Many of us as adults are familiar with diet culture. We are familiar with what it means to have an unhealthy relationship of food whether we were raised in it or we have met others who have. I welcome Kate Kiersey, a dietician and founder of Well Fed Family, to discuss how we can create boundaries with snacks and meals (think promoting variety and managing excessive snacking) while simultaneously creating a healthy relationship with food. We discuss:

• How to talk to our kids about food choices
• How to approach feeding if there is a medical concern about weight
• How to manage the child who always seems hungry
• Handling emotional/boredom eating

Find out more about WellFed Family on their website wellfed.family or on Instagram @wellfed.family

00;00;01;01 – 00;00;23;05

Kate Kiersey

But for kids from 2 to 12 years old, you have responsibilities that the parent has. It’s the things that the parent can control. And then separate from that, you have responsibilities of the child and what the child can control. And so the parents are responsible for what foods are fed when they are feeding their child, and where they are feeding their child.

 

00;00;23;07 – 00;00;30;10

Kate Kiersey

And then the child’s responsibility is whether they want to eat the food and how much they want to eat.

 

00;00;30;12 – 00;00;59;02

Dr. Mona

Hey everyone. Welcome back to the show. Thank you so much for your reviews. Everything that you put into this podcast to make sure that people know about this podcast means so much. I love getting to connect with parents from the PDT community on Mondays, give you some solo parenting mindset guidance once a month, and I get to chat with the most amazing guests like my guest today, who is Kate Kiersey, who’s the owner and dietitian for Well Fed Family Nutrition.

 

00;00;59;09 – 00;01;12;10

Dr. Mona

And we are talking about if it’s possible to create boundaries setting with snacks and meals while simultaneously creating a healthy relationship with food. Thank you so much for joining me today, Kate.

 

00;01;12;13 – 00;01;13;22

Kate Kiersey

Thanks for having me.

 

00;01;13;24 – 00;01;21;22

Dr. Mona

So tell me more about yourself and what brought you to fine. Well fed family nutrition and also this why this topic is important to you?

 

00;01;21;24 – 00;01;52;14

Kate Kiersey

Yeah. So after becoming a dietitian, I always really wanted to work with kids. I specifically didn’t want to work with kids with weight problems. So, you know, weight that’s too high or too low because I was already aware of how harmful diets and restriction and all of that can be on children. But when I got my first job in pediatrics, I was put in a position where I was helping kids that were experiencing really fast weight gain, and I had to learn how to help them and their families because they were experiencing real medical consequences from that.

 

00;01;52;14 – 00;02;16;22

Kate Kiersey

So things like pre-diabetes or even type two diabetes and high cholesterol, things like that. And so I had to learn how to help these family actually make nutrition changes and improve their eating, while also trying to help prevent those harmful aspects like dieting and a poor relationship with food and body image and all that. And I became really passionate about that.

 

00;02;16;22 – 00;02;38;23

Kate Kiersey

And also because of the parents, because I was seeing parents that were experiencing so much guilt and shame and concern about how their kids were eating, and a lot of times blaming themselves for things that were absolutely not their fault. And it’s so hard to feed kids these days. And when you’re adding on stress about health or weight problems, it just makes it that much harder.

 

00;02;39;05 – 00;02;55;23

Kate Kiersey

And I know there’s a lot of confusing information out there, so I kind of see it as my job to help parents know how to set boundaries, how to create a good relationship with food, but also make positive nutrition changes if that’s warranted for their families.

 

00;02;55;26 – 00;03;22;00

Dr. Mona

Oh, I love this and I love the conversation we’re going to be having. I love hearing how, you know, you came into your position and your role and your passion for what you do. And, you know, the topic that we’re talking about is exactly what you just said, that sometimes parents get a little concerned, just say they grew up in a culture of diet culture, for example, where, you know, they were restricted of foods, and then now they have a child and they want to create and maintain that healthy relationship with food, which I think is really important.

 

00;03;22;00 – 00;03;44;11

Dr. Mona

You know, like when we’ll talk about that, but also creating boundaries and we’ll talk about what those are as well, with snacks and meals and all of that and how those two can be done together. And I just think this is such an important and healthy conversation to have so that we can approach food, the conversations about weight, but really how we approach, you know, meal times and snack times and are we restricting quote unquote, what are we doing?

 

00;03;44;12 – 00;04;09;05

Dr. Mona

Are we allowing free range to snacks? Are we allowing free range to everything the child wants to eat? And how can we approach this in a sensitive way so that they really do have this favorable, great relationship with food? And I love this, and I just can’t wait to talk about this. And, you know, one of the biggest things, I guess I want to start out with is in your experience or your feeling, how would you describe what it means to have a healthy relationship with food?

 

00;04;09;05 – 00;04;20;17

Dr. Mona

Like what are your goals for a family? Right? Like in terms of just their overall way that the child is going to approach meals and snacks? If you could put it into like a little phrase or a paragraph.

 

00;04;20;20 – 00;04;50;20

Kate Kiersey

Yeah. So I would say for me what a healthy relationship with food means is that you are making good choices if you’re, you know, old enough to be making those choices for yourself. But mostly that you’re just not pre-auction supplied with food. So the biggest thing that I see is that people, especially adults that have grown up with kind of overly restrictive diets or even overly permissive diets, which we’ll talk about that too, but they grow up to be kind of obsessed with thinking about food all the time.

 

00;04;50;22 – 00;05;16;05

Kate Kiersey

And that might not even be related to how they’re eating. So they might be thinking about food all the time and eating really healthy, or thinking about food all the time. And bingeing it doesn’t really, you know, go in either direction per se. But that preoccupation with food is something that I really like to limit. And I think the goal is, like I said, to be able to make healthy choices with your eating but not be obsessed with it.

 

00;05;16;08 – 00;05;29;01

Dr. Mona

Oh, I love that. That’s a great way that you explained it. And so going right into it, how can we create appropriate rules and boundaries versus, you know, giving kids freedom and choices that balance that we’re trying to create in this discussion?

 

00;05;29;04 – 00;05;45;02

Kate Kiersey

Yeah. So I think that it is really tricky because like you said, a lot of parents nowadays are really aware of diet culture and they’re really trying to avoid having food rules and restriction and all of that. And it comes from a really good place, and I’m so glad people are aware of that kind of thing now and then.

 

00;05;45;05 – 00;06;06;16

Kate Kiersey

On the other end, though, some parents aren’t as familiar with that. And when they want their child to eat healthy, they really end up controlling things to a degree that can be harmful for the child. And I think that it is really tricky to find that balance. Luckily, we do have this really, really helpful framework called Division of Responsibility and Feeding.

 

00;06;06;19 – 00;06;26;29

Kate Kiersey

And that’s really where I like to start with thinking about this balance. So this really applies to for kids about two years old to 12 years old. Once you get over 12, it gets a little bit different. But for kids from 2 to 12 years old, you have responsibilities that the parent has. It’s the things that the parent can control.

 

00;06;27;02 – 00;06;50;09

Kate Kiersey

And then separate from that, you have responsibilities of the child and what the child can control. And so the parents are responsible for what foods are fed when they’re feeding their child, and where they are feeding their child. And then the child’s responsibility is whether they want to eat the food and how much they want to eat. So keeping those completely separate.

 

00;06;50;09 – 00;07;10;27

Kate Kiersey

So, for example, a parent would say, we’re going to have breakfast at 8 a.m. at the dinner table, and we are having eggs and toast and yogurt today. And then the child could say, you know what, I don’t want the yogurt, but I want five pieces of bread. And the parent would say, okay, that’s totally up to you.

 

00;07;10;29 – 00;07;26;12

Dr. Mona

I love that, and I mean, we’ll get into a little bit more of that as well. And that’s something that I think is really important in that age group. I’m curious, why is it useful 2 to 12 and afterwards not? I think I know, I know, but I just want to hear from you. Why, why you feel after 12 it becomes a little more tricky.

 

00;07;26;14 – 00;07;48;27

Kate Kiersey

Right? So before two, it’s different because children that are drinking, you know, infant formula or breast milk, it really should just be on demand feeding at that point. So not controlling when you feed the child, for 12 years old and older, I think that at that point children have developed so much autonomy, yet it becomes really hard to control those things.

 

00;07;48;27 – 00;08;00;12

Kate Kiersey

It’s still really important to have boundaries, and we can absolutely talk about that. But it looks different once you’re 12 years old, just because there’s only so much you can really control at that point.

 

00;08;00;15 – 00;08;32;29

Dr. Mona

But I feel like if you approach feedings the way we talk about food, snacks, all of that in a healthy way between 2 to 12, right? Like you can set a foundation where after 12, even though they have more autonomy, they understand, you know, that they are making choices and hopefully will, you know, they’ll make choices that make sense for their overall health, you know, cardiovascular health, whatever it is, not just, a number on a scale, which I’ve talked about many times before, but I feel like it is a principal thing that can really help the overall framework of how a child and family just talks about, you know, food and, you know,

 

00;08;33;01 – 00;08;34;13

Dr. Mona

approaches food in general.

 

00;08;34;15 – 00;08;52;19

Kate Kiersey

Oh, absolutely. You know, the goal is that exactly like you’re saying. So by 12 years old, around that age, they’re able all the rules are in place, and all of the knowledge is in place that they’re able to make good choices when they’re outside of the home. It becomes a lot harder if those things are not set up by 12.

 

00;08;52;19 – 00;09;01;19

Kate Kiersey

And it’s so much easier, like you were saying, from 2 to 12 years old, if you have everything set up properly, it just makes it that much easier as they get older.

 

00;09;01;20 – 00;09;22;01

Dr. Mona

I love this. And so my next question would be, what does a quote unquote healthy home environment look like? Should kids get access to sweets and processed snack foods? Even if we’re worried about weight, or even if we’re not worried about weight? You know there are. I know even from my childhood, I think every person can say that they love cookies and chips and things and bags.

 

00;09;22;01 – 00;09;39;17

Dr. Mona

Right? But we also have to respect the fact that those foods, and I like to talk it from a health aspect. We can’t eat those foods every single meal, every single snack. So how do we how do we not put that on like a negative thing that oh my gosh, I can’t believe you’re eating sweets or processed snack foods and let it be that it’s part of our life.

 

00;09;39;23 – 00;09;41;20

Dr. Mona

And how do we do that in the home?

 

00;09;41;23 – 00;10;01;13

Kate Kiersey

Yeah. So first of all, I would like to go back to the idea of division of responsibility. So the parent should be the one that’s in control of saying when and what snacks are happening. So they’re the ones saying, you know, today we’re going to have cookies for a snack, or today we’re going to have Greek yogurt and apples as a snack.

 

00;10;01;15 – 00;10;26;16

Kate Kiersey

So the child is not just getting free range to graze throughout the kitchen all day. The parent really should be the one kind of setting that up. And on that note, you know, finding the balance between having those healthier foods and the foods that are maybe not as desirable of options, you know, a lot of people refer to them as junk food, but that’s one of the things that I don’t like to do.

 

00;10;26;18 – 00;10;49;18

Kate Kiersey

So, but yeah, finally finding a balance there can be really tricky. I think that it totally depends on the families, and, you know, the child’s reaction. But absolutely. I agree with you. Certain foods are just easier to like, and certain kids, even if they have no restrictions whatsoever. They’ve grown up and never had any restrictions around food.

 

00;10;49;20 – 00;11;13;02

Kate Kiersey

Sometimes they’re just always going to choose some of those easier to like foods. So, like a true story. I saw a kid one time that only ate ramen noodles. Breakfast, lunch and dinner. Ramen noodles every meal. And so the parents were like, you know, we want to let him have ramen noodles sometimes, but this isn’t healthy. And he will always choose them.

 

00;11;13;02 – 00;11;33;10

Kate Kiersey

And I said, you know, if I didn’t have my nutrition knowledge and didn’t know what I know, I might eat ramen noodles for every meal. Oh, yeah. Certainly. Yeah. So sometimes we do have to. Well, not sometimes. We always do have to step in and say, you know, we’re not having ramen noodles for lunch. We’re going to have, you know, something else.

 

00;11;33;20 – 00;11;54;09

Kate Kiersey

Because it’s just we can’t eat ramen noodles every day. And the way to talk about that with your child totally depends on their age and level of development. So, for instance, my son is three years old, and if he had his way, he would eat berries for every single meal and every single snack. He would never eat anything else.

 

00;11;54;12 – 00;12;15;22

Kate Kiersey

And so I have to limit berries in our house. That’s one of the things that I just can’t have sitting around, or he’ll just go ahead and grab them himself. I think it’s easier to think about it with berries because there’s less of that whole diet culture issue going on. You know, it’s not you don’t feel guilty restricting berries, but you might feel guilty restricting cookies that.

 

00;12;15;24 – 00;12;33;02

Dr. Mona

Yeah, yeah, totally. I respect that conversation because that is something. But we kind of have to look at balance in all things, right? Like, you know, you know, you don’t want them eating like I’m going to give an example, my son is obsessed with peas, which is glorious. I think it’s wonderful that he loves peas, but he is so obsessed.

 

00;12;33;03 – 00;12;58;16

Dr. Mona

Sometimes he cries and we don’t. We’re out of peas. Like I don’t have any more. His or he has it already. And I’m saying this because we’re talking about all foods. But yes, cookies and chips get put on this negative platform of like, hey, this is really, really bad. And, you know, we’ve talked so much about this and I think in most a lot of your account and many other dietitians I follow of how we don’t want to like, shame them for praising, craving foods that we even as adults love.

 

00;12;58;16 – 00;13;06;04

Dr. Mona

Like come on, like I, I think all of us can say that we’ve love cookies and love berries, but we need to have things kind of in a balance in our home.

 

00;13;06;04 – 00;13;22;25

Kate Kiersey

So yeah. And so for a really young child like, you know, for years later, my son around three years old, I would say you can keep it so simple. They’re not going to ask you a ton of follow up questions. You can say, ooh, yeah, chocolate does sound really good right now. We’re not going to have chocolate right now.

 

00;13;22;25 – 00;13;42;29

Kate Kiersey

We’re going to have this other snack. And you really don’t even have to explain. When a child starts getting a little bit older, I would try to treat it to do your best to separate the food from diet culture and all of that. So like whether it’s Doritos, whether it’s peas, whether it’s berries, saying, you know, we can’t have Doritos for every meal.

 

00;13;42;29 – 00;14;11;04

Kate Kiersey

We have to eat all kinds of foods and keep it simple there. You know, as your child’s getting older, trying to keep the conversation neutral while also enforcing to them that you do need all kinds of foods. And you can’t just eat one kind of food all the time. Now, if you’re not seeing that, it’s one specific kind of food, but it’s like a whole category, you know, like ice cream and chips and just generally like highly processed snack foods.

 

00;14;11;07 – 00;14;30;05

Kate Kiersey

I see that a lot just because those foods are so easy to like. Yes. They’re so easy to eat. So in that case, as a child is getting older, you can tell them things like, you know, this, Doritos don’t have as many nutrients as Greek yogurt and granola. So we’re going to have Greek yogurt and granola for snack today.

 

00;14;30;08 – 00;14;41;06

Dr. Mona

Oh, I love that. And like you said, it’s all age dependent, right? Like an older child. Like over 4 or 5 can understand that concept a little more, of y versus a two year old who’s like, what? I just wanted.

 

00;14;41;08 – 00;14;59;08

Kate Kiersey

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And, you know, when you’re, you’re enforcing division of responsibility and all this kind of stuff and you’re going from letting them pick meals and snacks to you being the one that picks, you can absolutely expect that there’s going to be resistance. And even if you’ve been doing it all along, there’s going to be resistance.

 

00;14;59;08 – 00;15;17;23

Kate Kiersey

So my three year old will still say, I want berries. And even if we don’t have berries in the house, even if I say, I wish I could give you berries, we don’t have them sometimes. You still going to throw a fit? And that’s okay. Children are just learning, so they’re learning where the boundary is. And if you’re actually going to hold it up.

 

00;15;17;25 – 00;15;23;01

Kate Kiersey

And the more you are consistent, the less resistance you’ll see.

 

00;15;23;04 – 00;15;38;20

Dr. Mona

Love that. And like I know this is not the topic of the conversation here, but what you just said. It’s so important that in that situation where it’s not on the menu, right, whether it’s you made a choice as a parent that it’s not on the menu or you don’t physically have it when you don’t physically have it, it’s easier to say no because you can’t go get it right.

 

00;15;38;20 – 00;15;55;21

Dr. Mona

Like just say it’s you’re not able to, but it’s also important. Like if it’s not on the menu, like if it’s not on the menu, and you made that choice as a parent that it’s not on the menu and they start throwing a tantrum like I’m using. You know, I have a three year old also. And then you go and get them that they are going to realize that, oh, this was easy.

 

00;15;55;21 – 00;16;12;20

Dr. Mona

I just cried pride. Pride kept saying I wanted it and I got it versus like the way you’re talking about in such a sensitive way, which is I see that you really want berries right now, but berries are not on the menu right now. Right now we’re having Greek yogurt and maybe we can have berries later. I know you really love berries.

 

00;16;12;20 – 00;16;28;10

Dr. Mona

Mommy loves berries too. Like it’s not. You’re not getting mad at them. You’re not saying anything. And you have to kind of like you said, you have to be okay with them not loving that boundary. But it’s so important to hold that healthy boundary. And I think parents often have a hard time because when they feel bad, they’re like, well, they really want this.

 

00;16;28;10 – 00;16;49;28

Dr. Mona

And I can tell you from like grandparents, right? Like my in-laws and my parents, man. Like they know that Ryan loves like your son berries. They know he loves sweets. And so when he cries for them, like every hour they feel bad. They’re like, oh, he must be so hungry. I’m like, he just ate a whole breakfast. He knows that if he comes to you and does a puppy dog face, that you’re going to give it to him.

 

00;16;49;28 – 00;17;07;21

Dr. Mona

And so I had my mother in law one time. I’m like, mom, trust me, just say no. Very calmly. Give him a hug and he’ll stop asking. And like clockwork, he stopped asking because he knew that there wasn’t going to be, grandma, who’s going to like, okay, sweetie, and sneak him these snacks, you know? And, you know, it’s it is.

 

00;17;07;21 – 00;17;27;18

Dr. Mona

It is a concept of just also just respecting the timing, respecting also just the boundaries. And so, yeah, I see this all the time. And boundary setting can seem so hard. But like you said perfectly, when you do it enough you’re going to start to see less resistance, and then you’re not going to have as many of these quote unquote battles during snacks and meal times.

 

00;17;27;25 – 00;17;36;02

Dr. Mona

I want this, I don’t want this. Of course, they’re still going to happen to some degree, but, it’s going to feel much less. And I can attest to that from my experience as well, for sure.

 

00;17;36;04 – 00;17;53;23

Kate Kiersey

Yeah, absolutely. And I think kind of what you’re along the lines of what you’re saying, we want to say on their team. So you expect a lot more resistance like so my son, he loves chocolate too. That’s one of the other things he loves. And we have chocolate all the time. But sometimes we’re not going to have it at every meal like we talked about.

 

00;17;54;11 – 00;18;11;11

Kate Kiersey

And it’s gotten to the point now where he’ll say, you know, I want chocolate, and I’ll stay on his team by saying, oh, yeah, chocolate. I love chocolate, too. We’re not having chocolate right now, though. And, you know, I used to see the whole tantrum thing after that. But at this point he goes, okay.

 

00;18;11;14 – 00;18;11;27

Dr. Mona

Yeah.

 

00;18;12;00 – 00;18;26;18

Kate Kiersey

Yeah. And he’s only three, but he already has that skill because he kind of expects me to say that at this point. And the way that you can make sure that they’re not too restrictive, though, is that sometimes I’ll just surprise him, but he’ll just have chocolate on his plate with dinner.

 

00;18;26;28 – 00;18;46;28

Dr. Mona

Love it. I’m sure he’s like, what is going on? This is amazing. But but it becomes because you just add that in as a parent, it doesn’t become like a again, like a restricted forbidden fruit type situation or like, oh, I never get this chocolate. And it’s this, I put this on a pedestal, right? I agree, I, you know, my husband and I don’t meet eye to eye on how we approach feeding.

 

00;18;46;28 – 00;19;03;21

Dr. Mona

I’m very much like you that I don’t think we should restrict so many things. Like I will randomly bring a cupcake home or make a tray of muffins or cupcakes when my husband’s like, we shouldn’t be giving him so much sugar. And I’m like, sweetie, when he sees it. When he never gets it, he’s going to go buckwild.

 

00;19;03;21 – 00;19;21;29

Dr. Mona

Eating like seven cupcakes. So I really want to normalize it. Sometimes we have cupcakes because, gosh, they’re so good. Like a Funfetti cupcake. I mean, come on, there’s delicious. But, like you said, just kind of surprising them with, like, a chocolate on their dinner plate. Or sometimes I’ll put he loves muffins, so I’ll put a muffin with his breakfast with his eggs.

 

00;19;21;29 – 00;19;35;29

Dr. Mona

And he, he doesn’t even at this point, because it’s so normalized. I don’t know about your son. It’s not even like a big production. It’s literally like, oh, cool, there’s a muffin and I’ll eat it. There’s no like, oh my God, muffin most. And it’s like, okay, there’s a muffin and I’m going to eat it. And that’s cool.

 

00;19;35;29 – 00;19;42;06

Dr. Mona

And then I won’t be pining for it as much, you know, because I get it when it’s part of the rotation, which is awesome.

 

00;19;42;08 – 00;19;59;02

Kate Kiersey

Yeah, exactly. And like, even, you know, the other day I put some chocolate on his dinner plate and I didn’t get any for my husband or myself because we were like pretty much out. Like it was just one little square of dark chocolate. And I think when I first started giving him chocolate, you know, when he was around two, he probably would have gobbled the whole thing up right away.

 

00;19;59;02 – 00;20;19;18

Kate Kiersey

Oh my gosh. But instead he split it into thirds and tried to hand us, and said, oh, you need chocolate too. And I was like, oh, I’m so glad the, you know, you don’t feel like this is such a restricted item that I need to, like, call it right up. But you can even share it with other people because, you know, you’re going to get it again probably tomorrow or the next day.

 

00;20;20;18 – 00;20;21;10

Kate Kiersey

Yeah.

 

00;20;21;12 – 00;20;35;28

Dr. Mona

Oh, I love that, because that’s exactly what I saw to. Right, using the cupcake example. Like I didn’t really introduce a lot of cupcakes before, like I would say one and a half to like, you know, a lot of that. But after two years of age, it was very normal for us to have, you know, added sugar here and there.

 

00;20;35;28 – 00;20;51;23

Dr. Mona

You know, I don’t really count numbers like in terms of like, I just kind of have a balanced, structure. But you’re right. Like, it’s so sweet that yes, if you created as this pedestal and restricted so much, then they feel scared when they do have it, they don’t want to share. And that, oh gosh, that’s such a sweet story of him sharing with you the final.

 

00;20;51;26 – 00;21;08;24

Dr. Mona

The final piece. That’s such an endearing thing. So I guess my next, you know, kind of pivot of this conversation is now, if a family is concerned about, let’s do it because the answer might be similar. So if a family’s concerned about their child’s weight, let’s say the weight being on the higher end of a spectrum.

 

00;21;08;24 – 00;21;43;06

Dr. Mona

So, you know, pediatrician or dietitian is concerned that maybe their percentiles are going like really high, you know, in terms of, from the last visit. And there needs to be a conversation about the feeding when we’re concerned about weight or to same degree, maybe a family is concerned that the child is leaning in more on to processed foods or snacks like that, like we’re talking about how can we approach this sort of feeding our kids if we’re concerned about weight, if we’re concerned about them going too far on one spectrum of eating, what would be the best way to start there?

 

00;21;43;08 – 00;22;09;14

Kate Kiersey

Yeah. So on the higher end, I would say, well, ideally, I like to have these conversations without the child present. And I know that that’s really tricky as a pediatrician for you, I don’t even know how you would accomplish that. But that is something that I’m able to accomplish. And what we usually talk about, I just ask them what they think is going on, because pretty much all of the time, the family, like they suspect that things aren’t going optimally.

 

00;22;09;28 – 00;22;47;12

Kate Kiersey

A lot of times there’s like stress going on in the house or there’s something going on that’s, caused this change to happen, relying more on, like, convenience foods and stuff like that. And really, the advice does not change based on weight. So I just reinforce that division of responsibility. You know, we’re trying to make sure that you are the one in control of deciding what is served and when it is served, and upholding that and then possibly also talking about how do we make some of the choices, ones that will support your child’s appetite in a way that they will be satisfied and they won’t feel the need to go back

 

00;22;47;12 – 00;22;50;24

Kate Kiersey

and get snacks and snacks and snacks all day long.

 

00;22;50;27 – 00;22;58;06

Dr. Mona

Love that and kind of going on that. What do we do if your kid does seem to always be hungry or always snacking?

 

00;22;58;09 – 00;23;19;19

Kate Kiersey

Yeah. So if they genuinely do seem hungry, I think the first thing that I look at is what is being served in meals and snacks, because you need to make sure that they’re well balanced. You know, ideally you want snacks to look like miniature meals, so you want to have that source of protein, you want to have some carbs, some fat, and then also some fiber.

 

00;23;19;19 – 00;23;38;25

Kate Kiersey

So you want all of those things to kind of be filling up their belly and keeping it full so that they’re not immediately hungry afterwards. So for any child, if they just have like a banana for a snack, it’s very reasonable that they will be hungry 30 minutes to an hour later, or maybe not even ever full in the first place.

 

00;23;39;08 – 00;23;55;07

Kate Kiersey

So, you know, adding something to go along with that, whether that’s like some Greek yogurt that’s like full fat Greek yogurt or even some peanut butter to add in some of that fat, too. Just making sure that those meals and snacks are well balanced.

 

00;23;55;10 – 00;24;02;04

Dr. Mona

Love that. So adding a fat or protein source with snacks would be kind of where you’d go, like you’re giving that example of a banana.

 

00;24;02;07 – 00;24;20;21

Kate Kiersey

So specifically for a child, if you’re concerned that their weight is too high, I always want to make sure there’s a protein and in the source of fiber. And then, you know, making sure there’s some amount of carbohydrates and fat there as well, but not like favoring those necessarily, if that makes sense.

 

00;24;20;21 – 00;24;29;11

Dr. Mona

Yeah. And besides peanut butter, what are some other your go to favorites for I guess, or even just for snack time like proteins.

 

00;24;29;25 – 00;24;30;23

Kate Kiersey

To use.

 

00;24;30;23 – 00;24;31;07

Dr. Mona

Yeah.

 

00;24;31;09 – 00;25;05;09

Kate Kiersey

Dairy and general. So whether it’s like cheese sticks or cottage cheese or yogurt, or even milk, all of those are really good options for protein, eggs. If your child is a meat eater or a bean eater, those kinds of things are also good. And then for fiber, fruits, vegetables, and whole grains are my main choices. So whether that’s like whole grain crackers or a piece of whole wheat toast, just something that gives them some of that fiber as well.

 

00;25;05;13 – 00;25;19;20

Dr. Mona

I love that this is so great. And like you said, it kind of goes back to that division of responsibility. Like, hey, this is snack time. So what do you do now that you’ve set up the idea of what you’re serving? Right. Just to make sure that you’re not just serving things that are causing them to be hungry.

 

00;25;19;24 – 00;25;30;06

Dr. Mona

Anything else that would be kind of the next step of approaching that child who you did this maybe you changed the types of food, but they’re still maybe always wanting, you know, to snack.

 

00;25;30;09 – 00;25;53;01

Kate Kiersey

Yeah, I think that in that case, consistency is usually the next step. So, usually with families, I don’t see people limiting the amount of snacks that you can have in a day. So, I usually do see a lot of grazing. So that’s something that I really try to reinforce, like between breakfast and lunch, you really only need one snack time.

 

00;25;53;04 – 00;26;18;08

Kate Kiersey

Having it be a sit down snack where there’s no screens, where you’re really able to focus on the food itself, on tasting it, feeling what’s going into your body, and also making sure that that child’s portion sizes are not limited at all. So, you know, if you just give them like one banana with some peanut butter and they finish the banana, that they might still be hungry, they might need something else to go with that.

 

00;26;18;10 – 00;26;44;02

Kate Kiersey

So just making sure that they really have the opportunity to fill up their belly with all kinds of different, you know, all of the different nutrients that we just talked about. And then after that, it’s really going to be about their body getting used to it. So a lot of times I see kids that are not used to going more than like 30 minutes without eating and your appetite hormones are something that it can be tricky to change.

 

00;26;44;07 – 00;27;03;05

Kate Kiersey

So if your body’s really used to eating every 30 minutes, you’re going to have an adjustment period where, yeah, you are hungry and that can be a little bit, you know, uncomfortable. So just giving your body time to adjust and allowing it to develop the ability to go a little bit longer without eating is key.

 

00;27;03;07 – 00;27;20;26

Dr. Mona

So have you had to work with families that like, just say that you talk to them about the types of foods like we just mentioned? Have you had to have it where they, you know, just say their child eat a snack at ten and then at 1045 they want another snack. But the family did serve something, like you said, that’s balanced with like, you know, protein.

 

00;27;21;10 – 00;27;38;23

Dr. Mona

Like you said, have you had to tell them, like, hey, we have to push them off a little bit? Or like a lot of things I hear from parents are like, well, they’re hungry. I feel so bad not feeding them when they’re hungry. But also we’re trying to create this routine, right? We’re trying to create like some sort of a routine where we’re not snacking.

 

00;27;38;23 – 00;27;42;18

Dr. Mona

So what is that balance there? I guess if we could try to find that.

 

00;27;42;20 – 00;28;00;13

Kate Kiersey

I don’t usually see that being too much of an issue. So if if you’re doing other things. So if you’re providing a well-balanced snack and you’re also, you know, having it be a sit down snack. Yeah. You’re not like they’re not riding in a stroller while they’re eating a snack. They’re not in the car. They’re not in front of the TV.

 

00;28;00;24 – 00;28;07;26

Kate Kiersey

They’re really able to, like, actually focus on what they’re eating. And it’s also well balanced. I don’t really see that as a, as an issue.

 

00;28;07;29 – 00;28;21;26

Dr. Mona

Also, and going back to the what you just said about the like, mindfully eating like being at a table and eating, does that just help because of like they’re focused on the meal, they’re focused on hunger cues more versus like being on the go or being distracted by television or something like that.

 

00;28;21;28 – 00;28;47;18

Kate Kiersey

Absolutely. So especially, you know, on both ends of the spectrum on kids who struggle with their appetite being too low or too high. I find that being away from screens, being able to really concentrate on what you’re eating for a child that is a smaller eater, they might just be eating until they’re not starving anymore and then kind of move on back to like, you know, back to their video game or whatever.

 

00;28;47;21 – 00;29;05;12

Kate Kiersey

And then for a child that tends to have a larger appetite, they might end up just continuing to eat past the point where they’re full if they’re distracted. So not having distractions can really help kids pay much better attention to their appetite. Eat until they’re full, but not go past that fullness.

 

00;29;05;14 – 00;29;20;11

Dr. Mona

Great. Yeah, I like to clarify that because I agree. That’s awesome. And then the last. This is such a great conversation. I love talking about this stuff because it just really feels, you know, obviously we’re talking about it seems like okay, yeah, we do that. But I think for a lot of parents listening sometimes are like, wow. Yeah.

 

00;29;20;11 – 00;29;38;28

Dr. Mona

Like I’m not doing that and maybe I should do more of this. And I see that at the foods that I’m serving at. Snack times tend to not be mini meals. Like you said, they tend to not be as balanced. Right. Like and it’s not it’s not a fault of anybody. But sometimes, you know, snacks tend to go towards, like we said, packaged foods, easy snacks, like things on the go.

 

00;29;39;04 – 00;30;02;24

Dr. Mona

And there’s those tend to not be as balanced as what you’re saying. And sometimes even just pairing those things like sometimes we’ll do like like you said, like sometimes it’s a mix, we’ll do yogurt, but we’ll also serve crackers, right? Like from a packaged crackers that he really loves. Like these cheese crackers. So there’s a balance there of, you know, something he really likes, but also something I really need him, you know, to be exposed to, which is things like yogurts or, other things like that, cheeses and things like that.

 

00;30;02;24 – 00;30;09;07

Dr. Mona

But it’s so important to kind of go back to what are we serving? And I think sometimes we forget that balance is really key.

 

00;30;09;28 – 00;30;33;04

Kate Kiersey

Yeah, absolutely. And I mean like you said it’s not convenient a lot of times these balanced snacks, it’s it’s really a pain. And I think that parents take on a lot of this blame and this stress. And we’re talking about these strategies. In an ideal world we wouldn’t even have to talk about these strategies because our country would be set up in a way that supports healthy eating.

 

00;30;33;07 – 00;30;55;23

Kate Kiersey

But, you know, with diet culture and with all of the super highly palatable foods that are out there, it makes it really tricky. And with how busy parents are. But absolutely, you know, I think there are some options that make it a little bit easier. So like on the yogurt note, there are some like, you know, those powdered yogurts that are a whole milk pouch yogurts.

 

00;30;55;25 – 00;31;13;03

Kate Kiersey

I actually really like those. I put them in the freezer and then I take them with us, wherever we’re going, because I can stay good for a long time. Same with, like, cheese sticks they can hold for a long time. Not everything needs to be like fresh, unprocessed foods to necessarily have that good balance to it.

 

00;31;13;03 – 00;31;26;07

Kate Kiersey

So, I think that finding foods that work for your family is the most important thing. And not feeling guilty for relying on convenience foods, because I know I do that. Yeah, yeah.

 

00;31;26;09 – 00;31;41;28

Dr. Mona

I guess why there’s so much I that I would love to talk to you about, but I wanted to really tackle another concept that, I think a lot of parents can relate to, which is emotional eating. And so in children, you know, what are some things that contribute to emotional eating? I know as adults on many adults have emotional eating.

 

00;31;42;04 – 00;31;52;24

Dr. Mona

And also after you talk about that, just some ways that we can, you know, approach this, in a again, sensitive way of understanding what’s happening and kind of how we approach snacks and meals this way.

 

00;31;52;27 – 00;32;21;17

Kate Kiersey

Yeah, absolutely. So the biggest factor for emotional eating for children is their emotional coping skills. So if a child has a lot of emotional coping tools in their you know, toolbox, so to speak, emotional eating is not going to be as much of a problem. So for instance if a child is sad and they know how to deal with that emotion without relying on food, a lot of times they’re not going to become as much of an emotional eater.

 

00;32;22;03 – 00;32;25;26

Kate Kiersey

I think actually one of the trickiest emotions that I see is boredom.

 

00;32;25;26 – 00;32;31;13

Dr. Mona

Yeah. So I was wanting to ask about boredom. I was like, do you include boredom in this definition? Because I see it all the time, too.

 

00;32;31;16 – 00;32;31;28

Kate Kiersey

Yeah.

 

00;32;32;06 – 00;32;48;05

Dr. Mona

Especially especially in summer because of, like, the summer, like when I get we see a lot of this in pediatric practice that, I’m being honest, like in the summer because of how hot it is in Florida and also that children are home more and bored. They tend to they tend to eat more and be active less.

 

00;32;48;05 – 00;33;05;20

Dr. Mona

And so it’s like the inverse of what we kind of want in terms of balance. And so we see a lot of children put on a lot of, proportional weight, over the summer. When I say, proportional, meaning children are going to gain weight, but we’re talking like jumping very high, percentile curves. And so, yeah, I would love to address the boredom aspect too.

 

00;33;05;23 – 00;33;33;24

Kate Kiersey

Oh, I’ve absolutely seen the same pattern. Yeah, it’s a thing. So for eating, I think, you know, once again, going back to Division of responsibility, picking up a snack is you can make that not allowed to be a solution for boredom. So if you have a consistent snack schedule and you’re saying, you know, like snack time is at the dinner table at this time, you’re not going to allow grazing in between.

 

00;33;33;26 – 00;33;52;13

Kate Kiersey

So that’s usually what happens as a child just gets bored and they get up and go to the refrigerator and grab something to eat just to keep them entertained. But if that’s not an option, you know, they’ll be able to turn to some of those other, you know, or develop other skills for coping with that boredom. Like, you know, boredom is a very uncomfortable emotion.

 

00;33;52;14 – 00;34;00;05

Kate Kiersey

So of course, learning to deal with being okay with being bored is a really valuable skill to have.

 

00;34;00;08 – 00;34;16;18

Dr. Mona

Oh, I love it. And it’s something that I, you know, we’re talking about this being important, not even just for the 2 to 12 but above 12 year olds too, right? Like I, I remember boredom eating like when I was in high school. And I think all of us can agree that even as adults, we boredom eat. And really, like you said, learning the coping skills without it.

 

00;34;16;18 – 00;34;33;15

Dr. Mona

And that’s why I love addressing being okay with boredom, frustration tolerance. I love talking about these things for the younger toddler as well, right? Like the 2 to 5 year olds. It doesn’t mean that you do this, teach them about being okay with boredom and that they’re always going to, not boredom, but it can help for sure, right?

 

00;34;33;15 – 00;34;48;21

Dr. Mona

Like you said, channeling the emotions and boredom to something else. I love that. And so this is just such a great conversation. Is there any other final message you’d want to add along those lines around anything that we discussed? For our listeners today?

 

00;34;48;23 – 00;35;10;10

Kate Kiersey

Yeah, I think for emotional eating, you know, there are some other things that I think more people know about, like not using food as a reward, for example. That’s one of the things that we really don’t recommend. Also not using taking away food as a punishment. So sometimes parents will say, you know, you’re not going to get dinner or you’re not, you’re not going to get dinner.

 

00;35;10;13 – 00;35;30;09

Kate Kiersey

You’re not going to get dessert tonight if you keep talking back to me, and then you’ll take away dessert. And now the child has learned that dessert is something that they only get when they’re good. Yeah. And we don’t want to create that kind of relationship with food where, you know, a child is feeling like the way that they act determines what they get to eat.

 

00;35;30;09 – 00;35;54;14

Kate Kiersey

It should be completely separate. And so I think that using food as a reward is one of the more obvious things, but taking away food as a punishment can be even more damaging. I would also say that if your child is already an emotional eater, shaming them for doing that is going to be one of the most reinforcing things that you can do.

 

00;35;54;14 – 00;36;18;04

Kate Kiersey

So, for instance, if you find that your child is, you know, sneaking food or something like that and you shame them for it, that is going to make them more of an emotional eater. Because being shamed is an extremely it causes so many negative emotions. And if you’re absolutely right and emotional, either they’re going to turn more to food.

 

00;36;18;07 – 00;36;36;21

Kate Kiersey

And we really like I said, we always want to be on our kids team. So if a parent does find that their kids an emotional eater, approaching it with like curiosity and kindness and compassion is going to go a lot further than, you know, punishing their child or reprimanding them for it.

 

00;36;37;03 – 00;36;58;29

Dr. Mona

And you’re bringing up such great points about the shame, because shame in raising children can show up in so many ways that sometimes parents don’t realize. And bringing this up as an example is so important because it does hold strong as that child gets older. I mean, I think if as adults, we can all sit back and think about the things our parents may have said or done and think about that shame that could have caused.

 

00;36;59;15 – 00;37;13;07

Dr. Mona

And like you said, we want to really be on their team. It’s so important. And when we are on their team, we’re going to see the choices they make. We’re going to be able to have these conversations in a healthy way. They may even share their chocolate with us when they know that they’re on the same team is us.

 

00;37;13;12 – 00;37;21;26

Dr. Mona

I just think it’s so beautiful. So thank you for the way you approach this so beautifully. So it is such a sensitive manner. I really appreciate this conversation today.

 

00;37;21;28 – 00;37;24;06

Kate Kiersey

Yeah, it’s been wonderful to chat with you.

 

00;37;24;08 – 00;37;31;00

Dr. Mona

So where can my guests find you, you know, for your resources and tell us more about what you have to offer as well. Said Family Nutrition.

 

00;37;31;02 – 00;37;55;13

Kate Kiersey

Yeah. So my website is w WW dot welfare dot family, not.com dot family. So people can find me on there. I do one on one nutrition counseling. In Georgia only at this time. Okay. You know, if people message me, I’m open to getting licensure elsewhere. I’m also coming out with a course in January for just how to feed your family.

 

00;37;55;13 – 00;38;06;14

Kate Kiersey

Well, especially if you’re concerned that your child’s weight is too high or too low. And people can also find me on Instagram at Well-fed Dot family beautiful.

 

00;38;06;14 – 00;38;12;24

Dr. Mona

And we will attach all of those links for all of you listening today. And I really want to thank Kate for joining us.

 

00;38;12;27 – 00;38;14;21

Kate Kiersey

Thank you so much for having me.

 

00;38;14;24 – 00;38;37;11

Dr. Mona

And for everyone listening. I’m sure you really enjoyed this conversation. I love talking about this, especially with experts in the field. It’s just so important to have these conversations on this podcast for all of you to hear. So that you can approach meals and snacks in a healthy way. So if you like this episode, make sure you leave a review and call out this episode, especially Kate and her resources on how amazing it is.

 

00;38;37;11 – 00;38;58;03

Dr. Mona

It means so much to this podcast and for it to continue to grow when you leave those reviews. And I cannot wait to talk to another guest next week. Thank you for tuning in for this week’s episode. As always, please leave a review. Share this episode with a friend. Share it on your social media. Make sure to follow me at PedsDocTalk on Instagram and subscribe to my YouTube channel.

 

00;38;58;05 – 00;39;00;24

Dr. Mona

PedsDocTalk TV. We’ll talk to you soon.