One of my favorite things about this podcast is meeting and talking to other experts in the field of pediatrics.

There is no better expert than a mom.

I started this series: “A mother’s message” to invite mothers to share their stories.

Our stories can help others and I am so excited to welcome @abbyrosegreen in honor of World Down syndrome Day.

We discuss her family’s journey when they found out their son has Down syndrome, the misconceptions out there regarding Down syndrome, and some of the invisible struggles that others may not realize.

Abby’s message is so important for the world to hear and I’m so honored she joined me today for this very important epiosde.

00;00;08;09 – 00;00;29;12

Dr. Mona

Hello and welcome to this episode. I’m so excited to welcome Abby Green. She is a mother of three and host of the Herself Podcast, and you can find her on Instagram as at Abby Rose green. And we are talking all about down syndrome today in honor of World Down Syndrome Day on March 21st. Thank you so much for joining me, Abby.

 

00;00;29;14 – 00;00;31;02

Abby Green

Well, thank you for having me.

 

00;00;31;05 – 00;00;36;14

Dr. Mona

So tell me a little bit more about yourself, why you started your Instagram account and also your podcast.

 

00;00;36;16 – 00;00;52;03

Abby Green

Yes, yes. So we really started just to help women get one step ahead of where they are today. Like, it’s so easy to get caught up in the comparison game trying to live someone else’s life. But then we find that we really end up being just unfulfilled and like our core values, they really start to be violated when we do that.

 

00;00;52;03 – 00;01;07;05

Abby Green

So that’s where the Herzl Podcast really came to be. I hosted with my friend Amy Kieffer, and it’s just been it’s just been a blessing to be able to build this community and really see into the lives of other women, while also kind of figuring out our own lives. I’m going through it. We have a lot of different guests on, and it’s been true blessing.

 

00;01;07;05 – 00;01;26;13

Abby Green

We really talk about some of the important and uncomfortable stuff. So mental health, we talk about money, we talk about intimacy. We get into things with our kids, toddler tantrums and our guest experts. They just then a wealth of knowledge, like being able to cast that net and learn more from the experts. It’s just been so valuable. And then as far as the Instagram, it’s really an extension of of all of this.

 

00;01;26;13 – 00;01;50;21

Abby Green

So not only on the herself podcast page, but then also on my personal account, we’ve been able to really pull in like the value and the meaning behind all the different episodes that we have, but more over what my Instagram has kind of morphed into in the last year is that when we first learned that our baby was going to be born with Down’s syndrome, the books, the conversations like just the stigmas in society, the Google research, it was all pretty terrifying, like it was a pretty scary place.

 

00;01;50;21 – 00;01;55;12

Abby Green

So I’m really hoping that our story with Owen and that our message can kind of bring a light to all of this.

 

00;01;55;14 – 00;02;17;05

Dr. Mona

Well, I’m so glad I found you. I’ve mentioned this before that I am on Instagram, and then I find these accounts on Instagram and when I see it, I’m like, how did I not follow this account before? So how I kind of came about is I wanted to welcome a mother who has a child with Down’s syndrome on my podcast, and I asked my followers, does anyone know anyone who would be willing to come on the podcast?

 

00;02;17;05 – 00;02;36;21

Dr. Mona

And so many of my followers mentioned you. And so I went to your account and I’m like, oh my gosh, like, this is so great. I saw that you had a podcast. I dmed you, you were more than willing, which was just so awesome. And it’s just so nice following you. I love the things you share not only about your journey with Owen, but also, like you said from the herself podcast, just motherhood in general.

 

00;02;36;21 – 00;02;54;05

Dr. Mona

So your page is so awesome and your podcast with your friend Amy is also amazing. As a fellow podcaster, you know, I listen to it and I’m like, oh my gosh, like your energy and the way you guys, obviously, because you are friends to the way you, talk to each other and the topics you bring up are so great.

 

00;02;54;05 – 00;03;04;28

Dr. Mona

So I will link everything on my show notes for anyone who’s interested, because there’s just so much that we can learn by listening to other conversations from other moms, their experiences. So I can’t wait to talk to you today.

 

00;03;04;28 – 00;03;07;07

Abby Green

Amazing. Yeah, it’s it’s fun. It’s been fun.

 

00;03;07;12 – 00;03;13;06

Dr. Mona

Yeah. So thank you again. So what stigmas do you believe are out there regarding Down’s syndrome?

 

00;03;13;20 – 00;03;27;19

Abby Green

There’s so many stigmas and it’s hard to admit, but I had a lot of the same stigma. That’s like, I had a lot of the same misconceptions before we had. Oh, and before we learned about everything that Owen is and what he represents. I think a lot of people think of people with Down’s syndrome as not being very smart.

 

00;03;27;28 – 00;03;43;08

Abby Green

But I can tell you that there is a brightness in Owen’s eyes that you can just tell that he is learning and loving about the world. And now being a mom of three, like every single child, learns differently. So everyone’s on their own little growth curve, and Owen is just going to be on a different one altogether.

 

00;03;43;08 – 00;03;59;16

Abby Green

I also think a lot of people feel like those with down syndrome can’t quite contribute to society. But what I’m learning is that there are business owners, there’s Ironman triathletes, there’s speakers, there’s actors who are all living and thriving with down syndrome. And that just gives us a lot of hope to like having a child with Down’s syndrome.

 

00;03;59;16 – 00;04;15;15

Abby Green

The adult years are still a little bit scary for us, and seeing these people thriving, it just it brings us a lot of hope. Yeah, finally, I think a lot of people and I also like I’m learning this now, but like can people down syndrome drive? Can they go to college? Can they live on their own? Can they get married?

 

00;04;15;15 – 00;04;36;05

Abby Green

And they can like all of those things are definite possibilities. And I’m not sure if Owen will want to do any of these, but if he’s interested, like, we are definitely going to encourage him and support him and all those pieces that he that he wants to do. It’s just so interesting because 6000 babies are born with Down’s syndrome every year, and there’s been times in history where it was far less because these stigmas overtook people.

 

00;04;36;10 – 00;04;50;27

Abby Green

And like the prenatal testing and talking about abortion like those were those are the things that got brought up when someone was told that they would have Down’s syndrome. And I’m just really glad that we live in a world where people with Down’s syndrome are born and are thriving and are really teaching us a lot about life.

 

00;04;51;00 – 00;05;15;10

Dr. Mona

Oh, that’s so great to hear. I love talking to you about this because I agree, there is a lot of misconceptions and stigmas out there, and the reason why I wanted to talk to you is to break all of that down. And to just kind of educate people, inspire people if they’re going through similar things. Right. Because I think there is some isolation that happens when that diagnosis is made or when a parent may find out about their child potentially having Down’s syndrome.

 

00;05;15;10 – 00;05;20;23

Dr. Mona

So I think it’s so great that we can talk about this. When did you find out own hair Down’s syndrome.

 

00;05;20;25 – 00;05;29;23

Abby Green

So we found out in April of 2020. So think back almost a year ago now. It was the middle of the pandemic and we didn’t do I know it was.

 

00;05;29;25 – 00;05;31;00

Speaker 3

It was hard. It was like one thing.

 

00;05;31;00 – 00;05;46;04

Abby Green

On top of another. But, we didn’t do any of the early prenatal testing. So I know around like 11 weeks or in that first trimester you can do some testing. And we didn’t do any prenatal chromosomal testing with any of our children. First of all, we weren’t really at risk and then it would have changed anything. So we just chose to not do it.

 

00;05;46;06 – 00;06;02;04

Abby Green

And at the 20 week anatomy scan. So again, it’s April. My husband can’t even be there. I’m in this room by myself. Everyone is masked. This is usually the appointment where you find out if you’re having a boy or a girl and we didn’t find that out. We kept gender a surprise until, until he was born. But we did find out a lot more.

 

00;06;02;05 – 00;06;16;07

Abby Green

And I remember that, like, the tech kept leaving the room and then coming back, and then should leave again and come back and like, oh, we got to check on baby’s heart one more time and baby’s brain one more time. And I haven’t had an anatomy scan for two years. So here I’m thinking, wow, they’re like being really thorough now their host.

 

00;06;16;07 – 00;06;31;12

Abby Green

And then my last time. But after it’s been it was over an hour. Several doctors came in and they’re all masked. They’re wearing shields. They’re standing six feet apart. Like you can’t even tell who’s talking at this point because they’re all in this room and you have no idea what’s going on. And they started saying some really scary words.

 

00;06;31;17 – 00;06;49;17

Abby Green

So they brought up that our baby would have a cyst on the brain, heart complications, blood in their bowels and then possible chromosomal abnormalities. So like at this point, I didn’t even have high blood pressure. Like I have never had any type of health condition. So the fact that all of these were happening to my baby, was it was really scary.

 

00;06;49;17 – 00;07;10;08

Abby Green

And we were ushered around and ended up doing an amniocentesis a couple of weeks later or a couple days later, I guess at that point, and again, my husband wasn’t there. And after that amniocentesis, since it was probably a week later that we got the phone call that our baby will be born with Down’s syndrome. And we were just sitting with my husband and like, not knowing what to think, like not knowing what to do.

 

00;07;10;08 – 00;07;19;10

Abby Green

It meant uncertainty to us. Like having that diagnosis meant uncertainty to us. And it wasn’t that I had a bad experience with Down’s Syndrome, it was that I really had no experience with Down’s syndrome.

 

00;07;19;17 – 00;07;21;04

Speaker 3

So like, I know there’s a lot of learning.

 

00;07;21;04 – 00;07;31;04

Abby Green

I knew that right at that point. It was dark and scary, but it really wasn’t until Owen was born and I held him in my arms that I actually felt like the full release and really saw a lot of light.

 

00;07;31;06 – 00;07;47;29

Dr. Mona

So you said obviously that it was uncertainty. Where did you get most of your information, like after getting that diagnosis, obviously you get coordinated with the OB or did you go online, like where was your research that kind of said to you, okay, this is kind of going to help me feel better or just have awareness of what’s going to be happening.

 

00;07;47;29 – 00;08;05;27

Abby Green

Yeah, my husband and I were really different. So my husband went to Google right away and Google is a scary place when you type in those types of things, because it just pulls up all the stats. And I’m like, Colin, like, our baby is not a stat, like our baby is not a statistic. And during the process. So during like those two weeks when when we were in the waiting game, I had been connecting with a few people on Instagram.

 

00;08;05;27 – 00;08;21;26

Abby Green

Again, it’s the middle of the pandemic. Like, you can’t, you can’t see anybody, you can’t talk to anybody in person. All of the organizations were closed down. I mean, even going to the doctor like they wanted virtual visits instead of in-person visits. So I was really able to connect with a lot of people online and just who had been in the journey before.

 

00;08;21;27 – 00;08;36;27

Abby Green

They had three year olds, or they had six year olds. And that was a huge, huge help. There’s other places like Gigi’s Playhouse and the Down’s Syndrome networks of your states. Love that. Surpasses is a great one. So there’s a bunch of really good organizations that you can reach out to in those early weeks.

 

00;08;36;27 – 00;08;54;14

Dr. Mona

I can attest to the fact that when you get this diagnosis, like there’s a there’s a lot of thoughts happening in your head. I went straight to, articles online when we found out our son had a stroke. So, like how your husband went to Google? I went to all these articles online to look at outcomes. And it’s a very scary world when you look at that too.

 

00;08;54;14 – 00;09;13;02

Dr. Mona

Right. Talking about all the things that can potentially happen, there seems to be a lot more negativity than, hey, this is something really positive that can come out of this. You know, when you go online and even as a physician for my own son, I saw that I would see I would Google or I went on websites that have that we have access to for, medical journals.

 

00;09;13;02 – 00;09;39;19

Dr. Mona

And it was scary. And it’s, it’s so hard to see that because you obviously are living this reality and you want to hear the uplifting things like, that’s what I wanted to hear too. And I’m so glad that you’re able to find that works online. Other parents and caregivers online that were able to help you did anything that those people say make you guys feel better with the diagnosis or were you already had you already accepted it, and you obviously said that you were happy either, like you were going to do keep the baby either way, right?

 

00;09;39;22 – 00;09;55;23

Abby Green

Right, right. Yeah. So I wouldn’t have changed anything as far as keeping the baby or not. But even during those two weeks, there was a lot of like optimism, I guess. And like, optimism feels like the wrong word now, because now that we see Owen, we wouldn’t want him to be any other way because like the down syndrome diagnosis is part of him.

 

00;09;55;23 – 00;10;13;11

Abby Green

And we love so many parts. Like there’s almond eyes and his low tone makes them super squishy and like, he’s just so happy about life. But during those two weeks, I was definitely thinking that maybe our baby wouldn’t be born with Down’s syndrome. We had like a 1 in 30 chance, and then it was like a 1 in 10 chance from then, like a 1 in 3 chance.

 

00;10;13;11 – 00;10;35;03

Abby Green

So they kept on like going back and forth with with the statistics. But it also meant that it wouldn’t be something scarier. So Owen, they thought it could be either trisomy 21, which is what he has down syndrome, or it could have been trisomy 13 or trisomy 18. And those ones are a lot harder. Those ones, are a lot there’s a lot more issues that can happen with trisomy 13 and trisomy 18.

 

00;10;35;03 – 00;10;40;27

Abby Green

So we were we felt lucky, I guess, that we had that our baby was gonna be born with trisomy 21 instead.

 

00;10;40;29 – 00;11;05;05

Dr. Mona

Yeah. And it’s still. As a physician, I’m always fascinated and confused why there’s so much uncertainty in the testing. I’ve heard this a lot that they’re not sure. They’re like, it could be so many different things, and some things can be a lot more severe. My I’ve had situations like this with friends of mine who got genetic testing done that were told the exact same thing, and it it could be potentially a very big difference, you know, obviously in terms of life and quality.

 

00;11;05;05 – 00;11;19;11

Dr. Mona

So that’s that’s absolutely I hear that a lot. What would you say are some invisible struggles that you have dealt with? Maybe other moms or parents don’t realize with what’s, you know, with your child with Down’s syndrome and, you know, your family life.

 

00;11;19;15 – 00;11;37;24

Abby Green

This is one of the biggest reasons I’m so open about it on my Instagram account, because these are the things that I felt like they weren’t being shown. But these are the things that you would see this baby with Down’s syndrome, and you would see either like all the tests that were going on or like the really like the extremes, I guess you would see, but you wouldn’t see like the day in and day out.

 

00;11;37;24 – 00;11;57;19

Abby Green

And what I’m finding is that there are so many doctor appointments, like so many doctor appointments, and they started in pregnancy where we had twice a week, we would have non stress tests. We, we had ultrasounds very frequently. He had complications with his heart. So we were seeing a heart specialist every couple of weeks. He had complications with his liver.

 

00;11;57;19 – 00;12;13;24

Abby Green

So we were getting scans that way. Like there’s just so many tests that I felt like I was almost robbed of that experience in pregnancy. And it was interesting because in the pandemic, I went from having no doctor visits. So like they were different, like everything online to all of a sudden having 2 or 3 a week. And it was just it was overwhelming.

 

00;12;13;24 – 00;12;36;07

Abby Green

And now that he’s born, we have physical therapy, occupational therapy, we have speech therapy, we have extra homework that we’re doing. We’re still seeing a liver specialist. And luckily he did just graduate out of his heart care. We just feel so hopeful with that piece of it and just very thankful with that. Some other things. I definitely worry that I treat him differently and spend more time with him than I do with our other two kids.

 

00;12;36;09 – 00;12;54;18

Abby Green

So Lucy and Micah, we have a almost five year old and a three year old, and with anybody who has a newborn like, you know, you’re always holding them and you’re nursing them or feeding them bottles. You’re changing their diapers, you spend a lot of time with them. But when you have a baby with special needs, it’s all just amplified, because then you have the appointments and the the therapies and all the extra stuff.

 

00;12;54;18 – 00;13;10;18

Abby Green

So I do worry that as our kids get older and they start to notice that I worry that they will feel like I’m not giving them as much attention. And so I’m just being really conscious of that and making sure that when I’m with them, that I’m spending really quality time with the older two and then one thing that I didn’t know until we had.

 

00;13;11;02 – 00;13;11;25

Speaker 3

We were pregnant with.

 

00;13;12;02 – 00;13;28;01

Abby Green

With a baby who had have Down’s syndrome. Is that nursing? It’s like breastfeeding doesn’t always go really well. Babies with Down’s syndrome and humans with Down’s syndrome have low muscle tone, which means their muscles are just weaker. And that also means the muscles in their mouth. So I mentioned speech therapy. You might be like, wait, what? Like why is a baby having speech therapy?

 

00;13;28;02 – 00;13;38;22

Abby Green

Well, it’s really to work on their mouth muscles to make sure that his tongue in his mouth are getting stronger all the time. And so nursing has been a struggle. We found out on day nine. I’m an experienced breast feeder.

 

00;13;38;29 – 00;13;40;18

Speaker 3

So I did it with both my other kids a.

 

00;13;40;18 – 00;13;59;29

Abby Green

Past a year, and I just felt like something wasn’t right. So like, everyone was like, oh, he’s latching so well and he’s doing such a good job. But that mommy intuition like it’s so real. So when he was nine days old, I brought him into the doctor. I’m like, I don’t I don’t think he’s eating well. And we found out that he wasn’t transferring milk, so he was latching, but he wasn’t actually drinking the milk.

 

00;14;00;03 – 00;14;11;20

Abby Green

So my supply had tanked. He was losing weight. So we started on this exclusively pumping journey with for anybody who’s listening right now, if you’re an exclusive pumper, I want to give you like an air high five. So so this is.

 

00;14;11;20 – 00;14;14;08

Speaker 3

Because it is a labor of love. It is so much work.

 

00;14;14;17 – 00;14;35;10

Abby Green

And it’s really tough. Like, it’s it’s really hard. I want to be a advocate for it because I love that part of my life that I’m able to feed our son in that way. But it’s also really, really hard. You had an awesome interview with Emily Oster, who is one of my absolute favorite authors, and in that interview, when you had that episode, she really gave me permission to switch to formula if it’s harming me and my relationship with Owen more than it’s helping.

 

00;14;35;10 – 00;14;52;14

Abby Green

And so I love her take on it. So anybody I’m not sure what episode that was, but I remember just listening to it and being like, oh, this is in my back pocket. Like, if this just becomes too much work, I’m definitely like, switching to formula is not make or break like it is okay and our baby is going to grow up being incredible and amazing regardless of my switch over here.

 

00;14;52;16 – 00;15;12;06

Dr. Mona

Yeah, that was episode 49. For anyone listening and wanting to, listen to that. And it’s it’s you’re right. I mean, this is all tough stuff and it’s we’re all doing the best for our babies, but I think your the fact that you’re talking about the amount of doctor visits that happen in pregnancy and even obviously after Owen was born and the specialist appointments.

 

00;15;12;06 – 00;15;15;26

Dr. Mona

Right. The speech therapy and also physical therapy.

 

00;15;15;27 – 00;15;17;14

Abby Green

Yes. Lots of physical therapy, right?

 

00;15;17;20 – 00;15;36;26

Dr. Mona

Yeah. I mean, these are all appointments that, look, I want people to hear it because I think it’s important. It’s not that I think special needs parents are trying to say, like this woe is me thing, but it’s a reality of, hey, we spent so much of our child’s life doing all this extra things, and it’s because it’s for our child, but it’s it’s tiring.

 

00;15;37;03 – 00;15;52;22

Dr. Mona

I mean, it’s not easy having to go do all this stuff and especially in a pandemic. I mean, I’m sure there I don’t know if you had struggles with the therapies and if they have to switch to virtual, but that was very exhausting for so many of my families in my office and also as a pediatrician coordinating all of that.

 

00;15;52;22 – 00;16;10;27

Dr. Mona

You know, that was really, really tough for so many, so many people. So it was just really, really hard to see. And I don’t think people really understand that. Wait, you know, that fact that this is really hard stuff that we go through? It doesn’t mean that we don’t love our children any less. It doesn’t mean that we’re upset about it.

 

00;16;10;27 – 00;16;18;15

Dr. Mona

But it’s like, hey, this is kind of tough. And, you know, some days are going to be a lot more tougher than others. And it’s just the reality it is.

 

00;16;18;15 – 00;16;32;07

Abby Green

And for anybody who has any type of medically complex kiddo, or even if your your kid is sick or going to a well check, it’s like you park in the in the parking lot and then you have to answer all the questions on a kiosk and you answer all the questions again in front of somebody and they take your temperature.

 

00;16;32;07 – 00;16;46;06

Abby Green

You have to make sure that you’re wearing the right mask. You like, can’t touch anything like it just takes on. There’s so much more to it right now. And having to do that a couple times a week like it, is just a lot of added work. We had to switch to mostly virtual for a few of them, just for my sanity sake.

 

00;16;46;13 – 00;17;04;18

Abby Green

I was driving all over the Madison, Wisconsin area in order to get to the appointment, but then that has even more issues because I’m like, am I doing this right? Like, I don’t know if I am. Is this the position I’m supposed to be in? So that’s just added another element on top of it, of me being like, am I doing shortcuts right now that are going to make it harder for him to be as good as he could be in the future.

 

00;17;04;18 – 00;17;08;13

Abby Green

And I just have to, like, stop and be like, I’m doing my best and my best is good enough.

 

00;17;08;13 – 00;17;26;15

Dr. Mona

And I also love that you spoke about your other two children, Lucy and Micah. Because I don’t think a lot of people realize the impact that can have on the other siblings. So we talk a lot about older siblings or younger siblings of a child with special needs. Sometimes that child is kind of forced to grow up a little bit quicker.

 

00;17;26;15 – 00;17;44;06

Dr. Mona

I’ve seen that happen. Sometimes they call it parent ification, where the child who doesn’t have special needs is kind of forced to take on responsibility to help the parents. I’m so glad you all have resources that you won’t have to do that, but the child ends up growing up faster, feeling responsibility for their sibling that may have, special needs.

 

00;17;44;06 – 00;17;58;16

Dr. Mona

And that is a hard thing like that is we see a lot of that effect on siblings and the fact that you recognize that and you are very aware of that, you know, that you said you spend more time with Owen. Well, of course you’re gonna spend more time with him because he’s a baby, but also because of all the appointments.

 

00;17;58;16 – 00;18;13;18

Dr. Mona

That must be really hard to kind of look at. Am I spending enough time with Lucy? Am I spending enough time with Micah? How do you tell yourself, you know, I’m doing this? All right? Like, how do you balance that time and show them kind of that you, you know, your those two children are also getting that time with you.

 

00;18;13;18 – 00;18;14;17

Dr. Mona

It’s hard.

 

00;18;14;20 – 00;18;35;14

Abby Green

Yeah. And it is hard like it’s hard. I don’t think I have a perfect response for it. But I do know like what makes Lucy tick. So Lucy is almost five and I know what makes her tick like she likes to. It doesn’t have to be one on one time, as long as you are like, present and doing a lot of things that are fun and making sure that she feels loved and listening to her like, as long as you’re doing that and being very, very active with her, she feels very loved.

 

00;18;35;17 – 00;18;59;03

Abby Green

Where Micah are, he’s three years old. He likes what you like holding him and like direct eye contact. And even if you aren’t saying anything like as long as you’re just with him, it really helps. Like him feel loved. So we’ll just make sure that we are like, kind of like the love languages with children, almost like we are making sure to speak their love language, spending as much quality time, even if the quantity isn’t there, as much quality time as we can with each of them based on what they love.

 

00;18;59;10 – 00;19;10;21

Abby Green

But the parent ification like that is so interesting because Lucy helps with Owen’s morning bottle almost every morning. So while I pump the milk, it takes me 30 minutes and then I give her the bottle and she feeds him the milk and she will.

 

00;19;10;21 – 00;19;16;09

Speaker 3

Say, she’s like, this is a hard work. This is a really hard work. I’m like, you are so cute. Yeah.

 

00;19;16;10 – 00;19;31;23

Abby Green

So she has the best, like the best personality. And, I guess the best perspective. Lucy has the best perspective when it comes to down syndrome. And she will let people know, like, we’ll be at the grocery store as she comes to the grocery store with us, like once a month. And it’s her big socializing of the whole month.

 

00;19;31;23 – 00;19;41;17

Abby Green

And this should be like, hey, I have a little brother. His name is Owen. He has Down’s syndrome. He’s always going to have Down’s syndrome. You can’t catch it. It doesn’t mean he’s sick. It just means he’s special in different ways.

 

00;19;41;19 – 00;19;45;06

Speaker 3

And it’s just a really, really neat hearing her talk about it. I’m like, everyone needs to think.

 

00;19;45;06 – 00;19;47;27

Abby Green

About Down’s syndrome the way that our almost five year old does.

 

00;19;47;27 – 00;20;08;29

Dr. Mona

Yeah, I love that. And her age is at that perfect age that exactly right. Like that, that little independence, that nurturing quality that I love to see. Oh my gosh, four year old five year old. That’s awesome. And I love again watching your Instagram stories and your posts because I get to see that aspect of your life, you know, with your family and you have such a beautiful family and just the way you share the highs and the lows, right?

 

00;20;08;29 – 00;20;28;28

Dr. Mona

Because that is what motherhood is, is so important. Like you said at the beginning with your podcast, what would be a final message to other families, who have children with down syndrome or maybe families who recently just got that diagnosis and are, you know, overwhelmed with what to do and how to proceed. You know, with the future of that child.

 

00;20;29;01 – 00;20;49;04

Abby Green

First thing that I would say is all of your feelings are valid, like every single one of them, like the dark thoughts that you’re having, the excited thoughts, you being really nervous, the possible hope, like we have all felt them. And you’re not a bad parent for thinking those things. And I wish someone would have told me that in that first week.

 

00;20;49;04 – 00;21;04;29

Abby Green

So the first week I kind of just tuned out the world. I talked to my mom, I talked to Colin, I talked to my podcast partner Amy. I talked to a few of the women who I’d been following on the journey with Down’s syndrome, but that was it. Like I tuned out the rest of the world, and I wish that I would have heard more of that because there were some really dark thoughts.

 

00;21;04;29 – 00;21;20;17

Abby Green

Like there were some really, really scary thought that happened because I just didn’t know what was going on. But eventually it started getting a little bit brighter, and eventually I started learning more about it and I just want to let you know that your baby is not suffering. Like that was one thing that I’m like, oh my baby, my baby sick on the inside.

 

00;21;20;17 – 00;21;38;24

Abby Green

Like he doesn’t feel well right now. Like Owen, he is our most content child. Like he is pure happiness over the smallest things. And I’m finding that many mamas in the lucky few community. So that’s the that’s a little community. It’s called the Lucky Few. They continue to see the very same thing. Like as their children get older, they are just so happy.

 

00;21;38;24 – 00;21;55;20

Abby Green

They just they love life for what it is and not having to nitpick or complain or like go into all the details. They just love life for what it is and just knowing that we were given this gift and it’s not the plan that I would have had. And as I type a perfectionist planner like, I like to have a plan.

 

00;21;55;21 – 00;21;59;14

Speaker 3

And this having a baby with down syndrome in the middle of a pandemic.

 

00;21;59;14 – 00;22;14;17

Abby Green

Like definitely not part of the plan. But even on the days that I feel so inadequate, all own needs and all your child needs is you and you are both learning as you go, it makes me feel so good and knowing that that’s all I have to be is me and Owen’s mother. You know.

 

00;22;14;17 – 00;22;32;29

Dr. Mona

That’s so beautiful and it’s so true. It really is. I mean, I think we lose sight of all of that. And especially in this past year with the pandemic, we forget just how, in a way, how easy it is to be a mom if we can focus on that. But of course, life isn’t that easy, right? We have so many other things the what ifs, the well, what is why is it not this way?

 

00;22;33;03 – 00;22;49;23

Dr. Mona

Why did this happen? Like the questions we ask ourselves when, like you said, life doesn’t go the way we may have planned, you know, and obviously this past year for so many mamas, has been that and it’s such an important message and I, I can attest to that, too, that it’s sometimes really hard to act the way that I’m thinking in terms of what you’re saying.

 

00;22;49;23 – 00;23;08;07

Dr. Mona

Like, I know this is what matters, but then when everything else comes into our minds, well, this needs to get done and this happened and why this? It can really kind of rob you of that joy. But your baby loves you so much. You are meant to be. That baby’s mama is what I always feel. You know, when when Ryan had his diagnosis, I was so angry.

 

00;23;08;07 – 00;23;23;22

Dr. Mona

You know, like I had a healthy pregnancy. I was healthy, healthy. And then I felt like I was robbed of, like. Yes, you know, you said you were robbed of that healthy pregnancy. I felt I was robbed of a healthy delivery. Like, I felt like, well, what did I do to deserve this? You know, that was a mentality that kept coming into my head.

 

00;23;23;22 – 00;23;43;28

Dr. Mona

And I learned through the process that that’s not how I need to look at things. But it took a long time to get there. You know that this wasn’t something that was done to me or to my family. It was just life and throughout anyone’s life with their child. Right? Like whether you know your child is born with the condition or whether your child is develops a condition later on, anything can happen with our children.

 

00;23;43;28 – 00;24;01;10

Dr. Mona

Anything can happen with us, right? It doesn’t mean that you’re born with the healthy kid, that okay, nothing’s going to ever happen. Life is going to throw curveballs. And that’s just the hard reality. When you love so much as a mother or a father or a caregiver, we all just want the best for our children. And that is the consensus of any parent.

 

00;24;01;10 – 00;24;18;02

Dr. Mona

I believe. You know, we all just want the best and the best may look different to different people, but we all just want our children to be happy, to feel loved. And that is what I feel too. I mean, that is so hard sometimes to get back down to that the basics of what parenthood should be. But you so eloquently say it, you know, and it’s so nice talking to you about all this.

 

00;24;18;09 – 00;24;40;08

Abby Green

Well, and sometimes you want a reason for it, too. It’s like, why? Why did this happen? What did I do or what? What could I have done differently? And sometimes there’s not a reason why like this is just how it’s supposed to be and making sure that you grieve the experience. So like in your case, like grieving that birth experience that you had thought, in our case, grieving a third child, I thought we were going to have a grieving what could have been or what you had thought it would be.

 

00;24;40;11 – 00;24;56;09

Abby Green

But then knowing that it’s opening a door that you had no idea was even there, and that door we’re finding right now, at least like it, is more beautiful than any path that we could have created. And we are learning so much that we never would have learned if this wasn’t part of our life.

 

00;24;56;15 – 00;25;11;10

Dr. Mona

And it almost feels like then when you look at it right, and your six months of having. Oh, and now right, you just turn six months. At the time of this recording, it almost feels like you can’t imagine your life in the other situation. Like, this is our life. Like this is own. This is what this is what we’re what we’re doing.

 

00;25;11;10 – 00;25;27;16

Dr. Mona

This is our life. And I feel the same way. Like it. Almost like it was, like you said, meant to happen this way. Even though at the time it may feel like grief. And I can totally attest to that. Like the fact that I’ve had permission to grieve that delivery and grieve the diagnosis and go through that is what allowed me to move forward.

 

00;25;27;16 – 00;25;42;16

Dr. Mona

And I think a lot of people on my Instagram ask me all the time, well, how do you stay so positive when your child is going through a medical condition? And I say, like, it really is because I allowed myself, like you said, to feel the pain, to feel the pain, and to feel the anger and the sadness.

 

00;25;42;16 – 00;26;07;07

Dr. Mona

Whatever feeling you are feeling, you may not have anger, you may not have sadness, but you need to feel it and feel permission to feel that. Because if you don’t and just sweep it under the rug or bottle it down, you’re not going to be able to move forward from that feeling and see those brighter days, because there are brighter days and it’s really hard in, I know special needs families because of course, of all the appointments and the activities, but those days come, you know, I take care of a lot of special needs families.

 

00;26;07;07 – 00;26;23;17

Dr. Mona

And when I say special needs, I define that as, you know, needing a lot of doctor’s appointments, services or PT, all of that stuff, like basically a lot of different, appointments. And there is joy that can happen. And it may look different than another families, but it’s joy and it’s happiness and it’s, you know, it’s that reality.

 

00;26;23;17 – 00;26;25;20

Dr. Mona

And it’s it’s hard for people to kind of realize this.

 

00;26;25;20 – 00;26;39;09

Abby Green

I think it was it took a mental reframe in order to find the joy and happiness in those appointments. And I will be totally honest, some days I’m like, I do not want to be doing this. But when I’m like, you know, this is this is my time to be able to be with my son. This is my time that we can learn together.

 

00;26;39;09 – 00;26;54;26

Abby Green

This is my time that I can speak with professionals who know exactly how to help him become the strongest, most capable and most hardworking person that he can be. Like when I think of it that way, I’m like, what a gift. Like 30 minutes this hour. What a gift that I get to spend. Helping my son be the best person that he can be.

 

00;26;54;26 – 00;27;01;19

Abby Green

So I do find that when I have that mental reframe or anybody can have that mental reframe towards the positive side, it’s definitely helps.

 

00;27;01;21 – 00;27;16;14

Dr. Mona

Oh yeah. And it helps. And it will never take away the difficulty and the pain that obviously exists in our lives. Right? I think that’s the big key here is we understand obviously, that this is difficult, but I’m choosing to look at the positive side of it or the, you know, like you said, the reframing. And that’s a choice we make.

 

00;27;16;14 – 00;27;33;22

Dr. Mona

And that’s how we get control of a situation as a type A person. Right? Like as a type A person. Like I’m making the choice to look at the positive. It doesn’t deny the negative, it doesn’t deny all the pain, but it just says, hey, both exist in any situation, but I’m just choosing to focus on this so that I can be, you know, the happiest version of myself.

 

00;27;33;22 – 00;27;41;11

Dr. Mona

But that does not mean the pain and the heartache and the stress and, you know, going through that, and I, I think I read one of your posts, own own is in daycare.

 

00;27;41;18 – 00;27;43;03

Abby Green

He is in daycare, yes.

 

00;27;43;06 – 00;27;57;04

Dr. Mona

Yeah. I think I remember one of your posts when I started following you was when you had dropped him off to daycare, and I was like, you had tears in your eyes. And I was like, I felt that so much because, you know, at any moment. But I’m sure because you had so much time invested with him up until that point.

 

00;27;57;04 – 00;28;13;12

Dr. Mona

I mean, you literally spent so much time with appointments and all of this. And just because medical condition. Right. It’s like, oh my gosh, like, this is so heavy. Like, I mean, it’s it’s so heavy to say, okay, now someone else is going to take care of my child. I mean, that is that is hard stuff that we go through as moms.

 

00;28;13;15 – 00;28;27;18

Abby Green

Yeah. And for anybody like giving yourself permission that like it’s our third kid, the daycare drop off in my mind I’m like, it should get easier every time, right? Like, I’m used to this. It’s the same day care provider. We actually love our daycare. It’s this tiny little in-home daycare. She treats our kiddos like family.

 

00;28;27;18 – 00;28;32;28

Speaker 3

But it was it was so hard. And I’m like, why is this so hard? And it’s like, it’s you don’t have.

 

00;28;32;28 – 00;28;49;28

Abby Green

To just sit in it. Like sit in the valid feelings. Be like, this is hard and that is okay. Like it is okay. That is hard. And it took me a long time. I mean, it took me a few weeks until I was finally tier free for an entire day. And I just want to give people permission that if it’s hard for the sake of no other reason than it just is hard that that’s okay.

 

00;28;50;02 – 00;28;51;07

Abby Green

And it can just be hard.

 

00;28;51;10 – 00;28;52;06

Speaker 3

For no other reason.

 

00;28;52;06 – 00;29;10;03

Dr. Mona

Than that. Oh, Abby, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today. This is so great talking to you about all this. And again, I’m attaching her Instagram handle as well as a link to the Herself podcast. So you can take a listen to her and her friend Amy talk about everything. Like she mentioned motherhood, life.

 

00;29;10;03 – 00;29;13;16

Dr. Mona

It’s awesome. And is there anything you wanted to add before we end the call?

 

00;29;13;20 – 00;29;30;23

Abby Green

I mean, just thank you first of all, so much. And yeah, we bring up a lot of these conversations on the Herzog podcast. And as we had this conversation, Doctor Mona, I was thinking about like these little people years. We put so much pressure on ourselves. We put so much pressure on myself as parents to act in perfection, to have everything be right.

 

00;29;30;26 – 00;29;48;13

Abby Green

But these kids aren’t going to remember that the napkins match the balloons that match the wrapping paper at birthdays. They’re not going to remember, like all those little things that we spend hours detailing out, like what they’ll remember is seeing their mom being blissfully happy or being attentive, having a good time. And those are the things that are going to stick with them forever.

 

00;29;48;13 – 00;30;01;10

Abby Green

So it’s something that I definitely wish I would have told myself five years ago, something I’m still reminding myself of multiple times a week. But on those days, the title of Mama Like shines brighter than it ever has before. When you really sink into that.

 

00;30;01;27 – 00;30;16;26

Dr. Mona

You know, I knew that we were going to get along just because of your Instagram, like I really did. Like I saw your Instagram and I’m like this person. Like, she just seems like a nice person. You know, I, I we need so much more of people like you in this world. You know, this sort of like the sort of positivity.

 

00;30;16;26 – 00;30;24;01

Dr. Mona

I can feel it by speaking to you. And I cannot thank you enough for sharing your love with the world on my podcast. It means so much to me. Thank you.

 

00;30;24;05 – 00;30;31;13

Abby Green

Well, thank you again. And, it’s been an honor. Sharing our story. One little bit by little bit is definitely something that we feel very passionate about.

 

00;30;31;13 – 00;30;48;18

Dr. Mona

And thanks again, Abby. Thank you for tuning in for this week’s episode. As always, please leave a review. Share this episode with a friend. Share it on your social media. Make sure to follow me at PedsDocTalk on Instagram and subscribe to my YouTube channel, PedsDocTalk TV. We’ll talk to you soon.