I welcome Victoria from Bella Luna Family, who is a  sleep consultant and mother to a toddler. We discuss toddler sleep including regressions.

• How can we teach our toddler independent sleep skills?
• What are toddler sleep regressions and why do they happen?
• What do we do during these regressions?
• What is the key to success in helping teach our toddler to sleep?
• What are some various strategies to consider?

00;00;11;10 – 00;00;26;05

Dr. Mona

Welcome to this week’s episode where I am welcoming Victoria Bermudez, who is a certified sleep consultant with Bella Luna family, a toddler mom. And we are talking all about managing toddler sleep. Thank you for joining me today, Victoria.

 

00;00;26;07 – 00;00;28;24

Victoria Bermudez

Thank you so much for having me.

 

00;00;28;26 – 00;00;39;13

Dr. Mona

I am so excited to talk about this because I get a lot of questions about this on my Instagram. But I want to know a little bit more about you. Tell me about yourself and why you decided to be a sleep consultant.

 

00;00;39;15 – 00;01;07;08

Victoria Bermudez

Sure. So I am a certified child sleep consultant. I’m also an Army wife, and I have my own two year old son who keeps me on my toes every single day. I also have a degree in child and developmental psychology, and about a year ago I became certified in Chelsea, consulting through the family sleep Institute. So I made the decision to become a Chelsea consultant when my son was around six months old.

 

00;01;07;10 – 00;01;37;14

Victoria Bermudez

Because honestly, sleep was so, so hard for us. As a newborn, he really struggled to fall asleep and stay asleep. And just because of the way that I am as a person. The field, the really, really serious obsession for me. I started researching everything I could get my hands on, all the books, all the articles. So by the time we finally got him sleep train from around four months old, I had read so many books and articles on sleep training.

 

00;01;37;16 – 00;02;01;10

Victoria Bermudez

I was talking to anybody who would listen about it, and my friends started asking me for help and advice. And so, you know, helping people is something that I’ve always felt a very strong pull for, like a very strong passion for. I have a background in mental health. Which we know that sleep really affects. Sleep is a really big, and sleep has a really big impact on maternal mental health.

 

00;02;02;01 – 00;02;23;14

Victoria Bermudez

I also found that there is this really big stigma and a lot of misinformation, you know, surrounding baby sleep and sleep training. And so I really wanted to provide guidance and assistance to families who are feeling helpless, like I did, but also confused about like, how to like how and where to even start. You know, sleep is not a luxury.

 

00;02;23;14 – 00;02;30;21

Victoria Bermudez

And I believe that we all deserve to feel empowered regardless of how we handle sleep and parenting.

 

00;02;30;23 – 00;02;47;07

Dr. Mona

Oh, I couldn’t agree more. And I know we we connected on my Instagram a while back. We had actually just become a sleep consultant. And I remember you asked, you’re like, you know, I just started this thing I would love to be. And this was like months ago, and I promised you that I would have you on because I could just sense your passion for what you’re doing.

 

00;02;47;08 – 00;02;56;16

Dr. Mona

Obviously, being a toddler mom, but also your your desire to help so many parents out there. And I’m sure you’ve you’ve have in the past month, how long have you been asleep? Until ten again?

 

00;02;56;18 – 00;02;59;19

Victoria Bermudez

About a year now. Also about a year ago. Yep.

 

00;02;59;26 – 00;03;23;02

Dr. Mona

Awesome. I think that’s so great. And you said it perfectly that we all deserve sleep. And also how I look at it as a pediatrician and why I’m happy we’re doing this episode. There are so many health benefits of the child getting sleep. And you said beautifully about the parents getting sleep. Maternal mental health is so greatly impacted by the sleep of the family and especially the sleep of the child.

 

00;03;23;08 – 00;03;47;29

Dr. Mona

And so I think it’s important that we always talk to families about the options out there, because I can’t tell you how many times families come in and they just feel that they have to struggle with this, when of course, it’s going to take some work to get to where they need to go to manage their sleep. But there are solutions out there to help your child learn how to sleep, whether that’s slowly, gradually, you know, being with you and close to being and getting, you know, to be on their own.

 

00;03;48;04 – 00;04;01;18

Dr. Mona

However, you’re approaching it regressions. But it’s just so important. I cannot stress enough how important sleep is for the mental health of the mom, the health of the child, the immune system of the child. So I’m glad we’re talking about this.

 

00;04;01;21 – 00;04;23;14

Victoria Bermudez

Absolutely. And you’re exactly right that when we start to work on sleep, you know, a lot of times the primary presenting need is for the child. The child is the one who is struggling, and that’s who we want to get sleep. But it really is a trickle down effect. And so once we start improving things for our kiddo, the whole family starts getting more sleep, better sleep.

 

00;04;23;16 – 00;04;29;24

Victoria Bermudez

Everybody is more well-rested. Everybody is functioning better. So this is really like a whole family thing.

 

00;04;29;27 – 00;04;49;10

Dr. Mona

This is going to be great. So yeah, I will say I’m sure there are so many different strategies to look at. So we’re going to be talking about some tips for families as they approach toddler sleep. And this may be two things we’re going to talk about. Toddlers who may have never been an independent sleeper, and also toddlers who may have been a great sleeper as infants and then regress.

 

00;04;49;17 – 00;05;08;17

Dr. Mona

Maybe the advice may be a little bit different, maybe very similar, but we’ll talk about that. So my first question is if we’re approaching it, you know, what would be some methods that you would do when beginning to sleep train a toddler and especially if maybe the child has never been an independent sleeper. So where can they begin in this in this standpoint?

 

00;05;08;18 – 00;05;36;11

Victoria Bermudez

So when we talk about sleep training, a toddler, especially one who has never been an independent sleeper, we have to keep in mind that we are we’re we’re talking about a kiddo who has been sleeping one way for a long time. You know, whether it’s one year, two years, three years, four years. And it’s not only about the child, it’s about the parents who they’ve been managing sleep this way for a long time now.

 

00;05;36;13 – 00;06;10;11

Victoria Bermudez

And so, the other thing that really comes into play is that toddlers, especially once they get to be like around two and up, they have a lot of stamina. They have really, really big feelings when we make changes and they make sure that we know those feelings, like they make them known. So usually when I’m working with a toddler who has never been an independent sleeper, I gravitate more towards the methods that have at least a little bit of involvement.

 

00;06;10;11 – 00;06;47;06

Victoria Bermudez

So, something like a Ferber where you are doing check ins at set intervals, you’re providing comfort and reassurance with your child, and then you’re leaving the room again to allow them to work through it and adjust to the expectations. You know, basically, you’re reminding them, I’m here. I still love you. It’s time to sleep. Or you could even do something which is really more well known as like a chair method, where you start sitting right next to your child, whether they’re in a crib or a bed, and you stay there while they adjust to the expectations and they work through it, and then you gradually work your way out of the room over

 

00;06;47;06 – 00;07;14;28

Victoria Bermudez

the course of a couple weeks. So for toddlers, particularly the ones that are closer to two and up, those are the methods that I usually gravitate to, something like an extinction or cry it out. It’s not that they don’t work, it’s that, like I said, we’re working with a kiddo who’s never slept independently, and we’re also working with a parent who is, sometimes the parent has really big feelings about that change, too.

 

00;07;14;28 – 00;07;41;25

Victoria Bermudez

And so any method that you choose to implement, the most important thing is that it feels good for you in regard to your child’s temperament and regard and in regards to your parenting style, because it has to be something that you can implement consistently. Consistency is the single most important factor when we implement a sleep training method, and if it doesn’t feel good to you, you’re not going to implement consistently.

 

00;07;41;27 – 00;08;08;01

Dr. Mona

Oh very good point. And I the consistency point is one of the biggest things because I think when parents get into a plan, they often, you know, they come up with a plan, they’re ready to go. And then night number two comes by night number three. And then they backtrack. And I don’t think it’s bad to reevaluate your plan, but it’s important that when you come up with your plan that you say, okay, we’re going to give this a good shot for a week or two weeks, and then we’ll reevaluate, because I agree there’s different methods that may be better.

 

00;08;08;13 – 00;08;22;14

Dr. Mona

After you do one method, but you have to give it a shot. And I think that’s the work of, you know, September 10th also. Right? Just to kind of be that voice of, hey, you’re doing amazing. I’m sure when you guys check in with the families, it’s like reassuring them that, hey, this is what we’re doing.

 

00;08;22;15 – 00;08;41;03

Dr. Mona

What didn’t you like about it? What can we do? Do you want. How long do you want to let this go for? But I think that’s so important when you say consistency. The other comment I had was exactly what you said about the crying method for older children. I do agree with you completely that crying methods for toddlers and I when I said it.

 

00;08;41;03 – 00;09;04;06

Dr. Mona

When I say toddlers, I’m really talking about 18 month plus. I really do think more crying methods can be harder because again, the child has more awareness of well, what word mommy go, you know, to lead them and let them cry is going to be really difficult. And also, like you said, the parent, if they’ve never done any independent sleep from their child, it’s going to be really a hard adjustment.

 

00;09;04;08 – 00;09;25;20

Dr. Mona

I don’t think it’s a negative to do cry, but it’s going to be very difficult for everyone when you’re not used to that. And that’s why we’ll talk about, you know, like you said, the gradual method of in the chair and moving them, or moving slowly out the door in that chair method that you mentioned is there is it like you’re doing a certain amount of minutes in the room or until they fall asleep?

 

00;09;25;20 – 00;09;28;24

Dr. Mona

Or how does that exactly work if you’re doing it over the course of two weeks?

 

00;09;29;01 – 00;09;49;00

Victoria Bermudez

Yeah. So with the chair method, you’re staying in the room the entire time. So it’s a method with a lot more involvement. Essentially, as soon as your kiddo goes to bed, you’re going to just sit in the chair next to them and you’re going to help them, work through it just with your presence. Not necessarily like assisting or having a lot of involvement.

 

00;09;49;02 – 00;10;12;23

Victoria Bermudez

And when they fall asleep, you leave the room and then, through throughout the middle of the night, if they wake back up or they’re crying again, you simply return to your chair and you sit with them and you hold space for their feelings. You know, one thing that you talked about, with the crying, that’s really, really important to remember, even with an involved method like this one, is that there’s usually still tears.

 

00;10;13;01 – 00;10;33;03

Victoria Bermudez

Yes. So we just have to keep in mind that, you know, you’re involved in the process because you’re present and to some families, it’s really, really important for them to be present while their child is adjusting. And so you’re really present the entire time that they’re upset and learning to fall asleep. And then when they’re asleep, you leave the room and you stay there for a few nights next to the bed.

 

00;10;33;06 – 00;10;51;00

Victoria Bermudez

And then after a few nights, you want to move halfway across the room. And it’s the same exact thing. When they’re upset and learning to fall asleep, you’re there, present with them, and when they fall asleep, that’s when you can leave the room. And then again, after a few more nights, you’re working your way to the door, and then you’re working your way out of the room.

 

00;10;51;00 – 00;11;14;20

Victoria Bermudez

After a few nights. So this is a method that does take a while. It usually takes about two weeks, for things to truly settle in, especially at night. Or I’m sorry, especially for naps. I love this method. Like I do this method a lot, especially with toddler families, because it’s a really good progressive step for families who have been doing things this way for a little while.

 

00;11;14;20 – 00;11;22;10

Victoria Bermudez

You know, it’s a it’s a big, big step to just, you know, put your kid to bed and leave the room. So for a lot of families, this just feels a lot more manageable.

 

00;11;22;12 – 00;11;39;06

Dr. Mona

Oh, I agree, I do like this method for the older toddlers. And then the other method you mentioned was like the Ferber. And for Ferber, just for anyone who’s not familiar, that is basically you would not sit in the room. You would basically leave the room and graduated intervals before you come in and it’s just your presence again, correct?

 

00;11;39;06 – 00;11;57;16

Victoria Bermudez

Yeah. So those intervals usually start pretty short. 3 to 5 minutes. And then they get a little bit longer. As the, as they’re awake. So, so you might start with three minutes. You put your child to bed, you leave the room three minutes later. If they’re still upset, you go in just a quick check in. Yeah.

 

00;11;57;16 – 00;12;22;21

Victoria Bermudez

And then leave the room again. You’ve set another timer for five minutes, and then if they’re still upset in five minutes, you check in and then leave the room again. And then ten minutes you’re going back in, you’re checking in and you’re leaving again, and then you wait until they fall asleep. It’s just ten, ten, ten minutes. And then the thing about Ferber, which is, really a timed interval method, is that each night the checks just get progressively longer.

 

00;12;22;21 – 00;12;34;22

Victoria Bermudez

So the next night you would start? Yeah, at a slightly longer interval. And what that does is over time it again starts to remove your presence and give just a little bit more time and space for your kiddo to walk through that expectation.

 

00;12;34;22 – 00;12;54;04

Dr. Mona

With both methods, there may be tears, even if you’re sitting next to them and holding space with them. And you say that phrase beautifully. And I also talk about that holding space term, in that you are allowing them to feel their feelings, understand that they may want you to be next to them, because if they were used to that, right, but you are teaching them the skill.

 

00;12;54;04 – 00;13;08;15

Dr. Mona

And I think I spoke about this in another sleep training or sleep episodes that I did in that when we’re teaching our children to sleep, of course, if it’s new to them, they’re not going to love it like anything a baby or toddler does right there. You teach them how to do tummy time. You teach them how to do any skill.

 

00;13;08;15 – 00;13;38;27

Dr. Mona

They’re going to get frustrated. They’re going to be upset. But whatever method you choose, whether there’s tears or not, and especially if there is, it is not a negative thing. It’s just more a hey, we are teaching you this skill. I am going to be there for you. And I can’t stress that enough. And you said that beautifully, because there is still this sort of stigma surrounding managing sleep with sleep training because, you know, it’s like, oh, well, my kid cries if I don’t stop the crying or if I’m not there, then they feel like I’m not going to be there for them every time.

 

00;13;39;03 – 00;13;53;20

Dr. Mona

But no, it’s like, hey, this is sleep time. We’re teaching you this awesome skill because you’re a big kid and I’m so proud of you. And I know you can do this. And if we can’t, we’ll try again. It’s just this uplifting, positive skill that I look at it and so I can feel that you feel the same way.

 

00;13;53;20 – 00;13;58;05

Dr. Mona

So that’s really nice because I want parents to really hear that message.

 

00;13;58;07 – 00;14;25;01

Victoria Bermudez

Yeah. I mean, when we’re when we’re talking about implementing different sleep habits where we’re changing things and by nature, children don’t love when we change things. But that’s okay because we’re their parent and we know that they have a need, which is to sleep. And the whole family has a need, which is to sleep more. And we are just changing the way we do things, because this works better for our family and it’s okay for them to be upset about that change.

 

00;14;25;01 – 00;14;41;24

Victoria Bermudez

You know, there’s going to be a lot of times in a child’s life where they’re upset about something and they don’t like it. And so, you know, it’s definitely not our goal as a parent to, you know, stop that big feeling or make sure that our children never cry, right? Kids cry. They do.

 

00;14;41;26 – 00;14;58;23

Dr. Mona

Yeah they do. And it’s it’s so important that we recognize that their tears are okay for them to have and that when we’re coming from a place of love and I do, I do consider sleep training a place of love because we’re trying to teach them something. It is something that is really it can be very beneficial for them.

 

00;14;58;23 – 00;15;14;02

Dr. Mona

And I’m sure all your clients and all my patients too, when they get on the other side, right, the long two weeks or however long it takes, they’re like, wow, I can’t believe I felt like this was going to be, you know, they’re harder than it was. Or they feel worried that I can’t believe I thought that this is going to be an awful thing.

 

00;15;14;02 – 00;15;37;12

Dr. Mona

And then they get to the other side and they’re like, oh, this was amazing, and I’m so glad I did it. And everyone’s getting sleep. The child is still happy. Obviously, the child is still connected with the parent because we train my son. It is a beautiful thing what happens. I’m sure parents may have asked you this, but when you say you know you’re going in and checking in, this means not giving them a feeding or anything like that in the toddler age.

 

00;15;37;12 – 00;15;52;06

Dr. Mona

Correct? Or how do you approach, you know, if a family wants to give them a bottle still, which toddlers at this point don’t need it for nutritional reasons. But what do you say about if they want a feeding when we’re trying to sleep, train them or a bottle or something else that they need besides just presence?

 

00;15;52;12 – 00;16;14;22

Victoria Bermudez

So as a sleep consultant, I try really, really hard not to give feeding advice. There are things that we kind of generally know, just like from being a parent and from, being educated. I always defer to the pediatrician, so I always let the parent know. Please talk to your pediatrician about whether or not your child needs to be fed at night.

 

00;16;14;24 – 00;16;36;28

Victoria Bermudez

With toddlers, we generally know that the pediatrician is probably going to say that they don’t need to eat overnight. But then I even think that’s really important to hear from your child’s pediatrician who is aware of their growth, their development, and their needs. And you already have a really good relationship with them, hopefully. And so, yeah, I always defer that question to the pediatrician.

 

00;16;36;28 – 00;16;53;19

Dr. Mona

And that is great. And that’s why I’m here. I’m just kidding. But I, I think that’s that’s why I love having, you know, a specialist in pediatrics on my, my podcast. Because you’re right. I think at the end it’s important just in case there’s some medical issue and you are doing sleep training of any kind that you clear at whatever age the child is.

 

00;16;53;19 – 00;17;12;23

Dr. Mona

It’s just nice to run it by the pediatrician. And your pediatrician may have some tips for you knowing your child and knowing you. And then this will be a great episode to, you know, add on to that, but agreed. Most toddlers, we will not worry about feeds at night. There are very rare cases where I would say we need to, but that is usually something we deal with in the daytime.

 

00;17;12;23 – 00;17;32;12

Dr. Mona

But again, I think that Victoria brought up a really good point. That clear with your pediatrician, however old your child is. I think this is great. I want to talk about regression. So the child who was doing well, and then all of a sudden has regressions, probably similar methods. Correct. Or what would you advise for these families.

 

00;17;32;15 – 00;17;57;24

Victoria Bermudez

So when a child who has, is experiencing a regression. So when this happens, what we really need to do is put on our detective hats and try to figure out why the sleep is regressing. So most sleep regressions are really, first of all, a true sleep regression is a temporary regression in sleep, and usually sleep regressions will last around two weeks.

 

00;17;58;07 – 00;18;24;01

Victoria Bermudez

If it’s going much longer than that, at that point, you’re probably looking at habit. But most sleep regressions are the result of a developmental progression. So a developmental milestone, an exposure, an explosion in language skills. Around two we’re looking at usually the development of of imagination. And then sometimes there’s a change in sleep needs. So some kids will hit every single sleep regression.

 

00;18;24;01 – 00;18;42;23

Victoria Bermudez

Even if you sleep train at a young age, other kids, you don’t even notice that you know they’re going through something or that something is going on. I have one of those kids who has hit every single sleep regression right on target. So I’m really glad that you asked about this, because this is often where we’re like, what?

 

00;18;42;23 – 00;19;15;25

Victoria Bermudez

I thought sleep was going really, really well. What is happening? It’s not anymore. So we really want to try to get to the root of what’s going on. But while we’re doing that, the most important thing you can do is to just stay consistent with the expectations that you already have set. So if you have a toddler who has already been sleeping independently, similar to when we initially implement a sleep training method, you can provide reassurance, you can hold space for their feelings, and you can also maintain your expectation of independent sleep.

 

00;19;15;28 – 00;19;40;14

Victoria Bermudez

Remember that if your toddler’s job to test your boundaries, they love testing boundaries and you can lovingly hold those boundaries for them. But while you’re doing that again, you really want to kind of get to the bottom of what’s going on with your kid. Tune in. Are they learning a bunch of new words or, have they, you know, could they be having, I went through this a couple of months ago with my own son.

 

00;19;40;14 – 00;19;56;09

Victoria Bermudez

He is a little over two now, and he started waking up in the middle of the night, and he’s been sleeping through the night for well over a year now. He started waking up suddenly in the middle of the night and crying out in a way that was a little, you know, confusing for me and a little bit alarming.

 

00;19;56;09 – 00;20;20;23

Victoria Bermudez

You know, it gave me a little bit of, big feelings. And so I really asked myself, like, what could this be? What’s going on? I know that he’s two years old, his imagination is developing. And I realized that he was probably having bad dreams. And so what I actually did was I introduced a sleep safe nightlight, which is something that is red, orange or yellow in hue.

 

00;20;20;25 – 00;20;49;27

Victoria Bermudez

And I put that in his room so that when he woke up, he could look at his surroundings, feel grounded, recognize them, and the next time he had a bad dream, I saw him. He woke up. He looked around, he cried out a little, and then he laid back down and went back to sleep. So, you know, just kind of knowing what our children are going through at a given time, especially when they’re working on new skills or when new things are developing, we often see that disrupt sleep.

 

00;20;49;29 – 00;21;13;07

Victoria Bermudez

When I’m learning a new skill or when I’m, you know, reading a really, interesting, like book or, or, you know, just learning something new. Sometimes I have trouble sleeping as well. So they’re little humans. It’s very, very normal. And we just want to stay consistent, avoid creating new habits that you don’t want to sustain, but then also see what you can adjust.

 

00;21;13;09 – 00;21;31;16

Victoria Bermudez

Maybe a, decrease in sleep needs and you need to give them a shorter nap during the day. Maybe bedtime could actually be a little bit later, that kind of stuff. So it’s definitely important to attack it from both sides or approach it from different sides. I should say.

 

00;21;31;18 – 00;21;50;14

Dr. Mona

That’s a great point because again, it could be the is there early waking. Early waking is happening that’s causing some issues. And again, like the development that can be happening, which I see commonly obviously in many different ages, not just the toddler years. So these are all great points. What about that kid who maybe is dealing with regressions?

 

00;21;50;14 – 00;22;02;07

Dr. Mona

Or maybe they’re just, you know, learning how to sleep and they’re old enough to come out of the room. So these are children, you know, maybe two and a half, three in a toddler bed. What are some tips for these families?

 

00;22;02;09 – 00;22;23;01

Victoria Bermudez

Yeah, those invisible boundaries are really, really tricky for kids to master and understand. And especially you mentioned the two and a half to three year age range. It’s especially tricky for kids under three. So the first thing that I recommend there is to keep your child, your toddler, in a crib for as long as you possibly can.

 

00;22;23;03 – 00;22;49;22

Victoria Bermudez

Safety is, of course, non-negotiable, right? But as long as you possibly can have them in a crib when they’re ready to come out of the crib. If they’re struggling to see and understand those invisible boundaries, because now they can get out of their bed, what we really want to do is turn their room into a giant crib. And so how we do that is we remove any thing that’s going to be distracting.

 

00;22;49;22 – 00;23;17;20

Victoria Bermudez

So this one is a hard one. But, if we can, we want to take toys out, any heavy furniture that can’t be like bolted to the wall and anything that’s going to provide a distraction. And then usually when I’m working with clients on this, I have them add an extra tall baby gate to the doorway. And this gives them that physical and visual boundary and barrier that will let them know it’s time for sleep.

 

00;23;17;20 – 00;24;00;18

Victoria Bermudez

You need to stay in your room. So we’ve turned the whole room into a giant crib. Now, it’s also really important to know that this alone doesn’t always solve the problem. So we want to combine it with a behavioral intervention. So, making sure that your response is super boring. We don’t want to reinforce coming out of the room or standing at the gate and yelling or that kind of stuff by offering like a really big response or engaging or interacting with them or, you know, reminding them 100 times to go to bed, making sure that the response is really boring, and then things like an okay to wake clock, can be really

 

00;24;00;18 – 00;24;19;07

Victoria Bermudez

helpful too. So something with like a red light when it’s time to stay in bed, and a green light when it’s okay to get up. That can be a really powerful visual cue as well. And then when we’re talking about two and a half to three year olds, this is a really, really great age to introduce positive reinforcement and logical consequences.

 

00;24;19;07 – 00;24;36;18

Victoria Bermudez

So when they’ve had a small victory, when they stay in the room for the whole night, we want to make a really, really big deal about that. We want to celebrate it endlessly. We’re so excited. You did so great telling your body to stay in bed last night. I got so much rest. Your body must feel so good too, because you got so much rest.

 

00;24;36;20 – 00;25;01;04

Victoria Bermudez

And then if they’re having a tough night rather than, you know, get really upset about that or make them feel badly about that, it’s it’s helpful to implement a logical consequence. Something like, I’m so tired because I was up a lot last night. You must feel really tired today too. Now instead of, you know, whatever fun activity you had planned, such as a trip to the park or a playdate with a friend.

 

00;25;01;04 – 00;25;19;11

Victoria Bermudez

Although I know nobody’s doing a lot of playdates right now, we have to stay home and rest our bodies. But the good news is that you get to try again tonight, and I know you can do it. So definitely adding something that provides like a physical or visual barrier is really, really helpful. And then combining it with behavioral intervention as well.

 

00;25;19;13 – 00;25;43;20

Victoria Bermudez

Some families and for some kiddos this is still really, really, really tough. And some families will find that they’re wanting to like lock their child in the room or add like one of those doorknob covers so that their child can’t get out. This is really more of like a last resort thing. Not typically the first thing that I’m going to recommend, because it can be a lot for a kid to feel closed off from the household like that.

 

00;25;43;20 – 00;25;56;24

Victoria Bermudez

But, you know, in some cases where that’s the only thing that works, it’s certainly effective at keeping your child in the room. I just like to start with, a more kind of inviting barrier in the beginning.

 

00;25;56;26 – 00;26;17;25

Dr. Mona

I agree completely. And the thing is, at that age, right, the two and a half three, which is I hope that you waited that long to put a child into a toddler bed. I mean, some people do earlier, but yeah, you are able to speak to them and help them understand the rules. Do you recommend talking to the child like, you know, in a few days we’re going to be doing something new where we’re teaching you how to sleep in, in your bed.

 

00;26;18;00 – 00;26;28;20

Dr. Mona

Do you do you recommend prepping them a little bit so that they’re ready for this new, exciting thing, helping them pick out, like, you know, bedding or stuff animal? How would you kind of do that prep process.

 

00;26;28;20 – 00;26;47;03

Victoria Bermudez

Absolutely. So for toddlers two and a half and older, we recommend doing a family meeting. This is before you start a sleep training method. Or if you’re having trouble, you may need to come back and do a family meeting again. So absolutely, you want to sit your toddler down and you want to talk to them in, you know, age appropriate terms.

 

00;26;47;04 – 00;27;09;16

Victoria Bermudez

Like what, you want them to be as involved in the process as you can. So we want to let them know what is going to change, what we’re going to be doing, what they can expect from you. I’ll usually tell my families to develop, sleep rule chart that says, you know, the rules are that you close your eyes, you stay in bed, I stay very quiet.

 

00;27;09;16 – 00;27;27;19

Victoria Bermudez

And I try to sleep. And again, that positive reinforcement and logical consequences. But absolutely, we want to include them as much as possible. We also want to talk to them about like why it’s important. Sleep is not a bad thing. This is not a punishment. Our child is not in trouble. They haven’t been doing anything wrong. But sleep is awesome.

 

00;27;27;19 – 00;27;47;24

Victoria Bermudez

Sleep is so good for our bodies. And so, you know, we’ll tell our kiddos things like when we get good sleep, we can, you know, run faster and jump higher and tell funny or joke. Whatever works to connect with your kid. That’s not going to eliminate any big feelings that they have about the teens, but it is going to empower them and make them feel involved in the process.

 

00;27;47;27 – 00;28;06;22

Victoria Bermudez

And I, like you said, I kind of recommend doing that as close to the actual day as you can, usually on the day that you’re going to start the changes so that you know they’re not waiting, like, oh, well, you said we’re going to do it this way. But tonight we didn’t, so maybe we’re not. And then that can kind of that back and forth can kind of be confusing.

 

00;28;06;22 – 00;28;14;19

Victoria Bermudez

So usually the day of yeah I recommend absolutely sitting down and talking to them about it and getting them excited about it as much as you can.

 

00;28;14;22 – 00;28;29;19

Dr. Mona

And you said it perfectly that the nights that don’t really go according to your vision as a parent, maybe you thought they’d stay in their bed or, you know, not come out of the room. You know, you still say to them, like you said earlier, that, hey, I’m so proud of you for trying. We’re going to try again later.

 

00;28;29;19 – 00;28;47;02

Dr. Mona

There’s no punishment. I agree from a developmental perspective also for children and toddlers that they respond way better to what I’m doing right than what I did wrong. So if we can, you know, acknowledge the good and just say, okay, we’ll work, we’ll work on it. And if they didn’t do it, they’re going to really, really come around.

 

00;28;47;02 – 00;29;02;13

Dr. Mona

For older children, it may take a little bit longer, meaning 1 to 2 weeks sometimes for them to for them to see this start to happen. And that’s okay. It’s just patience and consistency, like you said earlier, are what’s going to get us to that skill for that child in that family.

 

00;29;02;15 – 00;29;07;03

Victoria Bermudez

Absolutely. It does take a little bit to come together, but it’s well worth it.

 

00;29;07;05 – 00;29;30;08

Dr. Mona

I guess. Another question I have going into the child who comes out, you said putting like a little gate so that they can’t come out of the room right. Because I find that parents are often trying to bring their child back and forth to the room. Have you had families that don’t want to put the gate up and have a situation where the child is coming out of the room, but what is an alternative if the child keeps coming into the bedroom?

 

00;29;30;08 – 00;29;33;01

Dr. Mona

Yeah. And the family keeps putting them back in the room.

 

00;29;33;06 – 00;29;56;28

Victoria Bermudez

It’s exactly what you just said. If a child, if a family is not, open to putting a gate in the doorway and some of them are not, and, that so. Okay. The, the way that we would handle that is to do what we call a silent return. So again, very, very boring, very minimal interaction. We’re simply going to walk our child back to their bed, and we’re going to let them get in there and go to sleep.

 

00;29;57;27 – 00;30;20;06

Victoria Bermudez

Now, the thing with the silent return is that this is a method with a lot of involvement, and it can sometimes take many, many, many, many, many times of walking them back to their bed. And so it’s one of those ways that requires laser focus, consistency. It’s absolutely possible. And it is effective if you apply it with lots of consistency.

 

00;30;20;08 – 00;30;44;24

Victoria Bermudez

And you have to, you know, remain very calm, cool, confident and quietly walk them back to their bed. So that is an alternative to adding a gate. I would also want to install something like a door alarm so that, you know, when they’re leaving a room so that they’re not coming to your bed and you’re waking up, you know, two hours later with them next to you, because that’s reinforcing to when they’re able to.

 

00;30;44;28 – 00;30;47;20

Victoria Bermudez

Yeah, when they’re able to kind of get away with it I guess. Yeah.

 

00;30;47;23 – 00;31;14;10

Dr. Mona

I mean, I like the gate idea and I think that makes sense. And especially what we’re talking about here with the room being like the big bed. Right. Meaning the whole room is their bed is their bed. And so obviously coming out, they’re basically leaving the bedroom, leaving their bed, if you will. Have you have situations which I’m sure, and we can talk about it, where if the child is basically standing at the gate and crying, would if would a parent kind of use that Ferber method if they wanted to at the gate to meet them?

 

00;31;14;10 – 00;31;21;06

Dr. Mona

Or what would you say for that child who’s literally standing at the gate crying out to the family in terms of helping them with that still?

 

00;31;21;07 – 00;31;34;18

Victoria Bermudez

Yeah, absolutely. You just do a brief check in at the gate. Yes. You’re maintaining your your boundary and your expectation and you’re saying, you know, you’re okay. I still love you. I’m still here. It’s time to go to sleep.

 

00;31;34;20 – 00;31;59;08

Dr. Mona

Victoria, I just think we got through so much amazing things that toddler sleep. And it’s just really nice talking to you. Like I said, because what we are talking about here is how to create a great skill. Still showing love as a caring parent. And that’s the combination of sleep training that I love so much. What would be your final message to parents in regards to toddler sleep or anything in general?

 

00;31;59;11 – 00;32;21;26

Victoria Bermudez

Yeah, thank you so much. So my final message to parents, especially parents of toddlers, is that it’s not too late. So, you know, a lot of times when a toddler family comes to me, that’s a concern. Like, maybe it’s too late or, you know, maybe we’ve quote unquote messed things up now, and that’s certainly not what I think.

 

00;32;21;28 – 00;32;44;24

Victoria Bermudez

But that’s a lot of the language that I hear. And so to those families, I would say it’s not too late. You’ve been doing up until this point what worked for your family. And now if it’s not working, it’s so okay to make changes that feel more sustainable. And then also it’s normal for your toddler to have feelings about that change, and it’s normal for you to have feelings about that change as well.

 

00;32;44;27 – 00;32;56;09

Victoria Bermudez

You know, changing habits for a toddler takes a lot of patience, consistency. It takes some time, but they can do it. You can do it. Your whole family can sleep and it is so worth it.

 

00;32;56;11 – 00;33;15;28

Dr. Mona

It really is. And I did record about five episodes about sleep earlier on in the podcast episode 16 to 20, where I talk about even more things about sleep training. A little briefly about toddler sleep as well, but I think this was an amazing episode to really dive into the toddler issues, which I’ve been getting so many questions about.

 

00;33;16;05 – 00;33;23;17

Dr. Mona

And Victoria, where can people find you if they want your services or are there any resources you wanted to add and share with our listeners today?

 

00;33;23;21 – 00;33;43;10

Victoria Bermudez

Absolutely. So I belong to a team of amazing consultants. So Bella Luna family offers child sleep, behavior, potty training, consulting so you can find us at Bella Luna family.com. You can find us on Instagram and Facebook at Bella Luna Family.

 

00;33;43;16 – 00;33;55;00

Dr. Mona

Perfect. And I’m going to be linking all of these on my show notes everyone so you can easily access that. Victoria. Thank you again. I’m sure I’ll have you on another time because we can talk about so many other things regarding sleep.

 

00;33;55;07 – 00;34;00;12

Victoria Bermudez

Thank you so much for having me. This has been so fun. I’ve really enjoyed it. Thank you so much.

 

00;34;00;15 – 00;34;16;06

Dr. Mona

Thank you for tuning in for this week’s episode. As always, please leave a review, share this episode with a friend, share it on your social media. Make sure to follow me at PedsDocTalk on Instagram and subscribe to my YouTube channel, PedsDocTalk TV. We’ll talk to you soon.