In honor of NICU awareness month, I share the stories of two moms who had premature babies in the Neonatal Intensive Care Unit. If you missed it, check out episode 87 to hear stories from two other moms who had term babies in the NICU.

On this episode, we discuss:

• Things NICU moms may be unprepared for
• How the medical community can better support NICU parents
• What others may not realize about having a NICU experience or being a NICU mom
• How to advocate for yourself and your baby

00;00;08;29 – 00;00;28;00

Dr. Mona

Welcome to this episode. September is NICU Awareness Month in the United States, and in honor of this, I wanted to welcome mothers who have had children in the NICU. You are listening to an episode where I’m talking to mothers who have had pre-term babies, and then if you make sure you listen to the other episode with term babies who have been in the NICU.

 

00;00;28;03 – 00;00;43;19

Dr. Mona

This is part of the Mothers Message series on this podcast, where moms can come on and share their experiences, which can hopefully help other families and also spread awareness on what they went through. So I’m welcoming Laura Freeland. Thank you so much for joining me today.

 

00;00;43;21 – 00;00;45;26

Laura Freeland

Thank you so much for having me.

 

00;00;45;29 – 00;01;01;02

Dr. Mona

So, you know, like I said, I wanted to do the series, which is the mothers message series, to kind of have mothers on to talk about their experiences, because I feel like sometimes other mothers may be going through the same thing, and they just want to hear it from someone else. It may not be the exact same story.

 

00;01;01;05 – 00;01;15;19

Dr. Mona

But also just to kind of spread awareness about things that maybe people don’t realize from the things that we go through as moms if they haven’t gone through the same experience. So I really want to thank you for being here, and I know this is going to be really helpful for so many people who are listening.

 

00;01;15;22 – 00;01;17;27

Laura Freeland

Absolutely. Thank you again.

 

00;01;17;29 – 00;01;23;04

Dr. Mona

So tell me a little bit about yourself and just a little bit about your story and your, you know, your children’s story.

 

00;01;23;07 – 00;01;56;02

Laura Freeland

Absolutely. So I am an ex marketer and copywriter. I had big plans and for going back to work after the twins were born. When I saw pregnant with them and had no idea what was coming. But. And I’m now a stay at home mom and I was still an aspiring writer. So my twins are Vivian and Margot. They are mono di twin, meaning they shared a placenta, but they had different sex and they were born to me as a part, which is going to be their fun fact for life.

 

00;01;56;05 – 00;02;03;00

Laura Freeland

At 22 weeks, five days gestation and 23 weeks gestation, respectively. Maybe a baby.

 

00;02;03;03 – 00;02;09;11

Dr. Mona

Was there anything in your pregnancy that kind of was showing you that they may be pre-term, or was it sort of a surprise?

 

00;02;09;13 – 00;02;33;28

Laura Freeland

It was a huge surprise. My pregnancy was a normal, healthy pregnancy. I was sick, but that is no indicator that your kids are going to come prematurely. The twins were growing at the same rate, which that was the biggest concern because they shared a placenta. And at my 2010, everything was normal. My doctor was super happy with everything, and it was a huge surprise when I went into labor.

 

00;02;34;02 – 00;02;50;13

Laura Freeland

I actually didn’t even believe I was in labor. I was like, this can’t be happening. This is practice. And I if I’m being very transparent, I probably went to the hospital much later than I should of because I thought, it’s too early. There’s no way that this is labor.

 

00;02;50;16 – 00;03;12;16

Dr. Mona

And so this is obviously a surprise kind of going into the Niki. Right. Because you obviously went into preterm labor. Unexpected. So what are some things that you just weren’t prepared for for being a Niki parent? I mean, there are some situations where some parents are expecting a Niki stay. Maybe there was something diagnosed in ultrasound when they were pregnant, but obviously this was a surprise for you.

 

00;03;12;16 – 00;03;19;02

Dr. Mona

So what weren’t you prepared for? I mean, I’m sure it’s loads of things. With this whole experience.

 

00;03;19;05 – 00;03;37;27

Laura Freeland

When we were admitted to the Niki, you and I first wanted to see my kid. Somebody. Another mom met me at the handwashing sink, and she said, I saw your babies come in. And she was another micro preemie mom. I think it’s really it’s going to be a roller coaster. But I just wanted to tell you I am here for you.

 

00;03;37;29 – 00;04;05;23

Laura Freeland

And she is super kind, but it’s going to be a roller coaster thing. Even if somebody tells you the first time that you step into the queue. Especially for kids that are born extremely premature. That is something you just nobody can prepare you for the emotional roller coaster. But basically every other week wondering if your child will live or die and the outcome of this surgery or that surgery.

 

00;04;05;26 – 00;04;32;11

Laura Freeland

And then one of the biggest things that I think is universal, probably for any parent, is the isolation of being an acute parent. People who have experienced it just don’t know, and they can’t possibly know. And that, combined with the fact that everything changes when everything changes. I think doubly so for at least for me, did because I was due for my first babies.

 

00;04;32;13 – 00;05;01;28

Laura Freeland

So not only did I go to the McHugh, but I also became a mom all at the same time. And it’s so much change and you’re processing this. Or maybe you’re not. I feel that I wasn’t necessarily processing it until much later, but all the while, your kids are the focus of all of this, and your very important emotional needs are secondary to the clinical status of your kids, no matter how much you try to prioritize them.

 

00;05;02;01 – 00;05;11;12

Laura Freeland

And I think I was it prepared for what it would be like to reenter the world after seven months in the new year.

 

00;05;11;14 – 00;05;16;14

Dr. Mona

Seven months and seven months for both the kids? Or was one discharged before the other one?

 

00;05;16;17 – 00;05;21;09

Laura Freeland

But so my baby and Vivian was discharged three months before her sister.

 

00;05;21;12 – 00;05;26;01

Dr. Mona

Okay. Wow. Seven months. And, I mean, that’s a huge roller coaster.

 

00;05;26;01 – 00;05;27;03

Laura Freeland

Wow.

 

00;05;27;05 – 00;05;43;17

Dr. Mona

Oh, and you’re right. I mean, you don’t really realize. And you said it perfectly that you’re putting the clinical needs of your child over kind of what you’re processing and what you’re going through. What was your biggest, like, support system while you were in there, or did you have one or did you feel like going back you could have had a better support system?

 

00;05;43;22 – 00;06;03;07

Laura Freeland

So I think that’s a very interesting question, because my parents are incredible, and they have been with us through every step of the journey, and they were in the ICU with us literally every day. Vivian was a national birth and Margo was a C-section, and it was just a really bad recovery. And so I couldn’t always make it to the Nic.

 

00;06;03;07 – 00;06;29;17

Laura Freeland

You. Yeah, for around in the morning. But my dad was always at the nick for rounds just to make sure that he heard firsthand what was happening. And it didn’t happen, you know, at 3:00 in the afternoon. I had a phone call. So my parents were super supportive. But the twins were born in December of 2019. And the nic, you shut down all visitation except for parents in March of 2020 to Covid.

 

00;06;29;19 – 00;06;59;15

Laura Freeland

And so overnight, I lost my physically present support system. And I would say that was probably one of the most tragic things that happened while we were in the nation. I really I couldn’t cope for a couple of weeks after my parents couldn’t be physically present because it was like there was nobody there to hold me up. Even though they were always there to listen, it’s very different.

 

00;06;59;15 – 00;07;20;22

Laura Freeland

At least it was for me to have somebody physically present with me. Because sometimes when there’s that much happening, when there’s damage, overwhelm and that much to grieve and to be afraid of. It’s nice to just have somebody hold you off. Yeah, I didn’t have that for the last several months. We were in the nick. You.

 

00;07;20;24 – 00;07;39;13

Dr. Mona

Oh, Matt Ryan was in the NICU in December of 2019 also. And the pandemic hit in March. And I talked to my husband. I’m like, imagine, like you’re saying like, imagine having gone through this. If it was a time of Covid, because already in the NICU, there’s a lot of restrictions on, you know, when you visit and your washing and all the contact precautions that have to happen for safety purposes.

 

00;07;39;13 – 00;07;55;09

Dr. Mona

And I remember being so frustrated as a physician with all of the precautions. And, you know, it was flu season at that point. So I was like, you know, they already had those precautions. And I was like, you know, I had to wear a mask because it was flu season and they hadn’t changed any requirements. And then I was like the washing.

 

00;07;55;09 – 00;08;12;09

Dr. Mona

And I was like, of course I’m doing all this for my baby. But it’s like it really was very stressful. You’re trying to just make it to rounds, like you said. That was hard. I mean that I think people don’t realize a lot like you’re going through your own recovery. I mean, you had a C-section and a vaginal delivery, I mean, two.

 

00;08;12;12 – 00;08;27;16

Dr. Mona

And then you also have to make it two rounds and be present, and you’re physically also recovering. I mean, it is really hard to balance that, at a time when you are, you know, trying to celebrate having a baby and you’re worried about their well-being. And, you know, what is the next few months going to look like?

 

00;08;27;16 – 00;08;29;11

Dr. Mona

It’s a really hard time.

 

00;08;29;13 – 00;08;54;26

Laura Freeland

Yeah. I mean, it’s interesting that you use the word celebrate because for a long time it was not something I could do. Yeah. And even the people saying congratulations but felt so strange, like, what are you saying to me? Do you understand what’s happening here? But yeah, it’s it’s all very, Oh. I mean, I guess overwhelming is probably the best way to put it.

 

00;08;54;26 – 00;09;08;28

Laura Freeland

And I didn’t realize just how overwhelming it was until I was able to step away from it and settle into something resembling a normal life. And then it was just like, oh, what just happened? Yeah.

 

00;09;09;00 – 00;09;20;18

Dr. Mona

Oh. I mean, when you finally got the idea that they were going to go home, like, how did you feel like were you excited? Were you a little nervous because you spent like seven months, you said, in the NICU, like, how are your feelings when it was time to go home?

 

00;09;20;20 – 00;09;44;13

Laura Freeland

So one of the things I didn’t realize I hadn’t done that to protect myself emotionally while you’re in the queue is. I never let myself think about that. I’m going home. Like I pictured it. I never thought about it. I never asked when do you think they can go home. Because I very much had it in my head that there is a huge possibility that they might never come home.

 

00;09;44;13 – 00;10;11;23

Laura Freeland

Right. Yeah, I guess I knew, but I, I think I blocked out the possibility. I just didn’t want to get excited. But one of the doctors said, I think maybe on a Friday or Saturday, oh, everything looks great. If she gained weight tomorrow, we can discharge her on Tuesday. And I just burst into tears like hysterical tears. Yeah, that surprised me because of what I said.

 

00;10;11;26 – 00;10;55;10

Laura Freeland

I had never even thought of the possibility that I would get to see my daughter home, and she was so taken aback. She was like, oh, notice how she’ll be discharged? So it’s kind of comical in retrospect, but in the moment, it was this huge, cathartic moment where I felt a relief like I had never felt before. And then with Margot, maybe it was a little bit different because she came home a little more medically complicated, with a g-tube and continuous feeds, and so there was a lot leading up to bringing her home to prepare.

 

00;10;55;13 – 00;11;12;25

Laura Freeland

But I did have this moment when they said, okay, everything’s ready. Where I was like, okay, let’s go. And my husband was like, well, I want to take a picture here, and I want to think I was like, no, you go like before. So is there much to get out of here?

 

00;11;12;27 – 00;11;26;10

Dr. Mona

Oh yeah. Like, you know, the whole picture thing. I mean, I remember being so, you know, people take pictures when they’re babies born. I mean, the pictures that we took were so different than what I would expect. I think it’s a lot of us just expectation change, right? Like, you have a vision maybe, you know, for you like going to term.

 

00;11;26;10 – 00;11;42;25

Dr. Mona

And for me it’s like, hey, you’re going to have a healthy baby and they’re going to go home and they’re not going to be on to like all this stuff in ICU. And then you literally are just like, what it’s like. I describe, it is almost as if I was up above my body looking down sometimes, like I almost feel like I was actually there many times.

 

00;11;42;25 – 00;11;58;07

Dr. Mona

Like I felt like it was surreal. Like, is this really happening? Was something that went through my head so many times. Like, I literally look back at pictures and I’m like, did that happen? Like, obviously it did. But like it’s almost like a protective thing. I think your mind goes through in that, like there’s a lot of anxiety, there’s a lot of worry.

 

00;11;58;07 – 00;12;21;02

Dr. Mona

There’s just a lot of like, what if like you said, like what’s what is going on right now, you know, and healing yourself too physically and emotionally. Oh, it is it is a wild ride where there’s some things that were told to you from loved ones, or maybe even the hospital that was helpful or wasn’t helpful. You know, a lot of times when you’re grieving, I mean, I’m gonna use that word because sometimes it’s, you know, when you have a child in the NICU, it is a form of grieving, right?

 

00;12;21;02 – 00;12;29;02

Dr. Mona

Because you maybe grieve the delivery. You thought you had a healthy baby. Were there things that were helpful or weren’t helpful in terms of what was told to you?

 

00;12;29;05 – 00;12;53;08

Laura Freeland

So for sure, there are so many unhelpful things. And I think part of that is because you’re in such a fragile emotional state and you’re trying to be strong, that when anybody says something that is even remotely inappropriate and you have no capacity for grace, or at least yeah, yeah, I’m just being myself. I did it. And so it was like everything people said was so annoying.

 

00;12;53;10 – 00;13;19;10

Laura Freeland

Like I said, congratulations. That was very annoying to me. And you clearly have no idea what’s happening here. Yeah. One thing that was super triggering for me is I can’t wait to hold her, or I can’t wait to hold them because I didn’t get to hold them until they were 43 and like, 62 days old. Like, I can’t touch them basically other than one finger until they were months old.

 

00;13;19;10 – 00;13;43;23

Laura Freeland

And so anytime somebody told me they couldn’t wait to hold them, I was so angry. And then of course, it’s all going to be okay. It’s like the ultimate. Yeah. Like you don’t know that. So those things were very unhelpful. I think the most helpful things, most of the most helpful things that were said to me were said to me by our media team.

 

00;13;43;26 – 00;14;17;04

Laura Freeland

And sometimes it was just a doctor who didn’t say anything when things were so bad that he couldn’t say anything helpful, and he would just, like, put a hand on my shoulder, or when things were not going the way we wanted them to go. But the doctors knew that it would be okay. I remember very vividly one of our neonatologist telling me, we are going to get her home, and doctors don’t promise a lot in that very critical state of the girls room for so long.

 

00;14;17;07 – 00;14;34;21

Laura Freeland

And so it was so powerful. And this was given this is very far along in our journey that she said that it wasn’t like a day for when they found three, or she said it when we were pretty close to going home, we just had a setback. So that was just so helpful to hear somebody who knew what they were talking about speak with authority.

 

00;14;34;25 – 00;15;03;15

Laura Freeland

And then one of actually, two of my favorite things that people said to me were one that would make you as a place of hope. A friend of mine, about that in a note when we are first setting it, and it was something that I clung to a lot, and too, that babies are so resilient and I had seen this as a nurse speaking to me, and I had seen impossible things happen over and over and over again.

 

00;15;03;18 – 00;15;09;28

Laura Freeland

So I think the things that were very helpful were people reminding me to hold on to hope.

 

00;15;10;01 – 00;15;31;18

Dr. Mona

I love and exactly that, that resilient. And it’s so interesting because I think before I had this experience, I probably said the same things that I don’t want to be told now. Like after you go through this experience, like I think I had some of that toxic positivity language before I went through what I did. And then after going through it, I was like, I can understand now why that can be hurtful or not the right timing.

 

00;15;31;20 – 00;15;55;00

Dr. Mona

And you speak about, the things that just trigger you, right? And this is not stuff that I think people realize that you were saying, like, but congratulations. And, like, for me, when Ryan was in the NICU and people wanted to FaceTime and they had children, healthy children that were outside of the hospital, and they wanted the children to see Ryan, I lost my my shit because I was like, I don’t want to see your healthy child right now.

 

00;15;55;05 – 00;16;10;03

Dr. Mona

Like it was this. It was this weird thing that I’m not that person, right? That’s not who I am now. Like, I’m not that person. But when you’re grieving, I literally was like, I don’t want to see that child because I had a healthy pregnancy, and now I don’t even know if my child’s going to walk again, like, I don’t know.

 

00;16;10;03 – 00;16;30;20

Dr. Mona

So I don’t want to talk to a kid. Like, it was so interesting because, like, that’s not who I am, right? But it’s literally who I needed to be at that moment because it was a very hard time. And it’s like you just get triggered and it’s like it’s really important to respect and maybe ask like, I don’t know if this helped you, but what really helped me is a group of my girlfriends I like texted them and they were like, what would be helpful to you right now?

 

00;16;30;20 – 00;16;48;24

Dr. Mona

And I said, this is so nice because they would send me pictures. They all have toddler age kids. And I was like, if you can just not send me pictures of your kids for like a couple weeks, it would mean so much. And it was because I was so upset. And of course I love children, but when you’re going through something and they stopped, you know, they said, okay, when you’re ready, let us know.

 

00;16;48;24 – 00;17;03;21

Dr. Mona

And so in that group chat when I said I was ready, that’s when the pictures came back. You know, because I just wasn’t I wasn’t ready, like I wasn’t ready to take that. And it’s not anyone’s fault. And no one’s intention is ever to be hurtful. But it’s like you need to kind of ask the person and say, how can I support you?

 

00;17;03;21 – 00;17;17;26

Dr. Mona

Like, what do you need from me? Like, you know, what can I do? Not like, hey, maybe I’ll do this. And because everyone grieves differently and everyone may want something different, like I communicate differently than you, Laura, you know, so it’s really important to kind of maybe ask. I don’t know if that was helpful to you or if that happened to you.

 

00;17;17;29 – 00;17;44;07

Laura Freeland

So for me, I think it was so, so traumatic and so overwhelming and there was so much happening that I don’t even know that I could have told people what I needed for a long time. There did come a point, where I did hear like, oh, I know exactly what I need. And I will say that people were there and wanting.

 

00;17;44;09 – 00;17;44;26

Dr. Mona

To say.

 

00;17;44;26 – 00;18;11;11

Laura Freeland

Things and do things and give things at the beginning. But when you’re in the Nikki for seven months, people forget about you. And I would say, going back to the question of what helpful, don’t forget about people because they’re, quote unquote problem has become their norm, because that doesn’t mean that they’re not hurting and that it’s not hard just because it’s been their life for the better part of a year.

 

00;18;11;14 – 00;18;15;11

Dr. Mona

And as such, it yeah, such a good point. And you’re right. And then that feels even more isolating.

 

00;18;15;19 – 00;18;30;14

Laura Freeland

Yeah for sure. And then the other piece, one of the things that I learned along the way that now I always remind people that if you don’t know what to say, it’s okay, not same thing. But there are lots of things that you can do that are always helpful. It’s always helpful to send an Uber each gift card.

 

00;18;30;18 – 00;18;50;16

Laura Freeland

It’s always helpful to send a gift card to a cleaning service for somebody’s house. It’s always helpful to do laundry or to send a gift card for somebody to take out your laundry. Like those things are always helpful no matter what the circumstances are, and you don’t have to worry about, am I saying the right thing?

 

00;18;50;19 – 00;19;14;19

Dr. Mona

I love talking to you about this because already you’ve kind of brought up so many good suggestions for people going through. What would you say? I know we’ve talked about a few things, but what would you say? People just don’t realize about the experience or being a new mom and even just kind of, you know, I know you said one of your daughters had, you know, the g-tube and things after, like, what do you think people just don’t realize or maybe you would want to share with people that may not be going through this experience and.

 

00;19;14;21 – 00;19;45;16

Laura Freeland

Just state has been like you is over. Doesn’t mean the I’m going to call it a battle, doesn’t mean the battle is over, and doesn’t mean that things are normal. I mean, my daughters are very credible. I mean, they defied every statistical odd. They’re just like walking and talking and beating themselves and huge personalities. And so they look normal to everybody.

 

00;19;45;16 – 00;20;24;05

Laura Freeland

And but we can’t go gallivanting around the world. They have no immune system and underdeveloped lungs. And I think the severity of the situation is very hard for people to understand for a couple of reasons. Right. I didn’t go into great detail when I explained their clinical status to my friends and to my family or my extended family, because, it’s complicated and I know that, you know, nobody asked me to go into great detail about their clinical status, and nobody really ever understood how severe it is.

 

00;20;24;07 – 00;20;51;23

Laura Freeland

You know, it’s one thing to say, you know, they almost died or we don’t know if they’re going to live, but the complexities of that really, communicated or have different implications for when you leave the you. And so my kids look normal and they act normal and they’re beautiful and I post pictures of them on Instagram, but you can’t come over and touch them, you know, and I mean, that’s still like a hard thing for a lot of people to understand why they’re almost two.

 

00;20;51;29 – 00;21;07;26

Laura Freeland

And we are still in hiding because RSV and the second surge of the flu and, Covid and all that, right. It’s hard for people to get, especially with so much fatigue.

 

00;21;07;28 – 00;21;27;12

Dr. Mona

Yeah. Your point is valid that it just never ends. And also, do you feel in terms of just kind of the experience that you went through, do you feel like you’ve kind of accepted? Is there still any grieving that you have? I mean, any of that emotional stuff that went into being a Nikki mom when you were in the Nick youth, does that still carry with you and how you parent and all the things that you do?

 

00;21;27;12 – 00;21;33;10

Dr. Mona

I mean, it sounds like it would, but I think people forget that that still exists even like you said, once the nick you time is done.

 

00;21;33;12 – 00;21;58;12

Laura Freeland

Yeah. So I went to therapy before the girls were even out of the nick. You know, I was like, this is going to be. Yeah, a thing for a long time. So let me start talking to somebody now. And so I’ve gone through many different seasons over the course of the last 20 months, including. And I went through a phase where I was scared to cross the street with them in a stroller because I thought, oh my gosh, we made it this far, and they’re going to get killed by some idiot with this phone in traffic, right?

 

00;21;58;15 – 00;22;27;13

Laura Freeland

That’s why I went through that. I didn’t bridge a lot of things. I don’t think it I there is that much lingering. But I certainly have moments, especially when I feel like I’m not being understood by people in my life who maybe want to see the babies or are inviting me to go out, where I grieve like what normal motherhood would have been like, or when I have to take my one and a half year old to go get bloodwork.

 

00;22;27;14 – 00;22;47;07

Laura Freeland

That was a recent thing where I really grieved what other would have looked like, because a parent with a healthy, full term kid would never have to see their one and a half year old to get six miles of blood drawn and hold her down during that. Anything medical has lingering effects. I I’m trying to hold them down.

 

00;22;47;12 – 00;23;20;29

Laura Freeland

Yeah, I really feel like, man, this just sucks and it’s not fair. Yeah, the other really, really candid about how I feel about it. It’s not a mature way to feel about it, for sure, but it’s when I just get jealous of people who have full term, healthy kids with normal toddlerhood. And I sometimes can in my head get a little bit catty about it, but I have grace as myself, like I that it’s normal that I feel that way.

 

00;23;21;05 – 00;23;41;01

Dr. Mona

Oh, absolutely. And I think that you’re talking about things that are normal, like, yes, 20 months down the line, but also even in that experience, I mean, absolutely. I mean, we talked about this already. Like the anger doesn’t mean that we’re not grateful for people having their joys. Right? It’s just that for us, I mean, going through something and having an experience that we go through, giving yourself grace and understanding that this is a feeling I’m having.

 

00;23;41;01 – 00;23;52;20

Dr. Mona

It’s okay to have these feelings and I’m working through the feelings, right? Like, exactly like it’s it’s totally okay. And I think we need to recognize that as normal. And accept that for sure. I love I love that you you said that, you know, it’s not petty.

 

00;23;52;20 – 00;24;14;24

Laura Freeland

I find the anger is a byproduct of like, having to be strong. I have to be strong for my kids, right? Yeah. Like she’s getting her blood redrawn or she’s getting her eyes, and I have to be strong for her. And so instead of having a meltdown and crying like I want to do, it comes out as just being angry at people who don’t get it.

 

00;24;14;26 – 00;24;35;22

Dr. Mona

Yeah, it’s like a coping. Sure. I guess my last question would be, you know, I know they were in the Nikki for so long. Did you experience any difficulty in bonding with them, like after they came out? Like, was that something that just was easy to feel bonded? You know, because I had difficulty bonding, and a lot of it was my fear of something happening to Ryan.

 

00;24;35;25 – 00;24;52;21

Dr. Mona

I was I don’t think people get this, but I was afraid to get so close. Meaning emotionally. That I had delayed bonding with him. Where even when we were at home, I loved him, but I almost described it. I loved him like a patient. I didn’t love him like my child. You know? I love my patients.

 

00;24;52;21 – 00;25;01;11

Dr. Mona

But I almost felt, again, like that out-of-body experience. And I was terrified of something happening to him that I was afraid to get close. Did you experience that at all?

 

00;25;01;14 – 00;25;28;25

Laura Freeland

Yeah, actually, I was even discharged from the hospital. I remember everybody in my family remembers because they were all in the room. And I said something to the effect of, I don’t want to love them because why I say it because what if they die? Yeah. And I didn’t actually. So for the first months they were. And then they knew I would go for maybe 30 minutes a day.

 

00;25;28;27 – 00;25;52;09

Laura Freeland

But there was a point. And for that reason exactly right. I would go for 30 minutes a day because I did not want to get attached to them. But there was a point where Vivian got very sick. She had Aspergillus, which is a. Fungal infection. And she was septic and they were cleaning her wounds out from the Aspergillus.

 

00;25;52;09 – 00;26;15;07

Laura Freeland

They had to breathe them. And I thought if my kid has to suffer through that, I just need to be here and suffer through it with her, for better or worse. And there was just like this entire shift. But it wasn’t a deep emotional bonding. It was like, this is my duty. Like, I brought this kid into the world and I’m going to stick with her.

 

00;26;15;07 – 00;26;22;21

Laura Freeland

Whatever happened. And as a byproduct of that, I started to bond with that.

 

00;26;22;23 – 00;26;38;15

Dr. Mona

Oh, this is so great. I’m just so happy that we were, you know, able to share this experience. And, I’m just so happy that things are I’m going to use the word better. I know it’s, you know, obviously it’s been a crazy journey. So I know that better word is can be a little loosely, you know, loosely used.

 

00;26;38;21 – 00;26;46;11

Dr. Mona

But what would be your final message for everyone listening? You know, either whether they’ve gone through the experience of being in if you parent or not, what would be your final message?

 

00;26;46;13 – 00;26;49;26

Laura Freeland

Hope is crucial.

 

00;26;49;29 – 00;26;50;09

Dr. Mona

Right?

 

00;26;50;09 – 00;27;12;05

Laura Freeland

So if you are the new parent, you have to learn how to hold your sadness and your grief and your desperation and all the big, hard feelings of the issue at the same time that you hold on to help and you love somebody whose baby is in the nick, you find words of hope. And that’s different than words of encouragement.

 

00;27;12;05 – 00;27;24;08

Laura Freeland

It’s different than like, stage positivity. Yeah. The nurse who said, I seen impossible things happen to hold on, to hope.

 

00;27;24;10 – 00;27;45;26

Dr. Mona

Oh, and I appreciate that so much because I couldn’t agree more that hope. Sometimes it seems like it’s hard to obtain and that you can’t find it, but it really is what gets you through. And you kind of said it perfectly. Like as a pediatrician, like I see so many Nikki babies that I’m talking like ultra preemie, you know, like you say like 23, 24 weeks that have great outcomes that defy the statistics.

 

00;27;45;28 – 00;28;00;22

Dr. Mona

So many times I see this. That’s why I love talking about and talking with Nikki parents in that I understand at some point it really comes down to that hope that, hey, all we can do is do what we can to engage with our baby, but also rely on the hope that it’s going to be what’s meant to happen.

 

00;28;00;22 – 00;28;12;24

Dr. Mona

And it’s so hard to do that. But I love that uplifting message. I just can’t thank you enough for joining me today. It was such a pleasure hearing your perspective, obviously talking about your story. And I know it’s going to help so many people listening.

 

00;28;12;26 – 00;28;16;25

Laura Freeland

Thank you so much for having me as seriously such a pleasure.

 

00;28;16;27 – 00;28;42;06

Dr. Mona

This episode is brought to you by the New Moms Survival Guide, an online digital course and community created by me, Doctor Mona Amin. Using my experience as a board certified pediatrician and mom, I created this course to guide you through your first year of motherhood from the foundations of parenting, newborn feeding, sleep in the first year, introduction of solids, and understanding child behavior and development.

 

00;28;42;13 – 00;28;58;17

Dr. Mona

I will be your guide and support you throughout this incredible journey. Make sure to visit Pedes Doc talk.com and be one of the first to get your hands on this incredible resource created to support and empower you as you embark on the joyous path of parenthood.

 

00;28;58;20 – 00;29;05;25

Dr. Mona

Now, I welcome Maria, who is a mother of twins who are in the ICU. So thank you so much for joining me today, Maria.

 

00;29;05;28 – 00;29;08;14

Laura Freeland

You’re welcome. I’m happy to to talk with you.

 

00;29;08;17 – 00;29;13;08

Dr. Mona

So tell me a little bit more about yourself and a little bit about your story with your children.

 

00;29;13;11 – 00;29;39;12

Laura Freeland

Okay. So we like you said we have twins, which was a surprise. We got married and about six weeks later found out that we were pregnant, which was not the plan right away, but it was very, very exciting. And so when we went for our first ultrasound, they were like joking about I wonder, we’ll find out how many babies there are.

 

00;29;39;15 – 00;30;01;12

Laura Freeland

And we’re like, oh, that’s hilarious. There’s only one. And then as soon as they did the ultrasound, the doctor goes, yeah, looks like there’s two. And it was like, oh my gosh, what are you talking about? There’s so yeah, there’s two heartbeats. And so sure enough, there were two babies. And so nobody in our family has twins until now.

 

00;30;01;15 – 00;30;22;27

Laura Freeland

And so my pregnancy was super normal. I mean, I had no issues at all. My doctor thought I would probably go full term, and I was a teacher at the time, and I fully anticipated going back for a month before the kids were born. I was like, no, I’m not packing my room because I’m going to be back and how could I get back?

 

00;30;22;29 – 00;30;47;03

Laura Freeland

And at my 28 week appointment, everything went fine, ultrasound was fine, everything was good. And they’re like, okay, we’ll see you in two weeks or a month or whatever it was. And literally 20 minutes later, my husband and I stopped to get dinner and I was like, we are so not prepared. We’re in a rental house. If you’re going home and we’re not prepared, we don’t have cramps.

 

00;30;47;03 – 00;30;55;28

Laura Freeland

We have nothing like, what are we doing? We’re not ready for these kids, but we have time. And my water broke as soon as we walked into the restaurant because of our super.

 

00;30;56;00 – 00;31;03;07

Dr. Mona

Oh my gosh, did you. You do realize that it was your water breaking or were you like, this can’t be happening. Like, what was your what’s your emotion at that moment?

 

00;31;03;10 – 00;31;24;13

Laura Freeland

I just stood there. I looked at my husband and I said, I think my water broke well. And of course, being a guy, he’s like, are you sure you to just be yourself? Oh no, I’m just that I this is not the same. And so we left and we went home and called the doctor and told them what happened.

 

00;31;24;13 – 00;31;43;22

Laura Freeland

And they’re like, you need to come to the hospital right now. So we did. And so I wasn’t in labor. It was just, I think a leak I had problem. So that premature, ruptured the membrane. So one of my twins had that rupture. So they told me that it’s like you’re out in labor or you’re having very minimal contractions.

 

00;31;43;22 – 00;32;05;02

Laura Freeland

You’re not dilated, like you’re not going to have them today, which was great because we were very scared that that was going to happen. But then they said, but you’re going to be in the hospital till they’re born. Yeah. And we want you to go to 34 weeks if possible. And I had never been hospitalized. I had like severe white coat anxiety.

 

00;32;05;05 – 00;32;24;19

Laura Freeland

And so okay, so I’m going to be in hospital. So we were in the hospital for I think 12 days, 12, 13 days. And the rupture I think had sealed itself. Actually, like they said, if you go a couple more weeks, we can check it. And if it’s fine, you can go home. But then I got a fever one morning.

 

00;32;24;22 – 00;32;46;06

Laura Freeland

Oh, so I had a fever. And even after, you know, some Tylenol or whatever, like it came back and the baby’s heart rates were elevated and my heart rate was elevated. And so they decided that, we needed to get them out one way or the other, just in case there was an infection. And so that’s what we did.

 

00;32;46;08 – 00;32;49;25

Dr. Mona

So how many weeks? How many weeks were they when they, were born then?

 

00;32;49;28 – 00;32;51;25

Laura Freeland

They were 29 and six.

 

00;32;52;00 – 00;33;02;16

Dr. Mona

29 and six. So. Right. The hope was to make it to 34. But because of the infection, I see. So now, of course, this was like a shock then, right, because you had a relatively healthy pregnancy.

 

00;33;02;21 – 00;33;03;08

Laura Freeland

Yeah.

 

00;33;03;10 – 00;33;07;03

Dr. Mona

No sign of the pre prom timing. Obviously. That’s usually what happens with pre prom.

 

00;33;07;05 – 00;33;08;10

Laura Freeland

Yeah yeah.

 

00;33;08;12 – 00;33;20;10

Dr. Mona

Oh my gosh. So tell me like what are I mean now obviously you had babies being born. Did you have Nick you come down to talk to you when all this was happening. Like what was the you know the happenings in the hospital to kind of prepare you if anything.

 

00;33;20;12 – 00;33;37;22

Laura Freeland

Yeah. So once I got into my room, they took us on a tour of the next year. So we got to go to the Nikki, which was on the same floor that I was on. And, you know, met the head nurses and just kind of walked us through like, we know your babies are going to be here at some point.

 

00;33;37;25 – 00;34;02;02

Laura Freeland

And, you know, at this point they’re going to be we just don’t know how long. And so this is where they’ll be and this is what we do. And and then somebody that also like doctors and I think somebody from the ACU that also came to talk to me in my room just to explain to me, you know, the every day is better, you know, and I of course, I got the steroid shots as well, to help with the lung development.

 

00;34;02;10 – 00;34;20;10

Laura Freeland

Yeah. I mean, we had a pretty good, intro to that. And, you know, they reassured me that at this point, you know, the viability is very high. And the longer that they’re in there, the better. So, I know that we were in the best place possible, but healthcare.

 

00;34;20;13 – 00;34;22;20

Dr. Mona

Yeah. Of course. Now, how old are they now?

 

00;34;22;23 – 00;34;27;10

Laura Freeland

They just turned four and, in July. Wow.

 

00;34;27;12 – 00;34;52;27

Dr. Mona

Well, I want to get to how they’re doing later, but my. Yeah, I guess my first question is so obviously now you have two babies in the ICU, 29, weeks plus, what are some things that you just weren’t prepared for? Obviously, you already told me that you weren’t prepared for, like with the cribs and all that stuff at home, but just the experience in the NICU itself, like, what were some things that were shocking to you or some things that you had to really learn fast or took you a long time to learn?

 

00;34;52;29 – 00;35;15;27

Laura Freeland

It was a very just a strange situation. I don’t have any other kids. So like, my kids were born in the O.R., I didn’t have a C-section, but they were born in the O.R. just in case. Right. So there was like, 30 people in the room with us. There’s no two nephew team. So just all the staff. Just not what you would expect or what you’re anticipating for the birth of your kids.

 

00;35;16;04 – 00;35;37;17

Laura Freeland

Yeah. And so that was just for me. That was very shocking. And just not what I was expecting. Not getting to hold them, not getting to, you know, touch them or do anything with them except, you know, look at them. Hey, here’s the baby. What’s her name? She’s breathing. Okay, good. Now she goes down the hall.

 

00;35;37;20 – 00;35;57;00

Laura Freeland

And then I was not able to hold one of them for two days, which I know other people have much longer sometimes, but for me, even the two days was huge. Her umbilical line was was loose. And so until they could get a pick place, we couldn’t hold her in case the umbilical line came out, so we couldn’t hold her.

 

00;35;57;00 – 00;36;25;01

Laura Freeland

And that was really hard. I just I never would have thought I’d have to just look at my baby in an ice lab and not be able to hold her and not be able to get her out. Also, just the amount of work to get these tiny little babies out with all their lines and their, IVs and all their all their cables and all their monitors, you know, it’s like a takes, you know, two people to get them out and tuck them into your shirt.

 

00;36;25;03 – 00;36;47;27

Laura Freeland

And it’s just to see your baby hooked up to all these machines. We were very lucky. Them. Our kids were placed side by side in a bigger room, so we could actually have, two people come with us if we wanted. Oh, no. So we had plenty of space, for the first couple weeks. And then we were in more of a normal nick you kind of situation.

 

00;36;47;27 – 00;37;04;21

Laura Freeland

It’s just very crowded. It’s loud. It’s a busy, busy place. Like, you know, doing pumping and nursing and like, a tiny little chair and with a curtain. It’s. Yeah, it’s not what you expect when you have a baby. So.

 

00;37;04;26 – 00;37;13;27

Dr. Mona

Totally. It’s a medical facility, right? I mean, there’s so many Nick use designs, right? But the one I think you’re talking about is where all the isolates are in a big room. Correct?

 

00;37;13;29 – 00;37;20;02

Laura Freeland

Yeah. And our hospital has, like, 3 or 4 little rooms. They’re all connected. Yes. Yeah.

 

00;37;20;06 – 00;37;35;25

Dr. Mona

And so, so many issues are like that. Some ones have like where they’ll have two babies in like an area or private rooms. It just depends on the ICU. But so many of them have that group setting and it’s just so that the nurse and everyone can kind of be in that same space of a baby. Need something?

 

00;37;36;02 – 00;37;55;26

Dr. Mona

I had, right in the nick, and it was you walk down there and you’re like, again, trying to breastfeed. That curtain gets pulled out. It’s so non intimate. Like you’re you’re literally like it feels very cold. Like, I mean if you felt very like medical if that makes sense. It didn’t feel like anything like that touchy feely like oh I’m in a relaxed seat.

 

00;37;55;26 – 00;38;12;24

Dr. Mona

My body like was super stressed when I was trying to breastfeed because I was I mean, I had a baby in the neck. You. I was stressed, like it was so hard to relax, to just breastfeed. Right. And I was like, yeah. And Ryan was crying. I was like, you know what? Let’s just keep trying. And yeah, but that that breastfeeding experience was totally difficult.

 

00;38;12;24 – 00;38;16;11

Dr. Mona

Were you able to breastfeed or did you do a combo or what was your feeding journey like.

 

00;38;16;14 – 00;38;44;02

Laura Freeland

So obviously they were really way too small to, yes, breastfeed to the breast. Correct? Right. So I think I started pumping immediately in the hospital so that I could, you know, get the, colostrum for them if I would, as much as like brain. So I started pumping immediately and sending it down to the next year. And when I went home, I was pumping around the clock.

 

00;38;44;02 – 00;39;02;11

Laura Freeland

So it was bizarre because here I am. I’m home after four days or three days. Yeah, but you leave with no baby now and you’re not resting because you’re still having to get up because you’re engorged and just you have to pump. And so every day I would have to take, you know, whatever milk. I had to be frozen.

 

00;39;02;13 – 00;39;26;14

Laura Freeland

And they ended up, I think, around 33 or 34 weeks. We were able to put them on the breast. Yeah. And then because I would be in the hospital for like 12 to 14 hours a day, and so I would nurse each of them at least once while I was there. And then they were able to just I had enough milk stored that that’s all they got.

 

00;39;26;16 – 00;39;47;15

Laura Freeland

They were exclusively breastfeeding or drinking milk, I think for like seven months. And, and then I did at some point have to start supplementing with formula just to kind of make it last longer. So they could have it some milk, because eventually it just kind of dried up after about ten months, I think. Yeah.

 

00;39;47;15 – 00;40;06;25

Dr. Mona

But you’re talking about like pumping the pumping reality of not having your baby with you. I mean, already pumping for a lot of moms is very difficult experience. Like some some moms love it. But for many moms, especially in this situation with the NICU, I mean, when you don’t have your baby there, which help stimulate from a physiological perspective, I mean, thinking about breastfeed.

 

00;40;07;03 – 00;40;19;17

Dr. Mona

So how is that experience? I mean, I’m sure you’re four years out. I mean, I get it that your children are not older, so you’re probably like, yeah, it seems like the longer, but can you, like, put yourself back to how that made you feel? Or was it hard initially? Like what was it like?

 

00;40;19;17 – 00;40;40;03

Laura Freeland

Very hard. It’s like isolating, you know, I had to do it all the time and I was at the hospital, I could pump at the bedside, which was great. Or they did have like a pumping room, where pumping moms could go. And so I could eat and pump and, like, have a space to do that, which was a little bit better.

 

00;40;40;03 – 00;41;00;22

Laura Freeland

But then, of course, I felt you’re separate from the kids, like you’re not in there with them. So it just felt very isolating. And it was very much a job. And even once the kids were home, I had to trade out at night because I’m like, I’m still pumping and I have these kids too. But if I don’t pump, I have a problem.

 

00;41;00;24 – 00;41;21;29

Laura Freeland

So yeah, it was really hard. I mean, I luckily was like almost an over a producer, so I didn’t ever have a problem with production, which was good. Yeah. But I did. I felt just like it was a job. It was like, oh yes, a full time job. And when people came over, know who’s going to care if I’m pumping or who’s not going to care?

 

00;41;21;29 – 00;41;29;14

Laura Freeland

And it just and it was ultimately my decision. But at the same time, like you just feel, I don’t know, weird.

 

00;41;29;16 – 00;41;49;00

Dr. Mona

Yeah. No, I know I completely agree with that. I mean that it’s like you said it perfectly. It’s very isolating. You know, Russ already being a mom can be very isolating, like in just in so many different ways, being a new parent can be, you know, postpartum whatever, but just being attached to a machine. Going back to what you saying about like going back to what we were saying about being in the ICU in general.

 

00;41;49;00 – 00;42;07;13

Dr. Mona

Right? It’s very, very medical and a lot of like dinging and wires. And then now you’re literally attached to a wire when your baby is not with you. It’s very isolating. So yeah, I’m so glad you talked about that. I mean, again, I’m I know you’re full four years out, so it’s like it can seem even though it happened like it can seem like it could seem like a distant memory.

 

00;42;07;13 – 00;42;10;28

Dr. Mona

And then I’m bringing it back now with what I’ve by talking about.

 

00;42;11;00 – 00;42;11;14

Laura Freeland

 

00;42;11;14 – 00;42;25;22

Dr. Mona

But no, I totally resonate with that because I felt the same way, being separated from Ryan and having to pump in the, you know, I was in ICU, so I’d have to pump. And I was like, I mean, this is not fun for me. And like, you’d have to take home like a cat or something. Like something that smells like the baby, right?

 

00;42;25;22 – 00;42;27;19

Laura Freeland

Yeah. I said that in the beginning you had.

 

00;42;27;19 – 00;42;34;21

Dr. Mona

That, and I would literally smell it, and I would just stare at the milk like the slow, low amount of milk coming. And I was just like, this.

 

00;42;34;21 – 00;42;36;23

Laura Freeland

Isn’t working for me.

 

00;42;36;29 – 00;42;50;18

Dr. Mona

A lot of it is just trying to, like, learn to let it go. But it was so hard. How was your experience with like the medical team, like communication? With the ICU team and obviously, you know, everything happening with your babies. Was that okay?

 

00;42;50;20 – 00;43;19;21

Laura Freeland

Overall, it was really, really good. The hospital that we were at is also like a teaching hospital. So we would have different residents that would rotate through and we’d have different doctors and just kind of different people all the time. The nursing staff was overall phenomenal, just phenomenal. I remember so many nurses and I remember only one doctor and it was a bad experience.

 

00;43;19;28 – 00;43;45;17

Laura Freeland

I had only one doctor, so, but overall the nurses were fantastic and I’m sure it’s this way at lots of hospitals that nurses can take on primary babies where they’re like always on your baby if possible for their shift. Well, we have four. We had four primaries where with our girls. And so it was great because almost always we had one of them working with both of our kids.

 

00;43;45;17 – 00;44;06;18

Laura Freeland

And so we just got to know them a lot. They had the nurse who actually showed us around the neck, you that admitted my one daughter, O’Malley, and then she was her primary the entire time she was in the hospital for ten weeks. And then she actually and then she was her last primary before she retired. And she helped me put her in the car seat that day.

 

00;44;06;18 – 00;44;34;03

Laura Freeland

She went home. Oh, yeah. Yeah. The nursing staff was just incredible. And the doctor stuff, like I said, I honestly, there were so many residents and their rounds were either early, early in the morning or late at night. And so we didn’t often cross paths with the doctors. So it was like phone calls. And so my only one doctor that I remember was a bad experience.

 

00;44;34;05 – 00;44;45;00

Laura Freeland

Yeah, it was fine. I think it was just a doctor who didn’t really know my child, who didn’t know us and was trying to make some kind of pushy decisions right before she came home. So,

 

00;44;45;03 – 00;45;00;13

Dr. Mona

How was the experience going home? With the girls when they finally were discharged? In terms of, like, how did you feel? Were you excited? Nervous? What was those first few months like? Because, you know, obviously they had been in the hospital for about, two months.

 

00;45;00;16 – 00;45;23;29

Laura Freeland

So Kyle was in the hospital for only six weeks. Okay. And then I was in the hospital for ten weeks. Okay. She came home right around her due date, right? Yeah. I’m, like, trying to remember, so. Yeah. So we had a month in between where we had one baby at home and one baby in the hospital. So, so that was really hard.

 

00;45;24;02 – 00;45;50;17

Laura Freeland

Yeah, we’re very fortunate. Yeah, we were super, super excited when Kyle got to come home because it was incredible. And she was so tiny. You know, they were like, they weren’t even 3 pounds and they were born. So yeah, there were these teeny tiny things when they came home. But it was so exciting and also scary. And I don’t think I slept at all the first night because we were so used to.

 

00;45;50;19 – 00;45;53;06

Dr. Mona

The alarms and.

 

00;45;53;08 – 00;46;25;08

Laura Freeland

Days. I know watching, watching this, you know, oxygen stats and watching the heart rate and seeing all this stuff. It’s something that I didn’t know about preemie babies is they make so much noise when they sleep. They sounded like little goats. When they came home. They made so much noise all that, all night long. And I think we only made it a few nights with her in the bedroom with us, because I couldn’t sleep.

 

00;46;25;11 – 00;46;44;06

Laura Freeland

I would constantly be looking at her. If she ever made a noise, I would wake up and have to check her and make sure that she was, you know, breathing and okay, but we were very lucky cause my mom was living with us part time when the babies were born, so she could stay home while we went to the hospital to be with.

 

00;46;44;08 – 00;46;46;18

Dr. Mona

Oh. Awesome. That’s great. So that you had help? Obviously.

 

00;46;46;18 – 00;46;47;19

Laura Freeland

So, yeah, it’s.

 

00;46;47;19 – 00;47;03;23

Dr. Mona

It’s, you know, I’m so happy that you were able to join me on this episode because, the experience of having two babies and then the fact that you went home first and then one day and then another. I mean, that’s a lot to organize and think about. I mean, you have one baby home, and then you have you’re thinking about the health of the other baby who’s still in the hospital.

 

00;47;03;23 – 00;47;08;00

Dr. Mona

I mean, it’s a lot. Wow. How are they doing now? I mean, they’re four.

 

00;47;08;02 – 00;47;23;01

Laura Freeland

So they’re amazing. I love it. Yeah, they are just the most incredible smart, sassy, spunky, all sassy, I love her. I know I’m.

 

00;47;23;01 – 00;47;39;00

Dr. Mona

Going to be very honest. I’ve talked about this already in other episodes of the new episode, but I feel like Nikki babies are like, fierce and sassy and like, they’re like, I’ll just do it. I’m just going to do things because I’ve been through everything already, like in life. And that’s it. They’re resilient, like they’re super resilient.

 

00;47;39;00 – 00;48;07;18

Laura Freeland

They’re so resilient. I, I think that’s what we just learned through the experience, like how strong these little people are because they’re so delicate and just so fragile. But yet they’re just these little fighters. And my kids, they weren’t sick. They were tiny. And they had, you know, the normal kind of like you thing speeding, growing and learning how to regulate the breathing and heart rate and all that stuff.

 

00;48;07;18 – 00;48;29;10

Laura Freeland

But they weren’t sick. So we were very, very lucky. But the daughter who came home later, she struggled with that breathing, swallowing, maintaining her, you know, fat and her heart rate. And and I was like, this kid is ever going to come home. She’s. Yeah. She took her forever to learn how to eat and breathe and do all the things.

 

00;48;29;12 – 00;48;44;16

Laura Freeland

And now, I mean, she is the sassier of the two, and she is the bigger of the two, and she will just do everything. And they’re hilarious. I, I love this.

 

00;48;44;18 – 00;49;01;13

Dr. Mona

I am like, I love, love, love my patients. I mean, I know how delicate, not delicate they are, but how delicate the whole experience was, right? I mean, there’s a lot happening. Whatever reason, a family ends up in the NICU. But I always tell my Nikki families, we are going to give the best outcome for this child.

 

00;49;01;13 – 00;49;19;19

Dr. Mona

And I, you know, a lot of my Nikki parents that come in or I meet, you know, on my Instagram, people are like, I have a Nikki baby or I’m worried I’m going to, you know, have a pre-term baby. I, you know, I know how hard that can be. But I also really like to remind families, like, what you’re saying is that there’s such positive outcomes with Nikki babies, I mean, even the ultra preemie ones.

 

00;49;19;25 – 00;49;20;24

Laura Freeland

But the interventions.

 

00;49;20;24 – 00;49;35;07

Dr. Mona

That we have in the ICU and the love of a family, I mean, the developmental outcomes and all of the things that they are like, it’s almost like you’ll go down the line, you’ll be like, I can’t believe that happened. Like I said, like this was such a big part of our life, being in the NICU. But you won’t even realize it.

 

00;49;35;07 – 00;49;53;05

Dr. Mona

They’re going to be like these, amazing for your children. Yeah, I love I love hearing these stories. Like, I’ve had such ultra preemies in my, I think the most when I say ultra like the most extreme preemie baby I had was 24 weeks. That’s my that’s the earliest I’ve had in my ICU. And that baby by two same thing was like, off of anything.

 

00;49;53;05 – 00;50;14;03

Dr. Mona

Like off. No oxygen feeding on their own, running, talking. And I’m just like, it’s just so awesome to see, you know, it’s just so uplifting to share these stories. I understand that there are stories of medical issues and things like that, obviously, but it is nice to hear these things too. You know, like, hey, there can be a light at the end of the tunnel.

 

00;50;14;06 – 00;50;31;26

Laura Freeland

Yeah, 100%. And that’s our nurses. They were so helpful to me, I think to my husband as well. But really to me as a mom, even though I knew that it wasn’t anything that I did right. But as a mom, I’m like, oh my gosh, like, my body failed, you know? And like, you know that that’s not what it is.

 

00;50;31;26 – 00;50;52;12

Laura Freeland

Yeah. So the question postpartum in your brain, like, no, that’s not your body didn’t feel like it’s this happens. This happens. There’s a whole wing at our hospital for people with this problem like this happens all the time. But when you’re there and you’re, you know, you’re sad because your babies are there and you’re not and you’re pumping and you just feel like there’s not everything that you can do.

 

00;50;52;14 – 00;51;16;08

Laura Freeland

But our nurses were just so positive and so supportive and so sweet and helpful. Like, do you want me to help you change this diaper? Let me show you how to do it. While they’re in the isolate. Let me help you give them a bath. Here. I’m going to show you how to do all these things and helping breastfeed and just helping all the time, and just being so positive and so, you know, they’re going to be fine.

 

00;51;16;08 – 00;51;39;03

Laura Freeland

We’ve seen this before. We’re in good hands. And even a year was like 1 or 2 years after I think my kids were two. I went to visit another twin mom who was on bedrest in the same hospital in the same way, and I was getting her coffee, and a nurse came up to me and she asked me if I was you know, Mariah with the twins, and she knew who I was.

 

00;51;39;06 – 00;52;03;26

Laura Freeland

And it was two years later and I didn’t even know who she was. So she probably took care of my kids at night. But she knew who I was and she knew who my kids were. And I just was like, again, shocked at just the caring. Yeah, incredible nature of the staff. I agree, it was amazing. I think it probably made me cry in the coffee shop, but how do you know who I am?

 

00;52;03;26 – 00;52;06;02

Laura Freeland

I never saw your face but oh.

 

00;52;06;04 – 00;52;22;23

Dr. Mona

No, they are, they are. I mean, I have some ICU nurses in my opinion, like any ICU nurse, is like all nurses are amazing, but the ICU nurses are like the cream of the crop. You know, the fact that they have to deal with such delicate situations, like a lot of emotions. I mean, there’s a lot of emotions when we’re in the ICU.

 

00;52;22;23 – 00;52;43;09

Dr. Mona

So they are like therapists. They’re therapists, they’re nurses, they’re friends. I mean, I agree with you completely. What do you think people don’t realize about the Nicki experience or being a Nicki mom? Like maybe some family members, if they say anything to you that you were like, oh, you guys don’t get it. Like things that you would wish people would know about the experience.

 

00;52;43;11 – 00;53;03;12

Laura Freeland

I mean, I didn’t even have any idea about Nicki lives, you know, and people would ask, you know, about coming to see the babies and people were allowed. I mean, my goodness, was four years ago, so people were allowed to come visit. But it’s different when your baby is, in the hospital like that rather than at home.

 

00;53;03;14 – 00;53;29;22

Laura Freeland

I just felt very protective of who I wanted to come or who I was going to, you know, let see that kind of vulnerable state, I guess. The whole Nic, you was just not expected for me. I for some reason, as a twin mom wasn’t thinking I was going to be there. And so many people, I’m like, you’re going to be early and your kids are going to be the Nicki.

 

00;53;29;22 – 00;53;54;11

Laura Freeland

I’m like, no, they’re not, they’re they’re not. I was just shocked by the whole thing. Just the amount of and then the amount of babies who are in the nic. You. Yeah. I think was huge to me prior to being there. I would have never had any concept of how many Nicki babies are there. And I think my hospital, we had 49 beds and every single one was like almost always full.

 

00;53;54;17 – 00;54;01;00

Laura Freeland

Yeah. And that’s like one of the major hospitals in my city. Yeah. What city are you in? What? I’m in Columbus, Ohio.

 

00;54;01;00 – 00;54;05;05

Dr. Mona

Yeah, yeah. So you’re in a big, like, probably a teaching facility. Yes. There’s a it’s a big hospital, correct?

 

00;54;05;05 – 00;54;24;20

Laura Freeland

Yes. And I mean, and we have a children’s hospital here too. Huge. Like we have many hospitals here. And I just there’s so many babies that are in various situations and they all need help. Yeah. I’m so lucky that we have, you know, what we have here?

 

00;54;24;22 – 00;54;42;21

Dr. Mona

Oh, this is so it was. Yeah. No, I, I completely, resonate. And I always knew from the other side, what the experience was like as a physician. But then when you’re on the other side, I was like, you know, you get a newfound appreciation for everything that happens in that place. You know, obviously there’s things that weren’t lovely.

 

00;54;42;21 – 00;54;56;28

Dr. Mona

I mean, I hated having to wear a mask because it was flu season, like all these things where I’m like, oh, my, my baby was already separated from me, and now I have to wear a mask like, oh, I’m like, I’m flu vaccinated. Like, I was so upset about it. Like, and I’m a physician. I know how this stuff works, right?

 

00;54;57;02 – 00;55;12;06

Dr. Mona

But I was so angry because I just wanted to see my baby, who I had not seen for 12 hours, and I wanted him to see my face. Right. And like, I took my mask down. You can’t take your mask down. I’m like, I want him to see my face like he can’t see me. And you know, they didn’t care about the fact that I was vaccinated.

 

00;55;12;06 – 00;55;17;25

Dr. Mona

Like, I was like, I have the vaccine. Like I’m not lying. Like I would never, you know, just come out. Yeah, this is.

 

00;55;17;27 – 00;55;18;00

Laura Freeland

Just.

 

00;55;18;02 – 00;55;21;19

Dr. Mona

For Covid. And I know how it’s going. And now with Covid, I can’t even imagine, you know.

 

00;55;21;21 – 00;55;22;16

Laura Freeland

I can’t either.

 

00;55;22;16 – 00;55;34;10

Dr. Mona

But I yeah, I this is just such a great conversation. What would be your final message for everyone listening? Maybe someone who’s going through something similar or who has gone through something similar, having twins or preterm babies in ICU.

 

00;55;34;13 – 00;56;04;02

Laura Freeland

So I think this kind of goes along with the last question too. I was kind of thinking about it more. I think being a parent of any baby who’s in the ICU, I think you’re stronger than you know that you are. I think you’ll be amazed at your ability to get through stuff and persevere, but I feel like you also need to make sure that you take care of yourself.

 

00;56;04;04 – 00;56;28;09

Laura Freeland

And that’s such an easy thing to say, and it seems so cliche, but I think it’s so important. And I think you can’t stress it enough to new moms, but especially new moms whose babies are in the hospital so you can’t have their babies at home with them. There’s so much stress. I know that I had a lot of trauma from the process, from the mom.

 

00;56;28;13 – 00;56;58;23

Laura Freeland

Just like mental trauma, almost PTSD. Not exactly. But it felt like that, and I carried it with me for a very long time, even though my kids are healthy and even though I. Yeah. So I feel like just you have to take care of yourself. That was one of the things that the nurses kept telling me. And actually, the night that I had, the night that I went home from the hospital and my kids were there, the lactation consultant nurse who was working with me, she said, listen, I want you to go home tonight and have a glass of wine.

 

00;56;58;26 – 00;57;19;18

Laura Freeland

She goes, you’re going to need to relax and just do something for yourself, okay? Just go home. It’s not going to hurt the milk. It’s not going to hurt your baby. Just go relax and do something for yourself because they need you to be strong. Yeah, and I didn’t know how strong I was until I went through that.

 

00;57;19;20 – 00;57;42;23

Laura Freeland

Yeah. And I hope everybody has a good team of people, but let people help you. Yeah. Let people care of you. Let people be there for you. And don’t be afraid to ask for help, even if it’s just to hold the baby for, you know, ten minutes or let you cry. And then their shoulder, if you’re stressed out and sad because there’s so many emotions with it.

 

00;57;42;25 – 00;57;58;24

Dr. Mona

This is the kind of final message that I love just because it resonates so much. Even if someone has not gone through the experience of being a new parent, this is something that all moms need to do, right? I mean, I love this, I, I so appreciate this. I mean, this is just right on. Thank you so much for joining me on this episode.

 

00;57;58;24 – 00;58;02;23

Dr. Mona

It was so nice chatting. And you have an Instagram account for your daughters.

 

00;58;02;23 – 00;58;05;14

Laura Freeland

Correct I do what’s.

 

00;58;05;14 – 00;58;07;08

Dr. Mona

The what’s the handle?

 

00;58;07;11 – 00;58;17;22

Laura Freeland

It is at Higher Math Twins. So it’s like you’re going to hire me. Okay. Do your math. H I r e math h twins.

 

00;58;17;24 – 00;58;34;27

Dr. Mona

Amazing. And they’re four and they’re spunky. And I love it. I am just so beautiful. Maria, thank you so much for joining me. It was just so nice chatting about your experience, how the girls are doing, and I know this is really going to help so much. I love the Mothers message series that I’ve been doing, and I’m just so glad that you could be a part of it today.

 

00;58;34;27 – 00;58;36;23

Dr. Mona

So thanks again for joining us.

 

00;58;36;29 – 00;58;45;07

Laura Freeland

Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I’m always happy to share. I always hope I can help somebody. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you so much.

 

00;58;45;14 – 00;59;00;05

Dr. Mona

Thank you for tuning in for this week’s episode. As always, please leave a review, share this episode with a friend. Share it on your social media. Make sure to follow me at PedsDocTalk on Instagram and subscribe to my YouTube channel, PedsDocTalk TV.

 

00;59;00;08 – 00;59;01;07

Dr. Mona

We’ll talk to you soon.