On this episode I welcome Dr. Becky Kennedy, PhD, Clinical Psychology of @drbeckyatgoodinside and the Good Inside Podcast. Find her at goodinside.com.  We discuss the following:

• How to balance raising confident children while making them feel proud of their successes
• Examples and phrases to use in real life situations
• What mistakes parents make that can lead to low self-confidence for kids when praising them
• So much more!

00;00;09;00 – 00;00;32;12

Dr. Mona

Hello and welcome to this episode. I am so excited to welcome one of my favorite accounts on Instagram, Doctor Becky at Good Insight. Doctor Becky is a clinical psychologist with a PhD in clinical psychology who specializes in parenting anxiety and resilience. And we’re talking about why kids with early success can be at risk for low self-confidence. Thank you for joining me today.

 

00;00;32;14 – 00;00;39;05

Dr. Becky Kennedy

Thank you so much for having me excited to talk about this kind of really nuanced and interesting and important topic with you.

 

00;00;39;07 – 00;00;48;26

Dr. Mona

Yes, I think it’s so important because it’s also something that I also want to balance for my own son. But tell me a little bit more about yourself and why you started Doctor Becky. Good Inside.

 

00;00;48;28 – 00;01;17;11

Dr. Becky Kennedy

So yes, I’m a clinical psychologist, as you mentioned. I’m also a mom of three, so my kids are nine, six and almost four, and there’s really not much I find as interesting as people and kids and families and family systems and intergenerational patterns. I’m just a very curious, I guess, about why we kind of develop into the people, we develop into what we need, what we end up getting, and kind of how our bodies adapt accordingly.

 

00;01;17;15 – 00;01;42;16

Dr. Becky Kennedy

And so I guess the larger story really is that that I just have always found people to be endlessly interesting. And then about two years ago, I started working on a product in the sleep space with a friend of mine. I was talking to her about the sleep product. I had kind of MacGyver it for my daughter, who always had some sleep struggles, and she’s an entrepreneur, and she kind of said we should make that.

 

00;01;42;17 – 00;02;04;11

Dr. Becky Kennedy

We should make this into a product, and kind of felt exciting to do something a little different than my private practice. And so we started working on it. And while we were doing that, I just wrote down all of these thoughts I had about parenting, and mostly because my younger sister told me if I was ever going to release a product, I better have an Instagram account.

 

00;02;04;13 – 00;02;22;25

Dr. Becky Kennedy

And so I better start writing down some thoughts. And I ended up kind of putting the product on hold. I realized it was really more the ideas behind the product than the product itself. That was interesting. And then one day I said, wow, I have pages and pages and pages of thoughts on my computer. I guess I’ll put it out on Instagram.

 

00;02;22;28 – 00;02;36;22

Dr. Becky Kennedy

And I really didn’t have a specific goal. I wasn’t putting out this product anymore. My private practice was full. I just said, well, this could be a way to keep thinking about people and connect with other parents, other adults, and it kind of all took off from there.

 

00;02;36;26 – 00;02;53;12

Dr. Mona

Well, I’m so excited you turn those thoughts on your computer into your Instagram account because again, I’m going to be attaching your Instagram account on my show notes, but it’s just such a great way to talk about interactions with human beings and especially interactions with our children. I love the way you break it all down and just an easy to understand way.

 

00;02;53;12 – 00;03;00;13

Dr. Mona

It’s just something that resonates so well with me. So thank you. I’m happy that all happened and that you’re here today to share your expertise.

 

00;03;00;15 – 00;03;04;02

Dr. Becky Kennedy

Me too. I get to connect with amazing people like you. So yeah.

 

00;03;04;02 – 00;03;08;20

Dr. Mona

This is really fun. And. And you started your podcast recently, right? In the last few months.

 

00;03;08;27 – 00;03;33;21

Dr. Becky Kennedy

Yes. I started my podcast. I think we’re now, we’ve done 12 episodes, so super exciting. It’s totally community driven. Most of the episodes actually are real questions that real parents leave on my voicemail kind of phone number, and they leave a voicemail, and we kind of listen to them and realize there’s always themes like, oh, that reminds us of this one and this one.

 

00;03;33;21 – 00;03;36;07

Dr. Becky Kennedy

And then we just put them together in an episode.

 

00;03;36;09 – 00;03;57;17

Dr. Mona

Oh, I love it. Well, again, thank you so much for joining us. And we’re talking about that, again, very nuanced topic of how kids with Early Express can be at risk for loss of confidence. So I think all of us want our children to feel proud of success, and we want them to feel confident. But how can we balance that confidence with also, you know, not affecting their self-esteem and self confidence?

 

00;03;57;19 – 00;04;26;11

Dr. Becky Kennedy

Yeah. So I think it’s really tricky, right. And that we often are fed the idea or picked up somewhere along the way that confidence means feeling good about ourselves. And then I think related to that, we think, well, the more accomplishments I have, the better I’m going to feel about myself. Right? And so I think, at least in my practice and my experience, parents tend to worry more in terms of confidence about their kids who kind of struggle early on.

 

00;04;26;11 – 00;04;48;15

Dr. Becky Kennedy

Right? It’s the kid in the family where they watch their big sister be the spelling bee champion or the math champion, or they watch their brother, you know, thrive and, you know, whatever she’s doing. And we worry about the sibling who’s struggling. And certainly, don’t get me wrong, it’s hard to have to be that kid in the family when you have a spectacular, kind of high achieving child, next to you.

 

00;04;48;18 – 00;05;26;07

Dr. Becky Kennedy

And also, this is true. It’s really, really hard to actually form true, lasting internal self-esteem when you are constantly, in some ways overwhelmed by external validation and praise and accomplishment, because what you end up learning is, oh, all of these things outside of me being labeled so smart, being a reader, being a star soccer player, being the one in the art class who everyone says, oh, she’s the best student here.

 

00;05;26;09 – 00;05;51;10

Dr. Becky Kennedy

Those end up feeding me. They kind of feed my soul. And if we all posit like, okay, well, what’s wrong with that? And there’s nothing wrong with any of this, but when our kids are younger, they’re really learning how to get good feelings about themselves. And we can think about this in many ways, but one way I think of it is, do my kids learn that good feelings live within them and they can kind of generate them?

 

00;05;51;12 – 00;06;14;08

Dr. Becky Kennedy

Or do my kids learn that good feelings live outside of them, and I need to go get them, and I need to get them, and I need to get more of them and more of them. And kids who kind of, quote, get good feelings from their accomplishments and early successes. They often wire their body to only feel proud and confident when they’re in that moment of success.

 

00;06;14;08 – 00;06;28;15

Dr. Becky Kennedy

And in some ways, they become addicted to those moments and don’t have the space and the opportunity to really notice the good feelings about themselves that live inside, not outside them.

 

00;06;28;18 – 00;06;41;14

Dr. Mona

I think this is so important, and I think, you know, one of my questions would be, what would be an example of how we can have them focus on those emotions that come from within, rather than looking at them externally or looking for them externally.

 

00;06;41;17 – 00;07;08;26

Dr. Becky Kennedy

Right. So let’s take an example of a child who is a basketball player. Okay. So you just came let’s say it’s your daughter’s basketball game. So you’re watching your daughter’s basketball game. And she’s a really great basketball player. She’s scored a lot of points right. So a couple things. Let’s say you see her after the game and what we say and what we ask about really tells our kids what we really value and care about.

 

00;07;08;26 – 00;07;28;23

Dr. Becky Kennedy

And our kids when they’re younger, are really absorbing family values and take them in and it often becomes their own. So I’ll go over a few examples. I say to my daughter, used for the most points on your team, you are the star player on your kid team. Wow, you scored 20 points last game. You only scored 18.

 

00;07;28;23 – 00;07;50;01

Dr. Becky Kennedy

That’s a new high. Now let me be clear. We’re not messing up our kids when we say these things. If a parent listening, saying like, I guess I do that. Oh no. Pause, pause. Spiral. I hear the spiral myself. I can do that myself. We’re not talking here about one common. Here. They are a few. We’re really all just trying to rethink these general ways of interacting with our kids.

 

00;07;50;01 – 00;08;07;22

Dr. Becky Kennedy

So if you’re here listening to this podcast, you’re ahead of the game. So what are we saying to our kids when we say you score 20 points? Last time you only scored 18. What an amazing game. We’re really focusing on an outcome. We’re really focusing in some ways on a product. We’re focusing on something somewhat outside of our child.

 

00;08;07;22 – 00;08;27;22

Dr. Becky Kennedy

Meaning I think we all know, let’s say even in any sport, there are days that the ball’s just don’t fall in the net. You know, they just fall in sometimes they don’t on others. And what my child’s learning is, oh, everyone gets excited and my good games are defined and based on when I score the most points.

 

00;08;27;25 – 00;08;28;04

Dr. Mona

This.

 

00;08;28;04 – 00;08;53;17

Dr. Becky Kennedy

Actually does a couple things to a kid. Besides, in the moment, probably feeling pretty good, it also when the moment feels like a lot of pressure, right? It also teaches a child that a number which is always outside of us. If some evaluation is the thing people care more about, then a whole host of things. Let’s say my parents could have asked me that are somewhat more internal.

 

00;08;53;17 – 00;09;18;21

Dr. Becky Kennedy

So what might those things be? It might be. What do you think of your game today? Tell me about it. Which I’m just asking my child to kind of walk through the game instead of adding my evaluation. Or maybe I know my daughter, or she tends not to have great sportsmanship when her teammate misses a shot. If I end up saying to my child, you know what I noticed?

 

00;09;18;27 – 00;09;48;20

Dr. Becky Kennedy

I notice your teammate missed a shot. I actually really saw you kind of take a deep breath and say something kind to hurt. That was so awesome to notice. Now let’s not make a binary here. It’s not like I can only see those things and I can never say anything about the points my daughter scored. We’re just trying to think about this overall, and the more I focus on the things within my child’s control, the more I focus on things inside of her.

 

00;09;48;20 – 00;10;06;29

Dr. Becky Kennedy

The more I focus on a process and less on a product. I’m actually building my child’s confidence because I’m seeing a person instead of an outcome. I see a person who is working on being a good sport. I see a person who’s a good teammate. Maybe I even say, hey, I noticed you try that new move you are working on.

 

00;10;06;29 – 00;10;28;27

Dr. Becky Kennedy

That was really cool to notice. Or I saw you did a bunch of layups. And I know you’ve been working on getting, you know, closer to the basket, not taking so many shots on the outside. I’m still talking about what happened, but I’m talking about something that’s in my child’s control. Instead of focusing on some type of a 100% external accomplishment.

 

00;10;28;29 – 00;11;00;28

Dr. Mona

Oh, this is music to my ears. As you’re talking, I see myself as that basketball player growing up, you know, always with parents who, you know, we’re recording this episode so that parents can learn. And I think my parents didn’t know how to do praise. And so, yes, as I grew up, I started focusing on the number, focusing on grades, focusing on outcomes versus the effort and the you know, what I thought I put into it and it also leads to anxiety, you know, as, high achieving individuals who did sports and went through medical school and all that jazz, it makes you feel like a little bit like,

 

00;11;01;00 – 00;11;16;04

Dr. Mona

I’m always being evaluated for my outcome. And so I think it’s so important that we’re talking about this. And like you said, it can be hard to hear. And you’re kind of sometimes we can tiptoe a little bit and say, oh, but I say this, and I say that. I think, like you said, it’s just looking at the big picture on how we show up to our children.

 

00;11;16;04 – 00;11;35;19

Dr. Becky Kennedy

I think that’s right. And I think I always tell parents in my practice, you know, the change, change is hard and change is best when we do a small thing at a time. So even anybody listening to this, you know, just throw out everything you’ve ever said. But it could just be an interesting experiment to say, okay, this is interesting.

 

00;11;35;19 – 00;11;55;22

Dr. Becky Kennedy

I do have a child who often brings home a grade on a test, or I do have a child who often says to me, oh, did you see? I won my chess match again? Or did you see I built a tall tower? It could be anything. And just what would it be like? Instead of saying to my child something like, wow, you got all A’s?

 

00;11;55;22 – 00;12;13;00

Dr. Becky Kennedy

If I said, what was the trickiest part of your math test today, Tell me more about that. Or what was the most interesting thing you learned in history class? And my child says, well, do you hear I got an A on my paper. And if you end up saying back, oh, I did hear sounds like you’re proud of that.

 

00;12;13;03 – 00;12;36;05

Dr. Becky Kennedy

How did you think to write it on that topic? You could have chosen anything. Tell me how you thought to write it that way. Tell me a little bit more about that. Expressing more interest in my child as a human being, as someone who has thoughts and originality and creativity. And I’m focusing a little less on this kind of very concrete, very reductive kind of grade.

 

00;12;36;08 – 00;13;06;06

Dr. Becky Kennedy

And confidence for kids is built when kids feel like all of me as interesting I am a person is of interest. I am of value. Not only the things I produce, but the me walking around. And the way we ask questions is really what gives kids that internal confidence. So just try it. What’s right? And here’s a menu of options, almost like I love the question how did you think to how did you think to write your essay about that?

 

00;13;06;06 – 00;13;23;23

Dr. Becky Kennedy

Or for a small kid, how did you think to draw that? So interesting. How did you think to build, hospital? What? The blocks. What do you think of that idea? Instead of, oh my goodness, that’s the tallest thing you’ve ever built or oh, that’s so beautiful or I’m so proud of you for that. Great.

 

00;13;23;25 – 00;13;49;09

Dr. Mona

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00;13;49;11 – 00;14;12;01

Dr. Mona

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00;14;12;05 – 00;14;19;05

Dr. Mona

Is there things that we can approach and say, like, you know, in terms of how we would approach the effort they put into building something? Same concept.

 

00;14;19;08 – 00;14;39;29

Dr. Becky Kennedy

Yeah, I would say the language of noticing is a great way where you’re basically saying to your child, I am paying attention, like I see you as a real important human being, yet I’m not adding my own value or my own judgment. So you can notice so many things. I notice you’re using a lot of red blocks now.

 

00;14;40;02 – 00;14;58;17

Dr. Becky Kennedy

You’re eventually tell me more. Someone listening might be saying, my kid doesn’t even speak right, but I’m also a big fan of asking questions to kids. They don’t answer because yeah, that’s what leads to kids asking themselves questions. The things we say become how our kids talk to themselves. So we say to them, like, I see you’re using all red blocks.

 

00;14;58;17 – 00;15;20;07

Dr. Becky Kennedy

Tell me more. That leads to a child a year later thinking to themselves something like, I’m using red blocks. Like what more could I do? I wonder what other ideas I have, right? They’re now talking that way to themselves so you can notice what they’re doing. You can notice how hard they’re working. That block tower fell down and you’re trying again.

 

00;15;20;07 – 00;15;38;09

Dr. Becky Kennedy

I really notice that. Right? Or I notice how hard you’re working. I’ve never seen you use yellow and red and blue in the same drawing. Right. So I think a lot of these things feel incomplete to parents. Like, I know in my practice, parent would say, okay, but then what? But then what do I do to really build their confidence?

 

00;15;38;09 – 00;16;00;02

Dr. Becky Kennedy

And we laugh and I’ll say, no, that’s like, that’s the thing. You just did it. That is it. We want to leave an opening for our kid, right? That’s really what allows them to keep going, to keep creating, to build something. Again, we don’t want to take that away from our kids by kind of adding some final judgment.

 

00;16;00;05 – 00;16;18;08

Dr. Becky Kennedy

You know, I think I said this somewhere else, but I’ll say here because I think it’s really powerful that when we say things to our kids like, good job or this is amazing, right? I always think about if I redecorated my apartment and I had a friend come in and she just said, this is amazing, great job, right?

 

00;16;18;10 – 00;16;29;24

Dr. Becky Kennedy

I don’t know what I’d say back. I’d probably say thank you, right. But if I had a friend who came in and said, how did you think to paint your walls blue in your bathroom, I would have a whole story to tell her.

 

00;16;29;24 – 00;16;30;19

Dr. Mona

Yeah.

 

00;16;30;21 – 00;16;42;01

Dr. Becky Kennedy

Even if she never said, good job. That’s amazing. I feel so much better about myself having been asked the question then, having been a recipient of her even positive judgment.

 

00;16;42;08 – 00;16;58;05

Dr. Mona

I love when you use examples, relating to adults too, because I feel like when you teach parenting stuff, it’s so useful because how would it make you feel is totally valid, right? I mean, telling people or telling a friend about how they feel about something they did versus the outcome, I would feel great too, and so would our children.

 

00;16;58;05 – 00;17;00;20

Dr. Mona

So I love that example so much.

 

00;17;00;23 – 00;17;20;29

Dr. Becky Kennedy

Exactly. And going back to kind of this initial nuance of like, so there are these kids who, when younger, have a ton of external accomplishments, right? I don’t and I think we think these are the kids we don’t have to worry about. Right. And I know this happens in my family. For example, my first of three, he was a very early reader.

 

00;17;21;01 – 00;17;40;06

Dr. Becky Kennedy

Right. And I’ll be totally honest, I feel like I had very little do it, that I wasn’t like teaching him letters. I wasn’t putting him in reading classes. It just is something he picked up naturally. Right. And this actually, I know this sounds funny, but I wouldn’t go so far to say it worries me. But one of the things I know in adulthood is that life is hard, right?

 

00;17;40;08 – 00;17;59;18

Dr. Becky Kennedy

Life is hard for every adult I know there are seasons where it’s really hard. There’s things that happen where they don’t go the way you want, where you have to recover, where you have to work harder and longer than you wanted to. And sometimes the kids who are the least prepared for that are the kids who have a ton of early success.

 

00;17;59;20 – 00;18;19;03

Dr. Becky Kennedy

And then if those kids have layered on to them all the praise and focus of, have you seen my son? He’s such an early reader. Oh, you’re so smart. You’re such a smart. Now, this kid is 18 or 20 8 or 38 and struggling with something which inevitably he will, because everyone does. And not only is it hard, but there’s a true identity crisis.

 

00;18;19;07 – 00;18;38;20

Dr. Becky Kennedy

It’s almost like I’m not supposed to be this person. I’m the person who gets everything done easily, and so are those kids. You have to work extra hard to see the person under the success that is so important for their long term resources and kind of even mental stability.

 

00;18;38;24 – 00;19;01;16

Dr. Mona

Oh, I couldn’t agree more. And I think you’re pointing out things that I think are mistakes that maybe parents don’t know that they’re doing. Like you know, like when you’re talking about that and you’re saying the example, are there any other mistakes, big or small, maybe even something that parents know they’re doing or don’t know they’re doing, like they’re just doing it subconsciously or whatever, that can lead to low self-confidence for our children.

 

00;19;01;18 – 00;19;12;08

Dr. Becky Kennedy

Yeah, I guess the one and I, and I know you well enough that I think neither of us would really even use this word mistake to me, always is. Like, it’s kind of like this word that I always react to because.

 

00;19;12;11 – 00;19;12;25

Dr. Mona

I feel like it’s.

 

00;19;12;25 – 00;19;28;20

Dr. Becky Kennedy

Not even a real thing. Like, I truly, yeah, all of us are doing the best we can with the information we have available at the time and the resources we have. And so it’s always easy to look back, be like, oh, that was a mistake. But if we’re always doing the best we can, it’s just I guess it’s something we’ve learned from.

 

00;19;28;20 – 00;19;53;00

Dr. Becky Kennedy

Right? So where do I think parents can expand and learn from? I think also we want to be really mindful of not linking our kids accomplishments to our own feelings. So I think it’s easy to say, oh, this makes me so happy or makes me so happy when you’re doing this or that. And yet also, that’s a time where we’re seeing our child for their impact on us, not in their own right.

 

00;19;53;03 – 00;20;16;10

Dr. Becky Kennedy

So that’s another thing. I often kind of encourage parents to steer clear from that. If you have a child who you know, whatever it is, they have a million goals in their soccer game or they’re writing and kind of reading and doing math or whatever, academically, they are in a really superstar way. Enjoy that for sure, but enjoy that separately from your child, right?

 

00;20;16;10 – 00;20;41;09

Dr. Becky Kennedy

We don’t want to make our kids feel like their accomplishments are there to kind of make us happy. This doesn’t mean we can’t join in their excitement, but I would make sure the excitement is our kids. So here’s an example. I guess of the difference because it can feel confusing that let’s say a child comes to us after their soccer game and they have just kind of had a really great game, or they scored a lot of goals.

 

00;20;41;11 – 00;21;00;25

Dr. Becky Kennedy

Right? I see the difference is not saying to our kids, oh, you had an amazing game. I’m so glad I was here to see it right? Versus saying, oh, it’s so fun to watch you play, right? Or if a child says to us, did you see I scored so many goals? Of course we have to be natural. I would imagine saying, I did see that.

 

00;21;00;25 – 00;21;23;27

Dr. Becky Kennedy

That seems to make you feel really good. Tell me more about it. Right. And then again, it’s really focused on my kid instead of my child coming over to me by saying, you scored three goals and essentially then maybe talking to the other parents or calling someone on my own in the car, bragging about my kids three goals, and then my child in some ways feels not seen because the only thing that really matters was this accomplishment.

 

00;21;23;29 – 00;21;29;09

Dr. Mona

Yeah. And it leads to, people pleasing tendencies. As we get older.

 

00;21;29;12 – 00;21;35;23

Dr. Becky Kennedy

It does to people pleaser tendencies. And then. Right, we kind of lose who we are for what we did.

 

00;21;35;25 – 00;21;47;02

Dr. Mona

Yeah. Oh, doctor Becky, I love talking about this stuff with you. You know, you’ve already given us so many amazing pearls and amazing ways to approach this. What would be your final message for everyone listening today?

 

00;21;47;04 – 00;22;21;13

Dr. Becky Kennedy

So my final message for anyone listening is if you’re a parent who’s listening to a parenting related podcast, you’re amazing because you’re saying, I’m willing to be reflective, to think about things I’m doing and consider new ideas and experiment with new behaviors and repair it myself and change intergenerational patterns. So more than any of the ideas and strategies in this podcast, I would actually tell yourself, just to take a deep breath, place your hand on your heart and tell yourself, I’m pretty amazing for doing all of those things.

 

00;22;21;15 – 00;22;39;26

Dr. Becky Kennedy

And then, almost just as a bonus, if there’s one thing from here that resonated, take it. If there’s two, like hold it, you can always re listen to the podcast, take one and maybe say to yourself, I am going to just notice how my child experiences their own accomplishments. Maybe I’m not going to add anything, I’m just going to notice.

 

00;22;39;26 – 00;23;01;10

Dr. Becky Kennedy

Or oh, I do get really excited about my child’s accomplishments. I think it’s because I felt I wasn’t that accomplished as a kid. And writers reflect on that or ask more questions such as, how did you think to do that? Or tell me more about that? Or what did you really like about that? Instead of starting with my own kind of judgment of the situation.

 

00;23;01;10 – 00;23;22;28

Dr. Becky Kennedy

But take one thing. Remind yourself you’re doing a great job. It’s never too late to make changes and give yourself kind of a big hug. A pat on the back. This parenting thing is really, really hard, and I’m so glad you’re kind of in this community with me and Moana learning and reflecting and trying new things.

 

00;23;23;01 – 00;23;30;07

Dr. Mona

Here, here. I love that final message. You are simply amazing. Tell us again where everyone can find you.

 

00;23;30;09 – 00;23;55;02

Dr. Becky Kennedy

So a couple ways, my Instagram account is Doctor Becky echoed inside all together. And then I’m super excited about my website. That kind of holds everything else so good. Inside.com is the hub for all things good inside, including learning that good inside. A com can be found there, which is all my workshops and courses. My podcast is good inside Doctor Becky.

 

00;23;55;02 – 00;24;15;23

Dr. Becky Kennedy

You can find it on any podcast player or you can find it echoed inside.com. I have a newsletter that you can sign up for. I have to stop calling it a newsletter. It’s really not a newsletter, it’s just weekly strategies and scripts delivered here. Email. So right to your inbox you can get a ton of easy to implement ideas and you can find all of that echo inside.com.

 

00;24;15;25 – 00;24;33;18

Dr. Mona

Thank you. And I will be adding all of this to my show notes for everyone. Please again follow her at Doctor Becky. A good insight like she mentioned, so many great videos, iGTV. I mean the resources never end and her workshops and everything else she provides, as you can tell already are phenomenal. So thanks again for joining us today.

 

00;24;33;18 – 00;24;35;03

Dr. Becky Kennedy

Thank you so much for having me.

 

00;24;35;09 – 00;24;51;00

Dr. Mona

Thank you for tuning in for this week’s episode. As always, please leave a review. Share this episode with a friend. Share it on your social media. Make sure to follow me at PedsDocTalk on Instagram and subscribe to my YouTube channel. PedsDocTalk TV. We’ll talk to you soon.