I welcome Erin–a chemical engineer and food scientist and she helps me bust some myths about food science.

Tune in as we discuss the following:

Is corn syrup bad?
Is baby rice cereal going to give my child arsenic poisoning?
Are there really heavy metals in baby food? Is it a problem?
Why do Cheerios get a bad rap?
Is organic food better? Is it better for the environment/
What is GMO? Is non-GMO really better?
Is food coloring bad?
Is the EWG a science-based organization?
How is food regulated in the US?

00;00;06;25 – 00;00;36;00

Dr. Mona

Hey, everyone. Welcome to the PedsDocTalk podcast. I’m your host, Doctor Mona, where each week I hope to educate and inspire you in your journey through parenthood with information on your most common concerns as a parent and interviews with fellow parents and experts in the field. My hope is you leave each week feeling more educated, confident and empowered in the decisions you make for your child.

 

00;00;36;02 – 00;00;54;14

Dr. Mona

Hello everyone and welcome to this week’s episode. I am so excited to have Erin aka Food Science Babe on Instagram. She is a chemical engineer and food scientist and we are going to be talking all about the science of food. Thank you so much, Erin for being here today.

 

00;00;54;17 – 00;00;56;05

Erin

Yeah, thanks for having me.

 

00;00;56;07 – 00;00;59;20

Dr. Mona

So what inspired you to start Food Science, babe?

 

00;01;00;07 – 00;01;34;15

Erin

So I’ve worked in the food industry now for, a little over ten years. And, so I guess I should first say that I used to be an organic food consumer. I used to, believe in some of the myths that I debunk. Now. And so when I started, you know, realizing that a lot of these things were myths, you know, the longer that I worked in the food industry, I, I just got really sick of seeing so much misinformation on social media and, yeah.

 

00;01;34;15 – 00;01;57;24

Erin

So I just I was like, okay, I don’t really see anyone specifically debunking, things. You know, I saw a lot of dietitians and, you know, doctors and stuff like that trying to debunk, misinformation. But I didn’t specifically really see anyone sort of debunking, like the food babe type stuff, about the food industry and about GMOs and organic and all that kind of stuff.

 

00;01;57;24 – 00;02;08;05

Erin

So I was just like, I’m going to start a page and start debunking some of the stuff. And if people care about what I have to say. So that’s kind of just how it got started.

 

00;02;08;07 – 00;02;25;02

Dr. Mona

Well, I definitely am so glad I found your page. I actually found your page a couple months ago. I was saying how, you know, with Instagram it kind of goes where you’re you discover a page and you’re like, wow, how did I not know about this? And as a pediatrician, you know, I don’t know nearly enough about food science.

 

00;02;25;02 – 00;02;42;06

Dr. Mona

So I’m going to probably learn something from you too, which is super exciting because I’ve already learned so much from your page, from just following you for a couple months. So I’m so glad you’re here. And if you are not already, you need to follow Food Science Fab on Instagram. I’m going to obviously tag tag it in the show notes.

 

00;02;42;15 – 00;03;03;09

Dr. Mona

But a lot of different up to date news stories and so many different things. But we’re going to be actually going through some questions that some of my followers have asked. On my page about food science. So the first question we’re going to go through is that I got asked is corn sirup in formulas bad?

 

00;03;03;12 – 00;03;44;14

Erin

So the thing about corn sirup, it has gotten such a bad rap. Basically just because, you know, it has replaced sugar in, in things like soda and, you know, things that people consider highly processed and not necessarily, you know, very healthy. And so I think, I think, people just sort of think it’s bad because it’s in certain things that they think are unhealthy, whereas the actual ingredient itself is not, you know, it’s not any less safe or less healthy than the sugar that it’s replacing in things.

 

00;03;44;14 – 00;04;10;05

Erin

So, high fructose corn sirup has gotten a really bad rap like, especially because people so there’s so many studies that have been done in rats and mice with huge doses of just pure fructose. And so and then it’s, you know, all these horrible things, you know, like there’s even studies where they’re like, you know, injecting it into the to the rat brains and stuff like that.

 

00;04;10;05 – 00;04;39;21

Erin

And so it’s not real world exposure. It’s, you know, it’s on mice and rats at huge doses. And then also these studies are just pure pure fructose. And, that’s not what high fructose corn sirup is. The reason why it’s called high fructose is because it has a higher level of fructose than just regular corn sirup. But in actuality, the ratio of fructose to glucose is almost exactly the same as honey.

 

00;04;39;21 – 00;05;03;22

Erin

And, as as people sugar. So, it has just gotten a bad rap because of those, those mouse studies. And then, you know, everyone sort of links it to obesity just because it is in it has replaced sugar in a lot of things. But I mean, in and of itself, it’s not a it’s not an unsafe ingredient.

 

00;05;03;22 – 00;05;39;03

Erin

It’s not something that you need to be avoiding. Essentially it’s just a, you know, sometimes producers will replace sugar because it’s, lower cost, but it’s it’s not making the product any less safe or any less healthy. So that is when I see people like specifically try to avoid. But, it really doesn’t make sense. And a lot of times it does make the products, you know, less expensive for those that can’t afford something that is, you know, marketing it as we use real sugar or something like that.

 

00;05;39;03 – 00;05;59;25

Erin

I mean, corn sirup isn’t less real or, you know, less clean or any of those words that you hear. So, I just think it got a bad rap. I don’t yeah, I don’t really know. I think I do hear some people say, like, they specifically avoid it too, just because they say it it, you know, a lot of processed foods.

 

00;05;59;25 – 00;06;13;28

Erin

So if they’re avoiding it, they’re avoiding, like what they deem to be unhealthy. But I mean, I guess if that’s your reasoning, fine. But it in and of itself is not unsafe or something we specifically need to be avoiding.

 

00;06;14;01 – 00;06;32;14

Dr. Mona

Yeah. And you said it perfectly. Less like less expensive doesn’t necessarily mean less healthy, which I think, you know, obviously like a lot of American, a lot of formulas. I actually formula for my son and it has corn sirup in it. And so everyone’s like, oh, well, what about the corn sirup? I’m like, no, it’s actually it’s a form of sugar, like you said.

 

00;06;32;14 – 00;06;51;00

Dr. Mona

And it’s perfectly fine. And it’s it’s not obviously all sugar in the formula. It’s not all corn corn sirup. It’s a mixture. And it’s just a part of the thing that we’re consuming, which is so much of what we’re going to talk about. But I think there is that sort of I agree that there’s this fear of the label, oh, corn sirup.

 

00;06;51;00 – 00;07;10;06

Dr. Mona

It has to be bad. I mean, like you said, I’ve heard that a lot about the it leads to obesity. No, no, no, there’s so many different things that come into our lifestyle that can obviously impact our weight, including genetics. But but yeah. No, I completely agree with that. And the other baby related question I had was about rice cereal.

 

00;07;10;06 – 00;07;17;07

Dr. Mona

So the common question we get is giving baby babies rice cereal going to give them arsenic poisoning.

 

00;07;17;10 – 00;07;38;07

Erin

Yeah. So, I don’t know if you’ve heard of time. But they actually wrote an article about it, like whenever the I think it, I think it was like last year, it was like a huge story. And, so I think that isn’t, you know, I think a lot of times on my page, since I debunk things so much, everybody’s just like, oh, that’s pure fearmongering.

 

00;07;38;07 – 00;08;00;29

Erin

And, you know, that one, that one. I mean, there is arsenic in rice just based on, you know, how it’s grown, the soil, the water, can, you know, carry some arsenic in it. So, you know, it is something that is present. There are ways that, you know, it’s not the type of thing where it’s like, oh, you should be avoiding rice altogether.

 

00;08;01;02 – 00;08;21;04

Erin

I think the big message is just making sure, like you’re you are varying your diet, your child diet. So, you know, if they are eating rice cereal, like mix it up with some other grains, don’t just, you know, make it always be rice. And then there are some other things too, that, that’s a and I can send you that article so you can link it here.

 

00;08;21;04 – 00;08;48;06

Erin

But they’re, they had some recommendations of like if you’re cooking rice there are ways to cook it like in more water. So you actually pour some of the water off and that gets rid of like 40 to 60% of the arsenic in the rice. So, yeah, it’s one of those things where obviously, like, we can’t test every single batch of rice we’re eating, or, you know, feeding our kid, but it’s not something where it’s like, oh, you should be avoiding rice altogether.

 

00;08;48;06 – 00;09;09;22

Erin

I think it’s just make sure your diet is varied and, it’s, you know, just eating it here and there isn’t going to add up to a toxic level of, you know, arsenic. And I think a lot of times when people hear that they’re in the presence of, like, anything like that in something, they just get afraid and they want to avoid it altogether.

 

00;09;09;22 – 00;09;33;02

Erin

But, I mean, there’s traces of things that you might consider to be harmful or toxic, but but when you know, you have to, you have to understand the dose. And, you know, just the presence of these things in food doesn’t make it, you know, automatic, poisonous or toxic. So, that is one of those things where, yeah, it is there.

 

00;09;33;02 – 00;09;44;26

Erin

And, I think just making sure you’re varying your diet and your child’s diet, it really, you know, it’s not like you need to really be worried about arsenic poisoning.

 

00;09;44;28 – 00;10;04;06

Dr. Mona

Agree. I will link that. I’ll, you know, either from my moms or if you send me a link that the the basically explanation of that article because I remember when that came out, I had just started my Instagram and I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Everyone like, it’s okay. We’re not going to we’re not going to give our children poisoning by giving them one, one dose of rice cereal for breakfast every day, right?

 

00;10;04;06 – 00;10;25;14

Dr. Mona

If if you’re eating the same food for every meal, that’s probably not good for anyone. Whatever it is, right? You need to. You need to vary, vary your diet. And I think there is a fear that article that you were mentioning, it was basically saying how, you know, there’s metals in our food, but like you said, in when things are growing in the soil, there are going to be metals per se, right?

 

00;10;25;17 – 00;10;48;01

Erin

Right. Yeah, exactly. And I think people people seem to generally understand it when it comes to like seafood and mercury. Right. It’s like we understand like, oh, we shouldn’t be eating those high sauces like all the time, every day, like you need to vary it very that. And so I think, you know, it seems like people understand that and it’s sort of the same thing.

 

00;10;48;01 – 00;11;11;17

Erin

I mean, but even in these, in these circumstances when, you know, the baby food with the trace metals and stuff like that, I mean, those were very, very low amounts. They were they were below the, you know, the safety levels. And so it really wasn’t cause for concern. I think, I think a lot of times, you know, it’s good that obviously it’s good that they’re testing these things.

 

00;11;11;17 – 00;11;33;02

Erin

And like we would need to know if it is, you know, something that is at a harmful level. But I think, obviously the the studies get taken by the media and they get sensationalized and everyone just read the, the title and it’s like, oh my gosh, there’s trace levels of, you know, heavy metals in especially when it’s like baby food.

 

00;11;33;02 – 00;11;53;12

Erin

I mean, that’s scary for parents. And so I think, you know, it’s like it’s obviously good for foods to be tested to make sure they are safe. But then I think what happens is the media grabs those, studies and then, you know, they write an article, people read the title and it’s like it just gets blown way out of proportion.

 

00;11;53;12 – 00;12;11;04

Erin

And, you know, it’s really not something that we need to necessarily be afraid about. I mean, like we said, just varying the diet, you know, just a presence of something doesn’t mean that it’s harmful. So. Yeah.

 

00;12;11;06 – 00;12;27;04

Dr. Mona

Well, there’s. Yeah, there’s two things that happen when that when the media, you know, comes out with these headlines, one, parent will look at it and be like, oh my gosh, I can’t believe I was giving my child this, this baby food or whatever it is. And they go through this whole guilt spiral and they’re like, I, I’m a terrible mother.

 

00;12;27;04 – 00;12;53;19

Dr. Mona

I’m a terrible father, whatever it is. And then the other thing is, and people are shaming anyone else who buys those products, when in reality they are very okay, you know, and that’s a huge problem in, in parenting, social media. And as a pediatrician who’s also a mom, it’s like guys, it’s actually it’s okay. Like everyone’s everyone’s doing things all right, and you’re not harming your children by buying, you know, these certain foods or giving them, you know, one dose of rice cereal.

 

00;12;53;19 – 00;12;55;10

Dr. Mona

And what we you know what we’re talking about here.

 

00;12;55;16 – 00;13;15;27

Erin

Yeah. And then I think what also happens in, you know, food companies then also capitalize off of it and they’ll, they’ll be like, oh, we test for this. You know, like we test for this heavy metal now and ours is free of whatever it is. And then they charge more and then it just gets into this, you know, again, shaming.

 

00;13;15;27 – 00;13;39;23

Erin

And then when parents buy that one that has that label on it, it’s like, oh, you’re buying that one. So it’s harmful. Like it just turns into a marketing ploy. I mean, that happens a lot with, you know, organic, non-GMO, the whole glyphosate and Cheerios. Like, now a lot of there’s companies out there that are testing for glyphosate now, and there’s like, life is a free label.

 

00;13;39;23 – 00;13;44;14

Erin

And it’s like, oh my gosh, I can just. Yeah, that’s ridiculous.

 

00;13;44;16 – 00;14;02;16

Dr. Mona

No, I remember when the that that article about the metals and food came out and there were I, I’m not going to name the company on this episode, but there was a baby food company that has like a subscription service. Right. And their advertisements all changed to say, we don’t you know exactly what you said. We we test our food, it’s free of metals.

 

00;14;02;16 – 00;14;25;03

Dr. Mona

And then they’re on the comments. Everyone’s like, wait, are you serious? Like food growth and soil like, how are you? How are you able to guarantee that there’s no metals in food that is in the earth? It was actually very interesting and I, I used to follow them and then I stopped following them because I was like, I don’t I can’t, you know, I can’t support a company that’s not doing things, you know, doing things for basically marketing purposes and not evidence based.

 

00;14;25;03 – 00;14;35;24

Dr. Mona

So. Absolutely. So I want it. You mentioned about Cheerios. So let’s talk about that because that’s a common question I get also are Cheerios dangerous toxic? What’s what’s the deal about Cheerios now?

 

00;14;35;24 – 00;14;58;24

Erin

So what has happened is the EWG, which is the environmental working group. So they’re essentially a they’re essentially an activist organization. Like a lot of people think they’re like a legit, you know, non-biased organization. But if you even just go to their funding page on their website, you can see the organic companies that they are funded by.

 

00;14;58;26 – 00;15;27;10

Erin

So essentially what they do is they what they have been doing recently, specifically with all the fear around it is they’ve been testing and specifically testing children’s food, which I think is, interesting. You know, they try to scare parents specifically. So there was a whole list of, you know, kids cereal, like granola bars, all these things that they had tested and found traces of glyphosate in.

 

00;15;28;01 – 00;15;52;13

Erin

The first thing was that, I don’t know if they have changed their testing method. But I know when they did those Cheerios testing, the testing method they were using wasn’t even a validated testing method to find for life. So that was like the first thing. The second thing was they were testing it themselves. And so, I mean, their data isn’t peer reviewed.

 

00;15;52;13 – 00;16;19;27

Erin

Nobody else is looking it over. They’re essentially just testing it using a non validated method and then publishing it on their website. So really I mean we can’t even really put any confidence into the numbers in the first place. But but let’s even say that they are correct. It’s just ridiculous. The tiny tiny tiny amounts that they’re finding, I mean, they’re, they’re, they’re measuring new levels in parts per billion.

 

00;16;20;00 – 00;16;49;27

Erin

And, I mean, that’s very, very, very small. I mean, if anything, it’s showing us how safe our food is. But yeah. So, I mean, I’ve been doing every time they come out with one of these reports, like I do the calculations and it’s like it was something like a 30 pound child would have to eat 600 bowls of Cheerios a day for an extended period of time to get to, you know, eat potentially unsafe level of glyphosate.

 

00;16;49;27 – 00;17;19;06

Erin

And so, and I think it comes back to, you know, what we were talking about, trace, you know, traces of something people think is scary. They they think that it shouldn’t have any. And if it has any, that it’s unsafe. But, I mean, we have to remember that literally every chemical has a toxic dose. And so, literally, the Cheerios themselves would be you would reach a toxic dose of Cheerios before you would the glyphosate.

 

00;17;19;06 – 00;17;49;24

Erin

So we have to remember that, I mean, everything has a toxic dose, whether it’s natural or synthetic. I mean, it doesn’t tell you anything about its toxicity. And so when you’re when you’re afraid of these tiny, tiny levels of, pesticide residues in foods, I mean, you literally wouldn’t be able to eat anything if you were afraid, because even though they’re only testing for one single residue, I mean, there are residues in probably all of our foods.

 

00;17;49;24 – 00;18;38;27

Erin

I mean, organic farming uses pesticides. Plants themselves produce pesticides as a natural defense mechanism out in nature. So, I mean, there have been studies showing that humans, the, you know, 99% of pesticides humans consume are actually the ones that are produced by the plant. So I mean, these tiny, tiny amounts that we’re getting through the, you know, the residues, from farmers applying them like it’s just it doesn’t make sense to be specifically afraid of those tiny, tiny, tiny amounts, of the specific pesticide residues and what I always find, like, just crazy is that glyphosate specifically, is like one of the least toxic pesticides that farmers have available to them.

 

00;18;39;08 – 00;19;06;15

Erin

I mean, the acute toxicity is less than table salt. And so we’re talking about something that, you know, is one of the safest, most effective pesticides that farmers have. And, I just think it’s crazy when when people are specifically like, singling that one out because, like, there are quite a few in both organic and conventional farming that are a lot more toxic.

 

00;19;06;22 – 00;19;30;27

Erin

Not that any of the levels have to be, you know, we have to fear, but it’s just crazy that there’s specifically targeting that one when it is one of the safest ones. So it really doesn’t make any sense. They just came out with their new hummus report and I calculated that out. And like, a 150 pound adult would have to eat over, like 12 gallons of hummus a day.

 

00;19;30;27 – 00;19;35;22

Erin

I mean, it’s just ridiculous. Like, it makes no sense to be afraid of that.

 

00;19;35;23 – 00;19;53;16

Dr. Mona

So, I mean, if you follow any of that and you’re like you said earlier, you’re not going to eat anything, you’re literally going to be stressed out about any food that you buy, and you’re probably going to stress yourself out to a medical condition. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Sure. It’s like the amount of stress. Yeah. The amount of stress parents are putting on themselves about.

 

00;19;53;16 – 00;20;02;07

Dr. Mona

I can’t do this. I can’t do this. I’m going to, you know, cause problems in my kid that stress is worse than what you’re probably being told. That’s dangerous for.

 

00;20;02;07 – 00;20;28;21

Erin

You. And, like, right now during a pandemic, too. And they’re still coming out with these reports of, you know, like, oh, you need to throw your hummus away. And I mean, right now, especially like going to the store is going to be more harmful, potentially, you know, getting exposed to coronavirus because you had to throw your hummus away from parts per billion, you know, levels of like the I mean, it’s just ridiculous.

 

00;20;28;21 – 00;20;39;19

Erin

Like, I just think it’s it’s especially harmful right now, during a pandemic. Like, I just think it’s ridiculous that they keep coming out with these report organic food.

 

00;20;39;19 – 00;20;49;03

Dr. Mona

It’s this, like you said earlier, that you used to do organic, and then you kind of were like, what’s going on here? Is organic food better? Is there certain foods that are better organic? What’s the deal with that?

 

00;20;49;18 – 00;21;12;29

Erin

So what organic is, is, I mean, there are specific, regulations that have to be met in order to get the organic label on your food. So things like, they can’t use. Well, they can use some synthetic pesticides, but a lot of the synthetic pesticides that conventional farmers use, they can’t use, they have to use, what they consider to be naturally derived pesticides.

 

00;21;13;26 – 00;21;45;15

Erin

They can’t use GMOs. They can’t use the antibiotic, on animals, things like that. So a lot of these things sound good to the consumer. You know, it’s essentially a marketing label. Because none of it translates to safer food or healthier food. I mean, there’s there’s many different studies that show that, you know, it’s not these regulations aren’t translating into safer or healthier food.

 

00;21;46;07 – 00;22;09;14

Erin

And, you know, when they when they when they don’t allow for synthetic pesticides, it just really doesn’t make sense in terms of, you know, the environment or human health. Because a lot of times the organic pesticides are worse for the environment and they’re worse for the health of the people applying them, or, you know, they’re not as effective.

 

00;22;09;14 – 00;22;28;01

Erin

So they have to use more. So the fact that they have these restrictions, it really actually, you know, it ends up actually making it worse for the environment. I know one thing, one reason why I used to buy organic is I thought I wasn’t really sure if it was necessarily healthier, but I always thought it was better for the environment.

 

00;22;28;01 – 00;22;57;03

Erin

And, it’s not like it’s actually worse because it’s so it’s, it’s less efficient than conventional, because they don’t allow for GMO. So it takes 20 to 40% more land to grow the same amount of food. Organically as it does conventionally. And so really these restrictions, are kind of just used as marketing. They sound really good to the consumer because the consumer thinks natural is safer and better when it’s not.

 

00;22;57;25 – 00;23;31;14

Erin

The whole antibiotic thing is actually one reason why I won’t buy organic, meat or animal products because, so, you know, just like humans, animals get sick and sometimes they require antibiotics. And so the fact that organic, doesn’t allow for that, you know, they either have to try to use natural methods which might not work as well, or, if they end up having to administer antibiotics that, that animal that those products from that animal can’t be sold as organic.

 

00;23;31;14 – 00;23;57;29

Erin

And so, you know, there are situations where you’re withholding antibiotics from a sick animal and it, you know, they need antibiotics sometimes. But again, it sounds good to the consumer because the consumer think, oh, well, then there’s no antibiotics in the food, but there’s no antibiotic biotics in any food. Even when antibiotics are administered to an animal, it has to go through a withdrawal period.

 

00;23;58;02 – 00;24;21;13

Erin

And so and then also the product has to be tested to make sure there’s no residue. So nothing you’re eating, you know, the milk you’re drinking the meat, you’re eating, whether it was from a conventional animal or organic. There aren’t any antibiotics in the product itself. So there’s just a lot of marketing labeled. I mean, you see, no, no hormones added or no antibiotics.

 

00;24;21;13 – 00;24;48;21

Erin

And these things are all marketing labels. A lot of, you know, a lot of the packages of chicken say like no hormones added, like hormones aren’t even allowed. So it’s purely marketing. So many of these things are just, just marketing. And then, I mean, the studies show that organic is safer, it isn’t more nutritious. So, it really is just a marketing label.

 

00;24;48;23 – 00;24;52;25

Dr. Mona

And same thing goes for fruit, right? Like organic fruit versus non-organic fruit.

 

00;24;52;27 – 00;25;17;22

Erin

Yeah. I mean, they’re if they’re using pesticides, there are similar there’s similar levels of pesticide residues on both organic and conventional. They’re super, super low again like parts per billion levels. And so, you know, the USDA, tests produce every year as a part of their you can actually go online and look at all of the data that they collect.

 

00;25;18;16 – 00;25;44;15

Erin

But it’s their PDF, their pesticide data program, and they collect data, to make sure that the pesticide residues are below the tolerance levels. And, you know, the pesticide residues are regular, regularly just hectored at levels, you know, hundreds to thousands of times below the very conservatively set tolerance levels. So our food is incredibly safe from a pesticide residue perspective.

 

00;25;44;15 – 00;26;06;13

Erin

So you’re not you’re not getting any safer by buying organic. That’s just one of the probably want to I would say the number one myth surrounding organic food is that people think they don’t use pesticides, and they do. But at the same time, that’s not a cause for concern. Regarding organic or conventional food. So.

 

00;26;06;15 – 00;26;24;05

Dr. Mona

Oh, me and my husband get into this all the time because he buys organic fruit and I, you know, it’s obviously more expensive. And I’m like, just go to the regular grocery store. It’s like there’s a local grocery store that has non-organic fruit. That’s amazing. It’s fresh, it tastes great. And he’s like, well, I like it. I’m like, we literally are not on the same page.

 

00;26;24;05 – 00;26;41;14

Dr. Mona

And I’m like, I, I get it. Like I even and I learned so much from, you know, obviously how you defined it in terms of the, you know, the label and also the, the like, the pesticides, the antibiotics. I had no idea about that. Now, I do want to ask about GMO because I again get asked this.

 

00;26;41;14 – 00;26;55;27

Dr. Mona

I never learned about GMO in medical school residency. It was after when I became a physician that I was like, people are asking me this. I want to do more research, but what does GMO stand for and why does it get a bad rap so GMO?

 

00;26;55;29 – 00;27;28;08

Erin

I kind of hate the term. It’s not a very scientific term. So GMO literally stands for genetically modified organism. It’s not very scientific, essentially. So humans have been modifying food for thousands of years, you know, crossbreeding, creating hybrids. So, you know, there are there are multiple ways that humans have been genetically modified crops. So crossbreeding, obviously, most people don’t have an issue with that.

 

00;27;28;08 – 00;27;58;20

Erin

We’ve been doing that for thousands of years. There is something called mutagenesis, which has been around since the 1930s, which a lot of people don’t know about, but essentially, they, they would use radiation to induce mutations in seeds, and then propagate them to see what changed. And so obviously those two methods, the crossbreeding and mutagenesis are, you know, not very precise.

 

00;27;59;08 – 00;28;29;03

Erin

You kind of just do it and see what happens. See what? See what traits are expressed. So it kind of takes a long time to, to develop a crop. That way when you’re doing those ways. So, so the so what has been termed GMO now is the more precise, more recent way of modifying crops. So bioengineer would be the more scientific term or genetically engineered would be the more scientific term.

 

00;28;29;03 – 00;28;59;20

Erin

So essentially, scientists would be, you know, inserting specific genes for whatever trait they want in that crop. So, so much more precise, obviously way less unintended consequences than, than these previous methods. But it sort of been taken by, by activist groups. I think back in the 70s, it was Greenpeace that sort of started fearmongering over.

 

00;28;59;22 – 00;29;30;06

Erin

I don’t know if it was them that termed them GMO specifically, but they essentially took this one modification technique that actually is way more precise. And, you know, way more efficient. And they essentially didn’t really understand it. They were afraid of it. So they started, scaring consumers that it was creating Franken foods or, you know, these foods that were, unsafe or.

 

00;29;31;17 – 00;29;56;27

Erin

Yeah, I don’t, I don’t know, I think it was just consumers didn’t really understand, what it was. And now, you know, we have decades of data now, and we know that, bioengineered crops are just as safe and at least as nutritious as their non bioengineered counterparts. And so, so what has happened since then is the non-GMO project.

 

00;29;56;27 – 00;30;30;25

Erin

That’s the butterfly label, on food that goes non-GMO. So ever since that’s been a thing, I think, it really just it doesn’t educate consumers. That organization specifically purports to be educating consumers, but in reality, all it’s doing is scaring consumers. You know, you see a label that says non-GMO on something, and if you don’t really know about it, you just immediately assume, well, if this specific label is telling me it doesn’t have GMO, then like it must be bad.

 

00;30;31;02 – 00;30;54;15

Erin

So, I think that label specifically has really created a lot of unnecessary fear around GMOs, because anytime you have a label saying this doesn’t contain this thing, like consumers just automatically assume, well, then that must be bad. Otherwise, like, why would this label be a thing otherwise? And so that organization, is essentially an anti GMO organization.

 

00;30;54;18 – 00;31;40;26

Erin

And some of the food companies that I’ve worked for in the past, I’ve been responsible for getting their product approved through the non-GMO project to get that label. And it’s just such an arbitrary label, like it doesn’t, you know, it’s like they’re taking their demonizing one modification technique, when in reality, I mean, I think the thing that consumers, have a hard time understanding, too, is that like the end product of these modification techniques is what is tested for safety and like that’s what needs to be, you know, as long as the end product is safe and it’s being tested, and it’s just as nutritious as, you know, what they were

 

00;31;40;26 – 00;32;10;19

Erin

modifying. That’s what’s important. It’s not like the process used to get there. Shouldn’t be. You know, everyone’s scared about specifically genetically engineered when when it’s like, well, the young product is safe. So why does it matter which modification technique was used to get there? So I think that’s really important to understand that, you know, the end product, as long as the end products are safe, it shouldn’t matter which genetic modification technique was used to get there.

 

00;32;10;22 – 00;32;46;19

Erin

But then also, it’s just crazy to me that consumers are the most afraid of that technique because it is so highly regulated. It takes something like $130 million and like seven years to get through all of the safety testing and and all of the, environmental testing in order to bring a GMO to market. Whereas a crop created through these other modification techniques, like, are not regulated very much at all.

 

00;32;46;19 – 00;33;04;29

Erin

And so it’s just kind of crazy to me that the one that’s the most precise, the most regulated is the one that consumers are the most afraid of. And, I mean, there have been surveys and studies that have been done that have shown that the people that are the most afraid of GMOs really know the least about them.

 

00;33;04;29 – 00;33;30;26

Erin

So I think it’s just about, not really understanding what they are. And then all those labels saying non-GMO, what make consumers afraid of them. And then also, that non-GMO label can be put on anything, whether it has a GMO counterpart or not. So, you know, you’ll see it on things like orange juice and there aren’t even GMO oranges.

 

00;33;30;26 – 00;33;52;17

Erin

So it’s just it’s it’s crazy. Like, it just doesn’t even make sense in a lot of cases. But even when it is on something that has, you know, a GMO counterpart, it it still doesn’t make sense because it’s not telling you anything about the safety or the nutrition of the product. It’s essentially just making consumers afraid of GMOs.

 

00;33;52;19 – 00;34;18;08

Erin

So, and there are only ten GMO crops approved in the US. And so I think I think that’s another misconception. I think a lot of people think that if something doesn’t have that non-GMO label, like it must be GMO, but that non GMO label is voluntary. Companies pay that organization essentially for that label, and it’s largely a marketing label.

 

00;34;18;08 – 00;34;40;18

Erin

I mean, all of the companies that I worked at that use that label, it was a marketing decision. You know, it was never a decision around. Oh, it makes it safer, healthier. You know, it was always, who’s our target market? Okay. They’ll pay more for this label. I mean, if it’s 100% a marketing label, it doesn’t it doesn’t tell you anything helpful about about the product.

 

00;34;40;18 – 00;35;14;13

Erin

So, so, yeah, I mean, the fear, the fear around GMOs just really is not evidence, evidence based at all. And then what ends up happening is that a lot of, you know, developing countries that, you know, GMOs, there’s something called, golden rice that was developed for countries that, are a lot of the people are deficient in vitamin A, and so it was something that would increase the amount of vitamin A in rice and the fear of GMOs.

 

00;35;14;13 – 00;35;38;08

Erin

And these activists, organizations like, are making it really hard for some of those countries to approve these things. And so it’s just, you know, it’s not it’s not something that’s just, you know, it’s like, oh, well, I don’t if I’m against it and it doesn’t harm anyone. I mean, it is harmful for specifically for countries that could really benefit, from this technology.

 

00;35;38;08 – 00;36;06;29

Erin

And they’re not allowing it because they’re afraid from, you know, what activist organizations say or like, I mean, there’s activist organizations that even go to these countries and destroy, like, whole plots of rice because they don’t agree with it. So, it is really detrimental, the fear, for developing countries and then also, I mean, just it does allow for, farming to be more efficient.

 

00;36;06;29 – 00;36;24;17

Erin

So food costs to be lower. And so it really it really would be detrimental if it, if it was something that, you know, wouldn’t be allowed. So yeah, there’s really no evidence as to, you know, behind the fear for GMOs. It’s just sort of a marketing thing.

 

00;36;24;20 – 00;36;38;29

Dr. Mona

Yeah. Similar to the organic and whatnot. What about, food coloring? Like food dyes, food coloring? I think there was, I believe, like, red, red dye or, things like that. People were asking about the dangers. Or is it dangerous?

 

00;36;39;00 – 00;37;13;18

Erin

No. So there’s a lot of specifically fear around red food coloring and ADHD and autism. And, there is really no data to back any of that. So I know in Europe they have to have some sort of disclaimer every time they use specific colors, and it has something to do with it potentially exacerbating symptoms of children that have ADHD.

 

00;37;13;20 – 00;37;39;10

Erin

But the study that that was based on was essentially they gave kids, there were like four drinks. So there was the control. And then there were three different drinks with multiple different colors in them and a preservative. And so and then teachers and parents observed the children’s behavior and like, that’s what that warning label is based off of.

 

00;37;39;10 – 00;38;13;21

Erin

I mean, it was based off of literally like, yeah, like parents and teachers observing behavior. And then there were so many variables involved because, like, each drink had like multiple different colors in it and a preservative. And so it’s just crazy like the, the fear, if you actually look at the studies that these, like yours are based off of or these claims that people are making, it’s like, no, like that’s not there is no clear like, cause, you know, children with ADHD, their symptoms getting worse.

 

00;38;13;21 – 00;38;39;13

Erin

I mean, I think a lot of times two parents just, you know, it’s a lot of anecdotes that get kind of perpetuated. And it’s like, well, every time my kid has this, like, they get hyper and, also too, I mean, it’s like, okay, so they were eating a birthday cake with colors. They were at a birthday party and, you know, like they had a lot of energy, like it probably wasn’t the colors.

 

00;38;39;13 – 00;39;06;00

Erin

And so I hear a lot of stories like that where there isn’t, you know, there aren’t well controlled, controlled studies showing that it has any effect. And and it has been studied quite a bit too. So, it’s not just like lack of studies, it’s that there aren’t clear there isn’t like a clear, you know, thing between colors and it creating these, these effects in children.

 

00;39;06;00 – 00;39;32;19

Erin

So, and then also the thing again, people a lot of times default to like natural colors and they think natural colors are safer and they’re better. But in reality, so like the fancy colors that you see, like on labels like the yellow number six or those, so those are called certified colors. And those have gone through extensive of testing before they, are approved.

 

00;39;32;21 – 00;40;00;16

Erin

And a lot of the natural colors are, have gone through way less testing than these certified colors. And so, it’s just, again, to be like, afraid of the ones that have been tested quite a bit and then to be okay with like, the natural ones just because they’re natural. It just really doesn’t make sense because they’re, they haven’t been tested even, you know, close to the amount of the certified colors.

 

00;40;00;16 – 00;40;23;17

Erin

So but yeah, there’s no these things are in food at such a low amount, too. I mean, like when you formulate a product with a color, you’re not really having to put much in there at all. So yeah, I think this I think this year has a lot to do with just anecdotes from people. And, I don’t know, again, I think it’s one of those things that can be really detrimental.

 

00;40;23;17 – 00;40;46;01

Erin

There was a page that was sort of fearmongering over it, and telling, telling parents, you know, kids with autism like, not to be feeding their, autistic kids, you know, anything with food colors in it. And it’s just like, it’s my daughter is disabled and she has, you know, a lot of things that she can’t eat.

 

00;40;46;01 – 00;41;15;29

Erin

And she eats very specific things. So she has cerebral palsy. So, just motor wise, she just can’t eat some things. But, you know, I know there are a lot of, of, autistic children that, you know, are very picky about what they’re eating. And so I think it it can be really harmful if it’s like, not only like, is your kid already very limited in their food choices, but now, like you’re hearing the stuff about, oh, no, now I can’t feed them things with colors in them.

 

00;41;15;29 – 00;41;33;11

Erin

And this was their favorite thing. So I just think it can be so detrimental. Specifically when you’re talking about, you know, kids that already have a limited amount of things that they eat and then scaring parents when there is no evidence behind it. Like, I would get it if there was actually evidence behind it, but there’s not.

 

00;41;33;11 – 00;41;58;14

Erin

You’re just scaring parents and then you’re limiting their children’s choices even more. So I just I get really frustrated with that kind of misinformation because, yeah, it’s just it, it like I said, my daughter already, you know, has some, you know, motor issues and stuff. And and if I was afraid of all these things I was hearing, like her diet would be even more limited, because of all this misinformation.

 

00;41;58;14 – 00;42;01;03

Erin

So it really frustrates me.

 

00;42;01;05 – 00;42;23;29

Dr. Mona

The fear, like you said it perfectly, like the already having a limited palette. And then now they can’t. They’re trying to pick and choose out of like they only had five things and now there’s only two things. And that just goes this. I mean, this whole conversation that we’re having goes towards the sort of fear mongering that parents or even any child, they’re trying to feed their child a variety of different things, and they’re picking and choosing, okay, well, I only can have non-GMO.

 

00;42;23;29 – 00;42;48;04

Dr. Mona

I can only have organic, organic. And the child, there’s so much food out there that may not fit the label that, you know, the fear mongering is supporting. So it’s really it’s stressful. And I appreciate you so much for obviously your Instagram page and for, you know, obviously bringing the evidence base because there is no place in parenting for fear mongering when it’s not science based.

 

00;42;48;07 – 00;43;02;29

Dr. Mona

So it’s yeah, I forgot to ask at the beginning. So I obviously I know you obviously your chemical engineer and your food scientist. What exactly what what do you do for a living? You said that you were like consulting with companies or, you know, manufacturers of food. Yeah.

 

00;43;03;02 – 00;43;25;24

Erin

So, when I first started out, I was with a large, conventional ingredient company, doing, R&D work on their sort of snack products. So I was working a lot on different cereal products, granola bars. And in that role, I was, I was, developing products on the benchtop, but then I was also scaling them up to full scale production.

 

00;43;25;24 – 00;43;47;27

Erin

So going into the full scale manufacturers and manufacturing it, for the store shelf. So I did that for about five years. And then I personally was the inorganic food consumer at the time. So I thought out a more natural and organic company to work for. And so that’s when I worked for that company where I had to get their products, non-GMO verified.

 

00;43;47;27 – 00;44;07;01

Erin

And, and that’s sort of what got me started on the track of, the seems really arbitrary, like this, this certification that I’m getting seems kind of arbitrary and like, like I said, you know, it’s like, this is totally just like being decided in the marketing meeting. So that’s kind of when I started, like, questioning all of it.

 

00;44;08;14 – 00;44;32;02

Erin

But I still I still just assumed organic was better. I didn’t really look into it. So I worked at that company for a couple years, and then I worked at, well, and then I had my daughter. And so she ended up, having some disability. So I ended up staying home with her. So ever since then, I’ve been consulting, with I mostly stay home with her, and then I just work part time now.

 

00;44;32;02 – 00;45;07;26

Erin

So I’m consulting with small startup food companies. I mean, ironically, some of them do decide to get their products, organic certified and non-GMO certified. You know, as a food scientist, I, I, I help develop products and however they want to market them and how they market them. So sometimes it is kind of frustrating, you know, working on a product and, and a lot of times, you know, the food, the especially like small, food companies of people like just starting up, they also have full, you know, false perceptions of organic.

 

00;45;07;26 – 00;45;22;24

Erin

And so, you know, they’re like, oh, we want this to be organic and we want this to be non-GMO. And it’s like, do you actually even really, you know, understand what that means? And a lot of times they don’t, but a lot of times they do. And it’s like, well, yeah, but I know I can sell it for more.

 

00;45;22;24 – 00;45;27;01

Erin

So it’s just it, it’s it’s marketing. That’s all it is.

 

00;45;27;03 – 00;45;44;09

Dr. Mona

You mentioned the EWG. So the Environmental Working group, how they’re basically advancing it in a way because they are supported by a lot of private companies. Right. Yeah. So I want to talk a little bit about that. What is what do they get wrong in terms of their research. Is there anything that they get right.

 

00;45;44;26 – 00;46;07;13

Erin

So I, I mean, I haven’t looked into like some of the other things that they do as far as, like environmental. I haven’t really looked into that stuff. I’ve just looked into some of the stuff that they’ve done with food and then cosmetic. Just because some of the other science based accounts I follow, they kind of they kind of do what I do, but more like in the skincare and cosmetic side of it.

 

00;46;07;16 – 00;46;35;04

Erin

But, so I’ve written and I wrote an article about like, The Dirty Dozen, but essentially, I know as far as, like cosmetics and food go, they never take those into account when they report these things, which is a huge issue, because obviously, if you are saying something is that, you know, harmful or something is toxic or something is dirty, you know, they’re dirty dozen.

 

00;46;35;27 – 00;47;02;22

Erin

And you’re just saying, oh, there are this number of pesticide, but you’re not at all taking into account, like the dose. So, yeah, I’ll just talk about, like, the Dirty Dozen specifically. So essentially what they do is they take that USDA data that I was telling you about that essentially tells us how safe our food is and is showing us, like how low our pesticide level, level or residue levels are.

 

00;47;02;25 – 00;47;26;00

Erin

They’re taking that data from the USDA and what they’re doing is they’re just counting the number of detections. So I’ll just make up an example. This isn’t accurate, but let’s say strawberries are always at the top of their list. So they’ll look at the detections on strawberries. And there will be let’s say there’s like five five different pesticide residues on strawberries.

 

00;47;26;02 – 00;47;55;24

Erin

And then let’s say blueberries is like number two. And there’s like four different pesticide residues. That’s like that’s literally how they make the list. Like they don’t take into account the dose. They don’t take into account what the chemicals are. Because obviously each each chemical has a different toxic dose. So you need to be taking into account what the chemical is, what the dose is, and so they’re taking this data that’s showing like yes there are residues but they’re at very, very, very low levels.

 

00;47;55;24 – 00;48;25;15

Erin

And they’re taking that and just saying like well this one has five residues. So it’s at the top of our list and you shouldn’t be buying it. It makes no sense because we’re talking about extremely low levels. So there you know, like everything on their list. It’s not it’s not unsafe. You shouldn’t be buying organic. I mean, the other thing is too, they’re not even they’re not even, taking into account organic, like they’re not telling people that organic is using pesticides.

 

00;48;25;15 – 00;48;46;20

Erin

They’re not they’re not using that data in there. They’re literally just taking like the conventional ones and scaring people about those. But there’s a website you can go to. It’s called Save Fruits and veggies.com, and you can put in like, like man, woman, child and then you can pick strawberries and it shows you how many servings you would have to eat.

 

00;48;46;20 – 00;49;11;09

Erin

Sort of like the calculations I did with the Cheerios. And it’s something like a, an adult woman would have to eat like 425 servings of strawberries a day to reach like a harmful level of pesticide residue. So it’s just it’s ridiculous that they’re even scaring consumers about it. But again, I mean, their whole point is to get consumers to buy organic.

 

00;49;11;09 – 00;49;40;05

Erin

And so they’re scaring consumers about conventional so that they’ll buy organic. And that’s the entire purpose of that whole Dirty Dozen thing. And then the same thing goes for a lot of their, reporting on cosmetics, too. It’s the same thing. Like, it’s like they’ll say something that people assume is harmful, some sort of ingredient that everyone’s afraid of and they don’t take into account don’t or, you know, exposure or any of those things.

 

00;49;40;05 – 00;49;44;06

Erin

They just say it contains this and then it and then people are afraid of it will dose.

 

00;49;44;06 – 00;50;03;03

Dr. Mona

And then also you had mentioned earlier like, when you’re talking about the studies with like mice and rats, that how it’s being administered. Right. Because even with like sunscreens. Right. There was like a sunscreen study that showed that if they ingested the like that that chemical, then of course they would have. But you’re not ingesting sunscreen. So it’s so it’s inferring in a wrong way.

 

00;50;03;03 – 00;50;25;24

Erin

Right. Exactly. I mean, you’ll see a lot of the studies, so many of the studies that people send me for, you know, glyphosate too. It’s like they’re literally injecting rapid glyphosate like that have nothing to do with how humans are being exposed to these chemicals. So, yeah, you have to really understand, you know, and a lot of times people won’t look at the studies, you know, they just read it and they’re like, oh, that’s scary.

 

00;50;25;25 – 00;50;44;10

Erin

You know, I’m going to just buy organic to be safe. And and it’s just it’s they’re planting any sort of little feet of doubt they can in consumers. And so, you know, it’s like, well, if I can afford. And that’s kind of where I was at two in the past. You know I was always like, well, if I can’t afford organic, like I might as well just do it.

 

00;50;44;10 – 00;51;07;18

Erin

But, you know, again, detrimental to those people that can’t afford organic because now they’re afraid that they’re poisoning their children, or they make sure they buy organic, and then they just end up eating less produce because they can’t afford as much. And so, like, these things aren’t just harmless misinformation that’s going around the like. It is really harmful, too.

 

00;51;07;18 – 00;51;41;08

Erin

So, I mean, there have been surveys that have been done where people that end up buying organic because of the dirty dozen, they end up buying less produce overall, which is obviously going to be worse for your diet. So, so yeah, I think it’s important to just be making sure, like anytime you see somebody, even my followers, like, once they understand this, like, make sure you’re, like, commenting whenever you see the Dirty dozen and, you know, to make sure that it doesn’t just keep getting, perpetuated.

 

00;51;41;08 – 00;51;56;15

Erin

I feel like the more because a lot of people go into the comments and they read the comments and it’s like, if nobody’s saying anything about it, like they’re going to they’re going to, you know, just believe it. But if they see a bunch of people commenting and being like, hey, this isn’t true, like you don’t need to be afraid of it.

 

00;51;56;15 – 00;52;24;16

Erin

So I think it’s important to like once you do understand this, like if you see it, just comment on it too and say like, hey, this isn’t necessarily evidence based. Like I still see it. Like I’m like dietitians still sometimes promote the Dirty Dozen. And, a lot of times they just don’t know, you know, I’ll comment and be like, hey, are you aware that, like, this is an evidence based and, you know, sometimes they don’t receive the information very well, but, you know, sometimes they’re like, oh, I actually had no idea.

 

00;52;24;16 – 00;52;35;03

Erin

So, so yeah, it’s kind of crazy how like, even diet dietitians still are promoting the Dirty Dozen. So yeah.

 

00;52;35;06 – 00;52;53;11

Dr. Mona

Well, it’s so easy for like, for example, I, I went on the EWG website about a couple of years ago, and the website is really nice, and you don’t see any of the, like the articles, the peer review. You know, obviously they’re not doing peer reviewed, research. And it looks nice. It looks official. And then I started looking.

 

00;52;53;11 – 00;53;23;09

Dr. Mona

I started like searching the products. I use. And I was like, wait, that makes no sense. This product is fine. I recommend it for my my patients. And then I actually saw the funding and I, my mind was blown. And then when I started following you was when I started to kind of obviously learn more. And I was like, yes, I thought I was the only one because like you said, even besides dietitians, even there are some physicians that talk about EWG as the sort of, you know, platform of, hey, this is how you can find the best products for your family.

 

00;53;23;18 – 00;53;25;00

Dr. Mona

And it’s not it’s not the case.

 

00;53;25;06 – 00;53;26;06

Erin

It’s the thing.

 

00;53;26;06 – 00;53;30;17

Dr. Mona

The thing dirty app that is not related to EWG, right? That’s separate.

 

00;53;30;19 – 00;53;55;04

Erin

Gosh, I always forget I don’t know, I can’t I think EWG does have I can’t keep the app straight. But I’ve asked I’ve asked a few of those, other science based accounts that do sort of more of the skincare, like that kind of side of it. And I’ve asked because I get every time I talk about think dirty or the EWG, you know, everybody’s like, well, what what is a good app?

 

00;53;55;04 – 00;54;23;03

Erin

And so I’ve asked some of these other accounts and they’re like, there really isn’t one. There isn’t a good science based app. So I think it is important to make sure you are following, you know, science based accounts. And, you know, I think once you kind of start understanding, like, you know, if they’re trying to scare you about a specific ingredient or chemical and they’re literally not telling you don’t ever in the entire conversation.

 

00;54;23;03 – 00;54;42;20

Erin

I mean, it’s like, that’s a huge red flag. Or if you click on a study and you know, it’s like, oh, the sample size was like five people, or it was in rat or it was in mice. I mean, like some of these things, you can just start kind of like seeing the red flags, like once you once you kind of start seeing it everywhere.

 

00;54;42;20 – 00;55;10;04

Erin

But, it’s tough because there really isn’t a good science based app in there probably isn’t, because in order to get a product on the market, I mean, it has to go through specifically, like when I was talking about that sunscreen, I mean, sunscreen has to go through some pretty rigorous safety testing. So if there was a science based app, it would probably just be like, hey, all of it’s fine, you guys.

 

00;55;10;04 – 00;55;14;12

Erin

I yeah. So yeah, are you ready for it?

 

00;55;14;15 – 00;55;32;19

Dr. Mona

Because if it’s on the market, we regulated it. Right? Right. And do you think I mean kind of being like going on that topic, do you think that there is good regulation in the United States for food? Like and I want to clarify the FDA versus the USDA. They’re both I actually know the difference and what they do you like.

 

00;55;32;24 – 00;56;02;25

Erin

Yeah. So the USDA is more involved in like approving like animal products, like milk, dairy, you know, doing all the grading for all those kind of kinds of things. And then FDA, which I, I’ve been I in the food industry, I typically work like in snack products and stuff like that. So the regulations that those products fall under are all like FDA regulations, all of the, nutrition panels, all of that kind of stuff falls under FDA regulations.

 

00;56;03;23 – 00;56;34;11

Erin

So and then obviously, the USDA is, the organic USDA certified organic. So that label comes from the USDA. So, so, yeah, I mean, that’s the other thing, too. I think a lot of people think like, anything can just be developed and like put on the market and it’s like, no, these things have to go like new ingredients, like novel ingredients, like they have to go through safety testing and they’re, you know, we’re not just able able to like come up with something new and just put it on the market and see what happens.

 

00;56;34;11 – 00;57;10;18

Erin

Like, that’s I think a lot of people think like, these things aren’t being tested before they go to the market. And, I mean, they are. So yeah, I don’t I don’t think there’s really anything that consumers like specifically have to be afraid about other than, you know, if there’s a recall on lettuce that was contaminated, like, yes, the yeah, I think it’s these things that people are afraid of are I think what’s happening is like, our food is so safe that like these tiny, tiny things that, you know, the EWG and groups like that are bringing up just get blown.

 

00;57;10;20 – 00;57;30;26

Erin

So out of proportion because it’s like our food is so safe, we rarely have to worry about anything other than like, you know, recalls of listeria or E coli, things like that. Obviously, we have to be worried about, but I almost feel like it’s like our food so safe that like, we’re just taking these tiny, tiny things and just blowing them, like, way out of proportion.

 

00;57;30;28 – 00;57;36;11

Erin

It’s just like our food so safe. Like we don’t need to be worrying about these little things.

 

00;57;36;13 – 00;57;54;20

Dr. Mona

And yeah, I mean, it’s it’s just it’s it’s funny because I’m now a mom. So when I was a people, before I became a mother, it was just a pediatrician. I, I obviously was like, yeah, this is fine. And then now with being a mother, I’m on, you know, mommy groups or things like that. And I’m hearing all the, you know, like, oh, well, that’s not safe.

 

00;57;54;20 – 00;58;20;25

Dr. Mona

And I’m like, wait, is it? No. What do you like in this bizarro alternate world where I’m. Am I wrong? Like, I actually was thinking for a long time and I’m like, no. So I started obviously thinking about obviously what I know and what I’ve learned. And I was like, no, this is actually become this middle class, upper class sort of way of looking at things like, you know, like a curse that if you’re higher, if you have higher education, you’re seeking out all this information that’s not evidence based.

 

00;58;20;25 – 00;58;36;00

Dr. Mona

Right? Like it’s kind of like it’s kind of like the anti-vaccine movement. Like the anti-vaccine movement is highly edgy for the most part, a lot of highly educated people. And it’s like, what went wrong that we’re we should if we’re educated, we should understand science. Right?

 

00;58;36;03 – 00;59;00;09

Erin

I know, and it’s just it’s it’s frustrating because it is then it is disproportionately impacting the people that, you know, can’t afford these things. And it’s like, well, yeah, if you can afford it and like you’re afraid and it’s like, okay, whatever, I’ll just buy organic like no big deal. You know, it’s not necessarily impacting you negatively. It’s when that shaming and that misinformation impact the people that can’t afford it.

 

00;59;00;09 – 00;59;22;29

Erin

And then they’re like, you know, just the messaging of like, oh, well, you know, if you can’t afford it, then you just can’t be eating healthy. And, you know, it’s just like even fearmongering around like canned and frozen and all that kind of stuff. It’s just it’s just ridiculous because then, you know, people that might not be able to afford fresh and organic, they feel like they feel like they can’t be as healthy.

 

00;59;22;29 – 00;59;52;14

Erin

And it’s just like it’s not true. And and again, like the whole stress over worrying about, like, am I poisoning my kid? Like, you know, it’s just that’s going to be way more detrimental for your health than buying conventional and buying frozen, buying canned, you know, all that kind of stuff. So it’s just so unfortunate. I mean, I think if you want to buy organic and you like it, you know, you like it for some reason, like that’s fine.

 

00;59;52;14 – 01;00;16;11

Erin

You know, I think a lot of my information, a lot of times, you know, people will ask me like, why are you so against organic? And it’s like, I’m not against it. Like if you and if you like that, if you have a, an organic farm that’s near you and you enjoy it and you want to support them, like, that’s fine, it’s when you get into the shaming of it and it’s like acting like it’s superior and saying, well, that’s poison, that’s toxic.

 

01;00;16;11 – 01;00;32;21

Erin

Like that’s the issue. Like if you want to buy organic and you like it, great, go for it. Like it’s the issue is around the fearmongering and shaming people. Like if they’re not eating that way because it’s not evidence based, like it’s, you know, so yeah.

 

01;00;32;21 – 01;00;48;26

Dr. Mona

And I’ve seen you do that on your page. And I get it because some people who are so on the other around really like, well, you’re not, you’re not understanding where we’re coming from. Like, you know, she actually you actually do. And you’ve actually posted, you’ve actually posted like please donate that food to someone who needs it. Like, don’t just throw out your hummus.

 

01;00;48;26 – 01;00;57;29

Dr. Mona

Don’t just throw out your sunscreen. I know with the whole sunscreen thing that happened, like, just don’t throw it out because it’s okay to use and that’s just good food or good products down the drain.

 

01;00;57;29 – 01;01;18;00

Erin

Right here, please. Yeah, it’s so frustrating. It’s like, okay, so you, you know, it’s like that’s that if that’s your choice to like not use it and you want to go to the store and buy something different like that, that’s fine. Like if you have the opportunity to do that, like, sure, go ahead. But at the same time, like, yeah, go donate it.

 

01;01;18;00 – 01;01;36;07

Erin

It’s fine. Somebody else can use that product. Like it’s not unsafe. But yeah, I think, I think any and that one was specifically ridiculous because it was based off of one single anecdote, like literally one person. And it was just like, oh my gosh.

 

01;01;36;10 – 01;02;05;20

Dr. Mona

Yeah, anecdotal. And I’m sure people listening understand the difference, but anecdotal basically means a story that someone thinks that, hey, this happened. So it must have caused this outcome when obviously that’s not always the case. It could have just been a one situation thing. And that’s super dangerous. I agree, because that happens a lot in pediatrics with various things and usually something with a chemical involved, which like you said, the dose makes the poison not the the actual chemical that is in everything.

 

01;02;05;20 – 01;02;19;29

Dr. Mona

Pretty much. Erin, I, I could talk to you forever about this stuff. I’m just so grateful for you and and your page and obviously bringing all the evidence based information on, to social media. What would be a final message you have for parents listening?

 

01;02;20;05 – 01;02;55;12

Erin

I think just don’t be, you know, don’t be afraid of your food like I think specifically, parents of young children, like, I didn’t even realize until I became a mom that, like, we are specifically targeted with these things. Like, you know, it’s not a coincidence that the EWG is specifically testing kids who like their, you know, it’s like this is being targeted specifically towards parents of young children, because obviously, if anything is being called toxic, you know, we’re going to be afraid and we’re not going to buy it.

 

01;02;55;12 – 01;03;14;17

Erin

So I think just making sure, like, you understand, like the red flags involved and like just, you know, stop being afraid of safe and healthy foods, because the stress is going to be way worse than, you know, buying the conventional and understanding that it is safe.

 

01;03;14;20 – 01;03;32;18

Dr. Mona

So, yes. And I mean, I know you’re obviously a mother and professional on social media, so am I. And the amount of DMs I get or comments like, hey, you do this and you’re doing that. I’m like, yeah, I have I’m doing this because I know it’s safe. I know how to do things safely. And it’s just it’s so interesting to me.

 

01;03;32;18 – 01;03;39;10

Dr. Mona

This culture of modern parenting. And yeah, you know, if if I were to talk to my parents about this, so, like, yeah, we gave you all this stuff.

 

01;03;39;10 – 01;03;41;10

Erin

And, you know, I’m fine. Exactly.

 

01;03;41;13 – 01;03;58;13

Dr. Mona

Like, I think you probably drink red fruit like you don’t read red, punch, like, every, every day. And you turned down. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, it’s totally like you said so many times in this episode, you said, like, it’s it’s a combination of various foods, right? You’re not going to give rice cereal every time, like every meal.

 

01;03;58;13 – 01;04;03;10

Dr. Mona

You’re not going to you’re you’re doing everything in moderation. And that’s what life is. And and including with our food.

 

01;04;03;17 – 01;04;31;08

Erin

Yeah, definitely. I think people are getting too far into like, these granular, granular levels. That’s one ingredient needs to be avoided or this one thing, you know, and it’s like, overall, well, if you have a healthy diet and a healthy lifestyle, like the things that people are considering to be, like, toxic and, you know, all the junk food, all those like shaming types of term, you know, it’s like these things can fit into an overall healthy diet.

 

01;04;31;08 – 01;04;49;12

Erin

And like, yeah, just having rules around, you know, I can’t eat this ingredient. I can’t either through like, that’s going to be worse for your health than just like, understanding. Yeah. This can be a part of a healthy diet. Like, no, this one thing isn’t going to kill me. Like so. Yeah.

 

01;04;49;15 – 01;05;10;02

Dr. Mona

Yeah. Everyone, you have to follow food science. Babe, I’m going to actually add again the handle on my show notes because she really debunks a lot of the myths out there, with news stories that come out. And it’s just so great. I think it’s so important that, like she said, that you follow evidence based science accounts when it comes to foods, products and everything regarding your kids.

 

01;05;10;02 – 01;05;13;15

Dr. Mona

So thanks again, Erin. Food science. Babe, I really appreciate you.

 

01;05;13;16 – 01;05;16;13

Erin

Yeah, thanks for having me again.

 

01;05;16;15 – 01;05;35;07

Dr. Mona

Thank you for tuning in for this week’s episode. I hope you guys enjoyed it. As always, please leave a review, share it with a friend, comment on my social media and if you’re not already, follow me at PedsDocTalk on Instagram. I love doing this for all of you. Have a great rest of your week. Take care.

 

01;05;35;08 – 01;05;36;04

Dr. Mona

Talk to you soon!