Friendships after motherhood can feel complicated. Before kids, hanging out with friends might have been as easy as grabbing brunch or planning a last-minute outing. But now? Time, energy, and support look very different.

In this Follow Up episode, Dr. Mona revisits her conversation with relational health educator Danielle Bayard Jackson, author of Fighting for Our Friendships: The Science and Art of Conflict and Connection in Women’s Relationships. Together, they break down why building and maintaining friendships as a mom feels harder—and how to approach it with more grace and intention.

You’ll hear about:

• The three biggest reasons friendships fade after kids: lack of time, lack of practice, and lack of support

• Why connection (even small, everyday moments) matters just as much as long-standing friendships

• How to reframe expectations around old friendships that have shifted

• Practical steps to nurture the friendships you want, from “autopilot” routines to finding weak ties that still bring value

• The importance of reciprocity and how to express your needs without guilt

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00;00;00;01 – 00;00;20;06

Dr. Mona

Welcome back to the follow up. The mini Monday series on the PedsDocTalk podcast, where we revisit a past favorite episode of mine in less time than it takes to have small talk at a school event with a mom, you’ll probably never see again. I’m Doctor Mona, and before we jump in, remember the best way to help the show grow is by downloading the episodes.

 

00;00;20;12 – 00;00;42;21

Dr. Mona

Subscribing so you never miss one. And if you’re feeling extra generous leaving a quick review, it makes a big difference. And it’s what helps me continue to bring you amazing conversations. Now let’s get into today’s topic. As I approached 40, I realized something about friendships. Making new ones can feel harder than explaining TikTok to my parents. But at the same time, I’ve learned I prefer a smaller circle.

 

00;00;42;23 – 00;01;07;06

Dr. Mona

A circle where the goal is to grow together individually body, mind, and spirit without jealousy or competition. Protecting peace while cultivating real, meaningful connection. That’s why I’m excited to bring back Danielle Bayer Jackson on today’s follow up episode. A relational health educator who has spent years studying the science of friendship. She also has a book out called fighting for Friendships The Science and Art of Conflict and Connection in Women’s Relationships.

 

00;01;07;08 – 00;01;29;02

Dr. Mona

Today, we revisit the three reasons why friendships after motherhood are so hard to make and maintain. Why strong female connections are vital for our mental health. How to handle those passive friendships and practical ways to find meaningful connections amidst the chaos of motherhood? I know we’ve all been there. Tag me at the PedsDocTalk podcast and at Danielle Bayard Jackson.

 

00;01;29;02 – 00;01;39;29

Dr. Mona

That’s Bayard Jackson as you listen. I’d love to hear your thoughts. And let’s get into today’s follow up.

 

00;01;40;02 – 00;01;49;19

Dr. Mona

So many of us feel that we have these meaningful friendships before becoming a mother, and then they can disappear. Why do you feel like this happens?

 

00;01;49;21 – 00;02;07;04

Danielle Bayard Jackson

I think there are a couple reasons for that. The first is lack of time, lack of practice, and lack of support. And so first, with lack of time, I mean, you already know you’ve got these little ones. They depend on you in so many ways. And so not having the same amount of time available to nurture the friendships you did pre motherhood.

 

00;02;07;07 – 00;02;26;29

Danielle Bayard Jackson

And it’s really tricky because sometimes you don’t know what you’ve got until it’s gone. And so having little ones specifically you know can be really really demanding cognitively physically. And so some of us are burnt out afterwards of a long day with the kids, or we don’t have the extra time and the reserves to invest in the commute and to the hours long brunches.

 

00;02;27;04 – 00;02;42;16

Danielle Bayard Jackson

And so time seem to be the first or number one thing that people often say to me for why those friendships feel like they’re fading out is because we don’t have as much time as we did before to pour into them. And then the second thing will be lack of practice. And I always say, give yourself a little bit of grace.

 

00;02;42;17 – 00;03;01;08

Danielle Bayard Jackson

I know that’s like a mantra for moms, but you’ve never had practice being friends like this. You’ve never had to coordinate the schedule to work things in according to another human being. You’ve never had to do this. But for some of us, I think we experience so much dissatisfaction because we’re trying to apply the same scripts from free motherhood.

 

00;03;01;12 – 00;03;19;12

Danielle Bayard Jackson

And that’s not going to work. But never having the moment to pause and say, oh, I think I’m going to have to re learn how to navigate this because all of my conditions are different. So there’s good news. We can figure it out. But I just want to validate. Yeah that makes it challenging. And that’s what changes. And the last thing I’ll say is lack of support.

 

00;03;19;15 – 00;03;32;09

Danielle Bayard Jackson

You have to have a partner and community that support you. Having time to go and spend with your friends who encourage you to pause and go and be with your girlfriends. And a lot of us, unfortunately, don’t have that.

 

00;03;32;11 – 00;03;48;12

Dr. Mona

I mean, let alone trying to find that crew and that team that’s going to help your kid to take care of yourself. Like, obviously I look at relationships as fun. Like, I love getting to see my girlfriends and have fun, but also I also need to sleep. I also need to hopefully work out, you know, things that are also important for me.

 

00;03;48;12 – 00;04;10;09

Dr. Mona

Solo. So you’re already I feel like so many moms already struggling trying to find the time for them, let alone the connection with others, which we know is so important. But they don’t even have time for connection with self, which I found to be such a struggle with, especially these small children under five six years of age that are not yet in like a school system, that are like they’re very dependent from a developmental need and it’s so hard.

 

00;04;10;10 – 00;04;16;16

Dr. Mona

And why do you feel that that is so hard, that difficulty in finding and meeting new people?

 

00;04;16;18 – 00;04;39;26

Danielle Bayard Jackson

Yeah. So so it’s a couple things, but one thing I’ll say for the person who’s struggling to find new friends in the season is, you know, I focus on friendship, but, so it might sound strange to hear me say this, but I always say try to find ways that you can prioritize connection over friendship. Because one mindset I have heard from a lot of women is you’re carrying around this big, lofty goal day to day off.

 

00;04;40;02 – 00;04;57;19

Danielle Bayard Jackson

I need new friends. I need new friend. And that can put a lot of pressure. Maybe you don’t realize and you might be overlooking these small moments of connection with others. And in terms of like your your relational health and social health. If you just have one meaningful social interaction per day, if you can find a way to position yourself for that.

 

00;04;57;21 – 00;05;16;07

Danielle Bayard Jackson

I strongly believe that cultivating friendships would be a natural byproduct of that. So how can I do a lot of the things I’ve been doing alone? How can I socialize them by one degree, whether it’s reading in the park or taking the baby outside to walk around? Or like, how can I socialize my interests? How can I say hello to neighbors?

 

00;05;16;07 – 00;05;48;04

Danielle Bayard Jackson

I normally don’t speak to? I mean, I know this sounds very, very basic, but these are all opportunities to organically, quote unquote, you know, organically make friendships. But how are you prioritize in connection and what opportunities are you dismissing because you assume, oh, I can be friends with people like that, girls like that. I know that I definitely almost overlooked an opportunity to be plugged in to a mommy group when I had my first child, because I was like, I’m not a mommy group kind of gal, you know?

 

00;05;48;07 – 00;06;11;25

Danielle Bayard Jackson

That’s not my vibe. And I definitely made friends there some I did not. They were just surface level connections. But the research shows that we need those two sociologists referred to those as weak ties. People who maybe we’re not super ultra close, but you still add value to my life. Whether you’re giving me access to resources, whether you’re affirming a very unique problem that I have that my besties can’t relate to.

 

00;06;12;01 – 00;06;24;07

Danielle Bayard Jackson

I need all those forms and layers of connection. And so the first task I would give for the person who’s like, I want to make new friends is find a way to prioritize connection, and the friendships will follow.

 

00;06;24;09 – 00;06;47;22

Dr. Mona

Very beautifully said, because I think social media can also make it really hard to respect that your friendships can look different that week. Tie or like you said, the weak tie versus the bestie, right? Like you see a lot of women who go on girl trips with some of their friends, right? And you’re like, wow, I may not have that sort of community at this moment of my life, but I do have these people in my life that serve a really great purpose in providing me that connection.

 

00;06;47;25 – 00;07;20;20

Dr. Mona

And kind of going back to what you originally talked about with, you know, we talked about the friendships that we had before that may not be there. Now, one of the common things that I hear from a lot of my community and I’ve experienced as well, is that distancing of old relationships, like I had read a post somewhere that you know, adulting is wild because you could be besties with someone, and yet they still haven’t met your two year old, you know, like, and so there’s there is a culture around that, that even the friends that you like loved, like you have so many fond memories of and maybe don’t talk to every day may

 

00;07;20;20 – 00;07;30;25

Dr. Mona

not be in your life. Do you see that often from your clients and from your work that you’ve done, that those meaningful relationships don’t seem as meaningful? Or maybe they’re not as involved as they used to be.

 

00;07;30;28 – 00;07;34;13

Dr. Mona

Now let’s take a break to hear from our sponsors.

 

00;07;34;16 – 00;07;57;01

Danielle Bayard Jackson

Oh, sure. You know, and friendships, you know, they’re dynamic in the definition of dynamic means, you know, something that’s defined by constant change. And I think we know that intellectually, like, who among us doesn’t acknowledge that. Yes. But when it’s actually happening, it is very jarring because we’re trying to reconcile our expectations with reality. And I expected that you’d always be in my life this consistently and this deeply.

 

00;07;57;07 – 00;08;22;22

Danielle Bayard Jackson

And now you don’t know who my child is, who’s a very important person in my life. I don’t know what you do for work anymore, you know? I don’t know what you know. I mean, I don’t know what’s going on. And so, you know, a couple things that can help to kind of rectify that is one you have permission to say to your friend, I know a lot of things have changed and we’re both on the go, but man, it’s really important to me to to get back to our Friday morning FaceTime.

 

00;08;22;24 – 00;08;36;19

Danielle Bayard Jackson

Man. I really want to make sure we see each other once a month. And I tell you, I know for a lot of people that might feel awkward or really intense and we’re like, oh gosh, that sounds clingy. I want you to ask yourself, do I feel this dare to do that in other contexts of my life?

 

00;08;36;25 – 00;08;55;05

Danielle Bayard Jackson

Because when we go to work, there’s a natural time that’s carved out for performance reviews. How am I doing? What do I need to do more of next quarter? Okay. With your romantic partner, it’s normal to say, babe, I feel like we’re not connecting. What’s going on? I need more of this. I don’t know why it is that in friendship that feels extra risky.

 

00;08;55;11 – 00;09;14;06

Danielle Bayard Jackson

And we don’t want to say what we need. And we subscribe to the belief that it just ought to happen organically. But if you have friendship that a feed it out and you have a desire to reintegrate them back into your life, you’ve told permission to say, hey, I miss you. I know things are crazy right now, but are you down for like a Friday morning catch up, 30 minutes face time?

 

00;09;14;12 – 00;09;21;20

Danielle Bayard Jackson

I mean, whatever it is. But that’s one way to actively announce your desire, which I know feels very vulnerable for some of us.

 

00;09;21;22 – 00;09;42;23

Dr. Mona

Absolutely. I love how you talk about that, because we put so much priority in the parent child relationship, in our relationships with our romantic partners. But you’re right, there is this sort of uncomfortability and almost like the lack of wanting to create any sort of like uncomfortability of like, what are they going to say? You know? And I’m like, well, that’s probably part of the relationship.

 

00;09;42;23 – 00;09;59;15

Dr. Mona

And the connection is really if you love that relationship, see something about it. And, you know, one thing I always hear is, a frustration of a woman may feel like they’re putting in more effort, but then that woman is not returning it back, you know, and then they feel, well, why am I always the one trying to make the effort?

 

00;09;59;19 – 00;10;01;26

Dr. Mona

Do you hear that sentiment a lot too?

 

00;10;01;29 – 00;10;21;00

Danielle Bayard Jackson

Oh my gosh. If I had a dollar for every time I heard that we’d be having this interview for my house in Bora Bora, okay, like, yeah, it’s like the number one thing is like, reciprocity, which the research does show, is way more important to women in their friendships. The men claim to prioritize. Is reciprocity balanced equality?

 

00;10;21;00 – 00;10;25;06

Danielle Bayard Jackson

I want to know we’re both in this together. And so, yes, I’ve definitely heard that before.

 

00;10;25;08 – 00;10;43;23

Dr. Mona

And I will say you have two children as well. When I had one well before I became a parent, I would look at my friends who had children before me and I’d be like, wow, like, they’re so busy. Okay, I know that’s really hard having a kid. That’s fine. I had my first child using a pandemic, so things were like there was nothing happening besides just work in life.

 

00;10;43;26 – 00;11;02;17

Dr. Mona

And I was like, okay. And I would stay connected, you know, and I would reach out to my friends and I’m like, why is she responding? Like I’m a mom to like, what is it? And then I became a parent of a second child outside of the pandemic. And now I like to see a text message, and it takes me a week to even remember that I need to respond to that.

 

00;11;02;20 – 00;11;18;22

Dr. Mona

And it’s so it’s like, now I feel bad for all the like, why aren’t they getting back to me? Like, it’s not that bad, like we all are in the same boat. But I think there’s also this understanding that everyone has different resources, but also like mental capacity and mental load of like what they need to handle that.

 

00;11;18;26 – 00;11;32;20

Dr. Mona

It’s not always personal, I realize. And sometimes, like you said, the communication needs to happen like, hey, I missed you, we haven’t talked. When can we talk? Like not like? Yeah, holding it passive aggressive and all that. But I think many times some women do.

 

00;11;32;22 – 00;11;53;13

Danielle Bayard Jackson

Yeah. Oh my gosh I am like nodding in agreement 100%. And I know sometimes you know, this this popular concept of like low maintenance friendships is taking off like friends I don’t have to talk to. We’re still friends and I, I have strong opinions on that. I get it, but some of us need to be able to proudly proclaim I desire active friendships in this great in my life.

 

00;11;53;13 – 00;12;13;00

Danielle Bayard Jackson

That’s what I’m looking for is active support. And we are deeply integrated into each other’s day to day life. And so two things I would say to the woman who feels like, I want more, but I don’t know what to say. What’s going on? I would say two things. The first is narrow down your top three women because you can feel overwhelmed by thinking about all the people you want to catch up with and all the.

 

00;12;13;03 – 00;12;34;20

Danielle Bayard Jackson

Who are your top three? Okay, maybe they’re not deeply integrated into your life right now, but we’re just curious about them. That’s enough. Who are the top three women? I want to be intentional about finding a way we can put some aspect of our friendship on autopilot, because a lot of the issue is the scheduling. Okay. It’s it’s what can you do Tuesday at eight and let’s remove the mental labor.

 

00;12;34;26 – 00;12;52;09

Danielle Bayard Jackson

Hey, are you down to every other week we FaceTime on Fridays. Hey, you know, everyone say, do you want to walk with me in the park? Something manageable, something low lift and something we can commit to and put an aspect of our friendship on autopilot? That’s one way to start integrating a little more activity and predictability so you can work around it in your schedule.

 

00;12;52;12 – 00;13;10;13

Danielle Bayard Jackson

The second thing is, if you are frustrated because you feel like you have a lack of those deep connections, and the frustration is maybe amplified because you don’t have any connection. So you’re especially hungry for those three. You guys get plugged in to community as well. So like, yes, we need to be intimately known in these friendships, but are you involved in in anything?

 

00;13;10;18 – 00;13;29;00

Danielle Bayard Jackson

Because it might help to just be, among others, people who you share some aspect of your identity with, you know, some religious practice, some, you know, art thing that lets you bring the babies. I mean, but what else are you involved in where maybe the priority is not I want to make friends at this club. Maybe it. Hey, I really I’ve always had this interest.

 

00;13;29;00 – 00;13;47;21

Danielle Bayard Jackson

I’ve never been able to pursue it or hey, I think I know I need to connect with other people a couple times a week and just start there. So I think those two things will help to start to get us feeling a little more satisfaction. In our personal relationships.

 

00;13;47;23 – 00;14;09;05

Dr. Mona

And that’s your follow up. Just a small dose of the real, relatable and eye opening conversations we love to have here. If you smiled, nodded, or had an moment, go ahead and download, follow and share this episode with a friend. Let’s grow this village together for more everyday parenting wins and real talk. Hang out with us on Instagram at the Peds Doc Talk podcast.

 

00;14;09;12 – 00;14;24;24

Dr. Mona

Want more? Dive into the full episode and more at PedsDoctalk.com. Because parenting is better with support. And remember, consistency is key. Humor is medicine and follow ups are everything. I’m Doctor Mona. See you next time for your next dose.