Have you ever found yourself staring at a brightly colored gummy bottle in the pharmacy aisle, hoping a quick supplement fix will finally give you a full night of uninterrupted sleep? The promise of an easy solution is incredibly tempting, but what if these trendy sleep hacks are actually masking deeper behavioral shifts your child really needs?

In this episode, I connect with pediatrician and sleep medicine specialist Dr. Craig Canapari to separate social media fiction from clinical fact when it comes to pediatric sleep aids. Dr. Canapari breaks down the true neuroscience behind melatonin as a hormone, shines a light on the dramatic rise in accidental supplement overdoses, and uncovers what the data actually says about the viral magnesium foot rub trend.

• The Rise of the “Purple Aisle”: Why exhausted parents and heavy marketing are driving an unprecedented surge in pediatric sleep supplements.

• Melatonin is a Hormone, Not Candy: The vital distinction between a natural biological trigger and utilizing exogenous melatonin as a hypnotic knockout pill.

• The Nuance of Dosing: How melatonin can genuinely support neurodiverse children (like those with autism or ADHD) and why timing it right is everything.

• The Poison Control Warning: The alarming 500% spike in melatonin overdoses and the critical danger of loose food supplement regulation.

• Diving into the Magnesium Hype: Sorting through the TikTok claims of magnesium sprays and lotions to find out if there is any real pediatric evidence behind them.

• The True Root of Sleep Issues: Why natural fads often act as a barrier to established, highly effective behavioral sleep hygiene adjustments.

• The 20-Second Sleep Pitch: Dr. Canapari’s foundational pillars—from consistent wake times to the ultimate goal of independent sleep—to safely reclaim your family’s rest.

Connect with Dr. Craig Canapari on Instagram @drcanapari, visit his site ⁠www.drcraigcanapari.com⁠ and buy his book It’s Never Too Late To Sleep Train: ⁠https://amzn.to/45UnnlX⁠  (paid link)

Sleep edit podcast:

⁠https://drcraigcanapari.com/podcast/episode-12-melatonin-and-magnesium-oh-my/⁠

IPSA position paper on melatonin in typically developing children:

⁠https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1389945725000474⁠

Magnesium:

⁠https://drcraigcanapari.com/magnesium-for-kids-sleep/⁠

⁠https://drcraigcanapari.com/magnesium-sprays-and-lotions/⁠

Melatonin:

⁠https://drcraigcanapari.com/should-my-child-take-melatonin-a-guide-for-parents/⁠

⁠https://drcraigcanapari.com/melatonin-overdoses⁠

• 00:00:00 – Introduction to Sleep Supplements

• 00:00:41 – Meet Dr. Craig Canapari

• 00:03:10 – Dr. Canapari’s Background & Yale Pediatric Sleep Center

• 00:06:44 – The Rise in Supplement Use

• 00:10:41 – Melatonin Explained: How It Works & Dosing Risks

• 00:18:10 – When Melatonin Can Be Beneficial

• 00:22:00 – Magnesium for Kids: Hype vs. Evidence

• 00:33:09 – Topical Magnesium Sprays & Safety Concerns

• 00:43:56 – Foundational Sleep Habits & Independent Sleep

• 00:47:35 – Closing Thoughts & Where to Find Dr. Canapari

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00;00;24;10 – 00;00;41;15

Dr. Mona

Welcome back to the show. It’s Doctor Mona, host of the PedsDocTalk podcast. And yes, I’m giving a big stretch because I am tired and we’re going to be talking about sleep supplements today. Stay tuned. Whether it’s your first episode or 200. Just a quick thank you because you are showing up and that’s what keeps the show going.

 

00;00;41;17 – 00;01;01;10

Dr. Mona

So thank you for listening sharing. Watching on YouTube we have a new little intro. We have more surprises up our sleeve. I cannot wait to share this fall, but I am bringing a highly requested discussion with a highly educated person on the topic today. Have you ever stood in the vitamin aisle wondering if a melatonin gummy is going to fix your kids bedtime habits?

 

00;01;01;13 – 00;01;21;25

Dr. Mona

Have you seen influencers share that they give their kids melatonin? Have you ever wondered if magnesium spray is actually doing anything? Or if you’re just rubbing it onto your child’s feet, hoping something magical will happen? I know you’ve probably seen that on social media. Have you ever felt like you are one bad night away from trying literally anything to make your kids sleep?

 

00;01;21;28 – 00;01;47;17

Dr. Mona

Today’s guest is Doctor Craig Canapari and this man knows sleep. He is a pediatrician, sleep medicine specialist, researcher, and the director of the Yale Pediatric Sleep Center. He wrote the book It’s Never Too Late to Sleep train. And if you have ever searched online about kids and sleep, there’s a good chance his work has already found you. We are talking about the huge rise in kids sleep supplements, especially melatonin, magnesium sprays, gummies, all of it.

 

00;01;47;23 – 00;02;08;02

Dr. Mona

What the science actually says. What is hype and what is worth a real conversation with your child’s clinician? If you feel like you are one exhausted, scroll away from ordering whatever supplement the internet is selling this week. You are not alone, but you need to listen to this conversation before you do so, stick around and if this episode helps you, you know what you need to do.

 

00;02;08;06 – 00;02;36;18

Dr. Mona

Subscribe to the channel so you don’t miss any other future episodes. Download this episode because that’s what helps us grow. And share it on social. Tag us at @thePedsDocTalkpodcast, @pedsdoctalk And Dr. Craig Canapari at @drcanapari so more people can find this episode. Thank you for being here. And let’s get into this amazingly important conversation about sleep supplements.

 

00;02;36;20 – 00;02;39;08

Dr. Mona

Thank you so much for joining me today, Doctor Craig.

 

00;02;39;10 – 00;02;41;21

Dr.  Craig Canapari

Hey, my pleasure, doctor Mona, thanks so much for having me.

 

00;02;41;25 – 00;03;08;10

Dr. Mona

I am so grateful. Like I said, your name has been in my life. Obviously as an online presence. I know all the major players in all the different arenas. And when I say arenas, you are a respected resource in the sleep world. And so I obviously am a general pediatrician. And so whenever I’m trying to educate my followers, whenever I’m doing research on the stuff that I’m trying to educate, I’m looking at people who are experts in those niches, and you are one of those.

 

00;03;08;10 – 00;03;18;27

Dr. Mona

So it’s an honor to have you on. For anyone who’s not familiar, tell us what it is that you do at the Yale Pediatric Sleep Center and why you found your home and sleep medicine.

 

00;03;18;29 – 00;03;48;08

Dr.  Craig Canapari

Sure. So it’s funny. And, Doctor Mona, I’d be curious about your experience. I would say that I had maybe one hour of education about sleep in medical school and 1 or 2 hours in residency. So it is something that we do not learn much about. And actually, when I was doing my fellowship training, which is my training after residency, I did it in, pulmonology, but I started doing sleep apnea research.

 

00;03;48;10 – 00;04;16;24

Dr.  Craig Canapari

And then I realized when I was finishing my sort of fellowship, that I was really going to need being an during a lot of behavioral questions. Yeah. Which, was less in my wheelhouse. I was really living more in the sleep apnea domain. So I started educating myself about sleep issues. And actually, that’s when I started my website was in 2002, 2011, or 2012, I can’t remember which because I’m like, oh, I’m writing out these handouts for parents.

 

00;04;16;24 – 00;04;51;04

Dr.  Craig Canapari

I’ll just publish it online. Yeah. So what we do at the Pediatric Sleep Center and in pediatric sleep clinics across the US, we help kids with a broad cross-section of sleep problems. So children who have problems falling asleep or staying asleep, you know, issues we call insomnia, children that may have problems that emerge during the night, obstructive sleep apnea, parasol manias, which are things like sleepwalking or night terrors, issues like movement disorders, like restless leg syndrome, and also children that sleep too much who may have problems with issues like narcolepsy.

 

00;04;51;07 – 00;05;17;09

Dr.  Craig Canapari

So if that sounds pretty broad, I mean, sleep problems are incredibly common. Yeah, I think like 40% of parents are going to talk to their pediatrician about a sleep problem at some point during childhood. And often for pediatricians, these are very time consuming issues to address. And, it’s what when my friends in adult medicine calls a doorknob complaint like you do your primary care checkup, they’re like, that’s great.

 

00;05;17;09 – 00;05;25;03

Dr.  Craig Canapari

Everything’s going well. The doctor as their hand on the doorknob. Yeah. And then the parent will say, oh, by the way, my child is not slept through the night for six months. Yeah.

 

00;05;25;03 – 00;05;26;28

Dr. Mona

You’re like, well, let’s go back in here.

 

00;05;26;28 – 00;05;48;09

Dr.  Craig Canapari

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So it’s very exciting to help parents, help kids sleep better because when the kids sleep better, the whole family sleeps better. Yeah. And I’m, I’m very fortunate to have a great team where I work. We have three sleep labs, which is where we do testing for conditions like obstructive sleep apnea. We have multiple physicians board in sleep medicine.

 

00;05;48;14 – 00;06;05;26

Dr.  Craig Canapari

And in the last year we’ve hired a, a sleep psychologist who has really helped us build out our behavioral services, at our program as well. So it’s it’s a you know, I love working at sleep medicine. It’s very satisfying. And I’m very fortunate to work with great people.

 

00;06;05;28 – 00;06;24;03

Dr. Mona

I love that and I, I’m very intrigued about the obviously sleep psychology, as we know everything’s so connected. I know that when I’m stressed or anxious, obviously my sleep is not going to be as great. I just had a therapy session talking about what I need to do to get better sleep because of my anxiety right now. So I think it’s so important the work that you’re doing.

 

00;06;24;03 – 00;06;44;10

Dr. Mona

Like I said, I do believe sleep is foundational. It’s probably the most important thing, for our health, that we often overlook. And a lot of the times, parents, you know, I know this is not the topic of our conversation, but a lot of times parents can think that, oh, it’s just my kid. It’s not an issue. When in reality, like you’re saying, there are legitimate sleep issues that need to be addressed for children, right?

 

00;06;44;10 – 00;07;04;12

Dr. Mona

Like sleep apnea, narcolepsy, children who are, you know, sleeping too long or too little, like what it is that we’re doing. And I think the reason why I’m so excited about this conversation that we’re having today is we are seeing a major rise in parents turning to supplements, right? Especially melatonin and magnesium, to solve their kids sleep struggles.

 

00;07;04;15 – 00;07;23;10

Dr. Mona

In your opinion? Obviously, I’m sure you’re dealing with talking about this stuff all day, every day. What do you feel is driving this surge? Obviously we have social media, but what is driving the surge and why might it be concerning coming from someone like yourself who deals with so many other medical behavioral issues when it comes to sleep?

 

00;07;23;13 – 00;07;49;08

Dr.  Craig Canapari

So I think that the issue is, is that many sleep issues that parents deal with are behavioral issues and behavioral issues are challenging to deal with. It’s like if if let’s take a example from another branch of medicine, say you’re trying to lose weight. Would you like to take a pill that makes you lose weight? Or would you like to measure what you’re eating every day, go to the gym three times a week, etc.?

 

00;07;49;11 – 00;08;12;26

Dr.  Craig Canapari

I think that the fact is, parents, like, everybody’s really stressed. There’s a lot going on in the world right now. And sleep issues tend to reduce appearance, sort of internal reserve to deal with issues. Yeah. So I think the idea of being like, oh, I could give my child a gummy or a medication and that’s going to make things better is very appealing.

 

00;08;12;29 – 00;08;35;16

Dr.  Craig Canapari

When you add into it, there’s a tremendous amount of marketing that is behind this. Like, if you go into your pharmacy now, there’s what I call the purple aisle. It’s like, yeah, there’s like cough and cold. And then there are the whole section. Everything is purple. And those are all sleep supplements for kids and adults. And it’s it’s remarkable that was not the case five years ago.

 

00;08;35;18 – 00;09;11;16

Dr.  Craig Canapari

And for melatonin certainly we can get into this. There are clear indications and utility for it. But most children should not need melatonin supplementation. And if they are using it, they should be using it under the supervision of their pediatrician. Magnesium is, has much less of a research backing to support its use, though there there may be some theoretical benefits, but, now that seems to be right now in the what I see on social media, what you see, if you look at Google searches over time, that is something that parents are very interested in, right?

 

00;09;11;18 – 00;09;26;13

Dr. Mona

Yeah. I mean, those two are heavily coming on my channel as well. Right? Like, hey, what are your thoughts about magnesium? I’ve already done some work on melatonin and using some research out there. And I wanted to hear I want to hear from you so that we can solidify and maybe make sure that I’m getting the right info to show you.

 

00;09;26;15 – 00;09;47;23

Dr. Mona

So, yeah, I mean, you are right on about the marketing, and I, I’m sure there’s some psychology why it’s purple because it’s very calming. Probably the purple. But no, this is really important. And, you know, we had already alluded to this one thing that I’m concerned about. And I think you dealing with so many, not just you’re dealing with behavioral concerns, but you’re also dealing with true other other concerns.

 

00;09;47;23 – 00;09;53;24

Dr. Mona

Right. What I have seen and I did another podcast with, Shelby Harris, she’s a adult sleep doc, I think.

 

00;09;53;26 – 00;09;56;26

Dr.  Craig Canapari

You’re familiar with I know sleep talk Shelby very well. All right.

 

00;09;56;29 – 00;10;27;05

Dr. Mona

We were we had a really great conversation about, ADHD boundaries like sleep boundaries and behavior and then also sleep apnea. And also just the fact that not always is a behavioral, but sometimes parents can mask issues or not get help or seek out help because they just assume that, okay, well, I’m just going to do this quick fix, whether it’s magnesium, whether it’s a placebo effect with the magnesium or whether it’s like we’re going to talk about melatonin when we’re not addressing real issues like ADHD or, you know, things like sleep apnea.

 

00;10;27;09 – 00;10;41;20

Dr. Mona

So that’s something that I think is so important. And so if you haven’t listened to that, that’s another episode that, is really useful for our listeners. But I would love to talk about melatonin because I think this is and magnesium is also important too. But this is the one that I’m hearing a lot from, families in my community.

 

00;10;41;26 – 00;11;04;16

Dr. Mona

And it’s easy to forget that melatonin is a hormone. It’s not just a gummy. Right. And especially because they’re in accessible ways for children, it just seems like a vitamin when it’s so much more than that. Right. What the biggest misconceptions about melatonin supplementation for sleep and what should parents know about safety and long term use or anything in general with that melatonin that they’re reaching for in that purple aisle?

 

00;11;04;18 – 00;11;25;22

Dr.  Craig Canapari

Sure. So let’s unpack just by starting like what what what is melatonin? As you said, it’s a hormone right and right. Right there. Often parents hear that they’re like, oh, that’s surprising because it’s not like we’re routinely in the business of giving hormones to our children either way. Right? Right. Like you could argue that vitamin D is technically a hormone, meaning a chemical that has effects in the endocrine system in the body.

 

00;11;25;25 – 00;11;46;23

Dr.  Craig Canapari

But it’s not like if your kid’s doing poorly, little league, you’re like, oh, I’m going to go get my kid some testosterone gummies, right? Then I’ll start hitting some home runs, right? Like, that’s not how we sort of know that, you know, hormone therapy for other reasons, like in professional athletics, is not a good idea. So melatonin is a hormone that our bodies naturally make and people call it the hormone of darkness.

 

00;11;47;00 – 00;12;07;10

Dr.  Craig Canapari

So usually your your pineal gland, which is in the center of your brain, will start producing a very small amount of melatonin about an hour before you fall asleep. And when that’s detectable in the bloodstream, that’s called the dim light melatonin onset. That will stay high until about an hour after you wake up. If you’re falling asleep and waking up at the same time.

 

00;12;07;12 – 00;12;35;16

Dr.  Craig Canapari

And it has effects throughout the body, just sort of saying it’s bedtime, it’s darkness, it’s time to settle down the interest. And really, if you take the fancy where we have exogenous melatonin, if you’re taking melatonin from the outside versus melatonin that your body’s making, it has two effects. And the first effect. And this is why most people are using it is called a hypnotic effect, which simply means sleep inducing.

 

00;12;35;21 – 00;13;04;19

Dr.  Craig Canapari

Right? Like you, like using it like a sleeping pill. You take the medication and you have this idea that sleep will be easier within 30 to 60 minutes. Right? And this is an important thing for parents and adults to, to understand is that any medication and I would call melatonin it’s a medication. It’s not anesthesia. Right. Like there’s no guarantee that like this is this doesn’t mean that oh you’re it’s not a knock out pill.

 

00;13;04;19 – 00;13;22;24

Dr.  Craig Canapari

Your kid’s not going to fall asleep immediately. Even if your doctor says melatonin is a good idea, you still have to do make the room dark. Make them quiet, have a good bedtime routine. Have a consistent time, etc. these things don’t work. If there’s a disco ball going in your kid’s room and you’re on and everybody’s running around and acting crazy.

 

00;13;22;29 – 00;13;37;17

Dr. Mona

And also to your point, you just mention it beautifully that if you’re going about at one and that’s your routine, and now you’re like, yeah, I just want to give them a medicine. Like there’s no parents often forget the importance of routine. I mean, we need that too, as adult humans, like, you know, to be able to sleep at the times that we need to.

 

00;13;37;17 – 00;13;38;28

Dr. Mona

But I love that you already brought that up.

 

00;13;38;28 – 00;14;03;14

Dr.  Craig Canapari

Well, and the other thing is, since you’re mentioning someone who has, a later bedtime, which in is, is this is the summertime currently when we’re recording this, a lot of, teenagers, naturally, as they move through adolescence, they stay up later and get up later. Yeah. And, so a teenager going to bed at one in the morning and getting up at 9 or 10, if that works with their work or the school schedule, or is that their college schedule?

 

00;14;03;14 – 00;14;30;08

Dr.  Craig Canapari

It’s not that crazy, right? But we would call that a later circadian phase. So coming back to melatonin, the second effect of it is what’s called a current abiotic effect. And that simply means it has the potential to shift your sleep schedule in one direction or the other. And just when we think about the two biggest chrono biotic triggers, meaning ways we have to adjust sleep schedules, there’s melatonin and light exposure.

 

00;14;30;15 – 00;15;01;21

Dr.  Craig Canapari

So melatonin pulls your schedule towards it. So if you take melatonin in the evening and we can talk about how you dose it differently for this, it will over weeks move the sleep schedule earlier. If you took in the morning, which we very seldom do in pediatrics. But sometimes they might do in the adult world when people are going to bed too early and getting up too early, it will it will pull the sleep schedule earlier, whereas light exposure in the evening pushes the schedule later, and light exposure in the morning pushes the sleep schedule earlier.

 

00;15;01;24 – 00;15;23;00

Dr.  Craig Canapari

So going back to the antibiotic effects of melatonin, if I have a teenager that I want to move their sleep schedule earlier outside of all the sleep hygiene stuff, I will start them on a very small dose of melatonin 0.25 to 0.5 milligrams, about 5 or 6 hours before their time they’re falling asleep, and that over time will shift their schedule earlier.

 

00;15;23;03 – 00;15;44;11

Dr.  Craig Canapari

And if this sounds like there’s some nuance to it, there really is. And this is the sort of thing I’d say to parents, talk to your doctor about this. Like, and in general, if I have a take home for your listeners, if you are struggling with your child’s sleep, whether you’re thinking about a supplement, your child’s on a supplement, whatever, please work with your pediatrician because you should not have to suffer and your child should not have to suffer.

 

00;15;44;11 – 00;16;21;15

Dr.  Craig Canapari

These issues are generally very fixable. Yeah. So anyway, you were also talking about the potential downsides of melatonin. So I think the biggest thing that’s on my radar for melatonin is the alarming rise in overdoses of melatonin. So it is now the most reported overdose to poison control centers. And there is a study in the which is a publication by the CDC, which came out in 2022, which said there was a 500% increase in reported overdoses in the previous ten years, like, which is nuts.

 

00;16;21;22 – 00;16;42;03

Dr.  Craig Canapari

And I think this has to do with the availability of this. The fact that melatonin does it is not required that there be childproof packaging on melatonin. Yeah. This was you have to get to in the weeds. But because of some legislation called fast in the 90s, it’s considered a food supplement. And these are gummies. These are literally look like candy to a child.

 

00;16;42;04 – 00;17;05;06

Dr.  Craig Canapari

Yeah. So if your child, you know, wants something sweet and they see that purple bottle and they’re like, why not help myself to some of this candy? And then you can really, you know, you can run into some dangerous situations. I think the other things to worry about look dosed appropriately. There’s not a lot of evidence long term that it has terrible, you know, really significant side effects.

 

00;17;05;08 – 00;17;28;13

Dr.  Craig Canapari

But here’s the other interesting thing. The maximum recommended dose for a kid less than 90 pounds of three milligrams and for, for 90 pounds and up adults to is five milligrams. And you will see gummies in the market that are ten milligrams, 20mg, 30mg. So someone is selling a product that is well in excess of the actual recommended dose.

 

00;17;28;18 – 00;17;29;02

Dr.  Craig Canapari

Yeah.

 

00;17;29;02 – 00;17;29;21

Dr. Mona

Wow.

 

00;17;29;24 – 00;17;54;00

Dr.  Craig Canapari

And the side effects, you see if the dose is too high. First of all, it can actually cause awakening in the middle of the night. So parents are like, oh, melatonin helped a little bit. My kids waking up more, they increase the dose and it gets worse. You can also get nightmares. And you can get, since our body naturally turns off the melatonin when we’re waking up, you can have it extending into the daytime and causing daytime sleepiness.

 

00;17;54;01 – 00;18;10;15

Dr. Mona

Yeah. And I think it’s so important that we hear that. And I thank you so much for talking about the study with the safety. That’s something that E.R. doctors have been seeing a lot of, and continue to obviously, with the with the rise of how they look so much like candy and how they are gummy, obviously, that they look like.

 

00;18;10;21 – 00;18;33;08

Dr. Mona

Exactly. And they, they can taste delicious. And so I think it’s so important that we remember that from a safety standpoint. Now, I know there’s so much nuance to this, but there are obviously reasons that a child may benefit from melatonin is their current criteria that says okay, X, Y or Z, or is it more like a situational, event where we’re deciding to do melatonin or where there might be benefit to to have melatonin on board?

 

00;18;33;10 – 00;18;52;06

Dr.  Craig Canapari

So I think there’s some context where there’s a really robust research base and there’s a good recommendation. I’ll send you, the interest. Sorry. The International Pediatric Sleep Association just came out with a pretty good position paper on this, which I can, I can send to you and you share with your readers. But I’d say let’s kind of go down the list.

 

00;18;52;06 – 00;19;17;06

Dr.  Craig Canapari

The the, the most robust evidence is actually in the domain of autism. So autism is a common neurodevelopmental disorder. And it is very commonly associated with issues with sleep onset and sleep maintenance, insomnia. So there there are a number of trials looking at short and long term trials of melatonin resulting in improvement in this patient group.

 

00;19;17;08 – 00;19;44;19

Dr.  Craig Canapari

Okay. Yeah. Not in everybody. That hypnotic effect doesn’t work in everybody. The chronobiology effect does. But I think for for children with autism, it is something that I prescribe very commonly in my practice. It it has a relatively good side effect profile for people on other psychiatric medications. And it definitely has a place. But again, even in kids with autism, it’s important that parents still get all the other details, right?

 

00;19;44;26 – 00;20;13;02

Dr.  Craig Canapari

Right. Children don’t have access to the screens at night. The room is dark and quiet. They have a calming routine. Children with ADHD. Also, there’s a reasonable, robust, sort of evidence base for this. So kids with ADHD who have issues with, mood and behavior regulation, those issues don’t stop in the evening, at bedtime. Right. And a lot of kids will actually kind of, actually be crazier in the bedtime.

 

00;20;13;07 – 00;20;37;02

Dr.  Craig Canapari

Yeah. There’s a sleep scientist named Koretz Levy, who’s Israeli who talked about this idea of the forbidden zone, which is, this idea at the end of the day that you maybe have two windows where you can fall asleep fairly easily. One is on the earlier side and was on the later side. So for parents, if you’ve ever gotten your kid to bed, you’re lying down, you’re cuddling them, and you’re like, it’s 8:00.

 

00;20;37;02 – 00;20;56;27

Dr.  Craig Canapari

I could go to sleep right now, and then you get up and you’re like, you’re me. You’re folding laundry. You’re watching TV, and you’re like, wide awake at 10:00 at night. You’re kind of in the middle of that zone right there. Yeah. So. So anyway, gig back for kids with ADHD, there’s a there’s a pretty good evidence base, too, that it can be helpful for the kids with autism and ADHD.

 

00;20;56;27 – 00;21;20;09

Dr.  Craig Canapari

Often it’s dosed a little bit earlier than parents. Think it should be. Not. I wouldn’t give it 15 or 30 minutes before bedtime. I give it an hour or two before the desired bedtime for the maximum effect. And the way we titrate the doses in our, in our clinic is we start at a very low dose at half a milligram, and we go up by half a milligram a week until we really reach the maximum dose for weight or until you get a good effect.

 

00;21;20;11 – 00;21;42;19

Dr.  Craig Canapari

Yeah. Because at times kids have a great response to half a milligram or a milligram of melatonin. And although this seems reasonably safe stuff compared to some prescription agents we use, I still think that you want to use the least amount of medication that you can to help your child, and hopefully that’s no medication, right? Some children really do need help.

 

00;21;42;21 – 00;22;02;06

Dr. Mona

Now let’s take a quick break to hear from our sponsors who support helps us keep bringing you this show. You know I love it. Thank you so much for doing that, because I know we were talking about risks and safety in that and I, I myself have prescribed it, and had that conversation with a lot of my neurodiverse children and their families.

 

00;22;02;06 – 00;22;21;21

Dr. Mona

And that goes back to your original point, is that if you’re having any sleep issues, you’re speaking to your pediatrician, opening that conversation. You’re and I love the other point you made already about not letting go of the other important sleep hygiene. In terms of like, you know, screens before bed, but also dim lights, dark room, like all that stuff matter as well.

 

00;22;21;21 – 00;22;43;18

Dr. Mona

It’s not like, hey, let’s put the melatonin, but you’re not really following up with anything else besides that. And I think that’s such a key message. If we’re going to be adding any medication or supplement, and the other big one that again, is making a bigger move and I didn’t know about until I had this online presence because I didn’t I don’t have patients coming to me asking me about magnesium is, you know, it’s having a moment.

 

00;22;43;21 – 00;23;07;19

Dr. Mona

Gummies, powder sprays. And the most common way is foot rubs and foot lotions. Like all these videos on TikTok and Instagram about people rubbing magnesium lotion marketed by whatever company, for helping their child sleep, and then also saying that it worked. My kids slept through the night and they never used to sleep through the night. So from the evidence, is there any evidence that magnesium helps kids sleep?

 

00;23;07;21 – 00;23;11;00

Dr. Mona

And does topical magnesium actually do anything?

 

00;23;11;03 – 00;23;21;09

Dr.  Craig Canapari

So I think this is a super interesting question because my first first, let me offer a full disclosure, is that I do take magnesium glycine, and I think it helps my.

 

00;23;21;12 – 00;23;24;12

Dr. Mona

I do too. Okay. Well this is good information.

 

00;23;24;14 – 00;23;28;07

Dr.  Craig Canapari

And according to my ordering, my sleep tracker, it actually does seem to help.

 

00;23;28;07 – 00;23;35;24

Dr. Mona

That is so funny. I do too. And I just started taking it and it I have to say I was like, oh, this is actually pretty good. Yeah. But who knows?

 

00;23;35;24 – 00;23;56;06

Dr.  Craig Canapari

Yeah. Okay, so so I guess we can drill down a little bit because magnesium like it’s if you look at, you know, I have an article on my website about this, but you can see in the last couple years the searches for magnesium sleep have gone through the roof. Yeah. And again, it’s an interest in natural supplements for sleep as opposed to prescription medications.

 

00;23;56;09 – 00;24;27;07

Dr.  Craig Canapari

I would argue that anything that you’re putting into your body, you have to use the same level of scrutiny. Right? Like sometimes people privilege something that’s natural versus something that’s not. And I’m like, if you’re putting it in your body or your child’s body, the standard of the standard you hold it to should be the same. Yeah. I will say that all of these things, that magnesium is an interesting one because you can take magnesium supplements for people who say have like renal issues, etc. those are essentially treated by the FDA as medications.

 

00;24;27;09 – 00;24;51;26

Dr.  Craig Canapari

And if you write for 320mg of like, magnesium carbonate or something, that’s what you’re going to get in the bottle. So for things that are marketed as food supplements and this is true of melatonin, magnesium, I’m honestly less sure about this. Melatonin. The quality controls are not good. So if you if you’re giving your kid a milligram of melatonin, studies have shown that can be from -50 to positive 500%.

 

00;24;51;26 – 00;25;12;09

Dr.  Craig Canapari

What the dose you’re giving. Yeah. So if you’re giving a milligram your kid could be giving five milligrams. It could be getting half a million. So that’s another reason to start slow and go higher. So going back to magnesium, it’s a mineral. It’s not a hormone. Right. And the symptoms of magnesium deficiency interestingly are pretty similar to the symptoms of stress.

 

00;25;12;12 – 00;25;49;12

Dr.  Craig Canapari

So symptoms of stress fatigue irritability nervousness muscle tension headache the symptoms of magnesium deficiency or tiredness is the anxiety right. Like there’s a lot of overlap there. What I was interested in, what I found is that a lot of authors seem to think that magnesium deficiency was becoming more and more common. It’s difficult to diagnose. And the reason is if you test someone’s blood level, the magnesium is an important mineral in the body and the body will keep that value in range even if you’re low.

 

00;25;49;12 – 00;26;19;15

Dr.  Craig Canapari

But your your stores of magnesium in your brain, in your bones, in your muscles is low. So it’s the way that they’re sort of inferring that a lot of people are magnesium deficient, are just looking at people’s diets. So magnesium isn’t like things like green leafy vegetables which we know people don’t eat a lot. Yeah. And the final thing that I thought was so interesting about this is because of depletion of the soil and changes of farming, the amount of magnesium in produce has actually gone down quite a bit over time, which is nuts.

 

00;26;19;15 – 00;26;25;02

Dr.  Craig Canapari

Like, I didn’t know that. Yeah. I don’t know how much nutrition training you got in your residency.

 

00;26;25;06 – 00;26;28;15

Dr. Mona

Same, same amount as, sleep.

 

00;26;28;18 – 00;26;30;02

Dr.  Craig Canapari

Yeah. Yeah. Right.

 

00;26;30;02 – 00;26;39;27

Dr. Mona

Yeah, a lot of it. Well, nutrition came a little more in residency, but still, I it could have been even more so, let’s be honest. And then a lot of it came self-taught as I started like, practicing with all this. Yeah.

 

00;26;40;04 – 00;27;02;00

Dr.  Craig Canapari

Because what are you in residency? How to write total parental nutrition. So nutrition and IVs. Yeah. And you learn formulas, right. Like baby formulas. So there are medical conditions associated with low magnesium, type one diabetes, celiac. And I’d say more common in your population. My combination kids, they’re obese seem to have lower magnesium levels and also picky eaters.

 

00;27;02;06 – 00;27;33;03

Dr.  Craig Canapari

Right. Very common, especially if you look at kids with autism. Yeah. Being very, very selective about what they eat. Is a feature of the disorder or severe magnesium deficiency, the sort you detect in a blood test? It’s very uncommon and it’s kind of obvious abnormal heart rhythms, muscle spasms, etc.. So the background of this is, oh, maybe there are maybe we’re all walking around with a little bit less magnesium than we should, because we live in modern diet.

 

00;27;33;05 – 00;27;55;03

Dr.  Craig Canapari

We don’t raise our own vegetables. We eat a lot of processed food. That’s it’s the term we would use is biologically plausible, right? Like your magnesium is low. Maybe you should have more magnesium. And that magnesium itself seems to stimulate some of the receptors in the brain, like the Gabbar receptors, which are associated with increased sleep. Now here’s the problem.

 

00;27;55;06 – 00;28;24;08

Dr.  Craig Canapari

And this is that there are like 5 to 8 trials showing that magnesium helps with sleep. They’re all in adults and they’re mostly in elderly adults. There’s a placebo controlled study of 446 elderly adults, not a big trial in terms of medical trials. And it seemed to help with, total sleep time, sleep efficiency, which is how much time you’re sleeping when you’re in bed and reduce time to fall asleep.

 

00;28;24;10 – 00;28;48;19

Dr.  Craig Canapari

Patients with diabetes and insomnia seem to be helpful, right? So if you have a diabetic that may be helpful in another study of 20 elderly adults, show that increased slow wave sleep and EEG, I can only find two studies in the literature looking at this in children. Yeah, one was a study of 14 infants from 1980, which is like in the medical literature.

 

00;28;48;19 – 00;29;08;25

Dr.  Craig Canapari

It’s like saying it was from like, you know, 1700. Right. Exactly. Yeah. Giving the infusing these kids, giving them IV magnesium resulted in more quiet sleep, which is analogous to slow wave sleep. But again, hopefully parents are not putting IVs in their kids and giving them magnesium infusions, right? I’m guessing they’re not, I hope yeah.

 

00;29;09;01 – 00;29;15;21

Dr. Mona

Or getting advice from some other holistic doctor to do so, which is not we don’t have any evidence of safety. So let’s be honest.

 

00;29;15;23 – 00;29;47;06

Dr.  Craig Canapari

Yeah. Did you think there was a study of 40 kids with ADHD, magnesium improve daytime attention, behavioral symptoms? They did not track sleep. So maybe these kids were better during the day because their sleep was better at night. But that is extrapolating. So there is really no good evidence that this helps with kids. And I’ve got to say, as a specialist, it’s not that uncommon that we’re writing for off label medications, which is the fancy word.

 

00;29;47;13 – 00;30;13;23

Dr.  Craig Canapari

We’re writing for medications that have evidence in kids. But now adults. That being said, we have such good evidence for high quality bedtime routines, behavioral treatment, which in little kids we call sleep training and older kids we might call cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia, which has there are tons and tons of studies that these things work. And one of the things in general, I think in health care right now, Mona, I’m sure you see this too.

 

00;30;13;26 – 00;30;23;11

Dr.  Craig Canapari

People get very focused on like supplements and like these little we think about adult stuff, like people getting obsessed with like cold plunges and stuff like that.

 

00;30;23;14 – 00;30;36;08

Dr. Mona

Yeah, there’s a lot of fat, like, there’s just a lot of fat. And it’s all like a silo of the same people seeing the same thing. Do this, do that, supplement continuous glucose monitors, and it’s going into childhood. And that’s why I think it’s so important that we’re talking about that. Yeah.

 

00;30;36;08 – 00;30;54;24

Dr.  Craig Canapari

And I would say get the basics right. Right. Get your kids bedtime right. Work on their routine. That’s and if you’ve dialed that all in perfectly, then maybe you think about this just like, yeah, you could do cold plunges all day long, but if your diet’s not on point and you’re not exercising, you’re not going to get in better shape.

 

00;30;54;24 – 00;31;15;25

Dr.  Craig Canapari

Right? Right. So I think that the the, the best way, if you’re worried your kid’s magnesium is low is to give them more food. With magnesium they’re gonna absorb it better. It think minerals minimally processed whole foods, leafy green vegetables, nuts and seeds, almonds and, pumpkin seeds have a ton of magnesium whole grains like brown rice or kimura.

 

00;31;15;29 – 00;31;17;15

Dr.  Craig Canapari

And also dairy products as well.

 

00;31;17;17 – 00;31;19;18

Dr. Mona

Yeah, all the yummy things that kids love.

 

00;31;19;18 – 00;31;22;10

Dr.  Craig Canapari

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I feel like.

 

00;31;22;15 – 00;31;24;08

Dr. Mona

Dairy products itself. Yeah. No, I’m.

 

00;31;24;08 – 00;31;54;02

Dr.  Craig Canapari

Sure there are allergy concerns and there are concerns in young kids, but, I’d say that you have a big article on all of this. I love actually the, the, there’s a great, review from, the NIH on how with the recommend doses are magnesium by age. So I say if a parents giving a supplement or even considering a supplement, make sure that you want to look at, elemental, magnesium.

 

00;31;54;02 – 00;32;18;07

Dr.  Craig Canapari

And basically nine years and up the max is 350mg. I don’t think the milligrams are that important. People can look this up on this web, this thing you’re going to provide. And the other thing is, is magnesium is also used sometimes for the treatment of, constipation. So like the ones that are poorly absorbed, like magnesium hydroxide, are going to make you poop like crazy.

 

00;32;18;10 – 00;32;47;09

Dr.  Craig Canapari

A lot of constipated people out there. But, for parents to be aware, poorly absorbed forms magnesium carbonate, chloride, gluconate oxide all tend to result in loose stools. So you ask then about magnesium sprays and lotions, which I agree, there’s so much on social media about this. Now, I’m not going to name a link to this, but somebody this started, with an influencer, got like 1.5 million views.

 

00;32;47;11 – 00;33;09;19

Dr.  Craig Canapari

Yeah, like magnesium lotion. And a 2024 study showed that there was a 220% year over year growth in interest on this online. Wow. Yeah. So that’s big. And I think that the appeal of, like, a lotion or a spray is like, oh, I’m not putting it inside my child’s body. So maybe that’s a little bit safer.

 

00;33;09;21 – 00;33;32;17

Dr.  Craig Canapari

Let me say that, you know, going, this is I was this skeptical and I don’t recommend this, but there there is a study in adults with various medical conditions, the topical forms of magnesium can sometimes increase your blood levels of magnesium, which I was surprised by. I said I wanted it not to be the case. Right. Like that’s easy to say.

 

00;33;32;19 – 00;33;33;05

Dr. Mona

Exactly.

 

00;33;33;05 – 00;33;57;27

Dr.  Craig Canapari

Yeah, but a review article, they said there’s really there’s really insufficient evidence. The people that showed that it was helpful, a trial of 20 adults with chronic kidney disease with a mean age of 79 seemed to be helpful for neuropathy or nerve pain. And in six adults with ileostomy where they’re like, they have a bowel surgery where they’re losing magnesium, right.

 

00;33;57;29 – 00;34;18;07

Dr.  Craig Canapari

None of these studies in adults looked at sleep specifically. None of there’s no research showing that magnesium sprays or lotions help kids sleep better. I mean, I think that if the if they’re working, maybe someone has a relaxing bedtime routine about.

 

00;34;18;07 – 00;34;34;01

Dr. Mona

It, right? That like, is there is there? My thought is that is there some sort of placebo with it that you’re doing something? So maybe if they store, you’re less likely to go in and do something about it, and maybe you’re allowing them some more self settling. Maybe it’s relaxing and that’s why they like it. I mean who knows right.

 

00;34;34;02 – 00;34;36;18

Dr. Mona

It’s that’s exactly my my was going to be my next question.

 

00;34;36;19 – 00;35;00;06

Dr.  Craig Canapari

And I would say my concerns about this would be I have a couple of concerns of parents are using this. First of all, how much are they spending for it? Right. Like if it is a if it is a cost that is meaningful to them and they could use that money elsewhere. I mean, many people are dealing with economic and certainly, I would say that you could try just find a nice smelling lotion that’s cheaper and see if that works as well for you.

 

00;35;00;09 – 00;35;09;11

Dr.  Craig Canapari

Right. You could cause some skin irritation. And again, these are not FDA regulated. I don’t know what’s in there, you know, how.

 

00;35;09;11 – 00;35;18;08

Dr. Mona

Much and do we know the exact absorption? I mean, you’re talking about these are kids, and we don’t have studies on the safety of, like, how much is too much, or is it even doing anything?

 

00;35;18;14 – 00;35;46;04

Dr.  Craig Canapari

Exactly. And I’m like, you know, I’m a big believer in generally not yanking people’s yam. You’re like, oh, my life. I’m like, your child’s otherwise thriving. I wouldn’t say I, you know, but I might say if you’re still struggling, we do have things that work better. Right. And I the other thing I worry sometimes with some of these alternative, alternative natural treatments is sometimes they can be a barrier to trying things that actually work.

 

00;35;46;06 – 00;36;07;09

Dr.  Craig Canapari

And, the fact is, I sit in a little bit of a different situation than you do Moana. Like, people come to me, they’re often to waited a long time. Yeah, I’ve tried a lot of the easy stuff. You have those close relationships with the family over time, and you build that trust. And I think that as providers, it is.

 

00;36;07;11 – 00;36;29;10

Dr.  Craig Canapari

The flip side is you don’t want to immediately poo poo something. Someone says, I try this and change my life. It’s very easy to say, well, well, I see your M.D. or something like that. Yeah, yeah. The fact is that sometimes we don’t know everything and sometimes the woowoo does work, right. Like, but I always just want to know that, you know, how much they spending on this?

 

00;36;29;13 – 00;36;51;09

Dr.  Craig Canapari

Is it causing skin irritation? Is it preventing them from doing other things that they maybe should be doing for their child’s health, like, you know, and just sort of having a, mindset of being open to talking about things with these people so they feel safe bringing them up. But also, you know, reflecting that there’s there’s not a lot of evidence behind it.

 

00;36;51;11 – 00;37;12;29

Dr. Mona

Now, let’s take a quick break to hear from our sponsors who support helps us keep bringing you this show. Oh, well, I appreciate this because I share a lot of things on my channel around home remedies, and I. I’m an Indian American, and the reason I’m bringing that up is that culturally, we grew up on home remedies. I mean, this is what a lot of eastern Western medicine.

 

00;37;12;29 – 00;37;43;13

Dr. Mona

Right. And then I now practice in a practice where there’s a lot of, island people. So, Trinidad and, you know, a lot of Dominican and that is very culturally rooted in a lot of medical things that could be unsafe. But also many of them are not unsafe. And so I always ask myself whenever I’m doing these videos or talking, and this is why I asked you about like benefit risk is that if I’m going to say something, my thought is that if it’s a home remedy, if it’s magnesium on your foot, if it’s something I got to think first, is this harmful and what are the things I need parents to think about?

 

00;37;43;13 – 00;38;07;04

Dr. Mona

And you just said that, right? Is it causing irritation? Is it too expensive? Giving the idea that, hey, you can do this, but are you doing it every night? We don’t know how much is actually going through the skin and into the body. Like, I just need to tell you that even though I don’t have that answer, and I think approaching those conversations that way is so much healthier and why I think a lot of people resonate with my videos because I don’t I don’t poo poo.

 

00;38;07;04 – 00;38;27;21

Dr. Mona

I actually am very into, hey, I’m okay with all these home remedies and lotions and stuff like that, but as we have to make sure that it’s not harmful and that parents are consciously thinking and are not purchasing because some other influencer said it worked for my kid and my kid’s now sleeping 12 hours without giving context. Well, what was the routine like you said?

 

00;38;27;26 – 00;38;45;12

Dr. Mona

What was what? What was happening for wake ups? Like, how old is that kid? Because and I don’t want a parent who has a four month old who it’s very reasonable to be waking up to think that, oh, now I need to put magnesium on my kid’s foot, because a lot of times what happens in the consumer aspect on social is that people don’t think of context, right?

 

00;38;45;12 – 00;39;00;21

Dr. Mona

Like I do, because I’m a pediatrician, but a lot of the parents are not offense thinking of it. And then I’m hearing like, oh yeah, someone was using it for their two year old. But no, that okay. They’re using it for their two year old. There’s so much there. But I don’t think this is a smart idea for a four month old.

 

00;39;00;21 – 00;39;20;17

Dr. Mona

I just don’t think it’s safe because of the fact that one like, get let’s give this baby some time. Let’s do other behavioral interventions like you just mentioned before, we reach for a supplement, whether it’s on your skin or in your, in your, know, consuming it. And I think that’s such an important thing that you bring again, is that we have to have those conversations.

 

00;39;20;17 – 00;39;39;07

Dr. Mona

And it also goes down to that low pediatricians being willing to have those conversations, which, like you said beautifully, that some of some of my colleagues are very against the woowoo and they laugh at me when I recommend woowoo things. And I’m like, listen, this is even though there’s no evidence it’s not harmful. So I’m going to recommend it.

 

00;39;39;07 – 00;40;02;24

Dr. Mona

And I have gotten pushback from colleagues as well on Google. Things like golden milk, which is a type of drink that I drink whenever I’m sick, which I swear by, and a lot of my followers do too. But that is what I think we need to change with a lot of these supplement conversations. And I’m happy that you alluded to that, because it’s so important so that parents aren’t desperate going out, buying those things because their doctor was like, hey, I don’t know what you’re talking about.

 

00;40;02;24 – 00;40;05;05

Dr. Mona

I know more than you. That’s not going to help anybody.

 

00;40;05;07 – 00;40;31;01

Dr.  Craig Canapari

And I think like, yeah, if things are going really well, you don’t have to interrogate them quite so closely. Yeah. So of course you want to make sure that, you know, people are doing best safe practices. But I think too, that and this is, this is the nature of the online world we live in too, is that you’re going to get way more clicks from something that says, try this one sleep hack to fix your sleep instead of like, oh, well, you want to sleep, train your kid.

 

00;40;31;01 – 00;40;49;17

Dr.  Craig Canapari

This is probably going to take you a couple of weeks, and it might be a little bit stressful and difficult, and you’ll get there in the end. I mean, it’s just, I there’s something I think you do very well is in is as medical providers, we deal with a lot of nuance. And I just we just there aren’t quick fixes, right.

 

00;40;49;17 – 00;41;05;13

Dr.  Craig Canapari

Like, yeah. You know, usually it’s just the fact is parenting is hard. And when your kid’s sleeping poorly, it’s actually very hard because that is usually the only time that you don’t have to look you don’t have to deal with your kids, right? Like everybody loves their kids. But sometimes it’s nice to have like 8 or 9 hours rest with them.

 

00;41;05;21 – 00;41;06;12

Dr.  Craig Canapari

Yeah.

 

00;41;06;15 – 00;41;09;19

Dr. Mona

You’re like the downtime to just like, have silence. Yeah.

 

00;41;09;21 – 00;41;29;07

Dr.  Craig Canapari

You know, it’s and it’s so important. And I would say that to any parent out there, if you struggle with your kids, sleep, you don’t have to accept that as normal or the way that it is is you okay. And you don’t have to fix it today, but maybe start a conversation with your pediatrician about what’s going on, and maybe it’s normal development, like a three month old.

 

00;41;29;09 – 00;41;41;25

Dr.  Craig Canapari

Or maybe it’s a two year old who still taking three bottles a night. Yes, you made some changes there. You could sleep better, your child sleep better. Your marriage could be better. Every mental health a lot better.

 

00;41;41;25 – 00;41;44;04

Dr. Mona

Parental mental health. Yeah.

 

00;41;44;06 – 00;41;46;24

Dr.  Craig Canapari

It’s just hard to get that energy to deal with it.

 

00;41;46;26 – 00;42;05;23

Dr. Mona

I recently had a conversation with someone whose friend has a two year old that was waking up basically every hour to have a feeding a two year old, and I said, hey, at under one. Yeah, that makes sense. Maybe a toddler, like a younger toddler, but two were dealing with some sort of sleep association or something there. And we need to figure this out.

 

00;42;05;23 – 00;42;23;09

Dr. Mona

And it’s not someone I know, but it’s again, having those conversations. And if we are not willing to have those and if parents feel like they can’t have them, they’re going to struggle. And I like, you know, how valuable sleep is for the entire family unit. This is not even just about the child. This is about the mom, the dad, the grandma, whoever’s taking care of that kid.

 

00;42;23;15 – 00;42;41;00

Dr. Mona

If they’re up every hour at the age of two years old, like, of course we understand that early on, it’s going to be a lot of sleep, wake up a lot of weekends. That is not conducive that that can have a huge hit on mental health. And I love what you said about the the clickbaity, you know, sort of like do this hack and that’s how it starts.

 

00;42;41;00 – 00;42;56;23

Dr. Mona

And, you know, then there’s like a little link sticker to like purchase the item. And that is literally these parents that are coming in and they bring it into me and I’m like, listen, like and have these same conversations that we’ve just had is that, like, I, I want to be clear about the safety and efficacy of these things.

 

00;42;56;23 – 00;43;08;22

Dr. Mona

And it’s if I don’t have the information now, that doesn’t mean that it’s a harmful thing. And anyone who uses it is a horrible parent. But I just want to be transparent that this is what we know now. Right? And I think those conversations can really help.

 

00;43;08;27 – 00;43;29;13

Dr.  Craig Canapari

Yeah. No, it’s just and I try to treat, teach our trainees who are often coming right out of residency where they don’t have that continuity is like, you can’t have those conversations when you have a relationship with someone for you. Yeah. Which is great about primary care. But I I’ve patients too. I’ve seen for, you know, years since I came to my current institution.

 

00;43;29;13 – 00;43;56;07

Dr.  Craig Canapari

And it’s easier to have those conversations. Maybe not in the first visit, but over time you can, people can be more open about things, but, Yeah. No, I think it’s so important to, to get these things right and that, you know, it’s not as, it’s it’s very fortunate. You’re fortunate if you don’t have some horrible your child’s and some horrible medical problem, but you’re, you’re don’t feel bad about wanting to help your kid sleep better.

 

00;43;56;08 – 00;43;57;16

Dr.  Craig Canapari

It’s like incredibly valuable.

 

00;43;57;16 – 00;44;21;19

Dr. Mona

And you had mentioned, you know, about how some of the some of the times this can be sort of masking or we’re not doing basic foundational sleep habits. So if we can kind of reiterate, you know, there’s so many things out there in terms of like all these supplements and stuff, but how can families build two sleep habits if you had like an elevator pitch, like, you know, let’s say 20s, what would it be that you should focus on as parents for?

 

00;44;21;23 – 00;44;47;09

Dr.  Craig Canapari

First of all, it’s having a consistent bedtime for for for younger kids, for older kids to on consistent wake time is important. I think middle school and teenagers, little kids are going to get up when they’re going to get up anyway. You do. The second is having a consistent bedtime routine is so powerful, and study after study just is associated with high quality sleep, reduced nighttime awakenings.

 

00;44;47;11 – 00;45;08;04

Dr.  Craig Canapari

Having an early enough bedtime, I’d say for most. For most kids who are, before elementary school and even early elementary schools, like around eight is it works pretty well. Yeah. And there can be cultural components to that and stuff. You got to look at the context, but generally kids that go to bed earlier get more sleep, especially little kids, because they’re wait times tend to be fixed.

 

00;45;08;06 – 00;45;25;25

Dr.  Craig Canapari

And the final thing is working towards a goal of independent sleep at bedtime. If your child falls asleep with you at at bedtime and they have natural awakenings during the night, which they all will, they’re going to need you in the middle of the night, right? You learn to fall asleep on their own. They will. You will not hear from them during the night.

 

00;45;25;25 – 00;45;49;06

Dr.  Craig Canapari

And again, there’s a lot of controversy about extinction sleep training, also known as cried out. Although it is very safe, it’s not for every family, but there are many techniques to move towards independent sleep, especially in older kids that do not entail crying. That can be very powerful and lead to good outcomes. And, you know, we see this all the time with like elementary school kids who’ve never slept through the night, who’ve never danced with their parents.

 

00;45;49;06 – 00;45;58;28

Dr.  Craig Canapari

And we’re able to successfully get them there. So parents don’t feel like don’t feel like you’ve ruined your kid’s sleep or that you can’t fix it. I’ve been trying to give you a struggle with this. This can be.

 

00;45;58;28 – 00;46;19;04

Dr. Mona

Better. Fantastic elevator pitch because it’s exactly what obviously I feel the same way. And I love that you. I love that you said it in a perfect way of working towards the goal of independent sleep, because I think there is, again, that culture that it has to happen, that there’s also this sort of reward or like contest of like having it happen so early, but it is a goal that we want.

 

00;46;19;04 – 00;46;28;19

Dr. Mona

I mean, I, I did sleep train both my children with extinction methods. And again, I agree with you that it’s not harmful. But I also recognize that it’s not for everybody. But.

 

00;46;28;19 – 00;46;30;21

Dr.  Craig Canapari

100% of pediatricians do it. Yeah.

 

00;46;30;21 – 00;46;49;24

Dr. Mona

I mean, let’s be I’m, I’m happy. And people are always like, it’s, you know, and I’m, I’m always shocked when people are so shocked that we do that because they’re like, you should know better. Like, you know nothing about attachment. I’m like, I can tell you, I know a lot about attachment. And these kids are beautiful children. And they they got the independent sleep early, which meant more sleep for all of us.

 

00;46;49;24 – 00;47;03;22

Dr. Mona

And it was what worked for us. But that doesn’t mean if someone who’s listening to this, if you have a one year old and your kid’s not independent sleeping, we both agree that it doesn’t mean that it can’t happen, but the goal should be what is my out here? What is how are we going to get those skills?

 

00;47;03;22 – 00;47;25;16

Dr. Mona

Because I don’t want a seven year old, which I’ve had in my office. And I’m sure you’ve had who can’t independently sleep and is in school and struggling. I want us to be having those conversations early, and I know you want that too. And that starts with the general pediatrician. That starts with not feeling stigmatized about where sleep is so that we don’t have to go see someone like Doctor Kenneth Perry.

 

00;47;25;16 – 00;47;35;19

Dr. Mona

But if we do, we’ve had these conversations happen before, and I hope that was the message that people got from this conversation. What would be your final uplifting message for everyone tuning in today?

 

00;47;35;22 – 00;47;37;08

Dr.  Craig Canapari

Everybody deserves a good night’s sleep.

 

00;47;37;09 – 00;47;38;07

Dr. Mona

Yes.

 

00;47;38;09 – 00;47;40;19

Dr.  Craig Canapari

I can’t wait to hear.

 

00;47;40;21 – 00;47;44;06

Dr. Mona

I can’t wait to take my magnesium and go to bed because I recently.

 

00;47;44;08 – 00;47;46;06

Dr.  Craig Canapari

Released and the reason last night it’s.

 

00;47;46;06 – 00;48;05;19

Dr. Mona

So funny. I just started taking it like a month ago and I was like, oh damn, like this is actually helping. But I also, like I said, I, I did change a little bit of my routine a little bit. I started reading instead of scrolling, like there’s other things that were happening. But yeah, I mean, I also can make my own decisions and know that, you know, I’m not overdosing and things like that.

 

00;48;05;19 – 00;48;21;18

Dr. Mona

I probably wouldn’t give my kid personally. This is my personal opinion. Magnesium, because of the safety and efficacy that we don’t have. But again, everyone chooses their own own decision making after this episode. So thank you. Where can people go to stay connected with your the work that you do, resources, all of that stuff?

 

00;48;21;20 – 00;48;47;18

Dr.  Craig Canapari

Sure. We’ll put some links in the show notes, from my website. It’s pretty easy to find is Doctor Craig King of harry.com, because I couldn’t think of a good name for my website. It started, I have a very interesting podcast I do with a friend of mine named a named, R.L. Greenleaf, who is a sleep consultant and, well, we actually, I’ll link to an episode where we kind of delved into this a little bit as well.

 

00;48;47;21 – 00;49;06;19

Dr.  Craig Canapari

You know, if you’re in Connecticut or New York, I see patients via telehealth from New York and see patients in Connecticut come see us. We’re happy to to, to help. And I’m on social everywhere as, Doctor Kenneth Perry. But honestly, I don’t do a lot of social media these days for my sanity.

 

00;49;06;22 – 00;49;26;28

Dr. Mona

Yes, it’s a good call. It’s okay. Well, we’ll we’ll be sharing this video and I’ll be tagging you. And that’s the extent of your social. That’s perfectly fine. But thank you so much. Ooh, I told you you would love this one. And I actually have a YouTube episode about melatonin and sleep supplements. But I just love when I can get a professional in the space.

 

00;49;27;04 – 00;49;45;12

Dr. Mona

I’m a general pediatrician. I learn from my colleagues who have so specialized in things, and I have done my research. But I love when you get to hear the research as well. My brain is still processing all of that that I may need a melatonin tonight. My biggest takeaway is honestly just how much I love getting a real science breakdown from an actual sleep specialist.

 

00;49;45;14 – 00;50;03;07

Dr. Mona

Here’s the thing I want you to sit with though. Supplements like melatonin and magnesium are not regulated the same way medications are, that does not mean they’re automatically bad. It means they deserve real thought, not just a quick online order, because bedtime was rough three nights in a row. Talk it through with your child’s clinician before you start anything new.

 

00;50;03;13 – 00;50;27;24

Dr. Mona

That one conversation can save you a lot of guessing. And if you have a friend or loved one who is currently negotiating with a four year old at 9 p.m. for bedtime or looking online about melatonin dosing, send them this episode. This is the one you need to share and remember. Tag us at @thePedsDocTalkpodcast, @pedsdoctalk and tag doctor Craig Canapari of @drcanapari when you share.

 

00;50;27;27 – 00;50;39;21

Dr. Mona

Thank you for being here. Thank you for wanting to learn evidence based information that also comes with experience as well. Thank you for loving nuance because nuance is not always sexy. Stay well and I can’t wait to chat with you all next time.