On this show, you will find guidance on all things parenting, health, and development for our kids AND important conversations surrounding parental mental health and communication. Part of this conversation is around resentment that may happen with partners after having children.

On this episode, I welcome Ashurina Ream – a licensed clinical psychologist, mom, and founder of Psyched Mommy. She joins me to discuss:

• Why partner resentment can happen
• How to communicate with your partner to avoid the snowball effect of resentment
• Why handling resentment is important for the entire family

Learn more about Dr Ashurina Ream and Psyched Mommy at psychedmommy.com or connect on Instagram @psychedmommy

00:00:01:01 – 00:00:22:16

Ashurina Ream

As mothers, we are experiencing so much change and often we look at our partner and we say, wow, they are not having to go through this. Maybe my body has changed. I’m responsible for nourishing this child, or I am up at night looking into all of these things for my child’s development, or what kinds of carseat they need, which I was just doing.

 

00:00:22:18 – 00:00:44:19

Ashurina Ream

All of the things that we are doing and our lives are changing in a way that we feel like maybe our partners isn’t and we are doing more of this work. We’re sleep deprived. There’s financial strength. I mean, we both can experience as both partners can experience as well. What I’m saying is that most often I’m noticing that moms are reporting this and saying, hey, it just feels like things are not fair.

 

00:00:44:21 – 00:01:08:11

Dr. Mona

Welcome back to the PedsDocTalk podcast. The show’s success is due to you and the way you share the show with others, and leave reviews, so continue to do so and thank you so much. I’m excited to welcome back Doctor Ashurina Ream. She’s a licensed clinical psychologist and founder of Psych Mommy. She was on my show earlier this year talking about why am I so angry, perinatal rage and motherhood.

 

00:01:08:12 – 00:01:18:11

Dr. Mona

And she’s coming back on to talk about partner resentment in motherhood and how to overcome this. Thank you so much for joining me again, Doctor Ashurina.

 

00:01:18:13 – 00:01:20:01

Ashurina Ream

Thank you so much for having me.

 

00:01:20:03 – 00:01:32:11

Dr. Mona

Well, if people are not familiar with who you are or have not listened to our other episode, why am I so angry? Perinatal rage and motherhood. Tell us more about yourself and also why you sounded like mommy on Instagram and your website as well.

 

00:01:32:13 – 00:01:52:11

Ashurina Ream

Yes, I’m a licensed clinical psychologist in Arizona, started my career doing all kinds of work in the field of psychology, became a mom, and made a huge pivot in my career. After I noticed all of the changes in my life experiencing perinatal mood disorders and just changes in. I mean, it impacts your entire life, right? Becoming a parent.

 

00:01:52:13 – 00:01:56:14

Ashurina Ream

So I made a huge shift in my career, and now this is the focus of my work.

 

00:01:56:16 – 00:02:21:13

Dr. Mona

Awesome. And I loved chatting with you on our other episode about rage. And I think this topic is also really important. We did allude a little bit about partner communication on that last episode, but I wanted to talk about this because this is a huge thing I see in my office with obviously mothers, fathers. But, you know, I’m talking with a lot of parents, and I wanted someone who is a, you know, clinical psychologist or trainers area to chat about resentment.

 

00:02:21:13 – 00:02:30:21

Dr. Mona

So what happens in motherhood that we can suddenly or even gradually develop resentment towards our partner that may not have been there beforehand?

 

00:02:30:23 – 00:02:54:06

Ashurina Ream

That’s a great question. When we enter parenthood and we are in a partnership most often where, you know, we’re just kind of cruising by, we have a child and this is a big major life transition. So like any major life transition, there is going to be this learning curve. There’s going to be a huge adjustment period. And what I find this is one of the biggest pieces outside of a mother’s own mood.

 

00:02:54:08 – 00:03:22:05

Ashurina Ream

This is one of the biggest complaints that all the parents that come walking through my door will talk about. And that’s because as mothers, we are experiencing so much change. And often we look at our partner and we say, wow, they are not having to go through this. Maybe my body has changed. I’m responsible for nourishing this child, or I am up at night looking into all of these things for my child’s development, or what kinds of carseat they need just doing.

 

00:03:22:07 – 00:03:46:02

Ashurina Ream

So like all of the things that we are doing and our lives are changing in a way that we feel like maybe our partners isn’t and we are doing more of this work. We’re sleep deprived or financial strain. I mean, we both can experience as both partners and experiences. But what I’m saying is that most often I’m noticing that moms are reporting this and saying, hey, it just feels like things are not fair.

 

00:03:46:02 – 00:04:08:17

Ashurina Ream

And that’s kind of where it starts. I’m noticing this unfairness. I’m noticing that we are no longer, like, romantically connected. It feels like we’re just two ships floating through the night, passing through the night. And we I mean, it’s just a divvying up of tasks, but most often I see this showing up because it feels like things are unequal, they’re unfair.

 

00:04:08:17 – 00:04:33:20

Ashurina Ream

The labor is not distributed or divided appropriately. And we start to see that resentment grew. And this is not uncommon. I want to say this like this has been researched significantly. And if you follow Gottman researched adopters John and Julie Gottman, they have heavily researched partner relationships. And within that first year, bringing home a baby. What they have found is that more than 67% of couples report dissatisfaction in a relationship.

 

00:04:33:20 – 00:04:54:04

Ashurina Ream

So this is not something that I’m just, you know, we’re talking about, you know, like, oh, hey, you might you may or may not experiences this is showing up in research. And it’s really important to address because our partner relationships, our satisfaction with them, it’s one of the biggest non biological predictors of postpartum depression. So it’s really important to be paying attention to our relationship dynamics.

 

00:04:54:04 – 00:04:59:11

Ashurina Ream

It’s not just something that should is like an afterthought. It is something that’s incredibly important.

 

00:04:59:13 – 00:05:31:11

Dr. Mona

Yeah. And from a parenting aspect, because I talk a lot about parenting, it absolutely can affect the parenting dynamic. You know, when there’s resentment, that resentment can come across in front of the kids. And I mean, I see it, you know, we talk about that first year, which I believe is very pivotal, like you said. But even in my visits, you know, I see a married couple or, you know, partner relationship coming in and you see that sort of snickering comments of like, you know, throwing it in, you know, to the other partner and whether it’s a heterosexual, you know, woman to man, man to woman situation, I see both ways in front of the

 

00:05:31:11 – 00:05:47:15

Dr. Mona

kid. And so I love chatting about this because not only is it something that I want for the couple, but I also know that it can impact the parents, the parenting, and also the child as well to see, well, why is mommy talking about daddy that way? Or why is daddy talking about mommy that way? And I don’t want that.

 

00:05:47:15 – 00:06:10:18

Dr. Mona

If we can reduce that and avoid that, you know, for children and also for just the happiness of the couple, and you’re so right that it develops and it is very common. I mean, you talk about the research, but I mean, I see it even I experienced it. My friends, I don’t think I have a single friend of mine who has not at some point, experience resentment once they became a mother.

 

00:06:10:18 – 00:06:28:08

Dr. Mona

Whether it’s about finances, whether it’s about load in the house, whether it’s about both of them are working outside the home. And yet the woman takes on more of the parenting duty, which I think is a huge one that I hear and I’ve experienced as well. You know, like we both work, but why am I the one handling the car seat research?

 

00:06:28:13 – 00:06:40:19

Dr. Mona

Why am I the one handling that? So where do we even begin? I guess, to address these issues and maybe change these patterns so that we can feel more peace with our partner?

 

00:06:40:21 – 00:06:56:06

Ashurina Ream

I think one big thing is I always talk about we make the invisible visible we carry. I mean as moms we are going to innately be concerned with so many things and that’s not to say that like hey this is my duty as a mother. Let me do it and wear it as it was a badge of honor.

 

00:06:56:08 – 00:07:13:21

Ashurina Ream

We want to share that. We want to make the invisible visible. So we want to talk about all the things. So these are household tasks. We need to write them down, make them visible. Or, you know, if you want to verbally address us with your partner, go for it. But what I find success and as I talk about these are all the things I’m having to do or these are all of the household tasks.

 

00:07:13:23 – 00:07:34:16

Ashurina Ream

What do you feel comfortable taking on? What do I feel comfortable taking on? Because when we agree to do something, it feels more reasonable and it feels more fair. It’s not going to ever be equal. So that’s something that I do want to address. There’s not going to be this like we’re going to split things up 5050. That doesn’t usually happen just because logistics and because life and this is just part of the human experience.

 

00:07:34:18 – 00:07:50:17

Ashurina Ream

But if we can agree to something, it feels like, okay, I actually I had a part in this, I agreed to do this. You know, I felt like I was agreed upon. It was a decision I made. It wasn’t something that was just defaulted on to me that I am now like having to deal because of just circumstance and nature.

 

00:07:50:19 – 00:08:11:07

Ashurina Ream

So we want to make the invisible visible. We also want to discuss our expectations with our partner in a way that feels good for both of you. I also go back to this idea that our partner isn’t the problem. The problem is the problem, and this is also like in the context of a healthy partnership where you feel like you’re respected and that the two of you have the same goals.

 

00:08:11:07 – 00:08:33:17

Ashurina Ream

You both want to remain together. There is, you know, it’s a healthy dynamic, but in most cases the problem is a problem. And we need to figure out what the problem is. Okay, I’m noticing we both work outside of the home, but I’m cooking all the meals, I’m cleaning all the like, then all the housework. And this also according to research, more women are being responsible other shouldering all the household work even when they are working outside of home.

 

00:08:33:22 – 00:08:51:11

Ashurina Ream

So this is a real problem and we need to address that and say I don’t feel comfortable doing all the stuff. How can we divide this? That feels good for both of us, and we want to bring it up in a very respectful way. I talk about this in therapy. I’ve been talking about this in therapy for over a decade, but we want to bring up a problem how we’d like to receive it.

 

00:08:51:13 – 00:09:07:20

Ashurina Ream

I’m going to send a message how I’d like to receive it. In no circumstance do I ever feel good when someone comes to me and says, you never do this stuff, you suck at this. You know you aren’t. You aren’t doing this. You’re not doing a good job at this in any circumstance. I can’t even think of one where I’d be like, oh, you know what?

 

00:09:07:20 – 00:09:29:03

Ashurina Ream

You’re right. You’re good. I should probably work off bad. We want to send the message how we like to receive it. We want to communicate our feelings because when we don’t and we suppress this, a breeding ground for bitterness and resentment and resentment is erosive to that relationship dynamic. And it’ll turn into an eruption of sorts. And it’s just unhealthy to sustain it.

 

00:09:29:03 – 00:09:47:15

Ashurina Ream

It’s not sustainable. So we want to talk about what our needs are in a respectful way and have ongoing dialog. Maybe you have like a weekly check in where you say, like, how are things feeling for you? How are you know, what’s on your plate that you feel like is unmanageable and vice versa? How do you feel about, you know, doing these chores or these tasks?

 

00:09:47:17 – 00:09:55:02

Ashurina Ream

And that’s just a start. That’s just like ground zero. I’m starting to untangle this resentment.

 

00:09:55:04 – 00:10:13:20

Dr. Mona

Oh, again, I think you, like you said it like, snowballs the resentment if you don’t address it. And I love the two phrases that I love make them visible, visible. And also it’s not the person’s the problem at hand, especially when you know you want to continue with this marriage or partnership. How can someone communicate with a partner who may not understand?

 

00:10:13:20 – 00:10:28:22

Dr. Mona

I’m the example. You know how you just talked about making a list, right? Which I think is a really great idea, like of making things visible, visible. And then that person says, I brought that up to families in my office, you know, like, again, I’m not therapist, but I’m like, when your pediatrician people come to you for all their problems.

 

00:10:28:22 – 00:10:42:06

Dr. Mona

Yes, it is. And then I give them some things I’m like, but look, I’m not your therapist. I need you guys to get the help and do what you need to do. But one of the things I’ll see is that either the husband or wife will say, and it usually, stop. Husband, partner, I’m going to be very honest with you in this situation.

 

00:10:42:08 – 00:10:58:09

Dr. Mona

Why are you making things tit for tat? And I’m like, well, it’s not tit for tat. It’s visualization of what each person is putting into this relationship. So how do you approach that partner who may not understand that this is an issue, or who may not want to kind of make things better.

 

00:10:58:09 – 00:11:16:15

Ashurina Ream

If you will? Yeah. So this is definitely not tit for tat. We think about there’s two different experiences. We talk about, like taking all the household tasks and divvying them up. That is like fair partnership obviously keeping like ledger of things that happened. That’s a very different experience. Like, you know, well, you said this and you did that.

 

00:11:16:15 – 00:11:38:17

Ashurina Ream

That’s like keeping a ledger of like the things that we do that are not ideal, they’re not desirable. I think when you talk about how this impacts our partnership, that’s what makes the needle move in the right direction. When we say, like, hey, I want to go through some of the responsibilities that we share in this household, and this would help me to feel just more balanced, our relationship and our partnership.

 

00:11:38:21 – 00:12:02:19

Ashurina Ream

It would make me feel like I’m hurt. I’m seen. I’m, you know, supported in a way that’s incredible. It makes me feel more connected to you. When we talk about what that does, when we talk about the outcomes, sometimes we can get that partner to see, okay, now I can recognize like why this is important. Obviously that’s a challenge because like you want everybody to know like this is important no matter if it has a positive back on your partner or not.

 

00:12:02:19 – 00:12:18:14

Ashurina Ream

Like why wouldn’t I want to support our household? Like, what would you do without me? You know, that kind of thing. But I think bringing it up and saying, like, these are our household responsibilities. And when you don’t support me in this, I am noticing that bitterness. I am noticing that resentment towards you. And I don’t want to feel that way.

 

00:12:18:16 – 00:12:39:13

Ashurina Ream

I want to feel like we are a strong, you know, dynamic, a strong team. And when we do the stuff together, I feel closer to you. I feel more connected more, maybe even more. And I have more desire to be intimate. Because truly, I hear this absolutely, really often we talk about, foreplay. Foreplay does not start in the bedroom.

 

00:12:39:15 – 00:12:42:07

Dr. Mona

It’s cleaning up after yourself.

 

00:12:42:09 – 00:12:47:12

Ashurina Ream

Yes. I’m not saying this is like dangling a carrot, but there’s like.

 

00:12:47:13 – 00:12:50:20

Dr. Mona

So this is it is. Let’s agree on it.

 

00:12:51:02 – 00:13:09:13

Ashurina Ream

Yes. Yeah. It’s like foreplay is all day. It’s all of the things. It’s a combination of things. So we want to talk about the impact that it has on the partnership. Like this is what happens when this is not shared clearly. And this is how I feel. And then when it is shared fairly based how I feel, so that we can kind of really create that is making it visible.

 

00:13:09:13 – 00:13:19:18

Ashurina Ream

Not like, oh, okay. I never would have thought of it that way because most often our partners don’t have that need or that desire or they don’t see things that way. So helping them understand can really move the needle.

 

00:13:19:18 – 00:13:38:05

Dr. Mona

Yeah, I love it. I mean, a lot of this is such an issue that impacts so many different aspects of your life. You said intimacy and so much of physical intimacy is emotional intimacy. Support all of that stuff. And there are all these data sets that come out, you know, like that first year postpartum that, you know, partners don’t have intimacy or sexual desire.

 

00:13:38:05 – 00:13:50:19

Dr. Mona

And a lot of it could be time, but a lot of it could be this. And there’s so many layers to kind of put in there. It’s not just one thing all the time. This is such a great conversation. Again, I think it’s so important that we have these conversations similar to the one we had about perinatal rage.

 

00:13:50:22 – 00:14:09:02

Dr. Mona

So people understand that this happens. You’re not alone. There’s nothing wrong with your marriage. You’re not doomed for failure. But there are things, like you said perfectly, that we have to communicate with our partner to get this resentment under control, discuss it, and maybe move forward from it. What would be your final message for everyone listening today?

 

00:14:09:04 – 00:14:31:12

Ashurina Ream

I want to remind everybody that your relationship is going to be tested every time you bring home a child. This is a transition period. You’re meeting a whole new person, and it’s shifting the dynamics you went from you and your partner being focused on one another to now your attention is focused on the small human being. So there are going to be growing pains and everyone experiences them, and it’s just going to take a lot more effort and work.

 

00:14:31:12 – 00:14:49:12

Ashurina Ream

And you feel like, hey, why don’t have the energy? Because we’re tired and now we have a new human. So how do you expect me to work on this relationship? I would highly, highly encourage you to have open dialog, but also be open to working together with a therapist. But here is the really important message you want your therapist to like do couples work?

 

00:14:49:18 – 00:15:11:18

Ashurina Ream

And honestly, to do couples work exclusively? This is a specialty area and this is not just like somebody like I don’t see couples, but hey, I’ll see them. I’ll see you. This is my exception. You want people to be trained to work with couples. This is important work. So if there Gottman trained, if they do, you know, EFT emotionally focused Therapy couples or IPT interpersonal therapy.

 

00:15:11:20 – 00:15:24:08

Ashurina Ream

There’s a number of therapy dynamics that are specific to the couple. Relationship the couple partnership. So you want that kind of provider so that they can really help you navigate that. Otherwise they’re going to be sending you in the wrong direction.

 

00:15:24:08 – 00:15:35:01

Dr. Mona

Yeah. Well that’s a really great point. And also all the points that you made today were so great. Thank you so much for joining us. And for also the other conversation we had about perinatal rage and motherhood, too.

 

00:15:35:03 – 00:15:36:21

Ashurina Ream

Yes. Thank you so much for having me.

 

00:15:36:23 – 00:15:52:13

Dr. Mona

And where can people find you to stay connected on all of your resources and information? I know you, obviously, we talked about resentment. We talked about rage last time. And you talk about so many relatable experiences, especially mothers go through. So where can people find you to stay connected on all your information?

 

00:15:52:15 – 00:16:08:21

Ashurina Ream

Yes. You can find me at psych mommy.com. I’m Psych mommy on every single social media platform. I actually have a workshop on resentment and an unfairness in the partnership, because this is one of the most common problem areas that comes up in therapy. So that’s also a resource. But I do have.

 

00:16:08:23 – 00:16:31:19

Dr. Mona

Perfect and I will be linking everything to the show notes, not only the website that has all of her workshops, but also her Instagram and social media handles as well. And if you love this episode, which I’m sure you did, I hope you also listen to the Perinatal Rage one, because this information is so important so that we can be more present with ourselves, more present with our partners, and then subsequently more present with our children.

 

00:16:31:21 – 00:16:49:21

Dr. Mona

Leave a review if you found this information useful for you, call out doctor Ashurina and her amazing information that she provided. Share it on social or share it with your partner. Maybe listen with your partner and I can’t wait to have her on again. I’m sure she’ll be back on the show and I cannot wait to welcome another guest next week.

 

00:16:49:22 – 00:17:05:14

Dr. Mona

Thank you for tuning in for this week’s episode. As always, please leave a review. Share this episode with a friend. Share it on your social media. Make sure to follow me at PedsDocTalk on Instagram and subscribe to my YouTube channel, PedsDocTalk TV. We’ll talk to you soon.