If you’ve ever wondered why traditional discipline like timeouts, threats, punishments feel off or doesn’t actually work, this episode will change the way you see toddler behavior.

I’m joined by Devon Kuntzman, toddler expert and founder of Transforming Toddlerhood, to talk about how we can move from managing our kids’ behavior to teaching through it. We unpack why toddlers act out, how to handle power struggles without punishment, and how parents can stay calm (and human) in those messy moments. Devon shares her framework for effective discipline, the difference between natural and arbitrary consequences, and the long game of raising emotionally intelligent kids.

We discuss:

• Why toddlerhood isn’t “terrible”—it’s transformational and  what’s really happening in the toddler brain

• Why punishment feels effective short-term but harms long-term growth

• The 3 parts of effective discipline: connection, limits, and teaching skills

• How to pause before reacting when you’re triggered and the power of noticing positive behavior

• How to reframe “bad” behavior as communication

• The one question that can change how you discipline

To connect with Devon Kuntzman check out all her resources at ⁠https://www.transformingtoddlerhood.com/⁠.  Follow her on Instagram at @transformingtoddlerhood. And purchase her brand new book “Transforming Toddlerhood” available now: ⁠https://urlgeni.us/amzn/TTBook⁠

We’d like to know who is listening! Please fill out our ⁠Listener Survey⁠ to help us improve the show and learn about you!

00:00 – The mindset shift: Teach, don’t punish
01:10 – Welcome & introduction to Devon Kuntzman
02:30 – Why toddlerhood isn’t terrible—it’s teachable
05:00 – Understanding your toddler’s brain and behavior
07:40 – Behavior as communication: decoding what kids are telling us
09:00 – From control to connection: the real purpose of discipline
10:45 – The recipe for effective discipline (connection, limits, teaching)
13:20 – Natural vs. logical vs. arbitrary consequences
17:00 – Why quick fixes don’t work and the long game of discipline does
25:30 – How to pause, stay grounded, and model emotional regulation
29:15 – Dr. Mona’s “bubble hack” and real-life calm-down strategies
31:30 – Positive reinforcement: noticing the behavior you want to see
35:00 – The ultimate reframe: what skill does my child need to learn?
37:00 – You’re human, your child’s human—progress over perfection
38:00 – Closing reflections and where to find Devon’s book

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00;00;00;00 – 00;00;21;10

Devon Kuntzman

I have so many reframes. I love talking about reframes. I think that’s the coaching. Me. The what? Yeah. Let’s say the number one is instead of saying what punishment or what consequence does my child need for this behavior? I like the flip that script and say, what skills does my child need to learn to be successful here?

 

00;00;21;12 – 00;00;45;01

Devon Kuntzman

Because when we shift that language now we’re curious. We go from like, yeah, feeling like this. We have to try to get them back under control too. Okay. I’m curious, what do they need? How do I help? And then that’s going to set you up for a success and completely change, how you how you respond to that behavior.

 

00;00;45;01 – 00;01;09;17

Devon Kuntzman

And it’s really helpful to go from reacting to responding. So I always like to say a reaction is an emotion and action. And so what we want to do is separate our emotions from our actions. And when we can have reframes like this, it starts. That’s one way we can help, separate those two things.

 

00;01;09;19 – 00;01;37;24

Dr. Mona

Hey, everyone. Doctor Mona here, your online pediatrician, mom, friend and confidante in all things parenting. Welcome back to the PedsDocTalk podcast, where we have real, honest conversations that help you feel more confident raising your kids, whether it’s your 200th episode or your first. Make sure you subscribe and download. I cannot stress this enough. This is how the show can continue to grow, and how I can continue to bring you amazing conversations that help you feel seen and supported as a parent.

 

00;01;37;26 – 00;01;59;26

Dr. Mona

Today’s episode is one every parent of a toddler needs to hear. I’m joined by Devin Huntsman, toddler expert, coach and founder of Transforming Toddlerhood. She’s built a global community helping parents reframe what toddlerhood really is and that it’s not terrible. It’s teachable. It’s full of growth, connection and communication. And if you follow me, you know I feel the exact same way.

 

00;01;59;29 – 00;02;24;07

Dr. Mona

Her new book, Transforming Toddlerhood How to Handle Tantrums and Power Struggles and Raise Resilient Kids Without Losing Your Mind, is out now, and it’s changing the way parents think about discipline. In this episode, we discuss why bad behavior isn’t bad. It’s communication. How to stay calm when your child absolutely isn’t, and why. The long game of teaching not punishing is how you build emotional resilience in your child and yourself.

 

00;02;24;09 – 00;02;41;07

Dr. Mona

This is one of those conversations that makes you rethink the way you were raised, and maybe how you respond in those hard moments at home. And as someone who loves all things child development and behavior, it’s a must listen. So let’s get into it.

 

00;02;41;10 – 00;02;51;12

Dr. Mona

Thank you so much for joining me today. Devin, we are talking about the discipline reframe every parent needs, and I cannot wait to dive into this with you. But welcome to the show.

 

00;02;51;15 – 00;02;53;17

Devon Kuntzman

Thank you. I’m so excited to be here today.

 

00;02;53;18 – 00;03;10;13

Dr. Mona

Well, I’m so excited to finally connect. I was looking at my whole Rolodex of past guests and I’m like, I have not had her on. I have worked with you on the amazing, like, virtual conferences you do, and they have been such a great resource, and I’m so glad that we can have you on, especially as you’re debuting this new book.

 

00;03;10;13 – 00;03;19;10

Dr. Mona

And first and foremost, congratulations. I am in the process of writing my own book, and I know that process is very long. So kudos to you.

 

00;03;19;13 – 00;03;20;17

Devon Kuntzman

Thank you.

 

00;03;20;20 – 00;03;33;01

Dr. Mona

And we are talking about the discipline reframe every parent needs. And before we get into that, for anyone who’s not familiar with who you are. What made you so passionate about this topic? Especially writing this new book that’s out now?

 

00;03;33;04 – 00;04;14;04

Devon Kuntzman

Yeah. So toddlerhood is really such a challenging developmental period, but it’s not terrible. And I really started this work to flip the script on toddlerhood. So we could really stop saying that toddlerhood is so terrible because in reality, toddlerhood is a critical developmental period that sets the foundation for the rest of your child’s life. And if we look at it as something terrible that we just have to kind of like white knuckle and get through, then we miss a lot of opportunities, a lot of opportunities for joy, a lot of opportunities for teaching and learning, and just a lot of opportunities to create connection with our kiddos.

 

00;04;14;04 – 00;04;32;19

Devon Kuntzman

And I just really wanted to change the way that we relate to that. So when I started transforming toddlerhood in 2018, no one was talking about toddlers and I was like, what is going on here? This is like such an important developmental period that is so challenging and everyone’s just skipping right over it. So I said, things have to change.

 

00;04;32;19 – 00;04;35;24

Devon Kuntzman

And that’s how transforming toddlerhood started 2018.

 

00;04;35;24 – 00;04;57;20

Dr. Mona

So you start you were on the platform before the storm of content creators, right? Because I know that 2019 and 2020 was huge. Like I actually started my platform in 2019. And at that point I will I agree with you. There were not a lot of educators online in this space, and I was actually told by other people not in our niche like, oh, no one’s going to want to listen to education.

 

00;04;57;20 – 00;05;16;08

Dr. Mona

And I’m like, well, if that like, I really believe it. Like I’m going to join. And then I saw accounts like yours. I saw like mommy labor nurse was another educator in like the education space. So kudos to you to starting this and building what you have. And I think your reframe is exactly what this world needs. As you know, I feel the same way.

 

00;05;16;11 – 00;05;32;02

Dr. Mona

And I think so many of us were raised with that narrative and like, we just kind of throw out that terminology. Right? And it’s it’s nothing bad, but it’s like, you know, the terrible twos, the three major and like, the negativity around it. I don’t mind the jokes. Like I don’t mind it feeling I add some levity.

 

00;05;32;02 – 00;05;49;06

Dr. Mona

But you have to approach those periods with a little more understanding. And I know your book also focuses a lot on the development of the child. To start off, why is it so important to understand the toddler development brain before we talk about discipline?

 

00;05;49;09 – 00;06;19;11

Devon Kuntzman

Oh gosh, it’s everything. And I have a whole section of my book dedicated to this, because we need to understand what’s happening behind the behavior to truly understand and transform the behavior. It’s for only looking at the behavior on the surface, right? The hitting, the kicking, the screaming, all the things. Then we can get super frustrated and start getting in our own stress response and reacting, and then really trying to manage these behaviors in ways that don’t make us feel good as parents.

 

00;06;19;11 – 00;06;44;03

Devon Kuntzman

And when we understand what’s truly happening and creating that behavior, it completely changes. It just opens up a whole new like door to what is possible when we’re responding. And so understanding that toddlers have very under like developed brains, they’re not mature yet is what I mean. They’re not, you know, fully grown. They have all of the, neurons.

 

00;06;44;03 – 00;07;14;10

Devon Kuntzman

They’re born with those. But the neural pathways and connections, that’s what’s happening in the stage at such a very, very rapid pace. And so what happens there is we have this little being who’s trying to become themselves for the very first time to really say, like, oh, I’m a separate being from my parents and caregivers, really saying, gosh, I have my own preferences, my own needs, and I need to tell you about them, but not really having the words for young toddlers to be able to do that.

 

00;07;14;12 – 00;07;44;21

Devon Kuntzman

So it all comes out in these behaviors and in these behaviors. We’re learning about our child’s temperament and their level of brain maturity. And they’re communicating their basic needs, their sensory needs, their developmental needs, all of these things, feelings and emotions. This is all being communicated inside behavior. And when we understand that behavior is communication and we can get curious about what it’s communicating, that is what opens the door to transforming the behaviors.

 

00;07;44;26 – 00;08;06;18

Dr. Mona

Yes, transforming toddlerhood. What a great name already for obviously the platform as well. And the discipline reframe that every parent needs is exactly what we’re talking about, which you described as teaching and not punishing. And so many of us were raised with punishment. So let’s say fear based timeouts, spanking, yelling, a lot of these sort of fearful tactics.

 

00;08;06;18 – 00;08;16;22

Dr. Mona

Right. And so for many of us, it can be wired into us. Why do you think so many parents still feel that punishment is the most effective approach when it comes to discipline?

 

00;08;16;25 – 00;08;34;29

Devon Kuntzman

Yeah. Well, I mean, a lot of times just what’s wired into us. First, it’s challenging to create change, right, as adults. So we may just be doing what we experience as children and we may just be doing it without thinking about it. Or maybe we’re thinking about it and we’re saying, gosh, this really is in alignment for me.

 

00;08;34;29 – 00;08;55;17

Devon Kuntzman

I really don’t want to do this, but it can be really challenging to create new habits. So we end up doing it anyways when we get stuck in a stress response. And so it’s it’s challenging. It’s challenging the toddler and it’s challenging to be a toddler parent. And I think, yeah, the biggest part of that really is, is the fact that toddlers challenge our sense of control.

 

00;08;55;17 – 00;09;18;14

Devon Kuntzman

And notice I said, like our sense of control, right? Because we think we’re in control. But this control is an illusion, right? And when toddlers start, having their own preferences and telling us, you know, what they want and their agenda doesn’t match our agenda, we can feel like we’re losing control. And then we want to do what it takes to get it back.

 

00;09;18;14 – 00;09;39;00

Devon Kuntzman

So then we’re using tools that rely on blame, shame, guilt, judgment and fear to try to create this compliance and get back on top, get back into, control. But really, we can’t control another human being, but we get stuck in that loop and then it’s hard to get out of that loop.

 

00;09;39;03 – 00;09;59;29

Dr. Mona

Oh, absolutely. And I think that’s one of the barriers that parents feel and the way they fall into these kind of traps that we, me and you both see, this sort of fear and punishment rather than connection and, you know, obviously this, teaching. And so I want to talk about that teaching component. Right. You say that discipline isn’t about punishment, it’s about teaching, which I completely agree.

 

00;10;00;01 – 00;10;15;26

Dr. Mona

What exactly are we teaching, and how can that shape the way we respond to behavior? And maybe using an example that may be common for a parent. Now let’s take a quick break to hear from our sponsors who support helps us keep bringing you this show.

 

00;10;15;29 – 00;10;42;25

Devon Kuntzman

Oh yeah. Absolutely. Well, you know, when it comes to discipline in general, I always like to talk about the recipe for effective discipline and teaching skills is one part of that. But for me, the recipe is really creating connection, setting limits and following through on them, and then teaching skills and I think that we need to have all of that recipe present to get the outcome that we’re looking for.

 

00;10;42;25 – 00;11;16;22

Devon Kuntzman

And, you know, what are we teaching? We’re teaching those emotional regulation skills, impulse control skills, conflict resolution skills, relationship skills, problem solving skills, all of these skills that children need to learn to be successful in life. Because, you know, really what we’re doing is we’re trying to work ourselves out of the job as parents we don’t want to have if we want to raise capable and confident kids, we don’t want them always looking externally for someone outside of them to tell them, like where the line is drawn.

 

00;11;16;28 – 00;11;40;02

Devon Kuntzman

But if we’re always just dishing out arbitrary punishments for every behavior that we don’t like or we find frustrating or we don’t agree with, then we’re just training kids to kind of look outside of them to what someone else is telling them to do. And then, you know, we’re not really having the opportunity for them to learn through their mistakes.

 

00;11;40;02 – 00;12;01;22

Devon Kuntzman

And that’s part of teaching skills, is getting to learn through their mistakes, getting to make decisions, see the outcome and then learn to make a new decision. All of these things and it looks different, right? For, every child and every stage, you know, young toddlers, one and two year olds, it’s going to look a little bit different for three and four year olds, you know, older toddlers.

 

00;12;01;22 – 00;12;26;25

Devon Kuntzman

But I think, you know, a great example here is thinking about, okay, we have a, child who maybe is playing in, the dog’s water. Right? Because toddlers love sensory play. They love to play in water. And so maybe they see the dog’s water dish and they are in there splashing. You come over there and you’re like, oh my gosh.

 

00;12;26;25 – 00;12;47;04

Devon Kuntzman

Like they’re making a mess. There’s everywhere that like, you know, it’s like this is was not on the bingo card for this morning. We have 20 other things to do. Right. So it’s really easy to react and be like, stop doing that. That’s bad. You know, go and time out something like this, when really what we want to do is teach kids some better way.

 

00;12;47;04 – 00;13;06;06

Devon Kuntzman

Right. And in this case, we might want to teach our kids a way to get their needs met. So you might come up and say something like, hey, I see your playing in the water and the dog’s water stays in the bowl. That’s setting the limit. I can’t let you play in that water. If you want to play in water, where is a good place to play in water?

 

00;13;06;13 – 00;13;23;15

Devon Kuntzman

Let’s fill up the sink. Let’s do some dishes together. Pull over a stool or a toddler tower. Get them in there washing some dishes, something like this. Or, maybe it’s time for a midday bath to kind of break up the monotony of the day, especially on a rainy day. I think doing a three day bath is always a good plan.

 

00;13;23;15 – 00;13;51;20

Devon Kuntzman

Whenever things start getting a little bit crazy, get them in the bathtub. And so, you know, right there a child’s learning like I’m the I’m not bad because I had this developmental desire to experiment and explore what their learning is. Oh, this is not the right place to do this. I can do this somewhere else. And so we’re working together, and partnership with our children to get their needs met within our boundaries.

 

00;13;51;23 – 00;14;10;01

Dr. Mona

I love this, and I think it’s so important to remember that these things are so valuable in the toddler years, and your principles are also going to be valuable as a child gets older. I mean, this is all how we communicate with children. Like I have a five, a five and a half year old, almost six year old, and we went to a restaurant and he got like an adult cup, you know, like, of a Shirley Temple.

 

00;14;10;01 – 00;14;22;11

Dr. Mona

And it was large, like it was very tall for his age. And I was like, you know what? Let him enjoy it. I in my head, I was like, oh, this might tip over, but I didn’t even say that it was going to tip over. I’m like, let him drink it. He’s drinking it. Half of it goes, and then he spills it, right?

 

00;14;22;11 – 00;14;41;11

Dr. Mona

He tips it over because the straw is a little tall. And we’ve gone through mistakes and spills in our house. Right. And he got up. It spilled all over his shirt. And he does not. He’s very sensory averse. So he doesn’t like liquids on his shirts and shorts. He wanted to change. We walked him through it. The alternative would have been, which a lot of parents may have experienced.

 

00;14;41;18 – 00;15;00;25

Dr. Mona

Our peers is you had to be careful. I told you a million times. Like if you were not careful, then you were going to spill this. And now look at what you did. We literally just said, yep, you. It fell. You have to. We have to clean it. But a natural a basically a consequence that just made sense for us, not like us to be mean was that that was it.

 

00;15;00;25 – 00;15;13;26

Dr. Mona

We’re not going to have we’re not going to get another Shirley Temple. Right. He finished half of it. It fell. And it wasn’t anything like a punishment, but it was more like, you know what? We can have water now. Maybe it’s best to have some water and then next time we come to dinner will not have, you know, the Shirley Temple.

 

00;15;14;01 – 00;15;34;22

Dr. Mona

But not to reinforce that, like, we make mistakes, we can just clean it right up and everything goes back to normal all the time that, hey, we made a mistake. It happened not mad at you about the mistake, but now let’s just have some water instead. And these are the little small skills that we keep building. And so I think when parents hear like, oh, well, I’m not going to teach my kid if I just, you know, like let them do.

 

00;15;34;22 – 00;15;49;29

Dr. Mona

There’s a difference between yes, you have some boundaries here. You just said it perfectly. Like you’re showing your child the boundary. They’re your they’re not allowed to get in the water. You’re teaching them what they can do. And this kind of behavior will be something as you get older, right. To be cautious with spills, to be whatever they’re doing.

 

00;15;49;29 – 00;16;08;03

Dr. Mona

And I think it’s so important to remember that you can have loving boundaries but not be threatening and not be filling it with punishment. And I think parents have a hard line of figuring out what is a punishment, what is a consequence, what is normal in that situation. I’m wondering if you see that same thing in your work.

 

00;16;08;10 – 00;16;29;15

Devon Kuntzman

Yes, absolutely. Oh my gosh. I love talking about consequences. Yes. And but one thing I want to say is that I love this example. Same things happened to me, with my little one at a restaurant. And, you know, one thing that’s I think it’s important to say is that kids learn best through experience. Honestly, we all do.

 

00;16;29;17 – 00;16;57;11

Devon Kuntzman

When we learn through experience, we somehow we get it more imprinted in our brain, right? We’re going through it versus someone just telling us something. And so, yes, it would be more convenient for us parents if we could just say something and then it just always kids did it. It all worked out that way. Yes. And so I recognize that having kids learn through experience, just like in this example that you gave, the example I gave is more inconvenient for the adult.

 

00;16;57;11 – 00;17;16;26

Devon Kuntzman

But kids are going to learn way more when we allow them to learn through experience. And that brings me to like this idea of consequences, because I always, yes, I get this question all the time. Well, what consequence do I give this behavior. Yeah. And so first thing I want to say is we want to come back to the recipe for effective discipline.

 

00;17;17;00 – 00;17;39;28

Devon Kuntzman

We want to create connection. We want to set limits and help our child follow through on them. And we want to teach skills. But when it comes to consequences, there’s three types of consequences. There are, you know, natural consequences. There are logical consequences. And then there’s arbitrary consequences. And the natural consequences is what we’re talking about, where the child learns through experience, the adult is not intervening here.

 

00;17;40;03 – 00;18;01;29

Devon Kuntzman

They just have an experience. They learn, and then they learn something from that, and then they take that with them. Logical consequence is a consequence that makes sense for the situation. So say your child is playing in like a sensory. Been at home. We have we’ve been doing a lot of that lately at our house. And so say your child’s like throwing the rainbow race out of the sensory barn.

 

00;18;01;29 – 00;18;18;10

Devon Kuntzman

And they you say, oh, the race is in the bin. They keep doing it. And you come over again and you’re connected, and you put a hand on their shoulder and you’re down on their level and you say something like, you’re having so much fun playing and the race needs to stay in the bin, and then they keep doing it.

 

00;18;18;10 – 00;18;38;28

Devon Kuntzman

So what do you do? You have to like set help them follow through on the limit. So you might say we’re going to take a break from playing in the rainbow race right now. And we’ll try again later and later. Could be five minutes five hours, five days, five weeks, whatever. But that’s a logical consequence because it makes sense for what was happening.

 

00;18;39;02 – 00;19;02;26

Devon Kuntzman

And arbitrary consequence is what we’re talking about, where we like, you know, punish a child. It’s basically a punishment where we say, well, I don’t like this behavior that you’re having. So now we’re taking away x, y, Z. No dessert for dinner, no screen time today, no whatever. And that doesn’t make the connection. This is what’s happening when we’re using these arbitrary consequences are these punishments.

 

00;19;02;26 – 00;19;26;08

Devon Kuntzman

And so we think we’re teaching our kids something. But really depending on their personality, if we’re like just doling out these punishments, if they have a stronger personality, we’re probably teaching them, to just get better at hiding the behavior so they don’t get in trouble. Right? So we might be prompting kids to, like, hide what they’re doing and lie about it.

 

00;19;26;14 – 00;19;48;00

Devon Kuntzman

Or if you have, like a child who is more docile in temperament than what we might be teaching is people pleasing. And for the child to, you know, they’re fearful and they’re, complying just to make sure that they keep that, that feeling of like love and acceptance from the parent and pushing their needs to the side.

 

00;19;48;00 – 00;19;57;03

Devon Kuntzman

And so it giving out these arbitrary punishments or these arbitrary consequences don’t really teach what we think they are in the moment.

 

00;19;57;05 – 00;20;14;00

Dr. Mona

Yeah. And I think it goes back to what we were saying about, like it tends to be more obviously arbitrary, usually is more reactive than responsive. Right. It’s from our own frustration of what I need to freaking end this, and I’m just going to threaten. And I did that once to my son and it felt so off for me, because that’s not what I usually do.

 

00;20;14;00 – 00;20;28;06

Dr. Mona

But I was so at my limit. And I actually have a you know, I wrote a post about that because it was so I did it. And my brain knows that this is not going to go anywhere. And it was like almost like a test of like, oh yeah, it went nowhere. It went nowhere. There was more yelling, there was more screaming.

 

00;20;28;06 – 00;20;45;01

Dr. Mona

What we needed in that moment was what I was not doing, which is connection, which was I need to understand the why, right? Like what we talk about with toddlers and what is the core of this sort of behavior that led me to make this arbitrary consequence that had nothing to do with what was going on. And so I love that.

 

00;20;45;01 – 00;21;08;07

Dr. Mona

Thank you for laying that out. I also do love talking about consequences and discipline because I think so many parents don’t understand how they’re so connected and how they matter so much, and how how much, how we show up to those moments have an impact, right? Like our stress or frustrations are going to cause you to say things and make make mistakes of like how maybe you didn’t want to parent in that situation.

 

00;21;08;07 – 00;21;26;25

Dr. Mona

That’s totally normal. And I think the common thing that I hear is that punishment can sometimes feel like a quick fix. So I’m going to use an example of like someone who tells me that they slap their kid when they’re not behaving okay. Punishment can feel, oh yeah, look, now they’re listening. And my kid’s so well behaved because they’re being punished.

 

00;21;26;25 – 00;21;47;23

Dr. Mona

And we know that that’s more fear based. But me and you both know that teaching true teaching takes longer, and the results aren’t always immediate. Why do you feel? And if you could get on your soapbox right now, why do you feel that parents should stay committed to the long game of discipline, even when it feels slower to the quick fixes that punishment can provide?

 

00;21;47;26 – 00;22;00;13

Devon Kuntzman

It’s frustrating, right? It’s so frustrating. Results, right? It’s like we’re human beings. We’re just wired for that instant gratification. And now the way our world is set up with like, you know, Amazon Prime and DoorDash.

 

00;22;00;13 – 00;22;01;02

Dr. Mona

Yeah, yeah.

 

00;22;01;03 – 00;22;27;08

Devon Kuntzman

Let’s get like so many hits of that instant gratification. It is so hard. I think the bigger thing is, is kind of what I was saying before. Is that really one of the biggest goals here is to work ourselves out of the job as parents and to raise capable and confident kids, and that requires for us to work with our child’s development, not against it, and to work at our child’s pace.

 

00;22;27;11 – 00;22;48;13

Devon Kuntzman

And just because we’re not getting the results we want, doesn’t mean that we’re not doing a good job. Like we have to take our child’s development into account and make sure that we’re setting realistic expectations. And honestly, a lot of parents for, of like two and three year olds have very unrealistic expectations about what their child is capable of.

 

00;22;48;13 – 00;23;18;03

Devon Kuntzman

I always say that we tend to overestimate, our child’s emotional skills and capabilities, but maybe underestimate their physical skills and capabilities. So that might mean we do things for our kids that they are capable of doing themselves. Like maybe we get them dressed because it’s faster and not that’s that’s bad or wrong, right? But there might be opportunities for us to slow down some days when there is that space and, you know, teach our kids those skills that put on, their own closer to make their better things like that.

 

00;23;18;03 – 00;23;41;25

Devon Kuntzman

But then we might expect kids to be able to stop themselves from having a tantrum when they feel frustrated or disappointed, and they’re just actually not capable of doing that, even though we wish they were. And so I tend to find that having unrealistic expectations is what gives this illusion that we’re not making progress, right? Because we don’t see that immediate gratification.

 

00;23;41;25 – 00;23;49;28

Devon Kuntzman

But then all of a sudden, gosh, like a few weeks later, your toddler says something or does something and you’re like, they were listening.

 

00;23;50;01 – 00;23;50;27

Dr. Mona

Yes.

 

00;23;51;00 – 00;24;20;03

Devon Kuntzman

You know, in those moments are are so rewarding. And I think it comes down to really knowing your values as a parent and knowing the outcomes that you’re looking for, and choosing to raise a child with putting emotional health and emotional resilience first over, compliance and, keeping up that illusion of control.

 

00;24;20;05 – 00;24;45;03

Dr. Mona

Now let’s take a quick break to hear from our sponsors who support helps us keep bringing you this show. Oh, it’s so much about control. And it’s our uncomfortability with feelings. It’s our uncomfortability with their discomfort. As if so many things that we go back to. Obviously, ourselves. Right. I, I knew that before becoming a parent, becoming a parent, obviously, I see that in my office, five years practicing before I actually had my own children.

 

00;24;45;10 – 00;25;09;27

Dr. Mona

And then when I actually had my son, I was like, this is it. This is that feeling that comes over you. This is the past childhood experiences for yourself that come in and you’re like, this is how I was parented. And I want to kind of revert back to that sometimes, you know, I, I, I’ve been very vocal about that sort of, you know, that reversion that I have of like, okay, now I got a something comes over you and you want to do, you want to do as you learn, but you want to undo that behavior as well.

 

00;25;09;27 – 00;25;29;16

Dr. Mona

And I think, you know, it is so hard in the moment when a child is melting down or defiant, it’s hard not to react, but actually respond. So what would be your tip for that person, that parent, to pause and shift from managing behavior to actually guiding it and teaching it when they’re struggling with that sort of aggravation.

 

00;25;29;16 – 00;25;30;10

Dr. Mona

And that’s building up.

 

00;25;30;17 – 00;25;37;19

Devon Kuntzman

Gosh, yes. You know, you’ve read all these blog posts like first step is pause. And it’s like, yes, yes, but how do we pause? Yeah.

 

00;25;37;19 – 00;25;38;07

Dr. Mona

How do we.

 

00;25;38;07 – 00;25;57;13

Devon Kuntzman

Pause when our emotion, when we’re on the emotional roller coaster with our child and someone needs to pull the brakes and it’s not going to be our emotionally immature child. So we’ve got to get ourselves together. How do we pull the brakes? How do we pause is so challenging sometimes. So, there’s kind of three things I like to say about this.

 

00;25;57;13 – 00;26;18;26

Devon Kuntzman

I would say first, what I was just mentioning a moment ago, get clear in your goals and values. Hang that up where you can see it, and keep it like in the front of your mind. Because when you are aware of the bigger goal you’re working towards, that’s going to help you in the moment, understand why you are trying to talk yourself off that ledge.

 

00;26;18;26 – 00;26;49;13

Devon Kuntzman

Right. The second thing is create safety. This is like the pre-work before you can, like, really implement the recipe for effective discipline. And I like to say that we need to create that physical safety. So then we can create the emotional safety. So that means if our child is doing something that is potentially harmful for themselves or harmful for us, or we’re even perceiving a threat that’s not there, we need to handle that first.

 

00;26;49;15 – 00;27;16;27

Devon Kuntzman

So then we can tell ourselves this is not an emergency, I am safe, my child is safe. This has to be like our mantra here. This is not an emergency. And to tell ourselves this over and over because if no one needs to go to the hospital or emergency room, everyone’s safe. It doesn’t matter if you address your child’s behavior, that moment or in five minutes or in ten minutes once you’re calm.

 

00;27;17;00 – 00;27;41;07

Devon Kuntzman

And so what we want to do is after creating that physical safety, create the emotional safety. Help yourself calm down. Do some things that help you. For me, it’s going to sound funny, but like sitting down because I find that if I can’t move, then it’s like moving like that helps me rev up, right? And so, like, sitting down helps me like take it down a few notches.

 

00;27;41;14 – 00;28;01;18

Devon Kuntzman

I also like to look out the window if there’s a window nearby, just kind of like connecting with nature, taking some deep breaths, maybe like smelling some essential oils. There’s so many things that you can do, and it’s like finding what works best for you and even validating yourself. Like, I feel frustrated right now. I’m having a hard time staying calm.

 

00;28;01;18 – 00;28;24;00

Devon Kuntzman

I want to yell right now! You can even say this out loud like it’s okay to, put it on loudspeaker and like, work through it. As long as it’s like I statements and you’re taking responsibility, but you’re really it’s okay to work through it with your child there. Because again, your child’s going to learn from you like you oftentimes you think, oh gosh, I’m such a bad parent.

 

00;28;24;00 – 00;28;44;15

Devon Kuntzman

Like, I don’t know how to stay calm. I don’t know how to pause. And it’s like, no, these are all learning opportunities in that moment, and you’re allowed to learn alongside your child. So I would say that that creating safety is so important. And then doing a redo because when we start realizing like, I just yell, that’s not what I meant to do.

 

00;28;44;15 – 00;29;00;15

Devon Kuntzman

You can say, oh my goodness, I’m so sorry. I just yell, and that’s not what I wanted to do. How I wanted, what I wanted to do was say this. And the more you practice that redo closer and closer to when it happened, that’s how the real change happens.

 

00;29;00;18 – 00;29;16;01

Dr. Mona

Oh, I love and I get I love that you’re focusing on the moments after and before as well, right? I mean, we think that disciplining is so much in the moment, but sometimes you’re going to obviously have to talk about it after. And so many parents feel like, you know, okay, well, I handled the tantrum, handled this thing.

 

00;29;16;01 – 00;29;36;28

Dr. Mona

But obviously the the repair, the redo, the discussions about what happened is so much more valuable when everyone’s calm. And, you know, I love that you brought up ways that you calm yourself. And I love to use the word grounding because I find that when I say calm down to myself, it’s more triggering. I don’t think anyone who’s ever been told to calm down will calm down, right?

 

00;29;36;28 – 00;30;02;22

Dr. Mona

It’s very triggering. Like, just calm down. So I say, let’s ground myself. What’s ground and what’s grounding for me? Humor. So I’ll make a funny face. Like when I’m feeling myself just starting to get here high. I’ll just make a funny sound with my lips. And I found what’s really helped, which is my little hack, is I have bubbles in my kitchen, which is where we’re normally at, and whenever I’m starting to feel myself get really dysregulated, I blow bubbles.

 

00;30;02;28 – 00;30;19;12

Dr. Mona

Why does this help? It helps me because I’m breathing and it helps the kids because it lightens the mood and I it has been my hack now of like literally whenever I’m feeling like the energy is really high, I like get the bubbles. It’s literally like in our little island area and I’m like, hey guys, I’m about to blow some bubbles.

 

00;30;19;12 – 00;30;35;00

Dr. Mona

Anyone want to see bubbles? And my kids? They’re like bubbles. And they’re like, they’re energy’s lower. I can now grind my ground myself. Now if it’s in the middle of a tantrum, I’ll still blow a bubble. And all of a sudden my son’s smiling and he’s like, oh. And I’m like, I come here. I’m like, do you want to blow some bubbles?

 

00;30;35;05 – 00;30;51;00

Dr. Mona

And he’s like, yeah, I want to blow bubbles. And I was like, okay, let’s blow some bubbles. So it’s like this almost healthy coping skill of like, let’s breathe without telling them to breathe. Hack. But I love that because it is something that can really help ground ourselves. And I think I feel, yeah.

 

00;30;51;03 – 00;31;07;21

Devon Kuntzman

I feel like bubbles. Like, we could even have a whole episode. Just fun bubbles. So they feel like such an important parenting tool. Like they can be used for so many things. Like, you can’t get your child to go to the bathtub like the big bath. Oh, but a bubble trail. It’s going to get you there. Or you need them to release when they’re on the potty.

 

00;31;07;21 – 00;31;14;00

Devon Kuntzman

When they’re potty training, get the bubbles out. I just feel like bubbles are like the solution for so many things in your parenting.

 

00;31;14;02 – 00;31;38;25

Dr. Mona

Like if you do not like bubbles, something must. There’s something wrong. I mean, bubbles just are visually one of the most joyful things to like. I’m just sitting there and I’m like, look at it. But no, I love we should do we should do the bubble. The bubble episode. And I think, like, I guess a few last questions, though, you know, using threats, bribes, yelling, whether physical discipline can again, we feel like it’s compliance, but it’s not necessarily growth.

 

00;31;38;25 – 00;31;54;08

Dr. Mona

We’ve established that. What are your like few go to discipline strategies? I know you have so much more probably in the book that can help build that long term emotional skill without relying on control that parents really want to have when they use those methods of threats and bribes and yelling.

 

00;31;54;11 – 00;32;27;22

Devon Kuntzman

Yeah. In my book I have it split into five sections and there’s a whole section on understanding your toddler’s behavior and then discipline that works with your child’s development not against it. And so I talk about this a lot and I feel like one of the most important parenting tools is, okay, acknowledge the behavior you want to see, acknowledging the positive behavior and why I think this is so powerful is because it’s helpful not only for our toddlers, but for us as parents, because our brains tend to just focus on, you know, what we see.

 

00;32;27;22 – 00;32;44;03

Devon Kuntzman

And if we’re focusing on the behavior, we don’t want to see or the, you know, the negative behavior, if that’s what we’re spending all of our time focusing on and responding to, then that’s what our brain is seeing. And it’s causing like a snowball effect. So your toddler might be having the behavior you want to see throughout the day.

 

00;32;44;09 – 00;33;03;28

Devon Kuntzman

But those are the moments we’re not even seeing it because we’re so focused on, like the shoe dropping and like what’s going to happen next. And you know, the behavior we don’t want to see. So when we can shift and start intentionally noticing the behavior we want that we want to see, and even if it’s like a little bit better than it was last time.

 

00;33;03;28 – 00;33;28;14

Devon Kuntzman

So, you know, for example, if your child, you know, plays with their the new baby and a really gentle way just saying, hey, I love how you gave your brother that toy so gently. Thank you. Or that was so helpful. Or you could say something like, oh, look, your baby brother smiling. He’s so happy you gave him that toy.

 

00;33;28;14 – 00;33;48;10

Devon Kuntzman

It’s mostly just noticing what you see. You know, I see this. I saw that, thank you for these things. But what this does. But even more so what is I and say also is like, even if your child goes to hit you and they, like, bring their arm back, but then they don’t hit or your child goes to bite you, but they don’t sink their teeth in.

 

00;33;48;15 – 00;34;14;12

Devon Kuntzman

You want to say something like, wow, you really wanted to bite mommy, and you didn’t look at that self-control. You did it. These things are going to help our children want to have more of that behavior. Because our children, more than anything, are fearful of losing our unconditional love and acceptance. And so when we give them positive attention for the behavior we want to see, they’re going to be more likely to have it.

 

00;34;14;12 – 00;34;19;06

Devon Kuntzman

And we’re training our brains at the same time to see it. So it’s like a double win.

 

00;34;19;08 – 00;34;44;20

Dr. Mona

I love that example. It’s so true. And again, when we talked about that, that parents forget that it’s the moments outside of the anger. I mean, you brought up a beautiful moment when they stop in the middle of it, but like bringing the attention to the behavior that you want, it seems so obvious for us. And I know so many parents struggle with it, but it’s like they I often talk about, like how small children are very similar to puppies, like when you’re when you’re training a puppy, right?

 

00;34;44;22 – 00;34;58;01

Dr. Mona

I’m not saying that they have the same brain level. Okay, let’s be clear. But like, same thing, like if your dog were to pee in the in the floor, you’re not going to yell at that dog. Why would you pee on the floor, right? Or doing, like, hit the dog you’re going to when they do pee where they’re supposed to pee?

 

00;34;58;04 – 00;35;19;15

Dr. Mona

Great job Shiloh, you peed in? Not quite. You peed in those. Like, that’s literally an example. Or like the positive reinforcement, right? Every human being, very dog like. They like that positive reinforcement that sticks that’s more sticky than hitting someone or yelling or bribing. And I think that’s so, so valuable. You have had such, so many amazing pearls.

 

00;35;19;15 – 00;35;33;11

Dr. Mona

I’m not surprised, because, of course, I love your work, and I love what you do for toddler parents. And like, again, reframing how we look at discipline. What what’s one common mindset or belief around discipline that you wish every parent could unlearn?

 

00;35;33;13 – 00;35;56;06

Devon Kuntzman

Oh, gosh. Well, I’m so many reframes. I love talking about reframes. I think that’s the coaching me that what? Yeah. Let’s say the number one is instead of saying what punishment or what consequence does my child need for this behavior? I like the flip that script and say, what skills does my child need to learn to be successful here?

 

00;35;56;08 – 00;36;19;29

Devon Kuntzman

Because when we shift that language now we’re curious. We go from like, yeah, feeling like this. We have to try to get them back under control, too. Okay. I’m curious, what do they need? How do I help? And then that’s going to set you up for a success and completely change, how you how you respond to that behavior.

 

00;36;19;29 – 00;36;40;16

Devon Kuntzman

And it’s really helpful to go from reacting to responding. So I always like to say an emotion, a reaction is an emotion and action. And so what we want to do is separate our emotions from our actions. And when we can have reframes like this, it starts. That’s one way we can help, separate those two things.

 

00;36;40;24 – 00;36;55;29

Dr. Mona

Devin, thank you so much. So good. Like, that was my I was like, I always like to end this is something positive and like uplifting. And that was totally it. Is there anything else, an uplifting message that you’d like to leave our listeners with as they take all of this information and go forth in that parenting world?

 

00;36;56;05 – 00;37;15;18

Devon Kuntzman

Oh my gosh, yes. I just want to say you are a human being and so is your child. You’re not a robot, neither is your child. You’re not meant to act like one. It’s okay to be human. It’s okay to have feelings and emotions and needs, and it’s okay for your child to as well. And all of these challenges are opportunities for growth and learning.

 

00;37;15;18 – 00;37;17;19

Devon Kuntzman

If you accept the invitation.

 

00;37;17;21 – 00;37;28;17

Dr. Mona

I am so grateful for you joining me today. What a wealth of information. Where can people go to stay connected and get your new book and plug that? Because I would love this to get into the more hands of more people.

 

00;37;28;20 – 00;37;51;14

Devon Kuntzman

Yeah. So this book is so amazing and so groundbreaking. You can find it on Amazon or on my website, and it is, 45 mini chapters covering all of the challenges that you might face in toddlerhood. So it’s really written to be a comprehensive, easy to digest guide just to be your friend and your companion when you’re stuck in the trenches of toddlerhood.

 

00;37;51;14 – 00;37;59;29

Devon Kuntzman

And, a really great place to connect with me on a daily basis is over on Instagram at transforming toddlerhood or transforming toddlerhood.com.

 

00;38;00;04 – 00;38;16;14

Dr. Mona

And I will be linking all of that to our captions and show notes so that you all have it, because it’s important to get the resources you need. And really, again, reframe how you approach this parenting journey, especially with our youngest, because sometimes we forget that it’s the foundation of how we were going to show up for the rest of their lives.

 

00;38;16;20 – 00;38;19;13

Dr. Mona

Thank you so much, Devin, for joining me today.

 

00;38;19;16 – 00;38;22;23

Devon Kuntzman

Thank you.

 

00;38;22;25 – 00;38;47;28

Dr. Mona

This conversation was such a breath of fresh air. Devin has a way of reminding us that toddlerhood isn’t a stage to survive. It’s a stage to understand her insights on teaching instead of punishing. Staying grounded when your child is melting down and using connection instead of control. It’s exactly what so many of us need to hear. If you’re in the thick of toddlerhood, her book, Transforming Toddlerhood is out now, and it’s one I truly recommend every parent keeps on their nightstand.

 

00;38;48;01 – 00;39;09;29

Dr. Mona

You can find it on Amazon or at Transforming toddlerhood.com, and follow her at Transforming toddlerhood for daily reminders that will shift your whole approach. And don’t forget, download this episode. It really helps the show grow and helps us keep sharing these kinds of conversations that matter. Head over to PedsDocTalk or the PedsDocTalk podcast. Find our post about this episode and let me know what really hit home for you.

 

00;39;10;02 – 00;39;26;15

Dr. Mona

Because the toddler years, they aren’t always a walk in the park. But if you can look at it as an immense stage of growth, it doesn’t have to feel so terrible. They’re about patients growth and rewiring what discipline really means for them and for us. Thank you for listening and I cannot wait to chat next week.