Sweet and treats are part of our lives. Even if we may not eat a lot of them in our homes, our children will be exposed to these foods in school and at parties and it’s important we don’t put sweets and treats on a pedestal. I invite Jennifer Anderson, a registered dietitian and founder of Kids Eat in Color.

We discuss:

• How we put food on pedestals
• What it means to have a healthy relationship with food
• Why labeling of foods as “good” or “bad” can backfire

Find out more about Kids Eat in Color at kidseatincolor.com or connect on Instagram @kids.eat.in.color

00:00:01:01 – 00:00:19:14
Jennifer Anderson
Let’s say you’ve never had an M&M before. And I come to you and I say, hey, Doctor Mona, would you like an M&M? And you’re like, okay, sure. And you eat it and you say, oh wow, this is delicious. And they say, oh, great. Yeah. And maybe we talk about how delicious and maybe dope, but then that’s over and then we talk about something else.

00:00:19:16 – 00:00:40:18
Jennifer Anderson
But then maybe I come to you and I say, oh my gosh, I had this amazing, incredible thing today. And because you’ve done such a great job with all of your work, I just really want to bring you this special thing. And here it is on a plate. Your mind is absolutely blown by this thing. It’s Eminem like, and I’m just hyping it up.

00:00:40:21 – 00:01:00:05
Jennifer Anderson
I am happy in it up and and I can tie it into that. I can see, you know what? You’ve had such a long week and you’ve been working so hard. Here are these M&Ms for you. And all of a sudden I am taking an enjoyable experience that turned into something else. Totally different now. But in your emotional state and I voting whether you deserve something.

00:01:00:05 – 00:01:03:03
Jennifer Anderson
And I have just made a really big deal out of this. M&M.

00:01:03:05 – 00:01:23:01
Dr. Mona
Welcome to the show. I am Doctor Mona and thank you so much for tuning in each and every week. Your reviews and the way you share this podcast is how the show continues to grow, and we are a top 50 parenting podcast in 2024, in the United States. And we continue to grow because of all of the love you all pour into the show.

00:01:23:07 – 00:01:45:03
Dr. Mona
I get to talk to the most amazing people in the field of child development, health, feeding, parenting and today’s guest is someone I’ve always admired on social media. Her name is Jennifer Anderson. She is a registered dietitian founder of Kids Eat in Color, which helps families feed their children and provide mental health support to families through a child’s feeding journey.

00:01:45:06 – 00:01:50:05
Dr. Mona
And she’s also a mother of two boys. Thank you so much for joining me today, Jennifer.

00:01:50:07 – 00:01:52:08
Jennifer Anderson
Thank you so much for having me.

00:01:52:10 – 00:02:11:07
Dr. Mona
I have been following you for a while and then we finally met in DC for the AP conference last year in 2023, and it was so nice to see you outside of a screen for the first time. And we are going to be talking today about why we shouldn’t put sweets and treats, and I’m putting that in code on a pedestal.

00:02:11:07 – 00:02:19:23
Dr. Mona
And this is something that a lot of us have grown up with. But before we get started, tell us more about yourself and also maybe why you founded Kids Eating Color.

00:02:20:01 – 00:02:41:10
Jennifer Anderson
Sure. So when I stood in the pediatrician’s office when my son was nine months old and the pediatrician said, you know, he’s not gaining weight, that was the moment that I thought, wow, I’m a dietitian. Doesn’t he know that my son, you know, my time at the time, of course know isn’t care what your daughter’s. Yeah, but that was the moment where I knew and I start to learn.

00:02:41:10 – 00:03:01:22
Jennifer Anderson
Feeding kids is tricky. And that was really when kids in color started, although I didn’t know it at the time. So when my son was three, he was struggling to see on the world chart. I think in these tiny, cute little lunches. That’s when I started hitting color as an Instagram account. As a hobby, try to find other parents, help other parents in that situation.

00:03:02:00 – 00:03:20:14
Jennifer Anderson
And you know what I learned? I learned that I was not alone. I was not alone. And he didn’t color. Now helped millions of families feed their children. And I think at the core of everything that we do, every thing that we put out, every way that we help families, is really the reminder that, hey, you’re not alone.

00:03:20:19 – 00:03:28:09
Jennifer Anderson
If you’re struggling, you’re not alone. There’s other people who are there with you, and we’re here to help in whatever way that you need.

00:03:28:11 – 00:03:50:09
Dr. Mona
Love it. And of course, you’ve created a community of over a million followers that feel that same way and obviously feel supported and safe. And I love the advocacy work you’ve done. I mean, I know you’ve talked about like, food insecurity and shame in regards to feeding kids and how every parenting journey and feeding journey may look a little bit different and kind of busting misinformation around food as well, which is such a holistic approach to feeding.

00:03:50:09 – 00:04:10:16
Dr. Mona
And I think I, you know, as a pediatrician who’s worked with varied socioeconomic families, it is nice to see that perspective on social media, because I think sometimes a lot of accounts, not yours, but a lot of accounts. Forget that there are just different resources available to families, you know, in terms of just what we are feeding our kids and why someone may choose this sort of meal.

00:04:10:16 – 00:04:17:06
Dr. Mona
And how do we incorporate it with health and nutrition. So thank you for providing that space. Online.

00:04:17:08 – 00:04:39:12
Jennifer Anderson
Absolutely. My first job out of college was working at a food bank, coordinating nutrition programs, and that was one of the reasons I chose to go back to school, to learn more about nutrition and public health. And, there’s not one day that goes by that I don’t think about the fact that there’s lots of kids who don’t have enough food, that they don’t have access to food to that world.

00:04:39:14 – 00:04:55:01
Jennifer Anderson
So if we don’t keep that in mind, we can really lose our perspective. And it doesn’t help us if we’re being judgmental to people. And, just like we don’t want to be judged, nobody else wants to be judged either. So I think we have to remind ourselves of that.

00:04:55:03 – 00:05:16:03
Dr. Mona
Yeah. And the conversation we’re having today is about sweets and treats, you know, basically the yummy things in our life that I think we should all have access to, because why not? It brings us so much joy. I mean, I love cupcakes, I want my son to love cupcakes cuz they are delicious. And the thing is, though, obviously we’re trying to balance sweet and treats and all the things that are yummy in our life with obviously nutrition as well.

00:05:16:03 – 00:05:35:01
Dr. Mona
You know we can’t eat sweet treats all day every day, but how do we balance this? And one of the things that we’re talking about on this episode is putting sweets and treats on a pedestal. So if you can describe to maybe someone who’s listening, what does that mean? And how do we do that, either intentionally or unintentionally?

00:05:35:02 – 00:05:54:16
Jennifer Anderson
Sure. So let’s say you’ve never had an M&M before and I come to you and I say, hey Doctor Mariah, would you like an Eminem? And you’re like, okay, sure. And you eat it and you say, oh, wow, this is delicious. And they say, oh, great. Yeah. And maybe we talk about how delicious and maybe don’t, but then that’s over and then we talk about something else.

00:05:54:18 – 00:06:15:21
Jennifer Anderson
But then maybe I come to you and I say, oh my gosh, I had this amazing, incredible thing today. And because you’ve done such a great job with all of your work, I just really want to bring you this special thing. And here it is on a plate. Your mind is absolutely blown by this thing. It’s Eminem like, and I’m just hyping it up.

00:06:16:00 – 00:06:37:21
Jennifer Anderson
I am hyping it up and and I can tie it into that. I can see, you know what, you’ve had such a long week and you’ve been working so hard. Here are these emblems for you. And all of a sudden I have taken an enjoyable experience and turned it into something else totally different. Now you’ve brought in your emotional state, and I’ve brought in whether you deserve something, and I have just made a really big deal out of those up.

00:06:38:01 – 00:06:59:07
Jennifer Anderson
And sometimes as parents, we unknowingly we do that with Eminem’s are trees are absolutely anything, and that was the first one that came to mind. But it can be absolutely anything. And what we’re doing is we’re bringing more attention to these things then they need to have. Like, yeah, I love my potato chips. I mean, everybody knows the world knows that.

00:06:59:07 – 00:07:24:19
Jennifer Anderson
I’m like potato chip person. Yeah, I love my salads and I love them with potato chips. Yeah, I love it. So, you know, I think sometimes we fall into this trap of thinking good are either good or bad. There is this flag and I think they’re good or bad. And we’ve heard because of this wider diet culture around us, it’s a culture that’s obsessed with thinness and getting the same thing and all this stuff.

00:07:25:01 – 00:07:46:15
Jennifer Anderson
Because of that, we’ve decided that certain foods have a lot of calories or bad, certain foods that have a lot of calories. Good. And so we we’ve dropped this really, unfortunate perspective of food where it’s either good or bad, it’s going to help us see a and or not. And that just just trickled all the way down to how we interact with these foods with our children.

00:07:46:17 – 00:08:06:19
Jennifer Anderson
And adding to that, we know that kids love them and they’re willing to do things for them. And then we’re like, oh, maybe I’ll use them as a reward to, oh, I can get them to eat their broccoli if I bribe them with a lollipop. And what we don’t realize when we’re doing that, along with making it a big deal, is that we’re saying, hey, guess what?

00:08:06:21 – 00:08:30:10
Jennifer Anderson
Broccoli’s bag lollipops are good. Sitting in the car is bad. We all know that. And that’s true. But like and and lollipops are good. And so not only are we making a big deal out of it, but we’re also saying, hey, these things are better, while at the same time we and preschool teachers and everybody is saying, oh, by the way, lollipops are bad for you.

00:08:30:12 – 00:08:55:08
Jennifer Anderson
So we’re kind of giving these kids its like really complicated life perspective of lollipops and candy and treats and like all this stuff because kids are hearing as young as 2 or 3 years old. These treats are bad, right? Like there is a classic, kind of preschool activity sheet out there, like circle the healthy foods, circle the unhealthy foods, and the candy is unhealthy.

00:08:55:10 – 00:09:15:05
Jennifer Anderson
So we’re telling them that at the same time, we’re using the candy as bribes, telling the kids also that it’s good, which makes them like broccoli less. Yeah. And then we’re also saying, oh, hey, this is a really amazing thing. We’re making a really big deal out of it. So we basically it’s complicated. It’s complicated for us.

00:09:15:05 – 00:09:29:19
Jennifer Anderson
And then we’re also just kind of passing that on to the kids. And in the end, what happens is kids really want candy. They want candy. Maybe even more than they would have. And they’re less likely to want the broccoli or, you know, whatever those foods are.

00:09:29:21 – 00:09:43:16
Dr. Mona
But, Jennifer, when I bribe my kid with a M&M, he eats his broccoli and he eats it with me, forcing it into his mouth. So it’s working. But we yes, it is. We know that it’s not. Yes, I like.

00:09:43:18 – 00:09:45:09
Jennifer Anderson
I like to yeah.

00:09:45:11 – 00:09:56:04
Dr. Mona
So that’s that’s what I always hear. Right. Like I’m like no it’s it’s a short term. Like I got it. I got it like this is the secret. The bribing is working. But I know you probably have something to say for that. Yeah.

00:09:56:06 – 00:10:15:07
Jennifer Anderson
Well, here’s how I like to put it. I like to put it like, yes, this is a short term solution. And we can put a hard stop there. We can say, yes, this is a short term solution. The thing is, after that short term solution, we know that when you’re bribing a child to do something, it can decrease their intrinsic motivation.

00:10:15:07 – 00:10:37:14
Jennifer Anderson
What does that mean. So that means their own desire to do something right. So we say, well, yeah, if you’re bribing your child, you probably yes, this could be a short term solution, which if we kind of go down that path, let’s say you have a child who’s in a some sort of medical situation and you really need them to eat X, Y, or Z, and it’s really important for their health right now.

00:10:37:16 – 00:10:55:10
Jennifer Anderson
You know what might be a good solution for you? Bribing your child with them and up now, does that come without risk? No. It’s got a lot of risk that it could possibly come with. But I think this is the kind of nuance that we need to begin to hold on to. Yeah, that might be a short term solution, but also what could happen?

00:10:55:12 – 00:11:15:11
Jennifer Anderson
Your child could stop liking broccoli altogether. And then we take the evidence away. Not they’re not going to eat at all or they’re much less likely to eat all vegetables or or they’re just fine. There’s always that possibility, right? Because we’re working with risk. Just because we bribe a kid, does it mean x, y, z? Well, we don’t know what’s going to happen for real that we might know.

00:11:15:11 – 00:11:42:03
Jennifer Anderson
Well, yeah, your child could become really obsessed with candy, and they might enjoy candy, and they may hide in the closet and eat candy. And that might have kind of tipped the balance for them into being more interesting in candy than they would have been had they not had that bribery happen. At the same time. Like I said, there might be those times where you’re like, you know what, I have to get my child to eat this medication.

00:11:42:05 – 00:12:04:23
Jennifer Anderson
They must be must for their healthy habits. Medication. In that case, that’s what you are weighing the risks and the rewards for one, the pros and the cons of what is going to happen to your child and as parents, I feel like that’s what’s tricky for us is to acknowledge, yeah, there could be a risk. You know, I might just be giving them the Eminem, to get them deep broccoli.

00:12:05:00 – 00:12:19:23
Jennifer Anderson
And it’s not that important. And therefore I might have to deal with the risks later. And now I have a kid who really doesn’t like broccoli said I create more work for myself. Or there might be times where I’m like, yeah, I know there’s risk, but that’s okay. I will deal with those. And right now I need to do this thing.

00:12:20:01 – 00:12:40:19
Jennifer Anderson
So I think it’s tricky and there is a lot of nuance here. And so I always like to think of a parent is bribing their kids with candy right now. It doesn’t mean you’re a bad parent and it doesn’t mean you’re doing a bad job, but it is a good opportunity to say, okay, why am I doing it?

00:12:40:21 – 00:12:50:12
Jennifer Anderson
And is there something else I could do differently that might actually get me to the goal that I want a little bit better than using candy as a bribe?

00:12:50:14 – 00:13:10:14
Dr. Mona
Yeah. And in terms of like, oh, I mean, this is this is something that’s been passed down from like generations to I mean, I remember as a child, and it’s something that I still have put that on the pedestal where it’s like, okay, if you finish this, I’ll will go get ice cream. You know, like, I remember my aunt would come over and she’d be like, if you finish your food and it would.

00:13:10:16 – 00:13:31:22
Dr. Mona
And so you’re doing two things. You’re bribing them, but you’re also not allowing that child to listen to their hunger cues. Yeah. At the meal. Right. It’s to feel like you’re forcing them to finish their plate, which is a whole different conversation, which I, you know, I’m very passionate about too. But then you’re also saying, okay, finish the plate because you’re going to overstuff yourself and not listen to your hunger cues, because when you finish that, we’ll go get ice cream.

00:13:31:22 – 00:13:47:04
Dr. Mona
And I mean, oh my gosh, like, of course, I don’t know a lot of people who don’t love ice cream as long as they’re not got lattice intolerance. And so yeah, I’d be like, okay, let me starve down this food that I’m not even if I like it, I’m not hungry. And I’m like, right, it’s not. And so now not only am I not listening to my cues.

00:13:47:09 – 00:14:09:22
Dr. Mona
I’m looking at the sweet treat as a reward. So we’re doing that. You know, you talked about making a big deal. You talked about okay. Yeah. You eat this, you can have this. And so then it becomes this whole psychological thing. And like, the other thing, you know, I was talking to my husband about is the emotional connection we create with sweets, like, in our culture, like when you’re sad or upset, it’s like, okay, you eat this cookie, like you eat this thing.

00:14:09:22 – 00:14:27:07
Dr. Mona
And not to say that we can’t have cookies when we’re sad. I’m not saying that we can’t eat stuff because it’s happy, right? But there is this sort of like, raising that happened when we were growing up of like, hey, oh, you’re so sad. Okay, have this cookie or have this thing, and there’s a very specific Indian cookie that is called parle-g that was very common.

00:14:27:07 – 00:14:47:10
Dr. Mona
It’s called a glucose biscuit because it has so much sugar. And it’s like your comfort food and right again, comfort. I’m not against comfort foods. I think it’s wonderful. But then, yeah, we’re creating this association, like you said at the beginning that. Yeah. Oh I need I need this to feel better about my day. I deserve this, I deserve because I did X, Y, and Z throughout my day.

00:14:47:14 – 00:14:56:00
Dr. Mona
I deserve to sit down and have a whole thing of cookies, a whole tray of Girl Scout cookies when we’re not learning moderation. And that’s scary, right?

00:14:56:01 – 00:15:13:06
Jennifer Anderson
Yeah, yeah, I failed my first driver’s test when I was 16, and I was devastated. And my mom was like, oh, let’s go out for ice cream. And she go, I don’t know. There’s an ice cream shop that I don’t know. It was like in my memory, it was probably eight inches of like soft serve ice cream and oh, wow.

00:15:13:06 – 00:15:37:03
Jennifer Anderson
And it was like the expectation at that time with whoever was that it was like, because you’re sad, you’re going to eat the whole ice cream cone. And I did and I just remember feeling so sick thinking like, damn I really feeling better. And I think back on that, I, like you said the ability of food to help us feel better can be a gift at times.

00:15:37:05 – 00:16:00:23
Jennifer Anderson
At the same time, personally, I find that not being able to address my emotions and not being able to address the fact that I failed my driver’s test and that really ice cream that was the solution for that. Guess what, ice cream did not solve my problem. Failing my driver’s test, it would have been. And my mom has been great about this.

00:16:00:23 – 00:16:20:18
Jennifer Anderson
This is just one situation, but I think it would have been just as helpful for her to be like, wow, I’m so sorry that you failed that, that you must be so upset. And I think in terms of me and my emotional development, that would have been a much more helpful skill because I’ve had to learn a lot of those skills later as an adult.

00:16:20:18 – 00:16:38:05
Jennifer Anderson
Yeah. And I couldn’t really have used those skills in my 20s when I didn’t have them, because ice cream and cookies were my solution. So I’m like an all like, give me all the solutions, give me the cookies, but also give me the ability to like, yeah, made it to the ability to talk about my emotions.

00:16:38:07 – 00:16:57:16
Dr. Mona
Well, I mean, it’s like it’s like we think about coping skills, right? A healthy yeah, a healthy coping skill is learning how to deal with hard times, whether it’s with a person or yourself, whatever it is. And then using I mean, like I said, I love food, I love sweets, I love cookies, but that is something that we’re trying to teach our Ryan’s older obviously my my daughter’s not really eating cookies yet, but yeah.

00:16:57:18 – 00:17:17:05
Dr. Mona
Is that we’re just having this and I think, yeah, you know, I’m curious your thoughts about the labeling of this. So like, one thing that I tell my husband to stop doing and he’s guilty of it is stop calling them treats or surprises, like, oh, when if you do this, you get a surprise. I’m like, but then we’re also putting it on a pedestal that, oh, you’re you’re this cookie is a surprise.

00:17:17:05 – 00:17:25:07
Dr. Mona
I’m like, just call them cookies. They’re cookies. And we’re going to have cookies. And I don’t know if if the terminology and stuff like that. Do you feel like that matters too? Yeah. Yeah.

00:17:25:07 – 00:17:47:21
Jennifer Anderson
I mean, you know, I think there’s cultural kind of trends right now that every single word matters. And I want to take a little bit of that pressure off of parents who, like every single word that you say, isn’t going to make or break. That said, words are so important, right? So there’s a challenge. And I recently was asked in a Q&A on Instagram, you know, what do you think of the word treat?

00:17:48:02 – 00:18:05:21
Jennifer Anderson
Frankly, I think so many people use the word treats and there’s kind of meaningless, like, you know, my mom said, hey, we’re going to have a treat that could be watching a movie or that movie, right? True. You know, that could be potato chips or it could be who even knows what. It’s such a treat that you homemade this.

00:18:05:23 – 00:18:27:05
Jennifer Anderson
You made this big for me. So I feel like this particular word is so dicey. Somebody asked me, and then I went to the conference where I saw you, and there was literally a sign that said treats. And in there, there was, like, tea, cookies, gum. I mean, it’s like a complete, it was like any food from all sorts of different groups you possibly could have asked for.

00:18:27:06 – 00:18:48:16
Jennifer Anderson
It was like, okay, treats literally can mean anything. I think what you said, though, is when you’re talking about like a surprise now you’re like saying you’re adding like another element where you’re like, oh, this should is like, it’s like when you say this food is healthy or unhealthy, now you’re adding another element to the food. But what does it really mean?

00:18:48:18 – 00:19:11:07
Jennifer Anderson
You’re adding intrigue. You’re adding judgment. Like when I think healthy, unhealthy, that is sometimes, sometimes not always adding an edge of judgment depending on how people are using it. So I think we have to be careful and like you said, we have this amazing vocabulary of food. Every food has its own work. We can be so specific.

00:19:11:09 – 00:19:27:12
Jennifer Anderson
We can talk about different kinds of cookies. We can talk about, you know, oh, I’m going to give you a chocolate chip cookie. I’m going to give you a macadamia nut white chocolate cranberry cookie. You know, whatever it is. I think sometimes we honor use this incredible vocabulary that we have for food.

00:19:27:14 – 00:19:49:01
Dr. Mona
And you had mentioned earlier about the, the obsession or maybe, like what we’re talking about, right. The putting on the pedestal or maybe even restriction of these items. Right. Do you feel like that can lead to that sort of, eating cookies in the closet, like really fast, the obsession, because it’s become so taboo? Or why do you feel like that’s kind of happening from a psychological perspective?

00:19:49:03 – 00:20:16:03
Jennifer Anderson
Yeah. So I think there’s several reasons. I think if you go on Instagram right now, you’re going to find people are like, if you just treat food quote neutrally and by neutrally, they mean, you know, every single food is exactly the same and you would only ever username things like that. Your child will have a good relationship with food and their definition of a good relationship with food is people are going to eat a wide variety of foods and they’re gonna eat, tell they’re hungry, and stop when they’re full.

00:20:16:03 – 00:20:40:04
Jennifer Anderson
And like all these sorts of things. And your child will certainly never end up in the closet eating cookies or grabbing things or sneaking them or like all these different scenarios. And I think in some ways, you know, if you treat food, you don’t hype them up, you know, make an extra big deal out of them. Kids are most likely going to have less of an interest than if you’ve hyped it up.

00:20:40:06 – 00:20:52:23
Jennifer Anderson
Yeah. With that perspective doesn’t take into account is the fact that a lot of foods are actually engineered for us to eat more than our sense of fullness.

00:20:53:01 – 00:20:54:23
Dr. Mona
Like chips and yeah, chips.

00:20:54:23 – 00:21:14:00
Jennifer Anderson
And so they’re of hyper palatable foods, and companies have engineered them and made these recipes with a lot of testing people to try to find out what will make people eat the most of that, that I have a problem with. Like, again, I will eat cookies to feel better. I love a good potato chip when I’m having a bad day.

00:21:14:02 – 00:21:38:17
Jennifer Anderson
It definitely gives me a bump even if I am learning to talk about my emotions. Right? All these things. What the ability of a company to engineer foods is such that I am compelled to eat more than I would want to, to even feel better that I don’t like. And that, I think, is where as parents, we’re stuck in a position where we want to help our kids have a level playing field with food.

00:21:38:19 – 00:22:06:09
Jennifer Anderson
We want them to feel like every food is okay. There’s no judgment. There’s no judgment. If you’re going to have some potato chips, do you feel bad? There’s no judgment for loving potato chips in the first place. But also, I don’t want somebody else telling your brain to override what you would actually want. And I think as parents, we’re kind of stuck in this position of needing to help children navigate this situation of food marketing.

00:22:06:09 – 00:22:30:01
Jennifer Anderson
And part of that is how they’ve engineered the product and also a diet culture. The same foods are good or bad, and you’re bad if you eat too much and you’re good if you don’t eat too much. Right. And sometimes I, I think as parents we get stuck and we just say, okay, let me just pick something and that something is going to be there’s no such thing as bad food, which I actually agree with, right?

00:22:30:06 – 00:22:52:16
Jennifer Anderson
And therefore I’m not going to get involved. My kids are going to be allowed to eat whatever and whenever and how are they want. And they’re never going to end up hiding in the closet and all that. And then all of a sudden the parent realize, or circuit is hiding in the closet eating, or they are seeking foods, or they are potentially eating these foods, and then they think, oh my gosh, I failed my child.

00:22:52:18 – 00:23:20:17
Jennifer Anderson
What did I do wrong? And one thing that is left out of kind of the nuance that’s left out of some of these conversations is many children just interact with sweets differently? Many people do. Right? There’s a sweet tooth. There’s children who are neurodivergent, and they’re all these things are going to affect how a child interacts with sweets and treats or junk food or, you know, whatever you want to call these things.

00:23:20:19 – 00:23:38:02
Jennifer Anderson
And so you may have done all the right things and giving your child an amazing experience with food so that they can have a best relationship with food. And your child may still be totally obsessed with sweets. And that has everything to do with how their brain is structured. And nothing to do with what you actually did at home.

00:23:38:02 – 00:23:52:13
Jennifer Anderson
And so there’s a wide range of experiences with these foods that we have to kind of peel out and navigate and experiment with, because there’s no study that says this is the one way to do it right. When it comes to treat with your kids.

00:23:52:15 – 00:24:07:19
Dr. Mona
And I think that’s what we had talked about before when we were deciding on what to talk about on the episode, is how knowing I agree with you, knowing what we know about the way certain foods, especially engineered by manufacturers, work in our body, and that they are designed to kind of want you to eat a lot of it.

00:24:07:21 – 00:24:25:12
Dr. Mona
So you’ll buy more and all that. How can we balance all of those things that say, okay, we don’t want diet culture, we want to protect your health, but we want you to enjoy sweets and salty sweets, too. I’m going to be honest, I love tips so much. Oh, how like, want a bag right now? But but like, how how do we do that?

00:24:25:12 – 00:24:44:07
Dr. Mona
Like, how can we essentially remove them from the pedestal? I know we’ve spoken about like, you know, putting them with other healthy foods or and things that work, but with other more preferred foods for that meal. But how can we remove them from that pedestal and kind of teach them that maybe we listen to our stomachs more and how we’re feeling with the food, like what you did with ice cream?

00:24:44:07 – 00:25:06:04
Jennifer Anderson
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, right. I think it’s tricky. So when I think about little kids, I always remember I always start with the fact they are not responsible for making any sort of like cognitive decision about what they’re eating. I’m the parent, you know, especially with these younger elementary and below kids. Where are the parent? We’re making the decisions on what’s in our house, what’s available to them.

00:25:06:06 – 00:25:28:23
Jennifer Anderson
And in our house. We do make hyper palatable foods available. That’s part of what we see in other families. And it’s just not part of their culture, their preferences, their ethics, whatever it is, that’s okay. I think every family is going to have to make their decisions about what they’re going to have in their home. But in our house, I like to give kids to experiences.

00:25:29:01 – 00:25:55:15
Jennifer Anderson
One is the ability to eat their fill however much they want. The other is to have experiences where there’s limited amounts of food. We have blueberries. Sorry, not all you can eat those things for 18 bucks a pound. You know, everybody’s getting their fair share. That’s it. Yeah. So generally in our house, if we have dessert with a meal, which, honestly, with toddlers, I find to be such a powerful experience.

00:25:55:18 – 00:26:17:10
Jennifer Anderson
Yeah. Where consistently just a teeny better dessert child sized portion. Nothing they can pull up on, on their plate with the meal and that’s it. I’ve just found that to be so powerful in helping them have just a neutral relationship with dessert. Yeah. In our house, the served at the meal, that’s kind of it. And if it’s served with a snack, they eat as much as they want.

00:26:17:12 – 00:26:36:17
Jennifer Anderson
Yeah. Those two experiences prepare them for the world. Because guess what? We go to the potluck or they go to a birthday party. They can only have one piece of cake. And I want them to be familiar with that experience and be prepared for that and feel the follow the social experience, which is, hey, you get a piece of cake and that’s it, and you move on.

00:26:36:19 – 00:27:00:04
Jennifer Anderson
And also to have a parties where they can have as much cake as they want, and they can also eat what they want and move on. And so I think both of those experiences are really important for a child relationship with food, because to have a good relationship with food, you have to be able to listen to your body, and you also have to be able to exist in different social situations.

00:27:00:06 – 00:27:22:15
Jennifer Anderson
Right? There’s two parts to that. And you also have to be able to just exist in the reality that, no, you can’t have everything you want every single time you eat. If you can. You have such incredible privilege. You know, 99% of the children in the world can’t eat as much as they want of every single food available all the time.

00:27:22:17 – 00:27:40:17
Jennifer Anderson
So if your child can, that’s amazing. But I would also just put forth the value of experiences where they can’t eat everything they want. And that could be of any food. You know, sometimes we run out of chicken, sometimes we run out of bread, sometimes, you know, it’s, you know, prunes. Now you can’t eat however many you want.

00:27:40:18 – 00:27:44:18
Jennifer Anderson
Like there’s a limit on prunes. Oh, right.

00:27:44:20 – 00:28:02:07
Dr. Mona
We don’t I don’t want too much pooping happening, you know, but we say and so. So is it a balance there like it’s in this situation. Like you said, you put like a couple pieces of like, let’s say it’s a cookie or something. With the dinner, in a way, I don’t look at that as portion control and restriction because we’re offering it with the meal.

00:28:02:07 – 00:28:19:07
Dr. Mona
Right. Okay. So I want yeah. Because like for example, we there’s jingle, jingle, it’s like this cookie from Trader Joe’s. So we got some yesterday from our neighbor. And listen it’s delicious okay. It’s like these cups all the chocolate on top. And I love it. And I’m like wow. And Ryan saw it because our neighbor gave it to him and was like, hey, this is for you.

00:28:19:13 – 00:28:33:20
Dr. Mona
And he’s like, oh mommy, can we have it? And I’m like, yeah, let’s put a couple pieces for dinner. And then he ate his tacos, ate the two pieces, and he ate it first, right? He ate the chocolate first. And then my husband and I differ on how we approach. He’s like, no, we’re going to give it after he’s not going to eat it.

00:28:33:20 – 00:28:42:03
Dr. Mona
And I’m like, trust me on this. He will eat his dinner. You were going to put it and then maybe one day he won’t eat his dinner, but he’s not going to get more chocolate jingle jangle.

00:28:42:08 – 00:28:43:15
Jennifer Anderson
Right. That’s what it was like.

00:28:43:15 – 00:28:59:18
Dr. Mona
Yeah. Here’s our food. Here’s our meal. Right. And then maybe tomorrow we’ll have more with the meal. Right. So. And I like that because then it becomes a point where when we went to a party on Thanksgiving, this is my like my dream is that he listened and he had a couple cookies. And then when it was time for cake, he’s like, no mommy, I don’t want the cake.

00:28:59:18 – 00:29:19:15
Dr. Mona
I had too many cookies. I was like, hey, look at you listening to your body. Like I was like, you can have cake if you want it, but you don’t want it. And that’s really cool. So, it’s it’s nice to see that in action, you know, the creating of the level of these foods. The other aspect we’re working on is having my husband get on the same page.

00:29:19:15 – 00:29:21:17
Dr. Mona
So maybe he needs to listen to this.

00:29:21:19 – 00:29:42:09
Jennifer Anderson
And, and, you know, the other reality is, and I like to let parents know, is you might have a child who, like, does just fine in this in some context, and they might eat way more than you ever would hope for. At another thing. Yes, it doesn’t necessarily mean they have a bad relationship with. Yeah, it just means maybe that they have less impulse control.

00:29:42:13 – 00:30:12:11
Jennifer Anderson
Maybe they have less interception, meaning they can’t listen to their hunger and fullness to use as much. Maybe it means that they are just more motivated by that to be flavor. There’s a lot of things that would cause a child to also eat way more than you hoped. It doesn’t mean that you haven’t created a level playing field in your home, because biochemically, for some people, there’s no such thing as a level playing field, and that is something that you don’t have control over.

00:30:12:16 – 00:30:42:02
Jennifer Anderson
Like if there’s a kid with ADHD, their brain structure is such that guess what? It doesn’t matter how much of a level playing field psychologically you provide, there will never be a level playing field biochemically. So in that case, you want to level the playing field psychologically as much as you want, and then you might have to provide more guardrails, more boundaries, less eating opportunities, whatever, to have that sort of situation where you’re giving your child the ability to have a good relationship with food.

00:30:42:04 – 00:31:06:19
Jennifer Anderson
And also just acknowledging their reality that maybe, yeah, they would eat a whole meal of just jellybeans. Yeah. And they would actually love that. And you’re like, okay, well now and then, okay. But I’m not going to provide jellybeans every day because that’s not what my child needs is. Right. So we do I think we have to approach these things.

00:31:06:21 – 00:31:20:11
Jennifer Anderson
And a lot of times if you’re kind of online and you’re exploring these things, you might see very black and white answers like, oh, you can never do this. So you can always do this. You can never restrict, well, guess what? It’s not going to be a level playing field for every child brain just based on that.

00:31:20:11 – 00:31:45:11
Jennifer Anderson
And so sometimes as parents we have to say, okay, I’m not going to make a big deal out of it, but also I’m going to put some restrictions, like we’re only going to have jellybeans one week, or when we have them, we’re only going to have a handful of jellybeans. You know, who knows what your arrangement is going to be, but different families are going to have to feel this out and see, you know, what this looking like.

00:31:45:11 – 00:32:03:10
Jennifer Anderson
And then I also just like to throw in, let’s say you really want to try the dessert on the side of dinner time. You are super into it. It is really working for you. And all of a sudden you are four weeks into this and it is just devastating your family for some reason. Guess what? You can end it.

00:32:03:12 – 00:32:05:19
Dr. Mona
Yeah. That’s the beauty of life.

00:32:05:19 – 00:32:24:17
Jennifer Anderson
You’re a parent, you’re the PTA. You can be like, guess what? You can touch it. You know? Right? To me, I don’t like how this is affecting my child. Yeah. Same with restriction. Let’s say you’re restricting jellybeans to four per meal. Now all of a sudden your child is obsessed with jelly beans. Guess what? You can end that too.

00:32:24:19 – 00:32:57:07
Jennifer Anderson
You can say, no, this is not working. My child is now obsessed with jelly beans. And it’s not worth the broccoli that they’re eating. You can make that change at any time. And it doesn’t mean you failed as a parent. It just means that you realized something isn’t working. You want to try something new, so it’s time to try a new strategy, whatever that is, to try to find that balance that you’re looking for of your child, having a good relationship with their body and a good relationship with food and, you know, their ability to kind of branch out, need a wider variety of foods.

00:32:57:09 – 00:33:06:21
Dr. Mona
I love that. It’s like that was actually a really good final message. Thought I was just going to ask you, like, what would be kind of this encompassing take home motivational message for everyone listening today?

00:33:06:23 – 00:33:31:10
Jennifer Anderson
Yeah. I mean, try something. Yeah. That’s my big thing is like, yeah, yeah. If you’re grabbing your child with candy, maybe try not doing that. If you don’t like how that’s handing out your home. I think we as parents, we do have like, a parent gut. Right? A gut feeling like, do I like what’s happening? If you don’t, it’s okay to make a change.

00:33:31:10 – 00:33:33:15
Jennifer Anderson
And try something new.

00:33:33:17 – 00:33:50:02
Dr. Mona
Yeah, I love this. Oh, it’s such a pleasure chatting with you again. I’m so glad that of all, like my social media followers and the people I connect with, I’m so glad that I got to meet you in real life. That was super cool, and I hope to be able to meet more people that I follow. Where can people find you to stay connected?

00:33:50:02 – 00:33:53:02
Dr. Mona
I’m sure many people already know who you are, but if they don’t.

00:33:53:04 – 00:34:12:08
Jennifer Anderson
Yeah. So where it could be color on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, you know, all those fun places. Also, kitchen color.com. That’s where to find us. So if you’ve got a picky eater, if you are struggling with your child’s relationship with food, we can help get you some of the tools so that you can try something wonderful.

00:34:12:08 – 00:34:32:03
Dr. Mona
And I hope that you all listening. Got some tangible tips here to really help change the sort of narrative on how you’re approaching sweet treats, whatever you want to call it in your home, and sort of normalizing the fact that we don’t want good food, bad food labels. It is really important. I could talk to you forever about this, and I’m sure I’ll have you back on the show again for future episodes.

00:34:32:05 – 00:34:33:13
Dr. Mona
Thank you again for joining us.

00:34:33:13 – 00:34:35:08
Jennifer Anderson
Yeah. Thank you so much for having me.

00:34:35:10 – 00:34:55:17
Dr. Mona
And for everyone listening. Make sure you follow Jennifer and her team at Kids Eating Color Up. They provide amazing information as to, all the things you just mentioned. And if you love this episode, make sure you leave a review, share it on your social media channels. Tag feedstock talk and kids eating color. Share the love so that more people can discover this conversation as well as the show.

00:34:55:17 – 00:34:57:13
Dr. Mona
And I cannot wait to chat next time.

00:34:57:13 – 00:35:13:05
Dr. Mona
Thank you for tuning in for this week’s episode. As always, please leave a review. Share this episode with a friend. Share it on your social media. Make sure to follow me at PedsDocTalk on Instagram and subscribe to my YouTube channel, PedsDocTalk TV. We’ll talk to you soon.