In this “Follow-Up” episode of the PedsDocTalk Podcast, Dr. Mona catches up with pediatric occupational therapist Jessica Irwin (Rooted in Routine) to discuss how simple daily rhythms create predictability, lower stress, and reduce decision fatigue for both parents and kids. They break down why routines focus on the order of steps rather than rigid clock-watching, how to build healthy habits early on, and the simple non-negotiable areas that anchor a child’s day.

Episode Highlights:

• Routine vs. Schedule: A routine is about following the same steps in the same order, offering flexibility without the stress of strict clock-watching.

• Lower Stress & Tantrums: Predictability calms a child’s stress response, which improves mood, enhances sleep, and helps curb challenging behaviors.

• Empowered Parenting: Consistent daily flows eliminate constant decision fatigue, giving parents more confidence in their parenting approach.

• Early Circadian Rhythms: Starting on day one, exposing infants to morning sunlight and keeping nights dark helps lay the foundation for daytime/nighttime routines.

• The 5 Routine Non-Negotiables: Building simple rhythms around sleep, mealtimes, playtime, and outdoor time creates a solid, supportive daily structure.

• Evolving Bedtime Habits: Bedtimes naturally transition from quick newborn feeds to structured infant/toddler sequences (like baths, massages, and songs) that clearly signal sleep.

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00;00;00;02 – 00;00;27;20

Dr. Mona

Welcome back to the follow up. It’s Doctor Mona, and this is a series on the PedsDocTalk podcast, where we revisit a past episode in less time than it takes to actually get your toddler through their bedtime routine without a single stall tactic. That’s a whole other conversation for another time, but I’m running this one about routines and kids, why they matter, what they actually look like, and how to build them without turning your house into a military schedule.

 

00;00;27;22 – 00;00;45;09

Dr. Mona

Because here’s the thing. When people hear the word routine, they picture rigid clock watching. No wiggle room stress. If you’re ten minutes off. And hey, when I was a first time mom, I fell into this trap and quickly realized how it backfires for the child and us. But a real routine is not about the time on the clock.

 

00;00;45;09 – 00;01;13;27

Dr. Mona

It’s about the steps and the order. That’s what gives your child predictability. And predictability is what actually lowers their stress and helps with behavior, mood, and sleep. Same goes for use the parent. Less decision fatigue. More of what I like to call empowered parenting. In this episode, I talk with Jessica, pediatric occupational therapist and founder of Rooted in Routine, about five routine non-negotiables the areas of the day that we encourage every family to build a little rhythm around.

 

00;01;14;01 – 00;01;33;07

Dr. Mona

Whether your child is a newborn or deep into the toddler years. Remember to download and listen to the full episode wherever you get your podcasts, and tag at the PedsDocTalk podcast. PedsDocTalk and rooted in routine when you do. Let’s get into it.

 

00;01;33;10 – 00;01;54;01

Dr. Mona

I completely resonate with this because I also do see the benefits of routine for so many things for our children’s. Their behavior, especially, not only in the infancy ages, but also when they approach the toddler years and beyond. So kind of explain more about why you think they’re so important and how they can benefit not only the child but also the family.

 

00;01;54;03 – 00;02;13;24

Jessica Irwin

Totally. I love this topic. I like geek out on it. And, and I read through a lot of research on this too. So like a lot of these things, most of these things there is solid research behind. Which is great. So the first thing I do want to say, and this is kind of a little bit of a side note, but a routine is very different than a schedule.

 

00;02;14;02 – 00;02;37;22

Jessica Irwin

So the way we define a routine, I think that’s important because parents often confuse it with following a strict schedule. So when we say routine, what you really mean is following the same set of steps in the same order, whether that be for a certain tiny area of your day, like, you know, just bedtime or we think, you know, a general kind of broad routine that we follow for the entire day.

 

00;02;37;25 – 00;02;57;28

Jessica Irwin

So both are important. But what is great about routines is that they are flexible. They were not strictly dictated by the time on the clock. They’re really more dictated by the steps that you do. And you know what you do, what you don’t do and how you do those steps. That’s what really creates the benefits for your child.

 

00;02;57;28 – 00;03;08;08

Jessica Irwin

So I don’t want parents to get stuck up on, like, you know, following a strict schedule and stressing out about with nap times ten minutes off because trust me, I’ve been there.

 

00;03;08;15 – 00;03;11;01

Dr. Mona

Yep, you do it hard.

 

00;03;11;04 – 00;03;40;26

Jessica Irwin

But yeah, I wanted to mention that before, we dive into the benefits. So in terms of the benefits of routine, really, the biggest one is that they create predictability in both you and your child’s day. And so when your child’s able to have a sense of knowing what’s coming next, that predictability, it actually lowers their stress response and their anxiety response to their day, which then in turn we see can decrease things like challenging behaviors or tantrums.

 

00;03;40;28 – 00;04;04;27

Jessica Irwin

It can improve just overall mood and ability to get through the day without breaking down. It also improves sleep. It improves overall health. When our, you know, our general ability to self regulate and combat stress is low. And then for the parent like this is both personal and professional. I’ve seen it really leads to like what I like to call empowered parenting.

 

00;04;04;27 – 00;04;24;18

Jessica Irwin

So we feel more confident in how we’re structuring our child’s day, that we’re doing the right thing for their developmental age and stage. And also there’s just like less decision fatigue when things become routine, right? Like we’re not constantly thinking like, yeah, what am I serving lunch? How am I going to serve lunch today? Like, what does that look like?

 

00;04;24;18 – 00;04;27;22

Jessica Irwin

So that’s why I love them for us too.

 

00;04;27;25 – 00;04;44;19

Dr. Mona

Of course. And I love what you mentioned first about the flow being more important than the time. I mean, yes, we would like some resemblance of like not putting your pitch to bed at 1130 every night, but it’s okay if there’s that flexibility. And that’s what I mean by flexibility and routine, and that there’s going to be times where you’re stuck in traffic.

 

00;04;44;19 – 00;05;00;13

Dr. Mona

There’s going to be times where you’re going to meet a friend for something, and it’s okay if that routine timewise gets thrown off, but you’re just going to have that flow. I love that point. So you mentioned, you know, this is something that we can do in infancy. How early are we talking here in your perspective?

 

00;05;00;16 – 00;05;21;11

Jessica Irwin

Yeah. So of course in the newborn stage your day is not going to look as structured as, let’s say a two year old’s day. Right. Obviously. And that’s normal. But I do believe that there are things you can do from day one of your baby’s life to kind of like set the stage for moving towards the direction of having a routine.

 

00;05;21;11 – 00;05;53;13

Jessica Irwin

And the biggest thing is setting their circadian rhythm, which is their ability to know the difference between day and night, and to have their body be cycled in that 24 hour clock. Because when your baby is inside of you in the room, they’re in 24 hour darkness. And circadian rhythms are really triggered by light exposure. So my biggest tech, literally day one, is that you can expose your baby to morning sunlight, whether that’s be stepping outside on your in your backyard or just standing by a window and then keeping it really dark at nighttime.

 

00;05;53;18 – 00;06;04;28

Jessica Irwin

And yes, your baby will be up eating during the night. But the point is, is just using that tiny little tip. And that really does set up the beginning stages for like daytime and daytime and nighttime is nighttime.

 

00;06;05;01 – 00;06;24;06

Dr. Mona

When people hear routine, I think they think it’s going to be so rigid, but it’s just going to naturally evolve. And yes, the circadian rhythm is such an important thing. And part of that is like a bathtime routine. I love that time routine because again, it’s something that’s so important when they’re older kids, too. And who doesn’t love a nice warm bath before they go to bed?

 

00;06;24;06 – 00;06;42;24

Dr. Mona

I mean, it just it’s so relaxing. But these are all things that can be implemented early on. So what would you say are like your go to important routines? If you could say like, these are the ones I really want my families to do on a, you know, whether it’s in infancy or toddler years, what are your favorite ones that you like to talk about?

 

00;06;42;26 – 00;07;08;21

Jessica Irwin

Yeah, so I have coined what I call my Rooter day routine non-negotiables. And so those are the five areas of the day that I encourage parents to create mini routines around. And so what happens is if you do this, you will kind of naturally fall into a more general routine and general flow for the whole day. So the five ones that I like to teach about are sleep routines.

 

00;07;08;21 – 00;07;29;11

Jessica Irwin

So that would be bedtime routine. And then if your child still naps a naptime routine, I kind of want those together and then meal times. And so having a routine around not only what time of day or serving your child food when they start to eat, but what actually that looks like. So like a little mini routine before, during and after and then outdoor time routines and playtime routines.

 

00;07;29;14 – 00;07;49;14

Jessica Irwin

When I say those, I don’t mean like fancy activities set ups. If you do follow me on Instagram, you know I am very much not an activity mom. But just having those times kind of fit in throughout the day. So those four things, if you have routines around sleep times, eating times, and then outdoor time and playtime, those seem so basic, right?

 

00;07;49;14 – 00;07;57;07

Jessica Irwin

But like, that’s really what makes up your child and your baby’s day. And I believe that that can really be like a strong foundation for the whole day.

 

00;07;57;09 – 00;08;20;24

Dr. Mona

I love that, and what you’re saying is part of our daily life. Right. And again, this is supposed to be adding ease to your life, right? Of course you’re going to sleep. You’re going to eat. That’s part of our life and the outdoor time. So I would love to take one of those non-negotiables and maybe give an example of how you can implement that in the early stages, like maybe an infancy newborn, and then also how you would implement in toddler whichever of the five that you like.

 

00;08;20;27 – 00;08;38;11

Jessica Irwin

Yeah. Okay. So bedtime in the very, very early stages, bedtime itself is typically a little bit later. If we’re talking to simply about the time on the clock, it typically is a little bit later in the night. So between like, you know, 8 to 9 or even 10 or 11 p.m.. And in terms of a bedtime routine, it’s super, super simple.

 

00;08;38;11 – 00;08;55;28

Jessica Irwin

In the early days, you don’t have to do anything fancy. So a really simple bedtime routine would literally be like maybe a wipe down if you’re babies, you know, a little bit dirty, but which they won’t be because they’re a newborn. And then change their diaper PJs and swaddle them, feed them, and then they go to sleep.

 

00;08;55;29 – 00;09;18;15

Jessica Irwin

That’s it. As your baby gets a little bit older, what happens is in terms of sleep, sleep and the sleep schedules, sleep needs, it changes a bit. And as your baby gets closer to, let’s say, 4 or 5 months, six months, bedtime will shift a little bit earlier into the night. So it should be around 7:08 p.m., and the bedtime routine may include a few more steps.

 

00;09;18;15 – 00;09;36;12

Jessica Irwin

So this is when I do encourage or to be a little bit more of structure into that bedtime routine, because it cues your baby to expect sleep to come next, and that’s one of the great benefits of it. So that may include at this age, if they’re eating that, it may include baths because they’ll get really messy. So be bath.

 

00;09;36;12 – 00;09;56;20

Jessica Irwin

Then the same simple steps like change their diaper. Maybe you’re doing a massage with lotion, I love that. Then maybe, you know, PJs asleep sack I should have said bottle should have come first or bottle or breastfeed. That should actually have come first. Because at this age, we’d like to do something more like a song and a cuddle, before we lay them down for sleep.

 

00;09;56;20 – 00;10;09;18

Jessica Irwin

So you can see it again. The order and the steps can look different from family to family. It’s really about what works for your family and then having some sort of consistency around that from day to day.

 

00;10;09;21 – 00;10;32;25

Dr. Mona

And in the toddler years, you know, I agree, but it’s the consistency that children will get with the repetition, which I think that, you know, I really hope parents realize when they listen to this is that that routine offers repetition, and repetition is consistency, and that’s what makes them actually make changes in a, you know, if they’re regressing in a routine or something like routine helps everything.

 

00;10;32;25 – 00;10;34;25

Dr. Mona

Like I can’t no, no.

 

00;10;34;27 – 00;10;39;26

Jessica Irwin

Yeah, totally. And you’re so right. The toddler years. It’s so normal to have a little bit of what I.

 

00;10;39;26 – 00;10;41;11

Dr. Mona

Call yes pushback.

 

00;10;41;11 – 00;11;08;19

Jessica Irwin

Right. Like, yes, their personality, they’re allowed to not want to do something that’s, yes, normal. But yes, the routine of having a consistent routine really helps because if they’re asking for something or they want to change something, you can kind of blame the routine instead of having to give them some sort of roundabout answer as to why you can’t or can’t do something that’s really perfect in the toddler years.

 

00;11;08;21 – 00;11;30;01

Dr. Mona

And that’s your follow up. Just a small dose of the real, relatable and eye opening conversations we love to have here. If you smiled, nodded, or had an moment, go ahead and download, follow and share this episode with a friend. Let’s grow this village together for more everyday parenting wins and real talk. Hang out with us on Instagram at the PedsDocTalk podcast.

 

00;11;30;08 – 00;11;45;20

Dr. Mona

Want more? Dive into the full episode and more at PedsDocTalk.com. Because parenting is better with support. And remember, consistency is key. Humor is medicine and follow ups are everything. I’m Doctor Mona. See you next time for your next dose.