getting these small benefits of breast milk, but they’re having these huge detriments from their depression or their pain or being disengaged or disassociated. And so I guess my biggest thing is just encouraging moms that it is important. Your experience of eating your baby’s important, your enjoyment of feeding your baby is important because that’s going to impact your overall relationship with your baby, which is going to impact healthy babies so much more than what you’re feeding them.

 

00;36;15;07 – 00;36;42;01

Dr. Mona

Absolutely. You know, I’ve said this before, but I rather have a mom formula feed their baby and feel connected and emotionally bonded with their baby. Then a mom who is tapped out from breastfeeding and hates it and just despises the act like, completely. And I’ve seen this happen that is not creating a bond. You’re not bonding with your baby and being present with them in these moments of cooing and, you know, interaction when you need it.

 

00;36;42;03 – 00;37;02;28

Dr. Mona

And you don’t have to hate like there are options out there. You hate it. We have options. Do you want a pump if you don’t like pumping, I understand. Do you want to go to formula? But you have to reframe and ask yourself, what are my goals? And when you ask yourself and answer that question, you also have to tell yourself, can I and will I be flexible with my goals?

 

00;37;02;28 – 00;37;20;11

Dr. Mona

Because that is what? Yes, joy as a mother, anything you do, you can’t just be so rigid and say, well, I’m going to sleep, train and I’m going to feed my baby this and I’m going to do baby led weaning, and I’m going to do this because what happens is our babies and children are not robots, and they may not stick to what you want to do.

 

00;37;20;11 – 00;37;31;21

Dr. Mona

And then now your expectations are not meeting reality. And that leads to guilt. And that leads to feeling like a shitty mom. And you’re not a mom. You’re not like you’re just a mom who’s learning and your baby’s learning too.

 

00;37;31;23 – 00;38;08;08

Mallory Whitmore

Yep, that’s another of my little gems that I give to. Especially expecting parents is to write all of your plans in pencil. Yeah, give yourself so much grace and be open to changing your mind when the circumstances of your situation evolve and demand a different outcome. I think so much of the guilt, even the postpartum depression, can come from trying to fit a round peg into a square hole, because we get stuck on this idea of what our motherhood is going to look like, what a perfect mom looks like, and when our experiences don’t line up, that disconnect really is really damaging.

 

00;38;08;08 – 00;38;19;20

Mallory Whitmore

So yeah, absolutely. Especially for folks who are just entering parenthood, learning early on to sort of hold everything with an open hand, to have your plans, but being willing to adjust. So, so important.

 

00;38;19;23 – 00;38;34;18

Dr. Mona

Mallory, thank you so much for joining me today. We could talk for another four hours, but, you know, seeing everyone, I think people got the point of what we’re trying to say on this episode. But where can people find you? You know, tell me more about the resources you have out there for the world and the community here.

 

00;38;34;21 – 00;38;56;07

Mallory Whitmore

Absolutely. So I am on Instagram, TikTok and Twitter at the formula mom and my website is the formula romcom. And I have a bunch of free and paid resources all around formula feeding. So I have a handbook. If you’re just getting started and you want bottle feeding basics, I have a formula finder tool if you want to start using formula and you’re not sure which type of formula might work best for your baby.

 

00;38;56;14 – 00;39;07;24

Mallory Whitmore

And then I also have an index, which is basically, what’s the word? I can’t think of it. An index is the word I got. You have all of the formulas on the market. Wonderful pictures of each one.

 

00;39;08;04 – 00;39;25;25

Dr. Mona

And I will put these all on my show notes. And again, I want to really thank you and appreciate you for coming on this amazing, I hope, empowering episode for so many listening, because I know so many mothers are formula feeding their babies and feel guilty about it. And I hope you can overcome that guilt and reframe how you feed your baby.

 

00;39;25;25 – 00;39;27;01

Dr. Mona

Thanks again for joining me today.

 

00;39;27;06 – 00;39;29;12

Mallory Whitmore

Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.

 

00;39;29;13 – 00;39;44;02

Dr. Mona

Thank you for tuning in for this week’s episode. As always, please leave a review. Share this episode with a friend. Share it on your social media. Make sure to follow me at PedsDocTalk on Instagram and subscribe to my YouTube channel. PedsDocTalk TV.

 

00;39;44;04 – 00;39;45;04

Dr. Mona

We’ll talk to you soon.