The goal of parenting should be to foster the growth and development of the child in front of us, and part of this is guiding them through experiences and things that may make them more anxious. I welcome Dr. Melissa Giglio, a child clinical psychologist, author, and director of a private practice in Hong Kong.

We discuss:

• How we can nurture bravery and confidence in our children
• Strategies to “push’ our child in healthy ways
• Ways to validate their experience as they grow through new situations

For more about Dr. Melissa Giglio, check out her website Bravemightyminds.com.

00:00:01:03 – 00:00:22:27
Dr. Melissa Giglio
So our mantra is uncomfortable being uncomfortable, and it’s assessing our danger right now. Like, are they safe? And I think that’s the checkpoint for us as adults. And if you know they’re fine, but they’re feeling distressed, how can we take it back a step but not remove them from the situation? So as caregivers, our instinct is to run in and protect and maybe scoop up.

00:00:23:03 – 00:00:35:15
Dr. Melissa Giglio
And it sends a message even to your body, like we just I have to protect you right now as opposed to your guide. I’m here with you. When you’re comfortable, we’ll do a little more. This is good for right now. And just sitting with them.

00:00:35:18 – 00:01:07:10
Dr. Mona
Hello, everyone and welcome back to the PedsDocTalk podcast. This podcast grows because of you and your reviews. So keep leaving those reviews, updating them when an episode really resonates with you. Like this one, and sharing the show with anyone that you know in social media groups with your friends and family in real life. It really helps the show continue to be a top 50 parenting podcast in the United States, and I love inviting guests to talk about all things parenting, health, child development, and especially international guests.

00:01:07:10 – 00:01:31:12
Dr. Mona
And so today I have Doctor Melissa Giglio, who is a child clinical psychologist, author and director of a private practice in Hong Kong who has devoted her career to providing evidence based therapies to help families function better. And we’re talking about raising brave kids. And how much should I be pushing my child? Thank you so much for joining me today, Doctor Giglio.

00:01:31:15 – 00:01:33:21
Dr. Melissa Giglio
Thank you for having me. I’m very excited to be here.

00:01:33:24 – 00:01:38:03
Dr. Mona
Thank you. And so introduce yourself and more about yourself and also the book that.

00:01:38:03 – 00:02:02:13
Dr. Melissa Giglio
You wrote about bravery. Yeah. So, I am a clinical psychologist. I am the director of a practice and I specialize in the treatment of children who have anxiety or ADHD. Kind of. I do the full spectrum. I’m also a mom of three, so I am living it in the trenches with raising kids and managing, working, helping them grow into brave little people.

00:02:02:15 – 00:02:23:29
Dr. Melissa Giglio
And that’s really what kind of prompted me to want to write a book during Covid. That really talked about how we all have bravery to grow, and it might not be the same for one kid to the next, but really normalizing that we are all having things that we want to improve, that we want to get better at, we wanna get stronger at, and that we want to really feel proud of ourselves for achieving.

00:02:23:29 – 00:02:24:18
Dr. Melissa Giglio
Oh.

00:02:24:20 – 00:02:40:16
Dr. Mona
Well, I love that you’re talking about the difference in child. You know, that’s something that I always like to stress to a lot of parents who forget that even parents of two children, you know, they’ll say, well, one thing works with my child or this child tends to be a little different or more reserved or cautious, if you will, when it comes to new experiences.

00:02:40:16 – 00:02:56:08
Dr. Mona
So I love that you’re talking about how bravery grows with the child, because it is a great way of framing what bravery is. So what is bravery to you? What does it look like? How would you define it to a parent who is, you know, struggling with a child who may be more cautious?

00:02:56:11 – 00:03:24:22
Dr. Melissa Giglio
So bravery to me is anything that a child is really having to grow their muscles to do, not even just physical muscles, but their mental muscle with persistence or how they have an attitude towards trying new things or towards being challenged. And they’re all growing their bravery by working towards improving or just attempting new things, not even necessarily achieving, not necessarily winning, but really the effort and the attitude towards doing so.

00:03:24:22 – 00:03:29:05
Dr. Melissa Giglio
That’s really about how you can grow bravery and what bravery is to me.

00:03:29:07 – 00:03:35:29
Dr. Mona
I love that and how can we nurture that and also the confidence that may come with that process.

00:03:36:01 – 00:03:57:18
Dr. Melissa Giglio
So I think the first thing is to notice when your child is really struggling with their attitudes towards certain tasks, they’re getting frustrated when they might be engaging some negative self-talk. And that’s really a good opportunity to say, this is an opportunity for us to say, you’re just not there yet and you just haven’t grown your brave muscles, and then you can help problem solve with them for how they can do that.

00:03:57:22 – 00:04:28:09
Dr. Melissa Giglio
What is it that they can do that will take small steps to build that bravery so they can reach that end goal? You know, is it that they want to learn how to shoot goals? Is it that they want to be a better reader, or they want to know how to spell more words, whatever it is that is their bravery to grow and noticing their little steps towards that and praising them for it so they can start to really build that positive self-talk themselves for facing challenges and being able to persist even when it’s that easy.

00:04:28:11 – 00:04:45:29
Dr. Mona
Oh, and I you know, as a parent, I have a four year old and a six month old at the time of this recording, and obviously for my four year old. And it applies to the little baby, too, when you see them and those, you know, their cognitive wheels kind of click when they finally are able to reach something that they maybe couldn’t like a few weeks ago or a month ago.

00:04:45:29 – 00:05:00:09
Dr. Mona
And, especially with my four year old, I’m sure you can relate to that. As a mom of three, like, he used to be so afraid of heights, you know, like in terms of at the jungle gym or we went to New York City and they have those platforms, you know, on the high floors, like the World Trade Center, platforms.

00:05:00:13 – 00:05:14:28
Dr. Mona
And there would be a glass and he’d be like, I don’t want to step on it. I’m going to fall through. And now, you know, as pushing him and getting him through that. Now he’s so confident and he’s so proud of himself. Like you said, that self-confidence comes through. And that is such a joy to see as a parent.

00:05:14:28 – 00:05:15:29
Dr. Mona
I love it.

00:05:16:01 – 00:05:37:25
Dr. Melissa Giglio
It’s wonderful just to enjoy that moment to to really be the wheels, turning them, wanting to do it, the hesitation, you being this calm, confident comfort for them to say like, I know you can do it if we try, how can I help you? How can I encourage you? I believe in you, and then they can believe in themselves, and then they can push themselves comfortably at their own pace to be able to do those things.

00:05:37:25 – 00:05:47:23
Dr. Melissa Giglio
So I think that’s another part of building bravery. It’s not it’s pieces, the adults, it’s a therapist, and it’s what they want to grow in. And how can we support and nurture that.

00:05:47:25 – 00:06:15:21
Dr. Mona
And, you know, a lot of times parents will talk about how sometimes they may not be brave in a certain situation, but they’re trying to teach their child bravery. I’m using the example of my husband doesn’t know how to swim, so he’s scared of swimming, and he is trying to foster bravery with my son in swimming. And so how would you you know, what would be your advice or kind of recommendations to a parent who wants to teach their child how to be brave in a certain situation that they may be still struggling with, themselves?

00:06:15:23 – 00:06:33:27
Dr. Melissa Giglio
I love that example because I think that’s a way to, first of all, really normalize that. We as parents are not perfect, but we have things we are always working on. There’s things that we’re thinking about we want to improve on, and also why we’re prioritizing that as something that’s important to them. So swimming’s a great one because it’s a safety thing.

00:06:33:27 – 00:06:57:00
Dr. Melissa Giglio
Like we want kids to be safe. And by slowly helping them feel comfortable in the water, by understanding water safety, by helping them to go deeper and feel safe and know that they can float like those are all building great muscles in building that comfort. And then with that comes more confidence. It comes jumping off the edge becomes going into the deeper end, but it never goes with throwing them in the deep end.

00:06:57:00 – 00:07:14:16
Dr. Melissa Giglio
Right? Like your husband would be okay with that. Why would your kid? But just thinking about how, you know, that’s challenging for him and and saying like, this is something I wish I could have been better at, that I didn’t have the opportunity to really face that fear, and I’m working on it, too. Again, that’s normalizing. We all have bravery to grow.

00:07:14:19 – 00:07:18:18
Dr. Mona
Yeah. And I think it’s so beautiful to see that as a parent. You know, like when.

00:07:18:18 – 00:07:19:01
Dr. Melissa Giglio
You.

00:07:19:08 – 00:07:36:17
Dr. Mona
Maybe like, for example, my husband in the swimming, like he knows that he wants to learn how to do that. And his son is now inspiring him to do that. Right? Like he’s like his son’s bravery is showing my husband that I can do this too, even as an adult. So I think it’s such a beautiful relationship when you’re able to see bravery through the eyes of your child.

00:07:36:17 – 00:07:53:13
Dr. Mona
And then also for us as well to say, you know what, my four year old look at how brave he is. Like I could be more brave to take on maybe this new adventure in my business, or this new thing that I was wanting to do for a long time. And I think that that bravery is contagious, and it’s pretty cool to see that process.

00:07:53:15 – 00:08:11:12
Dr. Melissa Giglio
It definitely is. And I think it’s just really that open mindedness for possibilities. And we want our kids to have that attitude towards anything that is based in front of them. Be academic, be it social, you know, be it just physical challenges. We want them to know that they don’t have to get everything right away. And most things do take time.

00:08:11:12 – 00:08:34:22
Dr. Melissa Giglio
They take planning and they take practice because that’s the resilience we really want our kids to develop. And that, okay, it didn’t work this time I fell down. What am I going to do? I should get back up and give it a go. You know, you can relate it to bicycle riding like kids fall down a lot. It’s really scary and they rely on us to be that support, but they feel so good when they can do it in balance and take off on their own.

00:08:34:23 – 00:08:44:25
Dr. Melissa Giglio
It’s just the best feeling. And when they first start, you reflect on it. It was so scary. It felt too hard. I wasn’t ready, but then I worked and then I got there.

00:08:44:28 – 00:09:04:04
Dr. Mona
Oh yes. And you know, for that more cautious child and I don’t know if you prefer better terminology, I would love to be corrected if you think. But for that child who’s maybe learning how to be, you know, more into something new, what would be some strategies to push your child in a healthy way? Obviously understanding their development, understanding that no two kids are the same.

00:09:04:06 – 00:09:11:23
Dr. Melissa Giglio
Yeah. I think quite often to the firstborn who tends to be a bit more cautious and careful because, you know, I think we’re a bit more cautious and careful with our first.

00:09:12:00 – 00:09:12:22
Dr. Mona
It’s true.

00:09:12:25 – 00:09:17:19
Dr. Melissa Giglio
Yeah, it’s very true. Just as parents, you know, I think for the second one, you’re like, it’s cool.

00:09:17:21 – 00:09:20:05
Dr. Mona
Yeah. Whatever you felt like. Sounds good. You’re okay.

00:09:20:05 – 00:09:40:06
Dr. Melissa Giglio
Yeah, I am ready to do the daredevil, but I think you’re taking calculated risk. I think it’s noticing the little steps that they’re taking. I think it’s encouraging them to think about it, though. I think you can do it. I’ll be right here. And letting them feel it out. Just like your example of, you know, looking over the glass at a height like, that’s scary.

00:09:40:14 – 00:09:54:16
Dr. Melissa Giglio
But to say like, okay, I’m getting closer. Okay. Too bad. Okay, I think I can do a little more and just letting them be where they are. And then in that way, so brave that you did that. I don’t think I would have been able to do that at four. You do it on top of a high building.

00:09:54:21 – 00:10:13:29
Dr. Melissa Giglio
You look down like, oh, a dog can even do that. You are the bravest kid and really just have them be like, I am brave. Like, that was really great that I did that because they can continue to apply those lessons when that feeling comes back. And, you know, we want our kids to have a certain amount of caution where they’re thinking about things, stop and think.

00:10:14:02 – 00:10:33:23
Dr. Melissa Giglio
But we don’t want it to be too much that it’s hindering them from trying. We want them to stay like me. And then if it feels too hard to say, you know what? I am not there yet, and that’s okay. How can I make sure it’ll be okay in case? Like, there’s a perfect kind of sweet spot between pushing too hard and too fast in between.

00:10:33:23 – 00:10:54:17
Dr. Melissa Giglio
This is the just right zone of how much discomfort I can take. We just don’t want kids to be avoidant of anything that’s new. That feels too hard. Yeah, ultimately we want them to say like, why does this feel hard exactly. It. I don’t feel like strong enough yet. I’m not sure what’s going to happen. All of the things we want to really help them not avoid things because they feel too scared.

00:10:54:17 – 00:11:02:09
Dr. Melissa Giglio
We want them to make that choice, to say, you know what, I don’t think I like this too much, so that’s okay. I, I’m not going to give this a go right now.

00:11:02:12 – 00:11:22:22
Dr. Mona
Now let’s take a break to hear from our sponsors. Yeah. And I guess that’s another, you know, a segue of a topic that always comes up is that sort of balance of, okay, I know my child is still learning how to navigate this new situation that they’re maybe a little more fearful of. But what is that balance of exposure versus not going right?

00:11:22:22 – 00:11:45:01
Dr. Mona
Because I do see sometimes parents because their kid is so upset and I’m going back to the swimming example because I do believe swimming is a very important thing, like as a skill. But then we see children who scream and cry and of course they’re toddlers, so they’re younger. Maybe they’re older and they’re screaming and crying, but where is that balance of saying, like, is there a moment where we have to tell ourselves it’s time to tap out, it’s time to give them more time for their age?

00:11:45:08 – 00:12:01:13
Dr. Mona
Because I also do agree that exposure is really important to things like it’s actually safety stuff, you know, especially things in our environment, like my son used to be afraid of the sand, like at the beach, but the sand is part of our life living in Florida. So I’m like, I need him to learn that sand is a part of our life.

00:12:01:18 – 00:12:13:01
Dr. Mona
He may not like it on his hand, but he’s safe. We’re with him. We can wipe it off. So what would be that sort of balance on when we say tap out? Versus how much am I going to keep exposing to the situation?

00:12:13:01 – 00:12:36:14
Dr. Melissa Giglio
I feel like you are already living kind of an exposure lifestyle, which I love because, you know, as an anxiety therapist, that’s pretty much what we do. So our mantra is for getting comfortable being uncomfortable. And it’s affecting our danger right now, like are these days. And I think that’s the checkpoint for us as adults. And if you know they’re fine but they’re feeling distress, how can we take it back in depth but not remove them from the situation?

00:12:36:19 – 00:13:00:24
Dr. Melissa Giglio
So as caregivers, our instinct is to run in and protect and maybe scoop up and it sends a message even through your body language is I have to protect you right now as opposed to your guide. I’m here with you. When you’re comfortable, we’ll do a little more. This is good for right now. And just sitting with them, you know, anxiety is this way where it rises up and it feels really bad, but it always comes back down.

00:13:00:27 – 00:13:21:02
Dr. Melissa Giglio
So if you take them out of that opportunity before they’ve had that chance, the anxiety go down. You’re reinforcing that this is too scary for me. I can’t do that. And we want them to know that it gets better. The longer that you’re there. And when they’re ready, they can go in. So for swimming is the perfect example because a lot of kids are really uncomfortable for a long time.

00:13:21:04 – 00:13:39:17
Dr. Melissa Giglio
But they can sit on the edge, they can dip their toes in and take their feet. And when they feel a little bit braver, they can do a little bit more. And that to me is a win for the more cautious kid. If they do that, even if it’s over session, I think for parents there’s also this distress of am I doing harm if I keep them in it for too long?

00:13:39:17 – 00:14:01:05
Dr. Melissa Giglio
And if you know that they’re safe and they’re starting to regulate, then there is no harm. In fact, what you’re doing is creating new neural pathways of I can get used to something. This is a new experience, and I can do it. And it feels good to be able to try a little more every time. And again, the success isn’t they jump in and do it successfully is they keep trying to do it.

00:14:01:07 – 00:14:15:19
Dr. Melissa Giglio
And that’s really the shift for parents. Is that trusting that, you know, your instinct, they’re not in danger. You would never put your child in danger intentionally, and especially in Florida. I mean, you hear stories all the time. There’s so many accidents there.

00:14:15:21 – 00:14:17:06
Dr. Mona
And yeah.

00:14:17:08 – 00:14:33:03
Dr. Melissa Giglio
Necessity. And, you know, this is why ESR classes even came about. Like it is critical and nobody can do it. So we need to help our kids feel comfortable so we can actually feel comfortable as adults. Like how much better do we feel around water if our kids say.

00:14:33:06 – 00:14:48:23
Dr. Mona
Oh yeah, and I mean, I, you know, my son is now a fish in water, but initially, you know, he started at what, like 13 months, so many tears, so many tears. And I went back, you know, I went back to exactly what you mentioned of like, hey, he is safe. That’s exactly because when, especially with anxiety, right.

00:14:48:26 – 00:15:05:16
Dr. Mona
Anxiety happens because we feel unsafe or we feel like a threat to our environment, like there’s no threat to him. He is with an instructor who knows how to handle this. He is safe and his peers and his mama. Mama, I’m going to be there at the end. It’s not going to, you know? And then we did do a like gradual like I’d be in here, in there with him.

00:15:05:16 – 00:15:28:04
Dr. Mona
I move myself out, sit outside. He would watch me, and eventually would go in. But now, you know, it happens that they grow with it. And he now loves it, and there’s no need. He’s like, no, mama, you go inside. I was like, okay, here we go. This is a growth. But, you know, as I said, as a parent, it’s so beautiful to see where they come from when they move through their bravery, using the being on high heights.

00:15:28:04 – 00:15:48:02
Dr. Mona
And then also the fact that with those swimming, it’s such a cool process in that cognitive brain of like, self-confidence and, self growth to be like, hey, I can do this, and I did this and you said it already, like the I can’t do it yet. You know, it’s something that will happen. And sometimes kids forget it, but we are the ones who have to believe it also.

00:15:48:04 – 00:16:10:17
Dr. Melissa Giglio
Absolutely. But we need to be comfortable with our kids to stress, to to know that, yes, they’re not in too much distress. They’re feeding off of us. So the more confident we are, Emerson, the more we emanate that to them. They’re going to be like, oh, it’s okay. It’s just like when your toddler falls and at first, you know, the gut is like, oh, and then we learned about like, you’re good while you’re like assessing the situation, but you’re like, it’s okay.

00:16:10:17 – 00:16:27:26
Dr. Melissa Giglio
And then they get like, oh yeah, I’m fine. And then you feel better. But if you overreact, they’re going to overreact. So you need to know and really have a good sense of the situation. Again, you wouldn’t put your kid in danger. But we do want them to feel like they can do things independently. And how beautiful.

00:16:27:29 – 00:16:41:23
Dr. Melissa Giglio
And like, I’m good. Mom, you go inside. This is my thing now. I mean, that’s that’s what we want. We want our kids to feel that confidence because we know you’re going to be where you’re supposed to be when they want to come back and feedback to you, how they did and how proud they are.

00:16:41:25 – 00:16:56:18
Dr. Mona
And you already mentioned, like the terminology of validation, like you talked about, obviously, how you can’t do that yet, but are there any other terms that you love to share with families in terms of when their child is feeling nervous or scared, to validate them and then eventually help them push out of that comfort zone?

00:16:56:21 – 00:17:12:18
Dr. Melissa Giglio
So yeah, so I do a lot of reframing where I cannot say I don’t want to do that. And you say, oh, it sounds like you’re feeling like this is going to be hard. I think you can do it. How can I help you? Let’s figure out a way to do it. So it’s really about collective kind of collaborative problem solving, I find to be really helpful.

00:17:12:20 – 00:17:33:03
Dr. Melissa Giglio
I think reflecting what they say, but not feeding too far into it. Right. Not like listening. Remember, you have a four year old. So if they say, no, I don’t like that, and you listen to that, they would eat nothing but, you know, ice cream and potato chips. Yeah. Like we have to help them say, oh, you’re not sure you like that or this isn’t your favorite thing, but we’re going to have it anyway.

00:17:33:06 – 00:17:54:02
Dr. Melissa Giglio
Because we know, you know, we’re trying to build kind of that tolerance for more things. So we have to be okay with pushing them a bit while supporting them while being reasonable as well. You know, we don’t want to be like, no, you’re going down this high slide when it’s too much for them. But we could say, I’ll go up on the slide with you at the top, and then we can look down and when you’re ready, you can go.

00:17:54:02 – 00:18:19:10
Dr. Melissa Giglio
And if you don’t feel ready you don’t have to. So you’re getting the opportunity. You’re giving the exposure, but you’re also giving them the permission to notice and check in with themselves if they feel ready or not. And there’s no shame associated with them changing their mind. I think that’s the biggest thing is, you know, not feeling frustrated, not being disappointed, being really encouraging and also reassuring to them that they’ll get there.

00:18:19:13 – 00:18:26:07
Dr. Melissa Giglio
They’re just, you know, they need their time and it will happen eventually and they can keep trying again. It doesn’t have to happen in a day.

00:18:26:10 – 00:18:40:01
Dr. Mona
Yeah. And I think so much of us, you know, parents, not just in our generation, but many generations are so focused on that end goal. Right. Like, okay, my kid’s going to do this and they have to swim and they have to go down the slide. And they got to do this. And then we forget the whole process that’s involved to get there.

00:18:40:01 – 00:18:59:26
Dr. Mona
Right? I mean, some of us are so blessed that maybe we don’t need a lot of exposures. And it’s just, you know, because of temperament, right? Like some kids are just easier temperament, some are more slower to warm to these situations. And I love your perspective because I share that, really looking at the child in front of you and how even in the same family and twins, everyone’s going to be different.

00:18:59:26 – 00:19:02:05
Dr. Mona
And how can we foster that bravery?

00:19:02:07 – 00:19:21:08
Dr. Melissa Giglio
Absolutely. But also remembering, like everyone’s journey is a bit different. So, you know, if you think of kids who are some kids are just agile and strong and like motivated like one other kid, like hanging on the one. And it’s like, I don’t know how to do this. And they might not have the body strength yet or have the coordination to be able to move.

00:19:21:10 – 00:19:39:08
Dr. Melissa Giglio
And they need the support and guidance of like do the next to do the next one or good hanging on there. I can’t wait to see how long you can hang there without having you failed because you didn’t do the whole monkey bars like this little girl did it? You did great for today, and eventually the pride they have when they’re able to be like to you and I did.

00:19:39:10 – 00:19:46:27
Dr. Melissa Giglio
I did the whole monkey bars, and they’re just so proud of themselves. And we’re just able to be there cheering them on, which is the best.

00:19:47:00 – 00:19:54:23
Dr. Mona
So it is the best. Oh, this was such a great conversation. What would be any other final message that you wanted to share with all of our listeners?

00:19:54:26 – 00:20:20:00
Dr. Melissa Giglio
I think the biggest thing is to really normalize when your kids are so into so much better than me at this, or I can’t do this, and so-and-so’s better at writing stories or, the words to say really normalize. We all have different things that we’re working on, and what’s the thing that you want to work on? And then we can work on it together and that that’s how we’re going to grow our brain muscles and to continue to kind of identify different things that we want to grow, that bravery.

00:20:20:00 – 00:20:39:14
Dr. Melissa Giglio
And so it’s not just one thing, one and done. It’s we’re always trying to improve in little ways and then share what you’re also working on to what goals are you setting for yourself. And if you do end up having an obstacle, how do you problem solve your way through it? What did you do to be able to manage that situation effectively?

00:20:39:14 – 00:20:56:01
Dr. Melissa Giglio
Because that’s going to help them know, wow, you do it too. It’s an easy means to grow it. You’re also growing your bravery. So I think those are probably the biggest take homes is that we all have our own bravery to grow, and it just takes time to explain it to support. And it takes believing in yourself.

00:20:56:01 – 00:20:58:09
Dr. Melissa Giglio
And that’s what we want them to do.

00:20:58:11 – 00:21:06:03
Dr. Mona
I love this. This is such a great conversation. Where can people find you to stay connected with your resources? And obviously your book as well?

00:21:06:05 – 00:21:24:09
Dr. Melissa Giglio
Yeah. So our website is Brave Money Mindset. Com and we have a list of resources there. And we’re creating more webinars. Because our goal is really to provide resources to educators, to parents, to everybody, so that they really can learn strategies to help themselves.

00:21:24:11 – 00:21:29:06
Dr. Mona
Well, I will be adding that to our show notes. And thank you so much for joining us today.

00:21:29:09 – 00:21:31:15
Dr. Melissa Giglio
Wonderful. Thank you so much for having me. It’s been a pleasure.

00:21:31:17 – 00:21:50:23
Dr. Mona
Yeah. And for everyone listening, if you are trying to raise a brave child, if you are learning to be brave yourself, make sure you leave a review. I’m sure this episode really resonated with you. I love chatting with Doctor Melissa about all of this information. Reminder that your reviews really help the show continue to grow, and I cannot wait to talk to another guest next time.

00:21:50:23 – 00:22:06:16
Dr. Mona
Thank you for tuning in for this week’s episode. As always, please leave a review. Share this episode with a friend. Share it on your social media. Make sure to follow me at PedsDocTalk on Instagram and subscribe to my YouTube channel, PedsDocTalk TV. We’ll talk to you soon.