On today’s episode I welcome Katherine Sellery, a 3x TEDx speaker, who has taught thousands of parents the Conscious Parenting Revolution  to help them raise resilient, considerate, centered and empowered kids who know their inner voice and honor it.

We discuss what it means to be a conscious parent. Being a conscious parent requires us to dive deep into our insecurities as parents, how we approach discipline, and the high expectations we place on our children and ourselves.

00;00;06;05 – 00;00;36;13

Dr. Mona

Hey, everyone. Welcome to the PedsDocTalk podcast. I’m your host, Doctor Mona, where each week I hope to educate and inspire you in your journey through parenthood with information on your most common concerns as a parent and interviews with fellow parents and experts in the field. My hope is you leave each week feeling more educated, confident and empowered in the decisions you make for your child.

 

00;00;36;16 – 00;01;00;15

Dr. Mona

Hello and welcome to this week’s episode where I am so excited to welcome Katherine Sellery, who is the founder of The Conscious Parenting Revolution. She is a three times TEDx speaker who has taught thousands of parents in a conscious parenting revolution for resilient, considerate, centered, and empowered kids who know their inner voice and honor it. Thank you so much for being here today, Katherine.

 

00;01;00;18 – 00;01;03;25

Katherine Sellery

It’s so lovely to be here today. Thank you so much.

 

00;01;03;27 – 00;01;08;20

Dr. Mona

Well, tell me a little bit more about yourself and what the conscious parenting revolution is all about.

 

00;01;08;22 – 00;01;52;24

Katherine Sellery

Sure. So, I found through my own journey, like all of us, that I had a family of origin that, you know, at a certain level was just great. And at another level, I found it hard to stay in my own voice in the family. And even though I don’t think at the time I recognized it, as I became more mature and older in my life, I was able to begin to see the ways in which I would withhold or I would fail to, know how to stay connected to myself in the midst of a certain type of atmosphere.

 

00;01;52;27 – 00;02;39;24

Katherine Sellery

And it it became a journey. It became a life’s journey to figure out how to navigate my own inner world and integrate the family that I had grown up in so that I could be authentic and connected to myself. And, you know. And how then, as I was beginning to raise my own children and day, responsible about my own communication and how to do that at the same time as I was raising, you know, this, this incredible responsibility that is such an honor of being able to create the ecosystem, to raise children, to have a healthy relationship to themselves and others.

 

00;02;39;27 – 00;02;53;29

Dr. Mona

Great. So this is more about, as a parent, understanding our identities, our background, our maybe insecurities and how that can impact our children, and just being more aware of that whole picture of parenting. Correct?

 

00;02;54;01 – 00;03;24;00

Katherine Sellery

Yeah. Well put. So, you know, I talk about, you know, trans generational belief systems that don’t have considered, relationships so that we end up just passing these beliefs on without really considering. Is it true? Am I coming from a place where I’ve actually thought about this approach to, you know, do as you’re told because I said so?

 

00;03;24;02 – 00;03;43;09

Katherine Sellery

I’m the parent honor and respect all of these kinds of ideas that may not, be healthy. Maybe what we’re really looking for is children to be considerate of our needs. And do we have systems and discipline approaches that allow for them to also be considerate of themselves?

 

00;03;43;11 – 00;04;03;10

Dr. Mona

Oh, this resonates so much with me because, you know, I am a new mom. I have an 11 month old and just for my own parenting journey and for, you know, being a pediatrician and talking to other new moms or even fourth or fifth time moms about their parenting journeys, it’s so important that we kind of look at that as we go through this whole process as mothers, fathers, caregivers.

 

00;04;03;21 – 00;04;08;13

Dr. Mona

Where can a parent start? And becoming or being a conscious parent?

 

00;04;09;17 – 00;04;35;15

Katherine Sellery

You know, it’s so interesting because some people are going to start their journey. And I find that the ones with new children, little, little ways, they have a certain level of, just deep seated desire to want to create the absolute best parenting approach. And so the new parents that come in just don’t want to screw it up.

 

00;04;35;18 – 00;04;55;17

Katherine Sellery

You know, they want to have a foundation. They never had the manual. They haven’t got a clue what they’re doing. And they don’t know that until they have their first conflict. And those first conflicts may not really happen until a year or two. Because the first year is, you know, or maybe as a child moving into their second year, possibly.

 

00;04;55;17 – 00;05;19;08

Katherine Sellery

But, you know, pre-verbal children, it’s very easy for us to see them in their pureness that whatever they’re expressing is a direct relationship to an underlying unmet need. You know, I’m dirty. I need to be cleaned up, hungry. I need to be fat. I’m tired. I need to sleep. It’s so simple to just be able to see the expression as the representation of something that’s an underlying unmet need.

 

00;05;19;08 – 00;05;44;23

Katherine Sellery

So we respond in a very compassionate, loving way. Unless the mother or father is extremely tired. They’re able to, I think, have just a very straightforward, oh, you’re tired. Let me help you out here and I’m going to feed you. So I think that we begin to become a conscious parent when we recognize where we’re unconscious. And I don’t think we notice that until there’s conflict.

 

00;05;44;26 – 00;06;12;27

Katherine Sellery

And so that’s why I was saying, I think sometimes it takes the, the young child growing up a little bit and a little bit could really be into their, you know, second year of life. Sometimes it’s around that point. You know, we hear about the terrible twos. And I think, you know, I’ve thought about it a lot. I think what that really means is that it’s the first time the little 1st May say no.

 

00;06;12;29 – 00;06;37;07

Katherine Sellery

To you and you. You. And that’s where I think the consciousness bit comes in. It’s like, oh, wow. Now what do I do? I know for me, I have a 26 year old son, and my husband and I, we were living in Hong Kong and we spent 30 years there, and we both were professionals. And at that moment in time, we were like deer in headlights.

 

00;06;37;09 – 00;06;59;20

Katherine Sellery

And we both looked at each other like, well, now what do we do? And we didn’t know how to respond because all we had to draw on was our past and we both had grown up. And I’m just going to call it a typical family where it was really. You don’t say no to the parent, you do as you’re told or you’re not a good girl or a good boy.

 

00;07;00;07 – 00;07;25;17

Katherine Sellery

Kids are don’t do as they’re told are not considered respectful or good kids. So that’s where I was. And my husband were like, oh my gosh, now what do we do? Because if I want to be consciously aware of reading the know as something other than a moment to discipline, how do I do that? Most people haven’t got a clue.

 

00;07;25;20 – 00;07;45;28

Dr. Mona

Oh, it’s so true. And I’m in that group too. You know, the authoritarian sort of my way or the highway situation. And it’s actually fascinating because I do know a lot of families, for a lot of parents that are in our generation right now that had similar experiences. So I don’t I think people listening are not alone in that feeling that they’re like, yep, I definitely have some tendencies here.

 

00;07;46;19 – 00;08;01;06

Dr. Mona

And this is what I was raised in. And so why do you think this is an important thing that we know? Why? How is it that if we grew up in this sort of mentality, how can I have an affect on us? Or how can it have an effect, maybe negatively, on our children?

 

00;08;01;08 – 00;08;16;08

Katherine Sellery

Fundamental question is when you see behaviors that are presenting, how are you making it about how it makes you feel? Or are you looking at the child as revealing something about what’s going on for them?

 

00;08;16;19 – 00;08;17;27

Dr. Mona

Very important.

 

00;08;18;00 – 00;08;37;19

Katherine Sellery

So if the emphasis and I’m going to say most parents parents emphasis is really around my experience of the child’s behavior rather than, my child’s trying to reveal to me that there’s something going on inside of them that they’re having trouble staying connected to. If they do what I want them to do.

 

00;08;37;21 – 00;08;58;18

Dr. Mona

This is absolutely something that I’m so passionate about, because I think that’s so, so common in this parenting world. And you would think after generations of kind of understanding child behavior, we’d, you know, we’d start to kind of say, you know what? Why aren’t more people doing it? And I find more people haven’t gotten that message, haven’t gotten that understanding, like you’re trying to preach to the world.

 

00;08;58;18 – 00;09;18;08

Dr. Mona

And, you know, I also try to as well of understanding, looking at what the child’s going through versus what they’re doing for us in that situation, that they’re making me upset that they’re giving me a hard time when in reality, the child’s having a hard time, whether it’s processing that feeling that they’re feeling, dealing with some sort of new boundary that they’re being asked to do.

 

00;09;18;14 – 00;09;41;15

Dr. Mona

And it’s normal for them to feel unheard or feel like, well, I need to act out because I don’t know how to handle this, because I’ve never handled it before, and it is our job to kind of come in there and be that voice of calm and reason, for our child. So how can we create boundaries for our children but still allow their voice to be heard?

 

00;09;41;17 – 00;10;15;06

Katherine Sellery

So, I would say that, you know, this really is kind of like I’m going to say there’s a developmental spectrum going on, and if you’re talking about very young children, then the level to which it’s collaborative is probably less. So then as we move up in age. But I believe that the least effective problem solving happens when it’s one person dictating how a problem is going to be resolved.

 

00;10;15;08 – 00;10;44;09

Katherine Sellery

And when there’s both people involved in the conversation and the narrative, the outcome is likely to be completely different. So in that frame of the question you just ask, I’m listening for where it’s collaborative because I think that as we move through the ages of the child and their bandwidth, we give a certain degree of choice for a very young child.

 

00;10;44;09 – 00;11;16;27

Katherine Sellery

You know, it’s not like you know as much choice as you’d give an older child. And the choice has to be within a framework which I believe is better. If you’ve had conversations around things, whether that is what time somebody goes to sleep or what kinds of foods that they’re going to get access to, or, you know, some of those conversations which are more likely to be the ones that you have with young children, and then it’s going to develop into things like screen time and how much time they’re going to get to have on their screens, and then it’s going to be things like homework.

 

00;11;16;27 – 00;11;51;00

Katherine Sellery

And where does homework get scheduled into the life of that child? And then it’s going to be like, to what extent is everything being outer directed, and to what extent does someone feel the child that they had a choice? So these are to me like the nuances that I work with parents and really the grit, you know, the the granularity of these kinds of conversations so that we’re overcoming what tends to be the reactions to, solo conversation.

 

00;11;51;03 – 00;12;15;15

Katherine Sellery

So when it’s just one person who’s directing, directing, directing all the time, the other person doesn’t feel like any of it’s a request. They feel like it’s one demand after another, and that they’re not even part of the equation. Like they haven’t even been consulted about their feelings and needs. Nor have they been, raised in a, system, a family culture that’s actually supporting them.

 

00;12;15;17 – 00;12;23;04

Katherine Sellery

Being in touch with their feelings and needs as they arise are giving them a vocabulary to be able to articulate that.

 

00;12;23;07 – 00;12;40;13

Dr. Mona

I love how you phrased it in terms of developmental age, because of course, you know toddlers giving them two options between do you want to wear your red shoes or your blue shoes? And you want to do you want mac and cheese, or do you want pasta for, you know, for dinner? It’s it’s important not to give open ended questions at that age, right.

 

00;12;40;13 – 00;13;07;24

Dr. Mona

Because they’re toddlers. And as we get older in terms of boundaries with homework and going out with friends, you know, as they get into the teenage years and, and whatnot, it definitely evolves. I find that it’s almost in some ways unnatural evolution. If a family can start to do some boundaries earlier, right? Meaning the example I give with giving toddlers two options just by the nature of having those sort of open, open boundaries in a way that I’m deciding for you what you can have.

 

00;13;07;24 – 00;13;23;23

Dr. Mona

But here are your choices between the two. As you get older. When you start to get into that realm of understanding boundaries and understanding that, you know, you can have that sort of back and forth relationship, but that you are still kind of, the caretaker that has to make some decisions for the family and your child’s well-being.

 

00;13;23;29 – 00;13;45;18

Dr. Mona

It kind of naturally can flow into this sort of, okay, I’m going to offer my child some options and, you know, hear what they are saying. If you can get into this conscious parenting mindset, right, like if you are a conscious parent, you’re going to always try to kind of understand your your parenting, who you are, and then also who your child is so that they can be in tune with themselves.

 

00;13;46;00 – 00;14;00;16

Dr. Mona

How can we allow a child to stay in tune with who they are and listen to their inner voice? As we also are parenting and, you know, again, trying to be that sort of open, but understanding that we have to set some rules for the coming.

 

00;14;00;20 – 00;14;34;16

Katherine Sellery

So, I mean, there are a couple of things that you, you’ve brought up, which I think I would approach from a few angles. One of them is when you talk about setting rules for the family, I would say, again, you know, on the spectrum of developmentally appropriate, the level to which I dictate the rules versus we sit down together to talk about what works for all of us in the family are completely different conversations.

 

00;14;34;19 – 00;15;04;17

Katherine Sellery

So if you’re doing the authoritarian, then you’re basically back to solo directives as opposed to collaborative, conversations around the whole spectrum of what you want to talk about in this family. So if it’s a no, you know, in our family, everybody does chores and you, young man, young lady, are going to do your fair share. Like, that’s a whole nother conversation that I’m going to say isn’t going to end, isn’t going to end well.

 

00;15;04;20 – 00;15;24;24

Katherine Sellery

And on the other hand, sitting down in a family meeting and sharing, you know, from a place of, you know, here’s what happens in this family that makes it work. And, you know, I would love for all of us to choose some of the things that we’d like to support in the family to make it work well for all of us.

 

00;15;24;27 – 00;15;39;19

Katherine Sellery

You know, what would you like to do? You know, here’s the things that I’d like to do I really like. I like it when it’s really clean and I love to vacuum, you know? So I’d like to choose vacuuming, but if there’s somebody else who really loves that too, we could share days, you know, that’s a whole different conversation.

 

00;15;39;21 – 00;16;11;07

Katherine Sellery

And it creates a sense of team as opposed to because I said so in our family, this is what we do. I mean, when we start to get into that kind of rule setting, I would say it’s unlikely to work out in the long run in a way in which everybody’s participating because they chose to. And every time someone participates in a way in which they didn’t choose the person who created the culture, for them to feel like they had to is going to pay for that.

 

00;16;11;16 – 00;16;14;18

Dr. Mona

That’s a very good point. How early do you think a family can start to do that.

 

00;16;14;18 – 00;16;38;26

Katherine Sellery

Well I like to encourage it even pre-verbal. And and you know I’ve noticed with the families that I support that when child number two comes along, child number one usually feels something, they feel something. And it could be a range of mommy doesn’t love me as much or I’m not as important or something that is disruptive to that little person’s heart and soul.

 

00;16;38;29 – 00;17;04;16

Katherine Sellery

I’ve just noticed it so many times over the years, and that then can manifest in socially unacceptable behaviors like maybe hitting a little brother, a little sister, and doing things that are really triggering for the parent. If they’re seen through the eyes of inappropriate bad behavior. So when we break our habit of judging behaviors as good or bad, right?

 

00;17;04;16 – 00;17;27;26

Katherine Sellery

Wrong, and we see all behaviors as the manifestation of an unmet need, it’s a choice. I choose to teach people to look at behavior that way, because I think it’s the most accurate reflection of what you’re looking at. It may not be socially acceptable, it may be a behavior that is hurtful to another person. It’s something that requires intervention.

 

00;17;27;29 – 00;17;50;03

Katherine Sellery

And then the success of the intervention will be based on the story you’re telling yourself. So if you’re telling yourself the story of that was wrong or that was bad, now you go to your room, then we’re back in the world of rewards and punishments and disciplining. According to I’m going to teach you right from wrong based on, what I’m going to do to you.

 

00;17;50;05 – 00;18;12;04

Katherine Sellery

And you’ll learn it that way, because you’ll learn if you don’t want to go to your room again and be isolated from the rest of the family, then you’re just not going to do that behavior again. Well, that may work. You may get changes in behavior, but not for the reasons you want it. They’re doing it because now they’re feeling afraid of you or afraid of the withdrawal of your love.

 

00;18;12;06 – 00;18;37;17

Katherine Sellery

And instead, this is a child who was already suffering from feeling that they didn’t matter as much. And so it’s compounded the problem on the outer side. You may not see that manifesting again and think up by sorted that out, but actually you didn’t. You change the behavior without addressing what the pain was behind the behavior.

 

00;18;37;20 – 00;18;58;08

Dr. Mona

Right? It’s almost like it’s a quick fix versus a sort of okay, well, that seemed to work, but this is not something that’s going to be sustainable. And I think you also had mentioned, you know, before we recorded, I saw on your website also that this is something that we want to do in terms of being aware of our children’s emotions, to create self-esteem in the child as well.

 

00;18;58;08 – 00;19;16;21

Dr. Mona

Right? Meaning having them understand that we are a team effort here, that we have a two way street and that your emotions matter, and that I want you to have a kind of growth mindset, but also self-esteem in who you are. What are some other things that a parent can do and look inside themselves, maybe to kind of see?

 

00;19;16;21 – 00;19;26;22

Dr. Mona

Will this need be affecting my child’s self-esteem? Where can a parent start in understanding how they can impact their child’s self-esteem in a positive or negative way?

 

00;19;26;24 – 00;19;49;23

Katherine Sellery

Well, most parents, have been taught and probably experienced through their upbringing themselves that the way to. I think there’s a belief out there that the way that you support children feeling good about themselves is to praise them. When we know from the research if there’s any way that’s guaranteed to lower children’s self-esteem, it’s to praise them.

 

00;19;49;26 – 00;20;13;06

Katherine Sellery

So if you want to lower a child’s self-esteem, praise them. And praise is based on, you know, if you achieve my expectations I’m going to tell you how proud I am of you. And if you don’t, you know, act in a certain way that meets my expectations. I’m not proud of you. So it’s all about me. Which is, of course, got nothing to do with a child and how they feel about themselves.

 

00;20;13;09 – 00;20;38;22

Katherine Sellery

So one of the first things I began to work with people in my, you know, parenting communities that I coach is to just learn how to do this language of acknowledgment instead of the language of praise, so that a child begins to sense into how they feel about it, as opposed to how other people feel about them. So when you’re in the world of what other people think of me, it’s called socially prescribed perfectionism, and it’s all about what other people think of me.

 

00;20;38;22 – 00;20;58;22

Katherine Sellery

What will the neighbors think? What did the teacher think? What does this person think? What does that person think? And before you know it, you sense into what other people think of you. And on that basis, you feel good or bad about yourself, which is completely different from self referenced, which is I think I did really well and I feel good about it.

 

00;20;58;24 – 00;21;20;04

Katherine Sellery

I worked really hard. I wish I could have gotten better on the test, but I did. I really did do a good job and I know where I failed and I know where I need to work and I’m going to do that. And it’s not that I disappointed someone else or made them proud, it’s that I sent it into my own sense of, yeah, I can see how I needed to spend more time on this.

 

00;21;20;04 – 00;21;46;23

Katherine Sellery

You know, sometimes it’s hard to know where to put the emphasis, and I can still feel good about myself. You know, we have complicated self-worth issues because of interjecting, confidence as being the the key reason for whether someone can feel worthy or not. So if we can delink someone’s confidence from whether they’re worthy, then we begin to have two separate conversations.

 

00;21;46;23 – 00;21;52;20

Katherine Sellery

I am worthy of love and belonging no matter what, and it has nothing to do with my grades.

 

00;21;52;25 – 00;21;54;06

Dr. Mona

Right?

 

00;21;54;08 – 00;22;25;05

Katherine Sellery

But did linking competence from worth? In most families? This is a narrative that I don’t hear. It’s when they don’t do well, they’re made to feel bad about themselves, or they’ve been disappointing mom and dad. And, it really is a sense of children are a lot of families. Children are a reflection of the parents. And so if the child is failing or embarrassing the parent, then the child is made to feel badly about themselves.

 

00;22;25;07 – 00;22;46;23

Dr. Mona

Yeah, I see this all the time. I see it all the time. And it’s it’s it’s hard to watch because it does feel like there are ways to kind of help that family. And again, I’m so grateful that we’re having this conversation because I think this will help so many in the, you know, understanding of how we parent and what we are bringing to the table, obviously, is so important for our children’s, mindset.

 

00;22;46;25 – 00;23;05;22

Dr. Mona

And I love what you said about, you know, focusing on the process. Right. You said bringing that child to the table and acknowledging the example you gave with the grades. Right, acknowledging where they may have done well and also where they could have done better. Right. Did they not spend enough time? Maybe they could have done it in a different way versus the end result.

 

00;23;05;25 – 00;23;09;03

Dr. Mona

Do you recommend doing that when a when a child does succeed?

 

00;23;09;09 – 00;23;29;16

Katherine Sellery

Well, you know, first of all, when a child does well and we want to acknowledge that acknowledgment is not the same as praise. So instead of I’m so proud of you, it’s congratulations. How did you feel about that? So it really is just saying congratulations. I see you worked really hard on that. It seems like you feel really chuffed with yourself.

 

00;23;29;16 – 00;24;00;14

Katherine Sellery

I, I really want to, you know, just acknowledge that, I see how, how well you’ve done and I really just want to say congratulations for your hard work, at which point the child stays connected to the pure joy that comes from having worked on something. And succeeded. Because when you’ve worked on anything and done well, you already know within yourself there’s just a certain level of, joy that comes with that.

 

00;24;00;17 – 00;24;19;05

Katherine Sellery

And we want people to stay connected to their internal sense of God. I feel so good about myself. I, you know, that was tough stuff. And I really dedicated myself to it. And I feel good when it becomes about, you embarrassed me or, oh my God, I can’t believe you didn’t work harder. Or how could you do that?

 

00;24;19;05 – 00;24;40;01

Katherine Sellery

You’ll never get into XYZ school, blah blah blah. Then all of a sudden it’s very confusing to the child. Like, well, hold on a minute, you know, is this my journey? Is this your journey? Who’s journey is this I’ve had over the years? Three concert pianist in my course, and each and every one of them will not touch a piano.

 

00;24;40;03 – 00;25;00;26

Katherine Sellery

And, you know, that gives me a lot of pain. As I looked at these women who were so accomplished and one of them said to me, yeah, my mother stole my gift. She created an emotional environment in which it was so painful for me that even though I am a concert pianist, I reached the pinnacle of my career.

 

00;25;00;26 – 00;25;19;02

Katherine Sellery

I don’t ever want to touch a piano. There is so much pain connected to that piano that I just don’t even know how to integrate it in my life anymore, and they’ve all turned away from it. So this is where, you know, like, you win the battle and lose the war, like you’ve got this child to do it.

 

00;25;19;02 – 00;25;43;03

Katherine Sellery

I had a course running, years ago in Hong Kong where it one location I had the mother and at another location I had the daughter who just dropped out of Princeton for the third time. And and she couldn’t figure the mom couldn’t figure out what she’d done wrong. Because, of course, by all Asian parent standards, she had done everything she was supposed to do to get that child into the coveted Ivy League school.

 

00;25;43;05 – 00;26;10;07

Katherine Sellery

And that child had been so managed and so taught to do as she was told, and to reach other people’s expectations that by the time she got there, she didn’t know who she was, and she couldn’t stay there because she didn’t have the inner resources, because never had it been about her. And so it’s one of those where it’s like, you know, we need to get really clear about we aren’t creating children to make us proud.

 

00;26;10;09 – 00;26;45;01

Katherine Sellery

That’s not our job. Our job is to recognize that children have their little inner drummer, and that inner drummer is the most important thing that they stay connected to. And we can be, you know, tilling the soil and creating the environment in which that that precious being can thrive. And our job is to till the soil so that we are always creating, you know, the best fertilization and the best resources so that the field is good and it’s clean and it gives soil for something to happen.

 

00;26;45;04 – 00;27;22;09

Katherine Sellery

But what happens is completely from within the child, and there’s trust there that we can guide. And, you know, that’s why call it a guidance approach to parenting. It’s a very big difference between trusting a child has within them their dream. And how can we support that dream turning into a reality so that they can stay connected to, if it is that they love the piano, it it continues to be about their love of the piano, not what we want to do with it.

 

00;27;22;09 – 00;27;45;09

Katherine Sellery

I have a client right now who was talking to me about their child, who’d been enrolled, actually given a coveted spot in one of the performing arts schools. And some things have not really gone very well. And I had a conversation with the son recently, and he just said, it’s not my dream. And I was like, oh, okay.

 

00;27;45;11 – 00;27;53;05

Katherine Sellery

I say, so now this is about doing it for someone else. And and that’s never going to work out.

 

00;27;53;12 – 00;28;14;13

Dr. Mona

Oh, and I think this is actually this culture that you’re describing, right. This is actually something that again, we talked about at the beginning of this episode that you felt you were a parent in that way. I also felt I was parented that way. And I see my generation again parenting this way. And I think it’s actually getting worse because of social media and because of the comparison game that people play that I need to do this for me and not my child.

 

00;28;14;13 – 00;28;34;07

Dr. Mona

Right? Like you said it beautifully with the whole I’m proud, right? Like I you did this and I’m proud. It makes the parent. It puts the it puts the reward on the parent and not on the child in a way. Right. Like it puts it that this is great because I’m happy about it. I’m happy so that that means it’s a success when, like you said, with the concert pianist, maybe mom, their moms were proud.

 

00;28;34;07 – 00;28;51;16

Dr. Mona

But what about the child of were they proud of their work ethic? Were they proud of what happened? What you know, like you said, what could they have worked on? And it’s such an important concept. And I see it happen so much. I actually see myself trying to stop that, to like even it sounds so silly. Like even when Ryan is trying to walk.

 

00;28;51;16 – 00;29;07;26

Dr. Mona

My son’s name is Ryan and he’s an he’s an 11 month old and I noticed that I was getting I was myself getting frustrated when he wasn’t doing what I wanted him to do. Meaning I knew he could walk because he showed me five days ago that he could and then he would he would go to the ground and I will be okay.

 

00;29;07;28 – 00;29;10;00

Dr. Mona

Stand back up, stand back up.

 

00;29;10;02 – 00;29;11;09

Katherine Sellery

Like.

 

00;29;11;11 – 00;29;28;06

Dr. Mona

Why am I trying to rush this? Like I’m going to walk? Like I should be happy with the process. And you, you say beautifully because I, I check myself and I even said to my husband, I’m like, why am I getting upset at this? Like, it’s obviously something that’s going to happen and I’m literally putting an unheard of.

 

00;29;28;06 – 00;29;50;13

Dr. Mona

And why am I putting this expectation that he needs to walk like he’s going to walk like he’s showing signs as a pediatrician that he’s going to walk. And it’s so it’s such an a little example. And the reason I’m bringing it up right now is because, you know, I know we’re talking a lot about, you know, you’re giving examples of these older children who are, you know, doing things like, piano or instruments, but it really does go down stream, like you mentioned.

 

00;29;50;13 – 00;30;11;11

Dr. Mona

It’s from the moment that we see our child start to walk or even when they’re eating and, you know, I’ll say like, oh, Ryan, you eat so much. You eat so much today. But that’s what is the purpose of that. You know, there’s so much little nuances in how we approach success. And what are we defining and labeling as success, quote unquote, for our children, you know, because even from a young age, they’re listening.

 

00;30;11;11 – 00;30;32;24

Dr. Mona

And even if they’re not listening, we are we are obviously saying it, and we’re creating this sort of perception and sort of reality that what are we valuing as success, quote unquote, for my child? Is it that they’re doing this and they’re reaching this milestone? And I find in my parenting generation, the things that parents are looking at success are what our, you know, what we all have experienced.

 

00;30;32;24 – 00;30;55;23

Dr. Mona

But it’s to a maximum. It’s my child has to meet this milestone. They have to eat well. They have to sleep well. They have to be well-behaved. They have to do so many different activities. And it’s wearing it’s wearing the parents out and it’s wearing children out, right? They don’t want to be overstretched. Ten different activities. And that my mom values that I’m a great this and that when maybe I don’t want to do that, maybe I don’t find value in that.

 

00;30;55;23 – 00;31;17;01

Dr. Mona

And this is such an important conversation. And obviously you’re such a gift to the world, to be able to help parents understand this. What else can we do in terms of a family system to encourage children to stay connected to their inner voice? How can we develop that family system? I think you mentioned earlier about, you know, having that sort of conversations about chores.

 

00;31;17;01 – 00;31;28;15

Dr. Mona

Right. Well, what do you want to do? What is something that you would find, you know, joy in and to be a part of the family? What are other ways that we can create the system to encourage children to, listen to their inner voice?

 

00;31;28;17 – 00;31;57;15

Katherine Sellery

Yeah. So, you know, this idea of acknowledgment and checking back in with children when a child runs to you and is already learned that your happiness around what they’re doing is contingent upon them doing what you want, right? If that’s already been established, then you may have to have a conversation, a very explicit conversation with your child that says, I notice that you’re really concerned with how I feel.

 

00;31;57;16 – 00;31;58;29

Dr. Mona

 

00;31;59;17 – 00;32;04;10

Katherine Sellery

And and now I’d really like to get in touch with what you’re feeling.

 

00;32;04;12 – 00;32;04;16

Dr. Mona

 

00;32;04;22 – 00;32;26;11

Katherine Sellery

That’s great. So you know maybe you could tell me more about what you’re feeling and what you’re needing and that can help us so that our conversations are not just me and how I feel, but also you staying really connected to what’s going on for you around this. So you’re giving your children explicit permission to say no to you.

 

00;32;26;13 – 00;32;52;22

Katherine Sellery

And, you know, I remember my daughter when she was six years old, she would say to me, mom, I don’t want to do what you tell me to do and feel like I’m losing. And I don’t want to just do what I’m doing and feel like you think you lost. But what are we going to do? Because the paradigm is set up now that somebody wins and somebody loses, it really is not that, you know, everybody’s able to meet their needs.

 

00;32;52;24 – 00;33;13;02

Katherine Sellery

And so this is the fresh conversation. You know, when you were speaking earlier about just your awareness of God. Why am, you know, why am I so fixated on Ryan walking? I would say, well, you’re a conscious parent. So a conscious parent is consciously aware that there’s something in them that is really worried about this.

 

00;33;13;06 – 00;33;14;24

Dr. Mona

 

00;33;14;26 – 00;33;48;12

Katherine Sellery

And so this is the sense of awareness and consciousness that I love to bring to parents. Is that you can begin to no longer be identified or just let that part of you run your show. So if you weren’t consciously aware and there wasn’t some space between you and this part of you that worried about it or concerned or wanting it, then you wouldn’t have the distance internally to have the inner dialog where you can be with that part of you even interested in it, curious about it, which is what I heard you say.

 

00;33;48;12 – 00;34;12;29

Katherine Sellery

It’s like, God, I’m even curious where this is coming from. You even saying out loud like, where is this coming from? So that’s really healthy to me, is where we have that awareness of, you know, gosh, why do I care so much about this? And that’s usually going to generate a really interesting like inner dialog. There’s probably a really big story about whether it’s something that you care about.

 

00;34;13;06 – 00;34;38;00

Dr. Mona

Oh, I know why it is. I can tell you if you want, but I absolutely know. Yeah. And it is and it’s. Yeah. Like so I mean, this is the first time we’re meeting, but Ryan had a stroke when he was born and one of the first things I told my, my, I’m a pediatrician, obviously. So one of the first things I told my fellow pediatricians that were taking care of him in the in the ICU when I found out he was diagnosed with the infant stroke, was, please tell me he’s going to walk one day.

 

00;34;38;16 – 00;34;57;06

Dr. Mona

And I told them that I said something. And actually, that’s that’s so interesting. He said that because I know, I know, that’s why I’m putting pressure on him to walk when it’s I know he’s meeting milestones. Right. But it’s that sort of comment that I go back to when he was born, when I was crying in tears saying, well, I just want him to walk one day.

 

00;34;57;06 – 00;35;16;23

Dr. Mona

Please tell me, God, like I want him to walk because you just don’t know the outcomes of infant stroke. And so it was that, it was that. And so when I, when I’m putting pressure and I’m not like forcing him to but I am in some ways I’m like just I’m practicing and I’m doing it. I’m just standing at him when he falls to the ground, there’s a there’s a moment of disappointment.

 

00;35;16;29 – 00;35;34;21

Dr. Mona

And it’s not he’s obviously doing great. It’s me. Like, why am I so upset that he’s not walking right amount of time? And so yeah, that’s where it comes from. It’s coming from that I want it so bad because it was from what happened from, you know, early on in his story that it’s the sort of for me and again, it’s for me.

 

00;35;34;21 – 00;35;39;01

Dr. Mona

It’s not for him. He’s doing fine. He will not remember the stroke. He will not remember any of this.

 

00;35;39;01 – 00;36;04;05

Katherine Sellery

Well, now that I know your story, I would say, well, it’s a very different thing than what I was talking about. I mean, it’s almost as though this is a trauma response. You know? And so I would say, wow, I completely understand for you, this is a milestone that shows you that he truly has transcended that early, obstacle to his thriving and well being.

 

00;36;04;08 – 00;36;22;25

Katherine Sellery

It’s one of those milestones where, you know, when that happens, you are going to shout it from a mountaintop. Like, this is like my son has truly shown that that that obstacle that happened early in his life is not by any stretch of the imagination going to get in the way.

 

00;36;22;28 – 00;36;38;06

Dr. Mona

But you know what it is. And I am getting I’m getting a little emotional. You saying that because I kind of feel very hurt. And it is that but it’s also that that like, again, me being a conscious parent, understanding that I don’t want to put that pressure on him for the rest of his life. Right. Meaning the fact that I know he had a stroke.

 

00;36;38;06 – 00;36;57;00

Dr. Mona

I am aware of the fact that with every milestone, right, there’s so much that’s going to happen from now till he’s an adult, but it’s going to be this sort of me checking myself and saying, am I putting this pressure that he needs to write, that he needs to be, speaking, that he needs to be doing this because of what happened, you know?

 

00;36;57;00 – 00;37;13;29

Dr. Mona

And I don’t want that for him because I don’t want him to feel like, well, especially when he becomes more aware of me. Right? Like more aware, like in the, you know, older toddler years in school age. I don’t want to put that pressure on him because of what happened to him when he was an infant. And even though he’s, you know, he resolves or fights this obstacle.

 

00;37;13;29 – 00;37;29;08

Dr. Mona

So I love speaking to you about conscious parenting because I think with understanding and with reflecting, it’ll help me kind of be in that place of welcoming his successes, welcoming his failures, and kind of being there with him through all of it, you know? And I think this is so important.

 

00;37;29;14 – 00;38;01;16

Katherine Sellery

Yeah. Well, you know, whenever someone’s had this miracle, right? And every one of the moms and dads listening out there has had this miracle of bringing in a precious life. And what we do with this next, you know, time together with our child is going to be, the best years of our lives. And I think about a lot of the people who end up coming to my course.

 

00;38;01;16 – 00;38;37;14

Katherine Sellery

There have been breakdowns in the relationships. The resentment flows are already well established. The child has fired mom or dad and doesn’t speak to them anymore or speaks to them, but not in that deeply connected like intimate way where you know that we are together on this wild ride, you know, of this lifetime. And I, in a coaching call recently, I said to the family I was working with, you know, my kids are older and I, I want to be sure, like, I have a 21 year old daughter and she’s got a boyfriend.

 

00;38;37;16 – 00;38;38;02

Dr. Mona

Yeah.

 

00;38;38;04 – 00;39;12;03

Katherine Sellery

And she’s got best friends and she’s got so many people that that she could call. I want to stay. I want to stay in the top, like 2 or 3. I want to be there. I still want to be chosen. So what ways can I be as we’re growing up with these precious souls that we get to steward their path, what way can I be with them so that they always know that I will be honest and authentic, but I will never use my power over you.

 

00;39;12;06 – 00;39;40;24

Katherine Sellery

I will guide you. I will speak to you. I will be respectful. I will treat you like my teacher. And every time I bring that to my parenting conversations and I coach the parents in in this spirit, then I can assure you there is so much mutual respect and love that parents are seen as the wise, trusted advisor.

 

00;39;40;26 – 00;40;14;10

Katherine Sellery

If they don’t get fired because they use their power over and they manipulated and controlled through the use of praise, rewards or punishments, if they don’t go down that road, they won’t get fired. If they don’t use their power, they will gain influence. They will continue to be the orchestra conductors in their children’s lives, and the child will continue to stay connected to themselves, and they will know themselves better than anyone unless we get in the way of that.

 

00;40;14;12 – 00;40;30;06

Katherine Sellery

And if a child feels that their love from you is somehow going to be in jeopardy if they don’t be obedient and compliant, some children will choose to disconnect from themselves in order to please you.

 

00;40;30;09 – 00;40;31;01

Dr. Mona

 

00;40;31;04 – 00;40;58;06

Katherine Sellery

And that will cost you in the end your relationship with them, because eventually there will be so much resentment toward you for having put them in an untenable position of having to make that choice, or you’ll find the autonomous child will very early on just say, forget it, I won’t do it. Make me. And then you’re into this terrible spiral of power and control and resistance.

 

00;40;58;08 – 00;41;19;03

Dr. Mona

This is so important. And I’m so grateful for this conversation you’ve given me and my listeners such great, important, thought provoking things that we are going to go home with, right things that we really need to think about as parents, whether we’re in it right now, whether we’re going to be parents, or maybe if we’re going to have, you know, a second child or third child or whatever it may be.

 

00;41;19;11 – 00;41;21;27

Dr. Mona

What would be your message to everyone listening today?

 

00;41;22;12 – 00;42;04;28

Katherine Sellery

I think that, you know, one of the messages is when you’re in the midst of any conversation and it’s not beginning to feel life giving to reconnect and let reconnection and connection drive interactions. So if we let our judgments drive, then we tend to create and culture a family of disconnection. And if you CB behaviors that upset you, then it is for you an opportunity to get connected to well, what about this is upsetting?

 

00;42;05;00 – 00;42;22;04

Katherine Sellery

You know, I find that there are some like key things that are so important because we might have grown up in family cultures where we were made to believe that we could cause someone to feel a certain way. And, I mean, most of us have grown up with mothers and fathers saying, you know, how could you do that?

 

00;42;22;07 – 00;42;44;12

Katherine Sellery

You know, I feel this way. And it’s it’s as though they’re saying the reason they feel this way is because of something I did. And inexplicably, before you know it, a child begins to feel like if they behave this way, mom or dad feels good. If they behave that way, mom or dad feels bad, and that it has to do with them.

 

00;42;44;14 – 00;43;17;21

Katherine Sellery

And so if you have grown up in a culture of blaming other people for how you feel and really been, I don’t know, like, like convinced that other people make you feel, then you will be creating a culture where you’re teaching your children that other people are responsible for how they feel. And all of that is so, so toxic and lacking in so much accountability that people are not responsible for their feelings and able to connect to how they’re feeling to what they need.

 

00;43;17;23 – 00;43;46;05

Katherine Sellery

So this is like like it’s a huge conversation about noticing I have feelings, noticing when I want to blame the catalyst for how I feel so that they will change. I get to feel better. It’s like we have to delink all of that, and it’s such a big deal linking. It’s such a big cleanup effort in families where people are made to feel like they made other people feel certain ways.

 

00;43;46;07 – 00;44;13;10

Katherine Sellery

So you’ve already started to notice it just with one little thing like walking, feelings arise within you. And so you as a conscious parent, were able to connect it to and know exactly what the story was behind that. So that is very healthy. You know that it was a catalyst, but not the cause of how you feel. So that just one tiny example is such a beautiful like takeaway for everybody on this podcast today is to go, well, where am I doing that?

 

00;44;13;10 – 00;44;36;25

Katherine Sellery

Yeah. Where is something in my world, my outer world, catalyzing an internal experience for me that I think is linked to that external thing when actually there’s a catalyst but not a cause. And how do I stay connected to myself so that I can unpack it? So, you know, it’s the world of separation and individuation. It’s this one stage that’s so precious and important.

 

00;44;36;27 – 00;44;53;12

Katherine Sellery

And when children are made to feel that they can’t separate an individual, and if they do, they disappoint you, then you’ve created a really toxic environment for that child, and they’re having to choose between how do I stay connected to myself and not make mom or dad upset with me?

 

00;44;53;13 – 00;45;10;04

Dr. Mona

Well, you have absolutely empowered me, and I am so grateful for us to be able to connect on this episode today. Katherine Sellery, thank you so much for joining me today. And where can people find you? You know your website. I know you mentioned a few times that you have some courses where can people get more information about that?

 

00;45;10;06 – 00;45;36;10

Katherine Sellery

Yeah, fantastic. So conscious Parenting revolution.com is the website. And I have a 90 day parenting reset which people can join any time. Because it’s a rolling admission and I’m, you know, I’ve got a gazillion, courses that you will have access to and that is all prerecorded. But I then coach every week, twice, twice a week.

 

00;45;36;12 – 00;45;44;16

Katherine Sellery

And I get on with everybody who’s in the community and support as they integrate what they’re learning. Because of course, it’s in the integration that the mastery comes.

 

00;45;44;16 – 00;46;05;14

Dr. Mona

Absolutely. And I am going to do my work in terms of linking. I love that word. I think it’s such a great kind of mindset to say, okay, what can I eat? What do I need to drink in terms of my my parenting? And this is such a great conversation. So thank you again. And I’m going to attach, Katherine’s, website, to my show notes so that you can easily access it there.

 

00;46;05;19 – 00;46;08;18

Dr. Mona

And once again, thank you so much for joining us.

 

00;46;08;21 – 00;46;11;16

Katherine Sellery

Thank you so much. This has been fabulous.

 

00;46;11;19 – 00;46;31;06

Dr. Mona

Thank you for tuning in for this week’s episode. I hope you guys enjoyed it. As always, please leave a review. Share it with a friend. Comment on my social media and if you’re not already, follow me at PedsDocTalk on Instagram. Love doing this for all of you. Have a great rest of your week! Take care. Talk to you soon.