In this eye-opening and deeply needed episode, I sat down with Clayton Cranford—a 20-year law enforcement veteran, former school resource officer, crisis negotiator, national award winner, and founder of Cyber Safety Cop. Drawing from decades of experience at the intersection of youth culture, law enforcement, and online safety, Clay offers a clear-eyed look at the real-world impact smartphones and social media are having on kids today.

We dive into the growing movement toward “bell-to-bell” phone-free school policies, why parental pushback is often rooted in misplaced fear rather than reality, and how to successfully navigate screen-time standoffs at home. Clay shares actionable negotiation strategies to help parents recruit their kids as partners in building healthier digital habits, protect their mental health, and delay high-risk tech exposure.

We discuss:

• Clay’s transition from law enforcement and school resource officer to digital safety advocate

• What actually happens when schools enforce “bell-to-bell” phone-free policies during the school day

• Addressing common parental fears around school safety, abductions, and emergency access

• The real digital risks: fractured attention spans, exposure to explicit content, and mental health challenges

• Using crisis negotiation skills to handle screen-time standoffs without screaming matches

• The power of parenting pacts and delaying social media until high school

• How parents can advocate for phone-free policies within their local school districts and states

Connect with Clayton Cranford on Instagram @cybersafetycop and see all his resources at ⁠https://cybersafetycop.com/⁠ 

Buy Clayton’s books: Parenting in the Digital World: A Step-by-Step Guide to Internet Safety ⁠https://link.amazon/B06f8YHhJ⁠ and Radicalized Online: How Digital Platforms Shape the Path to Targeted Violence And How We Stop It ⁠https://link.amazon/B09IWsdSF⁠ (paid links)

Our podcasts are also now on YouTube. If you prefer a video podcast with closed captioning, check us out there and⁠ ⁠subscribe to PedsDocTalk⁠⁠.

Get trusted pediatric advice, relatable parenting insights, and evidence-based tips delivered straight to your inbox—join thousands of parents who rely on the PDT newsletter to stay informed, supported, and confident.⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Join the newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠!

Shop Dr. Mona’s favorite products: ⁠https://shopmy.us/shop/pedsdoctalk⁠ (paid link)

And don’t forget to follow⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠@pedsdoctalkpodcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ on Instagram—our new space just for parents looking for real talk and real support.

We love the sponsors that make this show possible! You can always find all the special deals and codes for all our current sponsors on the⁠ ⁠PedsDocTalk Podcast Sponsorships⁠⁠ page of the website.

00:00:41:08 – 00:01:02:06

Dr. Mona

Hello, doctor. Mona here, the host of the PedsDocTalk podcast. Also your online pediatrician. Maybe a mom friend that you feel you have in this world. I hope so. And the one who is about to propose. We all sign a group pact right now. Okay. You ready? No cell phones for our kids until 16. And if needed, prior, for whatever reason, give them a flip phone.

 

00:01:02:08 – 00:01:24:11

Dr. Mona

What do we think about that? Our kids do not need a smartphone as badly as we think they do, and neither do we need the headache that comes with it. Do you know what your kid is actually doing on their phone, between classes, or during lunch, or under the desk during a lesson? Have you ever wondered why phone free school policy is called Bell to Bell policies get so much pushback from parents of all people.

 

00:01:24:13 – 00:01:49:15

Dr. Mona

And is it possible the safest phone for a teenager is barely a phone at all? Today’s guest is Clay Cranford, a 20 year law enforcement veteran, school resource officer, school threat assessment investigator and crisis negotiator. He won the National Bullying Prevention Award, found Cyber Safety cop.com, and has authored two books, parenting in the Digital World and Screen Time Standoff.

 

00:01:49:17 – 00:02:15:11

Dr. Mona

Since 2013, he and his team have taught cyber safety to students and parents across the country. So this is someone who has seen exactly what happens on the other side of that screen. We are talking about why phone free school policies help kids thrive. What is really happening on campuses when phones are in the mix and when they’re not, and why so many parents resist the very thing that could make their kids safer, both physically and emotionally.

 

00:02:15:13 – 00:02:36:01

Dr. Mona

If you feel like you are the only parent holding the line on cell phones either now or for your future teen while everyone else lets them have one. You’re not alone, and this episode will back you up if you don’t agree. I hope that you listen to the conversation to hear our perspective on why we both agree that phone free schools are the way to go.

 

00:02:36:03 – 00:03:00:09

Dr. Mona

And remember to download the full episode wherever you get your podcasts. Subscribe if you have not already, and share this on social media so more people can hear this perspective. Tag the PedsDocTalk podcast, PedsDocTalk, and Cyber Safety Cop. When you do, let’s get into this really important nuanced conversation.

 

00:03:00:11 – 00:03:03:14

Dr. Mona

Thank you for joining me today, Clay.

 

00:03:03:17 – 00:03:07:01

Clayton Cranford

Thank you, Doctor Mona. Yeah. Great to be with you and your listeners.

 

00:03:07:04 – 00:03:24:21

Dr. Mona

Well, what an intro. You’ve been a busy man for the last 20 years. For anyone who’s not familiar with who you are. Tell us what sort of prompted this sort of shift into cyber safety. Because, of course, it didn’t sound like you started with that, right? You’re a law enforcement veteran, school resource officer. So why are you doing this?

 

00:03:24:21 – 00:03:27:17

Dr. Mona

Why do you think it’s so important for this resource in the world?

 

00:03:27:19 – 00:03:47:11

Clayton Cranford

Yeah, well, I was a school resource officer in 2010, and this was notably when the iPhone four came out with the forward facing camera. And so we went from the vast majority of teens having flip phones to over the course of a few years, almost all of them having smartphones. And I was in, in a city of 14,000 students.

 

00:03:47:11 – 00:04:16:00

Clayton Cranford

I had nine schools. So we saw it. I saw it happening real time where I had just, you know, bullying and the sexting and all the things happening all at once at like, large scale and, and parents just really, you know, flummoxed and just, you know, upset and worried and confused and, and students who were just kind of making up their own rules in the digital world and finding out that the digital world was, was a real world, with real world consequences.

 

00:04:16:00 – 00:04:32:29

Clayton Cranford

So that’s where all of this came from. It just and also as a parent, at that time, I was raising two boys, still and they’re, they’re 21 and, 23, but still raising them. And so I was trying to figure this out as a, as a parent as well. So, yeah, it was just kind of necessity more than anything.

 

00:04:32:29 – 00:04:49:24

Clayton Cranford

And, and I love healthy families and, and parent when I’m looking across to another parent, I’m like, you’re me. And you love your kid. Like, just like I love my child. And so I would just have these conversations with parents where they’re breaking down, you know, and saying, I didn’t know what was going on with my kid. And it was just heartbreaking.

 

00:04:49:24 – 00:05:12:07

Clayton Cranford

So that’s where I ended up today. You know, that’s it’s been 13, you know, plus years, talked to hundreds of thousands of students, tens of thousands of parents. And it’s been a real blessing, to have this kind of, like, throughout my career and now post law enforcement, but, but yeah, we’re just kind of we’re dedicated to, safe schools, healthy families, empowered parents.

 

00:05:12:07 – 00:05:14:09

Clayton Cranford

That’s that’s kind of what we do every day.

 

00:05:14:12 – 00:05:28:21

Dr. Mona

I love it. And you mentioned, you know, the parents were like, what is going on? Like, what do we do here? Do you feel like this sort of kind of happened where people didn’t expect or know how to handle the resources they now had, like now they have these phones. And parents were kind of feeling like, what do we do with this?

 

00:05:28:21 – 00:05:37:06

Dr. Mona

Like what was the sort of sentiment when, especially when that iPhone came out, with parents and kids and, you know, boundaries and what it means for their child’s mental health?

 

00:05:37:08 – 00:05:44:01

Clayton Cranford

Yeah. So, all the questions and all the issues are the same. Nothing’s changed. In fact, I might argue that things have gotten worse.

 

00:05:44:06 – 00:05:44:28

Dr. Mona

I agree. I mean, there’s.

 

00:05:45:01 – 00:06:05:23

Clayton Cranford

There’s more kids online. There’s more opportunities for exploitation. There’s more opportunities for exposure to inappropriate material. All that’s happening, and parents really aren’t any better off. In fact, they may be worse off because they’re making life decisions based on, I think, misplaced fear. And they’re giving children phones that earlier and earlier ages because they think this is keeping them safe.

 

00:06:05:23 – 00:06:25:29

Clayton Cranford

And and this is like part of the, the issues with, with schools going phone free, which is the right thing to do. But the but the the friction right is parents. Parents are the ones who are pushing back because of this misplaced fear. And so this is in fact, when I talk to parents, this is one of the things that I cover is like, what is the reality?

 

00:06:25:29 – 00:06:34:17

Clayton Cranford

Like what’s really going on here and what you think might be, you know, a thing that might keep your kid safe may actually be doing the quite the opposite.

 

00:06:34:19 – 00:06:53:02

Dr. Mona

Yeah. I grew up, in the 90s, early 2000. I graduated high school, 2003. And I think it’s important for this conversation because we still had flip phones around that time. Some kids in high school had them. I did not have a cell phone. I would just have to call my parents or communicate in, like, the olden days, right?

 

00:06:53:04 – 00:07:11:05

Dr. Mona

And I like that childhood. You know, I think back to that sort of high school years where we do not have the cell phone. We didn’t have social media on top of that. I think about how I was bullied as a child in junior high or middle school, whatever people want to call that, and how you kind of left the bullying at the schoolyard, right?

 

00:07:11:05 – 00:07:34:10

Dr. Mona

It didn’t carry you and follow you through social media apps and all of that. And now here I am, raising a five year old and a two year old, and we’re thinking about the screen use when it comes to, you know, cartoons and educational apps. But of course, as a pediatrician taking care of teenagers and knowing what’s down the line, also thinking of safe use when it comes to when they have the autonomy, right?

 

00:07:34:10 – 00:07:54:13

Dr. Mona

The, social media access, what age makes the most sense and school free, you know, policies. You know, when we talk about, not having phones, in schools. And I would love to start this conversation with what’s happening on campuses across the country. You’ve worked with countless schools. What are you seeing when it comes to phone use during the school day?

 

00:07:54:16 – 00:08:05:00

Dr. Mona

And what are our kids really doing on their phones, between classes, during lunch, or even during lessons? And is this a good thing? Is it a bad thing? Is it something that has benefit? What are you seeing with that use in school?

 

00:08:05:04 – 00:08:24:10

Clayton Cranford

Yeah. So most schools have I think at a, at a at a very base level have a no. You know, don’t have your phones out during instructional time. Right. I as a as a starter. The problem with that is that kids are still using it during instructional time. And that teacher is is trying to like get through that lesson.

 

00:08:24:10 – 00:08:45:15

Clayton Cranford

And they’re trying to maintain control of that classroom, especially when you’re dealing with teens in middle school and high school. Things get a little more kinetic eventually. And so I talk to a lot of educators in schools where they’ve they’ve they’ve banned phones, bell to bell. And on a very basic level, those teachers are telling me, like, I have a better relationship with those kids because I’m not in this.

 

00:08:45:15 – 00:09:07:23

Clayton Cranford

Put your phone away. Give me your phone. Yeah. This kind of, tug of war thing going on. And so that’s immediately gone. And then I’m also there also seeing that there is, attention, in the classroom. That’s really great. Like something they hadn’t seen before. Like, even if a kid has that phone accessible in their pocket, they’re always wondering, like, is there something going on right now?

 

00:09:07:29 – 00:09:26:09

Clayton Cranford

Yeah. Or maybe they’re getting notifications in there, like maybe sneaky peeks or whatever the case may be, but just removing that from the equation has has it made things better? In the classroom and then I talk to administrators, the ones who are walking around and school resource officers were walking around during the lunch period or the nutrition or playground, whatever.

 

00:09:26:12 – 00:09:49:12

Clayton Cranford

What they’re seeing is kids looking each other in the eye, talking and engaging and and that social aspect is something that we don’t really talk. We talk a lot about the harms way. We talk about, the mental health. We talk about the bullying. But like a really important piece of this is like the socialization that’s kind of being lost with these devices.

 

00:09:49:15 – 00:10:09:16

Clayton Cranford

And I mean, most for a lot of kids, there are tire world shrunk to a five inch screen and that’s it. Yeah. So by removing that your the, the fractured, attention spans that kids are learning at a very young age is because they’re flipping through, you know, reels and things like that. So across the board what they’re seeing are healthier, happier kids.

 

00:10:09:18 – 00:10:31:13

Clayton Cranford

They’re seeing, better classwork. They’re seeing they’re just seeing better behaviors across the board. And I speak at national conferences every summer, a lot of the school safety conferences, and I always do a survey, and the 80 plus percent of the administrators are saying that all our behavior, our behavior issues are coming from devices like 80 plus percent.

 

00:10:31:15 – 00:10:52:18

Clayton Cranford

So if we able to kind of maybe shift that, then those administrators can work on education and other things and then have to be, you know, dissecting and unraveling, something that happened on TikTok over the weekend. Right. So it’s just there’s a there’s there’s so many things connected to this beyond just the mental health issues, which are we you know, I think we need to talk about.

 

00:10:52:18 – 00:10:56:09

Clayton Cranford

But yeah, it’s just making healthier, happier kids across the board.

 

00:10:56:12 – 00:11:00:19

Dr. Mona

Are you a proponent of bell to Bell policies to not have school, phones in the school?

 

00:11:00:19 – 00:11:01:17

Clayton Cranford

Absolutely.

 

00:11:01:17 – 00:11:09:04

Dr. Mona

Okay. Yeah, I am too. I mean, I, I’m curious because, you know, we talk about those policies. I, I believe the LA Unified School District has a bell to pop policy.

 

00:11:09:08 – 00:11:27:03

Clayton Cranford

They they’re kind of the one of the first ones who are doing it. And they’re courageous because they’re getting a lot of parents, pushing back. And, and parents are claiming that it’s a safety issue to have that, not not having that phone. And that’s nothing could be further from the truth. I mean, I can kind of talk about those things.

 

00:11:27:03 – 00:11:49:10

Dr. Mona

Yeah, I was I was just going to dive into that. I was like, you know, I, I agree with you that as a parent, I would love a phone free school to school Bell to school bell situation. I think it’s very valuable. I think, like you said perfectly, those hallway interactions are very useful. The you know, how we how we communicate with our teachers are lost when a child’s distracted on that phone.

 

00:11:49:13 – 00:12:08:04

Dr. Mona

And I think about it for us, too, right? I mean, adults too. I think we have lost sort of the ability to sort of have those small little minutia moments with each other because we tend to just take out our phone and distract ourselves with it. And I believe that is very powerful as human beings to have those small moments.

 

00:12:08:04 – 00:12:17:25

Dr. Mona

You know, some people don’t like it, some people don’t like small talk, some we don’t like connection like that. But it is part of being a social like being a human being is that, you know, having those interactions.

 

00:12:17:28 – 00:12:19:21

Clayton Cranford

Yeah. Parents need to model this.

 

00:12:19:24 – 00:12:20:07

Dr. Mona

Yes.

 

00:12:20:08 – 00:12:39:12

Clayton Cranford

And we’re and we’re guilty. Right? We’re guilty of filling those little moments with a, with a, with a, with a TikTok reel or something. So yeah, we should be modeling this, in our own homes and creating time and space for that, for that kind of healthy interaction to be happening in the family. And I think that maybe like where it should start.

 

00:12:39:12 – 00:12:58:08

Clayton Cranford

But yeah, in schools, you know, schools can’t do everything. This actually has to be more of a parent led movement because when a kid comes home from school and let’s say your parent is like, hey, I don’t want to give you social media, like, you know, Clay Cranford says you shouldn’t have social media to your 16. Right?

 

00:12:58:15 – 00:13:23:12

Clayton Cranford

And so the parents like, go to my presentation like, okay. And then their kid, you know, is, you know, 14 year old, 15 year old comes home and says, mom and dad, everybody has it. Yeah, everybody has Snapchat, everybody has Instagram. And that social pressure is intense. So it’d be really great if all parents got together and just said, hey, we’re just going to say as a parent group, no smartphones till high school and no social media till 16.

 

00:13:23:14 – 00:13:46:12

Clayton Cranford

And if a kid like legitimately needs a phone for whatever reason prior to that, it should be a flip phone, right? It should be something that’s not internet. You know, app type of device. So it should be something that’s like a flip phone or a watch or something. The more we delay these things, research is showing like better mental health outcomes.

 

00:13:46:15 – 00:14:03:20

Dr. Mona

I love that pact. I talk about that with my husband all the time with many different things, especially related to screens or other parenting philosophies. And I’m like, if all of us just get together and just say that we’re not going to do this because I, I absolutely respect the peer pressure. I myself would love to have that same policy you just mentioned.

 

00:14:03:26 – 00:14:22:08

Dr. Mona

No phone until high school, no social media until 16. That is what I envision in my head. But my kids are five and two. What is the climate going to look like? Or 95% of their friends going to have social, and now they’re being ostracized because they’re the one kid whose mom is, you know, the pediatrician saying, nope, I don’t want that.

 

00:14:22:10 – 00:14:40:08

Dr. Mona

And so that is hard. And you mentioned this and I would love to dive into this concept, is the pushback. What is it that parents are afraid of? Why do they feel scared of not having that access to their child? Also, knowing that when we were growing up, we didn’t have access to our parents at on the school day as well.

 

00:14:40:08 – 00:14:51:11

Dr. Mona

So what’s changed? Now let’s take a quick break to hear from our sponsors who support helps us keep bringing you this show. Oh.

 

00:14:51:13 – 00:15:10:22

Clayton Cranford

So, okay, so let me caveat this by saying that I take school safety very seriously. I was school resource officer. I was on our countywide threat assessment team, so I went to hundreds of schools anytime there. Threats of violence, by the way, most of happening on social media and and I teach and I do that now. I teach schools how to do this.

 

00:15:10:22 – 00:15:30:00

Clayton Cranford

I teach how to, you know, lockdowns and all that. So, like, I’m very serious about it. I read the research and, and I care about school safety. So that being said, one of the issues that parents say like, well, you know, if there’s a if there’s a, violence in my school, my child’s school, like a school shooting, I just want to make sure my kid can call me.

 

00:15:30:00 – 00:15:50:07

Clayton Cranford

Well, okay, so a couple of things. Number one, the chances of your child being injured in a school shooting are it’s not a it’s not zero. Like, it’s not a not it’s not a zero. Not it’s a non zero. You know probability but it’s really close to zero. It’s like no, no more than I think ten children die every year in a school shooting.

 

00:15:50:07 – 00:16:10:08

Clayton Cranford

Not it’s obviously ten too many. But we’re talking about 52 million children, you know, K through 12 in the United States. So that’s like .000 like two something percent. Right. And so, so like on on any given day, there’s like a 1 in 614,000,000, chance that your child would be would be injured in a school shooting.

 

00:16:10:08 – 00:16:31:24

Clayton Cranford

So. It’s, like, not likely to happen in schools. The safest place for your child to be safer than their own home, statistically. But then you’re like, okay, what if there was a critical incident, like, what would we want to happen? Like, what would be the safest situation? Well, I can tell you that your child being on a phone and trying to text you would not be the safest situation.

 

00:16:31:24 – 00:16:55:08

Clayton Cranford

I know that would make you feel better as a parent. I mean, I’m a parent. I would want my child to be able to call me if they’re scared, but in that moment, what they should be doing is being hands free, looking at the adult who’s in charge and like listening for instructions. That’s what should be happening. So anything other than that happening is creating risk in a, in a situation that is a potentially critical situation.

 

00:16:55:08 – 00:17:01:05

Clayton Cranford

And we need that split second kind of compliance and attention.

 

00:17:01:07 – 00:17:16:24

Dr. Mona

So very valid point I love I love that you brought that up because that is the you know, we think that as a mom. Yeah. As a parent, like I want the contact, but they need to be able to respond and react and go places that they need to be and hide and whatever they need to do. But depending on what the threat is, obviously.

 

00:17:16:24 – 00:17:30:11

Dr. Mona

But the school shootings is something that I think I hear a lot of when I talk about phone free and you know, what we’re doing here and, you know, they’re like, well, I want to be able to communicate and I love that you’re bringing up stats because it’s true. Yeah. It doesn’t it doesn’t mean that we don’t care about this.

 

00:17:30:11 – 00:17:34:21

Dr. Mona

Obviously I’m a very big proponent of safety in schools, but it is rare as you’re saying.

 

00:17:34:27 – 00:17:58:00

Clayton Cranford

Yeah. It just it just it gets you right here as a parent. Yes. And it’s, it’s that, that primal fear that you have that but again, it doesn’t really that’s not really based in reality. And the other one is, abductions. Right. Like I don’t want my child abducted. And I think, like, my generation of parents, we grew up, you know, eating cereal this morning, you know, filling our syllable from a milk, you know, card that had some kid’s face on it.

 

00:17:58:03 – 00:18:17:18

Clayton Cranford

And so you’re just thinking like, oh, my gosh, these kids are being abducted everywhere. And, you know, and then, you know, in 2001, there were a rash of, of abductions throughout the United States, but not that many. But it was, you know, 24 hour news. The Amber alert system was created. My boy was my first son was like one year old at that time.

 

00:18:17:21 – 00:18:48:27

Clayton Cranford

And so as a parent, I kind of also and 911 happened shortly thereafter. I think there’s all these things happening that I think kind of just seared our our consciousness about it. And, but the reality is, is that, the vast majority of children who are abducted or abducted by a parent in a non-custodial parent. And so when you look at just stranger abductions, which 98% of them of those children are returned safely, we’re not talking any more than 100 a year out of the 72 million children who live in the United States.

 

00:18:48:27 – 00:19:10:19

Clayton Cranford

And so that number is like 0.000, like 2 or 3% of children. And so the likelihood of that ever happening is, is so incredibly low, it shouldn’t be something that should even be remotely on your radar. I, I’m, I’m working on the fourth edition of my book, and so I’m doing some additional research, and I found this book called Living Dangerously.

 

00:19:10:22 – 00:19:32:04

Clayton Cranford

And he looks in the in the author looks at these kind of, what we think are threats to our safety. And, you know, statistically, how likely are they. And this one, he said, for this particular one, he said, if you if you wanted your child to be abducted, how long would you have to leave your child outside unattended for that statistically to be like, how many days statistically to be significant?

 

00:19:32:06 – 00:19:53:20

Clayton Cranford

It was like 7 or 25,000 years, like your child would have to. Yeah, because it’s just not it’s just not going to happen. It’s just not going to happen. So, yeah, the bottom line is, as soon as you put a phone in a child’s hand, no matter what their a smartphone in their hand, no matter what age they are, you created a scenario and connected with people that could never have happened otherwise.

 

00:19:53:22 – 00:20:19:20

Clayton Cranford

Yeah. And, in 2020, the National Center for Missing Exploited Children put out a stat that, I’m sure it’s updated by now, but, it’s one I can recall. 80, 82% of all human trafficking and sexual exploitation cases began with a device. So, you know, when, when we were children or the only people that were around were the people in our neighborhoods.

 

00:20:19:20 – 00:20:41:14

Clayton Cranford

Right, right. That was kind of what, what you’re dealing with or in our communities. But today when a child is online, they have, you know, tens of millions or maybe billions of people, in their pocket with them in their bedroom with them. And so if you were even a Google like recent cases of children being abducted, almost all of them, it seems like, are people that they met online.

 

00:20:41:16 – 00:20:59:08

Clayton Cranford

So, again, this perception of fear really doesn’t line up with the reality. And I usually, I usually just kind of junk supposes for parents that, hey, you know, when you put your kid in the car, are you, are you wracked with fear and anxiety? And parents are like, no. And like, no. Yeah. Because you do it every day.

 

00:20:59:08 – 00:21:18:26

Clayton Cranford

You don’t think about it. But the truth is that like your child being injured or killed in a car accident are tens of thousands of times more likely than any bad thing that could happen at school. And and we’re so concerned about these little things that we’re missing the bigger picture, which is by putting their device in their hands, you’re opening a door.

 

00:21:18:26 – 00:21:48:15

Clayton Cranford

It’s a it’s a gateway input and potentially to predators, to anxiety, depression, self-harm, children who hurt themselves. Yeah. Has exploded since 2010. For girls, it’s gone up 311%. That was something I dealt with all the time as a school resource officer young girls, elementary, middle and high school who were engaging in non suicidal self-injury. And and I think now it’s like 1 in 6 girls, teen girls are doing it.

 

00:21:48:18 – 00:22:10:28

Clayton Cranford

And this was not a thing before 2010. I mean it was a thing, but it wasn’t at this level. So we’re just kind of as parents, we were we’re doing things based on what we think is best. We love our kids, but I think the the information is now making it, I think, rather obvious that this is not a reasonable choice.

 

00:22:10:28 – 00:22:16:27

Clayton Cranford

You’re choosing a device for safety, but really what you’re getting is the opposite.

 

00:22:16:29 – 00:22:36:21

Dr. Mona

Well, that phrase right there should be like the the title of the episode. Right? Because I think you really brought home that the intention is safety. I think every parent thinks that, yeah, this is what’s going to keep my kid safe. But in reality, the exchange is obviously a lot of things that parents might not consider. Now, you already brought up the depression, anxiety.

 

00:22:36:21 – 00:22:56:08

Dr. Mona

What other things? Parents, what other things are we exposing our children by allowing the screen that parents might not think about? Right? The risks of cell phone use are having screen time use, and we can differentiate it if it’s app use screen time, like if you want to explain that terminology, whatever it is. What are those less obvious dangers of cell phone access?

 

00:22:56:11 – 00:23:13:15

Clayton Cranford

Well, I mean you can start very young. So we have like, you know, toddlers and newborns with iPads and they’re just, you know, swiping through things. So it’s it’s really at that level. It’s it’s this, you know, operant behavior device. Right. Like you get a you get a stimulus, get a response and then you get a reward.

 

00:23:13:15 – 00:23:37:15

Clayton Cranford

Right. And so it’s rewarding them moving through these things. And screen after screen after screen or image after image video that the video. And so this is creating this brain that’s really operating on this, these like really fast dopamine hits. And what and what teachers are seeing with young children coming into the school system is that they really have a hard time, you know, attending, you know, doing a task.

 

00:23:37:15 – 00:23:54:02

Clayton Cranford

They they want to move from thing to thing to thing. So this fragmented attention, I think, is something that is kind of emerging that we’re seeing. And I think it’s something we need to be taking serious. I know the American Academy of Pediatrics says no screens before 18 months and very limited, up to two years, maybe a hour.

 

00:23:54:09 – 00:24:12:12

Clayton Cranford

So I think there are some good screens. I think sitting with your kid watching a long form video, a movie or something, where there’s a, there’s a moral to the story, right? Like there’s some values being expressed there that are good. You sit there, you and you, it’s social. You’re doing it with you, doing it with them, or they’re with a sibling maybe.

 

00:24:12:15 – 00:24:48:05

Clayton Cranford

And then there’s an opportunity to talk about it. Maybe during after having some. So like it’s it’s more of it’s not that interactive experience, but it’s, it’s an experience that I think, I think we’re all kind of familiar with because that’s kind of how we were raised. Right. Or hopefully you had a parent that was there. So but but then you have, expert early exposure to very, intense, sexual content and, and some really, extreme caustic and, violent stuff that, that can be exposed because we often talk about, like, pornography and what that is.

 

00:24:48:05 – 00:25:09:07

Clayton Cranford

But there’s also violence and hate speech, and there’s other things that are being exposed at very early ages that are that are changing our kids and what they think. So, that’s another big one. And it’s like almost impossible to filter it out. I mean, it’s just I raise two boys and if you’re just mind your own business, you’re going to bump into it.

 

00:25:09:07 – 00:25:41:28

Clayton Cranford

But if you’re curious or you look for it, you’re going to find it, and you can literally find it everywhere. So, you know, one of the things that I cover in my book is, you know, how to talk. So, so conversation is going to outpace surveillance. Yeah. And filtering. So we just need to start. You need to talk to your child and say, hey, you know, maybe at a young age when we do a presentation for K through three and what we tell them is like, hey, if you see something that makes you feel sad, scared or confused, turn off the screen and go to your trusted adult and ask for help.

 

00:25:42:00 – 00:26:02:05

Clayton Cranford

And so I think that’s a really that’s a good place to start with with a younger child, because if they have access to any screen and and actually this is true for just anything, right? If they ever feel that way, they should always go to a trusted adult. And then as we get with older kids, we start talking more specifically about why this isn’t good for their brain.

 

00:26:02:07 – 00:26:21:27

Clayton Cranford

And it’s like the same conversation you would have about drugs, right? Like the short term, the short term, consequence of drugs is that they make you feel good, right? Like you you get that intoxication, you get that high and it feels good. And maybe you’re doing with somebody and that’s good. That feels good too. But then the long term.

 

00:26:21:29 – 00:26:46:05

Clayton Cranford

Right. Is that it? It can destroy you addiction, all those other things. So that’s the same conversation in looking at this really sensational stuff, maybe violent or sexual. The short term it’s exciting a lot of dopamine. But the long term is that it? It it changes you and what you think is true about relationships. What you think is true about other people, especially like other groups of people.

 

00:26:46:07 – 00:26:53:09

Clayton Cranford

And that changes you in a way that that’s not healthy. And so those are conversations that probably need to happen earlier than most parents think.

 

00:26:53:13 – 00:27:11:03

Dr. Mona

Yeah. And I, I love that you’re bringing it down to the younger ages and that you’ve had conversations in that K to three because I also you know, we have an iPad. But it was something that we were very conscious about when we introduced the iPad. What our children are using the iPad for our younger still at the time of this recording, doesn’t have access to the iPad.

 

00:27:11:03 – 00:27:43:18

Dr. Mona

She’s two, but my five year old does, and we know it’s timed. We have certain times that he’s allowed it and, you know, family connections, important if we’re going to watch a movie. I love what you said. It’s social because that’s kind of what movie watching should be, whether it’s him and his sibling, whether it’s me, they’re and usually I’m in the room to watching the movie with them or in and out, you know, going into the kitchen, coming back, asking about what did Lilo do or what stitch doing, you know, like whatever it may be, but it is important that we understand the foundational things that we’re doing early on.

 

00:27:43:20 – 00:28:00:00

Dr. Mona

You already mentioned already how are we using screens is so important to me. I, I think a lot of parents forget about parental screen use. They think only about the kids screen use. And I’m like, well, we’re talking about these, you know, setting boundaries or setting some limits. And I’m like, what are what is your screen use?

 

00:28:00:00 – 00:28:16:12

Dr. Mona

Like and I was at the dinner table. I’m like, well, how are we going to get the buy in from the kid if you yourself are not following, you know, practicing what you preach, you know, and we we talk a lot about this sort of phones should stay out of schools. Ideal situation. We’d all have a parenting pact.

 

00:28:16:17 – 00:28:41:18

Dr. Mona

But of course when kids come home, there should be some healthy, realistic boundaries around the screen time. So what is your sort of philosophy around what that can look like, and how do we actually get the buy in and understanding from the children especially? You’re thinking like you’re older, school age adolescents, that have their peers that have it and want to do the screen use as well.

 

00:28:41:21 – 00:28:47:18

Dr. Mona

Now let’s take a quick break to hear from our sponsors who support helps us keep bringing you this show.

 

00:28:47:20 – 00:29:05:22

Clayton Cranford

Oh well, your question is a question I’ve heard many, many times parents come up to me after my talks and usually the in that with how do I do that without like a fight like door slamming and and it seems like whenever I talked to my kid about screens or setting up boundaries, I get it. Just it’s not good.

 

00:29:05:24 – 00:29:26:27

Clayton Cranford

And that’s why I wrote that book. Screen time. Stand off. So I use my I use my crisis negotiation skills, which actually, strangely, translate really nicely over to parenthood and for and dealing with screens because you want your child to agree or to be on your side. You’re trying to recruit your child to to your side, which is, hey, I’m not trying to take it all away from you.

 

00:29:26:27 – 00:29:47:15

Clayton Cranford

I’m just let’s just talk about how to do it in a healthy let’s let’s be healthy. Yeah. With with the devices. So you want your child to do that and by and by the and the way you do that is by including them in that conversation. So being a good listener. So as parents, one of the things that we like to do when our child has a problem, we want to step in and fix it.

 

00:29:47:17 – 00:30:21:22

Clayton Cranford

And that’s not maybe the right thing to do in certain circumstances. Most of the time when your child comes to you with a problem, the most important thing to do is listen. Yeah. And, one of the little one of the things that I taught, I teach in my book, that actually one of the first things I learned as a crisis negotiator that made a huge difference for me and how I communicate with my children and my wife was when they would come and say, hey, dad, you know, this horrible thing happened, at school, my friend said this and this and made me feel bad.

 

00:30:21:25 – 00:30:38:12

Clayton Cranford

And the first thing I do is I repeat back to him what he told me, almost just kind of paraphrase, paraphrasing. Wow, that sounds really horrible that your friend did this. And I bet that really made you feel sad. And he’s like, yeah. I’m like, well, why don’t why don’t you tell me more about it? And then so we talk about it.

 

00:30:38:12 – 00:30:57:00

Clayton Cranford

So at the very least he feels like, hey, my, my, my dads listen to me. He’s not telling me my feelings are wrong because our, our gut reaction is, no, no, no, that’s not true. That you’re not. You know, your friend said you’re dumb, you’re not dumb. And you know, you, you know, like we’re shutting down their, their their the way they feel.

 

00:30:57:00 – 00:31:12:22

Clayton Cranford

So now I’m listening to you. I, you it’s okay for you to feel the way you’re feeling. And then we start talking about, hey, so how do you, how would you like to go from here? Like, how would you like to talk to your friend about this? And so it’s a lot of open ended questions and then helping them.

 

00:31:12:25 – 00:31:14:26

Clayton Cranford

And I’m kind of guiding them right to the right answer.

 

00:31:15:03 – 00:31:15:28

Dr. Mona

Yeah.

 

00:31:16:00 – 00:31:37:13

Clayton Cranford

But it’s the same thing for screens. You know, if, if you if you’re on screens till late and you’re, and you’re not getting up and ready for school in the morning and having this big fight every morning, like, how do you think we can, how do you think we can fix that? Like, what are your ideas and or and if they come up with an idea, here’s another tidbit from the book.

 

00:31:37:15 – 00:32:00:07

Clayton Cranford

Ask them, how do we know if this works. So if your kid’s like well I’m going to I’m going to set my alarm and you’re not in and I’m going to get up ten minutes earlier and whatever, whatever they say okay. You know that’s, that’s a great idea. How will we know if this works. And then they help us spell out the the parameters and like, well, this will work if I get up on my own, you don’t have to wake me up and we don’t have a fight.

 

00:32:00:07 – 00:32:17:22

Clayton Cranford

And I’m standing at the door ready to go at 8 a.m., whatever the time is. Okay, great. And if you don’t do that, then we may look at moving back that, you know, maybe getting you off screens early or whatever the thing is. Okay, so there’s all buy in and we see how it goes and we make and we make changes and we make adjustments.

 

00:32:17:24 – 00:32:36:19

Clayton Cranford

But but your kid is part of that. And I’m really talking about a teen, right. Like if we’re talking about much younger children, then maybe it’s just like you just set up the rules and like, these are the rules. Like it’s a little more top down, right? But for the most part, a lot of the problems can be managed in this kind of cooperative setting.

 

00:32:36:21 – 00:32:54:28

Clayton Cranford

And in my book I also talk about like, you know, if you have objections, how do you overcome the objections in a way that you create more agreement, important negotiation skills? So and I even give you like a form that you fill out for, for creating a boundary with your creating boundaries with your kid. And I explain how to do that.

 

00:32:55:00 – 00:33:17:24

Clayton Cranford

So it’s, it’s every family’s a little different. And but I think there’s some important kind of foundational things that, that are, I think, true regardless. But you know, how it actually happens in your home may change a little bit, but ideally, the basic skills and the basic ideas I think are going to work for most families.

 

00:33:17:24 – 00:33:33:18

Clayton Cranford

And if it and of course, you can tweak these things if necessary. But yeah, we need our kids to buy in because if they don’t, they can they can go. So they can go other places and get online, do whatever they want. You want a kid who’s bought into what you want them to do?

 

00:33:33:21 – 00:33:49:22

Dr. Mona

Yeah. And that collaborative approach where it’s like, we’re a team here. And I think, you know, what happens a lot is I think when kids are younger, parents feel like, like you said, that there’s this sort of boundary, I have to create the boundary because my kid is too and shouldn’t be pulling a wire out of the the side of the, you know, the wall.

 

00:33:49:25 – 00:34:07:04

Dr. Mona

But of course, that’s a safety issue and this is still part of safety. But obviously we have to remember that the brain has developed a little bit more. It has its autonomy, it has its choices. It’s out in the real world that you have to pivot and have that collaborative approach. And I will also say that even for my 4 or 5 year old, we do collaboration.

 

00:34:07:04 – 00:34:21:28

Dr. Mona

You know, he wants his iPad and wants to play his educational app. And I say, hey, look, right now that’s not the time for that, but let’s see if we can put it on our little visual calendar. You know, for all of my listeners who may have younger kids and when can we put that in there? Because today we’re busy with this.

 

00:34:21:28 – 00:34:37:14

Dr. Mona

And maybe on the weekend we can do that. And I think the biggest thing that shows our children trust is the follow through also, right, that if my son expects that, I’m going to allow him to have screen time at five on a weekend and I say, oh wait, nevermind, I changed my mind again. He’s like, mommy doesn’t mean business.

 

00:34:37:14 – 00:34:55:28

Dr. Mona

So I’m very clear on following through and saying, hey, you know what? We talked about this. I remember we talked about this. How’s it going? Like you said, like, how are we doing with it? Are we assessing if it’s working? I told you that you can have screen time and here it is. Or hey, we can’t do it because of X, Y, and Z.

 

00:34:55:28 – 00:35:12:05

Dr. Mona

But I recognize that this is a change of what we discussed. So here we go. And I think that trust is such a healthy foundation as well. You know that I see you I know what you’re looking for. I know what the screen may mean to you, but at the end of the day, we’re the parent that’s responsible for the safety.

 

00:35:12:08 – 00:35:29:27

Dr. Mona

And it goes back to what I think we both agree on is I wish in an ideal world, that we can just keep it out of schools until, you know, the the high school and social media until 16. I do believe it from a developmental standpoint and at home, it may be easier to make that happen because there’s no outside influence.

 

00:35:29:27 – 00:35:53:13

Dr. Mona

But you brought such great tips to this. Now, how can we as parents, maybe parents that want to do what we’re talking about, right? We want to change what schools are doing and keep them out of, you know, keep cell phones out of schools. Is there anything we can do from an advocacy standpoint, communicating with schools, that, you know, we can make this kind of happen if for all of us who are in that pact together.

 

00:35:53:15 – 00:36:25:09

Clayton Cranford

Yeah. Well, actually, here in California, they passed a law that for next school year that schools have to have a cell phone policy in place. And, and I think a lot of schools are and la to kind of leading the way that are going to go phone lists build about I hope so. I don’t know if you know, whatever state you’re in if there’s such, legislation and, and maybe at that level, reaching out to your representative there and saying, hey, we need to have something like this to kind of go at LA or California’s doing.

 

00:36:25:12 – 00:36:44:04

Clayton Cranford

And then I would say at a, at a local level at your school, whether you go to a school board meeting, if you’re belong to the, parent teacher organization, that should be discussions that you’re having with your school district and with your principal. And a lot of in some schools, principals kind of can call their own shots.

 

00:36:44:04 – 00:37:11:07

Clayton Cranford

So maybe at your school, you know, maybe that’s something that that the principal has the ability to, to do. But yeah, I think I think schools principals and superintendents, when they have parents saying this is what they what you want, if you express that, then you’ll, you’ll see you’ll probably see some change. And I just don’t think there’s any argument, that’s legitimate to say that this isn’t a good thing.

 

00:37:11:10 – 00:37:37:24

Clayton Cranford

Right? I think I think, Australia’s done it, this last school year. And they’re seeing Mark remarkable, remarkable improvements with their kids. And they’re actually passing a law, countrywide that, they have they have age verification for social media. So the minimum age will be 16 there. And I think we’re going to be seeing some, really great things happening, maybe an improvement in, in the, in their children’s mental health over the next couple of years.

 

00:37:37:24 – 00:37:54:13

Clayton Cranford

So, I hope one day we could maybe do something like that. That’s going to be, I think, maybe difficult. That’s why we need parents to to lead the charge on this. And, but I think I feel like, you know, the mental health issue is getting worse and worse and worse with our teens. And I think at some point we can’t ignore it anymore.

 

00:37:54:16 – 00:38:15:03

Clayton Cranford

And, I mean, you said, you know, your your, your littles are like five or, you know, so but by the time they get old enough to have social media, I feel like I hope that we’ve made some changes because because the trajectory for the mental health is so going in the wrong direction. I just feel like I feel like I feel like the pendulum may be swinging back.

 

00:38:15:03 – 00:38:15:21

Clayton Cranford

I hope.

 

00:38:15:23 – 00:38:35:04

Dr. Mona

I hope so too. You know, I think it is something that I think most developmental experts and people who understand children and work in schools see the difference. I love what I heard in Australia. I heard that as well in my I don’t know if you know this answer. I have a feeling you do. Are there any other school districts in the country right now that have that sort of bell to bell policy, like LAUSD?

 

00:38:35:10 – 00:38:39:16

Dr. Mona

I think certain schools may, but what about like an entire. Yeah. You know, I don’t know.

 

00:38:39:17 – 00:39:00:09

Clayton Cranford

I don’t know, but I, I go to hundreds of schools here in California and, I am seeing a variety of schools kind of addressing this in different ways, whether it’s just know during, you know, instructional or during instruction time. But, but, I think, I think we’re going to be seeing some data coming out, over the next year or so.

 

00:39:00:11 – 00:39:04:20

Clayton Cranford

That’s going to point that this is going to be the best choice. And I think more schools will get on board.

 

00:39:04:24 – 00:39:16:00

Dr. Mona

And I think New York State, I think, is doing that for the 2025, 2026 school year. I think that was where I heard Governor Hochul had said that. But I don’t know. Again, it was Bell to Bell ban, but I don’t know the details of it.

 

00:39:16:00 – 00:39:19:18

Clayton Cranford

Yeah. Yeah, you’re right, I that I do recall that as well. Yeah. New York is doing it.

 

00:39:19:21 – 00:39:43:14

Dr. Mona

Yeah. It’s very curious. You know I, I think that’s really useful that we are seeing it in certain school districts to kind of give that information and that feedback in America, obviously we know that it’s working in Australia, but in an American school system to say, hey, look, I understand American parents are worried about way more about school shootings and about, you know, abduct, you know, abductions than I think our counterparts in other countries.

 

00:39:43:14 – 00:40:01:07

Dr. Mona

But like you said, looking at the data, looking at the facts and balancing benefit and risk here, just like we do with anything else and knowing that, like, I too don’t want my children going to school in a setting of school shootings. But I also know that they’re not happening in every school. I know that what’s worse is the mental health impact.

 

00:40:01:07 – 00:40:23:08

Dr. Mona

What’s worse is that my child not being able to concentrate on the work, and when all the peers start taking out phones, it’s really hard. Even if we’ve parented a child that has understanding of cell phones and how to use them when their peers are involved, we have to respect that the developmental brain of a teenager wants to do what their peers are doing.

 

00:40:23:08 – 00:40:40:06

Dr. Mona

Like it’s just it’s common. Like I can be, I can do what I want to do, but we really need to make this, I think, something that’s across the board where we are protecting all children. Whether it’s through bell to Bell policies, whether it’s through instruction time, is that as a baby step? But I’m so grateful that we could have this conversation today.

 

00:40:40:11 – 00:41:01:01

Clayton Cranford

Yeah. Me too. And parents, put your phone away. When you’re hanging out with your kid, you’re sending the wrong message. You’re saying that phone is more important than they are. Just spend time with your kids. Let your kid go play outside. It’s safe, you know, let them explore. Let me skin, and it’s going to be okay. And, yeah, encourage your friends, your kids, friends to, you know, jump on board with this.

 

00:41:01:01 – 00:41:06:07

Clayton Cranford

And then the more parents who are doing this, the easier, that road gets.

 

00:41:06:07 – 00:41:20:03

Dr. Mona

What a great message that was going to be my last question. What is the final uplifting message? But you did that. Thank you so much. That was a wonderful, a wonderful way to end this. And where can people go to stay connected and also where can they go to purchase your book? I’ll be adding all of that to our show notes.

 

00:41:20:05 – 00:41:40:27

Clayton Cranford

Go to Cyber Safety Copco. And, we have a ton of free information there. App reviews, guides for parents. We also have a subscription where you can get, regular, emails from me. We have we do webinars once a month about important stuff. In fact, we have one coming up. I don’t know when this will be aired, but we have one every month.

 

00:41:40:27 – 00:41:59:17

Clayton Cranford

We have one coming up on, Children in Trauma and how to support your kid. We do something every month that I think parents and educators need to hear. And. Yeah, in the, in the book. So there’s ebooks on there as well. So yeah, I, I’d encourage parents to go there because this is such a big topic.

 

00:41:59:17 – 00:42:09:06

Clayton Cranford

It’s deep. There’s always something new. And it’s good to kind of just stay on top of it and get some turnkey solutions, hopefully from someone like me or you.

 

00:42:09:08 – 00:42:14:24

Dr. Mona

Thank you so much. This was such an amazing conversation. It was such a pleasure having you on today.

 

00:42:14:26 – 00:42:17:24

Clayton Cranford

Thank you, Doctor Mona.

 

00:42:17:27 – 00:42:39:09

Dr. Mona

So does anyone want to go back to a flip phone with me? My biggest takeaway? If you want phone free policies at your kid’s school, do not wait around for someone else to make it happen. Clay was clear. Reach out to your state representative if there is legislation in motion like there was in California, and show up to your school board meetings or contact your school officials, principals and superintendents.

 

00:42:39:09 – 00:42:57:12

Dr. Mona

Actually listen when enough parents speak up. And honestly, the squeaky wheel gets the grease here. Silence just reads as you’re fine with what’s going on. And my bottom line for this episode is you do not owe your kid a smartphone on a timeline set by their friend group. At the end of the day, this is a personal parenting choice.

 

00:42:57:14 – 00:43:14:09

Dr. Mona

I do hope we can have that pact because we make it so much easier. But remember that delaying is not depriving them, it is protecting them. And if you do give your kid a cell phone, consider a flip phone. Or if you do give them a phone, make some strict parameters that it’s not allowed in school and when they can have access to that cell phone.

 

00:43:14:12 – 00:43:31:10

Dr. Mona

And the biggest key here is also model healthy screen use. I know we can all do better at that. If you know a parent who’s on the fence about when to hand over that first phone, or who wants their school to go phone free but does not know where to start, send them this episode and remember to share this conversation.

 

00:43:31:10 – 00:43:40:11

Dr. Mona

Tag the PedsDocTalk podcast, PedsDocTalk, and Cyber Safety Cop when you share it. Until next time, take care of yourself and stay well.