Practical optimism is not about pretending everything is fine or forcing happy thoughts when life feels hard. In this Follow-Up episode, I revisit my conversation with Dr. Sue Varma, psychiatrist, cognitive behavioral therapist, and author of Practical Optimism, to break down what it really means to build a hopeful mindset that is grounded in action, not denial. We talk about how optimism differs from toxic positivity, why some people seem to move through hard things with more resilience, and how this way of thinking can be practiced, even if it does not come naturally.

In this episode, we cover:

• What practical optimism actually is

• How it differs from toxic positivity and pessimism

• Whether optimism is something you are born with or something you can practice

• The eight pillars of practical optimism

• The three Ps of pessimism and how to spot them

• Why purpose, self-compassion, and emotional regulation matter

• How optimism can support mental health, relationships, and parenting

• Ways to start shifting your mindset in everyday life

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00;00;00;02 – 00;00;28;18

Dr. Mona

Welcome back to the follow up. Doctor Mona here. And this is the series of the PedsDocTalk podcast, where we revisit a favorite conversation in less time than it takes you to rewire your brain. That’s been programed for negativity. And I’m retiring today’s episode because of a question I got recently and a question box on my Instagram. Someone asked me, how can I teach my kids about being positive when I’m not really that person, that positive person?

 

00;00;28;21 – 00;00;52;07

Dr. Mona

And I thought, well, this is a conversation for you because the truth is, raising confident, positive kids isn’t about forcing positivity or pretending everything is perfect. What we really need is something called practical optimism. In this episode, I sat down with doctor Sue Varma, who is one of my favorite people confidante. She’s really helped guide me in my own book writing.

 

00;00;52;07 – 00;01;19;04

Dr. Mona

So thank you. Doctor Sue, a psychiatrist. Cognitive behavioral therapist and author of the book Practical Optimism The Art, science, and Practice of Exceptional Well-Being. We talk about what practical optimism actually means, how it’s different from toxic positivity and pessimism, and whether optimism is something we’re born with or something we can learn and practice. We also talk about how people survive and even thrive through really difficult life experiences.

 

00;01;19;10 – 00;01;43;13

Dr. Mona

The eight Pillars of optimism and the three PS of pessimism, and how this mindset can help us handle the unexpected, especially in parenting. If this episode resonates with you. Make sure you subscribe to the show. Download the episode to set this automatic downloads. Share it on social media and tag at the PedsDocTalk and at doctor Sue Verma DRC Verma.

 

00;01;43;16 – 00;01;53;13

Dr. Mona

So we can see that you’re listening and love these conversations. Let’s get into this week’s follow up.

 

00;01;53;15 – 00;02;04;12

Dr. Mona

So how would you define practical optimism? And from your experience and research that you’ve done, how does some people survive or even thrive despite really profound challenges?

 

00;02;04;15 – 00;02;33;29

Dr. Sue Varma 

Yes. So, you know, practical optimism is a skill set, a tool set and action set in a mindset. And the folks that are born with optimism have a naturally positive, outlook on life. But practical optimism helps you translate in turn, positive outlooks into positive outcomes through really proactive, actionable measures. So, you know, I’ve sort of codified okay, what are these qualities?

 

00;02;33;29 – 00;02;50;12

Dr. Sue Varma 

What are these traits. What are these things that naturally optimistic people do. And then how do we make them easy, accessible, fun, relatable to the average person, right. So I can say I put myself in that average person category because like I said, I wasn’t born with it, so and I had to go through my own therapy to learn it.

 

00;02;50;12 – 00;03;08;10

Dr. Sue Varma 

And this is what I learned, that there are eight key traits. So it starts out with having a purpose. And that could be a big purpose in life. It could be a purpose, an activity. It could be a purpose in a relationship. But what is it that I’m looking for? What are my goals? And one thing to keep in mind is that purpose isn’t always connected to our paycheck.

 

00;03;08;13 – 00;03;29;16

Dr. Sue Varma 

Purpose could be raising our family, and there should be great pride in that purpose that it gives you meaning if it gives you joy. The other thing about purpose is that your purpose yesterday isn’t going to be your purpose today. It isn’t going to be your purpose tomorrow. Lastly, I want to say is that purpose is one of those things where if you can’t find it in the external environment, it’s your job to create it.

 

00;03;29;17 – 00;03;50;05

Dr. Sue Varma 

It’s on you. And a lot of times people will come and they’ll say, but I want this. I want to be in a great relationship. And I said, great. Well, it’s not going to fall from the ceiling into your lap. And no one’s knocking on our door. And, you know, granted, some people would sometimes meet potential partners, future partners in the waiting room, but for the most part, nobody is knocking on our door in this appointment and handing you what of the life that you want?

 

00;03;50;06 – 00;04;11;14

Dr. Sue Varma 

Right. And this is a tip that I learned from cognitive behavioral therapy, which is called behavioral activation. Putting the cart before the horse. And sometimes that can mean populating your calendar with activities that bring you pleasure and joy and meaning. They don’t have to be for anybody else. So that is the first pillar. And it helps us get very intentional and gives us clarity about what do we want, what do we not want?

 

00;04;11;16 – 00;04;29;17

Dr. Sue Varma 

And helps us be very intentional about it. And I talk about how purpose is about giving back to the community. You know, I think a lot of times right now, people are like, but how can I give anything to anyone? I have nothing myself. And we don’t realize that the quickest way to build your own purpose is to be of use and to feel needed and to provide.

 

00;04;29;18 – 00;04;52;12

Dr. Sue Varma 

And we’re not talking about you not taking care of yourself, or abusing or neglecting oneself, but altruism, volunteerism, all of this has been shown to extend our lives. And your question about how do some people not only survive, but thrive? And that key thing was giving back. And even if you’re depressed, take five minutes to ask someone else, how are you doing?

 

00;04;52;15 – 00;05;09;06

Dr. Sue Varma 

And what that does is it stops the illumination in the brain and helps us show up for someone else. And then it makes us feel like we matter. And when you look at a lot of the mental health disturbances that people are experiencing, it’s the basic needs that are being compromised. Do I matter? Do I belong? Do I serve a purpose?

 

00;05;09;07 – 00;05;29;04

Dr. Sue Varma 

Am I needed in this world? So purpose is big and I feel like it’s, you know, we start out practical optimism with purpose, and we end with practicing healthy habits. And while I say there’s no particular order, it’s this arc that you create and you can really use any life goal and throw it in this paradigm of, okay, there’s something I want to achieve.

 

00;05;29;04 – 00;05;47;02

Dr. Sue Varma 

That’s the practicing healthy habits. It could be a goal. And how do I start with the intentionality? And that’s the purpose. And then along the way there are other pillars processing negative emotions. Problem solving. Problem solving is always about contending. We’re almost contending with a battle on two fronts. What’s happening in the world outside and what’s happening in our mind.

 

00;05;47;05 – 00;06;08;05

Dr. Sue Varma 

And problem solving helps you regulate your emotions so you’re more effectively able to show up. Then we talk about being present in the moment, having proficiency, which is belief in your abilities, not just your abilities. So working on both confidence in the abilities. The pillar on pride is about developing self-compassion. And there’s so much research behind self-compassion.

 

00;06;08;05 – 00;06;27;25

Dr. Sue Varma 

And I would say, you know, it’s a really important part of optimism. You can do ten minute self-compassion exercise. And they show that with parents who do this, if, let’s say they’re struggling with their child or they’re having a really challenging time doing a ten minute self-compassion exercise helps them be more effective. We know that in students who are struggling with, let’s say, math with a math test, they fail the exam.

 

00;06;27;28 – 00;06;54;12

Dr. Sue Varma 

If you do a brief, self-compassion exercise, you end up doing better than we know. The science shows that optimism leads to longevity, exceptional longevity, living longer in your 80s. Healthy. Not just lifespan, but healthspan. Also, you have cardiovascular disease, less stroke, less headaches, boosting your immune system. Optimists are healthier, wealthier, more productive at work, less burnout, more engagement, more likely to get a promotion 40% in the next year.

 

00;06;54;13 – 00;06;59;09

Dr. Sue Varma 

So like me, it’s such an untapped, underutilized resource.

 

00;06;59;12 – 00;07;15;25

Dr. Mona

I love it. And, you know, not only is it just beneficial from a health aspect, from a superficial level, I just like being around optimistic people, and it’s not. I think there’s also a misconception, and I’m sure you would agree that sometimes people look at optimists as having their head in the clouds, like they can’t have any realism.

 

00;07;16;00 – 00;07;42;06

Dr. Mona

But I love my mom is a prime example. Whenever I’m with her, it just feels good. Like I feel that there’s this aura of, we’re going to handle this like it’s going to be okay. And yes, to some degree sometimes that there’s a fine line of that, but it just feels good. And I agree completely. Now, for those who are more prone to self-sabotage and their brain always is looking for the train wreck, where can they begin to shift their mindset?

 

00;07;42;11 – 00;07;50;28

Dr. Mona

If this is like new for them? Like they just have not had this 25, 30 year old person or older? Where can they even start?

 

00;07;51;00 – 00;08;10;11

Dr. Sue Varma 

Yes. So I first of all, I love what you said about your mom, and you’re 100% right that we gravitate towards optimism. You know, when you look at their friendships, they have these long lasting friendships since childhood, and it’s because they really understand the value of it, of maintaining relationships. And they also don’t hold like, grudges and grievances against other people.

 

00;08;10;11 – 00;08;26;27

Dr. Sue Varma 

And they have a tendency to give people the benefit of the doubt. And when you see the best in someone, you’re more likely to get the best from them. And so optimists really do have these stronger, relationships throughout life. And they’re people magnets. And they’re more likely to get promoted. They’re more likely for people to want to work on their team.

 

00;08;26;29 – 00;08;47;24

Dr. Sue Varma 

You know, I hate to say that it’s a popularity contest that they are because they’re fun and easy to be around and they’re kind. So I love that you share that about yourself and your mom. If someone has a tendency towards pessimism. And here’s the thing with practical optimism, it’s not enough that you boost your optimistic tendencies. You also have to be cautious and careful about your pessimistic tendencies.

 

00;08;47;26 – 00;09;16;21

Dr. Sue Varma 

And they are not just two sides of the spectrum. They can exist. Coexist. Pessimism and optimism often coexist. We can be optimistic about certain aspects of our life. That’s our job, but may be pessimistic and look at romantic relationships or friendships, whatever it might be. So the way to boost optimism, number one, is to, you know, if they follow the eight pillars, the way to kind of negate pessimism is this one key pillar on processing emotions.

 

00;09;16;23 – 00;09;37;00

Dr. Sue Varma 

Now, when we have a tendency to be pessimistic, we are more likely to do what’s called a three piece of pessimism. And Doctor Martin Seligman, you know, founder of Pioneer of Positive Psychology, talks about this. And I’ve added my fourth piece. So Pessimistic Tendencies has a tendency to look at something as taking it very personal to something that happened.

 

00;09;37;00 – 00;09;54;22

Dr. Sue Varma 

Let’s say you didn’t get a promotion this year. You were passed up. The tendency in that person would be like, oh my God, there’s something wrong with me. They take it personally. Somebody doesn’t like me, somebody is out to get me. I’ve done something wrong. I’m a bad person. Then they have a tendency to look at that and think it’s pervasive, man, maybe it’s not just my job.

 

00;09;54;22 – 00;10;10;24

Dr. Sue Varma 

Maybe it’s not just my coworkers and bosses doesn’t like it. I’m just not a likable person. Or maybe I just suck in the multiple categories of my life, or then they start to feel a sense of doom and gloom with other aspects as well, because one circumscribed area of their life didn’t work out and then they have a tendency to think it’s permanent.

 

00;10;10;24 – 00;10;26;22

Dr. Sue Varma 

Oh my God, I didn’t get it this year. I don’t think I have a future at this job. It’s not going to work out for me. This is not meant to be. I’m not good at this. Maybe I’m not good at this field. Maybe I should rethink this career trajectory completely or completely, not take any responsibility and blame other people.

 

00;10;26;24 – 00;10;47;05

Dr. Sue Varma 

You know, a pessimist is doing one or the other. They’re either taking something super, super personally in the sense of Isoc or super personally in the sense that they suck and they hate me and they’re not giving me a chance. And so this black and white thinking this all or nothing thinking then creates a lot of unhappiness. So ask yourself, are you doing certain key cognitive distortions?

 

00;10;47;05 – 00;11;13;17

Dr. Sue Varma 

And I always say pessimists are actually more realistic in their assessment of things. Right. They’re able to have somewhat of an accurate read on things. The problem is they don’t get mired in the negativity and they don’t. And the practical optimist takes a little bit of the pessimism and read the room, assess the situation, but then follows it up with a balanced action plan.

 

00;11;13;20 – 00;11;34;28

Dr. Mona

And that’s your follow up. Just a small dose of the real, relatable and eye opening conversations we love to have here. If you smiled, nodded, or had an moment, go ahead and download, follow and share this episode with a friend. Let’s grow this village together for more everyday parenting wins and real talk. Hang out with us on Instagram at the PedsDocTalk podcast.

 

00;11;35;05 – 00;11;50;17

Dr. Mona

Want more? Dive into the full episode and more at PedsDocTalk.com. Because parenting is better with support. And remember, consistency is key. Humor is medicine and follow ups are everything. I’m Doctor Mona. See you next time for your next dose.