On this episode of Monday Mornings with Dr. Mona, I speak with Rychelle about her 3-year-old son who has big feelings and with that can sometimes come some physical tantrums.

In this episode we discuss:

• Respecting differences in temperament of children
• Mistakes we make during physical tantrums
• Why pivoting to other discipline interventions is important

I end each episode with three parenting principles. These principles can be used in various parenting situations, but I explain how the three principles I chose apply to navigating physical tantrums

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00;00;00;00 – 00;00;20;12

Rychelle

Every child is just different and the things that trigger them and how they’re going to respond to those triggers from an innate nature standpoint, not from the nurturing or for the parenting aspect. So, you know, we have to understand that, yes, nurturing and raising kids is 100% nature, and it’s 100% nurture.

 

00;00;20;14 – 00;00;45;25

Dr. Mona

Hey everyone. Welcome back to the PedsDocTalk podcast, a podcast that continues to grow because of you and your reviews. So thank you for tuning in, for being here and for all of your love for this podcast. On this episode of Monday Mornings with Doctor Mona, I am talking with Rychelle about physical tantrums in her three year old son in who?

 

00;00;45;28 – 00;01;08;17

Dr. Mona

Hey Rachelle, thank you so much for joining me on today’s episode. Tell me, what is your concern today as a mom? 

 

Rychelle

Hey. Yeah. So, my main concern, I have a three and a half year old, almost three and a half year old, and he is very strong willed. And he can have some very aggressive tendencies as. Especially when he’s having a really big tantrum.

 

00;01;08;20 – 00;01;32;28

Rychelle

I mean, we’ve gone through many phases with him. It’s not like this is a new thing. I think maybe the first sign of it was like 8 or 9 months when he started biting me when he was nursing. And we worked through that. And, you know, there’s been a lot of different phases he’s gone through. But it’s just that as he’s gotten bigger and older, it feels much more challenging because his tantrums will often become a lot more physical.

 

00;01;33;01 – 00;02;00;20

Rychelle

And a lot of the things that we try to do in the advice that I get, and I think it’s great advice, but, you know, it’s the basics of like, okay, I identify how he’s feeling. I set the boundary for him and then they’ll give advice like, now just restrain him or move in the way. But it’s sometimes that’s not as simple as it sounds, you know, like it’s very difficult to physically hold him back to hitting or sometimes he’s being so upset in his tantrum that I’m worried he’s going to hurt himself.

 

00;02;00;22 – 00;02;26;00

Rychelle

And it’s hard to find a way to keep him safe because he’s, just being so big, like, in his emotions in those moments. 

 

Dr. Mona

So, yes, you kind of mentioned what you’ve done so far. So to kind of confirm, you obviously are verbalizing the emotions, empathizing with them, reinstating the boundary. But of course, sometimes that boundary means the behavior may continue in that moment and then you have physically removed yourself already from the situation.Or has that not. 

 

00;02;26;00 – 00;02;48;07

Rychelle

Yeah, yeah I have, so it depends on me. And my husband both do that. So it depends on the exact situation. Right. But let’s say for example, he’s hitting and biting or something because he gets really angry. Right. That’s a common one for him. Not all the time, but when he has those really big tantrums, you know, a few times a month, just a big blow ups, he can get really physical like that.

 

00;02;48;07 – 00;03;07;09

Rychelle

And so, you know, I’ll try to. We do our best to stay calm, not perfect at it, and try to force all of us headed. Yeah. Try to stay calm, you know, like, hey, I see you’re really angry. It’s okay to feel that way. It’s not okay to bite or hit mommy. You know, I’m going to move away now, or I’m going to put you off my lap, you know?

 

00;03;07;09 – 00;03;23;26

Rychelle

But sometimes he’s so strong and fighting back against me so hard that it’s not that simple. Like I can’t simply move away from him. He chases after me or I’m worried he’s going to hurt himself. He has at times like that himself when he’s really frustrated. And so then I’ll try to, like, hold his arms down so he can’t.

 

00;03;23;26 – 00;03;40;21

Rychelle

But then he’ll fight against me so hard that it’s, I don’t know, like I’m worried too. Like I don’t want to hold him too hard and hurt him somehow, you know? So I think it’s just kind of that, you know, figuring out there’s a few other things we’ve tried to. We’ve done a lot when use calm talking about coping strategies with him.

 

00;03;40;24 – 00;04;02;01

Rychelle

So we practice like taking deep breaths. We’ve practiced, hey, if you’re really angry and you feel like you want to hit something we’ve talked about, like he can go find his pillow on his bed and that’s an okay thing to hit. But we never hit people or we’ve tried different things and there has been some success there. Like there are times that he catches himself and he actually takes a deep breath.

 

00;04;02;01 – 00;04;19;22

Rychelle

That happened a few days ago and I was like, oh, yes. But, you know, it doesn’t like he’s only three and a half. He’s not going to get it every time. And so I’m still just struggling. My husband and I are like, okay, when he has those really big, hard tantrums, you know, what’s the best way to help him and keep him and us safe?

 

00;04;19;25 – 00;04;39;27

Dr. Mona

And you mentioned it already that, you know, obviously you’re kind of concerns are him hurting himself. Obviously him hurting you. And just also the safety aspect. Is there anything else that you would say is the hardest aspect of this, including like your concerns, your frustrations? What would you say is like the feelings that go inside of you when this is all happening?

 

00;04;40;00 – 00;05;00;22

Rychelle

For sure? Yeah. And I mean, to be honest, when he is really aggressive towards me or I should mention as well he has a four month old baby sister now. So that also makes it harder because now if I’m or my husband are watching both of them by ourselves and he happens to have a big and I shouldn’t, it maybe sounds like he has this all the time.

 

00;05;00;22 – 00;05;16;10

Rychelle

This isn’t all the time, you know? But he skips a nap or he’s overtired. Or there’s some days that it just happens, you know? And so that’s maybe one of the hardest parts now is that there’s this extra layer of, we want to help him and keep him safe and work through it with him, but we also need to keep her safe.

 

00;05;16;12 – 00;05;45;16

Rychelle

And he hasn’t been super aggressive towards her. He adores her. But you know, when he gets like that, he’s not really thinking rationally, you know? Right. So that’s kind of a challenge and extra challenge. And I would say just for myself like I get super angry when he starts being angry towards me. And that doesn’t help. Right? So one of the hardest parts is trying to figure out how I can take a moment to calm myself when I feel like there isn’t a moment available, like he needs me right then to try to, you know, keep him safe in that moment.

 

00;05;45;18 – 00;06;03;10

Rychelle

And I think the other thing that’s really challenging is it feels isolating because I don’t feel like I hear these type of tantrums talked about as much. And so there’s times that we question, like, are we doing something wrong or do we need to get help? Like, is this normal? You know, which I’ve read enough that I’m pretty sure it’s normal.

 

00;06;03;12 – 00;06;22;20

Rychelle

Yeah. I think parents are nervous to talk about maybe when their kids get more, like, violent, like tantrums like that. But I think maybe we think it’s like a reflection on us when it’s not. So I think you can just feel kind of isolating sometimes, because I don’t always hear others talk about that as much. So it’s just kind of like, oh, like, is this normal?

 

00;06;22;20 – 00;06;46;13

Rychelle

You know? 

 

Dr. Mona

Oh, completely. And I’m so happy that I can have you and other parents. They’ve been mostly mom so far. But come on the podcast to talk about this to normal eyes, these very common childhood behaviors. And you’re describing something that a lot of children do do. And I think one of the hardest things is, you know, society’s for children to behave and act a certain way.

 

00;06;46;19 – 00;07;07;12

Dr. Mona

And when your child has a more physical tantrum, albeit it’s not often you said it can feel like it’s a reflection of our parenting. Like you mentioned, when it’s actually just a moment that the child’s having, you know, they are figuring out what these big emotions mean. They are figuring out how to handle the big emotions, and it is not a reflection of you.

 

00;07;07;12 – 00;07;27;02

Dr. Mona

It is not a reflection of anything more than us navigating this in the moment. And that can be really hard from a standpoint of judgment. And what are people saying? Or, you know, my kid is a great kid, I promise. You know, all the labels that people put on their and but yeah, like every child to some degree is going to have a major meltdown.

 

00;07;27;02 – 00;07;48;00

Dr. Mona

And some children, the way they process those major meltdowns is with physical aggression. And I think you’ve already started doing a lot of amazing things. I think one of the biggest things we have to remember is that every child has different temperaments. So some children with one emotion may just be like, okay, I’m going to cry a little bit and it’s fine.

 

00;07;48;02 – 00;08;10;20

Dr. Mona

Another child may have a big meltdown, physical aggression, all of that stuff. Every child is just different and the things that trigger them and how they’re going to respond to those triggers from an innate nature standpoint, not from the nurturing or for the parenting aspect. So, you know, we have to understand that, yes, nurturing and raising kids is 100% nature and it’s 100% nurture, right?

 

00;08;10;20 – 00;08;31;00

Dr. Mona

So there’s a combination of things happening here. And you you know, you have another child, that child, you could do the exact same parenting tip, the same exact parenting models that you’ve been doing yet that child may respond better to that. And that doesn’t mean that you did something wrong. Every child is just so unique in their needs and their responses that you need.

 

00;08;31;00 – 00;08;59;02

Dr. Mona

So your child sounds like, Olan, right? It sounds like he has pretty big emotions. Obviously most people do. And these big questions are leading him to what I call major dysregulation episodes. You know, I call these moments where children are hitting, kicking, screaming like you can’t even reason with them. Obviously dysregulation episodes. So in these episodes, it’s very important to always try to go back to basics of trying not to explain any why.

 

00;08;59;02 – 00;09;15;14

Dr. Mona

And I think you did that really well, but not why you don’t hit, why you don’t do this. If you’re physically removing yourself from the situation. You say, I’m moving myself because you’re hitting, but you’re not going to say we don’t hit and hitting is this. And, you know, because in that moment, all they’re hearing is chaos in their brain.

 

00;09;15;17 – 00;09;39;25

Dr. Mona

All they hear in that moment is I’m just regulated, I’m dysregulated. So our main goal in dysregulation is how am I going to meet their emotional chaos right now by staying calm and by also recognizing that they’re having a really hard time. And you said you’ve already started to do that in terms of like the verbalization and the kind of empathizing that I see that you’re really upset right now and it’s okay to be upset.

 

00;09;39;27 – 00;09;59;04

Dr. Mona

And sometimes that means doing something completely different and not trying to say a lot of things, like literally just sitting on the ground and saying and sitting with your child and saying, you know what? You’re having very big feelings right now. And it’s really, you know, you’re going through something really hard right now. I’m here if you need me.

 

00;09;59;06 – 00;10;16;08

Dr. Mona

And you know, you sit on the ground, they may be throwing themselves on the ground. If he tries coming at you and physically trying to hit you, which it sounds like sometimes that does happen. Then of course, you have to reiterate and say, you’re hitting mommy, I have to move myself. And sometimes that means, you know, moving to a different part of the house.

 

00;10;16;11 – 00;10;37;03

Dr. Mona

Sometimes it means, you know, putting a pillow in front of you so that you have some cushion. But it’s not, you know, saying, don’t hit me, don’t hit me, don’t hit me. It’s really just saying I am going to physically remove myself. And you can have your moment. So you know, you’re allowing them to like, release and not try to fix anything in that dysregulation moment per se.

 

00;10;37;05 – 00;11;09;18

Dr. Mona

I also like to talk about like, healthy coping skills that may help Olan. Because every child is different. Have you tried in the moment? You know, I know you said you teach him breathing exercises or he did some breathing exercises to kind of calm himself down, but you guys also incorporate different coping skills like moving the body, getting outside or, you know, being kind of silly or kind of humor in a situation, not necessarily in a tantrum, but just kind of as like a teaching point for coping skills in general.

 

00;11;09;20 – 00;11;26;02

Rychelle

That’s one thing we’ve kind of been experimenting, like trying to figure out, like what is coping skill would be, yeah, like what’s going to work for him, you know, like, I know and I’ll try to tell him sometimes, like, this is what works for mommy when I’m feeling upset. To be honest, I’m not sure we’ve fully found like what clicks for him yet.

 

00;11;26;05 – 00;11;43;22

Rychelle

The deep breaths seem to help him sometimes. Like he’ll catch himself sometimes. Like I’ll see him. Not usually in the big, big moments, right? But they’re definitely helping in some of the smaller moments. I’ll see him like get frustrated playing, and sometimes he’ll take a few breaths. And so if anybody’s listening in, they’re like, oh man, that worked quickly.

 

00;11;43;22 – 00;11;58;29

Rychelle

No, we’ve been doing that with him for like probably a year and a half. And I think I just saw him starting to do that. So it definitely has like taken a lot of time for him to like start having that click that. That’s something he could do. But I’m not sure that we fully found yet for him.

 

00;11;58;29 – 00;12;20;24

Rychelle

Like when he gets really upset, like what’s the best thing to help him? He has a few times told us that he needed quiet time. So he’ll start to get upset and he’ll like, shout, I need quiet time. And we’re like, okay, yeah. I like the idea of, you know, maybe showing him away. He can move his body or because I think he’s so physical that it just helps him.

 

00;12;20;24 – 00;12;38;17

Rychelle

If yes, if we get energy out sometimes. 

 

Dr. Mona

And that is why I’m bringing it up. Because a lot of children, and I’m going to say it because I do believe there is a slight difference in sex, but boys tend to like more physical releases of stress. Okay? And it doesn’t mean that some boys, like my son, is a blend of deep breaths.

 

00;12;38;17 – 00;12;59;19

Dr. Mona

But he also, when he’s having a hard meltdown, it’s really hard to do this for sometimes it means taking him by the hand or carrying him to his stroller, and we get outside for a walk and when he’s in the stroller for our son, it actually helps with like, him feeling contained and safe right? That he can kind of have a release, and then being out in nature for a walk actually helps him finally kind of calm down.

 

00;12;59;19 – 00;13;26;13

Dr. Mona

And I love nature as a form of relaxation as it is, and I think it’s one of the most healthiest coping skills or going outside if you are able to, weather permitting. Not obviously, if you’re in like a major public place, because I don’t want you to feel like, you know, people are like sharing and whatnot. I know that’s hard, but if you were in your home and this meltdown is happening, we can say, you know, let’s go outside and you’re not explaining why you’re going outside, you’re just doing it in the moment so that he can be allowed to kind of let it all out.

 

00;13;26;19 – 00;13;46;21

Dr. Mona

Right. Sometimes it’s, you know, it’s called paradoxical instruction. Sometimes when we are allow our child to scream and say, hey, look, I need you to just let it out. I’m here. You’re safe. Go ahead and scream, let it out. Because what could be happening is the physical aggression can be happening. When he feels that maybe the yelling isn’t okay, which I get it.

 

00;13;46;21 – 00;14;02;06

Dr. Mona

I don’t want him yelling and screaming all the time. But as we teaching him, this paradoxical instruction can be like, hey, look, I want you to scream and shout until you’re ready. I am here if you need to yell, go ahead. You are in a safe space with Mommy or Daddy, and I want you to go ahead and let it out.

 

00;14;02;06 – 00;14;25;28

Dr. Mona

We are not going anywhere. But. And then that balance of physical aggression, obviously we need to set those boundaries, which I think you are. But what I’m trying to do is I’m trying to help him before that physical aggression happens. Right. Like, yeah, can we get him in that dysregulation moment? Because I’ve been there when a child is so dysregulated that when they’re dysregulated, they’re just running around like with no awareness, right?

 

00;14;25;28 – 00;14;51;11

Dr. Mona

They’re going to try to knock down all the toys and they’re going to try to hit you or they’ll my son did this tumble out of his crib out of dysregulation because he was like just so upset. Right? Like they are not thinking clearly, which they’re children. So of course you’re going to be thinking clearly. So that’s kind of what I think maybe a little bit helpful is any of these things, things that you’ve already been doing or things that you’re like, oh, that may actually be something we have to kind of still pursue or think about.

 

00;14;51;13 – 00;15;06;22

Rychelle

Yeah, I think we have been doing some of those things, you know, and I think some of it is all the timing of when it happens. Right. So, you know, sometimes I’m able to catch like that. I can kind of tell he’s in a more irritable mood, more prone to that. And so I can try to do a reset.

 

00;15;06;22 – 00;15;25;08

Rychelle

Hey, let’s go for a walk. Let’s go outside. Let’s do stuff like that. I haven’t thought about before, like trying to do that. Maybe in the moment he’s having a really tough time. I think that could work sometimes. I think part of the challenge, too, is that it is when it. And I don’t know, it seems like a lot of the times it happens at like the worst moment it could.

 

00;15;25;08 – 00;15;45;23

Rychelle

Right? Like and actually, maybe not the worst. He’s actually had very few that are in public. There usually are at home. Which is lucky for us, I do. That’s not always that way, you know. But like sometimes a common one for him is that sometimes it’s like in the middle of the night, which then I’m like, man, there could be so many things.

 

00;15;45;23 – 00;16;08;07

Rychelle

He could have been over tired at bedtime. Maybe he had a bad dream that he’s not explaining to us. Or maybe he’s having separation anxiety. He’s gone through little phases of that, you know? So at nighttime, not all the different options are available. Always or sometimes now, like with the four month old, I guess, to give an example of a very difficult time that I had a few weeks ago.

 

00;16;08;07 – 00;16;24;26

Rychelle

I know some of this was him. Still, there’s probably some aspects of him he loves his sister, but there’s times he struggles with not having all the attention, you know? So there was a night, one of the first nights that I was trying to do bedtime for both of them by myself, because my husband had some work.

 

00;16;24;26 – 00;16;43;21

Rychelle

He had to go do, and he was doing great until we got close to bedtime and he just started to lose it, you know, and he was being really physical. And usually it doesn’t come out towards his sister at all. But like you said, like they’re not really rational when they’re this upset. Right. Yeah. He hit her once and then she was really upset.

 

00;16;43;21 – 00;17;06;20

Rychelle

So I was trying to move her to safety, and it was hard to get him out. So I think in my head, I’m most anxious about those moments where it’s hard to try to enact some of those plans or like, I couldn’t really get him outside in that moment. Right. Correct. But overall, I think there are some of those things that I could try to do more with him, to try to find, like what really helps regulate him.

 

00;17;06;22 – 00;17;24;14

Dr. Mona

Yeah. And I think one thing I want to bring up, because I also, as you know, a parenting philosophy, I tend to not use a lot of timeouts. Timeouts is not something I personally use, but I know that it can be very useful in certain situations. And I’m giving this example because have you ever used a timeout for him?

 

00;17;24;16 – 00;17;42;26

Rychelle

Not for the most part. I will say that that particular scenario I’m talking about, I did go and put him in his room for a minute. And yes, we actually have like a door lock on his room because we are having a lot of issues with him coming out at night and we set safety risk. So I felt terrible that night doing that.

 

00;17;42;26 – 00;17;59;24

Rychelle

But I needed to help his sister first and get. Yes. So I put him in his room. I told him, I love you, I’ll be back in a moment. And I, like closed him in so he couldn’t get out of his room. And then once I got her somewhat calm and checked that she was okay, I went into him and he was still really angry.

 

00;17;59;24 – 00;18;16;00

Rychelle

I think he was really upset. I left him in there. So I felt at that moment I felt super guilty about it. the closest I’ve come to doing it. Usually we try, if we can, to like sit with him. Really upset. 

 

Dr. Mona

The sitting is something that I also utilize more. The hey, you can have these feelings.

 

00;18;16;04 – 00;18;41;13

Dr. Mona

But you know what? If I just had the feeling. But I’m here for you. I also do offer, like in the moments. Like. Because if they’re so dysregulated, sometimes they want the physical connection and the don’t know what that means, so they end up hitting. It’s almost like the hitting is a action. That is the background of it is that either they’re tired or whatever it me, but it could be also that they’re using that for the physical attention and physical connection.

 

00;18;41;16 – 00;19;10;20

Dr. Mona

Right. So they’re getting a rise out of you. They’re being able to connect with you in that way. I know that sounds a little bit weird, but the physical act of hitting a parent is almost like the connection that they want and the attention that they want, and so surprising him with connection. So if you can see a trend like, hey, this commonly happens at evenings, you know, after school, then you’re able to kind of say, okay, I need to make sure that I give like ten minutes of alone time or more connection, surprise him with a hug before bedtime.

 

00;19;10;20 – 00;19;27;16

Dr. Mona

Like knowing that his trigger may be a certain situation. It’s not always easy to do that, but, that surprising of connection can really help them so that they feel that we see them and that we hear them and all of those things that they don’t feel like no one understands me, that I’m dysregulated, no one gets me where I’m coming from.

 

00;19;27;19 – 00;19;48;26

Dr. Mona

But pivoting to use a timeout. The reason I’m glad that you mention it. I also have used it once, and there’s a lot of misconception about timeout. The timeout. You used it in a situation that was exactly kind of when I expect a lot of parents to use it in that you it to keep another sibling safe, and you also had to manage another sibling and you don’t have the ability at that current moment to do both.

 

00;19;49;01 – 00;20;06;01

Dr. Mona

Right. And you needed that for you. And you also did a really great job of saying to him, I love you, and I’m going to put you here for just a second for your safety and my safety, and I will be back. The fact that you verbalize that, whether they register that or not is actually very impactful to me.

 

00;20;06;07 – 00;20;26;23

Dr. Mona

And then after the timeout situation that you gave, allowing time for connection, you know, comfort when they calm down, explaining to them that when they’re calm now, not when they’re aggressive, still or upset that I love you so much. I know we needed a moment. You needed a moment. Mommy needed a moment. And I love you. And I love everything about you.

 

00;20;26;28 – 00;20;43;16

Dr. Mona

And I’m always here for you. You know, that is kind of how I also remove any of that sort of timeout guilt. But I hope people listening to this don’t have time until it can make us feel really bad, especially when a lot of social media accounts say that timeouts are not okay and that they’re not, really good for kids.

 

00;20;43;22 – 00;21;05;16

Dr. Mona

They can’t be if we sandwich it in the right way. And are using it in situations like this where you literally have no other option as to how can you manage both situations and you need something to protect everybody, right? You’re trying to just probably mounted in that room and everything’s safe. You have the ability to keep him physically safe while you can do what you need to do.

 

00;21;05;19 – 00;21;22;27

Dr. Mona

Is something I think really valuable. That is something that you may find, like when they’re having the big emotion. If you may start to see that timeout, do what? How did he feel after that timeout? You said he was upset, but did he calm down after the timeout? 

 

Rychelle

He did eventually. Yeah I mean that night was kind of up and down.

 

00;21;22;27 – 00;21;44;28

Rychelle

He had a lot of waves. So he would get calm and then you’d get really upset again. And then calm and really upset again. And, to be fair, I think he was also overtired that day. So yeah, just kind of a and it was the first time in a while that like I was doing bedtime usually in the past before little sister was there, if daddy was gone and it was mommy home, it was like he got 100% of mommy, right?

 

00;21;45;00 – 00;22;00;22

Rychelle

Right, right. So I’m sure there was a lot of different things playing into it. So when I went back in, like he was really upset that I had put him in there. And so I sat and hugged him for a while, and we talked a bit about it and he wanted to go check if his sister was okay.

 

00;22;00;24 – 00;22;25;01

Rychelle

And, you know, it was kind of calming again. And then if I remember right, I blocked some of it out of my head. Yeah, I remember he he had a few more waves where he got really upset again throughout the night. You know, when I was trying to get him down back and forth. But now I appreciate you saying that because I think, you know, we do put so much guilt on ourselves and I, I just felt so bad in that moment that I felt like I couldn’t give both kids fully what they needed.

 

00;22;25;01 – 00;22;48;16

Rychelle

But that’s just the reality sometimes. 

 

Dr. Mona

Yeah. And even if a person listening to this has one child, I mean, sometimes you’re going to need that moment. And I again, we’ve done one timeout so far and we probably will use more as he gets older. Yeah. Time of this recording. My son’s 30 months old okay. And it was a situation where we basically like he wasn’t listening to the things that normally were correct, like all the things that we normally do.

 

00;22;48;16 – 00;23;03;08

Dr. Mona

And I’m explaining this and it’s so important, like the hey Ryaan boundary setting, he was not listening and he kept throwing something that we kept telling him not to throw. And yeah, I also and my husband was also ourselves a little dysregulated at that moment. But of course adults and we’re not screaming and whatever. But I felt like, you know what?

 

00;23;03;09 – 00;23;17;23

Dr. Mona

We need to give him some space. So I walked into his room and I said, Ryaan, you’re having a difficult time hearing me right now. I’m going to put you in your crib because he’s still in the crib. I’m just going to give you a moment and mommy will be right back. And in that situation, I, like, had the door open.

 

00;23;17;23 – 00;23;31;25

Dr. Mona

Like he basically that’s a moment to calm down. He did calm down after a minute and a half. And then I went back in there and I picked him up and I gave him a big hug. And, you know, we did exactly what I’m asking, you know, you to do that. Yes. It did not feel good to hear them crying.

 

00;23;31;25 – 00;23;55;20

Dr. Mona

And you want to be there when your brain is trained to sit in there with them. But at some times if they’re being aggressive or if they are, you know, in those moments where you’re like, I’m actually concerned that I’m going to not be able to stay calm or I’m concerned of my safety or my siblings safety or the sibling safety that I’m going to utilize these tools in my toolbelt and just give each other or give ourselves a little bit of a break.

 

00;23;55;25 – 00;24;13;23

Dr. Mona

And then the most important thing when you get back is so key is the even, you know, when they’re kind of getting more calm a little bit. It’s that sort of repair of, hey sweetie, I love you so much. How did you feel in your moment? You know, like they’re still probably crying and upset. Yeah. And you’re just reiterating the fact that we all needed this moment.

 

00;24;13;23 – 00;24;37;25

Dr. Mona

It’s not even just for the child. It’s also for us those moments that we do maybe separate them from us. But I do like that, you know already what you’re doing in terms of the, in the moment, normalizing the feeling I would add, like I said, the seeing what the coping skill for him would be, whether it’s, yeah, turning on some music and I know, you know, distraction is almost like a controversial kind of parenting thing that in the moment, why are we going to distract them?

 

00;24;37;25 – 00;24;56;27

Dr. Mona

But you’re not distracting them from their feeling. You’re saying it’s okay to feel this way. Why don’t we turn on some music and just move our bodies and dance? And they may say, no, mama, no, no. But sometimes that can really be what they need. Especially for a more physical child, right? Moving the body, getting outside, changing the scenery.

 

00;24;56;27 – 00;25;15;24

Dr. Mona

These are all things that we can do in the moment so that we can all get un dysregulated, if that’s the word. But, so that we can all just kind of get back to that these. But in that moment, if we’re kind of going into like the cycle of, okay, he’s hitting me, I’m stepping away. And then he chases me and then now he’s going to like slam his face on the ground.

 

00;25;15;24 – 00;25;35;11

Dr. Mona

And it’s so dysregulated for everybody in that moment. Sometimes the changing of the scenery in the daytime is fine. At night it may mean just stepping outside, going to get a glass of water, like doing something just to kind of get yourself out of that physical space. That energy is kind of feeding into that sort of energy of a mood for him at that moment.

 

00;25;35;16 – 00;25;52;24

Dr. Mona

But that can be something that can really help as well. 

 

Rychelle

Yeah, no, I appreciate all that. I think those are really helpful. I think sometimes, like, it’s easy to get stuck in a rut, like when you’ve been trying the same things for a while. Which is good because I know toddlers need consistency. That and it takes a while, but I appreciate some of those things.

 

00;25;52;24 – 00;26;07;28

Rychelle

I think maybe we’ve been in a little bit of a rut of thinking about ways to help him cope with it. So I like some of those ideas of new ways to try with him, and he’s very good at communicating and talking. So I love the idea of just kind of talking to him more and helping him think more about, like, what helps you calm down?

 

00;26;07;28 – 00;26;23;09

Rychelle

What do you guess would help instead of us just like telling him like, hey, you should take some deep breaths or you should do this, you know? 

 

Dr. Mona

And the other thing, just to kind of clarify which I think you are doing and I want to make sure, is that you are doing a great job of teaching him those coping skills when he is calm.

 

00;26;23;09 – 00;26;49;02

Dr. Mona

Right? Like the breathing exercises, doing the let’s get up side, and it’s almost like putting the seed in their head that, you know, moving our bodies, getting outside, breathing exercises, jumping jacks, whatever it is. These are all great things that we do when we’re calm. But because they are smart, you know, three year olds and two plus they cognitively understand these are great things to do when we’re not feeling or, you know, we’re feeling kind of off or feeling kind of sad or feeling like a little bit that our emotions are very big.

 

00;26;49;04 – 00;27;09;19

Dr. Mona

Me and daddy also feel the same way. You know, mommy loves to work out or kind of making them feel a little bit more relatable to you and that you’re human also, and that you do this to cope with your big feelings and they’ll learn something. But yes, you’re doing that fantastically, that you are doing it in the calm moment when there is a disregulated moment, you can remind them about it.

 

00;27;09;19 – 00;27;25;18

Dr. Mona

But I wouldn’t focus so much on trying to make them do all of those coping like, you know, the breathing. You can try to do that a little bit, but don’t worry if they’re not doing it all. You know, I talked about putting on music or going outside. These are just change of scenery or change of energy situations.

 

00;27;25;24 – 00;27;42;19

Dr. Mona

But don’t be alarm like, as you know, like in the moment, if they’re like, I don’t care, don’t talk to me because they’re just so upset. You know, whatever it is, that the only thing that their brain is hearing right now is basically like squiggles going around in circles that I don’t know what’s going on. I feel these things.

 

00;27;42;19 – 00;27;57;15

Dr. Mona

I don’t know how to process it. I don’t know what to do with it. So anything that we do has to be from a place of, I see that you’re very upset, I see it, I see it, I see it, and then we’re going to get through this. You know, with the long term education and coaching on coping skills during the calm moments.

 

00;27;57;15 – 00;28;11;07

Dr. Mona

And that is exactly what you’re doing, I think. Yeah. Really? 

 

Rychelle

Well, yeah. We learned that the hard way. I think earlier on we would try to tell him sometimes like, okay, we should take deep breaths now. And he would just get angry like, I don’t know. I we’re like, okay, that but it does like you mentioned. Like what?

 

00;28;11;07 – 00;28;28;01

Rychelle

I’ll often do with him is I’ll take a deep breath myself. I’ll tell him, like I’m taking a deep breath to calm down rather than telling him he should, because if I tell him he says something, then automatically he doesn’t want to in that moment. Right. And that. 

 

Dr. Mona

Yeah, that’s what you’re saying. Yeah. And that’s modeling right for it.

 

00;28;28;05 – 00;28;42;16

Rychelle

They have to kind of come to it on their own, which, you know, can take a long time. But yeah, I appreciate that. And like I said, the deep breaths work sometimes. But I think you’re absolutely right. I think we need to focus on some more, you know, physical things he can do. I think that’s probably going to be really helpful for him.

 

00;28;42;19 – 00;28;59;15

Dr. Mona

Yeah. And I can tell that because again, I love having these conversations because in another child I could have talked to a different mom and she would have said, my child is more of a sensitive person and needs that sort of touchy feely. But every child is so unique in temperament that some kids need a little bit of space.

 

00;28;59;18 – 00;29;18;22

Dr. Mona

Some kids want the hug, some kids want to move their body. And I’ve seen it, you know, from a young age I’d watch Ryaan, you know, want to one sometimes he wanted a hug. Sometimes he just wanted no one to touch him. He’s like, don’t touch me. But then as he gets older, he knew that I’m always going to be there for him, for the physical hug.

 

00;29;18;22 – 00;29;35;22

Dr. Mona

If he wanted it, for that physical connection. And then he has now understood this is what I need in the moment. I right now need no one to talk to me. I’m just going to cry on the floor, right? Mommy and daddy are in the room, but I’m just going to cry on the floor. And then other moments, you know, he’s like, I’m like, Ryaan, do you want a hug right now?

 

00;29;35;25 – 00;29;58;26

Dr. Mona

I feel like maybe you want a hug. And he’s like, yes, mama. I’m like, they come over here, you always can get a hug from mommy, right? And sometimes he stops the tantrum, sometimes it doesn’t. Right. So it’s such an art of knowing your child’s temperament and again, loving having these conversations so that we can normalize the variation in child temperament and that literally, you are not doing anything, quote unquote wrong.

 

00;29;58;26 – 00;30;23;14

Dr. Mona

I know you feel like that because people don’t talk about this enough of like, you know, what is it that a child should be doing and how long should the tantrum last? I can’t say that I am, you know, happy to hear that this is not the norm, you know, and if this violent, aggressive tantrums were the norm in your house, like more times than not, then I would say, you know, kind of dig a little further as to schedules and routine and development and all of this.

 

00;30;23;14 – 00;30;44;01

Dr. Mona

Like why is he having so many frequent aggressive meltdowns? But it sounds as if your child is a pretty typical toddler, and there is a spectrum of aggressiveness in toddlers, but it sounds to me to be very within the normal range for a child. And you all are recognizing it and working towards it, so I think that’s the best combo to see change.

 

00;30;44;03 – 00;31;04;13

Rychelle

Thank you. Yeah, I appreciate those ideas. Sometimes you just need like a fresh look to yes, things to do it. So yeah, I really appreciate that. And I appreciate the talk about timeouts too because yeah. Like I ideally don’t want to do timeouts with him. But you’re absolutely right. Sometimes it’s the best for you and him just to take that moment so you can calm down or take care of other things.

 

00;31;04;13 – 00;31;24;22

Rychelle

So that’s really reassuring. 

 

Dr. Mona

Yeah. And again, I love having these conversations just for the nuance and the respect of the unique child and parent relationship in every conversation I have on this series. So what would you say would be like just a few take homes? I know you said you were going to kind of try to look for more physical ways of coping skills for him.

 

00;31;24;24 – 00;31;44;27

Rychelle

Yeah, I think that’s one of the top ones, is practicing with him and trying to find more physical, safe things that he can do. Yeah. When he has energy, excess energy to get out. I also this was earlier you were talking about this, but it was just kind of a reminder for me. I know sometimes I have the habit, even though I know sometimes I just need to be quiet with him.

 

00;31;45;03 – 00;32;07;19

Rychelle

We keep going for a while or keeps hitting or keeps trying to bite or something. I’ll, you know, keep trying to tell him like, no, that hurts. No, don’t do that. And I’m like, okay, no, you’re right. I have to remember just that none of that getting through to him in those moments. And I have found that usually when I’m quiet and I tell him, like, I’m going to keep you and mommy’s safe, I’m here when you want a hug, that he does tend to calm down faster.

 

00;32;07;19 – 00;32;29;07

Rychelle

So that was a good reminder. Yes, because I think as he gets older, it’s just like I have this desire to explain to him why he shouldn’t do that, and that’s not helpful in the moment. And then, yeah, just that idea of not to feel guilty or bad. If there’s moments where I do feel like having him in me take some time either because I need to help his sister or because I’m upset and I need to calm down, too.

 

00;32;29;07 – 00;32;51;19

Rychelle

Like, I think that’s just a really good, like you said, like a something to have in your toolkit. And that it’s not my first go to. But I know that it’s not like terrible to use when I feel like that’s what’s best for that moment. 

 

Dr. Mona

I love it, and I my favorite of the three that you’re going to take home all of them are important to me, but the it’s okay to be quiet is something I’ve had to learn so much.

 

00;32;51;21 – 00;33;07;05

Dr. Mona

Being a toddler parent, because I tend to want to fill the space with I see you when I verbalize because it is important to verbalize what you’re seeing and feeling, but there is a degree of when it just becomes too much and they just stop listening, right? Yeah. And I kind of think about it with adults, right?

 

00;33;07;05 – 00;33;27;00

Dr. Mona

Like if me and you are having a conversation and you are really sad about something, and if every time you’re sad and you are sitting and you, I just keep saying, oh, it’s okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, sometimes you just want to sit with someone and just cry and be sad and have that person not fill the space with anything but just your physical presence.

 

00;33;27;02 – 00;33;44;05

Dr. Mona

And that is like a huge power that I think a lot of times we don’t talk about in the parenting space is that it’s okay to not say anything. It’s okay to literally just be sitting with your child. And that way they know that you physically are there, but that you’re not trying to change anything or be anything, or you’re just going to like, let them have that moment.

 

00;33;44;05 – 00;34;05;27

Dr. Mona

And then when that moment is done, you are there for them, comforting them because tantrums are tiring for children and they’re also very tiring for us. So after the tantrum, like I’ve seen, you know, Ryaan, and I’m sure you’ve seen the turtle and like, he just feels drained, right? Like their body just seems exhausted. And I literally just, like, even when I hug my son, it feels like he’s more exhausted and tired.

 

00;34;05;27 – 00;34;20;19

Dr. Mona

Yeah. And I’m like, it’s hard having a tantrum. Like, it’s a lot of big emotions and crying. And that moment after I think is going to be a good reminder for them that you know you’re there for them. However it is that you’re there for them, but they’re going to feel, you know, more comforted in that repetition of that presence.

 

00;34;20;19 – 00;34;29;06

Dr. Mona

And so I think these are amazing take homes. And I’m just so glad that you could join me today. 

 

Rychelle

Thanks for having me. This has been a great conversation.

 

00;34;29;09 – 00;34;51;17

Dr. Mona

So when our children have these big emotions, it can be very hard. And then when you add on the physical nature of a tantrum, it can feel even harder. You want to keep them safe, keep yourself safe, keep other siblings safe. And then like we talked about, sometimes you can feel like you’re not doing it right, that something’s wrong with your child.

 

00;34;51;20 – 00;35;21;13

Dr. Mona

I want to wrap up this episode with three take home principles. Now remember, these principles, if you think about it, can be applied in many different parenting situations. But I’m going to talk about how it applies to Olan and his big feelings and those physical tantrums. Number one, it is important to normalize the feeling in the moment. When you’re normalizing the feeling, you are just visualizing and verbalizing what you are seeing and almost like being that sportscaster or that narrator that says, hey, this is what’s happening.

 

00;35;21;13 – 00;35;43;28

Dr. Mona

I see what you’re feeling. You’re trying not to explain to them any reasoning. Explaining logic to someone who’s going through something very emotional is not the time logic can be for later, but right now you have to meet them. Emotion to emotion. That leads me to number two. It’s okay to be quiet. You don’t have to always fill the space with that verbalization.

 

00;35;43;28 – 00;36;02;17

Dr. Mona

Sometimes I find that parents are overdoing it. Okay, I see you, I see you. Yes, I see you, I see you. Yes, yes, it’s okay. And that just adds more energy to the situation. When sometimes when you’ve done that and you verbalize and made sure that they knew that you’re listening and that you’re there, it’s okay to sit in the feelings.

 

00;36;02;20 – 00;36;23;11

Dr. Mona

I get it sometimes when people are going through really big emotions, we want to say things or fill that space so that they feel better, faster. But think about it when you’re not feeling your best in terms of an emotional situation, when someone is there with you, just sitting with you, it can actually really help. Now, if someone is just giving you all this advice and okay, okay, it’s okay, it’s okay.

 

00;36;23;11 – 00;36;43;15

Dr. Mona

Mona, you can cry. You can cry sometimes I can feel a little bit like, well, can you just give me some space to feel right now? So you have to gauge what your child needs. Normalize the feeling is very important. But don’t forget, number two, that it’s okay to be quiet. Number three is pivot when needed. And I use this example as a time out.

 

00;36;43;17 – 00;37;02;04

Dr. Mona

I also don’t use a lot of timeouts, but I think timeouts are wonderful for certain children for certain situations like we talked about here. I myself have given my son a timeout and it really helped both him and myself and my husband calm down in that situation. So don’t be afraid to pivot when needed. That is why I’m doing these episodes.

 

00;37;02;04 – 00;37;19;26

Dr. Mona

That is why I created PedsDocTalk, so I can give parents the various tools that you can use in different situations or with different children, depending on what you need. When you get pigeonholed in I need to do it this way or it must be this, and now, my gosh, I’m going to destroy my child. If I do this, you’re not going to.

 

00;37;19;29 – 00;37;37;04

Dr. Mona

If you do a timeout correctly, it’s actually going to really help the situation. And in some situations you have no other option. Like we talked about on this episode, when she has to take care of another child and her child is having big feelings. Yes, you can verbalize, but sometimes it means saying I love you. I will be right back for you.

 

00;37;37;09 – 00;37;58;02

Dr. Mona

And then when you do go back, you give them that love. You give them that attention. You follow through with what you said you were going to do. I hope this episode was helpful. As always, if you love the podcast and the Monday Mornings with Doctor Mona series, make sure you tag me on your Instagram stories, share the love, and especially write a review because that’s how other people discover the podcast.

 

00;37;58;07 – 00;37;59;22

Dr. Mona

And I’ll talk to you next week.