On this episode of Monday Mornings with Dr. Mona, I talk to Megan about her four-year-old and his picky eating. I like to call it “selective or preferential eating because picky eating gets a bad connotation. So, let’s reframe how we approach this together.

We discuss:

• Why our biases with meals/food matter
• The power of allowing some control for our children
• Why pressure backfires

In this new format of Monday Mornings with Dr. Mona that began June 2022, I end each episode with three parenting principles. These principles can be used in various parenting situations, but I explain how the three principles I chose apply to a 4-year old who is hesitant to try new foods.

00;00;00;01 – 00;00;30;00

Dr. Mona

Two is when it starts to come out right. Two is when they have that control design. Two is when they start to realize that they have choices, that they’re not some baby anymore. They actually have opinions, and their opinions can sway our choices and our decisions. And it’s up to us, like I said, that create the boundaries we want and respect that they may not love every boundary we create, but that doesn’t mean that they don’t love us.

 

00;00;30;02 – 00;00;56;29

Dr. Mona

Hello and welcome back to the PedsDocTalk Podcast. This podcast continues to grow because of you. You continue to come back. You leave reviews and ratings. So thank you so much for tuning in and being here today. I am doing Monday morning to Doctor Mona a little bit differently. In the past I was having people call in and I was answering solo, but now I’m having parents come on the podcast and talking to them directly about their children or their concerns.

 

00;00;57;01 – 00;01;18;20

Dr. Mona

On this episode, I am talking with Megan about her four year old ace and his picky eating. I don’t love the term picky eating because I think it gets a bad connotation. So let’s reframe it and talk about it as selective eating. This is important to me because how we talk about our child and their behaviors and how we approach mealtimes and parenting really matters in our mindset.

 

00;01;18;24 – 00;01;28;07

Dr. Mona

And you’ll hear me talk to Megan about this with her son, ace. Hey, Megan, thank you so much for joining me today to tell me what is on your mind today as a mom.

 

00;01;28;09 – 00;01;54;28

Megan

So I have for quite a number of years now, my son is four. You know, been working with him on eating it when he was a baby. He ate really well. He would try pretty much anything new. And then as he’s gotten older, I’ve just noticed, like a pickiness with him. He’s very stubborn, very opinionated. And so just trying to get him to introduce new foods and get him to be more comfortable trying new foods and really all of that, it’s been a struggle.

 

00;01;55;00 – 00;02;10;12

Dr. Mona

Well, what you’re talking about, I know you’re not alone, and I know you probably know that, but sometimes it’s very important to continue to hear it because, you know, you’ll be on social media. Your friend, and they’ll say, oh, my kid eats this and that. And you’re like, well, what am I doing? Every kid is so different, like you said, with their preferences there.

 

00;02;10;15 – 00;02;28;08

Dr. Mona

You know, I like to call it selective eating and not picky eating. You know, we all have our preferences and by personality, some children and some adult ones, you know, are very into what they want. Right. If you want something, that’s what he want. And we’ll get into more of that. When do you feel the selective ness began?

 

00;02;28;08 – 00;02;34;26

Dr. Mona

I know you said like, you know, obviously in infancy he was eating what infants eat. But when do you think that this started to kind of show itself for you?

 

00;02;35;12 – 00;02;53;15

Megan

Probably like around his second birthday. He had issues with certain foods, and I started noticing, like, I have always been a very picky eater. When I was a child, I got better as an adult and like I had some texture issues with things. And so I started noticing that the things that he was refusing were very similar in texture.

 

00;02;53;20 – 00;03;12;14

Megan

And then it just started to like, narrow down from there to the point where, like now, he won’t try new things for the most part. And he even if he sees something like trying to explain to him that it’s not what he thinks it is, you know, if it’s a food that he doesn’t quote unquote, like it’s become like even more narrowed as time goes on.

 

00;03;12;17 – 00;03;33;23

Dr. Mona

And I’m sure there’s obviously many reasons for this response, but what gives you the most worry or hesitation right now, like at this moment of this recording, like what’s giving you the most frustration? Is it the meal time, like the struggle, the power struggle? Is it that you’re worried that he’s not getting enough? Like, what is it that’s really like as you, as a mom, like eating you up like, oh, I you know, it’s really hard for me to see this.

 

00;03;33;25 – 00;03;59;11

Megan

It’s hard for me because I know he’ll tell me that he’s done eating. And from a nutrition and, like, sleep standpoint is not a great sleeper to begin with. And so if I want to tell him, like, hey, you know, when you’re done with your food, tell me when you’re done and like, I’ll believe you, but I can’t really do that with him because he doesn’t necessarily always finish eating and then he’s not hungry, like to wake up in the middle of the night and that restful sleep schedule.

 

00;03;59;11 – 00;04;13;16

Megan

And so, you know, I want him to be eating well and, you know, eating properly so that he’s sleeping well and, like, holistically, you know, doing well with nutrition and sleep and all the things that you need to be a functioning human being.

 

00;04;13;18 – 00;04;30;02

Dr. Mona

Oh, absolutely. And do you see a correlation between when he doesn’t eat dinner and then he’s waking up more? Because I know you said that already. He has not been like the best of sleepers, quote unquote. But do you see that? Yes. If he doesn’t eat dinner, there’s going to be more waking. Or is that just kind of random?

 

00;04;30;05 – 00;04;44;08

Megan

If he doesn’t eat dinner, he’s going to wake up. And then like generally he’ll wake up and you can kind of get him back to sleep. But if he’s hungry, then it’s like a whole thing to try to get him to go back to sleep because, like, he wants to snack in the middle of the night and then he wants this, that, and the other thing.

 

00;04;44;10 – 00;04;59;14

Megan

And, you know, at a certain point, generally, if he’s eaten, I’ll say, okay, well, you have to wait until breakfast. That’s when we’re going to have our next meal. But yeah, know if I know he hasn’t eaten. Now all of a sudden I’m sitting there questioning, does he really need to eat? Like I don’t know.

 

00;04;59;20 – 00;05;18;17

Dr. Mona

That’s a great question. So it’s kind of obviously we understand that there’s this respect of a child’s hunger cues, right. Like obviously there could be a reality. Absolutely that he’s hungry for. He’s telling you that he’s hungry. And I do believe that. But there’s also that balance of this sort of kind of behavioral understanding that we do not need to eat in the middle of the night.

 

00;05;18;17 – 00;05;33;05

Dr. Mona

Right? Like as adults and stuff, we don’t need to eat in the middle of the night, like our bodies are trained that we sleep. And then, yes, the first thing in the morning, you are going to get that amazing breakfast and giving him some power and control over what the breakfast is, as I think something that can be really exciting.

 

00;05;33;05 – 00;05;50;10

Dr. Mona

I’m not sure I would like to know. Like what maybe you’ve done so far to encourage new foods and then I’ll have a follow up question about what’s happening at nighttime. But what have you done so far for in those meal moments? You said when he’s more selective, in encouraging variety or even trying to.

 

00;05;50;12 – 00;06;14;17

Megan

So, I mean, I’m a terrible proponent of bribery, like I really am. And it doesn’t have to be food bribery. Like I’ll try to negotiate with him for anything. And I think that’s definitely like the lawyer in this. Like my first step is to negotiate everything. So, you know, I will say, you know, okay, if you do this or if you take a bite, you can do this, that or the other thing, you just try a bite.

 

00;06;14;19 – 00;06;40;06

Megan

So it’s a lot of negotiation. And then, you know, I’ve tried withholding things that he likes because of it. You know, just seeing if that works too. But it really doesn’t seem to bother him as much. And, you know, he definitely responds way better to the positive reinforcement. So I don’t really do that as much. But, you know, definitely just offering him things that are new and different and then just, you know, trying to encourage him as best I can to take a bite and showing him.

 

00;06;40;06 – 00;06;43;17

Megan

But we like it or, you know, things like that.

 

00;06;43;19 – 00;07;00;19

Dr. Mona

And I will follow up on that response. But then the second question I had is when he wakes up in the middle of the night, what is happening in the middle of the night when he wakes up? Is it more on the standpoint that you’re going to say, hey, breakfast, you’re not getting anything, you’re just going to eat up breakfast or what is happening in the middle of the night.

 

00;07;00;19 – 00;07;02;25

Dr. Mona

Wake up when he did not eat dinner.

 

00;07;02;27 – 00;07;14;20

Megan

Generally I’ll tell him, like I mean, if it’s a normal night, I’ll tell him we had dinner and now you know we’re going to have breakfast in a couple of hours. You really need to go back to sleep, you know, wait until breakfast. We don’t eat in the middle of the night, and I try to stay really firm with that.

 

00;07;14;22 – 00;07;15;01

Dr. Mona

 

00;07;15;03 – 00;07;35;22

Megan

He does have some very bad nights where I mean there’s just crying and sobbing and like just uncontrollably screaming and crying and those times you know I think that becomes kind of difficult to figure out what the best course of action is. So he’s not sleeping. And either, you know, I can’t like put him to bed and walk out of the room either.

 

00;07;35;22 – 00;07;54;07

Megan

So when it gets into those situations, you know, there are the occasions where I’ll be like, if he’s that starving, maybe I’ll try to give him a little something. But, you know, and I do say the caveat while I’m doing it, you know, listen, I know that, you know, you’re telling me you’re really, really hungry. I understand that I’m going to give you a little something, but this is not going to be the norm.

 

00;07;54;09 – 00;08;10;21

Megan

You know, this is an exception that we’re making right now because you’re telling me you’re really hungry and I can see you’re really upset. But it’s definitely more challenging on those nights where he’s really having a tough time. And I know he’s just screaming and crying and there’s nothing I can say or do to play him that boy in.

 

00;08;10;23 – 00;08;25;18

Dr. Mona

Yeah. And I mean, if those you could have perfect. Like if those nights are happening like the exception and not the rule meaning like 20% of the time, right. You’ve heard this in parenting world like the 8020 rule. I think it’s like 20% of the time that you’re giving him, snack in the middle of the night or something, then.

 

00;08;25;23 – 00;08;38;25

Dr. Mona

Okay. But the carefulness of that is that I know also from personal experience that it can easily become the rule and the exception if we’re not very consistent. So, you know, the first thing that comes to mind is as a parent, and you have a partner. Yes.

 

00;08;38;27 – 00;08;39;13

Megan

My son. Yeah.

 

00;08;39;17 – 00;08;58;03

Dr. Mona

So whoever’s there, right, whether it’s partner or nanny, grandparent, whoever, there needs to be consistency in what we’re deciding to do with the night times and then also what we’re deciding to do with the meal times. And I’ll, you know, I’ll get into that. But whether it’s going to be you did that amazingly, where you’re saying, hey, I see that you’re really upset right now.

 

00;08;58;03 – 00;09;15;04

Dr. Mona

I see that you really want something to eat, and we are going to get that when breakfast comes. Right? Like being very consistent with that or deciding like, hey, I’m going to break this one night. I do like consistency. Although you have a four year old where I do believe that some leeway is easier, meaning if it was like a two year old.

 

00;09;15;12 – 00;09;33;22

Dr. Mona

Consistency I think is extremely more important for the repetition. Four year old maybe can understand a little bit that, okay, this is a one off, but I want to watch that. Like I want to watch that. If he continues to do it more often and more often, then we have to scale back and be like, hey, look, this is really important.

 

00;09;33;22 – 00;09;52;28

Dr. Mona

I think you did a wonderful job. You said it earlier that he responds well to positive reinforcement. Right. Like I’m just really proud of you for listening to your belly in the middle, you know, before bedtime and filling it with what you want. But we are going to eat breakfast when it’s time I’m here for you. You’re going to lay down, you’re going to go to bed and then giving him some control for the morning.

 

00;09;52;28 – 00;09;59;06

Dr. Mona

So you allow him to choose what he eats for breakfast. Yes. Okay. So you allow him. I mean, that’s within reason.

 

00;09;59;06 – 00;10;00;00

Megan

Yes. Yes.

 

00;10;00;00 – 00;10;19;09

Dr. Mona

Within reason. Like you give him a couple options or something. Yeah. You know, children really need control and especially, you know, not even just children. Adults like control to and reasonable control. Right. Obviously you’re the parent. So choosing between you know hey what do you want for breakfast. And reiterating that in that moment you know like, hey, I know that you get to decide what you want to eat tomorrow.

 

00;10;19;09 – 00;10;35;22

Dr. Mona

I’m, you know, I’m being very consistent with that. You know, that’s going to be something that’s really, really helpful. Now, I think we have to backtrack a little bit to the meal so that maybe we can get the meals going. So this is not happening at nighttime, right? That’s obviously very important to me, but I wanted to address both.

 

00;10;35;29 – 00;10;57;11

Dr. Mona

So you are doing so many things that are great. But you know, obviously exposure is part of this. But the no pressure situation is something that I do want to get into a little bit more because pressure with children looks very different than sometimes we think, like sometimes parents think it’s only verbal pressure, but it’s also the nonverbal cues that we give our child.

 

00;10;57;11 – 00;11;15;09

Dr. Mona

It’s the eyes, it’s the stares, it’s the come back here. It’s the coaxing, it’s the bribing. It’s all of that. You ever mentioned that you you did some of that. Not to say that we can’t get him back to exploring, but it’s really in your mindset thing. And it’s really hard to do this because of that cycle of eating that you’re saying to me, right.

 

00;11;16;06 – 00;11;40;07

Dr. Mona

But it’s really important to drive this home like, and I’m telling it to do it very consistently for like ten days. And I’m not saying that he’s going to eat everything. Okay. I’m not saying that at all. But the nonverbal cues definitely need to be there to where there’s really no dragging him back. And you’re making it fun and playful and you’re eating in front of him and you’re saying, yeah, I’m having a bite, but you’re not saying, put this in your mouth, try it in your mouth.

 

00;11;40;13 – 00;11;58;03

Dr. Mona

Here. Try this, try this. There’s nothing like that. There’s no. Hey, come back to the table. There’s no like, hey, if you eat this, I’m going to give you cookies. Because all of that is pressure in a way, right? Yeah. And I always describe it if, like me and you were at dinner and you weren’t eating something because you weren’t hungry that day, and I just kept staring at you and saying like, hey, why aren’t you eating?

 

00;11;58;03 – 00;12;17;06

Dr. Mona

Why aren’t you eating? Come back. Eat this, eat this. It’s not something that we would love. And the child is going to be more likely to push it back. I’m also very big on reverse psychology, okay? Especially with eating. And what that looks like with eating is okay. You know, you don’t have to eat it. I’m just going to take a like I’m just going to taste it right now.

 

00;12;17;06 – 00;12;35;01

Dr. Mona

Oh this is actually really interesting. Oh it’s not so good. And eating it it works really good with like younger children. But I find that like making it so matter of fact and making it no pressure. But also adding in that reverse psychology is almost like, for me, a form of humor. Like you’re just like, okay, well, you know, I’m just going to take a break.

 

00;12;35;01 – 00;12;49;24

Dr. Mona

Oh, wow. This actually tastes really good. And you’re almost making this a low stress situation for you that you are not fazed by the lack of eating. Do you ever feel like you show? I mean, maybe not. Do you ever feel like you show frustration in any way when he doesn’t eat?

 

00;12;49;26 – 00;12;57;19

Megan

Oh, totally. Like I’m not great at masking it. I understand, and I need that. I need to work on that a problem. But yes.

 

00;12;57;22 – 00;13;20;01

Dr. Mona

And listen, that is completely normal. I mean, I want to normalize that because myself and my husband, my husband is way more of the frustrated one when during meal times, when he doesn’t eat. And I notice that my son eats less with him. Okay. And it’s a psychological thing. There’s a lot of psychology behind how we approach meal times, and so much of it is the pressure situation.

 

00;13;20;01 – 00;13;43;04

Dr. Mona

So much of it is how we are going to approach that meal in that moment, and that coming into that meal and leaving that meal right. It’s the okay, here’s to the meal. It’s not making much of a fuss of it during the meal, but it’s also when the meal is done and he ate two bites, right? Or he ate 20 bites, however many bites, it’s saying, hey, great job listening to your belly.

 

00;13;43;05 – 00;14;01;25

Dr. Mona

Great job listening to your body. And are you full? Yes. And it’s that repetition of are you full? Yes. Are you not? No. Like you’re really just getting into the head that I’m telling you that I want you to listen to your body and listen to your hunger cues. Do you also introduce. I’m sure you do like a variety of like at the meal.

 

00;14;01;29 – 00;14;18;12

Dr. Mona

I know he has some favorites. You’re introducing his favorite. Plus something that’s more new, correct? Yeah, yeah. So I’ll usually say yeah, yeah. Is there ever a situation where he’ll only eat like the same food and not touch the other thing? Or have you ever had a situation where he does touch the new food because of, say, food?

 

00;14;18;12 – 00;14;29;24

Megan

Was there no, he won’t touch. Yeah. He’ll generally finish that other the seafood and then he’ll tell me that he is hungry for a snack, but he’s not hungry for what else is on his plate.

 

00;14;29;27 – 00;14;45;19

Dr. Mona

So in that moment, if that happens, it’s also very important to say, hey, look, you have this here. Just say it was like pizza and vegetables, okay? Like a little pizza and like some green beans. Would you like more of what’s on your plate and it’s again that repetition and that consistency. No pressure of do you want more on your plate?

 

00;14;45;23 – 00;15;00;20

Dr. Mona

No, ma’am. I want a cookie. Well, right now we’re not going to get a cookie, but maybe we can have a cookie tomorrow with your lunch or something like you. And we have to. Don’t ever give blank promises. You have to say to yourself, okay, when am I going to give him that cookie and follow through? Yeah. Be consistent.

 

00;15;00;20 – 00;15;18;07

Dr. Mona

Follow through is so important to me. Like and it’s them from a young age that if you’re going to promise your child something or hey, you know, tomorrow morning you can decide and it’s okay to introduce a cookie, I’m okay if you start introducing to say he loves like a bar, like a breakfast bar, like putting the breakfast bar with the dinner next to the other food.

 

00;15;18;13 – 00;15;35;00

Dr. Mona

I get it that he may only eat that breakfast bar if it’s introduced there. There’s no more breakfast bar coming if that was what was presented, right. That one breakfast bar is there. Just so you really want a cookie, you don’t want to ever, like, have him, like, you know, he doesn’t eat the meal and then he complains.

 

00;15;35;04 – 00;15;57;11

Dr. Mona

And then because of the complaining, we hand him the cookie, right? Because children are extremely smart, and they learn that if they cry or whine or target our emotions, and then we give them what they wanted, we have now affirm that this is how we get what we want. Rather, I’m okay with you putting the cookie on the table with the meal and saying, here’s what it is.

 

00;15;57;15 – 00;16;12;11

Dr. Mona

And if they want more cookies. I mean, I dealt with this two nights ago. I baked cookies with Ryan and he wanted a cookie, didn’t touch anything else. I’m like, well, this is our cookie. Like, and this is all the cookies we’re getting. If you’re store hungry, you’re going to fill your belly with what’s on your plate. And then we the next meal is the next meal.

 

00;16;12;17 – 00;16;15;17

Dr. Mona

My last thing is, do you guys do bedtime snacks?

 

00;16;16;03 – 00;16;22;08

Megan

So we don’t generally do that time snack. We used to and it got excessive. And.

 

00;16;22;11 – 00;16;23;09

Dr. Mona

Okay.

 

00;16;23;11 – 00;16;40;14

Megan

You know, that was, I want to say like a year or so ago, we were, you know, like before bed. We had kind of had, I guess, like a, left over from the time of, you know, your bedtime bottle. We had the bedtime snack. But then it was like, okay, well, you get like, you know, I gave him to, I don’t know, fig or something like that.

 

00;16;40;19 – 00;16;56;05

Megan

Yeah. Before bed, you know, something that was like eating, not like the best food, I’m sure. But, you know, something was, like, decent. And then I thought, we keep him full. And then it was, I want more cookies, you know? That’s all I want. And so it became like, a whole thing. And then he would wake us up.

 

00;16;56;11 – 00;17;02;27

Megan

He wouldn’t go to bed. He would ask for more snacks a thousand times. So we started cleaning that out.

 

00;17;02;29 – 00;17;20;22

Dr. Mona

Yeah. And that’s I was going to say that is, I think a bedtime snack is a reasonable thing unless we are starting to see that it’s, you know, going the other way where they’re just not eating anything and then they’re, you know, and the bottom stack you choose is also very important because you want to make sure that it is something that’s not exciting.

 

00;17;20;22 – 00;17;38;19

Dr. Mona

Like I usually try to recommend not having it be something that comes in a wrapper. So like either a banana, obviously I know the banana is kind of interesting, like a banana with peanut butter, but not something. That’s because wrapper items are packaged food that they are or they love already, right? So they’re going to hold off for the package food.

 

00;17;38;19 – 00;17;40;05

Dr. Mona

And I understand that I have an.

 

00;17;40;05 – 00;17;43;26

Megan

Animal with that. Yeah. So yeah definitely holding off for the better. Yes.

 

00;17;44;03 – 00;18;05;01

Dr. Mona

So a Fig Newton in nature I love Fig Newtons. But if you make a does that makes it like it’s almost like a again it’s a psychology thing that this is coming from a package that oh this is yummy. Yes. Even making if you were to make your own take Newton from the refrigerator, or a banana with peanut butter or a piece of toast with, like a little bit of avocado spread or a little bit of peanut butter spread, right.

 

00;18;05;01 – 00;18;25;22

Dr. Mona

Like a little peanut butter toast or something. Just one you don’t want to, like, fill them up where they then realize that they’re not going to, you know, they’ll get that if they don’t eat their dinner. But I’m okay with you thinking about instituting it again because he is older and again. And the reason I’m recommending it is because you have a child who has the nighttime workings, and you’re telling me that it’s truly because of that, right?

 

00;18;25;22 – 00;18;44;15

Dr. Mona

Because he’s saying, mommy, I’m hungry. I get that like, it’s hard for us to completely say, okay, well, you ate one bite and now you’re not eating anything, but there really needs to be of that, you know, consistency of saying, okay, well, am I going to do this bedtime snack? And if I do this bedtime snack, I have to make sure it’s something extremely boring but still filling.

 

00;18;45;02 – 00;19;01;28

Dr. Mona

And there needs to be consistency in that, right? Like if he starts to complain, you can be like, hey, like you’re telling me that you’re hungry. This is what we’re going to have for the snack. If you want it, take it. And if not, you know, we’ll have breakfast in the morning and then, continue. Always, always to highlight the right things.

 

00;19;01;28 – 00;19;21;14

Dr. Mona

Right? Like so when he does eat something, or he goes to bed the whole night and doesn’t wake up, even if he had a good dinner or whatever. Okay, I want you to, when he wakes up to say, hey, I noticed that you slept the whole night and that’s really awesome. You must feel so rested. And it’s a very matter of fact statement.

 

00;19;21;14 – 00;19;39;07

Dr. Mona

And you said children thrive on positive reinforcement. So even if he comes to the dinner table and has three bites, right, highlighting that, hey, is I’m really proud of you for sitting down at the table and sitting with us today. Like, that was awesome. Like you didn’t do that the other day. And I can see that you learn from that.

 

00;19;39;07 – 00;19;59;08

Dr. Mona

And that’s really cool. You should be so proud of yourself. You know that. You sat with us at the dinner table and you looked at your cauliflower, or you even tasted your cauliflower like having him be involved in more of the prep of the food, you know, in the kitchen, like touching the food, all of that. And I think you’ve probably heard that too, can really help with these four year olds so they don’t look at these things as fearful.

 

00;19;59;08 – 00;20;17;20

Dr. Mona

You know, they do create some preferences. And a lot of it can be because of the fear of the food, or it’s something new and allowing him to just be in the kitchen when you’re making it, or having control over making it, having control when you all go grocery shopping. I know it’s in a pandemic that we’re recording this, but like taking him and saying, hey, look like, what do you want to try?

 

00;20;17;23 – 00;20;46;07

Dr. Mona

The control aspect, like allowing the choice and control can really help in like again, the baby steps. We need to get more progress in picky eating, selective eating, sleep, all of this stuff with parenting. None of this stuff is going to be you do this and then tomorrow he’s going to be an amazing eater. It is. Like I said, so much of it is is the consistency, but our mindset in approaching it in a way that you are not depriving him of anything here.

 

00;20;46;07 – 00;21;02;22

Dr. Mona

You know, when he wakes up in the middle of the night and you are in those moments that you tell him, you know what, sweetie, I hear you. I see that you might be hungry, but I know that you can wait till morning. I, as a pediatrician, know that he can wait till morning. You are not depriving him of anything.

 

00;21;02;24 – 00;21;19;18

Dr. Mona

You know when you’re teaching him about waiting for the hunger. It’s different if it’s in the daytime, right? If it’s in the daytime and he’s saying he’s hungry and he hasn’t had a meal for six hours, that is deprivation, correct? Like you have to feed your child meals and snacks and offer. But it’s the offering. That’s the thing.

 

00;21;19;22 – 00;21;38;22

Dr. Mona

Overnight, no four year old needs to eat in the middle of the night, and I encourage you to keep at that. And when you are feeling bad and saying, oh my gosh, like, how could I even not feed him or do that? Really remembering that even through the being upset, even through that, like he is going to make it till morning, like he will make it till morning and just going to be fine.

 

00;21;38;28 – 00;21;54;17

Dr. Mona

And you’re not depriving him of nurturing or love or nutrition because when you look at it from like just the understanding we don’t eat in the middle of the night, that’s just not what we do for a four year old or an older child. And you are allowing that calm understanding of, I am going to give you what you want for breakfast.

 

00;21;54;17 – 00;22;18;02

Dr. Mona

Like you get to decide. And that is the meal he gets inside every day. If that’s what your family decides to do, all the other meals, are you deciding or giving him two options? But that allows him some control. But it’s something to kind of consider. You know, all of these things are things that I think will be important to consider based on what you’re seeing, you know, and kind of coming into like a, a pattern that works for his temperament.

 

00;22;18;02 – 00;22;33;16

Dr. Mona

The nighttime, you know, it’s a messy picture because of the nighttime, too. You know, this is not so straightforward to say, okay, just don’t feed him and it’s fine. You might have to implore a boring bedtime snack, nothing in a wrapper. And you may have to consider what I’m mentioning that even with the bedtime snack, if he says no.

 

00;22;33;19 – 00;22;49;02

Dr. Mona

Hey, I hear that you want that Fig Newton. But maybe we can have the Fig Newton for your morning snack tomorrow. How does that sound? No, mommy. No, no, no, I hear you. But we can’t have it right now for bedtime snack. Your option is this banana and a peanut butter. And then when he wakes up, it’s saying, I hear you.

 

00;22;49;04 – 00;23;07;08

Dr. Mona

And that is hard for us. I am never, ever sit here and tell you that it’s easy in those moments to say, okay, well, forget it. It’s not. I know as a mom myself, I’ve been there and sat with, you know, with Ryan, when I’m like, Ryan, I get it. Like, you can’t have this right now. But it’s that consistency that I think he’s going to finally understand.

 

00;23;07;08 – 00;23;20;10

Dr. Mona

When you and your partner come up with a plan that says, okay, are we going to offer this bedtime snack? Are we going to go in and give him something in the middle of the night? Or are we going to continue to verbalize and get him to the morning and be consistent with that for ten days to two weeks?

 

00;23;20;17 – 00;23;38;13

Dr. Mona

You know, it takes about two weeks for me to see change with anything. And again, some sort of change, not like overnight, but like something that you’ll say, oh my gosh, like he actually fell asleep or he actually made it to breakfast and he understands. But if we continue to say, okay, fine, here’s a snack or okay, let me give you the Fig Newton or okay, here, let’s have this.

 

00;23;38;17 – 00;23;56;13

Dr. Mona

Then the repetition and consistency won’t be there for him to get the boundary right, to understand that you empathize with him like you are not going anywhere. You understand what his needs are. You understand that breakfast is going to come. But it’s been very understanding of the boundary as well, which is going to come through to him as well.

 

00;23;56;19 – 00;23;58;15

Dr. Mona

With that repetition.

 

00;23;58;17 – 00;24;00;25

Megan

Yeah. No, that makes sense.

 

00;24;00;27 – 00;24;29;17

Dr. Mona

This is hard stuff because as a mom, like we have so much, so much on our plate and I know your work, you work right? Like you’re a leader. Yeah. And I know that the number one place that we feel stressed is meals. Okay? I mean, I know this not even just from who I talked to my office and the podcast and my DMs or my social media, but my as me, myself, like it has taken me a lot myself to get to this point where I have to also accept that I can make this amazing meal, and he will only eat one bite and he will fight me, and I have to let go

 

00;24;29;17 – 00;24;47;04

Dr. Mona

of the fight. My husband jokes that and it’s. I actually think it makes a lot of sense. Parenting is all a game of chicken. Like who is your first? Okay. And I should quote that. And I think if you understand, I mean, obviously I’ve listened to this whole episode for everyone listening, the philosophy of that is who is going to be the one who came first in this power struggle?

 

00;24;47;04 – 00;25;05;28

Dr. Mona

And it doesn’t have to be. This power struggle doesn’t have to be this argument or this yell, you know, like, stop, do it. It’s okay. Like here, this is what’s going to happen. This is what we’re going to do, and this is what it is. And I get it. If you don’t like the boundary, but just because he doesn’t like the boundary doesn’t mean he doesn’t love you, right?

 

00;25;05;28 – 00;25;22;18

Dr. Mona

Like obviously he knows that you’re there for him. Obviously he knows that you’re going to give him breakfast. Obviously he knows that you guys nourish him. And I think it’s very important to hear that when you have a picky eater or selective eater, because we feel we’re not providing for them when 100% you’re providing for them, you know, you are you’re you’re giving him the opportunities.

 

00;25;22;18 – 00;25;46;22

Dr. Mona

You’re giving him all those moments that he has to be exposed to food, the no pressure, the in the kitchen, maybe prepping meals, all of that stuff and the options and control. And it’s letting go of that control our end that I start to see the best results. That and I know that is really hard to come to an understanding of saying, I gotta let it go and just understand that I’m doing everything I can for him.

 

00;25;46;22 – 00;26;03;08

Dr. Mona

Because you are, and I hope you, I hope you remember that anytime you’re feeling frustrated and that you just want to just cave in, just say yes. I’m doing the best for my child. I’m providing him the food and he’s going to decide what he does with it. We have our bedtime snack. If that’s something we want to do, we have the nighttime.

 

00;26;03;08 – 00;26;19;12

Dr. Mona

We’ll deal with that. I hope we can lean in towards not providing him anything in the middle of the night. I rather do a bedtime snack than allow snacks in the middle of the night, because that’s the last of the things that I want. The bedtime snack is fine, okay, but we’re trying to not have that because that will affect your guys’s sleep.

 

00;26;19;12 – 00;26;27;08

Dr. Mona

And that’s a whole cycle of everything, right? And that’s why I would love to remedy. I like to kind of nix first, if we’re going to nix anything, you know.

 

00;26;27;11 – 00;26;45;26

Megan

No, I yeah. You know, I make a joke that when he was younger, he would start getting cranky around a certain time, and then I would get cranky too. And like, we would take each other. It sounds so stupid because I’m, like, way too old to be sniping at, like, a two and three year old, but like, we were just so annoyed and so hangry because we were waiting for my husband to get home to have dinner with him.

 

00;26;46;04 – 00;27;02;09

Megan

And I realized, like, both of us are hangry, we’re the same person. And like, we can’t wait for him to come home to eat dinner. Like it’s just not a feasible thing. But you know, I can see his mood is totally different. If he sleeps, you know, and he eats properly and all of that, like if he gets enough in the system.

 

00;27;02;11 – 00;27;16;07

Megan

Whereas when he, like, resent because he’s trying to be a little finicky and holding out for something better, you know, his personality is much different too. So. Right. You know, I think it just is like a vicious cycle, you know? It is. Yeah.

 

00;27;16;09 – 00;27;32;17

Dr. Mona

Look, eating sleep and behavior like tantrums, eating and sleeping are all connected, right? Yeah. A child is not eating. They’re going to have more tantrums. It’s going to lead to more refusal with eating. If they’re not eating, it’s going to lead to more tantrums and sleep issues. The behavior, it’s all connected. And we know he can eat right.

 

00;27;32;17 – 00;27;48;15

Dr. Mona

Like I mean there’s a huge difference for me. Like if I have a child who texture wise, like he can’t physically eat, then we need to see a feeding therapist for like the process of textures and stuff. So we know we’re dealing with a strong willed four year old, which is very hard. I know my son’s on that path.

 

00;27;48;16 – 00;28;07;12

Dr. Mona

He’s very strong willed. Okay. He’s two and a half, but like, man, he’s like very opinionated. He wants what he wants. And I’m like, you know, it’s all these strategies I’m trying to do now, which is when you said earlier, two is when it starts to come out. Right. Two is when they have that control desire. Two is when they start to realize that they have choices, that they’re not some baby anymore.

 

00;28;07;12 – 00;28;22;24

Dr. Mona

They actually have opinions, and their opinions can sway our choices and our decisions. And it’s up to us, like I said, to create the boundaries we want and respect that they may not love every boundary we create, but that doesn’t mean that they don’t love us, you know?

 

00;28;22;24 – 00;28;35;22

Megan

Yeah, yeah. He’s just he’s very strong willed and I love that he has an opinion about everything. But there are times where, you know, it’s just very hard for him to have an opinion about everything and especially with food.

 

00;28;35;25 – 00;28;50;14

Dr. Mona

Yeah. And remember to utilize the times where he is calm and he’s smart. I know your child is very smart because a lot of smart kids are going to do this right. They get it. They understand the power and the control and it’s fine. I love it’s hard when we have a strong willed child, but we have to also respect that.

 

00;28;50;14 – 00;29;07;27

Dr. Mona

That’s a fire like that’s a fire in them that is, you know, serve them well in some way. And I know, I know hard I know it’s very hard. But when he is in those moments of where you guys are just sitting and playing or, you know, again, like I said, the calling out of the things that he’s doing, good kids so much on their day here.

 

00;29;08;04 – 00;29;27;16

Dr. Mona

Okay, you’re not eating. Eat this, do this. Right. So I want to try to limit that. But also when you’re limiting that, raise all the volume on all the things that he is doing really great. You know, I really saw that you even if it’s not related to meals, like I said earlier. Right. Like, even if it’s just so that he recognizes that he is this powerful, like, amazing kid, if you will, that is doing a lot of good things.

 

00;29;27;16 – 00;29;48;09

Dr. Mona

And that just because you’re telling him or, you know, he didn’t eat his meal, that you still obviously love him and that it’s not defining him, and that he is this amazing kid that has choices and options in whatever else is related. Right? Like to say he made a choice of like choosing a certain shoe color, right? Like I want to wear my red shoes with this outfit, you can say, wow, that looks really great.

 

00;29;48;10 – 00;30;06;07

Dr. Mona

You should be really proud of yourself that you dress yourself today like I’m really proud of you. Like applauding the things that he does have control over that is good. Does that make sense? Like the things that you’re like, well, like you dress yourself or you, you know, you were really nice to a friend, like then it really puts in their brain that, yeah, I have control over my emotions.

 

00;30;06;07 – 00;30;22;19

Dr. Mona

I have control over the things that I do in my life. And I mean, I have control in every aspect of my life. And my mom and dad, they’re the ones who decide what I do in this, you know, in terms of boundaries. But they recognize that I am this awesome person, you know? And I think all of it is a big picture that I think can really help.

 

00;30;22;21 – 00;30;30;05

Megan

Yeah. So I think that’s great. And getting him, you know, confident in other decisions I think the idea.

 

00;30;30;08 – 00;30;43;20

Dr. Mona

Yeah. Well look this is amazing I love talking about this. I can’t believe we talked for what like 25 minutes or whatever. It was just like this is amazing. What would be some of like the I guess some things that maybe you can continue working on or add to the plate here.

 

00;30;44;02 – 00;30;59;26

Megan

So I think I’m going to continue doing the, you know, introducing new foods. I know I’ve, you know, lately I’ve kind of been like, sometimes I’ll just cave and just give him, like chicken nuggets for dinner, but I think I’m gonna, you know, make sure that I’m really adding those to other foods as well for him to try.

 

00;30;59;29 – 00;31;18;27

Megan

And then obviously thinking about, you know, a nighttime snack that is not super fun so that he’s not, you know, holding out for it like he was before. But maybe, you know, just in case he does have one of those days where he decides that his staple food is not a food he eats anymore, because I feel like that’s a new four year old thing that I’m enjoying.

 

00;31;18;27 – 00;31;41;09

Megan

Yeah. And yeah. And you’re like, what are you talking about? You’ve literally asked for that. Okay, cool. And then, you know, I think also, you know, just being, you know, really positive about the things that he’s doing and not controlling every aspect of it. I definitely am a freak, and I know that, and I own it, and I have to just let go sometimes.

 

00;31;41;09 – 00;32;04;17

Megan

And that has been the hardest part of parenting for me. Like you’re playing with it. Wrong with the phrase I used to use when he was a baby. And I hear you’re so hurt. Yeah. And so I think just, like letting go of that and letting him be and, like, praising him when he does, you know, even, like something know, like you said, a simple it’s just like the days that he sits at the dinner table, like, I don’t think I make enough of a big deal out of that.

 

00;32;04;19 – 00;32;13;19

Megan

And then I do make a big deal out of, like, him trying to run away or climb on the chair or some of the other things. So maybe it’s shifting that focus and like letting go a little.

 

00;32;13;22 – 00;32;34;26

Dr. Mona

I love it. I mean, I know that you’re going to see change, especially with how you approach it. Accepting that and understanding that was a hard part for me to like. I also like I laughed when you said about that you’re doing it wrong. Like when Ryan was an infant, I used to get so frustrated when he wasn’t reaching certain milestones in the infancy age, and I had to step back and say, what am I doing here?

 

00;32;34;29 – 00;32;55;00

Dr. Mona

A lot of that came from his own medical issues of like having a stroke and seizures that I. I felt this pressure that he needed to roll and walk and, and I was like, wow, I’m putting a lot of pressure on this infant who’s treating infants. I mean, he’s doing what he naturally is capable of doing. And I, I want to say this because I’m and again, it’s not diminishing the fact that I understand how difficult this is.

 

00;32;55;00 – 00;33;16;24

Dr. Mona

Like, I know how hard it is to have a child who doesn’t eat. But I want to also remind you that he does know how to eat like he knows, and he’s going to get that back. And also remember that you don’t even have a child who eats everything. Yes, you want to do variety, don’t get me wrong, but I’m okay if he’s not eating like shrimp and salmon and all these fancy things that should not be your goal.

 

00;33;16;24 – 00;33;31;05

Dr. Mona

Your goal is variety exposure. Your goal is no pressure. Your goal is everything that you just mentioned and really lowering your expectation a little bit and being pleasantly surprised is going to go a really long way. And I think you’re going to see I think you’re going to see a lot of benefit from that for sure. Yeah.

 

00;33;31;10 – 00;33;42;23

Megan

No, I think this is all like things like that aren’t crazy difficult to do. It’s just like mindset shifting. A lot of it. And, you know, a little bit of a change of how we present things, which I think will be helpful.

 

00;33;42;26 – 00;33;44;25

Dr. Mona

Awesome. Thank you, Megan, for coming on today.

 

00;33;44;26 – 00;33;47;16

Megan

Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.

 

00;33;47;18 – 00;34;11;11

Dr. Mona

So, Megan and I talked about some very important principles. And with these Monday mornings with Doctor Mona episodes, I want to tie it in with three parenting principles. And as you can remember, these parenting principles can apply to many different situations. But let’s talk about my three principles for this episode, about picky eating with a four year old and the concerns that Megan had with her son is number one.

 

00;34;11;11 – 00;34;31;19

Dr. Mona

We have to control our expectations and reflect on our biases. It’s really important to remember why we are frustrated and what are insecure. These are perhaps we were also very selective in our eating, or we are a very selective or picky eater. We may be concerned are they gaining enough weight? We may be concerned about what other people are saying.

 

00;34;31;19 – 00;34;56;02

Dr. Mona

It’s very important to understand why are we concerned when they’re not eating? And if you recall, I ask Megan, what are your concerns at this moment with why your child s is not eating? Getting into the whys can really help us make breakthroughs with our mindset, especially when it comes to meal time. There is a psychology behind parenting, and there’s a psychology around the mealtime where the more we push, the more they’re going to resist.

 

00;34;56;07 – 00;35;16;01

Dr. Mona

And when it comes to expectations, you know, we focus so much on them eating everything. But I want you to focus more on the sitting at the table as the win, the exposure to new foods as the when not necessarily them eating it, but just them being exposed to it and seeing it and touching it, and maybe just having it next to a seafood.

 

00;35;16;03 – 00;35;39;29

Dr. Mona

But don’t stop exposing. Number two. No pressure. You know, I talk about this reverse psychology that sometimes you have to feign that you don’t care, even though I know you care. Okay? You don’t have to eat it if you don’t want to know. Pressure. This is really hard. And you have to remember the nonverbal cues too. When it comes to pressure, things like, you know, the eye contact, the frustration that you may have, and obviously the verbal things like, hey, come back to the table, eat this.

 

00;35;40;03 – 00;35;57;22

Dr. Mona

Why are you not eating this? Looking at them, the verbal and nonverbal. Remember how we can create pressure at meal times. Put the meal there, make it a consistent routine, make it matter of fact and try not to get into that fight mode, that pressure mode and that battle mode, because that’s when you’re going to see more resistance.

 

00;35;57;27 – 00;36;18;14

Dr. Mona

And number three, and I know we have a lot of principles that I could have summed up, but this is the number three take home, allow some control. And highlight the right with as I recommended that, you know, he continues to be allowed to choose breakfast so that he feel some control after that night, that maybe he may not be eating and also control outside of meals where it’s appropriate.

 

00;36;18;14 – 00;36;36;08

Dr. Mona

So choosing what they wear and saying, hey, great job of picking out your clothes, what they watch when they are able to show control. So that we respect them and say, hey, look, I understand that you want to do X, Y and Z and applauding them when they are showing those things, but that they also understand that there’s boundaries there.

 

00;36;36;08 – 00;36;58;11

Dr. Mona

It’s also expectation, and it’s this balance that can really help. It’s okay to say to them, you know, you’re listening to yourself and that is wonderful. So that all they hear all day is not no, no, no, no, no. And that you’re highlighting the right, which can make you see changes in whatever behavior, including with selective eating. Thank you so much for tuning in today.

 

00;36;58;11 – 00;37;19;22

Dr. Mona

I am so grateful for this community and this podcast. Please remember to leave a review and a rating because that is how more people discover this podcast and it continues to grow. If you’d like to come on and ask a question, visit PedsDocTalk. Com and click the podcast tab to get a form where you can fill out, and we can consider having you on a future episode.

 

00;37;19;29 – 00;37;21;16

Dr. Mona

Thank you and I’ll talk to you next week.