On this episode I welcome back Katherine Sellery of The Conscious Parenting Revolution. Katherine is a 3x TEDx speaker, has taught thousands of parents in a Conscious Parenting Revolution for resilient, considerate, centered and empowered kids who know their inner voice and honor it.

If you missed it, be sure to check out my previous chat with Katherine, episode 45: How to Be a More Conscious Parent and Why it’s Important for our Children.

In today’s episode we discuss the following:

• Why it’s okay to raise kids who are self-centered
• What being self-centered can teach our children
• How we can balance this with thinking of others

For more information, visit www.katherinesellery.com and check out her Free eBook, 7 Strategies To Keep Your Relationship With Your Kids From Hitting The Boiling Point. 

00;00;08;25 – 00;00;32;05

Dr. Mona

Thank you, everyone for joining me on this episode. I am so excited to welcome back Katherine Sellery. She was with me on episode 45, how to Be a more Conscious Parent. She is a three times term speaker who has taught thousands of parents in a conscious parenting revolution to raise resilient, considerate, centered, and empowered kids who know their inner voice and how to honor it.

 

00;00;32;12 – 00;00;34;16

Dr. Mona

Thank you so much for joining me, Katherine.

 

00;00;34;19 – 00;00;36;29

Katherine Sellery

I am so excited to be here again. Thank you.

 

00;00;37;00 – 00;00;44;12

Dr. Mona

I’m so excited to have you back. And if you can just introduce yourself again, for anyone who’s not familiar when you were on the podcast already.

 

00;00;44;15 – 00;01;19;23

Katherine Sellery

Yeah. Thank you. So, you know, as you mentioned, I’ve got three Ted talks and the journey for me to become a conscious parent and overcome transgenerational trauma is really, you know, all about what these Ted talks are. And the conscious parenting revolution is giving everybody the support they need to overcome. If they had things from their own childhood that were ways in which they were parented, that they may end up actually duplicating, that they wish they didn’t, but they don’t know how not to correct.

 

00;01;19;26 – 00;01;38;26

Katherine Sellery

Yeah, we just tend to fall back on what happened to us rather than forge a new approach to parenting, because that requires, you know, some training, some real exploration in the world that we don’t know. And getting into, well, how do I even implement something that is a more conscious approach to parenting?

 

00;01;38;29 – 00;01;58;27

Dr. Mona

And episode 45 dived into that exact comment that she just said how to be a more conscious parent and understand all of those things that may have created who we are. And I completely resonate with that too. It’s so important. We really cannot clearly parent our child if we don’t understand the biases and insecurities and how we were parented.

 

00;01;58;29 – 00;02;14;02

Dr. Mona

And there’s so many things that may have worked in our childhood, but there also are things that didn’t. And it’s okay to say that, right? Like, I think sometimes we think that, oh, well, my parents, you know, they did a great job that if I say x, y, and Z, you could have had great parents. But no one is perfect.

 

00;02;14;02 – 00;02;24;26

Dr. Mona

And things change how we view parenting. The things that you may want to do as a parent will change. And I think it’s so important that people are open to that change as parents as they navigate this whole journey.

 

00;02;24;28 – 00;02;52;20

Katherine Sellery

Absolutely. And that’s the thing is that, you know, I think actually the need to protect, and not have any like, desire to make our own parents feel like badly about, you know, when it came down, can sometimes get in the way of us recognizing that, you know. Well, actually, now, I do think there are some things here for me to like, do parenting 2.0 and.

 

00;02;52;22 – 00;03;00;07

Katherine Sellery

You know, move forward not from any place of blame, but from a yeah, maybe there’s better technology now. Maybe there’s more information.

 

00;03;00;09 – 00;03;20;06

Dr. Mona

Exactly. And I’m so excited about this topic that we’re talking today about is why it’s okay to raise kids who are self-centered. And I’m very curious of what your you know, what your thoughts are on this. Because I think there is a balance right now with parents wanting to create that balance of self confidence, not, you know, self being self-centered, self-confident.

 

00;03;20;09 – 00;03;36;08

Dr. Mona

But why? It’s a good thing. When is it too much? All of those questions that parents have, I think we’re all trying to find that middle ground approach on raising confident children, but also not to confidence. I guess we’ll go into that. So why is it okay to raise kids who are self-centered, and what does that mean to you?

 

00;03;36;15 – 00;04;01;20

Katherine Sellery

Yeah, perfect. So when I talk about children that are centered in themselves, it means that they know who they are and they actually are totally connected to their own inner sense of self. And that is the safest, best place for our children to be. That doesn’t mean that they’re inconsiderate of others. It means that they know who they are.

 

00;04;01;22 – 00;04;30;19

Katherine Sellery

And again, you know, generally children are raised to be really thinking about that behavior you have is disruptive and you shouldn’t do it. Or the way that you’re making me feel is uncomfortable. And therefore you need to change. You know, it’s always about the other in a very codependent way of it’s all about how other people feel. And I should be adapting myself so that other people don’t feel uncomfortable.

 

00;04;30;21 – 00;05;06;17

Katherine Sellery

That can get in the way of people telling the truth, and a child to stay connected to their inner voice and be able to stay true to themselves is my concern more than how other people feel when they’re exposed to that? Because most of the time it’s about what other people feel when they’re exposed to it. And I mean, we’re talking about a really incredibly nuanced conversation because self and centered in self is different than selfish, which is interested in just I want what I want, I want, I want, I want my me, me me, me me.

 

00;05;06;19 – 00;05;29;12

Katherine Sellery

And that’s the selfish thing, which is like, you know, it’s great that you have your wants and desires and let’s be aware of what other people are experiencing in the room, too. That’s really healthy balance between being considerate of self and considerate of others. What I’m talking about is children growing up where they’ve been acknowledged for their traits and characteristics in the experience that other people have.

 

00;05;29;12 – 00;05;57;27

Katherine Sellery

Of those not praised. Because we know the downfall of praise is if you want to lower your child self esteem, praise them. So we’re not talking about going into the world of praise. We’re talking about staying firmly rooted in acknowledging the ways in which we experience our children. So that we can speak about it, and they can have a firm sense of building their actualized sense of self, as opposed to that idealized sense of self.

 

00;05;57;29 – 00;06;20;16

Katherine Sellery

Praise goes to the idealized acknowledgment, goes to the actual sense of self, which if we give a child a deep rooting in that, then they really do stay centered in knowing who they are and what their sense of self is builds, whereas with praise it diminishes.

 

00;06;20;18 – 00;06;40;15

Dr. Mona

And what can this being self-centered and I love that you’re clarifying the selfish versus self-centered, because when people hear self-centered, it’s often taken as, oh, that’s a selfish thing. But you’re right, it’s completely different. What can being self-centered teach our kids? You mentioned a few things, but what else can we do for our child when they go out into the world and they interact with other people?

 

00;06;40;17 – 00;06;43;07

Dr. Mona

How can it affect them, their self-esteem and so on?

 

00;06;43;09 – 00;07;06;16

Katherine Sellery

Yeah. So if you have the child that isn’t really clear about their own sense of self, you know, that’s to the extreme where, you know, you have kids growing up that you ask them, you know, what’s your favorite ice cream? What’s your favorite color? You know what makes your heart sing? They have no idea. But they know what you want it to be.

 

00;07;06;19 – 00;07;36;02

Katherine Sellery

Yeah. And so, you know, they’re kind of stumped with that. And the idea of raising children that are centered in their own sense of self is that they actually know what lights them up. They actually know what, you know, elevates their spirit, which makes their heart sing. They’re so connected to their inner sense of things that they are drawn by that, to the things that are going to create the greatest happiness for them, because it’s a natural extension of their interests.

 

00;07;36;04 – 00;08;01;24

Katherine Sellery

It’s sort of like taking a child who loves, who loves painting and who seems to have a real knack for that. And maybe they you can see that, you know, this is a kid that’s going to be perfect as an architect or a designer or, you know, something in that realm, and you convince them what they really need to be as a chemist.

 

00;08;01;27 – 00;08;15;14

Katherine Sellery

Because it’s, I don’t know, safer in your view. I mean, it’s going to keep them and we guide them not based on being in tune with what lights them up, but based on some projection that we think about what’s right for that.

 

00;08;15;16 – 00;08;31;01

Dr. Mona

I completely agree with that. And I think when we talked last time on episode 45, How to be a more Conscious Parent, we kind of talked about this. But yes, it’s so important to talk about that, you know, what makes you happy? And I, you know, now my son is a little bit older now than when we talked last time.

 

00;08;31;01 – 00;08;49;16

Dr. Mona

Obviously, he’s 21 month, almost last time we talked he was still like under a year. But as he blossomed, you know I start to see what makes his heart happy, like you said. And I said, well, you know, we talk about emotions already. We talk about what makes him scared and excited and happy. And it’s so beautiful to see, you know, and foster that.

 

00;08;49;16 – 00;08;56;12

Dr. Mona

And it’s so sometimes it’s parents. It’s really hard to not put on what we want our children to do or what we expect them to.

 

00;08;56;12 – 00;08;57;14

Katherine Sellery

Do, or what we.

 

00;08;57;14 – 00;09;14;20

Dr. Mona

Maybe wanted to do as kids, which we talked about in the Conscious parenting episode. And it’s really important to kind of separate that because then when you start to do that, obviously, then you can start to really allow your child not to listen to their own wants and not become self centered. Right? They start to think about you and they start to think about, well, what does mommy want?

 

00;09;14;21 – 00;09;16;04

Dr. Mona

What is mommy going to say? Right?

 

00;09;16;11 – 00;09;55;28

Katherine Sellery

Absolutely. And I think it’s such a strong, psychological differential between, you know, providing psychological safety, we know, is like the number one ingredient to exploration, risk taking. You know, when I feel safe that I’m loved, warts and all, and I can fail, and nobody’s going to be critical of me, then I can afford to fail. And if I live in an ecosystem that’s been created where perfection and being the best at something is the only thing that’s valued, then I won’t risk anything that I don’t already feel like I’m going to succeed in, and I just limit myself in my possibilities.

 

00;09;56;01 – 00;10;35;05

Katherine Sellery

So yeah, let’s create those ecosystems where children have the capacity to explore because they know that it’s okay to fail. It’s part of our family ecosystem. We encourage trying things that are not necessarily, you know, knowns. And the only way I can actually go out and practice and do that and fail in class in front of other people is if I’m not so concerned about what other people think about me when I’m centered within myself and I value risk taking, then I care about just honoring that sense of self that really enjoys exploration, and a child that has a strong sense of self can do that.

 

00;10;35;08 – 00;11;03;26

Katherine Sellery

If their sense of self is not so strong and they’re more concerned with, you know, this idea of it’s other people’s approval that makes me feel good about me, then I don’t necessarily want to risk being seen as stupid or incompetent, because other people may then think of me that way. Well, I’m concerned so much about that. I’m not going to be prepared to risk going out and putting myself on the spot.

 

00;11;03;28 – 00;11;24;21

Katherine Sellery

But if I recognize, you know, hey, I love the fact that I can fail. And I don’t know about you, but the people that I always noticed that actually had the greatest sense of self or self esteem were the ones who could go out and put themselves on the spot and fail in front of others because they could risk not being perfect.

 

00;11;24;23 – 00;11;42;00

Dr. Mona

Correct. And the humility and also the understanding that with that comes learning and with that comes more success. Yeah. You know, once you get there, I mean, once you get to that level of understanding, you know, the sky’s the limit in terms of understanding that you’re not always going to succeed at everything that you do. But that doesn’t mean that you’re a failure.

 

00;11;42;00 – 00;11;59;17

Dr. Mona

It means that not you can’t succeed at everything, but you can learn well, what can I do different next time and what can I do? Like this way to change this. And, like we talk about not the end result, but the work ethic that you put into it, how would you balance making sure that self-centered, you know, that self-worth doesn’t become selfish?

 

00;11;59;17 – 00;12;15;28

Dr. Mona

I’m talking more like, you know, again, they’re completely different. But in a way like that, you understand that I have my decisions and I’m valuable and I’m amazing and important. But how do you balance that with others needs and what other people want and sharing and all of these things that, you know, we want our children to be a part of a community.

 

00;12;16;04 – 00;12;26;14

Dr. Mona

Do you worry about that balance or where can a parent kind of say, this is one maybe we need to teach them in a certain way about, you know, the importance of valuing yourself but also valuing others?

 

00;12;26;17 – 00;12;50;17

Katherine Sellery

Yeah. So I think that, you know, when you have the ecosystem that’s about, you know, we don’t do things out of, needing to feel like I make you feel better or mommy is up. You know, whenever I hear moms or dads talk to their kids like, you made me so mad. Yeah. You know, that’s just, like, such a dangerous place to come from, because then it’s confusing to a child.

 

00;12;50;19 – 00;13;11;11

Katherine Sellery

It’s confusing to adults that I had the power to make you feel good. Bad, right? Wrong. It’s like, wow, how can I be responsible for your feelings? So we have to really just stay, you know, in this big conversation about other people don’t make us feel certain things. That opens up a door for, well, other people do have feelings that may arise.

 

00;13;11;11 – 00;13;27;03

Katherine Sellery

And how do they then talk about the feelings that arise when they experience an event or a circumstance? And that’s, you know, that’s part of this conversation, actually, is how do we language that whole world of the feelings that come up for me without blaming other people for those feelings?

 

00;13;27;06 – 00;13;46;20

Dr. Mona

And like you said, this is so it sounds so much easier said than done. I mean, I see it so much in like like we talk about, right? Like the parenting cycles of maybe that was done to you. And so then you just naturally do it. And I see that happen so much. And then it’s really takes a lot for us as adults and parents to say, no, I’m going to be more conscious.

 

00;13;46;20 – 00;14;02;27

Dr. Mona

Like you say, understand why this may not be the best way to speak to my child or, you know, wanting to break that cycle. Do you find that parents really struggle with that? Like, how can we help parents understand and maybe treat those changes so that they can.

 

00;14;02;27 – 00;14;24;16

Katherine Sellery

Break that cycle? Yeah, yeah, it’s a human. It’s a human predicament that we have to practice differentiating between the catalyst rather than making it the cause of how I feel. So recognizing that you know yeah this event catalyzed something within me and these feelings arose. And therefore I try to blame the catalyst and make it the cause.

 

00;14;24;16 – 00;14;53;13

Katherine Sellery

And that determines the language that I use in communicating with the catalyst. But the truth of the matter is, is that that’s not really the cause. And the more that we as adults and parents speak to our children around this subject, it’s so misunderstood. I mean, everybody blames everybody for their feelings. It’s so prevalent. So because of that, they’re going to be surrounded by kids who get mad about something and they start to say, well, it’s your fault.

 

00;14;53;13 – 00;15;12;27

Katherine Sellery

You made me feel that way. And therefore I’m justified in, I don’t know, eliminating from you, from my friend group or isolating you, in our conversations and not including you or, you know, some of the other things that kids do. I mean, a lot of it is social isolation. That’s how they punish people for making them feel insecure, right?

 

00;15;12;27 – 00;15;35;25

Katherine Sellery

Or making them feel challenged or making them feel. And none of that is true. They didn’t make them feel that way. Those feelings came up. It catalyzed that within them. And a healthier child with a, you know, a better sense of self would recognize, well, you know, something’s arising in me. And, you know, this circumstance has brought this to the surface.

 

00;15;35;25 – 00;15;57;02

Katherine Sellery

I really need to be with that something inside of me. And I wonder what that’s about and have it become an inner dialog conversation rather than it’s about the catalyst, and I need to punish them for causing me to feel this way. And I’m going to do it by, you know, bad mouthing them, or I’m going to do it by isolating them, or I’m going to do it by one of these other things that making sense.

 

00;15;57;09 – 00;16;15;22

Dr. Mona

Yeah, absolutely. It does. And, I think this is so important to remember as we navigate this parenting. And again, I love speaking to you about this because I also it resonates with me too, as I look at the cycle of parenting being a more conscious parent. You know, every time I talk to you, I’ve had so much more growth as a parent myself.

 

00;16;15;22 – 00;16;29;24

Dr. Mona

Right. I mean, like I said last time I talked to you, my son was a year, and now he’s 20 months. And then I’ll have you on again, and we’re going to, you know, it’s nice to hear. It’s nice to hear. You know, obviously we have very similar parenting style and that I am also trying to be that more conscious parent.

 

00;16;29;26 – 00;16;50;19

Dr. Mona

And I do believe in that power of raising a kid who is centered and self centered and, empowered. Right. And that really goes down to so much of that infant and toddler years I always talk about, you know, because that goes down to how we view parenting, right? Like a lot of my parents that come into my office, they have a five year old now has that personality.

 

00;16;50;24 – 00;17;10;22

Dr. Mona

But maybe in the toddler years and, you know, earlier they weren’t allowing that sort of autonomy. They weren’t allowing that empowerment piece because they felt like they had to do it all. And of course, our young infants and our young toddlers need our help with some things. But my feeling and my philosophy is it’s really important to kind of balance, even from a young age.

 

00;17;10;26 – 00;17;31;08

Dr. Mona

What is my infant or toddler capable of doing on their own, and how can I empower them with my help developmentally appropriate, right, so that you create that mindset that I want to raise this child who has this resiliency, you know, that centeredness that we’re talking about, that empowerment to just really do and feel like they have a voice and that they know what they’re capable of.

 

00;17;31;08 – 00;17;49;18

Dr. Mona

And I it’s so fascinating seeing that mentality of a parent that I’m trying to do, seeing that in Ryan, my son. Right. Like seeing that actually work and like what you’re saying like that actually like happen. And you see how proud he is of himself. Not that he made me proud because we really try to not do that.

 

00;17;49;21 – 00;18;06;08

Dr. Mona

But how he is proud of himself when he accomplishes something, how he feels it in his own self to help. Not because it makes me feel good, but he likes it. Like he enjoys being a part of something and it’s because he wants to do it and we don’t put any pressure. We literally allow him to just foster his interest.

 

00;18;06;14 – 00;18;22;14

Dr. Mona

He loves unicorns. He loves Legos. He doesn’t matter what he loves. We just really want him to feel that. What you said earlier, what makes your heart happy. And I see that phrase so much to him. And it’s such a simple it’s such a simple phrase to say to kids, like, what made you so happy and what makes your heart happy?

 

00;18;22;14 – 00;18;36;27

Dr. Mona

Like. And then he goes, and then he goes, mom. And I’m like, oh, that made me happy, thank you. But I wouldn’t say that. But it’s so sweet to hear what makes them happy. And it’s so you can do that in those toddler ages, you know, like, as they start to get their personality and that those words out.

 

00;18;37;03 – 00;18;45;03

Dr. Mona

It’s so great to teach them that. And I love speaking to you about this. What would be your final message for everyone listening in terms of, you know, what we talked about?

 

00;18;45;05 – 00;18;50;25

Katherine Sellery

Well, what I liked just hearing you say is that you can see how proud he is of himself.

 

00;18;50;29 – 00;18;51;13

Dr. Mona

 

00;18;51;17 – 00;19;12;21

Katherine Sellery

And you know, the word proud is often bantered around in parenting. And often parents will say, oh, I’m so proud of you. And to me that’s like, total never say that to your child because it becomes so confusing. Like it’s almost like, okay, well, you’re proud of me if I do it this way, but then what happens if I do it that way?

 

00;19;12;22 – 00;19;34;18

Katherine Sellery

Are you still proud of me? I mean, you know, it gets again. The child confused about why are they doing what they do. They’re proud of themselves for having accomplished something. They’re proud of themselves for having developed the skills they’re probably sells for. Like this. Next leap in mastery, you know, whether it’s tying their shoes or or feeding themselves or whatever that next leap in mastery is.

 

00;19;34;21 – 00;20;00;06

Katherine Sellery

So saying to them, oh, I can see it looks like you’re so proud of yourself. Yeah, right. That reframe around that and recognizing that the word proud can be used as a, you know, a dangerous word. If it’s about me being proud of you, you may also feel a sense of pride. And that’s present there as well.

 

00;20;00;06 – 00;20;23;17

Katherine Sellery

And you could say, you know, I agree with you. I think you could be proud of yourself, too. You know, that actually is something that I agree with. That’s incredible. So it just it’s that distinction again, that’s so central to what I’m going to call self esteem. And this whole concept of a child being centered in themselves means that they have to actually know who they are.

 

00;20;23;20 – 00;20;48;09

Katherine Sellery

And you know what their favorite ice cream flavor is or what color is. And you know, what are the things that they identify as being something that they really enjoy, appreciate lights them up. And a lot of kids who are highly autonomous may have a better sense of that. And those kids that we call the people pleasers, the ones who care so much about pleasing others, they may find it harder.

 

00;20;48;12 – 00;21;10;26

Katherine Sellery

And so with the ones that are more on the autonomous zone, we look at those kids and we know that we need to work more with them around consideration of others and other people’s needs, and with those who are more on the sort of like the belonging or caring too much about what other people think of them, we need to support them to recognize that they they need to be pleasing themselves too.

 

00;21;10;29 – 00;21;17;21

Katherine Sellery

They need to be able to speak for themselves too, and not just be so focused on what other people think about them.

 

00;21;17;23 – 00;21;27;07

Dr. Mona

Oh, this is so great. And Katherine, where can everyone find you if they want? I know, obviously, that you do the Conscious Parenting Revolution, your website. I would love to put that on our show notes today.

 

00;21;27;10 – 00;21;53;28

Katherine Sellery

Yeah, that would be great. I mean, they can go to Katherine celery.com and they can find everything on the conscious parenting revolution there. And I’ve got a free e-book and I’ve got webinars. I have generally every now and then I’ve got actual and not knowing exactly when this is going to publish. But there’s a parenting reboot, a five day reboot that I do a occasionally where people can join that, and it’s just an hour a day for five days.

 

00;21;54;04 – 00;21;58;29

Katherine Sellery

There are so many different ways to get the resources that they may need.

 

00;21;59;01 – 00;22;14;03

Dr. Mona

Thank you so much. And I’m going to be putting that on the show notes so that everyone can visit. And Katherine was on my podcast again as a reminder. Episode 45 how to Be a more Conscious Parent. You definitely should listen to that one if you have not already, because it ties into what we were talking about today.

 

00;22;14;05 – 00;22;27;15

Dr. Mona

And then she will be on the podcast in the early winter, late fall, we’re going to be talking about, why your child doesn’t listen to you and how to help them listen to you. So definitely join us for that one. Thank you again for joining me today. Katherine.

 

00;22;27;22 – 00;22;29;22

Katherine Sellery

Thank you so much. It is great to be here about it.

 

00;22;29;23 – 00;22;45;14

Dr. Mona

Thank you for tuning in for this week’s episode. As always, please leave a review, share this episode with a friend, share it on your social media. Make sure to follow me at PedsDocTalk on Instagram and subscribe to my YouTube channel, PedsDocTalk TV. We’ll talk to you soon.