⁠VOTE! The PedsDocTalk Podcast has been nominated for a People’s Choice Signal Award – Family and Child Rearing. Vote now through October 15th.⁠

I’m joined by Laura Petix, pediatric occupational therapist and the founder of The OT Butterfly, to unpack your child’s sensory processing differences. Behaviors like meltdowns, crashing, restlessness or selective eating often stem from their unique “sensory code”. Recognizing these underneath-the-surface needs allow us to move away from reactive power struggles and toward proactive connection.

We discuss: 

• The three hidden internal systems: vestibular, proprioceptive, and interoceptive

• Oversensitivity to internal sensations during moments of distress or embarrassment

• Kids who constantly climb, crash or spin and what needs they need met

• Sensory overload in environments like school cafeterias 

• Adults who accommodate their own sensory preferences daily

• How dysregulation is usually a gradual buildup

• Simple sensory tools like cooling items, fidgets and crunchy foods

To connect with Laura Petix follow her on Instagram @theOTbutterfuly and find all her resources at ⁠https://theotbutterfly.com/⁠. Buy her new book, “The Sensory Code: Understanding Sensory Processing Differences to Support Your Child’s Unique Needs”: ⁠https://link.amazon/B0fDglrrK⁠ (paid link)

Our podcasts are also now on YouTube. If you prefer a video podcast with closed captioning, check us out there and⁠ ⁠subscribe to PedsDocTalk⁠⁠.

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00;00;42;25 – 00;01;05;10

Dr. Mona

Welcome back to the show. It’s Doctor Mona, your online pediatrician, maybe your mom friend, or you feel like that in that parasocial relationship. But I want you to know something. This show is nominated for an award. Yes. The PedsDocTalk podcast is nominated for its first award ever. And it makes me so happy. The signal award for best show in family and child raising.

00;01;05;14 – 00;01;24;13

Dr. Mona

But you have to vote for us to even have a chance of winning. If you’ve learned something from the show, felt less alone because of a conversation we’ve had or shared an episode with another parent or your spouse. Please take less than three minutes and vote. Go to the link and Caption or Vote Signal award.com. Search my category.

00;01;24;21 – 00;01;42;07

Dr. Mona

Best in show and family and child raising and vote for our show, please! How amazing would it be for this show to be recognized? Okay, but let’s get into today’s conversation and it’s going to make you want to go vote, I promise. Have you ever looked at your child and thought, why are they doing this? Why can’t they sit still?

00;01;42;11 – 00;02;02;29

Dr. Mona

Why are they crashing into everything? Why does getting dressed turn into a full blown battle? A kid we might call misbehaved may actually be a kid whose body is telling us they need a different approach and understanding their sensory code may be one piece we’ve been missing. Every child has sensory needs, whether they’re neurodivergent, neurotypical, diagnosed, or not.

00;02;03;02 – 00;02;32;00

Dr. Mona

And while sensory needs don’t explain every behavior, understanding what’s happening underneath the behavior can completely change how we respond to it. And I’ve experienced this firsthand, and we’ll talk about it in the episode. Today’s guest is Laura Paddock’s, a neurodivergent pediatric occupational therapist, author of The Sensory Code Understanding Sensory Processing Differences to Support Your Child’s Unique Needs and a nationally recognized voice in sensory processing and nervous system informed behavior support.

00;02;32;03 – 00;02;53;21

Dr. Mona

She’s also the founder of the OT butterfly, where she’s helped hundreds of thousands of parents, educators, and clinicians better understand kids and their sensory needs. We’re talking about how there’s not just five senses, but eight senses. What sensory seeking can actually look like, why some kids go from 0 to 100, and how sensory processing can affect everything from meltdowns to picky eating.

00;02;53;24 – 00;03;17;13

Dr. Mona

And most importantly, what we can do with this information. So if you’ve ever felt like you’re trying every parenting strategy and still can’t figure out what your child’s behavior is telling you, you are not alone. Sometimes we need to look underneath the behavior before deciding what to do about it and understand their sensory code. Make sure you subscribe to the podcast, download this episode and send it to another parent who needs it.

00;03;17;15 – 00;03;34;01

Dr. Mona

And if something clicks, share it and tag the PedsDocTalk podcast, PedsDocTalk, and the OT butterfly so we know that you’re listening. Let’s get into the sensory code.

00;03;34;03 – 00;03;37;02

Dr. Mona

Thank you so much for joining us, Laura.

00;03;37;04 – 00;03;39;29

Laura Petix

I am so excited to be here with you, Mona.

00;03;40;01 – 00;03;54;07

Dr. Mona

I am so excited. You know, when I meet people online and then we become real life friends. And one of those real life friends ends up having something like a book. Congratulations. It makes me feel so happy for you. It smells so good. How do you. Just like.

00;03;54;09 – 00;03;58;22

Laura Petix

It’s one of the first things I did, I just, I like lifted. I’m like.

00;03;58;24 – 00;03;59;27

Dr. Mona

Like that new book.

00;03;59;27 – 00;04;08;16

Laura Petix

Smell like like a baby’s head. Like it’s just nothing. Nothing replicates it. It’s very satisfying. Yes, absolutely.

00;04;08;16 – 00;04;12;28

Dr. Mona

New car smell, baby. Yeah. New car smell. New book. Smell of baby’s.

00;04;12;28 – 00;04;16;21

Laura Petix

Head. Yes. 1,000% necessary for me.

00;04;16;21 – 00;04;19;03

Dr. Mona

Yeah. I’m sorry, but gas Sharpies. Yeah.

00;04;19;06 – 00;04;20;16

Laura Petix

Sharpies are great.

00;04;20;21 – 00;04;37;02

Dr. Mona

Yes. Oh my gosh, you are. You are joining the Sharpie world of fixations here I am. I’m so happy. You know, I’m really proud of you. I know the work that goes into writing a book. I am writing my own. But even before writing my own, I was very well aware of not only the process it takes, but also just getting the word out.

00;04;37;02 – 00;04;49;16

Dr. Mona

And I’m just so glad that we can connect to talk about it. Not only because you’re my friend, but because I really believe that this information is information that parents don’t know they need to know. And do you feel the same way?

00;04;49;18 – 00;05;15;05

Laura Petix

I 1,000% feel the same way, and it always feels good to me to get to talk to a clinician, a pediatrician, the medical provider who we occupational therapists need to understand what we do. Because the amount of times I hear from parents that their medical providers or pediatricians aren’t giving them an OT referral because they don’t think an OT covers that scope, it it frustrates me.

00;05;15;05 – 00;05;30;11

Laura Petix

And so getting to chat like this and someone like you who I know you’re, you also have a real life bestie who’s an OT like you really get it from the ground up. And it’s not just like you’re just listening to what people like. You totally get it. So it’s it’s always an honor to get to chat with you about this.

00;05;30;13 – 00;05;54;06

Dr. Mona

And you know this. Mom, I’ve shared a little bit in detail on my Instagram, but really more on my podcast where, you know, the the OGs, the real pizza TikTok fans come and listen about how my son, you know, I had to really learn about sensory differences for my son. And also it made me a better educator and a better pediatrician with all the guidance I give on potty training meltdowns, feeding.

00;05;54;06 – 00;06;05;07

Dr. Mona

I mean, we don’t realize how much of this information knowing your child’s sensory differences can really help you parent better because you’re not trying to fight your child. You’re trying to work with them.

00;06;05;09 – 00;06;39;21

Laura Petix

Yeah, it’s really if there was a cheat code, it would be understanding their sensory preferences. Because once you understand that, you really see their behaviors as less of a factor and that that’s just kind of the noisy part of it. And you get stuck in like how to work with that surface level. But if you can see beyond that and take the time to know what their sensory systems are telling you, you can make clearer parenting decisions that are more sustainable, like more like long term growth, rather than just like putting out little like forest fires, like every day.

00;06;39;24 – 00;06;57;10

Dr. Mona

Oh, I love that. And that’s exactly it. I mean, I think so many parents are more reactive than preventive, right? I mean, we and that’s you can’t you can’t prepare your child for everything. I mean, the goal here and I know, you know, this is that we’re not trying to, like, set our kids up, that they’re never going to have a meltdown and that they’re never going to do this.

00;06;57;12 – 00;07;16;28

Dr. Mona

That’s not realistic at all. But giving the example of my son, who is very sensory sensitive to noise and light, I know that when we travel, we have to be really aware of the fact that if there’s a lot of light in that room and it’s like, it’s not like he has to have pitch black, but if there’s a nightlight in there, I’m gonna have to take out that nightlight.

00;07;17;03 – 00;07;36;14

Dr. Mona

I can leave it in there, but he’s just going to stare at that nightlight the entire night. And it sounds small, but I’m trying to protect his sleep. And a small switch to protect your child’s sleep is not being over accommodating. It’s just understanding that your child and even like myself. Right? I mean, I think I also don’t like sound when I sleep.

00;07;36;14 – 00;07;53;10

Dr. Mona

I don’t like lights when I sleep. I think it really opened up an understanding of my child, but also myself. And I think you your work as a neurodivergent educator, but also being neurodivergent yourself, raising a neurodivergent child has opened up your realization of how important that is. This is to.

00;07;53;10 – 00;08;19;03

Laura Petix

Yes, I think a lot of parents, adults, teachers, educators don’t realize how much we accommodate for ourselves already. And they’re they’re they’re focusing on like, don’t accommodate your kid. It’s going to they’re going to become spoiled. They’re going to be dependent on it. And I’m like, think about your day and how much you do and manipulate and change your schedule and set up in your house, in your room, in your bathroom so that you’re comfortable, that is accommodating yourself.

00;08;19;03 – 00;08;45;27

Laura Petix

And imagine someone took one of those things out or changed it and said, you don’t need this because the real world isn’t like this, and suddenly your sleep routine is thrown off. Your morning routine is thrown off, and our kids, they can’t just make these accommodations happen themselves and they don’t even know to ask for them. So if we can learn about it, teach them about what works for their body, and help them access those accommodations or make them happen, I’m going to do that because that’s what’s going to help them function best at home and at school.

00;08;45;29 – 00;09;07;07

Dr. Mona

Oh, we’re already getting into so much juicy good goodness from the book. But I want to, you know, obviously ask more questions because I’m assuming a lot of the listeners are either parents or maybe professionals. I mean, that’s our goal, right? We want to spread this information. So that, like you said, getting clinicians on the side of OTS to understand why it’s useful, to recommend notes and what work that you all do.

00;09;07;10 – 00;09;29;07

Dr. Mona

One thing that I want to start with is a really basic question, because I think this is where a lot of parents, myself included, probably have made mistakes. We have learned growing up that there’s five senses, but there are actually eight. I’m aware now. Right? Yes. What are the three senses that parents are usually missing and how do they show up in everyday life?

00;09;29;10 – 00;09;34;25

Laura Petix

Yeah. Okay. So everyone who’s listening right now, as long as you’re not driving, if you close your eyes.

00;09;34;28 – 00;09;36;15

Dr. Mona

Good. Your head. Yeah.

00;09;36;15 – 00;09;59;28

Laura Petix

Good, good. Preface. Don’t move while you’re driving. Close your eyes. Tilt your head to the left and to the right, and maybe even go in a circle. If you can tilt your head backward and then open your eyes. If you feel a little dizziness or disorientation or you feel that kind of like lagging sensation of motion, that’s your vestibular sense.

00;10;00;00 – 00;10;16;16

Laura Petix

This is when you’re on an airplane. Maybe you can’t see the horizon because you’re not by the window seat, and the person next to you doesn’t have the window up, because why do people not put the window up at takeoff and landing? I’m sorry, that’s a big issue for me. But if you could see so orientation of the plane, you can’t see the orientation of the plane.

00;10;16;16 – 00;10;36;05

Laura Petix

You still know the position of your body. You can still tell that the plane is tilting a little to the right or little to the left, because your vestibular system is activated. So these are receptors in your inner ear, and they inform your brain about the position and movement of your head against gravity. And this helps us balance.

00;10;36;05 – 00;10;59;26

Laura Petix

It helps us right our body. If we’re about to fall off, it helps us, sit upright for our posture. This is a huge developmental center that helps provide information for body awareness and coordination and balance and also regulation. Now, if everyone were to now take your hands, clasped them together and push against them really hard.

00;10;59;29 – 00;11;01;15

Dr. Mona

If you’re not holding anything, you’re driving.

00;11;01;15 – 00;11;03;19

Laura Petix

I love that as long as you’re not holding on.

00;11;03;21 – 00;11;06;08

Dr. Mona

To every drop, the baby. Don’t be dry.

00;11;06;10 – 00;11;34;24

Laura Petix

Don’t let go of the steering wheel. Push against your hands and then let go. You have activated your proprioceptive sense, so proprioception is the they’re the receptors that are in your muscles and tendons and joints. And they send information to your brain about your whole body’s position in space. So if vestibular was just your head’s position in space, the proprioceptive receptors are your entire body’s position in space.

00;11;34;28 – 00;11;56;18

Laura Petix

So if you were to reach out for a soda can at the end of your desk and you didn’t know whether it was full or completely empty, you have to judge the distance to reach out and grab it. And then you have to know how much force to use to grab the can if it’s full, let’s say a Capri Sun, because that’s those those guys, those are the squirt with like the tiniest little bit of squeeze, right?

00;11;56;20 – 00;12;10;20

Laura Petix

If you don’t know how full it is, if you put too much pressure, it’s going to squirt all of the juice out. Right. If but if you don’t know how full it is, you might have to adjust it. Either way, push a little too hard to make sure you can grab it or put a little less pressure.

00;12;10;24 – 00;12;34;10

Laura Petix

And then when you lift it up to bring it to your mouth, you have to use the appropriate amount of force to lift it up so you don’t like throw it over your head. All of that information in that moment, the weight of the Capri Sun or the weight of the soda can gives your brain information about your body’s position in space and how fast and or how slow and how exactly to move it to your body to take a drink.

00;12;34;10 – 00;13;11;03

Laura Petix

So proprioception is responsible for body awareness and coordination as well, in conjunction with vestibular sense. And it’s also the sense that provides really, intense or good, I would say powerful regulation. And for, for folks, this is the one sensory system that I don’t see a clinical representation of someone being oversensitive to proprioception. So that’s always one that OTS use as like a first response to kids who are dysregulated, because it’s pretty universal.

00;13;11;03 – 00;13;35;08

Laura Petix

Once you can find the right strategy. And then the last sense, if everyone thinks about what it feels like when you are anxious, whatever that feels like in your body, wherever you hold it in your body and how it feels for me, it’s my heart pounding. My chest gets a little tight sometimes I get heat like my like I get flushed and I feel like the heat from the inside of my body, even though I’m not sweating.

00;13;35;10 – 00;14;05;24

Laura Petix

Those are entero ception sensation. So it’s that our internal awareness of our body. So it’s, when our heart is pounding or when we’re hungry or when we’re full, when we feel our stomach, kind of contracting when we have to go to the bathroom, when we are fatigue and when we experience pain, when we see that feel that drop in our if we say, oh, my heart dropped that like physical sensation in your body when you’re scared or worried.

00;14;05;27 – 00;14;24;08

Laura Petix

Those are interception sensations. And we often talk about that as the missing link to emotional regulation because there are interception sensations and, that happen when you experience an emotion. So those are the three extra ones and they’re very important. As you can imagine.

00;14;24;10 – 00;14;42;08

Dr. Mona

It’s so important I, I love that and I know you’re you know, you go into that in the book because like you just mentioned, we think so much of the five senses, which okay, I can see, I can smell all that stuff, touch, taste. But this is also just very important for emotional regulation. Like you said, it has to do with meltdowns.

00;14;42;08 – 00;15;03;21

Dr. Mona

It has to do with why they may not eat, why they may not want to poop in the toilet. The three things that we talked about the beginning that so many parents can struggle with and just be confused when like general guidance, you know, education, guidance, whatever is not working. If you could give parents one reason why every body should understand their child’s sensory code, what would it be?

00;15;03;23 – 00;15;05;29

Dr. Mona

Okay.

00;15;06;01 – 00;15;14;03

Dr. Mona

Now let’s take a quick break to hear from our sponsors who support helps us keep bringing you this show.

00;15;14;05 – 00;15;43;22

Laura Petix

Because it’s going to help you better understand their behavior and create change that’s more long lasting. Because I think as parents, if we don’t understand the sensory systems participation and behavior, which happens, as we mentioned, not just for neurodivergent kids, but everybody with a nervous system responds to sensory input in some way. Right. And so if we are only targeting the behavior at the surface level, it’s going to be short term solutions.

00;15;43;24 – 00;16;12;08

Laura Petix

It might not be pleasant. You might be doing or saying some things that don’t even really align with how you want to be. But you read our response on Instagram post that you’re supposed to do this one behavioral strategy or say this one behavioral thing. It it’s it’s more of a surface level kind of Band-Aid. And using sensory strategies, understanding your child’s sensory code is really more of a bottom up support system, which is like, supporting them from like the roots up.

00;16;12;08 – 00;16;21;15

Laura Petix

So that behavior just becomes easier on its own without you having to even specifically talk about or address that specific behavior.

00;16;21;17 – 00;16;44;02

Dr. Mona

And that’s what this is all about, right? Like we said at the beginning, we’re not trying to prevent behaviors from happening. We’re trying to give our children the best fighting chance with their nervous system. Right. Like what you’re saying? Like, my kid is wired this way. I’m wire this way. You mentioned earlier about how even me and you have accommodations that we may have already created from our childhood or just our life that we don’t even realize.

00;16;44;02 – 00;17;07;06

Dr. Mona

Like, our kids can have that, too. Rather it turning into, oh my gosh, why are they melting down again? How come all the time? How come you’re not like your sister? You know, I, I remember finding ourselves like my, my husband would get so concerned with my, my son’s really big, volatile emotions. Right. He’s very happy. But then when he’s upset, it was like Doctor Jekyll, Mr. Hyde.

00;17;07;07 – 00;17;29;26

Dr. Mona

Like that’s what we strive to does. And I am actually the same way. And, you know, I’d love to kind of dive into that interception. You know, the one, sense that you mentioned. Let’s dive into that more because I feel like, you know, that that one really ties in, like you said, too emotional regulation. Do you have an example of maybe a behavior that a parent thought was like their kid being bad?

00;17;30;01 – 00;17;37;07

Dr. Mona

That actually might be a child who’s struggling with interception and how we could have helped that child in a sensory code way.

00;17;37;09 – 00;18;07;11

Laura Petix

Yes. So this is an example that I think many parents will relate to. If you have a kid who is described as, quote, a sore loser who cannot tolerate losing any sort of game, whether it’s a game that has to do with chance, rolling a dice or if it’s a strategy based game, anything where your child immediately erupts and you’re just like, I can’t ever play games with them because it always ends like this and they’re a sore loser.

00;18;07;11 – 00;18;30;08

Laura Petix

They can’t handle it. So what I want to help parents understand is that the emotion of losing a game, especially around peers, siblings. If you have a very competitive family or group of people you’re playing with, you’re not only dealing with maybe like disappointment from not winning, but there’s this other emotion, that I feel like is not talked about enough.

00;18;30;08 – 00;18;57;19

Laura Petix

With kids. We talk about anxiety, anger, sadness, excitement, but embarrassment. This feeling of being embarrassed, which for me is a huge emotion, which is why an inside out there depiction of that character, the huge, the gigantic pink like elephant with, I don’t think this elephant a this huge character that was like trying to hide like that is such a good depiction of what embarrassment feels like.

00;18;57;19 – 00;19;22;24

Laura Petix

It’s a bigger than life sensation that you but you want to disappear internally. Embarrassment for me lit. My face feels so hot. I feel like, something in my stomach. These sensations for kids who might have a sensitivity to interception just like you could be sensitive to sounds. Just like you can be sensitive to bright lights. Kids can be sensitive to interception.

00;19;22;24 – 00;19;53;08

Laura Petix

So those sensations, the feeling of their heart pounding, the flushing of their face, the tightness in their stomach, their nervous system might perceive that strong as like more strong and intense than other people. And that could be what sets their nervous system off into fight or flight. Not necessarily the losing the game, but the sensation in their body that that feels like a panic, like danger to their nervous system as like fight or flight, fight or flight, fight or flight.

00;19;53;14 – 00;20;09;29

Laura Petix

Throw the board game taught. Scream, hit your sister, call everyone cheaters and liars and not fair. All of those things for some kids can be coming from an entire receptive, sensation being overwhelmed by that.

00;20;10;02 – 00;20;23;29

Dr. Mona

This is so fascinating and like this book is one that I should probably give to my parents. Like, I feel like everything you’re describing, my dad is a very sore loser, and I think he probably is neurodivergent. I don’t know if I told you this, but I recently have confirmed that my mom has ADHD.

00;20;23;29 – 00;20;25;13

Laura Petix

Like I didn’t know.

00;20;25;13 – 00;20;46;23

Dr. Mona

That, like, I okay, I was like, I think from a long part of my life, I was like, mom, why aren’t you ever listening? And why are you always interrupting? And why don’t you stop and listen? And I’m like, oh my God, she has ADHD and my. But this is like so important to hear because, you know, we we often can think that again, you mentioned earlier that okay, we’re accommodating.

00;20;46;23 – 00;21;07;04

Dr. Mona

We’re being too nice. But the strategies that you are discussing and I would love to hear what you would do in that situation for a child understanding that there like that, it can help whether you know, your child’s neurodivergent, whether they’re not. This is stuff that just helps everybody. And so leading into that, how would you respond in that situation then based on what you answer?

00;21;07;06 – 00;21;08;22

Dr. Mona

I would love to add on to that.

00;21;08;24 – 00;21;32;09

Laura Petix

Yeah. Yeah. So there’s going to be two things here where we’re when we’re already in the moment versus like preparing for the moment or after the moment, which is sort of how I talk about meltdowns in in the book, there’s a before, during, after and between when you’re in the moment, the best thing that you can do is try to limit the sensory stimulation in the environment already.

00;21;32;09 – 00;21;36;08

Laura Petix

So that means not adding more verbal, what are you doing? We said that’s.

00;21;36;08 – 00;21;36;22

Dr. Mona

Fine.

00;21;36;22 – 00;22;00;12

Laura Petix

Let’s it’s just if you can recognize it, you yourself as a caregiver, take a breath, step back from the table. The board game I would maybe turn off the overhead lights if those bad lights are on. Nobody likes overhead lights. We need to ban those. And, right. If it’s if you guys listen to music while you’re playing the game, like try to limit the, the, the sensory information from the environment.

00;22;00;12 – 00;22;17;13

Laura Petix

That’s, that’s the lowest hanging fruit that you can do in the moment. That might make a little bit of room in your child’s nervous system. Right. And then you kind of go into damage control mode depending on how angry or how disruptive your child’s behaviors are. If they’re throwing stuff, we’re going to want to, stop that from happening.

00;22;17;15 – 00;22;41;06

Laura Petix

Put things away from them. It’s really more like damage control at that at that point and trying to minimize, harm on them or others. But what I would do moving forward and before that, if I knew my child was sensitive to those interception sensations. Step one is I would name this for them and explain that that’s what happens and say, do you ever notice, like what?

00;22;41;06 – 00;23;12;27

Laura Petix

I am losing a game. I start to feel my stomach kind of feel tight, like right around here and I’m pointing to it. Do you notice something in your body and trying to get concrete with what they notice when they’re feeling that emotion? If they say, yeah, my face gets really hot or my fingers get tingly, whatever it is, we’re going to say, oh, that’s what you notice when your body is losing a game or feeling upset, or your ears get hot, then what I would do is try to find a sensory strategy that can directly address that sensation.

00;23;12;27 – 00;23;38;10

Laura Petix

So here’s what I mean by that. When my face gets overheated and I feel embarrassed, the one thing that can cancel that out is cool my body down. I will take a cooling fan. I will get some cold water, hold some ice cubes, literally just cool my body down in order to calm my nervous system. If I have tingling hands, I might need to like open and close my hands, shake them out, give them a squeeze, squeeze a fidget really hard.

00;23;38;13 – 00;24;04;16

Laura Petix

Maybe have one of those ouchy fidget at spikes, some sort of input to the hands. So we want to get concrete with the the sensations our kids are noticing. So we need to help guide them to that. And I would explore that with them. And then if we find a tool that works, let’s say it’s a fidget that they squeeze really hard or it’s like, a sound that they need to hear or a flavor that helps reset their mouth when they feel like they want to yell.

00;24;04;18 – 00;24;36;18

Laura Petix

Maybe we put a, a, bowl of like, crunchy mints or something that they need right next to them. That will be a visual reminder. Okay, on your next turn, I want you to take a bite of the mint, and we’re all going to take a deep breath. And then you’re going to roll and have your turn. So we’re like proactively giving them the support tools that would hopefully address or prevent, the sensation that they might feel if that, that roll spin didn’t go as they wanted.

00;24;36;20 – 00;24;53;07

Dr. Mona

I love that answer and exactly what you know, saying I wanted to add on, I think what you just described never did I hear anything which we would always recommend to all children is shaming them for that moment, saying, why are you like this? You know, I think, yes. What happens is sometimes we think, and I know I’ve discussed this with you.

00;24;53;07 – 00;25;12;25

Dr. Mona

Sometimes we think our older child especially should act a certain way. And I know I’ve been guilty of that too. And my husband has as well, where we will look at our six year old and say, you know better. Like, you know that you shouldn’t be doing that. Like you’re six years old, like in our head. And sometimes it’s been verbalized, but always a reminder there is that there’s still learning.

00;25;12;25 – 00;25;38;14

Dr. Mona

And also when they’re dysregulated, when maybe they have this interception making them feel completely dysregulated, they may not be doing what we know them to be capable of doing. And I think that’s a reality. And I think oftentimes as parents, this is one of my big things, too. We often see the crying, the like yelling like some big reaction as dysregulation, when in reality it can be all this precursor.

00;25;38;14 – 00;26;04;21

Dr. Mona

Right. You just mentioned like feeling uncomfortable, like feeling your heart racing or feeling sweaty palms. How nerve wracking can that be? You know, I I’ve been there too. And recognizing that can prevent the meltdown from happening maybe like in the future. Right. Like knowing that. Right. And it’s like it’s and that’s what I felt with Ryan. You know, I there was a moment that we actually had over the weekend where we were watching Coco, the the Pixar movie.

00;26;04;24 – 00;26;21;18

Dr. Mona

And Ryan is very sensitive, like as in my like two movies, like he will cry in movies and I don’t know why because we are very open to feelings in our house. But we were watching, and I realized later that my husband tends to be a little more like, why are you crying than I am? Like when we watch movies together.

00;26;21;18 – 00;26;39;20

Dr. Mona

I let him cry, but my husband was in the room and he’s wonderful. But he has a little more of that, you know? Hey, like, what are you doing? Yeah. And and so she he started crying and he got really ashamed of the crying. And he hid himself in the pillow, and he just got in. Then he got very dysregulated, like screaming, crying.

00;26;39;20 – 00;26;57;22

Dr. Mona

And I was like, what just happened here? And it was probably that interception that was coming on of, like, feeling uneasy and like not knowing what to do in a, in an environment that may not be 100% safe for that, but we got through it. But that’s just an example of like what you just mentioned of like a normal situation that people may be like, why are they acting like this?

00;26;57;22 – 00;27;07;09

Dr. Mona

Why are they crying? Why are they losing over a board game and losing their mind and how we can support them? And I think that’s so important because it can help so many children and adults quit on this.

00;27;07;16 – 00;27;27;19

Laura Petix

And, you know, the adults that feel that way, like when they’re like, why are they crying? Why are they freaking out about that? That is also about our own. Your husbands, our experience with our interception sensation, because we’re uncomfortable with seeing someone cry when we’re not like that, that why are they crying, am I am I supposed to make them feel better about that?

00;27;27;19 – 00;27;50;01

Laura Petix

Okay, well, now I’m distracted from the movie. Why? Why are they having such a big reaction? Those thoughts and questions are are our cognitive in our brain? But in our body you might feel some sort of interception sensation. And adults don’t like feeling uncomfortable. And most of us did not learn these tools growing up on how to regulate our nervous system.

00;27;50;01 – 00;28;10;17

Laura Petix

So when we feel uncomfortable, we want to make it stop. But when the thing to stop is our kids behavior, then we just put all of the responsibility on them. Hey, you stop crying because I’m uncomfortable and I don’t know how to regulate my own nervous system because I wasn’t taught. So I’m just going to blame you for being six and blame your behavior and say that you need to stop that.

00;28;10;17 – 00;28;32;13

Laura Petix

Like that’s an I 1,000%. Anyone listening? I just made these mistakes this weekend. I asked my daughter, please don’t cry like it’s not a big deal. Just we’re going to move on. Just please, please don’t cry like I literally asked for that. And having this conversation with you, I’m like preaching the opposite. Like it is human nature to want to just stop the sounds, stop the discomfort when it’s outside of our body.

00;28;32;13 – 00;28;35;27

Laura Petix

But like when it’s our own body, we don’t even know how to handle that.

00;28;35;29 – 00;28;54;01

Dr. Mona

Yeah, and especially a child when they’re having these big feelings that are not necessarily in their head, but in their body, like, yeah, like, you know, obviously like you’re mentioning like the heart racing, the palms sweating. They’re like, I just I think there was an Eminem lyric that I just said, yeah, my mom’s body also sweaty. I was like, how spaghetti mouth feel like ready?

00;28;54;04 – 00;28;58;21

Dr. Mona

Yeah, go. I just did that. I was like, wait a minute, I’m a lyrical mastermind right now. No. Okay.

00;28;58;21 – 00;29;30;18

Laura Petix

But but what you were saying, what you’re saying about, you know, better, so you shouldn’t be doing that. But I also say to like, I know better and I snap at my husband, I slam a door. I say words that I shouldn’t say, I respond to to haters in the comments, and I know better. But it’s like in that moment, if I had a bad day, if my coffee wasn’t just right, if I’m overheating at that moment, if I’ve got if I’m dysregulated, I know I shouldn’t do certain things and I still do it.

00;29;30;18 – 00;29;58;10

Laura Petix

So of course, these kids who have only had their brains for less than a decade, also can’t be perfect, right? So, like, it’s it’s this kind of knowledge of our own nervous system, that and addition also to our kids. But but knowing both of how our nervous systems work can make a very big, impactful change on our relationships and dynamics with parents and teachers and anyone else.

00;29;58;13 – 00;30;18;04

Dr. Mona

Now, let’s take a quick break to hear from our sponsors who support helps us keep bringing you this show. Oh yeah, what we need to do about this, you know, well, you know, you mentioned about getting into the comment section with trolls. We really need to take a playbook out of Taylor Swift’s, you know, a page. Yeah, I took a page out of Taylor Swift’s playbook and, like, just turn it into music.

00;30;18;04 – 00;30;19;12

Dr. Mona

And so that’s right.

00;30;19;12 – 00;30;24;02

Laura Petix

If I was if I was as creative as her, I would totally do something like like I’m like, she.

00;30;24;02 – 00;30;30;00

Dr. Mona

Literally just does, like every song is like, here’s for you on all You Hate about for thanks for funding. Thanks for funding me. I really.

00;30;30;00 – 00;30;41;18

Laura Petix

Appreciate it. Yeah. I mean, if I could take it’s hard enough to just not respond hard enough. If I give it any energy, it’s always like negative and I need it. I want to like stop doing that. But it’s so hard.

00;30;41;21 – 00;30;59;17

Dr. Mona

Well, you just mentioned it beautifully that our our bodies do not want to feel uncomfortable and we’re going to do anything to make the uncomfortable stop, even if it means that. And like you just triggered a fight or flight and you triggered your fight, right? Like you’re like, I’m getting there. And I mean, that’s exactly what we’re we’re wanting to teach our kids that you are about to get into fight or flight.

00;30;59;17 – 00;31;17;27

Dr. Mona

Like, I can sense it’s happening. So I want to help you. It’s either, you know, fight, flight, freeze, fun, whatever it’s going to be. But it’s a beautiful thing that we can have the sensory code to say, my kid is this way. And to this point, you know, I have two very different kids. And I know I’ve spoken to you about this, Laura, like my son, he.

00;31;17;27 – 00;31;38;12

Dr. Mona

If you know, he’s very different. My daughter wants me to explain everything. She wants me to talk. She wants me to be in her face and hug her. Where my son. Same goal of, like, helping him through a feeling. But he wants a little bit of space. He wants me to stop talking because he’s sensory sensitive. And so it’s so important for you to know that no two kids are the same.

00;31;38;12 – 00;31;49;24

Dr. Mona

And I think you writing this book is so valuable because you give parents this tool to say, here’s what you need to know about your kid and how we’re all wired differently. And that’s just going to help so many people.

00;31;49;27 – 00;32;31;20

Laura Petix

Yeah, no, I agree. I think that it’s important for parents to understand each of their kids brains and behavior, but also like teaching the whole family and teaching the breadth. Yeah, teaching Ryan about Vera’s nervous system and hers about his. Because then that that stops you from having to play a referee or constantly explaining Ryan’s needs to Vera and Vera constantly complaining about why Ryan won’t play with her or is too quiet like we want the siblings and the friends and the neighbors and the classmates to understand these differences around them so that it has to be less of them, like judging others or feeling slighted by someone’s behavior, and really just having the same

00;32;31;20 – 00;32;50;13

Laura Petix

language to say, my sensory cup is full today, or I’m just needing a little bit more movement, or I’m going to step outside because I need a little bit of bright light to wake my body up. I’m not ignoring you. I’m not running away. I just need this and having this collective understanding that there are differences among us that would make a huge difference.

00;32;50;15 – 00;33;08;18

Dr. Mona

Right? And I mean, it comes down to what you said, that word right there, communication like so much of. Yeah, the the problems we have, I think as human beings is that we just don’t communicate effectively in a large part of that subset is that we don’t know how to communicate with certain people’s communication needs. I mean, everyone’s different and we we try to think that they have to be like us.

00;33;08;18 – 00;33;27;14

Dr. Mona

And I’ve learned that in marriage. I’ve learned that with my children. In that same moment where Ryan was crying, Vera was like just staring, like, okay. And I’m like, it’s just supposed to show you, right? Two kids in the same household, same parents, and one of them just wants to melt down and cry when Mama Coco is starting to sing and like, yeah, I am bawling too, by the way.

00;33;27;14 – 00;33;28;08

Dr. Mona

Like I’m literally.

00;33;28;08 – 00;33;28;21

Laura Petix

Bawling.

00;33;28;21 – 00;33;29;18

Dr. Mona

Yeah, it’s a very.

00;33;29;18 – 00;33;32;12

Laura Petix

Emotional day for sure.

00;33;32;15 – 00;33;54;29

Dr. Mona

Well, you know, one thing I want to go into which a lot of parents can feel frustrated with is that child who’s constantly moving, crashing, climbing, chewing, wrestling, and going back to your comment that parents just sometimes want to stop the behavior because it’s a regulating for them, because all that is like distraction and just regulating what might that child’s body be asking for?

00;33;55;01 – 00;34;04;12

Dr. Mona

And maybe going back to the three extra, you know, senses that we had chatted about? And what can parents actually do with that information of that child is just constantly moving and pushing.

00;34;04;12 – 00;34;23;01

Laura Petix

Yeah. So the first thing I want parents to understand is that sensory seekers or people who are just kids, who are constantly moving and climbing, like you mentioned, this is like, imagine you had chickenpox or this like, rash. I we’re dealing with with mosquitoes all over our body here in Southern California. So we’re being the way we’re being eaten alive.

00;34;23;04 – 00;34;41;13

Laura Petix

But imagine someone was like, put gloves over your fingers and, like, taped them behind your back and said you cannot scratch any of the itches on your body. What might your behavior look like? Right? You might start turning red, you might sweat, you might be bullying around. You might like, find any hard surface and scratch against it.

00;34;41;18 – 00;34;59;05

Laura Petix

You will do whatever it takes to scratch the itch, or you’re going to be extremely uncomfortable and you’re not. You’re not going to be happy or not be able to have a conversation. You’re not going to just be like going throughout your day. It’s going to be constantly taking up space in your brain. It’s one of those two options.

00;34;59;05 – 00;35;23;22

Laura Petix

You don’t just magically stop being itchy because someone tells you that you can’t itch. So that’s the same way that I want parents and teachers to think about these sensory seekers and what they’re the senses that they might be seeking are primarily probably vestibular, which is that movement sense. The kids who are constantly spinning, running through the room, hanging upside down from things, or the kids that are climbing and jumping and squeezing.

00;35;23;22 – 00;35;47;00

Laura Petix

Those kids are seeking that proprioceptive input. So if the behavior itself is dangerous to that child or a potential danger to their surrounding or people around it, yes, we want to try to find a safer alternative to allow that to happen if it’s safe, not harming anyone. But it’s maybe just like annoying you.

00;35;47;02 – 00;35;48;15

Dr. Mona

Yeah, you might like.

00;35;48;15 – 00;36;05;04

Laura Petix

Because it happens to me, hasn’t it? They can. She just. Can you just stop moving right in like. Well, she’s not in our line of vision. She’s over to the side like, no, she’s not going to stop moving. She’s safe. She’s doing practicing our cartwheels. Like, she sounds like that’s a huge problem, right? Like, put your blinders up.

00;36;05;04 – 00;36;29;14

Laura Petix

Like, turn your back like. No. So it’s it’s always understanding that it’s our collective responsibility in the house. That’s a shared space. Same with a classroom to allow people to be as comfortable as they can. We’re not always going to be able to meet every single person’s needs 100% of the time, in every single space, but it shouldn’t always be the sensory seeker, the sensory avoider, the kid with sensory needs.

00;36;29;14 – 00;36;53;18

Laura Petix

It shouldn’t always be there, responsible to like, conform and be quiet and like not seen. And it’s why can’t other people find ways to also regulate themselves? While our friend, brother, sister, classmate is getting the movement they need. So as parents and teachers, we can allow the behavior that’s happening or or contain it to a certain part of the room or create a safer way for it to happen.

00;36;53;18 – 00;37;22;00

Laura Petix

Like, maybe you do have the resources to put up a pull up bar for them to hang from, or even a rock wall in some people’s houses, or a inflatable jumping pad on the side. However, you can see your child’s behavior and recognize this is what they need right now to be able to get through this evening routine, I’m going to try to allow it to happen in a regulated and safe way, rather than just say, can you just sit still and like, not move?

00;37;22;03 – 00;37;41;01

Dr. Mona

I love your analogy about the mosquito bite. And I got the image of the friends episode with, Phoebe and, her boyfriend, the marine guy. Like, we both have it, right? You’re saying them and they they got their things wrapped up, and they were, like, rubbing, rubbing up against each other because they’re like, you get creative.

00;37;41;04 – 00;37;57;16

Laura Petix

You get creative. So you if your kid is chewing on something, you take away the pencil. They’re going to chew on their nail, they’re going to chew on something else like the the need to chew doesn’t go away. But if you don’t let them have something to chew, you’re gonna notice it in their behavior. So you and if you should be okay with one or the other.

00;37;57;16 – 00;38;12;16

Dr. Mona

And if you’re a little nerdy, I mean, it’s like physics, right? Energy has to go somewhere since either it’s either going to go into their behavior like you said, like just getting it, like emotionally irritated or it’s going to go into physical. So if you don’t want it to become emotional with a meltdown, let them move.

00;38;12;19 – 00;38;29;04

Laura Petix

This is the kid in front of you. This is how their brain works. Are you either going to work with it or against it, but you better be ready for the consequences and be okay with that. And I will say, as a parent, there are some times I cannot meet my daughter’s needs for whatever reason, whether we’re traveling or we’re out an event.

00;38;29;06 – 00;38;48;14

Laura Petix

And I still know that I want to go and we’re going to be there longer. I just have to mentally say she’s probably going to be dysregulated. I cannot save her from this right now. We’re not going to be home for another two hours. It is hot. I didn’t bring enough cold things. Oh man, she’s going to be miserable and I can’t hold that against her.

00;38;48;14 – 00;38;57;11

Laura Petix

I know why she’s going to be like this. And then I just prepare myself. So when I can’t meet her needs, when I can’t address the environment, I address my expectation.

00;38;57;11 – 00;39;14;17

Dr. Mona

And I love that. And that’s that in itself can help prevent the power struggles that so many parents struggle with when we’re dealing with this. Right? Because the power struggle, I always say it takes two to tango. So like you now have put this pressure expectation on your child to act a certain way. Yeah, you you power struggle with them.

00;39;14;17 – 00;39;19;09

Dr. Mona

And nobody wants to be the recipient on the receiving side of a power struggle. And then it just becomes this.

00;39;19;09 – 00;39;26;22

Laura Petix

And like, it’s like what? The tug of war you’re both tugging. If you let go, they’re just going to like, fall down and there’s no more there’s no more support.

00;39;26;24 – 00;39;36;20

Dr. Mona

Right? Yeah. And no, it’s so true that it ends up being, like you said beautifully, that we have to just check ourselves before we wreck ourselves. I’m just like a wrap. Like I’m asking a lot of this is.

00;39;36;23 – 00;39;50;15

Laura Petix

That is like, so ADHD coded. You have no idea. Like I am functioning. I say my life is a musical. I was breakout and just based off of like two words. My husband or daughter saying they like roll their eyes, that they’re like not everything is a song.

00;39;50;15 – 00;40;09;17

Dr. Mona

I’m like, yes, but it but it is. Yeah. No interception is. I keep going back to that. I know you already. We talked about the vestibular and the proprioceptive with the movement that we just mentioned going back to interception, I would imagine then, and I don’t know if a lot of our listeners know this, that there’s probably a deep connection into like feeding, like picky eating, knowing, knowing fullness cues.

00;40;09;17 – 00;40;16;11

Dr. Mona

So children who may struggle with interception may also may not understand their hunger and fullness cues. Is that right?

00;40;16;13 – 00;40;39;20

Laura Petix

That’s right. And you can see it on both sides. So you can see kids who have a really high threshold for interception, which means that they need more interception signals for the brain to recognize it than other people. And so if they have a high threshold for their hunger signals, they might not recognize when they’re hungry. So they don’t.

00;40;39;20 – 00;41;03;04

Laura Petix

There are kids who never say they’re hungry. And I’ve spoken to enough families to to know that this is true because I can’t relate. I feel like my kid is very low threshold for interception when she’s all at the tiniest spark of a rumble in her tummy. It’s immediate. I’m hungry. I need food now and then. She’s also very low threshold for her fullness cues, so she only eats a little bit.

00;41;03;04 – 00;41;25;11

Laura Petix

And then as soon as she feels a little satiated, I’m full. I can’t eat another bite. So she’s constantly grazing because she’s sensitive to hunger, and then she’s also sensitive to fullness. And it doesn’t feel good to be too hungry or too full. She always just wants to be kind of just right. But you can have kids who eat, who might overeat because they don’t recognize their fullness cues until they might get sick.

00;41;25;13 – 00;41;36;09

Laura Petix

They might make themselves so sick because they don’t recognize when to stop. Or you have kids who are fainting or passing out because they forget to drink water or food, because they’re not recognizing their bodies hunger signals.

00;41;36;16 – 00;42;02;17

Dr. Mona

Fascinating. And I see that too personally in that situation. You know, because we always talk up, there’s a lot of advice around like routine, providing safe foods, providing opportunity. You know, we can’t be in their body, obviously. So how can we support them? Is it through reminders like, hey, you know, here’s your water, take it with you. Is it through scheduled meals and snacks and opportunities like how can we help teach them about that interception?

00;42;02;19 – 00;42;17;08

Laura Petix

I think this is a really tricky area because like you said, we want to give our kids autonomy. We are not everybody’s. I can’t tell if my daughter is hungry or full. I also can’t tell if she’s cold, even though I’m like, put a jacket on, it’s so cold outside, you should be cold. But she’s like, I’m not cold, right?

00;42;17;08 – 00;42;35;01

Laura Petix

It’s it’s their experience. But at the same time we have to actually think of like safety and health. Like, I don’t want my kid to be dehydrated and they’re not going to remember to drink water. So for now, I do need to put a schedule in the sense of reminding them to take sips of water or put like little markers on their water bottle.

00;42;35;06 – 00;42;54;18

Laura Petix

However, it may look where even if you’re not thirsty, I need you to take a sip of this at least every couple of hours. Because if you don’t, you know there are some dangerous repercussions there. Like, that’s always going to be first and foremost, I would say the same with food, but it’s very tricky because if they’re not noticing their hunger cues like how many times do you want to eat if you’re not hungry?

00;42;54;18 – 00;43;16;28

Laura Petix

Like just the thought of food sometimes just doesn’t sit well for you. So for those kids, you might need little snacks and make sure that those snacks have as much attention for those things if you can. And I also know there might be families listening to this who have kids who are extremely selective eaters, and they only eat five things and they’re only grazing for those kids.

00;43;17;01 – 00;43;48;01

Laura Petix

Let them eat what they will eat as often as they can, like they just need the sheer calories for energy, especially if it’s something like at school. You might have some more creativity at home with what you feed them and how often. But if you’re if they’re out of your care and they’re at school or a summer camp or somewhere where you can’t be there, you need to make foods and snacks accessible to them and talk to the teacher or the camp counselor and say, hey, my kid doesn’t really eat to their fullness for breakfast, lunch, or dinner.

00;43;48;09 – 00;43;59;19

Laura Petix

They need access to these safe snacks. How can we make that happen? And it’s having those conversations, I think, in the meantime to make sure that our kids are safe and as well-fed as possible when they’re not in our care.

00;43;59;21 – 00;44;02;11

Dr. Mona

Another reason why we need to know the sensory code.

00;44;02;11 – 00;44;03;13

Laura Petix

So, you know, that’s exactly.

00;44;03;13 – 00;44;15;01

Dr. Mona

Right for because how would you know? Right. Like, I mean, yes, that’s so, so true. And I from a medical perspective, you know, for everyone listening, obviously we’re not going to do a whole episode on picky eating right now because there’s so many layers. We know that.

00;44;15;08 – 00;44;15;25

Laura Petix

There’s yes.

00;44;15;25 – 00;44;40;05

Dr. Mona

There’s connection between neurodivergent like, you know, children with autism and yet restrictive food texture. I mean, there’s so many reasons why so much a child might not be eating. So I don’t like just using that one reason. But this is important to kind of understand, and I, I think we never really hear about interception when we think about eating, when, you know, we think, okay, I’m not going to pressure my kid, which is still an important, in my opinion, rule that we don’t want to like force food.

00;44;40;07 – 00;44;58;13

Dr. Mona

We can’t force food down their throat, but we can offer and give them something like you said, that we know that they’re going to to like, not freaking out so much on the fact that my kid is only eating tomatoes right now and not wanting to eat the eggs like my daughter. Hero is literally only eating tomatoes for breakfast every day, and she’s like, I want tomatoes and cheese.

00;44;58;13 – 00;45;19;05

Dr. Mona

I’m like, you know what? You be Italian. You eat your tomatoes and cheese. I’ll put a little balsamic on it. You do that girl like, I don’t want to. Yeah, force her out of like, just thinking that she should be eating a certain amount. But I it’s such good advice and I think yeah, naming the interception was so key because I don’t think people realize it when they listen to this.

00;45;19;07 – 00;45;26;29

Dr. Mona

Now let’s take a quick break to hear from our sponsors who support helps us keep bringing you this show.

00;45;27;02 – 00;45;41;01

Laura Petix

And if I could add one more piece, just knowing that people are in schools right now and you might have kids coming home who are like, not touching their lunch or snacks, obviously one of the main reasons is because there’s just not enough time. They want to play and there’s just not enough time with recess and lunch.

00;45;41;01 – 00;46;18;15

Laura Petix

But adding to that, especially if your kid is eating in an indoor cafeteria. But even sometimes outdoors, those places are so sensory overloading that I can’t even believe that that is a place where my child, like, sits and eats her food, right? Because when you have a child who’s nervous system becomes easily dysregulated, those environment with the bright lights, the smells, the talking, the chatter or visions of other people’s food that might not sit well with you, all of those things can affect your nervous system and your interception, and it can make you less hungry.

00;46;18;15 – 00;46;37;15

Laura Petix

It can really interfere with your appetite, cuz especially if you’re releasing cortisol and you’re stressed in that environment. So even less likely to eat when you’re in that environment because of just all the sensory overload. And then you come home and you have a hangry child who’s melting down, and you open their lunch and they barely touched it.

00;46;37;17 – 00;46;52;16

Laura Petix

And so that’s just a reminder that it’s not necessarily like they didn’t like the food, not necessarily that like they didn’t know how to open it or what to. It’s like they might not have been able to hear their own hunger cues in the midst of this noisy sensory environment.

00;46;52;22 – 00;47;08;28

Dr. Mona

And this episode is going live right before the holiday season. So the Indian holidays are coming. So I know not all of you are doing that, but like the holiday season is is such a prime example of like birthday parties, family gatherings, why our kids only want to eat one butter roll or like eat one thing like you’re like, why aren’t you eating?

00;47;08;28 – 00;47;28;29

Dr. Mona

And it’s exactly this. Like they could eat amazing at home. And I see this all the time at birthday parties. Like, my kids don’t want to sit down and eat, even if other kids are eating, they want to play. And so what I usually do is I either like if I if they didn’t eat the food that I got, I pack it up because we didn’t eat it, or I just have another meal when we get home and I’m like, hey guys, here’s the meal.

00;47;28;29 – 00;47;39;20

Dr. Mona

If you want it, enjoy it before nap time or play time and just go off the schedule a little bit because then, like you said, it’s going to be Meltdown Central because they don’t have any sustenance and they missed an entire meal. Yeah.

00;47;39;21 – 00;47;59;05

Laura Petix

Oh, I pack my daughter a lunch or a dinner whenever we go to a Filipino family party because she’s she’s not doing any of that. Yeah. When my brother when we would grow up, my mom used to, like, bring McDonald’s for him to the family party because it’s just like, it’s not worth the fight, and I’m going to be able to stay longer and enjoy my time there with my cousins and my family.

00;47;59;05 – 00;48;15;09

Laura Petix

If my daughter has been as as eight and then sometimes she’s she’s more willing to try the food that’s there if she’s already full and she has this like backup safe meal versus if she thinks that’s the only thing that’s available to eat, she will refuse to try anything. And even if she likes it, she’ll say she doesn’t like it.

00;48;15;16 – 00;48;15;24

Laura Petix

Yeah, it’s.

00;48;15;24 – 00;48;17;22

Dr. Mona

A control thing, I love that.

00;48;17;24 – 00;48;27;26

Laura Petix

So I just pack her lunch or feed her right before, and then I don’t even worry about that because I just want her to stay and as long as possible so that I can have some adult time and time with my family.

00;48;28;02 – 00;48;47;23

Dr. Mona

I want to get more personal now, which I already mentioned to our listeners at the beginning. So you’re an occupational therapist. You’re also neurodivergent, and you’re raising a neurodivergent child. I mentioned that, yes. How has becoming a parent changed the way you practice as an OT? And how has being an OT in the work that you’ve done changed the way you parent?

00;48;47;29 – 00;49;04;18

Laura Petix

Oh my gosh, across the board, I am much more empathetic in both roles. So when I became a parent, I had a lot more compassion and empathy for parents when they would show up late to client sessions. Before, I used to be like, oh, I hate when they’re late, right? Or when they wouldn’t follow through with home programs.

00;49;04;18 – 00;49;31;28

Laura Petix

I’m like, oh, they’ve probably a lot going on at home. Maybe I shouldn’t have told them to do an obstacle course at seven in the morning. Now, as a parent, I’m like, why did I even suggest that? Right? So much more compassion for the parents and empathy for the parents for what they’re going through. Also for my clients, when I started to like, go through all of the behaviors that I had as a kid and knowing what they can look like, I had a lot more empathy for them when they were maybe rude to me and session, or were having a hard time following instructions.

00;49;31;28 – 00;49;51;20

Laura Petix

I was more empathetic towards that. And then my OT clinician skills really helped me become more empathetic and compassionate toward my daughter once I really saw her as having a differently wired brain, which is why I think it’s so important for parents to understand this, because when I was just thinking, she was neurotypical, all of a sudden I’m like, why are you acting like that?

00;49;51;20 – 00;50;08;03

Laura Petix

What’s wrong with you? What’s going on? Like when you see them and for what it is and say you have a differently wired brain and this is how it works, then it’s like your brain is doing exactly what it’s supposed to do. It’s doing exactly how it’s wired to be. I just needed to understand what it was doing, and now it makes sense.

00;50;08;03 – 00;50;14;05

Laura Petix

So across the board, much more empathetic with being neurodivergent as an OT and as a parent.

00;50;14;08 – 00;50;29;11

Dr. Mona

I love it. And through that work, you got to write this amazing book, which again, I’m just so happy for you. The sensory code understanding sensory processing differences to support your child’s unique needs. Beautiful cover choice, by the way. Like thank you pop toy. And like the butterfly I’m just.

00;50;29;12 – 00;50;36;20

Laura Petix

I, I catch your attention on shell. Yes, I love it. You know it is so pretty. I love on that side. It’s it’s very.

00;50;36;20 – 00;50;54;19

Dr. Mona

Showing it for all of our YouTube viewers, which, by the way, you should be watching this on YouTube because it’s the totally something faces. Yeah. There we go. Right there. Now, what’s one thing you wish every parent understood about their child’s nervous system before their next meltdown moment of pushback or moment of defiance?

00;50;54;21 – 00;51;14;08

Laura Petix

I wish they understood that dysregulation, that moment that your child shows their dysregulation, displays it for the world is that it’s been accumulating. So it’s not always like something happens. And then there’s the meltdown, because how many times do we have a meltdown? And we’re like, where did that come from? Like you were just you were just fine, right?

00;51;14;13 – 00;51;36;20

Laura Petix

So it can be accumulating throughout the day based on whatever sensory events that’s happened, what cognitive demands were placed on them, anything else that’s been happening? It can just be kind of like slowly, like simmering underneath the surface. And then there’s just one little thing, the straw that broke the camel’s back that pushes them into this dysregulated zone, this meltdown zone.

00;51;36;25 – 00;51;57;16

Laura Petix

And it’s not just the thing that happened right before that is happening. So it can be like a lead up to the meltdown. And that’s so important to understand because again, that makes it clearer. If there’s a pattern, it’s like it’s always every day after school, but sometimes it’s because I hand her the wrong cookie. Sometimes it was about how I cut the banana.

00;51;57;16 – 00;52;11;08

Laura Petix

So is it about food? No, it’s probably about the buildup of sensory information from school. So maybe we look at school and how overwhelming that is. Can we make accommodations there to help prevent these after school meltdowns?

00;52;11;11 – 00;52;28;26

Dr. Mona

I think it’s so important. And you just said something that I, I always talk, talk about on my page, which is I know that, you know, people don’t like saying that kids are just tiny adults. But in many ways, I when I talk about stuff, I agree, we’re completely there. We’re completely different. But think about how you would feel in a situation, what you just said perfectly.

00;52;28;26 – 00;52;48;15

Dr. Mona

Like when I snap at my husband, it’s rarely about what he did in that moment, right? It’s about the things that happened to me in the day. It’s about maybe something he did two days ago that I haven’t been able to talk to him about. It’s never rarely. I would only say never. Rarely, like you said, about the moment that you show the dysregulation, even in our lives.

00;52;48;17 – 00;53;07;21

Dr. Mona

And I just think we forget that sometimes as grownups we think like, okay, well, wow, what are you going so wild about right now? And it’s like, and again, I love the title of your book because it’s such a code, right? It’s like you’re trying to figure out this puzzle of like, okay, what is going on here? And it’s not always going to be like a checklist of like, okay, this is what it is.

00;53;07;21 – 00;53;27;07

Dr. Mona

It’s just understanding your kids vibe is so valuable. And then you’ll learn about yourself. Like, this is the book for anyone listening that you are going to learn so much about your neuro, your nervous system as well, that you’re going to be like, oh my God. Like, I never realized that I probably have a sensory code because we all do.

00;53;27;07 – 00;53;45;10

Dr. Mona

And so please get this for yourself if you have a child. But if you don’t have a child and you like listening to my content, just get it for yourself so that you can learn and read and just be a more understanding, compassionate human to yourself like that. You don’t judge yourself and think that you’re a bad person because you think or feel a certain way, like like you talked about.

00;53;45;10 – 00;53;52;17

Dr. Mona

We all are just different nervous systems, different sensory codes, just meeting with each other and trying to have relationships and communication.

00;53;52;19 – 00;54;12;01

Laura Petix

Exactly that. And if you can’t purchase it or you don’t have kids, you can still support by by going to your local library and requesting that they stock it. And then they can purchase books for people in your community who might benefit from this book. So there’s lots of ways to support it and make it accessible for for as many folks.

00;54;12;04 – 00;54;28;22

Dr. Mona

Thank you so much for joining me. You have been on my show before and we have met a few times now. I think three times I can’t even but truly, I’m just so proud of you. I think I just want you to know that, like, I know you. I know, you know, this is a hard process, and I’m proud of you.

00;54;28;22 – 00;54;48;28

Dr. Mona

I’m proud of this work. I mean, you can tell by the way you speak about this topic. You love what you do, and it’s just so telling. And I’m just so grateful that this world can now have this book. Evergreen. Right. Like, do you understand that? Yes. Like generations to Come will have this book on their nightstand and you will be able to help them be better guide, leaders for their child.

00;54;48;28 – 00;54;49;21

Dr. Mona

Like that is huge.

00;54;49;28 – 00;55;08;10

Laura Petix

I love that. That’s the vision I have in my brain as I am going through this. Like just this debut, this birth into the world, that it’s not just like I did it, it’s done. It’s like it’s going to live on and continue to make small ripples in the world. The butterfly effect, the tiniest little changes can make a huge impact.

00;55;08;10 – 00;55;13;01

Laura Petix

So I’m very excited and very proud of it. Thank you so much for saying all those things about it.

00;55;13;04 – 00;55;28;24

Dr. Mona

Yes, I mean, I, I’m just so proud of people who love what they do. It’s like something that I gravitate towards. I just love being around people who love what they do. I don’t care what they do, but if they want to talk like forever about a topic, I’m like, wow, you’re so in love with what you do.

00;55;28;24 – 00;55;33;22

Dr. Mona

It’s so great. So thank you. Of course, where can people follow you to say that again for us?

00;55;33;25 – 00;55;45;28

Laura Petix

Yeah, you can find me on Instagram at the yacht butterfly, and then you can find this book at most major retailers. But if you want a list of links, even for international links, and you can just go to the odd butterfly.com slash, the sensory code.

00;55;46;00 – 00;55;47;29

Dr. Mona

Thank you, Laura, for being with me today.

00;55;48;02 – 00;55;51;20

Laura Petix

Yay! Thank you for having me.

00;55;51;22 – 00;56;12;01

Dr. Mona

What an episode. I told you how important this is to know not only if your child is neurodivergent, but every human being has a sensory code. I feel like once you understand this, you start seeing certain behaviors through a completely different lens. My biggest takeaway is that understanding what’s underneath the behavior doesn’t mean we excuse the behavior or assume everything is sensory.

00;56;12;03 – 00;56;39;15

Dr. Mona

It means we have more information about what our child may need, and that information can help us choose a better response. The kid who’s constantly climbing, crashing, and wrestling maybe seeking appropriate supportive or vestibular input. The kid who looks like they’re not listening may actually be taking in every sound around them. This was my son and the child who goes from 0 to 100, maybe experiencing sensations inside their body much more intensely than we realize.

00;56;39;18 – 00;56;59;12

Dr. Mona

So here’s what I hope you take with you the next time your child’s behavior makes you think, why are they doing this? Get curious before you react. Ask yourself what could be happening underneath this behavior? What might their body or brain need right now? Sensory won’t explain everything, but sometimes it gives us another piece of the puzzle and that can change what we do next.

00;56;59;15 – 00;57;19;13

Dr. Mona

Laura’s book really gets into how we can start understanding those patterns and honestly not only help our kids, but help us. Please send this episode to the parent who keeps saying, I feel like I’ve tried everything. This might be the conversation that helps something finally click and if you share it, tag the PedsDocTalk podcast, PedsDocTalk and the OT Butterfly so we can see it.

00;57;19;15 – 00;57;32;22

Dr. Mona

And don’t forget to vote for the PedsDocTalk podcast on the Signal words. Thank you for listening. Thanks for your support and let’s keep reaching more families through this amazing show and all the amazing conversations I get to have.