Think your pediatrician has all the breastfeeding answers? The truth is, most don’t and that’s not a knock on them. It’s a reflection of the limited lactation training in pediatric residency.

That’s why I sat down with Dr. Lauren Hughes, founder of Bloom Pediatrics and a double threat: pediatrician and IBCLC. Together, we unpack the myths, the mental load, and the real deal about breastfeeding support that parents deserve but don’t always get in those early days.

We talk about:

• Why pediatricians often give confusing (or just plain wrong) advice around lactation

• How the term “nipple confusion” creates shame instead of support and what’s really going on with flow preference

• How pumping, pacifiers, and supplementation can all fit into a successful feeding planWhy protecting a parent’s mental health is just as important as protecting their milk supply

To connect with Dr. Lauren Hughes follow her on Instagram ⁠@bloomdcp⁠ and check out all her resources at ⁠https://www.drlaurenhughes.com/⁠

We’d like to know who is listening! Please fill out our ⁠Listener Survey⁠ to help us improve the show and learn about you!

00:00 – Intro

03:08 – Meet Dr. Lauren: Pediatrician and IBCLC

05:29 – Breastfeeding Training Gaps in Pediatrics

07:57 – What Parents Deserve in Feeding Support

10:20 – How DPC Supports Better Lactation Care

12:11 – Why Pediatricians Should Also Be IBCLCs

14:23 – The Pacifier Panic: When to Introduce It

17:13 – Formula Stigma and Feeding Shame

20:11 – Healing from Birth and Feeding Trauma

22:30 – “Science Milk”: Reframing Formula

24:12 – How to Talk About Pacifiers (Without Judging Moms)

26:25 – Exclusive Pumping is Still Breastfeeding

27:58 – The Role of Policy in Feeding Goals

29:11 – Supplementing Wisely: When and How

31:15 – Pumped Milk vs. Formula: Stop the Math Game

33:18 – Babies Aren’t Robots

35:15 – The Problem with Overtracking Feeds

36:05 – Protecting Supply: What Pediatricians Miss

37:11 – Triple Feeding: What Actually Helps

40:33 – The Sleep Trap: Prioritizing Baby Sleep Over Supply

41:08 – Realistic Overnight Routines for Pumping Parents

42:54 – Twin Feeding Realities + Supply Building

43:34 – Time Limits at the Breast: Who Are They For?

45:46 – One Last Myth: Formula Before Bed = Better Sleep?

47:19 – Final Words: Your Worth Isn’t Measured in Ounces

Our podcasts are also now on YouTube. If you prefer a video podcast with closed captioning, check us out there and⁠ ⁠subscribe to PedsDocTalk⁠⁠.

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00;00;00;01 – 00;00;17;22

Dr. Lauren Hughes

My line. Whenever people ask if it creates nipple fusion is I have never met a baby that confuses what feeds them and what does for me. Nipple confusion, which is the phrase that people use whenever you’re giving a bottle, or a pacifier that you’re confusing that for the breast. And then they’re going to prefer that over the breast because now they’re confused about what to take.

 

00;00;17;24 – 00;00;34;18

Dr. Lauren Hughes

So because of our training, I actually understand now that no, that’s just affirmed that stimulus, which is different than a breast and it is flow preference.

 

00;00;34;21 – 00;01;00;18

Dr. Mona

Welcome to the PedsDocTalk podcast. I’m Doctor Mona, your favorite online pediatrician. Maybe IBCLC and mom friend who’s here to help you cut through the noise and feel more confident in your parenting. August is recognized as National Breastfeeding Month, with World Breastfeeding Week celebrated globally from August 1st to the seventh, is a time to promote and support breastfeeding while also acknowledging the real world challenges families face in those early feeding months.

 

00;01;00;20 – 00;01;27;01

Dr. Mona

So for this episode, I wanted to bring on one of my favorite people, a fellow pediatrician, and Ibclc because that combo is rare but incredibly valuable. Did you know that not all pediatricians are trained in breastfeeding? Gasp! Unless we’ve pursued a clc or IBclc certification, we’re honestly not even close to being experts. And even among those of us who do have the license, our experience varies widely.

 

00;01;27;02 – 00;01;56;06

Dr. Mona

Like, for example, I’m really good at educating on pumping combo feeding, and I could be better at helping with skills at nursing, at the breast. That’s why I’m thrilled to be joined by the incredible doctor Lauren, who’s a board certified pediatrician, Ibkr C and founder of bloom, DPC and Lactation in Kansas City. She’s a mom of three, including twins, a wife of over ten years, and someone who brings warmth, clarity and no nonsense advice to every feeding, conversation.

 

00;01;56;06 – 00;02;22;00

Dr. Mona

Parenting and child development conversation. In this episode, we’re breaking down breastfeeding advice we wish would go away. Hello nipple confusion. Panic. The biggest mistakes we see around formula supplementation, what those early feeding conversations should sound like, and how we as pediatricians can and should do better in breastfeeding conversations. I got my IBCLC in 2021, six years after finishing residency, because I saw the gap firsthand.

 

00;02;22;03 – 00;02;45;20

Dr. Mona

If you work in outpatient pediatrics, I truly believe there should be a required IBC like track during training. If we’re counseling families on feeding, we need to know what we’re talking about across all feeding journeys, from breast to bottle to formula and everything in between. This episode is for pediatricians, for ABCs, and for parents who want to feel empowered and supported without shame or confusion.

 

00;02;45;23 – 00;03;08;24

Dr. Mona

So if that’s you, hit subscribe, download this episode and share it with someone who needs it. And after you listen, you’re going to head to Instagram or YouTube at the Doc Talk podcast on Instagram because I want to hear your thoughts, your stories, and the feeding advice you wish someone had told you or didn’t tell you. Let’s get into it.

 

00;03;08;26 – 00;03;10;29

Dr. Mona

Welcome, doctor Lauren.

 

00;03;11;01 – 00;03;13;02

Dr. Lauren Hughes

Thank you for having me.

 

00;03;13;04 – 00;03;31;13

Dr. Mona

I am so excited. So I you know, obviously we follow each other on social media. And I really started following you. I’ll be honest, I knew you probably existed, but I didn’t really follow you probably in the last year. And I was like, who is this amazing woman and why did I not know her in my life? And I love the way you give out information.

 

00;03;31;16 – 00;03;51;28

Dr. Mona

I love what you’re doing. Obviously, we’re recording this at a time where we’re seeing a lot of, you know, misinformation more than we ever have, especially, you know, from the higher ups. But for anyone who doesn’t know, you tell us a little bit more about yourself. What prompted you to start Blum Pediatrics, and also what prompted you to get your ABCs certification?

 

00;03;52;00 – 00;03;52;28

Dr. Lauren Hughes

Oh, okay.

 

00;03;52;28 – 00;03;53;14

Dr. Mona

I love those.

 

00;03;53;14 – 00;04;28;26

Dr. Lauren Hughes

Two. I yeah, so, started my direct primary care practice because, in residency, I actually started understanding what medicine was, and which was a lot of clicking boxes, meeting metrics, insurance requirements, yada, yada, and, and it just was not really morally or ethically aligned with who I am. I was constantly in trouble for for being too slow, for talking too long, for not going fast enough, for not seeing patients fast enough.

 

00;04;28;29 – 00;04;35;11

Dr. Lauren Hughes

And, I just was like, this can’t this can’t be the rest of my life.

 

00;04;35;13 – 00;04;36;05

Dr. Mona

Yeah.

 

00;04;36;07 – 00;04;48;19

Dr. Lauren Hughes

So then I discovered direct primary care, and it was a no brainer for me. So I opened Blum Pediatrics the day after I graduated residency, and I am now in the process of hiring my third physician.

 

00;04;48;21 – 00;04;56;24

Dr. Mona

Amazing. Or just story sounds a lot like mine, except that I have not started my DPC practice, which I want to do. So I’m going to be picking your brain when it finally happens. Yeah.

 

00;04;56;24 – 00;05;03;00

Dr. Lauren Hughes

Okay. I, I have, I have converted many a doctors my I.

 

00;05;03;00 – 00;05;03;25

Dr. Mona

Love that.

 

00;05;03;27 – 00;05;29;04

Dr. Lauren Hughes

My own PCP. When he found out I was a physician, he was like, what? You’re happy? What does he want? She wouldn’t tell. So I was like, but you’re happy. And then I explained it. And by the end of the year, he had switched, using my I lc. I feel like I got it, which is a lot of the reason a lot of people did because I struggled breastfeeding.

 

00;05;29;04 – 00;05;51;09

Dr. Lauren Hughes

My first, he had a tongue tie. I was getting a ton of information. That was contradictory. I didn’t know where to go. And so I bet you are also, doctor milk. That was that was my lifeline. And then when I was on Doctor Milk and I started, learning from all these other people was like, gosh, this is like, it’s actually fascinating.

 

00;05;51;10 – 00;06;11;16

Dr. Lauren Hughes

Like understanding, like the science behind breastfeeding. Not just like, do I get my clit, my kid’s tongue tied, clipped or not, but like, then the actual, like, physiology of, like, how does this suck work? How like, what do we do about these things? What, you know, all of that stuff. And so then it just became fascinating. And so I got my IB TLC when I was a second year resident.

 

00;06;11;19 – 00;06;17;13

Dr. Mona

I love that. Wow. And so you were able to do it in residency. So you got your hours. You did the test in residency.

 

00;06;17;16 – 00;06;17;25

Dr. Lauren Hughes

Yeah.

 

00;06;17;25 – 00;06;18;09

Dr. Mona

I mean.

 

00;06;18;11 – 00;06;23;01

Dr. Lauren Hughes

I love that he is pretty, pretty breastfeeding heavy. Actually. Yeah.

 

00;06;23;02 – 00;06;23;28

Dr. Mona

It’s amazing.

 

00;06;24;00 – 00;06;31;06

Dr. Lauren Hughes

And like, in the newborn nursery and literally that is the majority of your job. So it was pretty easy to get the hours.

 

00;06;31;08 – 00;06;51;06

Dr. Mona

I love hearing that. Like I said, I love a good origin story. Like what made us do what we do. What made you start, you know, bloom DPC, the lactation consultant I always wanted to do get my IB CLK certification and I think me and you can both say this, that in residency, although we get a lot of like hands on, you know it is a different degree, right.

 

00;06;51;06 – 00;07;10;16

Dr. Mona

Like going through the IPCC, IBC certification, having that I didn’t think I had the time in residency, so I got it once I had my son similar thing that I had a very difficult experience. I met a lot of because that made my journey not great with my son and I was like, I think this can be better.

 

00;07;10;16 – 00;07;33;09

Dr. Mona

I think I can do better in the sense that I can bridge a little bit of what I know about formula supplementation and the balance, but also promote breastfeeding and pumping, which was also not in heavy in the IPCC curriculum. And so I did that and so I got mine in 2021. And like in the pandemic, after having my son, and it’s been such a great thing.

 

00;07;33;09 – 00;07;57;03

Dr. Mona

And I think to start off, I think most people don’t realize that some pediatricians don’t have the level of lactation knowledge that obviously CLX, IB classes have. And that is okay to say, and I think more pediatricians need to accept that reality, that that’s why we utilize the people who know more than us in this field. And I’m sure you feel the same way.

 

00;07;57;05 – 00;08;05;20

Dr. Mona

Now, let’s take a quick break to hear from our sponsors who support helps us keep bringing you this show.

 

00;08;05;23 – 00;08;26;21

Dr. Lauren Hughes

Oh yeah, and that like your own. There’s so much of like, oh well, I breastfed a kid, so therefore I know these things. No no no no. It’s very like your own lived experience. And just like with everything in medicine, your own lived experience is not generalizable. And I think, man, I really wish that peds residency. I mean, you can’t fit this all in in three years.

 

00;08;26;21 – 00;08;48;04

Dr. Lauren Hughes

We wish more lactation because it is such a it’s so hard to care for the child whenever it’s such an important part of how they are growing and developing, which is our core goal, right, is to, like, have a child grow up and be healthy and happy and all those things. But it’s so intertwined that, like, you just you can’t really separate them.

 

00;08;48;04 – 00;08;53;04

Dr. Lauren Hughes

And I wish there was more training, but there’s not enough time to have the life that you need.

 

00;08;53;06 – 00;09;22;11

Dr. Mona

I really think it should be. I mean, I think in or maybe my, my philosophy is that if someone I think, I think pediatric residency should be two years and then that third year, depending on what you want to do. So for example, if we know we want to do gen Pedes, you are taking your IB CLC certification and Gen PDS because you think about it, you can you can figure out a curriculum that you do the things in two years, and then people focus on what they know they want to do in that third year, almost like how we did in medical school with like the fourth year rotations.

 

00;09;22;13 – 00;09;47;02

Dr. Mona

And then in that third year, get your IB, CLC certification if you know you’re doing Gen pedes because you I think it’s useful for a like a gypsy gi to know like I see education. No like but it is extremely valuable like I have I felt like I got this super power skill once I got my IB, CLC, and I felt like I could really connect better with those moms in those first few weeks.

 

00;09;47;02 – 00;10;10;07

Dr. Mona

And a lot of the stuff that I was doing was trained by people who did not have IB CLC certification as pediatrician, so it was not always correct, which will get into a lot of it wasn’t in-tune with all the in-depth physiology we learned in our IBC, you’ll training and the practice we’re doing after. Like it’s not just about taking the like getting the license, it’s about actually putting it into practice after we get it implementing.

 

00;10;10;07 – 00;10;10;21

Dr. Lauren Hughes

Yes.

 

00;10;10;21 – 00;10;20;20

Dr. Mona

Yeah. And I’m sure I mean, I’m sure it being a DPC, clinician, like owning your own practice and having that has been like so beneficial to your patients, Garcia.

 

00;10;20;27 – 00;10;50;04

Dr. Lauren Hughes

And it’s been beneficial for the community because I, I’m a referral source. So I have been a referral source for like OB guides who have a patient that has, you know, they have this, pituitary issue and, like, need help. Like what labs we order. I do lactation consultations. I had someone with, idiopathic granulomatous mastitis and, like, was able to diagnose that, like those sorts of things that I’m able to then assist our community, like people outside of my practice.

 

00;10;50;11 – 00;11;09;28

Dr. Lauren Hughes

Like I think it’s just such a benefit. And then to have, like, a reliable source of, like, someone that could be like, hey, here’s what I think about your kids tongue tie. Here’s what I would recommend. Here’s what I don’t recommend. And just being a like, lay out the data as opposed to, you know, oh, that doesn’t exist.

 

00;11;09;28 – 00;11;12;04

Dr. Lauren Hughes

Or let’s cut everything.

 

00;11;12;07 – 00;11;32;07

Dr. Mona

And I think the beautiful thing about having this pediatric IBC like link, which again, I think it should be a requirement for all gen pedes doctors, is that like you said earlier, the ability to look at the holistic child? I think what happens if you are a IBC like Kelsey, obviously you know the feeding stuff, but you don’t technically know all the other stuff, right?

 

00;11;32;07 – 00;11;48;24

Dr. Mona

Lux? You know, you don’t know how to manage that. You don’t know how to manage all the other things and all the other developmental things. So then it becomes pigeonholed. And then, like you said, it could be, well, let’s just release the tie. Well, yeah. Let’s also talk about what’s going on. You know, I like that. I think it’s such a holistic thing.

 

00;11;48;24 – 00;12;11;06

Dr. Mona

And I have felt that. And I’m so happy that that you have as well. And that’s why I was so happy to connect about the topic that we’re going to talk about, which is what I think a lot of people don’t realize about breastfeeding and the advice they may be getting from pediatricians, and how we should be saying this like, we want this information out there that a pediatrician that does not have ABC training is not the same as an IB.

 

00;12;11;06 – 00;12;35;02

Dr. Mona

Kelsey. Right? I mean, they or Kelsey. Right? Like there’s more information, there’s more understanding of all the processes. And one last thing, even for myself, I, I think I, you know, I have the license, I think I still could be better at getting advice and tips on latching, like because I ended up becoming an ABC C and do a lot more pumping education because it’s what I did, and it’s also what my a lot of my family’s want.

 

00;12;35;02 – 00;12;36;06

Dr. Mona

You know?

 

00;12;36;09 – 00;12;56;17

Dr. Lauren Hughes

And so I was the same. And so I’m actually in the middle of a two year course, through I able to like, actually get a much deeper understanding of not only vitamin D and that stuff, but like, okay, anatomical issues. If a kid with cleft, you have a kid with gift with, low tone, something like that, where then I can even expand my knowledge further.

 

00;12;56;19 – 00;13;13;12

Dr. Mona

I love that, I mean, you’re a forever learner. It sounds like. And I think that’s what most clinicians are. And I hope we are right. Like we always want to, like, advance ourselves. So we are very shalonda if if you haven’t seen our shirts, if you’re watching this on YouTube, these are our amazing shirts. I found it and then I messaged Lauren.

 

00;13;13;12 – 00;13;15;29

Dr. Mona

And I’m like you, I think need to have the shirt.

 

00;13;15;29 – 00;13;19;08

Dr. Lauren Hughes

And she’s like, send me the link.

 

00;13;19;10 – 00;13;20;08

Dr. Mona

And,

 

00;13;20;11 – 00;13;24;02

Dr. Lauren Hughes

There’s one thing about me as I am not nonchalant.

 

00;13;24;04 – 00;13;45;18

Dr. Mona

Yes, correct. So this is perfect for you. You are the opposite, which is excellent AF. And I love it. And I will say you are on your socials. You are definitely silent AF more than I am. Like I in my real life. Which is like you have inspired me to be more like that online because yes, I yes, and I love that about you.

 

00;13;45;18 – 00;14;04;01

Dr. Mona

And I was like, I like this girl. Like she’s doing what she’s doing. I have a feeling this is how she talks in real life. And so I started incorporating a lot of that in my content. So thank you, Lauren, for really inspiring me to be more silent AF on my content I love it. Oh, you’re going to.

 

00;14;04;04 – 00;14;23;06

Dr. Mona

Yeah, we’re going to chat about. So one of the things that we had talked about before recording this episode is breastfeeding tips that pediatricians don’t always share. And so it is going to be debuting this episode during World Breastfeeding Week. So we thought this would be really good to kind of separate what you may hear at your pediatricians office, what is really true.

 

00;14;23;06 – 00;14;45;15

Dr. Mona

And these are this is coming from two pediatricians who are also IB classes that are really trying to find that balance. So there’s no fear mongering here. There’s no extremes here. It’s really trying to truly help people and moms, you know, figure out this whole crazy world. So the first question I have for you is this common worry for new parents about nipple confusion, you know, is it real?

 

00;14;45;21 – 00;14;52;28

Dr. Mona

Is it an overused term? What do you feel when it comes to that term, nipple confusion? And what is it for people who may not know? Yeah.

 

00;14;53;00 – 00;15;13;03

Dr. Lauren Hughes

My line whenever people ask if it creates nipple fusion is I have never met a baby that confuses what feeds them and what doesn’t. Yeah. Never one. So that is my my initial thing, but it’s for me nipple confusion, which is the phrase that people use whenever you’re giving a bottle, or a pacifier that you’re confusing that for the breast.

 

00;15;13;03 – 00;15;35;11

Dr. Lauren Hughes

And then they’re going to prefer that over the breast because now they’re confused about what to take. So because of our training, I actually understand now that, no, that’s just a firm stimulus, which is different than a breast and it is flow preference. So as humans, we from the day we come out, we are always going to take the path of least resistance.

 

00;15;35;11 – 00;15;53;12

Dr. Lauren Hughes

And if I just have to lay down and open my mouth and food comes in and there is zero effort, like, yeah, yeah, that’s what I’m going to do. But if I have to work at it, then it’s going to be a little bit more annoying. And that is the actual difference between nipple confusion of like effort versus not effort.

 

00;15;53;15 – 00;16;02;26

Dr. Lauren Hughes

And so whenever there’s this, you can’t introduce a pacifier till a month or something like that, and I just, I don’t agree.

 

00;16;02;28 – 00;16;05;03

Dr. Mona

 

00;16;05;05 – 00;16;21;27

Dr. Lauren Hughes

Yeah. And I’m also like. But pacifiers are SIDs protective. They can stimulate it overnight and after they remember to keep breathing. And I just the it is I think the the overall goal was really good.

 

00;16;22;00 – 00;16;23;18

Dr. Mona

With like right.

 

00;16;23;20 – 00;16;33;25

Dr. Lauren Hughes

We need to promote breastfeeding. We need to pull away from, from the formula marketing that happened in the 80s and 90s. And like we need to back away from it, but we have just, right.

 

00;16;33;27 – 00;16;50;07

Dr. Mona

Yeah. I feel like, yeah. No, I feel like there has been and that’s why I, I was glad to have this conversation. And I said that is that the modern AI and I’m not going to do the modern AI because Kelsey World and I’m going to say it’s more I’m seeing it with AI because because I talk to a lot of classes that tend to have a more middle ground approach.

 

00;16;50;12 – 00;17;13;07

Dr. Mona

But even as I became an IP, Kelsey and was talking to other ones who were not pediatricians, I just felt like there was this really big polarization. And it was like very interesting to me because I don’t see that level of polarization in pediatrics. Like, as pediatricians, we generally have the same, you know, general belief system. Maybe you just start will be a little bit different on how we manage things.

 

00;17;13;09 – 00;17;31;15

Dr. Mona

If obviously we have a pediatrician who’s a anti-vax like promoting that, that is rare. But when I saw an ibis seal, SeaWorld is that it was all over the place, like it’s almost like it was just coming, like personal belief systems were coming into the, the picture. So I love what you say because I also agree, I love the way you said.

 

00;17;31;15 – 00;17;48;09

Dr. Mona

And I’m going to make sure that that’s a tag. Mark. I’ve never met a baby who confuses what feeds them versus what they don’t. And I think what’s happening here is that when we say that there’s going to be nipple confusion, the anxiety comes in, right? And then the parents like freaking out the moment the baby starts to wiggle at the breast, they’re like, oh my God, they don’t want it.

 

00;17;48;11 – 00;18;04;00

Dr. Mona

They don’t want it. They’re confused. And I think that’s such a healthy reframe for me to say, no, it’s they just need to work on it. It may be a little harder for them, like you said, but it’s not confusing them. They just it’s something they have to work for, which is food. That’s what eating is for a baby.

 

00;18;04;00 – 00;18;05;03

Dr. Mona

And it’s a lot of work.

 

00;18;05;06 – 00;18;33;15

Dr. Lauren Hughes

It is. It’s a lot of work. And I’m like, this is their exercise. This is this is their exercise. They aren’t running miles. They are not doing the old president of this is it? Yeah. They work and it again if I am forced to sprint or walk right. You know it’s it’s such a it’s and then I think that there’s this element of whenever you create you’re like, oh, that creates nipple confusion.

 

00;18;33;15 – 00;18;53;21

Dr. Lauren Hughes

Then there’s this element of failure which is really so deeply ingrained in women and mothers that like, from the moment that those kids come out, you have failed somehow. Maybe you had an epidural, maybe you had, maybe you give a pacifier, or maybe you supplement with a bottle. Maybe you gave formula, maybe you didn’t. Maybe you pumped.

 

00;18;53;21 – 00;19;21;02

Dr. Lauren Hughes

Maybe your baby got whatever. Like you have already. And so I think this is just another way of like this, this self deprecation of like, oh my God, I did this. I could have breastfed, but because I gave a bottle, now there’s nipple confusion and now they’re not going. And I’ve failed in this way. And it’s just another like blow you know.

 

00;19;21;04 – 00;19;36;26

Dr. Mona

Yeah. And it’s and I that’s where that term is. Right on I mean we it’s the first thing that a parent has to do like in their life as a parent. Right. Is feeding a kid and especially when we when it comes to breastfeeding. And I know you said you had difficulty with your son or your older child.

 

00;19;36;26 – 00;19;47;16

Dr. Mona

I’m not sure I myself. Yeah. And me too. Right? I mean, I had a very traumatic delivery. People know that I couldn’t produce like my body was like, you know what? You don’t need to make milk right now.

 

00;19;47;16 – 00;19;48;09

Dr. Lauren Hughes

You need to.

 

00;19;48;12 – 00;20;11;08

Dr. Mona

Heal. You need to heal the sepsis in your body. So we’re not going to divert resources to produce breast milk. And it was a really hard thing, you know, and I, I had gone into that with this sort of education that I got from residency, that breastfeeding is what we do. And I’m going to be quite transparent. And also this sort of stigma, that formula was for lower income families.

 

00;20;11;08 – 00;20;38;04

Dr. Mona

Formula was for for people who didn’t try enough. That was the the assumption and stigma. And I’m being very honest about that. And as I became a mother, I was like, no, like so many more people I know who are capable, able just either don’t want to or their body can’t. And that’s not failure. Yeah. Now let’s take a quick break to hear from our sponsors who support helps us keep bringing you this show.

 

00;20;38;07 – 00;21;05;25

Dr. Lauren Hughes

Oh my. Oh God. This is such a like. Yes. That’s such a right that it’s that you. I love that someone had said to me once that they they’re framed formula as science milk and I love that. Oh yeah. Much that you know I’m not. You didn’t fail because your child has a pancreas that doesn’t work. And now you have to give them insulin.

 

00;21;06;02 – 00;21;26;26

Dr. Lauren Hughes

You didn’t fail. Yeah. You had a hemorrhage after birth and your hemoglobin is four and now you don’t have enough blood to produce breast milk. Like, sometimes shit happens and it’s not. And there’s not a blame. And because we can’t pinpoint it, then the default to blame is automatically that parent. And it’s.

 

00;21;26;28 – 00;21;45;11

Dr. Mona

Driven. Yeah. And it’s and the problem is, is that online. Right. As you, you know as well because you’re very heavy on doing a lot of breastfeeding content. And also, you know, you see what’s going on there with other creators. Right? And a lot of that, that guilt and shame, and I mean, I see it in my comment section whenever I speak about formula, even though I’m pro breastfeeding.

 

00;21;45;11 – 00;22;08;07

Dr. Mona

Right. Because I’m pro both. Right? I’m pro. What do we need to do for the baby and the family? Right. It’s always like, you know, it’s always like, but why don’t you just feed the formula like a good mom will feed the. Oh, sorry. Why don’t you feed the breast like a good mom will feed the breast? And I’m like, how have we created a moral standard on these things when we don’t even know what is actually happening in that person’s life?

 

00;22;08;07 – 00;22;30;23

Dr. Mona

Like? And I use that example of what you went through, what I went through, what a lot of moms go through. And besides the point, some people just don’t want to. And awesome. Like, if you don’t want to, I’m not worried because like you said, it’s science milk. It’s actually pretty good. Like, I mean, we’re not putting we put this on such a high pedestal, but it’s not like formula is this awful thing that now your child is going to end up with a low IQ and diabetes.

 

00;22;30;23 – 00;22;42;17

Dr. Mona

I mean that that negative assumption is what I think drives so much. So much stress. And then as we know, stress doesn’t help the breastfeeding relationship either. So it’s all just a lose lose for everybody. It is.

 

00;22;42;17 – 00;22;46;22

Dr. Lauren Hughes

And I I’ll I’m like walk down the street and tell me who is breastfed and formula fed.

 

00;22;46;23 – 00;22;54;23

Dr. Mona

Exactly. Like I’m curious out of you were you like do you like were you breast or formula? I’m just curious.

 

00;22;54;25 – 00;22;58;01

Dr. Lauren Hughes

My mom said she breastfed me till the day I bit her. And then she was like.

 

00;22;58;08 – 00;23;17;14

Dr. Mona

I love it. My mom formula fed both me and my sister, and she doesn’t have any regrets about it. This was the 80s, and she was like, Mona, I had to go back to work and everything dried up and I was busy. I mean, an immigrant mom working 40 hours a week. Stress does her stress AF, right? I’m like mom and she she doesn’t have any guilt about it.

 

00;23;17;14 – 00;23;27;08

Dr. Mona

She’s like, it’s just what happened. And I’m like, you shouldn’t I? I love I think I turned out really great, like I’m smart, like, I, I’m healthy.

 

00;23;27;10 – 00;23;32;26

Dr. Lauren Hughes

And like, yeah, just fine. Yes, I mean DVT but.

 

00;23;32;28 – 00;23;36;12

Dr. Mona

Yeah, it’s you’re good, you’re good, you’re good.

 

00;23;36;14 – 00;23;57;09

Dr. Lauren Hughes

It’s such a, like a going back to your, your, your thing about like how there’s this low, like how formula is associated with low and like low income, low education like that is this that’s this assumption. And I swear to God, the most comment I get from about like she should be breastfeeding is from old white men.

 

00;23;57;11 – 00;23;59;05

Dr. Mona

Just oh interesting.

 

00;23;59;08 – 00;24;05;21

Dr. Lauren Hughes

That it is like that is usually, like the people that are commenting and then just.

 

00;24;05;24 – 00;24;10;24

Dr. Mona

Weird like that is weird. Gross. I, I don’t understand.

 

00;24;10;27 – 00;24;12;03

Dr. Lauren Hughes

Where their,

 

00;24;12;05 – 00;24;29;19

Dr. Mona

Audience is. So you talked about pacifiers and I, you know, you alluded to it when you talk when we were chatting about the nipple confusion. So what is your general advice on introducing whenever you’re want to when breastfeeding is established like that terminology. What is your sort of guidance on that. And they may differ by baby by baby.

 

00;24;29;21 – 00;24;53;19

Dr. Lauren Hughes

So mine is that I just like pacifiers that are shaped like a nipple. And so then it’s just it keeps their tongue and sock patterns similar, but even that’s not like a hard and fast like, if they’re like, what kind of pacifier should I use? I’m like, I like this one. So I am like, you give it whenever you want to your you, your baby, you just fed your baby.

 

00;24;53;19 – 00;25;05;08

Dr. Lauren Hughes

And they’re fussy and they want to go back to sleep. Pop, pop that in. My mother in law calls them plugs. And I think that that is the best term. And she’d be like, where’s the plug? Like I didn’t exactly.

 

00;25;05;11 – 00;25;11;05

Dr. Mona

You just oh my gosh. Yeah. We we need the mute mute button right now.

 

00;25;11;05 – 00;25;15;00

Dr. Lauren Hughes

Let me just press the button.

 

00;25;15;03 – 00;25;31;17

Dr. Mona

So cute. I love that though. No. And I love hearing that advice because yes I mean, there is a lot of this, like you said, introducing at one month, which, let’s be honest, that it’s so it can be so useful beyond what you mentioned about the SIDs, you know, protection just from a comfort protection, comfort idea. Right.

 

00;25;31;17 – 00;25;47;11

Dr. Mona

Like, I think one of the biggest things that I think a lot of moms that I talked to, a lot of the moms that end up coming into my office, do not enjoy comfort feeding, meaning they it’s interesting. Like they’re like, I like feeding, but I don’t want to be that weird. My baby’s just.

 

00;25;47;11 – 00;25;49;25

Dr. Lauren Hughes

Using the pacifier. Yes.

 

00;25;49;25 – 00;26;09;01

Dr. Mona

And I and I, that’s what happens, right? And I say that’s valid. Like some moms love that. Like they want to be the pacifier. Plus the feeder. But I’m like, if your goal is only feeding, feed the baby. And then hello Parsi. Right. And I think that that’s a very valid thing because I think when we get into this, but it’s this beautiful, wonderful thing.

 

00;26;09;01 – 00;26;25;22

Dr. Mona

Yes, it is for you. But some women like myself, I, my daughter was nursing and then when she was using me as a pacifier and like I had a really bad nipple trauma fear. Like it was this weird irrational thing. I was like, and let’s not do this. And I went to exclusive pumping, which was a blessing for me.

 

00;26;25;24 – 00;26;42;07

Dr. Mona

But yeah, it was that reality that I was like, I was so afraid of her just ripping my nipple off because of all the other trauma I had that I was like, you know what? This hurts me. I don’t want this. And so it was a personal choice. And I loved our pumping journey like it was such a blessing for what we got.

 

00;26;42;09 – 00;26;48;08

Dr. Mona

But it’s about choice and about understanding. What is that woman in front of you asking for? Like, what? If you want? Yeah.

 

00;26;48;10 – 00;27;04;11

Dr. Lauren Hughes

That’s always where I start. I’m like, what is your goal? Is your goal to exclusively breastfeed at the breast? Is your goal to provide is your goal to provide breast milk? Is your goal to give as much as you can? Is your goal to dry up? Like what is your goal? Because you also are you’re working both.

 

00;27;04;13 – 00;27;13;05

Dr. Lauren Hughes

You have to figure out in the U.S especially how to marry their goals with what is actually possible with like policy.

 

00;27;13;07 – 00;27;14;22

Dr. Mona

I love that that stuff.

 

00;27;14;22 – 00;27;41;14

Dr. Lauren Hughes

And so it is it’s maybe you do have this dream of exclusively breastfeeding, but you are a surgeon or some are you? You’re in the air or something or you do, you’re a firefighter or something like that where, yeah, you don’t have predictability. You don’t always have protection to go and sit and pump because maybe someone’s life is on the line, or maybe that someone you’re you’re your job doesn’t allow it or provide that.

 

00;27;41;18 – 00;27;45;08

Dr. Lauren Hughes

And it’s you’re going back to work it. I went back to work at six weeks.

 

00;27;45;08 – 00;27;46;21

Dr. Mona

Like, yeah.

 

00;27;46;24 – 00;27;58;07

Dr. Lauren Hughes

It just sometimes the cards are stacked against you and like you have to know that it’s not always going to be just as simple as I want to versus I don’t.

 

00;27;58;10 – 00;28;18;02

Dr. Mona

Right? I love that it is. And I think that knowing that and hearing that and putting that out there really should be the message for when people have those assumptions, like those old white men that were telling you weird. But anyone. Right. And I, you know, I think one of the biggest things that I’ve changed since practicing, I’ve now been ten years out of residency this year, which is wild.

 

00;28;18;02 – 00;28;49;18

Dr. Mona

Anyways, it’s not even a judgment thing, but it’s more removing assumptions about people, right? Like, I think all the all that is so important and I think so much of society, including women, mothers, make assumptions about other mothers and their reality when they are not in their shoes. And if we can move past that and say, this is my reality because of my resources, because I don’t have to go back to work at six weeks, and because I have a partner who’s able to help me with night feeds or so many little things, right, like and we don’t we forget about that.

 

00;28;49;18 – 00;29;11;03

Dr. Mona

And I think that’s such a healthy, healthy thing for people to remember. I also want to talk about supplementing because I think I’m curious what you were taught or what you approach before becoming an IB seal. See what you feel like. Maybe many pediatricians make it wrong about supplementing. Or maybe, also what families, their misconception about supplementing or when it should happen.

 

00;29;11;03 – 00;29;19;21

Dr. Mona

Like when we’re sup when we think about again supplementing a bottle of pump breast milk or formula. When should that happen? And what are we think? What are we seeing about that.

 

00;29;19;24 – 00;29;22;12

Dr. Lauren Hughes

So oh I have so many thoughts. Yeah.

 

00;29;22;12 – 00;29;24;25

Dr. Mona

And I think I me too. And that’s why I’m curious. Yeah.

 

00;29;24;28 – 00;29;46;10

Dr. Lauren Hughes

So okay. Like starting in the newborn period. Yeah. What drives me nuts is the supplementing for a baby who has lost more than 10% in the first 24 hours after a prolonged C-section, prolong fluids or something. So I, one of my, one of my attendings would always say, use your smart doctor brain and realize that that is not that’s not possible to lose actual 10% like they are peeing out water weight.

 

00;29;46;10 – 00;30;02;02

Dr. Lauren Hughes

Like use your smart doctor brain and you do not need to supplement for that. And so that was one of, I think, one of the most helpful things, because other attendings that I worked with, they would be like, oh my gosh, they lost 10%. That’s the number. And not on text of what was birth like. What was the birth weight like?

 

00;30;02;02 – 00;30;24;16

Dr. Lauren Hughes

What was the ID fluid, what was like the overall picture? How often is this kid feeding? Like what was their 12 hour wait? And like looking at that entire thing rather than just like, oh, 10% supplement? And that so that is one thing that drives me, not the another is saying that you need to give 30 miles or x number of miles after every feed.

 

00;30;24;18 – 00;30;26;23

Dr. Mona

Oh my God. Yes.

 

00;30;26;25 – 00;30;30;12

Dr. Lauren Hughes

And then if you don’t finish it, what are you going to do. You can drop an G.

 

00;30;30;14 – 00;30;32;02

Dr. Mona

I know right. Yeah, it’s.

 

00;30;32;04 – 00;30;45;13

Dr. Lauren Hughes

More than that. Are you going to refuse or then not giving an out plan. Not like not giving a way out of this of like okay, you’re going to start triple feeding, which is a I did that for four weeks and it is a nightmare.

 

00;30;45;15 – 00;30;47;02

Dr. Mona

I did it to awful.

 

00;30;47;05 – 00;31;03;02

Dr. Lauren Hughes

But feed that baby you do nothing else and and not giving a way out of it. Not telling them when to increase. Not understanding the physiology of when prolactin is highest. And you’re probably not going to need this supplement first thing in the morning, but you may need the supplement more in the afternoon. And that is not a failure.

 

00;31;03;02 – 00;31;15;11

Dr. Lauren Hughes

That is normal physiology, but not explaining those supplementation. And then you have the one bottle. One bottle changes the microbiome. For me.

 

00;31;15;14 – 00;31;34;20

Dr. Mona

I I’ve gotten so many DMs about these videos online and I’m like, oh my God. Like, are we seriously getting down that line? But yes, that is there’s so much misinformation around the again, the formula supplementation. But I love the tip you just mentioned about the the 7 to 10% and how we we shouldn’t be using that number alone.

 

00;31;34;20 – 00;31;51;23

Dr. Mona

And you brought up so many different factors. I mean I’m also looking at what is the feeding like, like if the moms telling me there’s a great transfer, if I can look and I can see the transfer, some babies could just be slower and then bringing them back sooner, like you don’t have to. So you could just say, hey, you know what?

 

00;31;51;29 – 00;31;56;27

Dr. Mona

This is a little borderline. I’m a little I’m watching this feeding. Let’s see you back in two days.

 

00;31;57;00 – 00;31;57;26

Dr. Lauren Hughes

Yeah.

 

00;31;57;29 – 00;32;00;25

Dr. Mona

Like it’s it’s it’s simple.

 

00;32;01;00 – 00;32;06;28

Dr. Lauren Hughes

And honestly was like a plug for DPC. It’s so easy. And I’ll be like, no, hey, leave my scale, text.

 

00;32;06;28 – 00;32;07;29

Dr. Mona

Me I know.

 

00;32;08;02 – 00;32;22;09

Dr. Lauren Hughes

Thing. Let’s do a naked way. Oh, let’s do it. You’re you feel really like this was a good feed? Let’s do a weighted train like I you can do. So I had, like, such good detailed care like that. And I just, I love it.

 

00;32;22;12 – 00;32;36;21

Dr. Mona

Yeah. I was just going to say I’m like, I that’s exactly why. That’s my future plan. I’m still trying to figure out where we’re going to live in this world before we set up a practice, I don’t want to settle and then we move because we’re rethink. We’re keep thinking about relocating out of Florida. But we can’t make up our mind.

 

00;32;36;23 – 00;32;52;26

Dr. Mona

But I can’t wait to pick your brain. Side note about DPC, because it does sound exactly like why I would need to do it with the corporate medicine. I don’t have enough time. This is so draining. All of that. But no, I love that. I love that point about the looking at the whole picture holistic approach. And then that number.

 

00;32;52;29 – 00;33;18;08

Dr. Mona

Like, I’ve always just been very stressed about numbers in general, like when people are like, your baby should get two ounces or get this, and at this age they’re going to get this. And I’m like, yo, like, no baby is the same. And that actually caused me anxiety with my daughter. Like. And I was like, me, the pediatrician who knows better in that postpartum anxiety world where all the rationality goes out of your brain?

 

00;33;18;14 – 00;33;29;26

Dr. Mona

I was like, why is my daughter only drinking 3 to 4oz of pumped milk when her brother, the formula feeder, was downing seven? And it’s different. The breast milk’s different. The baby’s.

 

00;33;29;26 – 00;33;53;10

Dr. Lauren Hughes

Different. Yeah. Milk versus stagnant milk. Yeah, like your friends. And then the other part of that is I’m like, okay, now what if I followed you around and I said, you have to eat ten bites of that. You can drink. Yes. That. No, you can’t have any more because you already had your bite. Yes. We eat different amounts based on our needs, based on what growth we’re having, based on our output, based on our like.

 

00;33;53;14 – 00;34;11;17

Dr. Lauren Hughes

There’s so many factors and babies aren’t machines, they are humans. And so it’s going to be a range and they’re going to want more sometimes and less sometimes. And maybe you have a kid that takes three ounces of breast milk and that is all they ever take. And that is fine. And it takes eight ounces of formula and that’s all they take in.

 

00;34;11;17 – 00;34;34;07

Dr. Lauren Hughes

That is all right. It’s just there is this belief that babies come out and we can schedule them. Yeah. And we make them meet our criteria and our schedule. And they are human beings. And that ain’t how it works. And so then that’s another way that feels like you’re failing because you’re like, well, they’re not waiting three hours to have their three ounces.

 

00;34;34;07 – 00;34;43;08

Dr. Lauren Hughes

Therefore I must be doing something wrong. Me because I’m not matching up with the numbers I was told to do. And that’s it’s gray. It’s not like it’s.

 

00;34;43;08 – 00;34;59;02

Dr. Mona

Yeah, it is. So yeah. Any time like, you know, I’m sure you’ve had this and I’ve had to coach my, my family’s out of it like the logs. You know, I like the logs to some degree to just see patterns. But when it’s becoming like number like, okay, well at this point and maybe, maybe for breastfeeding amount time.

 

00;34;59;02 – 00;35;14;29

Dr. Mona

But I’m like what is the process looking like. Like how are they feeding. How are they at the bottle. Versus they were there for 45 minutes versus five minutes. Like, I need to know the actual mechanism. Right. And are they making pee or are they making poo. Like what is the big picture here, you know.

 

00;35;15;01 – 00;35;32;24

Dr. Lauren Hughes

Oh yeah. And I think that part gets so lost or. Yeah. Oh like understanding the nature that happens on day 3 to 5 where then you start coming back up, you miss that nature and then that people are like, oh my gosh, you only gained x, y, z number of grains per day. Not understanding that they actually probably dropped more.

 

00;35;32;24 – 00;35;46;07

Dr. Lauren Hughes

And then now they’re coming back up, which is a significantly bigger game. And that I see that all the time where kids will be considered failure to thrive. And I’m like, yeah, you’re above birth weight at two weeks. How are they failure to thrive like I yeah.

 

00;35;46;10 – 00;36;05;12

Dr. Mona

I, I’m so glad you left like a bigger I mean a bigger practice because now it’s just you. And I’m sure your colleagues are also very like minded in this mindset, you know, like how you approach things. So it’s helpful because I’m at a practice where I am getting patients from other doctors that come to see me for because I’m available and they want to meet me and they know me maybe from online.

 

00;36;05;12 – 00;36;24;05

Dr. Mona

And they’re like, I’m now having to reset all the misinformation that’s been given to them by a clinician who may not be as well versed. And that scares me, right? Because I’m like. And also, that doctor may have recommended supplementation a little earlier than I would have. And then what do they not talk about how to protect supply.

 

00;36;24;07 – 00;36;34;01

Dr. Mona

Which drives me bonkers. I’m like, so did anyone talk to you about if you’re supplementing that, we still need to get your milk removed. So let’s talk about that. Like, I’m sure you’ve heard that too.

 

00;36;34;03 – 00;36;54;00

Dr. Lauren Hughes

Oh yeah. So my favorite is the three rules are feed the baby, protect the milk supply. Keep me at the breast. Yes. That’s your priority. You can’t keep baby at the breast without milk and feeding. You can’t feed the baby without milk like you. It’s such a great tier to remember that that is your order of importance. That’s your.

 

00;36;54;00 – 00;37;11;03

Dr. Lauren Hughes

That’s your priorities. And I will see all the time these like. Yes, like either not telling them how to protect supply or telling them that they have to sanitize their pumps every time or something like, yeah, then it’s like, well, I don’t want to do that every time. I don’t have time to do that. Therefore I’ll just stop.

 

00;37;11;05 – 00;37;34;21

Dr. Lauren Hughes

And it leads to this premature cessation. But with. Yeah, with supplementing. I do see that quite frequently. And also I get, I understand because from their perspective you have like 5 to 10 minutes and I need you to gain weight. And so if I tell you, okay, you need a supplement, I know that kid’s going to gain weight and they’ll be okay.

 

00;37;34;21 – 00;37;53;07

Dr. Lauren Hughes

And that that is easier. Follow up. I know that kid’s going to be fine. I’m not going to be as stressed about it. So like I can for devil’s advocate. Like I can understand. Yeah, that recommendation, just because of the constraints of the health care system that we are currently existing in and but it doesn’t make it right.

 

00;37;53;10 – 00;38;10;02

Dr. Mona

Yes. You know. Absolutely no. And I and as someone who follows, you know, I follow as I follow you, I follow the pediatrician mom, who’s also a DPC. I’m in this world of corporate medicine, but I do a lot of online education. So I see all the things. Right. And I, I think it’s important that we call that out.

 

00;38;10;02 – 00;38;29;07

Dr. Mona

And that’s why I’m happy that you’re here, because we need to say like, hey, these are some missteps that I think as pediatricians are being, you know, making not all, but like some and that here’s the real information and that if you are feeling like that doesn’t make sense. Or maybe you listen to this episode, share it, make sure that you try to get that second opinion and talk to an IBC.

 

00;38;29;07 – 00;38;57;07

Dr. Mona

You’ll see. Or maybe find a, pediatrician who has education. Even if it’s not certification, IBC will see who understands these concepts. That is, trying to make an understanding of protecting the whole relationship. And if breastfeeding is your goal I it kills me when I meet that family. And now it’s three weeks or four weeks of a baby’s life, and no one has talked to them about how, hey, you were giving bottles and I love that this was this was it provided some relief for you at night, right?

 

00;38;57;07 – 00;39;12;01

Dr. Mona

That you maybe were formula feeding at night and then. But did you wake up to pump like you in the first two weeks? We can’t just let that not go because then your body starts to make it stops making milk. Yeah. And, you know, in a very nice way, I’m like, I if this is your goal, I want to support that.

 

00;39;12;01 – 00;39;26;10

Dr. Mona

But we have to understand that you got to wake up and remove it somehow. Yeah, girl. Yeah. Like, if there’s no negotiation in the first few, you know, first few weeks, a few months, like, there has to be removal. And I think people forget that if that’s their goal.

 

00;39;26;13 – 00;39;36;08

Dr. Lauren Hughes

Yes. And and so then I think there is also this like kind of going with like the waking up is that there is such now this push of like sleep through the night self. Yeah.

 

00;39;36;15 – 00;39;37;17

Dr. Mona

Yes, yes.

 

00;39;37;20 – 00;39;57;08

Dr. Lauren Hughes

12 hours by 12 weeks like moms on call like all that stuff. Then people are so focused because are being told sleep is such a critical thing. Which yeah, of course it is. But like a baby’s gonna sleep like they may want, but they’re going to sleep, and and that it be okay. So we’re going to get our six, seven, eight hours.

 

00;39;57;10 – 00;39;59;03

Dr. Lauren Hughes

Honey, you might not be able to go that long.

 

00;39;59;03 – 00;40;02;19

Dr. Mona

And then you may not be like, yes, the mother. Right. Yes. Exactly.

 

00;40;02;21 – 00;40;19;11

Dr. Lauren Hughes

Not be able to hear that. And like having to explain that nuance of like storage capacity and milk removal and like how long you can go in engorgement. Yeah. You get a lot more milk whenever you wait till you’re engorged, but that’s actually longer and and then down regulate your supply and like yeah, it does take a lot of time to explain this stuff.

 

00;40;19;11 – 00;40;25;06

Dr. Lauren Hughes

And so I guess yeah. Doesn’t make it unimportant.

 

00;40;25;08 – 00;40;33;26

Dr. Mona

Now let’s take a quick break to hear from our sponsors who support helps us keep bringing you this show.

 

00;40;33;28 – 00;40;49;17

Dr. Mona

Like I for my I didn’t breastfeed my son, because of a lot of different complications. And for my second, like I said, I did do exclusive pumping. And I am you know, I know this is privilege, but I ended up hiring like, a night doula because my husband was back to work. I had no help at night, so I needed help.

 

00;40;49;17 – 00;41;08;28

Dr. Mona

And I think that’s really reasonable. And yeah, she would help me feed the baby, like feed Vera the bottle. And when she did that, she would wake me up and I would do my pumping because we’re trying to get that schedule. And then there came a time where as Vera got older, I was able to space out a little bit, meaning maybe not three hours before, but I would still set the alarm.

 

00;41;08;28 – 00;41;23;14

Dr. Mona

And that night, the doula would wake me up and make sure that I pumped so that I’m not getting engorged. And then I looked at my supply, make sure I didn’t start tanking. So there’s going to be a little bit of wiggle. But you can’t just not go the whole night. And I mean, I’ve made a mistake.

 

00;41;23;16 – 00;41;24;07

Dr. Lauren Hughes

And go, yeah.

 

00;41;24;13 – 00;41;29;12

Dr. Mona

I’ve made a mistake of not waking up. And then my boobs were like, hey, this is not okay with us.

 

00;41;29;14 – 00;41;47;15

Dr. Lauren Hughes

Oh yeah. So I brought up my twins and I had like the first time that, like, they did a full two hours because, I mean, we’re talking full supply on both sides. And like, I woke up and I was just like, I can’t move. Get me a baby. Like, it’s just like, you’re like, so frozen. You’re like, oh my God, it hurts so much.

 

00;41;47;18 – 00;42;00;09

Dr. Mona

I have a I have a very interesting question because you had twins and I actually don’t know this answer, do you. Did you produce more milk because you had the twins? Like, did you feel like it was adequate or how does that work? I don’t think I understand the yeah.

 

00;42;00;12 – 00;42;19;07

Dr. Lauren Hughes

You know, you make more milk every subsequent pregnancy and so you come down crying. Right. And so I actually, when I was in residency and getting my, like knowing that I was going to be breastfeeding and I rotated with, Doctor Cathy Lieber, who is in Omaha, and she’s a breastfeeding medicine physician, one of the ABM people.

 

00;42;19;09 – 00;42;40;12

Dr. Lauren Hughes

And so we talked about I was pregnant whenever I rotated with her. And so I was like, any tips? And because no, you’re not aren’t going to make a like you don’t automatically produce enough. But she was like, you have to hit the stimulus hard. So I started pumping day one. And that was I pumped a lot.

 

00;42;40;15 – 00;42;54;14

Dr. Lauren Hughes

And, and in addition to direct breastfeeding in order to get my supply up high enough, to maintain. And so, yeah, I mean, I ended up making a hell of a lot more, yeah. Than I did with my oldest.

 

00;42;54;16 – 00;42;58;11

Dr. Mona

Yeah. And at the combination of the twins, but also just the fact that you were it was a second pregnancy.

 

00;42;58;12 – 00;43;00;27

Dr. Lauren Hughes

And, you know, I think kind of all of that.

 

00;43;01;00 – 00;43;01;18

Dr. Mona

Yeah. Interesting.

 

00;43;01;21 – 00;43;09;13

Dr. Lauren Hughes

I love that understanding of, like, what supply and demand looked like. Like what creating look like all that stuff.

 

00;43;09;15 – 00;43;34;24

Dr. Mona

And I think we got through a lot of things. And, you know, one of the other things that I hear a lot of is and you probably give this advice and you mentioned it about triple feeding in general is just not fun. But like if someone is taking their baby to the breast and also doing supplementation, like if that’s happening at the same time, some people are like, okay, Max, out at the breast for 20 minutes, 40 minutes and then go to the like, then supplement.

 

00;43;34;27 – 00;43;41;16

Dr. Mona

What are your thoughts on like that number? Is it more so for you how they’re feeding or what is that like what are your thoughts on that?

 

00;43;41;16 – 00;43;46;28

Dr. Lauren Hughes

For me it’s I’m like, I am restricting you for your mental health. And no. Yes.

 

00;43;47;00 – 00;43;48;29

Dr. Mona

That’s that’s exactly what I’m doing too. I’m scary.

 

00;43;49;00 – 00;43;54;27

Dr. Lauren Hughes

Yeah. Yeah. So I’m like I because I don’t want you to feed for 40 minutes.

 

00;43;54;29 – 00;43;58;05

Dr. Mona

Become, become a like just feeling like your life is feeding, right.

 

00;43;58;05 – 00;44;19;03

Dr. Lauren Hughes

And that’s all you do. And then I also am, like, overnight. We’re not doing the movie. We are getting one bottle ghost with one grown up. You are pumping. We’re all back to the minute. We’re not learning new skills at 2 a.m.. No, but is you well, with that we are going to pump and then during the day when we’re able to focus, then we’re going to go back to the breast.

 

00;44;19;06 – 00;44;26;24

Dr. Lauren Hughes

But I don’t give them a time limit because also that is the dumbest thing of like, well, it’s they didn’t nurse five minutes that they didn’t get milk. Says, oh.

 

00;44;26;27 – 00;44;29;12

Dr. Mona

Yes. Yes. Yeah.

 

00;44;29;18 – 00;44;47;06

Dr. Lauren Hughes

So I don’t give them a time limit and restriction only I say you can nurse, you can do this as many like put baby to the breast once a day, twice a day, ten times a day, however frequently you want to. But you need to remove milk every 3 to 4 hours until we can figure out, like where your supply is, all that stuff.

 

00;44;47;08 – 00;45;01;21

Dr. Lauren Hughes

And then I try to make triple feeding more focused on like, let’s get milk out and keep baby comfortable at the breast instead of working on effective transfer of milk while we’re getting baby gained and stronger and bigger fat pads in their cheeks and all that stuff.

 

00;45;01;24 – 00;45;21;04

Dr. Mona

I love that. And I, you know, again, I appreciate you so much and I’m so happy we could chat about this topic because of how you are doing. What I think everyone should do is preserving the mental health and the awareness of the entire mom baby dyad, right? I mean, I agree, I mean, sleep is valuable. And again, we know that we’re not going to get 12 hours sleep from the beginning.

 

00;45;21;04 – 00;45;35;09

Dr. Mona

But, you know, the nighttime prioritizing that. And I think that’s so healthy. I mean, this is how we preserve and prolong, I think, the breastfeeding journey. Right? If we’re telling moms go at it and you’re going to pump and yeah, you’re going to do this and this is what you have to do, and you’re a terrible mother.

 

00;45;35;09 – 00;45;45;13

Dr. Mona

If you don’t do it, it’s going to be a higher risk of failure or let’s not use that term, a higher risk of stopping, you know, and maybe prematurely than what you would have wanted to, you know.

 

00;45;45;15 – 00;45;45;24

Dr. Lauren Hughes

Right.

 

00;45;46;02 – 00;46;01;22

Dr. Mona

And I think that’s really hard. I have time. One more question for you is you’ve mentioned a lot of these outdated advice and unhelpful things, but what would be any other outdated or unhelpful feeding myth that you wish more pediatricians and parents would finally let go of when it comes to breastfeeding or feeding newborns in general.

 

00;46;01;25 – 00;46;05;09

Dr. Lauren Hughes

Your kid is not going to sleep longer by giving them a bottle formula before bed.

 

00;46;05;12 – 00;46;06;01

Dr. Mona

I love that.

 

00;46;06;01 – 00;46;07;06

Dr. Lauren Hughes

I’m so sorry.

 

00;46;07;08 – 00;46;08;27

Dr. Mona

Or or putting cereal inside.

 

00;46;08;27 – 00;46;19;15

Dr. Lauren Hughes

Yeah. You’re not. What was there was a study. I think it was like in 2018 that they compared. And, kids who got formula slept in 24 hours, eight minutes longer.

 

00;46;19;17 – 00;46;21;15

Dr. Mona

Whew. Oh, wow.

 

00;46;21;17 – 00;46;32;12

Dr. Lauren Hughes

Yeah. Yeah. I really wish people would stop saying give a bottle of formula. Yeah, rice cereal before bed to get them to sleep through the night. That ain’t that ain’t facts.

 

00;46;32;15 – 00;46;51;18

Dr. Mona

And, you know, it’s it’s interesting because I think a lot of that comes from older generation comments like, I hear a lot of my, my generation like, you know who I’m talking to? They’re like, oh, my mom, grandma said this and I’m like, okay, fine, I’ll do that. So maybe they did that in the past. But as everyone listening knows, just because things happened in the past doesn’t mean that it makes sense in the present.

 

00;46;51;21 – 00;47;07;22

Dr. Mona

But I agree, and I think that also can lend to that sort of. Well, then. Yeah, the doctor’s telling me to supplement and then I’m just going to do that. I forget to pump my milk tanked. Why did my milk tank? Well, your milk tank, because we didn’t remove it. So there’s a cyclical reason for all of this.

 

00;47;07;25 – 00;47;19;17

Dr. Mona

This is so great. I, like I said, I know we could chat for so much longer, but I, I think we go through a lot of information, and I want to know, you know, a final, uplifting message for everyone tuning in today. What would that be for? For them.

 

00;47;19;20 – 00;47;38;17

Dr. Lauren Hughes

Quality as a parent is not measured in ounces of breast milk. You are not more valuable as a parent because you breastfed. You are not less valuable because you formula fed vice versa. That that has nothing to do with your ability to parent.

 

00;47;38;19 – 00;47;53;19

Dr. Mona

Yeah. Lauren, I love you more after meeting you. And I mean again, now we’re besties. Okay, we have shirts. Next time we see each other, we’re going to. We’re going to hang out and wear our shirts. And I know it’s going to happen. You know, there’s a lot of creators online that I just feel so connected to online.

 

00;47;53;19 – 00;48;10;15

Dr. Mona

And I’m like, dang, I, I feel like I know them and when I meet them, it’s going to be like that. I met I met Anita Patel, who is who’s an ICU, ICU. I met, Super Play fourth, who’s a pediatrician mom at a conference, last year. And it just felt like these are friends that I’ve had forever.

 

00;48;10;15 – 00;48;23;06

Dr. Mona

So I cannot wait for that day. But for anyone who’s not familiar, please let us know where we can stay in touch. Any of your resources you have, whether it’s for breastfeeding or not. And they can just go to follow along with all of the amazing content you have.

 

00;48;23;08 – 00;48;42;13

Dr. Lauren Hughes

It’s my website, doctor Lauren hughes.com. I have like my top five tips for latching a newborn that’s entirely free. I have video and written instructions of like my favorite thing, which is the flip technique and like tell me to tell me which. I swear with my lactation visits that would prevent 90% of them is just those positioning things, have like a prenatal lactation guide.

 

00;48;42;13 – 00;49;01;23

Dr. Lauren Hughes

And where I go through and I talk about all these things, I have it all on my Instagram, which is at bloom DPC, though potentially could be changing to at doctor Lauren Hughes. So that TBD, I’m waiting on us to approve that change. Because it’s I don’t know, it’s I’m changing that. But anyway, yeah, those are the places you can find all that information.

 

00;49;01;25 – 00;49;02;26

Dr. Mona

And I.

 

00;49;02;29 – 00;49;03;24

Dr. Lauren Hughes

Learn more.

 

00;49;03;26 – 00;49;22;27

Dr. Mona

I love it, and this episode is going to be going live in August, which is Breast World Breastfeeding Week. So if your handle changes, we’ll make sure to make sure that’s updated for everyone so that they can find you. Because I want everyone to find you. Obviously, Doctor Lauren is not just talking about breastfeeding on her page. She talks about everything, whether it’s current events, whether it’s, you know, tantrums, everything she does.

 

00;49;22;27 – 00;49;39;19

Dr. Mona

Essentially what I do and in a great way. And I just love having you online. I love that you’re in my online community. I love that I get to consume your content and vice versa. It’s just it has felt like a very fun relationship knowing you online. And so thank you for joining me today.

 

00;49;39;22 – 00;49;42;27

Dr. Lauren Hughes

Thank you for having me.

 

00;49;43;00 – 00;50;03;11

Dr. Mona

I love talking to Lauren. I feel like when I finally meet her in real life, it’s going to be this amazing connection. And truth be told, I have a foul mouth. I just don’t use it as much as she does. And she really reined it in on the conversation today. So I’m really proud of her. And I hope if you watch this on YouTube that you saw our amazing salon AF shirts.

 

00;50;03;13 – 00;50;20;15

Dr. Mona

Thank you so much for listening to this conversation. I hope it brought you clarity, confidence, or maybe just that sense of oh, it’s just not me. If you’re a parent, here’s a reminder you should be asking questions. If something a pediatrician says doesn’t sit right, especially when it comes to feeding, because that’s what we’re talking about here. Speak up.

 

00;50;20;17 – 00;50;42;02

Dr. Mona

You deserve care that supports your goals. In my current office that I’m practicing at the time of this recording, I don’t have the ability to offer in-person lactation assessments due to time, and honestly, it’s a damn shame every breastfeeding parent should have access to an Ivy seal. See who supports their goals, whether that looks like nursing, pumping, combo feeding, or supplementing.

 

00;50;42;05 – 00;51;11;01

Dr. Mona

In my opinion, every major pediatric office should have an IBC link or click on staff to help parents. That’s why I always refer out, because no one should have to navigate feeding alone. Your pediatrician should be part of the team, not the whole team. And if this episode was helpful, share it with someone you love, posted to your stories, Facebook groups wherever you can, and tag us at the Peds Doc Talk podcast and at bloom DPC and let us know your take.

 

00;51;11;03 – 00;51;21;25

Dr. Mona

And don’t forget to subscribe and download those downloads. Help the show continue to grow and keep us in the top 20 parenting podcasts in the US. Thanks for being here and chat with you all next time.