May is Mental Health Awareness Month, and just as much as we need to focus on maternal mental health, we also need to recognize that dads and non-birthing partners also can struggle postpartum as well. 7% and 9% of new fathers develop postpartum depression. I invited my husband back on the show to chat about postpartum mental health and mental health concerns in general in men.

We discuss:

• Why men and women can struggle with their mental health postpartum
• Why men don’t talk about their mental health struggles or seek help as much as women may
• The cultural barriers that exist that normalize seeking mental health help
• How we’re raising our kids to undo this cycle of mental health stigma
• How consistent therapy has helped my husband and myself

 

For more on postpartum mental health for all caregivers, visit this resource. If you are dealing with postpartum mental health concerns and need help, visit Postpartum Support International.

 

We love the sponsors that make this show possible! You can always find all the special deals and codes for all our current sponsors on the PedsDocTalk Podcast Sponsors page of the website.

00:00:01:04 – 00:00:24:15
Gaurav
The archetype is that we’re supposed to be this sort of, you know, strong, armored person who feels nothing and everything bounces off of us, and we’re supposed to just put our head down and continue to grind forward, right? That is definitely ingrained in you from everything that you consume, right? From movies to TV to commercials to everything, every voice you’ve ever heard, every hero that you ever had.

00:00:24:18 – 00:00:30:25
Gaurav
Right. Your superheroes. There were all male figures that were strong, that nothing could touch them. Nothing could penetrate them.

00:00:30:27 – 00:00:49:21
Dr. Mona
Hello PedsDocTalk podcast listeners, I’m Doctor Mona, thank you so much for being here. I know the juggle is real as parents, and even if you are not a parent and I so appreciate you taking time out of your day to tune into these awesome conversations I get to have about child health, development, parenting, and parental mental health.

00:00:49:24 – 00:01:19:23
Dr. Mona
This show is a top parenting podcast in the United States, so continue leading those reviews and update those reviews and ratings and share the show with whoever has a child, was a child, or wants to learn about how to better connect with children in their life and better connect with themselves as parents and individuals. Today’s guest is a returning guest, my husband Gaurav, who joins me to talk about post partum mental health and also how men struggle with their mental health and not just females.

00:01:19:25 – 00:01:38:03
Dr. Mona
We have felt that the online world and a lot of the narrative is around maternal mental health, and even that is still taboo. So you bring in men to the picture, and men who may struggle with depression, anxiety, trauma and how they may not feel like they need to get help or they actually seek help because of the stigma.

00:01:38:05 – 00:02:03:03
Dr. Mona
So we’re talking about postpartum mental health in females, and if they have male partners as well, because often men are not discussed in this equation. One out of ten men experience postpartum depression or anxiety. And my husband and I want to bring in a personal conversation to hopefully normalize this experience and destigmatize mental health concerns. Whether you are male or female, whether you’re a parent or not.

00:02:03:05 – 00:02:13:19
Dr. Mona
Let’s get to the conversation. Hey, welcome back to the podcast episode number four together. How are you doing?

00:02:13:22 – 00:02:18:28
Gaurav
This is exciting. I’m glad to be back by popular demand, it seems. Yes.

00:02:19:00 – 00:02:41:26
Dr. Mona
We’ve been getting a lot of reviews about the show and one of the biggest reviews was we love hearing Doctor Gaurav come on, even though we’re not talking about doctor related things, but we’re talking about, you know, parenting, marriage. Again, this is episode number four together. So we’ve done one about parenting and marriage. Obviously after having kids, we’ve done one on repenting ourselves as we parent.

00:02:41:26 – 00:03:04:11
Dr. Mona
Ryan, we didn’t have here at the point of that recording. And then we did one most recently at the end of 2023 about how we as a generation are being harder on ourselves as parents than we need to be. And this is episode number four together, really diving into postpartum mental health. And normalizing destigmatizing that men two, dads two can struggle postpartum.

00:03:04:11 – 00:03:08:28
Dr. Mona
So I’m really happy that you can join me for this. What I think is a really important conversation.

00:03:09:00 – 00:03:37:07
Gaurav
No, you are so right in that it’s such an important discussion point and one that I feel, unfortunately probably doesn’t get spoken about enough or often enough. And so I’m really excited to share my own experience, my own insights, my own learning, so that if there are any dads out there that are listening or their spouses that they can, refer to this episode and maybe find a path to healing and help in their own journey as a parent.

00:03:37:09 – 00:03:38:20
Gaurav
So I’m really excited.

00:03:38:22 – 00:03:57:05
Dr. Mona
Yeah. And I know everyone listening myself and my husband are not therapists, so we’re not speaking from the lens of a therapist, nor will we ever say that we are one. But we have both gone through the therapy journey. We both have had some insight into our own mental health experiences. So we’re speaking more so from personal experience.

00:03:57:05 – 00:04:19:25
Dr. Mona
You know, being two physicians married, having gone through traumatic births, even just life, you know, we are four and a half years out from a traumatic birth from our son, but we still can struggle, you know, emotionally. And so, again, disclaimer that we’re not therapists and we’re not speaking to that. Eventually, my hope is to have a therapist come on and talk about dads non birthing partners and the mental health struggles.

00:04:20:01 – 00:04:41:18
Dr. Mona
But this is just personal conversation. Like me and my husband have after the kids go to bed. We are recording this after the children have gone to bed. So I am just excited to, you know, chat with him. And my first question for you is, in your opinion, why do you think there’s a huge mental health struggle postpartum for women and also men?

00:04:41:21 – 00:04:51:12
Dr. Mona
Because I think, like we’ve talked about, the focus tends to be on maternal mental health. But why do you think there is such a shift here? And maybe even throwing in your personal experience?

00:04:51:15 – 00:05:15:16
Gaurav
Yeah, it’s a great question. I think that we spend so much time, like you said, focusing on moms, health and the baby’s health. And everyone is super excited for good reason, too, right? It’s an exciting time, but it’s also a very stressful time as well as you and I can both attest to. And I think that society at large has placed a lot of the burden.

00:05:15:18 – 00:05:44:15
Gaurav
Unfortunately, on the mom, to not only be the one who, you know, birthed the child, but to be there right in the beginning for that bond, that connection, that skin to skin. Right. It happens immediately for the mom first and, you know, the dads are kind of left waiting for their turn. And, you know, speaking from my own experience, the birth of our son was quite traumatic.

00:05:44:15 – 00:06:07:13
Gaurav
Like I’m sure every one of your guests knows about. And I think that in the drama of everything that was going on, that there was no time to focus on my mental health or what was going on in my own head or how I was, I was dealing with the adversity that was in front of me. I was too busy trying to check in on you and trying to check in on Ryan and running back and forth from one ICU to the next.

00:06:07:15 – 00:06:27:16
Gaurav
Yeah, just trying to see if I could be of any assistance or any help or try to figure out what was going on. Now, I’m not saying that everyone out there who’s listening is going to have a traumatic delivery. I hope that no one has a traumatic delivery out there but a society at large. I think that, you know, the paternal side of things just kind of gets left to the wayside.

00:06:27:18 – 00:06:51:00
Gaurav
We’re kind of expected to be the stronger one, the ones that go back to work sooner, the ones that are there to kind of keep the foundation of the home together. And I think that it’s important to have a conversation around, well, you know, parenting is a two person job in most cases. And if you do have a significant other, you know, this is a brand new experience for them.

00:06:51:00 – 00:07:14:26
Gaurav
Two yeah. And it’s good to ask questions and check in from time to time. Hey, dad, how are you doing? How are you handling this new routine? How are you handling the lack of sleep or the pressure to go back to work and provide, or just not knowing what to do and when to, you know, chime in and when to realize when you need to back off.

00:07:14:29 – 00:07:30:00
Gaurav
I think that a lot of guys out there are just waiting for them to be told what to do when the new baby arrives, like, just tell me where I need to go, tell me what I need to pick up, what do I need to hear from the store? And I think it’s so much more complex than that.

00:07:30:02 – 00:07:56:19
Gaurav
I think that lives are transforming as we’re talking it, moment by moment, and I think that a lot of men would appreciate a check in from time to time mentally to see how they’re adjusting to this new reality. And I think just unfortunately, too much attention is placed on the mom and the child. And unfortunately, dads just are expected to just keep that sign of, you know, that performer.

00:07:56:21 – 00:07:57:23
Dr. Mona
Yeah.

00:07:57:26 – 00:08:30:10
Gaurav
And be the strong ones through this process. But if anything that I’ve learned through having two children is that it can be just as dramatic and traumatic for me as a male as it can be for you being the mother and the one who’s physically giving birth to our child. And all the issues that you went through and you can attest to this, it was very mentally difficult for me to be present during those moments when we didn’t know what was happening.

00:08:30:12 – 00:08:47:04
Gaurav
And in the days after that, I mean, you talk about the stress of the delivery of our son two months before the pandemic began. And I’m an E.R. doctor who has to go to work while everyone else is, you know, told to stay home.

00:08:47:06 – 00:09:07:22
Dr. Mona
Well, also, I mean, also, you had to. I mean, I don’t know if people really realize this. You didn’t. You obviously, you don’t get paternity leave. We already know that maternity leave in the United States, for many of us is, you know, not a good situation, but you basically had to find people to cover your shifts. When I was in the hospital, you know, with Ryan and then also with Vera because I had postpartum complications with her, so, let alone the pandemic.

00:09:07:22 – 00:09:38:24
Dr. Mona
But you had to go back into a stressful job. And I think anyone, whether you’re a male or female, going back to a stressful job when you have a newborn and especially you add on layers of trauma if there is one. But regardless if there’s birth trauma or not, having to go back so soon to a workplace, especially a stressful one where there’s no flexibility when you have sleep deprivation, when you have to adjust to a new life with a new being to take care of, I think is just a recipe of a mental health hit.

00:09:38:27 – 00:09:54:22
Dr. Mona
I don’t know if you felt that, and you know, that balance of having to experience what we did and then all of a sudden have to go back into a job and, you know, go to work and try to focus there. Do you think that had an impact on your mental health at all? Regardless of the pandemic alone?

00:09:54:25 – 00:10:22:27
Gaurav
Immensely. And, you know, like you said, there is really no such thing as paternity leave, at least in medicine, that I could find, right? Sure, I could not go to work, but I’m also then not getting paid as well. So lucky enough for me, I had a supportive boss who was to find coverage for me, but if I remember correctly, like I think I only requested two weeks off.

00:10:23:03 – 00:10:23:27
Dr. Mona
Yeah.

00:10:24:00 – 00:10:47:06
Gaurav
The birth of our son. And then it was right back to work. Now I had that extended because of the circumstances that we were going through, but I have colleagues who just took a week off and then we’re back at work. So there’s that pressure that well, if you’re not showing up for work, you’re not getting paid and bills still have to be paid and all that kind of stuff.

00:10:47:08 – 00:11:14:12
Gaurav
And then you throw in the layer of the stressful nature of the job in and of itself. And of course, it’s a recipe for disaster. And I’ll tell you a funny story. I think it was just a little bit after the pandemic began, and I was working in the hospital, and you and Ryan were at home, and I was just sitting there kind of really stressed out and anxious about just Covid in general, and didn’t know what Covid was really, and was afraid to get it and bring it home.

00:11:14:14 – 00:11:37:24
Gaurav
And my colleague who was sitting next to me could tell that I was not like mentally doing so well. And it’s a funny story in that she physically took her prescription pad out and wrote me a script for Lexapro, for which if those of you listening don’t know, is an antidepressant, and he was like, here, take these, these will be temporary.

00:11:37:26 – 00:11:50:12
Dr. Mona
Like like like sugar, like here. Like throwing it out like candy. Because, I mean, of how much you were everyone was going through, I mean, the pandemic, the amount of anxiety and, you know, especially being a healthcare worker and even me, if you’re not, it was so, so high.

00:11:50:14 – 00:11:52:29
Gaurav
Right? It was like giving a kid a bag of Skittles and being like.

00:11:53:03 – 00:12:00:16
Dr. Mona
Oh yeah, I’m fine. Yeah, everyone needs this. We all need some Lexapro. Basically in the water supply right now because of the anxiety with the pandemic.

00:12:00:18 – 00:12:22:16
Gaurav
Yeah. And at the time, I had not yet begun my healing journey from all the, the trauma yet. So I was just kind of taken aback. I was like, I don’t need this. What are you talking about? I’m fine. When in reality, looking back, I was anything but fine and I could have used more support in that period.

00:12:22:18 – 00:12:55:23
Gaurav
From my work, from a licensed therapist that, you know, if I had one. But it took going through that experience back to back, right? Yeah. For me to realize that, okay, there’s some issues that are underlying here that we need to bring to the surface and we need to start talking about them and I did it for a few months here and there, meaning I found a therapist, I did some sessions with them, didn’t really feel like I was getting much out of it, so I kind of did.

00:12:55:23 – 00:13:17:21
Gaurav
What normally happens is I stopped going after a little bit. And so it was kind of on and off there for a couple of years. And lo and behold the universe decided that, you know what was trauma number one Covid not enough. I’m going to throw this and A2A third time and see if you finally get the message that I’m trying to say.

00:13:17:23 – 00:13:21:12
Dr. Mona
And so with Vera’s delivery.

00:13:21:15 – 00:13:48:25
Gaurav
Yeah. As crazy as Ryan’s delivery was for you to get sick again with, Vera was just like, how could this possibly happen twice? Yeah, like, what is going on? What is the universe trying to tell me? And I think what the universe was trying to tell me this whole time was that, okay, you need to figure out and you need to get some help on how you’re going to be able to manage these very traumatic events or any type of adversity in your life moving forward.

00:13:48:27 – 00:14:09:22
Gaurav
And the more and more you tried to avoid doing that work, the more and more I’m going to send messages your way. And so it wasn’t until after Vera where I really just said to myself, okay, I need to really sit down and do this and be consistent. And yeah, part of that is finding a therapist who, you know, fits.

00:14:09:22 – 00:14:28:11
Gaurav
It’s kind of like dating, you know, you have to go through a few until you find the right one. And I’m happy and I’m grateful for the the therapist that I now have who I feel like is the perfect match for me and my personality and and the way that I process things. But it wasn’t a straight line to get there.

00:14:28:14 – 00:14:43:11
Gaurav
There were many bumps in the road. There were questions, there were fear, there was the stigma behind having a therapist. And what if my parents found out? Or what if I told my friends, would they make fun of me? Or.

00:14:43:14 – 00:14:45:18
Dr. Mona
Well, now a lot of people are, you know.

00:14:45:20 – 00:14:47:08
Gaurav
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:14:47:11 – 00:15:04:25
Dr. Mona
I’m so happy that we’re having this conversation to, again, talk about why this is important to talk about. I mean, we shove it down when in reality we need to really bring it to the surface and say, hey, we struggle men, women, whoever, status professionals, it doesn’t matter. Everyone struggles with their mental health at some point and needs our help.

00:15:04:25 – 00:15:06:24
Dr. Mona
I agree.

00:15:06:27 – 00:15:32:16
Gaurav
Yeah, everyone will be hit with a tidal wave from time to time, and not everyone is equipped with the resources to effectively handle those tidal waves in a positive way, in a healthy way. And so recognizing that you need that help is the first step. And that was the hard one for me, because I thought that I had everything in life.

00:15:32:16 – 00:15:43:06
Gaurav
I thought I had checked off every box that I was supposed to check off in my life, and the children were like the final piece of the puzzle. And, well.

00:15:43:06 – 00:16:00:19
Dr. Mona
Do you think that that checkbox mentality that you just mentioned, right. The growing up with that sort of, again, mean you were both Indian-American? We both were raised in that checkbox culture, right? You go, you get an education, you become something professional, whether it’s a doctor or whatever, but something that’s going to be secure, right? Like a secure job was ingrained in us.

00:16:00:27 – 00:16:23:05
Dr. Mona
And then you get married and then you have a child, and then do you think that that raising with that checkbox mentality is what opened up this can of worms when things didn’t go according to plan? Or why do you think all this sort of anxiety or depression came to the surface after Ryan’s delivery? And also, you know, through the pandemic and my complications during various birth?

00:16:23:07 – 00:16:53:18
Gaurav
Well, I think it’s a multitude of factors. I think it was primarily the childhood environment in which I grew up. And, yes, there was this kind of check box mentality. And I think that all, you know, first generation Indian Americans can relate to that or understand what we’re talking about when we talk about that. But I grew up in a very emotionally unsafe home, a very chaotic home, home where there wasn’t much attunement between caregivers and the children.

00:16:53:21 – 00:17:37:03
Gaurav
And so that left me very ill prepared to deal with the resiliency needed to be an effective and healthy adult. Yeah, I didn’t get any of that modeling as a child. All I knew as a child was dysfunctional relationships all around me, including my primary relationship, which was with my mother. And so it was the combination of, yes, that I’m just checking off these boxes, but it was also the the key was, was that I was never modeled how to express my emotions, how to use resources to deal with adverse events in my life.

00:17:37:06 – 00:17:57:10
Gaurav
And so up until the point of Ryan’s delivery, I had never really gone through anything really traumatic. You know, going through med school and residency, it’s kind of like everything is handed out to you on a silver platter. Just do this, do this, do this. Here’s your degree, here’s your job done. You’re done with. You’re set for life.

00:17:57:12 – 00:17:59:09
Gaurav
And so.

00:17:59:12 – 00:18:23:12
Dr. Mona
Well, I mean, even so in the medical training, right? Like there was no room for feelings even in our training. Right. Like the culture of, hey, even if you’re not feeling well, whether physically or mentally you show up for work, you work 80 hours a week. I mean, the whole culture behind medical training also was almost like what you’re talking about emotionally unavailable, you know, preceptors and that and that there was just no room for being vulnerable or showing vulnerability.

00:18:23:19 – 00:18:39:18
Dr. Mona
I mean, you were not allowed to call out. You were not allowed to feel you had to work, you had to work, you had to work. And so that catches up to you, especially when you become a parent. Right? I mean, you realize that, hey, there’s going to be a lot of unpredictability. And for me, you know, I struggled with that lack of control.

00:18:39:18 – 00:19:06:08
Dr. Mona
You know, I had a lot of control tendencies as me. You both know very well. It’s something that I’m still working on. And it took me becoming a mother and having gone through the stuff we did with Ryan and, postpartum, but also just being a mom to realize I don’t like this obsession with control and how it’s shown up in my relationship with you, how it’s showing up in my relationship with the children, and also how it shows up in the relationship with myself.

00:19:06:11 – 00:19:25:11
Dr. Mona
And so, you know, it’s like almost like it was perfectly programed from childhood. And then you go into these jobs that really encourage you to just toe the company line and really not feel your feelings, because doctors can’t feel doctors are not human. They don’t call out for work, they don’t have mental health issues. But we all do.

00:19:25:13 – 00:19:43:27
Dr. Mona
I mean, every human being on this planet, like we said, can struggle from time to time. Especially you know, we we’ve been through it. I mean, for a trauma, pandemic, IVF, I mean, all of these things. And like I said already, for my listeners, you may not even have to go through trauma to be struggling with mental health.

00:19:44:00 – 00:20:01:20
Dr. Mona
It’s just it’s there. And when we start to say, oh, well, you got to be tough and it doesn’t matter, you got to get through it. And that’s when you just bottle it up and don’t actually learn to process it like you were saying. Like you don’t actually learn to actually say, hey, I actually need more. I need to see someone that’s not my partner.

00:20:01:20 – 00:20:15:12
Dr. Mona
That’s not a friend that’s trained in this area. To really get to the root of why I’m feeling this way, which I don’t think a lot of people do because of stigma time. And I, you know, I really think it’s stigma of mental health.

00:20:15:14 – 00:20:40:06
Gaurav
No, I would completely agree. And, you know, going back to the point you made about medicine and you know, the training that we go through, it’s a absolutely traumatic experience. Yeah. I mean, we’re groomed from day one to just be subservient and to keep our head down and to just continue to work and work as hard as you can.

00:20:40:08 – 00:21:07:16
Gaurav
Let people demean you, let people talk ill of you, and you’re supposed to keep your chin up through it. All right? Yeah, yeah. And if you blink or if you, you know, quiver at all, that’s seen as an instantaneous weakness. And so I’m glad that things have started to get better with the newer generations of physicians and the importance and the attention that’s being placed on wellness.

00:21:07:18 – 00:21:10:13
Gaurav
But those things didn’t exist when you and I were in training at all.

00:21:10:14 – 00:21:12:01
Dr. Mona
Yeah, absolutely.

00:21:12:03 – 00:21:35:25
Gaurav
And it just exacerbates a lot of the struggles that we deal with on a daily basis. I mean, we’re expected to deal and help heal other sick people when no one’s ever asked us. Well, hey, how are you doing? Are you struggling at all? Like, I know you help all these people all day long, but what about your own situation in your own mental space?

00:21:35:28 – 00:21:59:10
Gaurav
Are you doing fine? And I think that that’s. It’s just like society has said that, you know, physicians are just, like you said, not supposed to feel they’re robots. They’re supposed to go out there and work and take care of other at any time of day, on holidays, on weekends and all that stuff. So it definitely builds over time.

00:21:59:12 – 00:22:23:14
Gaurav
And that, plus the stress and the difficulty of becoming a new parent, while working in the medical field, it’s just added a whole nother layer. And that’s when, you know, I decided for myself that this was the time that I needed to seek some help and ask for help.

00:22:23:16 – 00:22:45:16
Dr. Mona
Now let’s take a break to hear from our sponsors. I’m curious in your perspective, not including trauma, what about parenthood opened up that realization for you? Was there something in the parenting journey that said, you know what? I’m not okay with X, Y, and Z in terms of mental health? Or was it like we talked about just kind of a progression of things?

00:22:45:18 – 00:23:22:29
Gaurav
I think it was. And I tell this to my therapist a lot, is that when I’m interacting with Ryan or even fear of but more so, Ryan, because he’s a boy, I see a lot of my own childhood in him. When I’m around him, and I could see how happy and how free spirited he is and how it was such a stark contrast to how I remember my own self at his age, where I was kind of like this kid in a corner who was too afraid to ever say anything or raised his hand, or just you know, I always felt like I wanted to hide.

00:23:22:29 – 00:24:07:03
Gaurav
I wanted to get away. I wanted to disappear from the situation. And so becoming a parent and then understanding that what I do more so than what I say, my actions are going to have a huge impact on this child’s future. Just like my experience with my parents had a huge impact on my future, and I didn’t want my own unfortunate circumstances and upbringing let that seep into the way that I parent my son, because I knew that I had two choices.

00:24:07:03 – 00:24:26:19
Gaurav
I could either continue the generational trauma that I’m sure had been passed down from one generation to the next. Or I could say, you know what? It’s going to stop here. It’s going to stop with me. And that was a conscious decision that I made. And it took a lot of awareness and it took a lot of work.

00:24:26:21 – 00:24:51:23
Gaurav
But I decided that, no, it’s going to stop here. It stops with this generation. Like, I can’t go back in time and change my childhood, but I can have a huge impact on my son and my daughter, and if I could do that for them, then I can make peace with what happened to me as a kid.

00:24:51:26 – 00:25:14:03
Dr. Mona
Yeah, absolutely. You know, for me, after Ryan’s delivery, I saw a therapist intermittently. We both did. Right. When we saw a therapist together, we saw a therapist individually. And then the pandemic hit, and we just kind of let that fade, right. And for me, I will say, honestly, talking about the birth trauma on my Instagram and also on my podcast, I have many episodes.

00:25:14:03 – 00:25:38:22
Dr. Mona
If you have not listened to that about the grief and about the trauma really did help me acutely. Like even now in therapy, I talk to my therapist and it’s like the birth trauma is not even the focus point of our trauma therapy. It’s all the other little things. Well, not so seemingly little things in my life that have caused trauma and caused me to be the way that I am, that I want to sort of undo, you know, in my childhood and college, high school.

00:25:38:22 – 00:26:02:02
Dr. Mona
But I will say that speaking about it, whether it was to my friends, whether it was on a larger platform, that vulnerability that I had was so helpful to me. And I do believe that there’s strength or vulnerability. I use that phrase all the time. Why do you think you had a harder time doing that? Do you think it was because of just how you were raised to not express your feelings?

00:26:02:02 – 00:26:19:15
Dr. Mona
Or do you think that the fact that you were a man also played a role in why you weren’t able to talk about your mental health and actually get help? Until I would say even two years ago, that you were like, no, I got to do something and you actually have consistently seen somebody. What do you think that the reason was?

00:26:19:17 – 00:26:43:01
Gaurav
The answer says multifactorial. And the two that you presented are a major part of it. So we’ll talk about the first one. Right. Just being a male in our society, the archetype is that we’re supposed to be this sort of, you know, strong armored person who feels nothing and everything bounces off of us, and we’re supposed to just put our head down and continue to grind forward.

00:26:43:01 – 00:27:05:27
Gaurav
Right? That is definitely ingrained in you from everything that you consume, right? For movies to TV to commercials to everything, every voice you’ve ever heard, every hero that you ever had, right? Your superheroes. There were all male figures that were strong, that nothing could touch them, nothing could penetrate them. So you have that growing up, right? So that’s feeding into your brain, growing up.

00:27:06:00 – 00:27:32:21
Gaurav
And then you throw into the fact that from a cultural standpoint, again, feelings and emotions and all that stuff are put aside, right? Yeah. For the sake of safety and security of the family, like we don’t have the time to be with our feelings. We don’t have the luxury to be with our feelings. Like we got to work, like we got to make something of ourselves.

00:27:32:25 – 00:27:33:09
Dr. Mona
Yeah.

00:27:33:09 – 00:28:12:12
Gaurav
And there are certain qualities about being raised as a South Asian immigrant that I think are really, really helpful, and have been helpful to you. And I don’t get me wrong, but with those positive things that our parents instilled in us, something had to give. Right? And so what had to give was that emotional vulnerability. Right? So the thought that you are not allowed to cry, that crying is a sign of weakness, that complaining is a sign of weakness, that you’re not doing your best is some sort of sign of weakness.

00:28:12:15 – 00:28:42:22
Gaurav
And that puts so much pressure on each one of us to continuously strive to, you know, make our parents proud of us, that we do things that are oftentimes out of character to our true identity. And then when you finally reach that quote unquote, you know, totem pole of the top of the totem pole, or you reach the top of the staircase that you were told to reach and it’s not what you expected.

00:28:42:23 – 00:29:07:27
Gaurav
You’re left with all these questions as to like, wow, did I really do all of that for me? Or was it for what X, Y, and Z expected of me? And if that’s the case, well, I can’t talk about it because I’m a man and I just have to go to work and bring home a paycheck and be the strong one and be the tough one.

00:29:07:29 – 00:29:22:11
Gaurav
And I experience it all the time. There’s multiple males in my life that it’s very difficult to have meaningful, deep conversations with. I think that it’s just that.

00:29:22:14 – 00:29:50:27
Dr. Mona
And that’s hard because I know you’re so deep now. I mean, you have really become like this amazing person to talk to a lot about this stuff, which I’m so grateful again that you’re on the show. But we have these kind of conversations off the record, too, meaning off of a podcast. And I’m grateful and I’ve talked to you about that, that for me as a female, I do have females that I can really have these deep, like I’m not feeling this, you know, so great or I’m feeling anxious or I’m feeling a little sad and lonely and you don’t have that.

00:29:50:27 – 00:30:08:28
Dr. Mona
And yeah, I’m I’m glad you’re bringing that up because it’s important to just talk about real things and not just, well, what paint are you putting in your house or what did you do to redo the basement or what car did you get? I mean, that’s all superficial stuff. We need to have real, meaningful conversations with the people that mean a lot in our lives.

00:30:08:28 – 00:30:13:12
Dr. Mona
And when you can’t have that, it can feel very lonely.

00:30:13:15 – 00:30:49:10
Gaurav
It can feel very lonely. And that’s when you have to start to relook at the people that are in your circle. And reevaluate your relationships and see that some people are able to go there to that next level, and some people just will not ever be able to go there. And for me, that’s been okay, that I have been able to find those people now, like, I have a core group of male figures in my life that I know that when I need to talk and when I mean talk, talk, I can go to those people.

00:30:49:13 – 00:31:17:21
Gaurav
But yeah, there are certain guys that will just not be able to have that capability and that’s okay. But for me, like you said, I’m kind of over talking about these superficial topics and things that really don’t matter in my life, which I thought mattered in a previous life, but really don’t matter to me that much anymore. And I think there needs to be a balance, right?

00:31:17:21 – 00:31:20:03
Gaurav
It can’t just all be like deep all the time.

00:31:20:04 – 00:31:30:14
Dr. Mona
Oh yes, of course you need. Absolutely like you need, you need that. Hey, let’s have a girl time. But you know what? I also really need this. Yeah. Of course. Yeah, I need that. I agree, even on social I need the balance there too.

00:31:30:17 – 00:31:55:12
Gaurav
Right. You need a balance. And life is important in every aspect of your life, right? You can’t go too far on one end of the spectrum of anything, or on the other end of the spectrum on anything, either. You always got to find that sort of middle ground. And so, at this point in my life, I feel really good that I have a few close friends that I can go to when I do need those reflective, deep moments.

00:31:55:12 – 00:32:14:20
Gaurav
And I also have a couple of guys that I know when I just need a laugh, or to just throw off the sarcastic joke that, yeah, this is where I’m going for that. And I think that comes with just age, maturity, and for me just comes with all those experiences that you and I went through, those traumatic experiences with the delivery of our kids.

00:32:14:22 – 00:32:36:22
Gaurav
So, it’s just about reevaluating your friendships and understanding that there are people that are out there that you can go to that next level with. You just may need to be proactive and go out and find those people. They may not be in your college group of friends that you grew up with, right? Or your high.

00:32:36:22 – 00:32:54:17
Dr. Mona
I mean, for you, it’s our neighbor, right? We moved into this house two years ago, and sometimes when you run into our neighbor, you’re out there for like an hour and a half and it’s getting dark and I’m like, where did he go? I mean, you know, you run into you run into a pat on the, you know, on the street and you’re just like, I’m like, he’s like, yeah, I just got into a really deep conversation.

00:32:54:17 – 00:33:16:12
Dr. Mona
But I love that for you. Like, I love that you get that and that like you said, you get that from him. But you also get the hey man, let’s watch basketball. Or it’s not just deep feelings, it’s also fun stuff. And that’s I think any healthy relationship even mean you, you know, I mean, I any healthy relationship there has to be some seriousness and there has to be humor.

00:33:16:12 – 00:33:36:11
Dr. Mona
It’s so healthy and I like that we can do that as well. Laughs a little bit. Try a little bit, get frustrated a little bit, really show the full array of human emotions with each other and really become better people by having that safe space that you said you didn’t have. And I think me and you both want to create that for each other and our family.

00:33:36:13 – 00:33:59:20
Gaurav
Yeah. And I just think it’s a lot harder for males to do that than it is for females. I think that females, tend to just have a very open nature to them, from whatever evolutionary standpoint it is for men. I think it’s like there’s still this kind of roadblock where it’s like, I want to let you get close, but I don’t want to let you get too close kind of thing.

00:33:59:22 – 00:34:34:10
Gaurav
And you know, I’m hoping that by having this conversation that my vulnerability allows someone else to be vulnerable going forward and to show that it’s okay that I don’t have my shit together all the time. Yeah, I seek help from a therapist that I do like a lot of yoga, a lot of reading, a lot of mental health exercises so that I can be the best version of myself for my children and for you and for our friends or family.

00:34:34:13 – 00:34:51:15
Gaurav
And to be perfectly honest with you, I feel like men are at a disadvantage because of those societal expectations. Right? Like I there’s a lot of male figures out there who are screaming internally to let something out, but just feel like they can’t.

00:34:51:18 – 00:35:07:13
Dr. Mona
For women. Yeah, the boys boys don’t cry, right? Like the boys don’t cry mentality. That machismo culture of like, well, no, I got to be the tough one. You’ve alluded to that, right? Like even if there’s two people working, the man tends to be the one to feel like they have to be the tough one, the strong one.

00:35:07:20 – 00:35:29:27
Dr. Mona
I mean, we know when zero was born and obviously Ryan was born. I was hospitalized both times. I mean, wow, and we missed out on that religious ceremony where they, you know, have a ten days of life at our home because I was in the hospital with Ryan, and I was also in the hospital with Vera. And I remember you were at home with my parents doing that ceremony.

00:35:29:27 – 00:35:50:17
Dr. Mona
I was stuck in the hospital with my I.V. antibiotics, crying because I couldn’t be home again for our second and last child’s little ceremony. That meant a lot to me. And I remember you also cried, and you told me that you cried. And that you also told me that my father, who was again raised in this sort of culture of men don’t cry, men don’t cry.

00:35:50:20 – 00:36:08:20
Dr. Mona
You can’t have feelings. Suppress, suppress, suppress. He told you, stop crying. Why are you crying? You got to be tough. You got to be tough. And I remember being a little disappointed in my father for saying that. But also, you know, I know he was raised in a generation that never learned that it’s okay to be vulnerable. But also, I was very glad that you did cry.

00:36:08:24 – 00:36:30:27
Dr. Mona
And it shows, again, strength that you did cry because your wife was hospitalized, again with a postpartum complication that was extremely rare. Your daughter was fine at that point, but it’s just a reminder of the threat to our lives. I mean, of course any human being would be anxious and sad. And why would you, if you were happy, I’d be really confused, you know?

00:36:30:27 – 00:36:55:29
Dr. Mona
So it just it’s just a story because even in our 30s, you know, I’m late 30s, you’re in your, early 40s. Even as a grown adults, we still deal with this from our parents generation. Right? That. Oh, well, you can’t talk about that. You can only talk about good things. You can’t talk about difficult things. You can talk about the fact that you experienced birth trauma, or that your son had a medical issue, or that you’re experiencing it again.

00:36:56:02 – 00:37:18:13
Dr. Mona
And I had to set some boundaries with my parents, too and say, no, actually, I am going to talk about it, because the lack of talking about it is what makes people struggle. Like same thing with IVF. When I started talking about IVF, the amount of people that were just like, thank you for talking about it because no one talks about how hard it is, especially in the South Asian community, but abroad too, that, hey, this stuff is really hard.

00:37:18:20 – 00:37:36:14
Dr. Mona
It’s not saying that it’s harder for me than it is for you, and that I’m a woe is me. It’s saying that I know that what I’m going through and what I’m feeling is hard. And maybe you’re dealing with the same exact thing or something else, and I just want you to have the courage to tell yourself, this is hard for me right now.

00:37:36:17 – 00:37:56:03
Dr. Mona
And I want to tell people it’s hard because when you do that, like I said earlier, it’s when you can actually get through it if you never acknowledge your feeling. And this goes back to parenting, right? If we suppress our child’s feeling all the time and say, don’t feel, don’t feel, you can’t feel sad, you can’t feel sad, or you can’t feel frustrated.

00:37:56:03 – 00:38:16:22
Dr. Mona
Stop being frustrated. Stop feeling angry. They’re never going to learn this very human emotion and how to take that emotion and channel it in a healthy way. Or if they’re growing up and they’re incapable of handling that emotion, whether it’s anxiety in the future, whether it’s depression in the future, that I’m not alone, that I can get help.

00:38:16:24 – 00:38:38:23
Dr. Mona
Now, let’s take a break to hear from our sponsors. I’m happy we’re having this conversation because of course, we’re talking about parental mental health. But it goes down to our kids. You know, you brought up earlier about how joyous Ryan is and how full of life. And I, I get a little teary eyed when, whenever, whenever we talk about him or whenever you know, people ask because he is a very happy boy.

00:38:38:29 – 00:39:00:28
Dr. Mona
And I’m not saying happy because he doesn’t feel sadness or frustration. He’s happy in that he knows he’s only for and he is so emotionally intelligent. He knows when he’s frustrated, he knows when he’s incapable, and we give him that space. But we also give him space to feel. And neither me or you got that. And I’m very proud of us for giving that to Ryan.

00:39:00:28 – 00:39:20:28
Dr. Mona
And obviously, because as she gets older, that space to say I don’t feel good, I feel sad today. He was like, mommy, I’m just really tired. I see that because for a four year old, to know what’s going on in his body, physically and emotionally makes me feel like we hit the jackpot in parenting. When of course, no one is a perfect parent.

00:39:20:28 – 00:39:39:28
Dr. Mona
But I feel like, okay, he knows what he’s feeling. We’re doing this, we’re going to support him and that we’re going to make it that every feeling in this house is okay, that you don’t always have to be happy if you’re sad, we’re going to figure out, how can we get you through this? Do you need help or do you just need some time?

00:39:40:00 – 00:40:06:00
Dr. Mona
But when you never get that as a child, like you did or like I did, and then you grow up still as grown adults being told, stop feeling. Why are you upset? Why do you need to take a break from work? Why are you burnt out when people don’t understand? That is when you really feel like you can’t have that safe space that you keep mentioning and I think is such an important like throughline for this conversation of like, we all just want safety and we all just want emotional safety.

00:40:06:06 – 00:40:25:27
Dr. Mona
And that goes down to feeling like you can feel your feelings, but also that if I am feeling unwell physically and emotionally, that I’m going to talk to someone about it and we’re so quick to see a doctor of something physically is paining us, right, but we’re not quick to see someone if we’re struggling mentally. And that has to do with stigma.

00:40:26:00 – 00:40:55:02
Gaurav
Yes, you are 100% correct. And you know, there may be a subset of parents out there who are listening to this and are like, well, I don’t want my son to grow up and be so emotional that he can’t handle life’s stressors. And I don’t want them to be so sensitive. And, you know, because there’s this fear that, you know, this next generation or the Gen Zers are all way too emotional and, you know, they’re all in their fields all the time.

00:40:55:02 – 00:41:00:15
Dr. Mona
And, yeah, well, there’s a balance like we talk about. Yeah, there’s yeah, there’s feelings. But also we’ve got to mobilize. Yeah.

00:41:00:18 – 00:41:19:14
Gaurav
I always come back to the balance. And I’m not saying we spend all day, every day catering to Ryan’s emotions and needs and sitting there with him while he cries all the time. For I know we give him space to feel his feelings move through them. But then, hey, we got to mobilize. We got to do this again.

00:41:19:16 – 00:41:37:09
Gaurav
Like we’re not stopping our lives because Ryan is a bit dysregulated. We’re giving him the space to be dysregulated, to let himself work through those moments, offer support and encouragement. But then you know what? We got to get in the car and go.

00:41:37:12 – 00:41:48:22
Dr. Mona
Yeah, well, we we gotta make these burgers like, today, right? Like he didn’t want to. I don’t even know what the meltdown was about. But I’m like, no, we’re going to go outside. We’re going to make some burgers like, you knew, we need to move through this. And we’re. You’re happy you’re okay. Yeah, yeah.

00:41:48:25 – 00:42:08:10
Gaurav
Like when Ryan’s enjoying something, he doesn’t like to leave. Oh, you have to leave. Like I took him to a little kids adventure at the mall yesterday, and he’s having a great time, playing with, like, magnetic sand and all this stuff. And our time was up, and I said, right, it’s time to go. And he had a full blown meltdown in the middle of the mall.

00:42:08:12 – 00:42:26:14
Gaurav
And I gave him his space. I said, I kneeled right next to him. I was like, you’re upset that we have to go, right? And he’s like, yeah. And the tears were streaming and I just kneeled down next to him for 20 to 30s. And then I told him I was like, Ryan, you feel a little better? Do you feel like you want to walk?

00:42:26:14 – 00:42:44:27
Gaurav
And he’s like, not really. But I was like, but we have to go anyway. So here you can hold my hand. Let’s start walking. And so I started walking and he continues to cry. But as we got closer and closer to the car, he started to reregulate he knew that I was there to offer him physical support, emotional support.

00:42:45:00 – 00:42:49:08
Gaurav
But you know, I wasn’t going to lie down on the ground with him in the middle of the mall and cry.

00:42:49:10 – 00:42:50:22
Dr. Mona
Like, right.

00:42:50:24 – 00:43:01:27
Gaurav
I, I, I all, if I acknowledge his emotion, offered my support, told him that my support is not going anywhere. But then I continued to mosey on down the mall and get to our car.

00:43:02:00 – 00:43:21:21
Dr. Mona
Well, that’s that’s what you what you just said is the point, right? Is that you gave him the space, and you also said that I’m not going anywhere like you are comfortable with his uncomfortable feelings, right? Because we tend to look at sadness, frustration, yelling as uncomfortable, right? It gets our, you know, fight or flight up, right? Like all of a sudden your heart rate’s racing.

00:43:21:21 – 00:43:37:24
Dr. Mona
And so the tendency for a lot of parents, especially for a lot of boys growing up, right. We talk about that. Boys don’t cry but a lot of boys and girls is that sort of well, let’s just shove this down. We need to either give them what they want or we need to say, okay, stop crying. Stop crying because it’s so uncomfortable for us.

00:43:37:27 – 00:43:54:03
Dr. Mona
And then we’re also embarrassed about the public. Like, what are people saying? But I mean, you did. Kudos to you on a really great job handling that meltdown. Excessive public meltdown. But you’re right that it is about safety and mobilization to you’re okay, you’re okay. We’re going to. But we have to keep walking.

00:43:54:05 – 00:44:21:00
Gaurav
Yeah, I mean I there was the Auntie Annie’s pretzel shop like 50ft away. And I could have gotten some, like, sugary pretzel puffs, and the whole thing would have ended in 30s. But I didn’t care that I was in a public place, and that ran down like it didn’t bother me. And I didn’t feel ashamed to sit with them and kneel down on the ground while people around me were walking.

00:44:21:02 – 00:44:27:21
Dr. Mona
Did your parents or parents. Yeah. Does your parents ever kneel on the ground and talk to you like that?

00:44:27:23 – 00:45:03:10
Gaurav
No. They would either be buying me something to yeah, get me to call me down, or they were just drag me out of the wall. 1 or 2 things. Yeah, most of the time it was. They were just given by me. Whatever it is that I was crying about. Right. And again, I don’t want the parents out there to get this misconception that, like, oh, my God, I’m taking, like, leaps and bounds while your child is having a meltdown in the middle of a mall, and doing something so honorable by getting down on one knee and letting him cry, I’m like, no.

00:45:03:12 – 00:45:22:01
Gaurav
It was a very quick ten second thing where I was like, Ryan, I know you’re upset. I’m here for you, but let’s go. We got to go. Yeah, yeah. And listen, he cried. And I can understand that how that can make some parents uncomfortable in a public setting. But that’s why healing for us as parents is so important.

00:45:22:04 – 00:45:35:27
Gaurav
Because the anxiety that you feel when your child is crying in the middle of a public place is not the anxiety that you’re worried about the child, it’s that you’re anxious about the judgment of others.

00:45:35:28 – 00:45:36:20
Dr. Mona
Yes.

00:45:36:20 – 00:45:51:23
Gaurav
Yeah. About your ability to parent or not parent your child. You think that there are people looking at you and being like, oh my God, how could they just let their son or daughter cry in the middle of the mall? They must be so inattentive or unloving to their child, and so therefore.

00:45:51:23 – 00:46:06:25
Dr. Mona
They don’t have control over their that’s, you know, like, oh, they don’t know how to discipline. But it’s like, no, sometimes the discipline is not harsh. And that’s why it doesn’t look right to some people. Right. Like meaning you’re not threatening them. You’re not yelling at them, but you’re taking them aside and saying, have your moment, but let’s lock.

00:46:06:28 – 00:46:24:24
Dr. Mona
And to some people who are raised in that, it can look like permissive when it’s actually not, you know, like what you did is not permissive by any means. It’s actually very succinct of this is what’s happening, you’re feeling this way, but we got to move. But no, I, I agree that it’s the anxiety over what people are saying because that anxiety doesn’t exist.

00:46:24:27 – 00:46:38:20
Dr. Mona
And maybe it does for some people. But in your security of your four walls, are you feeling the same things about when you’re having a public term versus a, you know, in the home tantrum? Which public tantrums have that layer of, well, what are people going to think? Which is hard.

00:46:38:22 – 00:47:12:09
Gaurav
Right? And which ties back to the point of this conversation is that as adults and as parents, we owe it not only to our children, but we owe it to ourselves to do the work to heal from those previous wounds or traumatic events. So that, you know, we are able to be the generation or our kids, or at least able to be the generation where we no longer suppress our emotions that are our feelings, and we’re able to be aware and conscious of them.

00:47:12:11 – 00:48:00:19
Gaurav
And, you know, the advent of social media has at least helped elevate the voices of so many, like yourself and others that, promote this, that it’s it’s so vital. But even in the mental health realm of social media, you don’t hear a lot of male voices, right? Yeah. Predominantly. Still very female. So, coming back to one of the things that we spoke about earlier as a male, understanding that we have the same vulnerabilities as females do, we may be just doing a way better job at hiding them and covering them up, but they’re under there and they’re itching to get out and you may be able to suppress them for 30,

00:48:00:19 – 00:48:39:15
Gaurav
40, 50, 60 years. But they’re wreaking havoc internally on you, and it’s showing up in various aspects of your life, whether you know it on a conscious level or not. And so even if you think that you’ve got everything locked in right now and you think that everything is great, there’s no harm in checking in with someone who’s professionally trained, and who’s been doing this for quite a while and be like, hey, I just want to see if there’s things that I could be working on in this area or that area that could be helpful to me.

00:48:39:18 – 00:48:51:21
Gaurav
And so it doesn’t always have to be at a moment of crisis. Like, I can see myself even when times are going great, still wanting to continue therapy as just a maintenance kind of.

00:48:51:27 – 00:49:19:28
Dr. Mona
I mean, you do, right? Like you go every week, even when things aren’t like you have nothing really to say. Like you’re literally going and you kind of just catch up and really learn something else. But same with me. Ever since January 2024, being consistent and going not just for again treatment, but for prevention, right? Like maintenance, like I want to get in a good place where I can handle the big things and the small things that come into our life and be healthier mentally, not just physically.

00:49:19:28 – 00:49:39:23
Dr. Mona
You know, we work out, we do this, we eat, eat balanced. But we really need to focus on that mental health. And would you say that or how would you say therapy and prioritizing mental health has benefited you as a father, you know, partner physically, what would you say is your final message as to how that really has helped you be a better person?

00:49:39:26 – 00:50:27:17
Gaurav
Well, I think it’s a couple of things. It’s the accountability. It’s the ability to know that there is a safe space for me to express my needs. And again, my story is very unique in that my childhood is quite unique. That I don’t know if a lot of people could relate to, but I know that the story of my own childhood and the person that my childhood groomed me to be needed help and needed desperately, and activities such as therapy, such as yoga and things of that nature have helped me understand that well, there’s not something actually wrong with me.

00:50:27:17 – 00:50:52:03
Gaurav
It’s just the way I was thinking or behaviors were modeled to me were incorrect, and I can actually change those things moving forward that there isn’t something functionally actually wrong with me, which is what I thought was the case for a good majority of my life, that, oh, this is just who I am. This is just me. Well, no, this is not just me.

00:50:52:03 – 00:51:19:00
Gaurav
This is just what I experience. And this is the story I made up about that experience. Well, I can go back and I can’t change the events of what happened to me, but I can change the story that I tell myself about it. I can change the way I show up as a father or two children. I can model those behaviors that I wish that could have been modeled to me, to our kids.

00:51:19:03 – 00:52:08:02
Gaurav
And so therapy helps me stay accountable in those parts of my life, because for me, it’s an ongoing process. Like as I’m parenting our children, I’m also reprinting myself at the same time. Yeah. And that’s why I like to say I’ll be in therapy probably for the rest of my life. Not because I feel like I’m that broken, but I feel like that’s how I’m going to continue to stay the most present, the most capable, the most content, the most fulfilled person that I can be is having the availability of someone to walk me through these processes moving forward, and walk me through these thoughts and events in my life that are going to continue

00:52:08:02 – 00:52:26:27
Gaurav
to come. So it’s changed my life in so many ways that I am so grateful for. And I’m so grateful that I found a great therapist. I know that can be very difficult as well as, like I said earlier, it’s kind of like dating. You kind of have to go through a few until you find the right one.

00:52:27:00 – 00:52:53:26
Gaurav
Yeah. But, I’m just so grateful for. Yeah, for for her and for the amount of time that she lets me, talk to every week and the the space that she’s provided for me where I can enter into a safe place where I know that there’s no judgment, there’s no shame, there’s no anything. It’s just whatever you need to talk about.

00:52:53:26 – 00:53:02:00
Gaurav
Let’s do it. Let’s talk about it. It’s safe. You’re safe here. And I think everyone on on this planet deserves a safe place.

00:53:02:03 – 00:53:21:13
Dr. Mona
Yeah, well, I can say that you going to therapy consistently. Really helped our marriage. And then when I started going to therapy consistently has really even helped even more. You know, I think we can both attest to that, that we have learned to communicate with each other better. Obviously, it’s a work in progress every day, like any relationship.

00:53:21:13 – 00:53:42:25
Dr. Mona
But this individual therapy getting to undo and really get to the root of all the reasons why we may carry anxiety, feelings of sadness, feelings of, you know, lack of self-worth, whatever it may be that we’re struggling with. It really has been helpful for our marriage too. And so thank you for joining me on the show for episode number four together.

00:53:43:02 – 00:54:02:15
Dr. Mona
I think it was just really healthy to have this conversation together so that people can really, hopefully normalize and feel less alone if they are struggling or again, their partner. That may be a male, a non birthing partner. Everyone struggles and I’m just really grateful that we took the time to talk about this today. So thank you for joining me.

00:54:02:17 – 00:54:22:15
Gaurav
I had a great time being here. I hope it won’t be my last, but it was such an important topic and I think, like you said, everyone can benefit from a conversation like this to be had in your own home, in your own life. And, Yeah. Like I said, I hope this is not the last time that I’m on your show.

00:54:22:15 – 00:54:42:18
Gaurav
So if you guys out there listening or enjoying. Yes, having me on, just leave a review in the comments section. It always, is a nice gesture to see that our conversations are helping people. So, yeah, I hope to I hope to be back on again. Pretty soon.

00:54:42:20 – 00:55:07:11
Dr. Mona
Yeah. Well, I obviously love talking about this off the record, and I’m really grateful that you took the time. Second time, by the way, I, I should put on my story that we tried to record last night and there was technical difficulty. So full transparency, really grateful that we were able to have no internet issues and get this out there because I am just, again, so passionate about bringing all this to the forefront, because it’s not just about parenting, it’s re parenting ourselves.

00:55:07:11 – 00:55:15:07
Dr. Mona
We’ve talked about that. It’s all this work that we have to do to be better versions of ourselves so that we can parent better. So thank you for joining me today.

00:55:15:09 – 00:55:19:18
Gaurav
You’re more than welcome.

00:55:19:20 – 00:55:44:00
Dr. Mona
I’m so happy my husband could join me on this episode. I thought it was such an important conversation, and I hope our personal experience can really again, normalize this experience if you are going through it and also destigmatize the conversations we have around mental health. I will be attaching a link to my shownotes that goes over postpartum mental health, not only in women, but also in men and non birthing partners.

00:55:44:05 – 00:56:07:06
Dr. Mona
Like I said, between 7 to 9% of new fathers can develop postpartum depression. And it’s really important that we know the signs and symptoms of this situation so that we can get help for all caregivers involved in that baby’s care. If you love this episode, make sure to leave a review a rating, update your review and share this episode on your stories on Instagram.

00:56:07:11 – 00:56:14:23
Dr. Mona
Tag me at Pete’s Doctor so I know you love this conversation and I cannot wait for a future episode with another guest next time.