Every child deserves to feel understood and included! Teaching kids about neurodiversity early fosters empathy, reduces stigma, and helps them embrace differences. By normalizing accommodations and shifting perspectives, we create a more accepting world where everyone can thrive.

Today, I’m joined by Laura Petix, a Neurodivergent Occupational Therapist, to discuss how we can build a future of true inclusion starting with ourselves and our kids.

We discuss:

• How neurodivergent individuals, including children, experience the world differently due to variations in brain wiring.
• That teaching kids about neurodiversity from a young age helps normalize differences, reduce stigma, and foster empathy.
• True inclusivity means creating environments where accommodations are normalized rather than seen as special exceptions.

 

To connect with Laura Petix follow her on Instagram @theotbutterfly and check out all her resources on https://theotbutterfly.com/ and purchase her new book A Kids Book About Neurodiversity

 

00:00 – Intro: Why Every Parent Needs to Understand Neurodiversity

01:26 – Meet Laura Petix & Her Powerful New Book

03:13 – The Dinner Table Example & Why Neurodiversity Matters

05:32 – Shifting the Narrative: Teaching Neurotypical Kids Compassion

08:06 – Kids Are Ready: Why Early Conversations Matter

09:40 – Busting Myths: Common Misconceptions About Neurodivergent Kids

13:43 – The Cost of Misunderstanding: Impact on Mental Health & Self-Esteem

19:02 – Rethinking Classrooms & Playgrounds: Creating Comfortable Spaces

24:42 – Labels, Language & Empowerment: How Parents Can Do Better

36:22 – Laura’s Hope for the Future: Inclusion Without Conditions

 

Our podcasts are also now on YouTube. If you prefer a video podcast with closed captioning, check us out there and subscribe to PedsDocTalk.

 

We love the sponsors that make this show possible! You can always find all the special deals and codes for all our current sponsors on the PedsDocTalk Podcast Sponsorships page of the website.

00;00;00;00 – 00;00;14;21

Laura Petix

We all have a picture of what a brain looks like, and that will be pretty similar. But there’s parts of the brains that we can’t see that that are different, and those are called neurons, and that’s how they connect to different places in your brain and in your body. And I say it’s kind of like wires and they connect.

 

00;00;14;28 – 00;00;35;08

Laura Petix

And there’s different ways and patterns that our brain connects to different parts of our brain and body that make us different. So it makes us, be able to learn our favorite song or, I mean, it makes some of us good at chess and it makes some of us good at tag and all of these things that make us different.

 

00;00;35;10 – 00;00;39;17

Laura Petix

And the differences between us is really what’s called neurodiversity.

 

00;00;39;19 – 00;01;01;25

Dr. Mona

Hey there. It’s Doctor Mona, your trusted pediatrician, confidante and mom friend, and you’re listening to the PedsDocTalk podcast. Today, we’re having a conversation that every single parent, yes, every parent, and let’s say every human needs to hear. Because here’s the deal. Whether your child is neurodivergent or not, they are going to interact with kids who are and how they respond in those moments.

 

00;01;01;29 – 00;01;26;10

Dr. Mona

With these children, whether they choose curiosity or judgment, inclusion or exclusion shapes the kind of humans they grow up to be. That’s why I’m so excited to welcome Laura Petix’s, occupational therapist and author of a kid’s book about neurodiversity. Laura is passionate about helping families understand neurodiversity not just for kids who are neurodivergent, but for every child and family who will interact with, learn from, and grow alongside them.

 

00;01;26;14 – 00;01;50;08

Dr. Mona

If you want your child to be a kind, inclusive, aware human which, let’s be real, we all should. And that is the embodiment of the desktop platform. This episode is a must listen. We’re breaking down what neurodiversity actually means, how to explain it to a child, and maybe to yourself if you don’t know what it means. Why? It’s not just about a diagnosis, and how understanding it can make your child a better friend and a better person.

 

00;01;50;08 – 00;01;58;16

Dr. Mona

This is the kind of conversation that changes perspectives and builds bridges and connections. So let’s get into it.

 

00;01;58;18 – 00;02;02;28

Dr. Mona

Thank you so much for joining me today. Laura. Can I just hold the book near my face the entire time?

 

00;02;02;28 – 00;02;19;02

Laura Petix

Oh my gosh, it makes me so happy to see that. It makes me so happy to see. You know, I started getting pictures yesterday of the little hands holding the book, and that just gives me chills. It’s it’s such an honor to be able to put this book out there. So thank you for letting me share this with your audience today.

 

00;02;19;02 – 00;02;32;25

Dr. Mona

Well, I do have to put the book down so I can speak to you. Otherwise it’s going to like, you know, hit the mic or hit the camera and I but you know, this is something that I wanted to move up in terms of recording. You know, I recorded in batches my guest, my listeners know that. But I heard you were coming out with this book.

 

00;02;32;26 – 00;02;50;18

Dr. Mona

You obviously contact and I’m like, this is what the world needs. And for anyone who’s not familiar with this series, so a kids book about is a series of various books on very important topics. So you know about diverse various things and diversity. So racism or, you know, a kid’s book about different holidays and I just love it.

 

00;02;50;18 – 00;03;13;07

Dr. Mona

And we have not seen one about neurodiversity. And so it’s geared towards families, children ages five and up can read it. I have not yet read it with my son because we just got it, but he is five and he is excited and I’m so excited too. And before we get into it, I just want to read one page and then I’m going to ask you a question, because I just want to tell you how powerful this is.

 

00;03;13;07 – 00;03;30;24

Dr. Mona

So I’m reading a page from the book. So for anyone who’s not watching, I’m opening a book right now and they’re listening. Okay. So I’m going to read a little part. For example, imagine eating with your family. Your grown ups usually make the same meal, but this time they add something different to it. You might not like the new version of the meal as much, but you still eat it.

 

00;03;30;26 – 00;03;55;29

Dr. Mona

But for someone with a neurodivergent brain, this unexpected change might feel really big or scary, and their body responds to that. And this can look like crying, screaming, or moving their body in big ways. Oh, okay. The reason why I chose to read that is you take situations that are so typical to all families, right? Everyone has had dinner at the dining table with a kid who may not, who may be refusing.

 

00;03;55;29 – 00;04;15;23

Dr. Mona

And you brought to light how this can be different in a family who has a neurodiverse child, how a change can be so much harder for that child? And what does this book mean to you? Why do you think it’s so important that you wrote it? And what do you hope that the listeners today get if they read the book, or especially even just after a conversation?

 

00;04;15;25 – 00;04;42;22

Laura Petix

I’m so glad that you read that passage, because it’s not one that’s often talked about, but it is a really great way to illustrate how behaviors that we see, that can be labeled different ways, like bad child or kid that’s acting spoiled or bratty or wanting attention, how it really can be stemming from a neurological difference in the way that their brain is wired and how their brain responds to things in the environment.

 

00;04;42;22 – 00;05;04;14

Laura Petix

And so my biggest, my daughter is my inspiration for everything that I do behind the butterfly, for everyone listening, my daughter is neurodivergent, and like many parents, I would say all parents. We are always learning from our kids. So she is a mirror, a reflection to all the strengths that I have and all of the things that I can probably aim to be better at or look at the world differently.

 

00;05;04;14 – 00;05;32;04

Laura Petix

And so she’s a big inspiration for this book and what surprises a lot of people to hear about this book is, while it’s definitely helpful for neurodivergent kids to feel represented, and to have this book to feel like it can be a part of their story and help them feel seen. I really, really wrote it. Imagining reading it to neurotypical kids, reading it to the peers of my daughter, the classmates in her class.

 

00;05;32;06 – 00;05;57;29

Laura Petix

And that’s because I think that there’s so much burden put on neurodivergent families to constantly, talk about and explain behaviors and challenges and things that might feel different to others. And, it’s always, the responsibility of the neurodivergent child and family to conform to the environment and to adapt themselves to be more, to make others more comfortable.

 

00;05;58;07 – 00;06;28;27

Laura Petix

And I think it’s so important that neurotypical kids understand that it’s a collective responsibility of all of us to make each environment as inclusive as possible for everybody. And so I think that this book helps, give neurotypical kids more of a mindset shift about behaviors that they might have seen from their classmates or siblings or cousins when their cousin had a meltdown at the family barbecue, over not wanting bread crumbs on the mac and cheese and thinking like, oh well, my parents would make me eat that.

 

00;06;28;27 – 00;06;46;20

Laura Petix

They’re a crybaby. And so helping make those shifts for kids is really helpful. And what I found out is that as parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles read these books with their kids, it’s starting to seep in for them as well. And that’s just the best of both worlds for me.

 

00;06;46;22 – 00;07;04;06

Dr. Mona

I love it. I told you I loved it already, but one of the biggest things that I appreciate so much is we talk about diversity a lot, right? We talk about diversity, and people tend to think diversity is always visible, meaning that it’s skin color or that it’s maybe, someone who has like able bodied or in a wheelchair.

 

00;07;04;07 – 00;07;42;07

Dr. Mona

Things like that. But neurodiversity is a form of diversity that I think is often overlooked or not talked about. And the fact that you’re gearing this towards neurotypical families is so useful. And I know kids noticed differences long before we think they do, right? Even if it’s something like neurodiversity. Right? So and if we don’t give them the language to understand neurodiversity, they may fill the gaps with assumptions, like you mentioned, a crybaby or why are they being a brat when sometimes these are negative things and with a little more compassion, with a little more empathy, and most importantly for me, with a little more inclusion, this can make everyone have better relationships, right?

 

00;07;42;08 – 00;08;04;08

Dr. Mona

Not only the neurodiverse child, but then the neurotypical child who wants to be friends with that neurodiverse child but just doesn’t know? Maybe. How can I approach this moment with this neurotypical child or neurotypical child? And how can I bridge this sort of difference? How, as we would do with skin color, as we would do with anything else like the differences, is what makes us more powerful.

 

00;08;04;08 – 00;08;06;10

Dr. Mona

And thank you for this book for that.

 

00;08;06;10 – 00;08;26;14

Laura Petix

Yes, yes, thank you so much for saying that. I think that this is really our chance to take control of the narrative so that I, I like that these books are geared towards five and up and I hear from families all the time. Is my child too young to talk about this? And if anyone who’s listening, I recommend you listen.

 

00;08;26;14 – 00;08;46;05

Laura Petix

You find the TEDx talk of the founder of a kid’s co. His name is Jelani Memory. Yeah. And he did a Ted talk, called Kids Are Ready. And that’s the entire, spirit of these books is that kids are ready to have these conversations. This book is not your typical bedtime story with, like, a mouse or a dinosaur going through the story.

 

00;08;46;11 – 00;09;19;17

Laura Petix

Those are great, fun, engaging books. These books, these series, and mine as well have embellishments and designs to make some words stand out. But there’s not a lot of illustration. The message is really, really meant to stand out and shine, and it helps us take control of the narrative and help our kids take control of the narrative, early on so that it doesn’t get those gaps, get filled, like you said, with misconceptions, myths, labels, and misunderstandings of how their peers are behaving around them.

 

00;09;19;19 – 00;09;40;06

Dr. Mona

Now, let’s take a quick break to hear from our sponsors who support helps us keep bringing you this show. And I would love to segway into that exact comment. The misconceptions. What would you say are some of the most common misconceptions about neurodivergent kids that you wish more parents or more neurotypical children would understand?

 

00;09;40;09 – 00;10;05;05

Laura Petix

You sort of touched on it earlier, but I would say one of the top, top ones I think about is that that there’s a specific look to being neurodivergent, and I am guilty of that, too. I came into this before I had my daughter and learn more about neurodiversity. I also had a very particular picture of what I thought it meant to look autistic or neurodivergent, and a lot of that came from the narrow scope that we had growing up.

 

00;10;05;08 – 00;10;35;05

Laura Petix

We know we now know that the diagnostic criteria and the way that we evaluate autism and other neurodivergent neuro types looks different. It’s a broader net that that cast that, that catches more. So it looks different now because we know more about it. And I also didn’t understand the concept or the actual ability of masking. I also thought if you can mask it, if you can fake it, then you must not be neurodivergent, which is a lot of the misconception I see around there with parents and teachers.

 

00;10;35;08 – 00;11;07;14

Laura Petix

And then just really mislabeling kids as a quote, just a behavior or a behavioral child. So that’s one of the top misconception. And then the second one that kind of leans on that is that just because the world is built with a society that’s more conducive to neurotypical standards and neurotypical norms, it doesn’t mean that that’s the one and only and the right way, and that everyone who deviates from that needs to go needs to get back to that, to be on track, to be right like that does not mean it.

 

00;11;07;21 – 00;11;26;13

Laura Petix

It does mean that it makes it harder for certain neuro types and brain patterns to feel comfortable in every environment. But it doesn’t mean that they need to change that about them in order to be accepted or function in society. There are there are ways to adapt the environment around that.

 

00;11;26;15 – 00;11;45;13

Dr. Mona

And one of the reasons I wanted you on the show is that I hope parents would read this book with their children, because the book obviously has language for a child to understand. But I also wanted you to come on so that we could talk to parents about neurodiversity, because sometimes, as we know, if you are more familiar with the neurotypical world, you’re not going to understand.

 

00;11;45;13 – 00;12;02;23

Dr. Mona

And you just mentioned like a world built for neurotic brains. In what ways do you think neurodivergent children are excluded due to a lack of understanding about neurodiversity, or because of the way the world is? Like, why do you think you know that neurodivergent children might have an exclusion in this way?

 

00;12;02;25 – 00;12;23;24

Laura Petix

I think a lot of it happens socially because, again, it starts with kids. Kids are not taught how different play and different communication might look like. They might misinterpret behavior as rude, or that kid doesn’t want to play with you because they ignored you. There’s some behavior like sensory seeking or stimming behaviors that might not be talked about.

 

00;12;24;00 – 00;12;52;06

Laura Petix

And their parents say, you know, don’t stare, don’t look at them. But it also doesn’t mean to make that person an invisible. Yeah, maybe understand why they do that or be curious about about why that happens. But I think it’s really this misunderstanding that there is it’s that there’s a deficit or an impairment with, and that it’s not worth your time to try to play with them or communicate with them because they’re different.

 

00;12;52;09 – 00;13;21;16

Laura Petix

So I think the whole word different and differences needs to be rebranded with this particular context, and that I hope that this book and the way we talk about neurodiversity, at least one, neutralizes the term being different. We don’t have to say it’s a positive thing always. It’s not a negative thing to say I’m different. So we want to neutralize the word and the feeling around difference.

 

00;13;21;18 – 00;13;43;15

Laura Petix

And then we also want to normalize that. There are differences among everybody around between neurotypical people and neurodivergent people and autistic and all different kinds of neuro type just normalize that they exist everywhere and ignoring them or expecting them to change is not a, a way that the world is going to move forward with inclusion.

 

00;13;43;15 – 00;14;01;04

Dr. Mona

And I so appreciate you mentioning earlier in this conversation already that you also held some of those judgments, you know, or misconceptions before you, you know, went through your own experience. And I as well, you know, a lot of what I knew about neurodiversity was, like you had mentioned from movies that were not always depicted of what it should be.

 

00;14;01;04 – 00;14;19;17

Dr. Mona

I’m going to use the the signature movie from the olden days, which is Rain Man. I think, you know, Rain Man, you know, when you start to show that and that alone is what people see. They think it has to be that that’s that’s autism, that’s neurodiverse. That’s one. But obviously we know neurodiverse is not only autism. And even within autism, there’s a spectrum of autism.

 

00;14;19;17 – 00;14;46;25

Dr. Mona

And it’s not always going to be what you see. And even now you know how it’s changed my life as a pediatrician. Understanding neurodiversity more is before I understood this level. I mean, I could learn even more, and I love being in contact with people like you and people who teach me about neurodiversity. Even more is before this, it was very much like sometimes when a child would come in and they were more difficult or having more meltdowns, you know, the office would be like, okay, more tough love.

 

00;14;46;25 – 00;15;05;16

Dr. Mona

And now when I hear a child, like screaming when they’re taking vitals, I and I’m like, that seems a little unusual because they’re older, because typically our older children do get more comfortable with the doctor, but they’re like a 4 or 5 year old. And then I look at the chart and it says some sort of, you know, maybe it’s autism, maybe it’s something else.

 

00;15;05;16 – 00;15;23;27

Dr. Mona

And I’m like, hey, can we can we take a step back here and maybe approach this in a different way? You know, and so it’s important for us to know this because it’s not a difficult child like you mentioned. It’s not a lack of parental boundary. It’s not that. And sometimes we judge so much. And I’ve been there too on that side of the judgment of like, oh, well, why are they doing that?

 

00;15;23;27 – 00;15;50;28

Dr. Mona

And even with things like screen time, you know, I make my own screen time roles and I very much understand. And when I try to educate, I try to add the nuance, which is always hard sometimes, but I this is what I do. But I know that some children who are neurodiverse really benefit from having screens as a coping skill when they’re overwhelmed or, you know, having that security, having that with them and it’s so important that we listen to these conversations and learn from our neurodiverse families and children, just like we would.

 

00;15;50;28 – 00;15;58;23

Dr. Mona

And I go back to things that are more visible, like skin color right now. It is differences. We can say that I am Indian and you are.

 

00;15;58;25 – 00;15;59;12

Laura Petix

Filipino.

 

00;15;59;12 – 00;16;19;15

Dr. Mona

Filipino. We are different. And I’m I’m not going to say we’re the same. We are different. I’m Indian, you’re Filipino. We both have amazing food and we can connect over that. Just like a neurotypical child and a neurotypical child can relate to the fact that they both love playing with dinosaurs. Like using that as an example. Like we are different, but we can connect over our joint interests and be kind if we don’t.

 

00;16;19;18 – 00;16;39;23

Dr. Mona

Right? And that’s to me what I think is always lacking in that. When you have judgment in the driver’s seat, like, oh God, like that difficult kid, why is he grabbing the cupcake? Like, why is he not waiting for the the, the birthday song to be done? Like when we understand that, you know what, let’s give the parents a little benefit of the doubt and let’s give it the child a little better benefit of the doubt.

 

00;16;39;26 – 00;16;56;27

Dr. Mona

And I try to teach adults in my life this to when they judge children like, oh, I’m like, we don’t know that child. Like we don’t know. We can’t make an assumption. We can’t say it’s bad parenting because people think it’s bad parenting. And I I’ve learned that it’s not oh, my voice just cracked. I wasn’t crying, but I’ve learned that it’s not like it’s it’s.

 

00;16;57;04 – 00;17;14;19

Dr. Mona

We got to understand a whole situation. Nobody knows that except that family, like. And maybe the pediatrician who has a really close relationship on things that they’re struggling with. But I know better now of, like, is this a lack of boundaries or is this a child who is needs to learn the world in a different way, like a neurodiverse child?

 

00;17;14;25 – 00;17;29;03

Dr. Mona

And I think it’s so important that we just as a, as a human in society that we give people the benefit of the doubt and say, you know what? Let them figure it out. Let’s hold compassion, because if we were in those shoes, in any other situation, I would hope that we would want the same in return.

 

00;17;29;06 – 00;18;01;03

Laura Petix

I couldn’t have said it better. I’m so glad that you are. It’s so good to have medical professionals understand and take an interest in understanding neurodiversity from this perspective. Because as you said, that it’s so quick to try to adjust or try to change behaviors for the convenience of a medical visit to go faster or, you know, lots of things that that I get, but it’s it’s it’s just really trying to see it from a different perspective and understanding that these behaviors are stemming from a nervous system response.

 

00;18;01;03 – 00;18;08;27

Laura Petix

Like there’s really how can we fault a child for feeling unsafe in their nervous system and then reacting in that way.

 

00;18;08;27 – 00;18;29;19

Dr. Mona

If you’re, like, really good at Segways, because I was literally going to ask something around that, like, you don’t even you don’t even know. But like, I was like, you know, feeling unsafe, right? So my next question was, was really like, how? How does all of this. Right. Not talking about neurodiversity from early age, how does it impact that neurodivergent child’s brain self-esteem and the way their peers interact with them?

 

00;18;29;19 – 00;18;32;02

Dr. Mona

If we’re not having these conversations.

 

00;18;32;04 – 00;19;02;10

Laura Petix

Oh, you know, it. I have been doing a lot of research. Both, you know, informal, just talking to autistic adults and late identified adults and also reading some research on it and, the resounding, narrative or thoughts and opinions that I’m hearing is that knowing that this is part of your identity, that your brain is wired differently as opposed to thinking that there’s something wrong with you?

 

00;19;02;12 – 00;19;31;07

Laura Petix

And, and, accepting the, the missed labels of being lazy, being bad, being stubborn, being all of these things, it can really take a toll on your mental health. Yeah. And burnout. Because when you don’t know that this is the way that you’re hardwired to function in the world and you’re working against the grain for up until your 30s and 40s, when some people are still now just, yeah, identifying or getting diagnosis neurodivergent.

 

00;19;31;09 – 00;19;54;19

Laura Petix

It takes a toll on your nervous system and the way you function. And then it’s so hard to unlearn that it’s so hard. And so not only is it self-esteem, but truly just functional burnout in day to day life. And you can imagine how that how that translate to parenting and being in a marriage or a partnership and, and your friendships and all of that.

 

00;19;54;19 – 00;20;15;15

Laura Petix

And as even someone in the field who now I myself just identified that I have ADHD and I’m neurodivergent, unlearning the the habits that I have formed in order to keep up with what I thought was expected of me. Because if I wasn’t, then there was something wrong that is so hard. Yeah, it’s very, very hard to undo.

 

00;20;15;20 – 00;20;38;19

Laura Petix

And I could see how it has had an effect on my mental health. And I didn’t even have really significant needs growing up as so many others. And so I’ve heard from others who were bullied, and they just have gone their whole life believing those things that were said about them and having this sense of relief now, understanding that there’s been nothing wrong with them this entire time.

 

00;20;38;19 – 00;20;46;21

Laura Petix

They just were forcing themselves to function on a different operating system that wasn’t compatible with the way that their brain worked.

 

00;20;46;23 – 00;21;09;19

Dr. Mona

It’s so freeing and I love that you brought up the example of so many adults who got diagnoses later in life. You know, that they finally got that ADHD or neurodivergent diagnoses and how freeing that can be, because now you understand your mind more and understand your body more. It’s like it’s just like how we would want a diagnosis for like something else or like, just say you are like, you know, you’re dealing with something and people see you finally they’re like, yeah, you are.

 

00;21;09;26 – 00;21;26;11

Dr. Mona

Yeah. This person and I love that. And that is awesome that you think about that. And for me as a mother and then also pediatrician and also just going through my own childhood, I think about my peers growing up who probably could have had this sort of neurodiversity label, if we want to say that and never got it.

 

00;21;26;11 – 00;21;44;29

Dr. Mona

And they probably went through their entire life and hopefully as an adult, they now feel seen and how hard that was in a school system, right? With peers, with teachers who didn’t know as much as we know now in the 90s and 80s, you know, yeah, the class clown, like the the troublemaker, like you said, the labels that we put that aren’t as positive as neurodivergent.

 

00;21;44;29 – 00;22;02;15

Dr. Mona

Like, this child can’t sit down because this child is not able to sit down for seven hours in a day, because most children can’t. And then you add in a neurodiverse child who needs maybe some stimulus or maybe like something to bounce their legs on or something to give them that, that stimulus to be able. So how can we better work with children?

 

00;22;02;15 – 00;22;22;09

Dr. Mona

And I think I’m just curious your thoughts because some in my in my mind and tell me if I’m wrong. My goal here when I think about a neurodiverse child, is I want this child to feel like they know who they are, and I don’t want them to conform to a neurotypical world, but I want them to be able to have things that can make them be a part of that world.

 

00;22;22;09 – 00;22;42;22

Dr. Mona

Is that a good way to look at it? Or because like, for example, like a school system, I don’t want my neurotypical, neurotypical child to not have to be in a class with their peers. But what can we add to make this a more enjoyable experience for that neurotypical? Is that kind of the goal that we hope with neurotypical children, or what would you say is a better phrasing of that?

 

00;22;42;25 – 00;22;50;27

Dr. Mona

Now let’s take a quick break to hear from our sponsors who support helps us keep bringing you this show.

 

00;22;50;29 – 00;23;05;12

Laura Petix

I think I think it’s right on track. I think if we lead with the idea that we want everybody in the environment, the classroom, the whole, the library, the park to feel like they are comfortable enough to exist in that environment.

 

00;23;05;12 – 00;23;06;09

Dr. Mona

Okay.

 

00;23;06;12 – 00;23;29;08

Laura Petix

Comfortable is that is the easiest way to boil it down and to have the autonomy to choose to participate. And if they have no interest, if they don’t feel comfortable, they have other options to exist amongst their peers to be with their family. But maybe they don’t want to participate in the way that you think it looks like they’re going to participate.

 

00;23;29;10 – 00;24;05;27

Laura Petix

If we can lead with the idea that there’s not necessarily a neurotypical brain. If I said that earlier, let me rephrase. It’s not that there’s one textbook perfectly wired brain, and that’s that’s the model brain that we need. There are neurotypical standards and unspoken rules and social norms and things that that our society function around. And there are some people with a brain wiring that can get through daily life with no need for accommodations.

 

00;24;06;00 – 00;24;42;01

Laura Petix

Yes, maybe they they are inconvenienced. Maybe it’s annoying. Maybe they’re bored sometimes. Maybe they have sad days. Maybe they experience anxiety some days, but they can get through daily life without really any need for modifications. And it’s not going to affect their nervous system, their mental health, their success, their functioning, their quality of life. There are people with other kinds of brain wiring where they need significant accommodations or tools or strategies in order to be able to feel comfortable to access all of the skills that they have in their brain.

 

00;24;42;04 – 00;24;46;20

Laura Petix

And that’s how I classify neurodivergent and neurotypical.

 

00;24;46;22 – 00;25;02;25

Dr. Mona

I love that think, you know, and also because what I wanted to also just kind of be clear is, you know, we talk about a neurotypical world is what the default is, right? Meaning that is kind of what we know, whether it’s from sensory, whatever it is. And that because I want it to be that here’s the world we’re in.

 

00;25;02;28 – 00;25;16;15

Dr. Mona

Are we, you know, what are we trying to accommodate? Because people are like, we’re trying to fix it. If we’re trying to accommodate. I’m like, is that it? Or is it more that we’re trying to make them, like you said, feel comfortable in these situations, whether it is a neurotypical child or neurotypical child, both of them we would have to do.

 

00;25;16;15 – 00;25;27;12

Dr. Mona

But respecting the fact that a neuro atypical child may need a little more assistance, and being more comfortable in a situation that may not always be what a neurotypical my child might be comfortable in.

 

00;25;27;17 – 00;25;48;23

Laura Petix

Right? Right. There might be some things in that environment that require a neurodivergent person person to work harder to filter certain sounds, to feel comfortable and to be able to get the right movement or stimuli, to be able to be alert and to focus. So they might need more breaks. There’s so many different ways that they can deviate from narrative standards.

 

00;25;48;23 – 00;26;01;26

Laura Petix

And yet that’s not a deficiency. It’s not an impairment. It’s not something wrong. It’s just that’s the way that they work. Can we be conducive to that? Can we can we help make that a possibility for them?

 

00;26;01;28 – 00;26;17;07

Dr. Mona

Oh, very, very thank you so much for answering that. Like I said, I love speaking with you, speaking to others about, again, just trying to find the right understanding terminology, things like that. A to me is an important way. And I know it’s not always about getting it right or saying the right thing is. But I do believe it’s nice to always want to learn.

 

00;26;17;07 – 00;26;39;16

Dr. Mona

So thank you for for teaching me. I really appreciate that. And in terms of the book, you know, obviously the book is something that we hope that people can read with their child and have conversations about. What would you say from a first basic standpoint, how would you explain what being neurotypical, neurotypical or and what is neurodiversity to a child who may not understand what that is like?

 

00;26;39;16 – 00;26;41;12

Dr. Mona

How would you explain it to a five year old or above?

 

00;26;41;12 – 00;27;00;22

Laura Petix

Yeah, yeah. So the sequence of the book really takes it through this. The, the sort of like mini curriculum that I typically do with kids, whether I do an assembly or I’m talking to one on one or a family. And I start by just talking about how, brains look the same from the outside. Like, if you can think of a brain, if you can draw a brain.

 

00;27;00;22 – 00;27;25;02

Laura Petix

We all have a picture of what a brain looks like, and I’ll be pretty similar. But there’s parts of the brains that we can’t see that that are different. And those are called neurons. And that’s how they connect to different places in your brain and in your body. I say it’s kind of like wires and they connect. And there’s different ways and patterns that our brain connects to different parts of our brain and body that make us different.

 

00;27;25;02 – 00;27;43;26

Laura Petix

So it makes us, be able to learn our favorite song or, I mean, it makes some of us good at chess, and it makes some of us good at tag. And all of these things that make us different. And the differences between us is really what’s called neurodiversity. And I break down the word even I say neuro means neurons.

 

00;27;43;26 – 00;28;06;03

Laura Petix

And when I’m talking to kids, I always especially big group of kids, I just say neuro means neurons. Can everyone say neurons? Neurons. And just like when I and said diversity means differences. Yeah. And then I’ll have them say diversity and then we’ll put it together. So we don’t need to sugarcoat the word. So I would teach a four year old the word neurodiversity.

 

00;28;06;10 – 00;28;34;25

Laura Petix

Break it down if you have to. So just talking about that there’s differences among all brains. And then maybe zoom in about like differences that are very concrete and relevant to that particular child in their community. So it might not be relevant to every child, but I you know, I bet there are some kids that they know on the playground or in their classroom who move their hands back and forth, who wear headphones, who maybe make sounds with their mouth that aren’t words.

 

00;28;34;28 – 00;29;07;26

Laura Petix

So I would talk about those differences and how they communicate differently. I would talk about kids who play, like to play a certain way and kids who prefer to play another way and really, really just boil it down to behaviors that the child naturally sees in their environment and reframe them as differences that usually they fall under either differences to communicate differences in how they play differences, and how they learn, and then differences and how they experience things.

 

00;29;07;26 – 00;29;26;12

Laura Petix

So if you can point out one of each of those things that relates to your child specifically that they can think of and say, oh, yeah, I remember seeing that other kid on the playground the other day. He didn’t like to play on the swings by sitting on it. He liked to push the swing back and forth just with no one on it.

 

00;29;26;12 – 00;29;54;29

Laura Petix

That’s how he played with the swings. Then I remember that kid at Circle Time, and how he preferred to learn by standing and fiddling with something. That’s how he learns. I need quiet, so differences in play, communication, learning, and experiencing the world. If you could come up with one concrete way and one concrete example to talk to your child about that, that’s going to be the best way to illustrate neurodiversity and make it a like a tangible thing for them to understand.

 

00;29;55;01 – 00;30;14;17

Dr. Mona

I love that I again, the book is so much deeper into that with that example that we had at the beginning with the dining table and something that another child may be like, okay, big deal. And they’re looking at maybe their sibling or a friend and they’re like, why are they reacting like that? And you know how the words that we use as parents versus, oh, they’re being difficult versus, hey, they’re just learning.

 

00;30;14;17 – 00;30;37;06

Dr. Mona

They need a little more time and that’s okay. It’s so much so much more empowering for that child who’s dealing with that situation, but also that child who’s observing how we as adults are communicating that. Right. Having your experience as a mom who is neurodivergent, a neurodivergent child, the work that you do, I mean, you have you’re you’re approaching this from many different angles.

 

00;30;37;06 – 00;31;05;09

Dr. Mona

What are some phrases or things that you feel are not helpful, that you’ve heard from the work that you’ve done, or even if you’re willing to share, that have been told to you when speaking about your neurodiversity or a child’s neurodiversity. That you wish parents would just kind of be acknowledging of and maybe try to fix. And I if you have any examples, that would be helpful because I know we’re talking the book is so much more about what to do, but are there certain things that you’re like, you know what, I just if I have this soapbox right now, which you do, what would I want to tell people?

 

00;31;05;12 – 00;31;33;19

Laura Petix

I think a main one, again, one of my inspirations for this book, but a conversation that’s been very present recently on my Instagram posts and in the discussions, is this idea or fear from parents of, not wanting to label their child? So when we talk about diagnoses, when we talk about being neurodivergent or sensory seeking or sensory avoiding, a lot of times parents tend to call those labels and they say, I don’t like to label my child.

 

00;31;33;25 – 00;31;58;26

Laura Petix

My child is just the word. Just my child is just highly sensitive. My child is just shy. My child just needs time to warm up my child. There’s just all these other labels. Yeah. It’s it’s it’s it’s quite ironic to me to hear people avoid labels when, when they mean they’re avoiding the diagnosis because there’s a stigma attached in their mind about this.

 

00;31;58;27 – 00;32;21;19

Laura Petix

And again, I have been there. We grew up with that. It’s not your fault. It’s not your fault that you have this internalized ableism is what we call it. It’s not your fault. There’s nothing wrong about the fact that that happened, because that’s what we grew up with. But it is your responsibility to to unpack that and try to change that and dismantle that internalized ableism.

 

00;32;21;19 – 00;32;46;07

Laura Petix

So, so worrying about, you know, if I label my child, I don’t want them to feel different. I don’t want them to be treated differently. I pause there for a second and I say, they are different. Yeah. And they are already being treated differently. You can’t stop ignoring the autism, ignoring the ADHD, ignoring the sensory needs. Does it make it go away?

 

00;32;46;09 – 00;33;10;04

Laura Petix

It just gets it, makes it seen in a different light. So that’s my biggest soapbox message to parents is that labels aren’t bad. I agree that there are some words like I try to avoid disorder because autism is not a disorder, but they’re still autistic. They still have a very specific brain wiring that falls under an autistic neuro type.

 

00;33;10;07 – 00;33;31;25

Laura Petix

And I would say the second kind of more general, misconception or something that I would love to dismantle. We had another conversation. I might have brought this up there, but it was it’s the idea that, like, parents will ask their teachers to, is this, sensory or behavior? Is my child doing this? Is this what they’re doing?

 

00;33;32;02 – 00;33;55;26

Laura Petix

Is it a behavior or is it sensory? And I always have them take a step back and I say, well, it’s a behavior, period. It’s a behavior. There’s nothing wrong with behavior. It’s just an observation of what a child is doing that you can see on the outside. And I think what you’re asking here is, is my child’s behavior being caused by a sensory need or something that they can’t help, or are they doing it on purpose?

 

00;33;56;02 – 00;34;23;10

Laura Petix

That’s really what the question is getting at. Yeah. And so I want parents to just see every single behavior that you see is a reflection of the nervous system. And it’s being dictated by what that nervous system is experiencing and what it needs. And when you start from there, it opens up a different way of of approaching parenting where it doesn’t feel like you are, faking it or just following a script because you know that the school standard, but don’t believe it when you start.

 

00;34;23;10 – 00;34;32;02

Laura Petix

Yeah, they’re nervous system. You’re like, okay, okay, now now I’m starting to get it. And then it feels more natural to do some of these neurodiverse affirming parenting strategies.

 

00;34;32;02 – 00;34;51;23

Dr. Mona

Well, exactly like you said. You know, I don’t I don’t like labels for things that are going to be transient, like, for example, like I consider shyness a transient thing because in certain situations, a child who is shy may be more open. Right? So picky eating. I don’t like labeling that because it can be transient, but someone’s identity is not transient.

 

00;34;51;23 – 00;35;10;11

Dr. Mona

It’s like saying it’s like saying, well, I don’t want to be Indian today. Like I’m not going to, but no, I am Indian. Let’s let’s call a spade a spade. It’s okay. And also by doing that we can serve them better in terms of like the sort of like you said, the resources, like what do they need? What do they need to be able to, again, be comfortable in the world that they’re in.

 

00;35;10;11 – 00;35;27;28

Dr. Mona

And if we don’t allow that ability, we’re not in my in my feeling, too. We’re not allowing them to reach their own full potential on their own development, not comparing to anybody else, but like, what can we provide for that child? And going back to how you beautifully phrase that for them to be comfortable in this world, because I believe every child deserves that 100%.

 

00;35;27;28 – 00;35;44;00

Dr. Mona

Yes, safety and come secure now with this book and the work that you’re doing. I guess this could also be a final question. What do you hope the world would be like in ten years when it comes to neurodiversity education and acceptance in your ideal ten year outlook?

 

00;35;44;02 – 00;36;21;27

Laura Petix

Oh my gosh, it’s such a big question. Yeah, I really hope that what we consider accommodations are just a normalized thing, that you don’t have to prove that you’re that you have some golden ticket diagnosis in order to get a certain accommodation. I just want people to feel empowered to ask for the accommodation, to know what works for them, to feel the, that they deserve to take up space in community spaces, of all different kinds of diversity.

 

00;36;22;02 – 00;36;44;21

Laura Petix

But just this idea that you’re not a burden to ask for an accommodation, that it’s just a part of normalized society, that maybe it’s not even considered an accommodation anymore, and it’s just the way that you are at the library. It’s just the way that you shop. And that I think can help a lot of mental health related challenges that people experience.

 

00;36;44;23 – 00;36;52;10

Laura Petix

And hopefully more community. Yeah, a lot less, hate and unkind things happening in the world.

 

00;36;52;12 – 00;37;07;09

Dr. Mona

Yeah, I mean, I you brought you brought it home perfectly to the judgment, the fact that it needs to be fixed. You know, I know that that goes around social a lot. And we have talked about that as well. You know, the the most recent one I saw was a smoothie that could fix your autism. And I’m like, I’ve.

 

00;37;07;09 – 00;37;08;06

Laura Petix

Seen a smoothie.

 

00;37;08;06 – 00;37;26;22

Dr. Mona

I’ve seen like, I, I have a rule that I’m going to actually respond to with that, but I’m like, I it’s so, you know, for me, obviously this is and that’s why I asked the wordage that you would say and like, you know, this isn’t something that needs fixing. I mean, we are trying to understand and celebrate just like we would any other form of diversity.

 

00;37;26;22 – 00;37;44;01

Dr. Mona

And I love this. I’m so excited to read it with my son. I’m going to do it on a weekend because on weekdays I try to pick shorter books because, yeah, like so like it’s not that. It’s not that it’s not that long. Everybody, but it’s longer than like, if you want a quick book on a weekday because you got to get to bed like it is hours, you want to leave.

 

00;37;44;01 – 00;37;46;24

Laura Petix

Time for questions? Yeah, it’s a conversation.

 

00;37;46;24 – 00;37;47;13

Dr. Mona

Starter. Yes.

 

00;37;47;19 – 00;37;50;29

Laura Petix

I’m going to not just to get through the book and then them and goodnight. Yeah.

 

00;37;51;01 – 00;38;05;26

Dr. Mona

Exactly. We are going to have a debrief. We are going to talk. We’re going to talk about himself. And I’ve mentioned this to you. We have another podcast coming and I jump this up before. But you know, I have I look at my son and I do see some, some things and I’m like, oh, he could be neurodiverse in some ways.

 

00;38;06;01 – 00;38;28;27

Dr. Mona

No official diagnoses, if you will. But I can’t wait to talk to him about this book, because some of the feelings that he has with certain routine changes and, you know, certain ways that he doesn’t like things on his hands, like all these things like we talked about in our sensory episode. I cannot wait to chat with him about and like, let him understand, because at the end of the day, this is not only about acceptance for everyone else’s kids.

 

00;38;28;27 – 00;38;48;08

Dr. Mona

Like, I want my kids to be kind to all children, whether they can see a difference or whether it’s not always visible. You don’t have to be everyone’s best best friend, but you have to be kind. I mean, that is my role with parenting. Like I said, there’s no room for erasing assholes. We are going to raise children who love, and if we don’t play with everyone, we are kind about it.

 

00;38;48;08 – 00;39;08;20

Dr. Mona

Because I get it. I’m not best friends with everybody, but how can we be kind? How can we be inclusive? How can we notice the child who may be more quote unquote shy, who may need more warm up? How can we include these people to be more kind human beings? And I think how how amazing would the world be if all of us stepped up as parents to raise kids like that?

 

00;39;08;22 – 00;39;18;11

Laura Petix

That would be, ideal. I think that if we can teach our kids to lead with curiosity instead of judgment, this goes for parents I’m talking about.

 

00;39;18;11 – 00;39;20;04

Dr. Mona

Yes, I know I’m just going to be an adult.

 

00;39;20;06 – 00;39;50;20

Laura Petix

If we can approach every potential conflict, disagreement, all of those things with curiosity first before even making a judgment, how many conflicts and arguments or really uncomfortable scenarios would we avoid if we lead with just saying that’s interesting, I wonder. I wonder why they think that way. I wonder why they do that that way. And just even starting there just opens up so many more opportunities.

 

00;39;50;23 – 00;40;07;09

Dr. Mona

Laura, I love talking to you. I know we have another episode going live in the fall, everybody. We actually recorded that one first and then we recorded this one again. So if I say like, you know, introducing she’s coming back again here before the other one. And that’s because of this book. So a kids book about neurodiversity.

 

00;40;07;09 – 00;40;15;17

Dr. Mona

Tell us, Laura, where people can find this book and also where they can go to stay connected with you. And if you can’t see me, I’m holding up the book that you all need to get. Yay!

 

00;40;15;19 – 00;40;30;16

Laura Petix

Yeah. So you can find the book at the at butterfly.com/book. That’s I put as many different international Amazon links and other links for you to purchase on in one spot, so you can go there and then I am always on Instagram at the odd butterfly.

 

00;40;30;18 – 00;40;47;01

Dr. Mona

Perfect. I’m going to be linking the OT multi butterfly.com/book her Instagram handle as well. So you can stay up to date on the book that she’s written. Obviously all the work that she’s doing. Laura, you are one of my favorite contacts in the social media world. I hope that one day we can meet Sam. I know we’ve talked about that.

 

00;40;47;03 – 00;41;02;06

Dr. Mona

If I’m in town and whatnot, but really, I learned so much from you. And I’ve mentioned this like, there’s not I learn a lot from people, but, like, there are certain people on social that I learn way more from. And you and there’s another, Andy, species.

 

00;41;02;09 – 00;41;02;26

Laura Petix

And.

 

00;41;02;29 – 00;41;26;05

Dr. Mona

Mrs. Candy Pudge. Yeah. I love learning about neurodiversity from both of you because I’ve been very transparent. We don’t learn nearly as much about neurodiversity and training as we should. And so part of my like, continuing education to be a better doctor and to be a better person on social media is to understand. And if I you know, I really appreciate that, that the work that you do, because as a fellow professional, I learned so much.

 

00;41;26;05 – 00;41;29;09

Dr. Mona

So, you know, big shout out to the work that you do. Thank you.

 

00;41;29;12 – 00;41;34;12

Laura Petix

That means a lot. Thank you so much.

 

00;41;34;15 – 00;42;01;14

Dr. Mona

Wow, what an important conversation at the heart of all of this. It’s really about allowing all of our children, whether they’re neurodivergent or neurotypical, to feel comfortable in their own skin and mine. And that is what Laura beautifully said. And because we all want to create a world where differences are accepted, understood, and even celebrated. And I know that to be true of our community here, we’re raising kids who not only feel seen, but who also see others with empathy and kindness.

 

00;42;01;17 – 00;42;23;23

Dr. Mona

This isn’t just about parenting, it’s about shaping a more inclusive world. And I’m so grateful for conversations like this one with Laura Paddocks that help us do just that. And if today’s discussion got you thinking, I highly recommend getting your hands on her book. A kid’s book about neurodiversity. Whether you read it for yourself or with your child, it’s a powerful way to spark meaningful conversations and build a foundation of understanding in your home.

 

00;42;23;26 – 00;42;42;10

Dr. Mona

And now, I’d love to hear from you. What resonated most with you from today’s episode? What’s one key takeaway that you’re holding on to? Let’s keep the conversation going. Head over to my socials at PedsDocTalk and the PedsDocTalk podcast on Instagram, and drop a comment on our latest post about this episode and if this conversation spoke to you.

 

00;42;42;10 – 00;43;04;26

Dr. Mona

Share it on your stories and tag PedsDocTalk. ThePedsDocTalk podcast, and our guest, The OT Butterfly, because you never know who in your circle might need to hear this message today. Thank you for being here, for embracing growth, for embracing inclusion, and for being such a valued part of this community. Wishing you a fantastic week ahead and chat with you all next time with another great guest.

 

00;43;04;27 – 00;43;05;14

Dr. Mona

Stay well.