What does your Pediatrician ACTUALLY know? It seems on social media, this is the narrative: “They have no education on lactation!” “They make money if they vaccinate our kids!” “They know nothing about nutrition.” “They know nothing about child safety!” “And why do they keep asking how my child is sleeping??!” I welcome Dr. Krupa Playforth, fellow pediatrician and mom and owner of her own practice to hash out all of these things and separate fact from fiction.

 

We discuss:

• What pediatricians really know from our training about lactation, car seat education, sleep, and nutrition
• Why your pediatrician cares about your child’s sleep
• Misconceptions about pediatricians, especially on social media (*ahem* We don’t get paid by big pharma to push vaccines)

 

To connect with Dr. Krupa Playforth follow her on Instagram @thepediatricianmom, check out all her resources at https://www.thepediatricianmom.com/ and purchase her book Eyes, Nose, Belly, Toes.

 

Our podcasts are also now on YouTube. If you prefer a video podcast with closed captioning, check us out there and subscribe to PedsDocTalk TV.

 

We love the sponsors that make this show possible! You can always find all the special deals and codes for all our current sponsors on the PedsDocTalk Podcast Sponsorships page of the website.

00;00;00;02 – 00;00;15;00
Dr. Krupa Playforth
Nobody can be like a master of every trade. Nobody can, like, know everything about everything. And having the humility to say, you know what? Like, I am not an expert in this. Let me help you find someone who is like. That is what makes a good health care provider.

00;00;15;03 – 00;00;38;20
Dr. Mona
Welcome back to the PedsDocTalk podcast. I’m your host, Doctor Mona, and it is the end of September, which means viruses galore. And when I see parents in my office, especially moms, there is such a feeling of guilt. So much guilt. Maybe your child has to be in child care because you work. Maybe you breastfed and you were told that breastfed babies or children won’t get sick when they actually do.

00;00;38;22 – 00;00;58;13
Dr. Mona
Or maybe you took your child to a play gym for the first time and they came down with a fever. The reality is, illness happens, and the most important thing we need to do is focus on the now. Focus on the child in front of you versus overthinking the shooter. Coulda, woulda. This is especially important if you consume content on social media.

00;00;58;13 – 00;01;21;22
Dr. Mona
Someone is always sharing an immune hack or gloating that their child never gets sick if they use X, Y, or Z, or saying it’s because you ate this or didn’t do that, or etc. etc. etc. remember, when your child is sick, it’s not a reflection of your parenting. It’s a natural part of growing up. You’re doing everything you can to love, care for, and comfort them, and that’s what matters most.

00;01;21;24 – 00;01;42;03
Dr. Mona
Kids get sick, and while it’s hard to see them and, well, it’s not your fault. Trust that your nurturing presence is what they need to heal and grow stronger. And know that this won’t be forever. And you’re doing an amazing job even when things feel tough. And remember, I have a lot of content on my YouTube channel, my website, and via blogs.

00;01;42;06 – 00;02;00;26
Dr. Mona
And so if you’re ever feeling like you want more guidance or more just general education, please use that search symbol or that magnifying glass on my website to search content by keywords, which will really help you. Whether it’s a podcast, a YouTube, or a blog. Today’s guest is a fellow pediatrician mom who gets this sentiment all too well.

00;02;01;02 – 00;02;25;01
Dr. Mona
The guilt or anxiety we see and have even felt during times of illness. I welcome Doctor Krupa play for it. She’s a pediatrician, mom and founder of her own practice, Warm Heart Pediatrics, and she’s active on social media at the pediatrician. Mom, she joins me today to tackle the negative perceptions we hear about pediatricians on social media. To set the record straight, we also discuss our limitations.

00;02;25;01 – 00;02;41;09
Dr. Mona
And if your pediatrician is a quote expert at all things like lactation, education or car seat safety, we also discuss advocacy and how to navigate. If you’re feeling frustrated or unseen at your doctor’s visits, let’s get to it. Thanks for joining me today, Doctor Krupa.

00;02;41;12 – 00;02;45;01
Dr. Krupa Playforth
I’m so excited that we are connecting me to.

00;02;45;01 – 00;03;00;14
Dr. Mona
I feel like, you know, obviously I know you even though I don’t know you because of social media. So this was a long time coming. Thank you. And I know we’re going to get into a lot of things that we hear in our practice, but also online. But before we get into all of that goodness, tell us more about yourself.

00;03;00;16 – 00;03;03;00
Dr. Mona
And also including maybe why you started one for pediatrics.

00;03;03;05 – 00;03;20;07
Dr. Krupa Playforth
Yeah. So, I, grew up in Malawi, in Central Africa, which is also called the Warm Heart of Africa. And so many, many years ago, I had this dream of opening a practice, and I bought the domain name Warm Heart Pediatrics without any idea of how it was going to happen. And then I worked in a standard practice for many years.

00;03;20;10 – 00;03;38;29
Dr. Krupa Playforth
Created the pediatrician mom and got really into, like, writing and creating content. But I was practicing and it just never felt right and never felt like I was able to provide the type of care I wanted to provide. So I jumped the gun. I took a little hiatus and created the practice that I would like to bring my kids to.

00;03;39;02 – 00;04;01;23
Dr. Mona
I love it. I am in that five year plan, by the way, and and I’ve talked to you about that like, I, I love kids, rock talk. I love my platform. But in terms of in-person clinical medicine, their dream is to have my own practice, too. So you are my my dream, my inspiration and that standpoint because I want that as well to re for our to basically rewrite what we want pediatric medicine to be, which is what you’re doing.

00;04;01;23 – 00;04;19;06
Dr. Mona
So love that. Of course I’ll be linking the resources your local to obviously a community, but you also have your own online platform as well. And so to, to start off, you know, doctor play forth and I we’re going to be talking about a lot of things that we hear about pediatricians. We don’t love it. Maybe we do.

00;04;19;08 – 00;04;40;28
Dr. Mona
And we’re not going to be able to represent all pediatricians. You know, we both have social media platforms. I know this, but we wanted to just address issues and talk about it as two pediatrician moms. So remember that before we get into that conversation. So we asked our followers what they may be frustrated with when it comes to visits, and also what they’ve heard online about pediatricians.

00;04;40;28 – 00;04;57;26
Dr. Mona
You know, and here’s some of them. And I’m just going to really briefly talk in. We’re going to dive into it the way we approach sleep, that we have no education on lactation, that they make money if they vaccinate our kids, that they have outdated feeding advice, if they don’t have any training on neurodiversity, why won’t they refer my kid?

00;04;57;26 – 00;05;15;19
Dr. Mona
They don’t know about car seats. They don’t know about childhood development. Okay. There’s like a lot of things that we don’t know that I’m hearing from online and from people. So let’s start off with being honest, and I love that we’re talking about this because I will be honest. You’re going to be honest. Again, we can’t speak for every pediatrician, but we can speak for ourselves.

00;05;15;22 – 00;05;25;11
Dr. Mona
Let’s talk about lactation education first. What do you think people should know about pediatricians and their knowledge of lactation education and how to approach it?

00;05;25;13 – 00;05;49;19
Dr. Krupa Playforth
I think that this criticism is actually pretty valid. You know, I got no lactation, education as a resident, which sounds just when you think about that as, like what that is. That sounds crazy, right? Like you should be able to, you know, troubleshoot and do at least the basics. But I had no education. My own lactation education came from trying to breastfeed three children and not succeeding at it.

00;05;49;19 – 00;06;05;21
Dr. Krupa Playforth
And just like the sort of trauma of that actually led me to start, I’m working on getting a lactation certification, but pediatricians have to do that independently. They have to decide that that’s something they want, and not everybody has the resources or the time or the ability to do that.

00;06;05;23 – 00;06;23;26
Dr. Mona
I agree, I 100% agree with this one. It’s why I also went to get my IB school, and I love that you’re doing that as well. I think it’s going to be such a huge resource for your patients. But yes, this is definitely real. So when people say you’re you’re a pediatrician did not get enough training on lactation education, I agree.

00;06;23;26 – 00;06;45;00
Dr. Mona
And I will also add that just reading about it like so, there’s so many things that we can do and we’ll get into that. You can educate yourself by reading books because you have a foundation. You cannot read yourself into knowing lactation education. Unless you are a CLC, IVC, you’ll see. And even then you have to practice it, right?

00;06;45;00 – 00;07;04;00
Dr. Mona
You have to see the patients work with the families, talk about it, see the issues. So it is more than just brushing up on knowledge in my opinion. In this category for sure. And I think it’s valid. I think, you know, there’s we’ll get into the next one, which is car seat education too. And I that’s why that’s why there’s professionals for that.

00;07;04;05 – 00;07;22;08
Dr. Mona
Yeah. I think any new parent I say, hey, look, you’re I can I provide a lot of resources on my platform. But one thing until I became an be Kelsey is that I cannot give you the most optimal lactation education. And even so, I think when you finally get into it and get your training, I think you’re going to also find your niche.

00;07;22;08 – 00;07;44;24
Dr. Mona
You know, I, I have found my niche to be pumping combo feeding education. That’s something that I feel like I’m good at. Whereas direct feeding to the breast, I’m not as good at in educating as maybe some other colleagues. So it’s kind of like how we know with pediatrics knowing our strengths and weaknesses. Even as pediatricians, I think you’re also going to find your niche and your strengths.

00;07;44;27 – 00;07;46;15
Dr. Mona
And I think that’s beauty in that as well.

00;07;46;18 – 00;08;16;14
Dr. Krupa Playforth
I do think that one of the benefits of being a pediatrician who does get lactation education, that you don’t always get from somebody who only has a lactation education, is that, you can kind of look at the whole clinical picture. Yes. I find that a lot of, you know, accounts and, and lactation providers are fantastic about this, but the lot also are very one note, and they don’t necessarily balance the the mental health of a parent, the mental health of the family, like all the different contextual things that are going on.

00;08;16;21 – 00;08;19;23
Dr. Krupa Playforth
And a pediatrician who can do that would be really helpful.

00;08;19;29 – 00;08;39;21
Dr. Mona
Well, exactly. And that’s why I think it’s a gold mine when there’s a physician, a pediatrician, mom, especially a mom, because you may have gone through that experience, whether it was being successful, quote unquote, with breastfeeding or not. So you can add the personal but also that, yes, the development, sleep education and the sleep understanding that we get.

00;08;39;21 – 00;09;03;19
Dr. Mona
But also, like you said, the whole picture, I completely agree, because when I agree with people saying online that your pediatrician doesn’t have any education on lactation education, but those same people tend to bash us in other aspects too, when if you are trained in it, you are going to be this gold mine of being able to provide this holistic approach to newborn feeding.

00;09;03;24 – 00;09;21;27
Dr. Mona
How does it impact maternal mental health? Has an impact sleep? How does it impact everything that we’re doing in those first four months when breastfeeding is really the hardest? So I, I love that and I agree with that completely. I’m excited for you that you’re going to be able to get that. Like I’m so like it’s going to be great.

00;09;21;29 – 00;09;29;06
Dr. Krupa Playforth
I can’t wait to get to like home visits with lactation, which I think would be a goal. Right? Like, yes, I would love that.

00;09;29;09 – 00;09;49;27
Dr. Mona
I, I think it’s and that’s my dream, you know, that’s why I became I did it and it was hard. I mean, the amount of hours and the, the coursework but exactly like, you know, being able to either in your office with the time that we have. And I think going into that even now, even though I have my IPC, you’ll see, I’ve spoken to my, my corporate medicine practice, and they don’t allow me time.

00;09;49;29 – 00;10;12;00
Dr. Mona
They say, oh, well, you know, you would have to you know, we have lactation consultant and I’m like, give me the hour with their families. Let me build build that and so what I’m doing is I’m basically giving, sadly, my half ass lactation education advice because I don’t have the time. And so I’m building all of this because I want to start my own practice one day, like you.

00;10;12;05 – 00;10;24;05
Dr. Mona
But I love that you’re doing that. And segueing to the next topic that I already alluded to, which is car seat education. What do you know? Do we know a lot? Should we be the experts? Are we the experts?

00;10;24;11 – 00;10;42;16
Dr. Krupa Playforth
Should we be the experts? I don’t think we should be the experts. I think that it’s important for people who have expertise in something like that because it is safety related. Right? I mean, we should know basics. We should know what the guidelines are. But, but it’s nobody can be like a master of every trade. Nobody has to know everything about everything.

00;10;42;16 – 00;10;52;19
Dr. Krupa Playforth
And having the humility to say, you know what? Like I am not an expert in this. Let me help you find someone who is like that is what makes a good health care provider.

00;10;52;21 – 00;11;14;11
Dr. Mona
I agree and don’t you feel I feel this? I love you and this is why I follow you. I feel that a lot of times our colleagues pediatrician colleagues tend to get this because of our training and because of maybe how it was fed to us that they tend to put the ego and in the front, in the front seat, reverse is what you’re describing, which I completely agree with.

00;11;14;15 – 00;11;36;28
Dr. Mona
Knowing limitations. And and then or they’re not willing to look at other perspective or the other side of something and say, I’m not the expert. I agree with you, Krupa. I don’t know, like installing a car seat. If you came to me in my office and said, doctor Mona, can you help me install this car seat, I’m going to be like, no, I want you to get a child passenger safety technician to help you.

00;11;37;02 – 00;11;53;19
Dr. Mona
Here’s some resources I can provide. And then I give, you know, my favorite online resources. Like like we know. But you’re right. We’re not masters at everything. But some of us, maybe there’s a there’s a pediatrician out there that has took extra education to become a carpet, car seat passenger safety tech.

00;11;53;19 – 00;11;54;12
Dr. Krupa Playforth
That probably is.

00;11;54;18 – 00;12;15;25
Dr. Mona
Yeah. Similar to like how me and you are, you know, in that lactation education world that then. Yeah, there’s nuance to that. But to say blanket statements that like, okay, your pediatrician doesn’t know anything. Well, there probably is some pediatricians that know. But you’re right, we are not experts in installation. But what I do believe is that we should stay on top of the most recent safety guidelines.

00;12;15;25 – 00;12;37;22
Dr. Mona
Right. You should know the guidelines. Yeah. Like, hey, rear facing as long as possible. If you’re going to be forward facing, let’s discuss the, the benefit and risk if you do that after two. I know sometimes I discuss forward facing with my children who may have, really bad car sickness. Yeah. Like, after we’ve exhausted everything and it’s a balanced discussion, like, it’s not like, oh, you’re a terrible parent for turning forward, facing it.

00;12;37;25 – 00;12;49;22
Dr. Mona
Hey, look, we’re facing is optimal. But I also know that your child’s suffering really bad. And you guys are cleaning up vomit every single day, and you’ve tried other things. Let’s try for facing, and you’re changing your seat.

00;12;49;23 – 00;13;02;12
Dr. Krupa Playforth
It’s like, yeah, for cleaning vomit out of a car seat. Like the whole car is like, smelly. Like it’s just like you have to think about, like, what is this poor family going through? Yeah, the child and the whole family. Right.

00;13;02;15 – 00;13;20;10
Dr. Mona
And so going back to what you said about the lactation educators and like that whole picture approach, what I will always say is why I will always stand up for our profession is that if it’s a good pediatrician like you or me, that it has when we’re looking at the big picture. But we also know our limitations. But we are looking at the family unit.

00;13;20;11 – 00;13;40;15
Dr. Mona
We’re saying, is this affecting their joy? Is this not helping them? And if it is, I’m going to discuss with you the benefit and risk. And that is what I think is so important in that doctor patient family relationship, which you’re providing as well. Having your own practice known, having full control over its time and narrative. I’m so I’m super excited for you.

00;13;40;17 – 00;13;40;29
Dr. Mona
But yeah.

00;13;41;01 – 00;13;57;25
Dr. Krupa Playforth
Yeah, you don’t always have time for that conversation. Right? Like there is also a safety piece if you are like, if your child is vomiting and you’re turning around while driving trying to see what’s happening, like there’s a safety piece there too. And like the only way to tease out the balance, the risks and the benefits, like you’re saying, is to have that conversation.

00;13;57;25 – 00;14;19;27
Dr. Krupa Playforth
But most people do not have time. And I do love that you talk about this as well. I think that a lot of the pediatricians that do education on social media actually are trying to battle the same issue. And so a lot of them actually are quite nuanced. But not everybody. And I think a lot of the people that are resistant to social media, it’s the same thing.

00;14;19;28 – 00;14;27;20
Dr. Krupa Playforth
It’s like a they’re also resistant to any idea of change. They’re resistant to the concept of baby, like feeding their, you know, a lot of things.

00;14;27;22 – 00;14;59;21
Dr. Mona
Oh, and I think that’s kind of a good segue to talk about feeding, right? I mean, yeah, I know and you know, that a lot of feeding advice is outdated. And we know that because we mean, you stay up to date, whether it’s through our own knowledge or through social media, whatever it may be. But I have colleagues who are still anti baby led weaning, self feeding from a young age when I’m like, listen, I’m not saying that we’re going to be unsafe here, but can we open our minds a little bit and listen and see how beneficial it can be and provide the resources so family can make safe choices?

00;14;59;21 – 00;15;13;22
Dr. Mona
Right. So, and a lot of the narrative we hear is pediatricians don’t get any education on feeding solids or also nutrition. What is your perspective from your training? I can talk about mine and maybe just being a clinician for as long as you’ve had.

00;15;13;24 – 00;15;32;15
Dr. Krupa Playforth
I think that, we do get training on some of the most important nutritional parameters, right? Like, yes, iron, for example, and like the importance of making sure that your child is not getting, straight cow’s milk, before the age of one. There are definitely some, some things, but do we get education on how to cut food?

00;15;32;17 – 00;15;51;07
Dr. Krupa Playforth
And for baby let feeding know. And I also have I still have many, many colleagues who have the attitude. Look we did periods before. We all turned out fine. So like why would you change something? But there are lots and lots of pros and cons to how how you approach introducing solids and just being willing to have a dialog.

00;15;51;07 – 00;16;08;12
Dr. Krupa Playforth
And some people are just simply not, I don’t know, what do you think? Like, I mean, yeah, it also relates to picky eating, right? Like there’s a lot of like evolving understanding of how to create a healthy relationship with food. And like that is a criticism I hear about about pediatricians all the time.

00;16;08;14 – 00;16;28;13
Dr. Mona
Now let’s take a break to hear from our sponsors. Well, early. You know, I recorded an episode with a pediatrician from India. He has over like 5 million followers on his social channels. Okay. He’s a pediatrician. And we brought this up. I talked to him about how in India, culturally, spoon feeding your child is very common until they’re basically like 18 months into.

00;16;28;13 – 00;16;52;24
Dr. Mona
Yes. Okay. And he even admitted he’s like, Mona, I need you to educate my my community about this. And I see the benefit. I mean, I I’m not again, I’m not pushing families to get out of their comfort zone too early. Like, I’m not going to ever say anything that’s not safe. But I also have done so much of my own research in my own time, using reputable resources on watching them here.

00;16;52;24 – 00;17;07;29
Dr. Mona
Solid starts is one of the biggest resources that I I give to all my families. Like hey, here’s their first for the first few database. But also I learned through their first few database about the cutting of the of the island. So I never knew that. I didn’t learn that in pediatric training because.

00;17;07;29 – 00;17;12;20
Dr. Krupa Playforth
But it was those two guys. You chose to educate yourself like you took that time because it was important to you.

00;17;12;21 – 00;17;34;08
Dr. Mona
Yes. And I think that’s another thing that a lot of the things that we’re going to discuss is also going to be your pediatrician, right? Your pediatricians desire to want to learn that information. So for me, child development and the first seven years is really important. So I’m learning about sleep. I’m learning about feeding solids. I’m learning about child behavior tantrums, managing all of that.

00;17;34;10 – 00;17;57;26
Dr. Mona
Obviously lactation education, because that’s important to me, what’s not important to me. And I’m going to be quite honest, I’m not going to do as much deep dive education into asthma. Not that I don’t think asthma is important, but because I know I can’t be the expert at everything. So I have to tell myself, okay, Mona, you really love talking about parenting, but because you love talking about parenting, you may not be able to know so much about asthma.

00;17;57;26 – 00;18;23;07
Dr. Mona
So if you’re not able to handle this asthma, you’re going to need to refer this patient to either a clinician that knows asthma better than you, or a pulmonologist that knows asthma better than you. And that’s going back to the humility piece. But I think we do a huge disservice with our a lot of colleagues who do not accept baby led weaning or the encouragement of learning more about baby led weaning and talking about, hey, what are your fears?

00;18;23;11 – 00;18;39;04
Dr. Mona
You’re afraid of choking. You’re afraid of allergies. Because those are the two big fears I think parents have when they start. Tell it. Let me talk to you. About what? How to overcome these fears. Let me talk to you about how we can make this as safe as possible for your baby. Do you know how to handle a choking incident?

00;18;39;08 – 00;18;57;12
Dr. Mona
Do you know what choking looks like versus gagging? And because we’re pediatricians, we have so much power. If we know that and also have the ability to educate families on all of that, because we’re the big we’re the we’re able to again, going back to what you said, we’re able to look at the anxiety, the mental health piece.

00;18;57;17 – 00;19;16;12
Dr. Mona
We’re able to look at how is this going to help the child behavior. And also nutritionally, I know the basics too, but I also know that if my child’s struggling with some sort of very severe picky eating issue, I’m really good at managing selective eating and picky eating. But if it’s getting really restrictive, nutritionist is coming into play.

00;19;16;17 – 00;19;21;11
Dr. Mona
Feeding therapies is coming into play because like you said, I know my limitations.

00;19;21;13 – 00;19;42;02
Dr. Krupa Playforth
Yeah. And you have the humility to say that. And I my experience with patients and parents has been I think, I think a lot of people fear that if they say, you know what, I don’t know the answer to that people will be upset with them or frustrated with them. But my experience has been the opposite. Like parents appreciate when you’re like, you know what, I don’t know, let me help you find out.

00;19;42;05 – 00;19;53;22
Dr. Krupa Playforth
Or like in the case that you just described, like the choking stuff, right? Like you could talk about the basics, but you’re not going to you’re not the expert in CPR. You are not going to do CPR training. But you can say these are the CPR resources in our community that I recommend.

00;19;53;27 – 00;20;12;12
Dr. Mona
It is, gosh, yes, I love it. I love I love this conversational range because going this is what again, going back to what I was saying about social media and the perception people have on pediatricians. And it’s a lot of times a lot of accounts, you know, they are trying to sell their own courses or sell their own resources.

00;20;12;12 – 00;20;36;00
Dr. Mona
So what they do to pitch themselves as an expert is, say, your pediatrician has no training on car seats, lactation, feeding solids. We’ll get into the sleep, but I do. Yeah. I mean, we’re admitting me and you are sitting here and admitting that we don’t know everything, but it’s not okay with me for you to make us look inferior, to sell your stuff.

00;20;36;07 – 00;20;51;17
Dr. Mona
It’s almost like me and you getting on our content and saying we could do the same thing and we don’t, right? We could. And we did need people. I know many people who don’t know enough about me, about the things that I know or the nuance that we know, but I’m not going to put you down to elevate myself.

00;20;51;17 – 00;21;10;01
Dr. Mona
And so that is where I get defensive, right where I’m like, no, no, no, I, I agree, I don’t know a lot about this stuff, but what I don’t agree with is that you’re putting my profession and my colleagues down to elevate yourself, to seem like an expert when you to you can show your expertise in other ways, like me and you do just not give the content.

00;21;10;01 – 00;21;11;08
Dr. Krupa Playforth
Showdown downtown.

00;21;11;10 – 00;21;11;29
Dr. Mona
On.

00;21;12;01 – 00;21;12;16
Dr. Krupa Playforth
Yeah.

00;21;12;18 – 00;21;14;26
Dr. Mona
Because it’s not good. Yeah.

00;21;14;28 – 00;21;37;24
Dr. Krupa Playforth
And it like interferes within your relationships with those specialists, you know, especially in your community. Like you want to be able to refer you want to be able to contact them and say, look, I have this situation. Let’s have a dialog. Help me help them. And if you feel like you are going to be attacked like that, doesn’t enable a dialog and a sort of multidisciplinary approach, which is what parents need.

00;21;37;24 – 00;21;54;15
Dr. Krupa Playforth
That is what is lacking in today’s health care. Everything is so specialized that, like, you don’t have somebody who’s like doing the bird’s eye view and that is the goal. That’s what the pediatrician should be doing now systemically. Can we do that? Like that’s a whole other conversation. But yeah. Like that’s the goal, right? Like we.

00;21;54;15 – 00;21;55;00
Dr. Mona
Are.

00;21;55;02 – 00;22;04;07
Dr. Krupa Playforth
We have expertise in the things that we have expertise on, but we also need the other professionals. But they also need us like they need our expertise too.

00;22;04;13 – 00;22;22;12
Dr. Mona
It’s a team effort. And so when you start, like you said, when you start to just denounce us and say, well, you’re your pediatrician is not an expert in X, although that’s true. Now, what you’ve done is you’ve put us down on a lower pedestal. And what that also does is for the consumer of that information, it makes them not trust their pediatrician for other things.

00;22;22;12 – 00;22;24;17
Dr. Krupa Playforth
Dangerous. So dangerous. Right.

00;22;24;17 – 00;22;43;02
Dr. Mona
Like if they hear like if I’m going to give an example, like if a car seat, I’m passing education. Absolutely. I am not an expert at car seat education. But if you say your pediatrician is not an expert, a person consuming that is going to say, yeah, my pediatrician doesn’t know that. They also probably don’t know anything else, but you’re extrapolating.

00;22;43;09 – 00;23;03;11
Dr. Mona
I may not be an expert at everything, but I again, we know our limitations, but it can it can lead to Mr.. Trust in the pediatrician patient relationship, and not only in the fact that that person may need you, the pediatrician, at some point, too. And then you’re going to be like, oh, hey, guess what? I actually said that y’all don’t know anything, but I need you for this now.

00;23;03;11 – 00;23;05;08
Dr. Mona
Like, it’s not a good look.

00;23;05;10 – 00;23;13;22
Dr. Krupa Playforth
And they have the caveats of like, you know. Yeah. Oh, if you if our things are not working, then go contact your pediatrician. Right. Like that’s, that is always there.

00;23;13;29 – 00;23;31;10
Dr. Mona
Yeah. And it’s funny because they have to put that because they’re not medical experts. Exactly. Again, we are we are the true. We are the true holistic approach. Right? When we start to look at we, we look at the issue in front of us, the health, the development and the safety of the child as a whole. Again, we may not be.

00;23;31;12 – 00;23;46;11
Dr. Mona
We may not, we may not be experts at every single nuance thing, but we are looking at the whole and that’s what we are. We are general pediatricians. We are the let me see what I can help you with. Yeah. If not, I’m going to I’m going to give you resources. I’m not going to lip. Hopefully I’m not going to leave you hanging and we’ll get into that.

00;23;46;11 – 00;24;08;08
Dr. Mona
I know we have some advocacy, comments about that now. The next one is a big one, which is, sleep. Okay. So, there’s many anti sleep training advocates that blanket us into the statement that we’re not sleep experts. And many times parents are frustrated when their pediatrician asks them, we’re, you know, how is your child sleeping, especially in those early months.

00;24;08;16 – 00;24;20;00
Dr. Mona
I’m curious how you approach sleep conversations. And also what is your background? What did we learn? What did you learn in sleep, about sleep, in your training? Or maybe just through your experience as being a pediatrician?

00;24;20;03 – 00;24;43;14
Dr. Krupa Playforth
We did a little bit of education on sleep in my residency, because we had a pediatric neurology rotation, but it was more, like really significant sleep disorders and not so much on like what is like a normal developmental trajectory of sleep. And again, that’s something that I learned on the job as a parent, but also in talking to, and learning from my patients, you know, what worked, what didn’t work, what kinds of issues are you running, running into?

00;24;43;14 – 00;25;11;15
Dr. Krupa Playforth
And I, I now have a good sense of it, but it took many years to get there. I think the problem is that there’s a lot of quote unquote experts on sleep out there that are oftentimes bashing pediatricians. Yeah, but the sleep education, sleep, certifications and things like there’s no standardization. Yeah. And, you know, they just have the time to have these conversations that we should be able to have.

00;25;11;22 – 00;25;36;06
Dr. Krupa Playforth
But, I do think that with sleep, there is also a little bit too much black and white thinking, among the pediatrician community, you know, oh, everybody should be able to sleep like, there’s this recognition that there are, like, there are situations, for example, in kids who are not neurotypical, where they’re the sleep disorders are legitimate and like, the normal things are not going to work.

00;25;36;06 – 00;25;46;02
Dr. Krupa Playforth
And you do have to think outside the box. But it could take a while to get to that point. If you’re only having like 15 minute conversations every few months or every year, right?

00;25;46;04 – 00;26;05;18
Dr. Mona
I agree with this. I, you know, I my I like to share my background because again, it’s it may look different because we trained we trained differently. So in residency, because I had such a passion for general pediatrics, I started just doing my own reading about sleep and stuff like that, but it wasn’t very heavy. And again, we learned sleep disorders like apnea.

00;26;05;21 – 00;26;38;02
Dr. Mona
You know, also also in my residency, we did learn about like neurodiversity and sleep issues because I did, I did a very deep dive into a developmental behavioral rotation because I thought, I want it. Awesome. Yeah. Because like I said, we all have different niches and my niches, development and behavior. I love development and behavior. So in that rotation, which I did multiple rotations, I did a sub II which or not sub I apologize and audition rotation which for anyone who’s not familiar is when you’re in medical school, you can kind of do these rotations even before you join residency.

00;26;38;02 – 00;27;00;19
Dr. Mona
And I did many in pediatric, pediatric behavior rotations because I was amazing. Yeah. But that being said, it’s only a rotation. And then you go into residency. My real deep dive into sleep was when I, my first job and I I’ve spoken about this before, but I worked for a practice called Tribeca Pediatrics. And people who listen to this practice are going to be like, whoa!

00;27;00;26 – 00;27;21;16
Dr. Mona
Because at Tribeca Pediatrics, the doctor that created that practice and who I worked with, he talked about sleep training babies early at two months of age. Now people listening are like, oh my gosh, that’s not safe. That’s not possible. It was very out there, right. And I joined the practice. And I’m this new fresh doctor learning, you know, assuming all of this information.

00;27;21;23 – 00;27;42;16
Dr. Mona
And I saw all these families coming in sleep training their babies at two months of age. And I’m like, All these parents are telling me that it worked okay. They did okay. Methods of sleep training, by the way. And I’m like, this is interesting. This is not anything I’ve learned. So then I swim deep diving and then I started going into all the research we have, which we know and sleep research.

00;27;42;16 – 00;28;03;03
Dr. Mona
Even in infants, there’s not a lot of research. Right. Because either you’re going to find holes either way, whether it’s pro sleep training, anti-slip training, there’s always some confounding variable because as we know with any parenting method that there’s a lot of variables. Right. Well, what did how attuned is that family during the day. Is there check ins?

00;28;03;03 – 00;28;22;05
Dr. Mona
What’s going on? It’s not clear cut. So then I started to take that. And then also with my own experience being a mother, my own experience through the last nine, ten years of practicing by myself, like, you know, out of residency and starting to see does it always work? Can it work? I moved to another practice and then I started to see, well, no, it’s not always going to work.

00;28;22;07 – 00;28;38;09
Dr. Mona
It depends on the family. It depends on are there other children. So it’s that understanding. I took what I saw, this very extreme viewpoint and I said to myself, could it work? And I a lot of my listeners know we sleep between Ryan at two and a half months with The Crime Method, and it worked for him.

00;28;38;11 – 00;28;39;10
Dr. Krupa Playforth
Which is amazing.

00;28;39;13 – 00;28;58;26
Dr. Mona
For Viera, we need to sleep train, because I implemented a lot of strategies that I have learned through the ten years of practicing and through a lot of reading. I mean, the amount of reading I’ve done to educate myself about sleep. I have not only read books that disagree with my opinion, but I’ve read books that I will you with my opinion because we.

00;28;58;26 – 00;29;01;01
Dr. Krupa Playforth
Have to read both perspectives.

00;29;01;06 – 00;29;23;01
Dr. Mona
And the frustrating thing about a lot of those accounts group, and I know you can agree, is that they’re not reading my perspective. I’m sitting there reading about accounts that are talking about co-sleeping and what they’re telling me about co-sleeping, and I’m listening. I’m saying, you know what? I can see that. And also because I have pediatrician colleagues, I have gone pediatrician colleagues that are in the medical field who have close slept.

00;29;23;05 – 00;29;41;12
Dr. Mona
I have friends who have co slept. And so in my head I’m looking at can I get that there’s risk to co-sleeping? I’m not denying that. And even the pediatrician doctor I talked to said, you know, the episode is going to go live. I we spoke about that because it’s very common in India. It’s the norm. Yeah. And I asked and I’m like, do you see safety risks?

00;29;41;12 – 00;30;01;12
Dr. Mona
He’s like, not when it’s done correctly. And I said, thank you because I need to learn this because in order to be better clinicians, we need to understand that every parent may have a different choice. Right. And if I don’t educate about the risks of co-sleeping, then that parent is going to do it on sleep on slavery. It’s like abstinence only education, right?

00;30;01;15 – 00;30;20;18
Dr. Mona
If I say don’t have sex versus let me teach you about why it’s risky to not use protection, then that person is not ever going to learn, right? Like the risks. So I think the reason I get frustrated again with those accounts that tend to be polarized against pediatricians is that they tend to be close to being accounts, right?

00;30;20;18 – 00;30;28;10
Dr. Mona
Because in in the app, we don’t recommend co-sleeping because of the things that me and you have seen. I have seen children die from.

00;30;28;10 – 00;30;34;27
Dr. Krupa Playforth
Never forget that parent cry. You never forget like I have nightmares about some of those babies.

00;30;35;02 – 00;30;56;03
Dr. Mona
Yeah. And I mean, they’re usually in the air for us, right. Rotations. Or they were stories that we heard that we tend to get we find out in our in our clinic and we’re like, wow. And we don’t, you know, we get the details that come out, whether it was, you know, the for me, most most of them have been a parent who fell asleep on an armchair or couch with their child on top of them.

00;30;56;03 – 00;31;21;11
Dr. Mona
Right. And we know that that is one of the more riskier behaviors versus, okay, in the bed, moving the pillows, all the things. But the problem that I see with sleep education out there is that it is very polarized. And even us, I think we as American pediatricians can do a better job listening to our colleagues in countries where sleep and bed sharing is more culturally common to learn more like, well, what are you telling your families?

00;31;21;11 – 00;31;43;06
Dr. Mona
Like? What are you seeing? Because I see risks, but apparently this is the norm culturally. Giving that example, the doctor I spoke to in India. Yeah. What is it that is different? And so, you know, me and him had a really great conversation because we, we wanted to learn from each other. Yeah. India they want it. They co-sleep until the kid is seven and I’m like listen, no that’s not that’s not what I’m about.

00;31;43;06 – 00;32;05;03
Dr. Mona
And I we had a funny like really balanced discussion. I said, well, I do believe that there’s benefit in teaching our child to sleep independently, and it doesn’t mean that they’re not going to love their caregiver, that there’s no bond. But I understand what you’re saying, that in a house where there’s six children and you can’t buy five different, it ends up being that everyone sleeping on the floor on a mattress, right?

00;32;05;10 – 00;32;14;18
Dr. Mona
Yeah. And so I think we need to be more balanced. But I will not ever sit here and accept being demeaned by those accounts. You know. You know, they.

00;32;14;19 – 00;32;33;20
Dr. Krupa Playforth
Didn’t get defensive. That’s the difference. And I actually love this about your account. Like if people challenge you, you don’t get defensive and aggressive and lash out. And you actually do have the humility to listen to a different perspective. Now, you may not end up agreeing with them, and that’s fine. But just being willing to have the conversation rather than shutting it down because you know what?

00;32;33;20 – 00;32;37;15
Dr. Krupa Playforth
Like this is like, disagrees with my views of no right.

00;32;37;17 – 00;32;53;07
Dr. Mona
And I and I think, you know, I’ll be honest, I have an I’m going to be I don’t know if people know this. I’ve unfollowed a lot of pediatricians with two media because they are very polarized in the way they communicate. There was one, and I’m not going to name names that basically said, here are three things that I would never do as a pediatrician.

00;32;53;13 – 00;33;17;06
Dr. Mona
I would never bed share, I get it, I personally don’t want to share. Okay. But I also know that by saying that what we’ve just done is closed off, that hundreds of thousands of families who bed share that are wonderful parents that are trying to make the best choices for their children, and now they’re going to come to us and not be honest with us.

00;33;17;08 – 00;33;18;22
Dr. Mona
And that’s that’s what’s scary.

00;33;18;27 – 00;33;19;24
Dr. Krupa Playforth
Yeah.

00;33;19;26 – 00;33;39;28
Dr. Mona
Yeah. Isn’t there going to be then they’re going to say, yep. The kids sleeping independently. Well no, they’re falling asleep on an armchair. I want the honesty. I want to know where is that baby sleeping. And you know, when I asked you like how you approach this and I’m curious what you do when I ask a family about sleep, I ask what I usually say is, do you have any concerns about how your child’s sleeping?

00;33;39;29 – 00;34;07;12
Dr. Mona
Do you have any questions? Rather than saying, is your child sleeping through the night, right? And then they say, oh, you know, he’s waking up like every four hours. But then I ask, like I do ask about, are you getting any stretches of sleep? Because to me, if a baby is waking up every hour past the age of like 2 or 3 weeks gap, there’s a issue there because either that you’re there’s either an issue that you are confusing sleep cues for hunger cues and now the baby’s getting fed when they’re actually sleepy.

00;34;07;19 – 00;34;10;01
Dr. Mona
Or is there some sort of medical issue we’re missing?

00;34;10;01 – 00;34;31;09
Dr. Krupa Playforth
So maybe they’re just going to be fed that often, which makes you think about like milk transfer and yeah, like effective. Right. Like well, so I always ask about sleep. I know that a lot of the audience is like, I wish my pediatrician wouldn’t ask about sleep, but I think sleep matters for your entire health. Yes, the data shows that it matters for immunity.

00;34;31;09 – 00;34;54;19
Dr. Krupa Playforth
It matters for development. And the shape is is very important. And so usually I leave it pretty open ended. And I say something kind of like, tell me about how sleep is going. Yeah. And that invites the parent to say as much or as little as they want, but it also helps me make sure that there’s nothing that’s like a glaring red flag that we would need to talk about.

00;34;54;21 – 00;35;15;20
Dr. Mona
And I think we said it already. I think a family hits the jackpot when they can find a pediatrician who is open to this is what we’re describing about, understands how connected sleep, mental health data and behavior are. But the reality is lactation consultants alone don’t know that sleep consultants alone don’t know that. But you know who does?

00;35;15;23 – 00;35;39;07
Dr. Mona
A pediatrician like you and me, who are getting trained in lactation education that understand the nuance of sleep? I’m not asking every family to cry it out. I’m not asking every family to do Ferber if they’re not comfortable. But what I what is important is knowing that there are options to extend sleep. We don’t have to. And the problem with a lot of these accounts is that they’re saying, you know what?

00;35;39;07 – 00;35;50;19
Dr. Mona
In the first year, just get used to the fact that they’re going to need you. You’re going to be there every every five, you know, every 20 minutes, every sleep cycle. That’s actually false information. Not for every child, maybe for every child.

00;35;50;22 – 00;35;51;02
Dr. Krupa Playforth
Yeah.

00;35;51;08 – 00;35;57;11
Dr. Mona
But you can create some habits here that can get you the sleep. If it’s what you want. You may not want.

00;35;57;13 – 00;36;13;28
Dr. Krupa Playforth
What you want. Right? Like if you if you are somebody that really just doesn’t want that, that’s totally fine. And your kid is also ultimately going to be okay. Yeah. But then we’ve got to talk about it. Okay. That means you’re not getting sleep. So how is that affecting your health and your safety? You’re driving around, right? You are driving that child around.

00;36;14;02 – 00;36;22;04
Dr. Krupa Playforth
You’re driving yourself around. You’re on the roads like there are other things that are happening that are important to be taking into account.

00;36;22;06 – 00;36;55;19
Dr. Mona
And this is a, you know, I as as as balanced as I am and as you know, I have my opinions every family that comes into my office, we discuss the the importance of creating independent sleep health by the age of one. And the reason I say this is not because I’m trying to be pushy or because whatever, it’s because I know how important sleep is just like you, and also how important it will end up being for emotional regulation as they get into this toddler years and how hard it is to teach a child who has not learned that when they get older, it’s much harder to teach a two and a half year

00;36;55;19 – 00;37;12;11
Dr. Mona
old. How come, my gosh, than it is a nine month old? Now, I know this from personal and professional experience. So when and my my families know that and they’re ready and I tell them at like the four month visit, I’m like, look, we can start talking about sleep. Let me know when you’re ready. But and then they and then they think about it.

00;37;12;11 – 00;37;34;19
Dr. Mona
And then usually my families come to me because they know by nine months we’re going to be talking about it, and I’m going to give them some tips and they’re happier. No family ever regrets teaching their child sleep, settling sleep, teaching sleep training skills, whatever you want to call it. Ever. I’ve never in my whole me neither. I’ve had a family say, doctor Mona, how dare you teach me this?

00;37;34;19 – 00;37;37;04
Dr. Mona
They come back and they’re like, I wish I would have done that sooner.

00;37;37;07 – 00;37;37;25
Dr. Krupa Playforth
Yeah.

00;37;37;27 – 00;37;42;20
Dr. Mona
Yeah. Now let’s take a break to hear from our sponsors.

00;37;42;22 – 00;38;05;23
Dr. Krupa Playforth
Yeah. And honestly, like the other thing that really surprised me as a parent of now three kids is how different sleep can be from childhood. Yeah, I feel like you still have to have that conversation every single time because each child is different now. The conversation may be shorter. And, you know, a parent that has like two kids or three kids may have more comfort with like the like their approaches or comfort like going with a different approach.

00;38;05;26 – 00;38;12;02
Dr. Krupa Playforth
But like each child is different and so you cannot have a blanket. This is a best approach.

00;38;12;08 – 00;38;31;02
Dr. Mona
Yes. And that is what I get so frustrated about with the space is that when we start to polarize education, like meaning co-sleeping, this is the best. This is what’s the biological norm. Okay, I love that you love co-sleeping, I love it. I’m happy that that’s what works for you. And you’ve looked at the benefit and risk. But what if a family does not like co-sleeping?

00;38;31;02 – 00;38;48;06
Dr. Mona
What if they’re scared? I do not like co-sleeping. I refuse to co-sleep, so I need resources for the alternative. And then on the flip side, what if a family wants to do it right? So again, we have to understand that every kid is different. And I have two children, but my children are much different sleepers. Ryan easy man.

00;38;48;06 – 00;39;10;12
Dr. Mona
I put him in that crib. Self settled himself. That’s why. That’s why I sleep. Trained him at two and a half months because I knew he was capable and that he was already stretching nine hours. Giving me an extra two hours wasn’t going to be a huge lift. Viera needed so much contact. I mean, this girl, if you tried to put her on in the crib, she’s like, mom, don’t even try.

00;39;10;14 – 00;39;17;07
Dr. Mona
You had to hold her and rock her and do that. That slow transfer to get her the ticking time bomb.

00;39;17;08 – 00;39;18;29
Dr. Krupa Playforth
Kind of like like. Yeah.

00;39;19;01 – 00;39;36;12
Dr. Mona
But but through that experience, you know, I love that we experienced that because I got to see completely different children. And if I had a third, if I had a fourth, if I had a fifth. All of them are unique. And I know that because of the work we do, I know that every patient that walks through our door is a fun, individual patient.

00;39;36;12 – 00;39;44;11
Dr. Mona
I can tell you this exciting new opportunity to be like, okay, what’s going on? How can I help you? And it’s exciting, it’s fun, it’s fun.

00;39;44;14 – 00;40;01;24
Dr. Krupa Playforth
And there are like strategies that we can offer and advice that we can give that aren’t even like in the boat of like, sleep training versus not right, like, right nighttime waking, you know, there at least in my family, if I even with my two and a half year old, if he wakes up in the night and I go in, it is game over for everybody, like he will be awake.

00;40;01;24 – 00;40;17;08
Dr. Krupa Playforth
He will not let me leave. Yes, I will not. Yes. So so my my husband has to go in and I’m just like, you know what? This is what I say as a pediatrician, that you have to go ahead. And like, he goes in and then, you know, he can actually settle him more effectively, I think because my son knows that it will work.

00;40;17;15 – 00;40;29;17
Dr. Krupa Playforth
Like, yes, it works. And so, like, there’s little things like that, little tweaks that you can make that aren’t a cry it out versus not cry it out, etc.. There’s just like little management tips that you can give.

00;40;29;20 – 00;40;50;17
Dr. Mona
I love it. And again, I, I love that we connect on that. And I hope our listeners are really resonating with this because yeah, it’s not that we are against what we’re against is being true to my profession. I can tell you that. And what I am against is this polarization and on both sides. And I’m not going to deny that pediatricians do it.

00;40;50;19 – 00;41;13;28
Dr. Mona
And again, even if I know something to be safe, unsafe using that terminology, it is about acceptance because I don’t want a family coming in and not being forthcoming with me because that has lost trust. And we need trust in every relationship. And if you’re not being honest with me, I can’t really help you. And it’s not that my advice is not going to go anywhere if you’re not being honest with me, you know?

00;41;14;01 – 00;41;32;14
Dr. Krupa Playforth
So the other thing that I think about in terms of trust and honesty, though, is that it goes both ways. So part of like my goal with my patients is that I am going to sometimes tell you things that maybe you do not want to hear. I am and I need us to be able to have a dialog about that because yes, there are absolutely risks to bed sharing.

00;41;32;14 – 00;41;52;20
Dr. Krupa Playforth
Right. And if a patient is talking to me about that, I’m going to be upfront with them. I’m not going to sugarcoat it because like, yes, you have to know the risks. And you’re like you said, like a lot of people just don’t appreciate that. And I will talk about it, but I also want to talk about it in a context where we can have a dialog, and understand what’s going on in your house.

00;41;52;22 – 00;42;10;08
Dr. Mona
Oh, I agree, well, we have one more thing that I want to talk about, which we could probably talk about for two episodes is, pivoting to vaccines. Okay, so now I’m actually very interested because now you own your own practice so you can speak to this working for your own practice. And also for me working for a corporate, clinical medicine practice.

00;42;10;08 – 00;42;35;18
Dr. Mona
So, there’s a lot of issues on social, and it’s overwhelming. I’m not I know you agree that it’s actually a huge source of anxiety for me. It’s a huge source of wanting to hit. And it actually affects me. And I’m I’m getting teary eyed because I’ve had to take a lot of step back because although I want to be a good science communicator, the amount of like anti-vax sentiment and there’s a difference between anti-vax and being vaccine hesitant, right?

00;42;35;19 – 00;42;58;27
Dr. Mona
Vaccine hesitancy is I have questions, doctor. Talk to me. Anti-vax is toxin poison poison poison. Yeah. Not even giving me an opportunity to teach you. In any case, one of the big perceptions that we’re going to talk about is that we make more money if we promote vaccines or are paid by Big Pharma to inject your children. And this is why they’re pushing and they’re pharma pushers.

00;42;58;27 – 00;43;04;05
Dr. Mona
I would love to hear your perspective being a solo practice owner and then I can offer mine as well.

00;43;04;07 – 00;43;28;05
Dr. Krupa Playforth
Oh my gosh, vaccines are so hard for me as a solo doc. Because they’re impossible to get and they are so expensive. And basically I am going to make a not even a minor loss with two month vaccines, a allow $600 so that four months, same at six months, and I’m going to make a loss on that, if I can get them, which is also hard to do.

00;43;28;07 – 00;43;55;00
Dr. Krupa Playforth
And even having been in a bigger practice in the past, like nobody was paying us to vaccinate kids, I vaccinate kids because I believe that that is the safest, best choice for them. And it is what I did with my own kids and one of my promises to like my practice, my members, my patients, is I’m not going to make recommendations for you that aren’t things that I would be prepared to do or have done for my own patient and for my own kids.

00;43;55;03 – 00;44;01;23
Dr. Krupa Playforth
But that is just a myth. I don’t know, I mean, no big check from from Big Pharma is coming my way. You know.

00;44;01;23 – 00;44;21;20
Dr. Mona
What? But you know why I get so frustrated is that I don’t think people realize that pediatricians are the general. Pediatricians are the lowest paid doctor of any doctor. Like, do we not? Do they not realize that, like, yeah, I’m not talking salaries, but I make less money than I’m sure people like for our I make less money than what people make at Starbucks.

00;44;21;27 – 00;44;27;27
Dr. Mona
Like I’m being quite free. Yes, yes. And because when you think of the benefits, they get better health care benefits, I get nothing.

00;44;28;01 – 00;44;34;20
Dr. Krupa Playforth
So I probably went into it with loans, like. Right. I went into this with like $250,000 in loans.

00;44;34;25 – 00;44;57;02
Dr. Mona
Yes. Yeah. So yes, that especially when I was paying back my my debt, I was making nothing about it. And so it frustrates me because I’m like, you would think that then if that was the case, like, let’s see, let’s use logic. If I was getting paid by Big Pharma or my pediatricians practice was getting paid by Big Pharma to push vaccines on your kid, I would not be practicing because I would be on my yacht in the middle of the Bahamas.

00;44;57;04 – 00;45;20;14
Dr. Mona
Okay? Like I’d be. I wouldn’t be practicing, I love it, I love being a doctor, even if I was wealthy. But I wouldn’t like why would I be here if I’m making money from Big Pharma? So from a, you know, you already said that there is a loss from our perspective. I don’t know where this narrative came from, but when we see patients in our office from a clinical corporate medicine standpoint, we get paid more for preventative visits.

00;45;20;14 – 00;45;44;27
Dr. Mona
What that means is insurance companies reimburse us more for well visits than they do for sick visits. And part of well visits are vaccines. So it’s not that we’re getting paid more because we’re injecting vaccines, and it’s this big pharma cut that we get. It’s that we’re doing preventative medicine education. And the goal in any health care system should be putting more energy and money into preventative medicine.

00;45;45;05 – 00;46;08;28
Dr. Mona
So that is why you may think that yes, there could be more money getting paid, but it’s not the sort of oh yeah, hey guys, can you just give them extra vaccines and then we’ll cut you this check? Absolutely not. I mean, ridiculous and like you said, I would never, ever. I mean, every pediatrician I know, every position ever recommends something for your child that I would not recommend for my own.

00;46;09;01 – 00;46;26;16
Dr. Mona
And so it’s such a, it’s such a it’s it’s very defeating hearing that commentary. And, and of course, there’s so many other anti-vax commentary that we don’t get any education. We don’t know how to read the inserts and all the stuff, like they they have a whole playbook, and I would love to get my hand on this playbook so that I can like, so I can debunk everything.

00;46;26;16 – 00;46;42;08
Dr. Mona
But I don’t have the mental energy now, but they’re always coming out with some other play, like recently. The one that’s going around right now is, at the time of this recording is why do pediatricians say that you have to introduce one fluid at a time, but yet they inject your baby with them and vaccines at a time.

00;46;42;10 – 00;47;00;20
Dr. Mona
And I’m like, yo, yo, yo, let’s let’s backtrack here. First of all, no one’s doing eight injections at a time. It’s three injections. Maybe then it combined various things. Okay. Yep. And also we don’t even to get into that. I have a whole video coming about that, but they’re like, they think that they’ve become so woke and lit, and I’m like, no, guys.

00;47;00;20 – 00;47;08;21
Dr. Mona
Like, we’re trying to keep your kids from getting sick. Like, we see these illnesses, we see pertussis outbreaks, we see measles, our measles.

00;47;08;21 – 00;47;11;22
Dr. Krupa Playforth
And measles right now. Right. It’s terrifying. It’s not.

00;47;11;24 – 00;47;22;25
Dr. Mona
And it’s not because of just the fact that this is all just games. We don’t want to see your kids die or get really sick from these vaccine preventable illnesses. So, yeah, I’m gonna talk to you about Africa.

00;47;22;25 – 00;47;57;10
Dr. Krupa Playforth
And, my dad was a doctor there, and, I used to help out in his clinic, and we saw people who had polio that were, like, paralyzed. And I just know, like, knowing the reality of what some of these diseases can look like. But the other thing that scares me about, like, the return of these vaccine preventable illnesses is I don’t know, I mean, I think I would be able to, to recognize measles, but I’ve never seen it, you know, like you said, sometimes book learning is not the same as, like, seeing something in person.

00;47;57;10 – 00;48;25;27
Dr. Krupa Playforth
And there is a whole, like, generation of pediatricians that has not seen these vaccine preventable illnesses, which has been wonderful except for if they’re coming back. And so I think that that’s a recipe then for like once we start to see outbreaks, that those outbreaks are going to spread because things are not recognized quickly enough. And I’m just sort of worried about the direction that health is going, that child health preventive health is going, if this is already what we’re seeing.

00;48;25;29 – 00;48;43;20
Dr. Mona
Yeah, I seen measles once, and it was because the old practice I worked at there were some families who delayed vaccination. And, you know, we had policies, but some people sometimes fall through cracks. Right, right. And yeah, so we did see a measles case and I’ll never forget it. I’ve also seen pertussis, which I’m not.

00;48;43;20 – 00;48;44;24
Dr. Krupa Playforth
Sure if I’ve seen pertussis.

00;48;44;24 – 00;49;14;25
Dr. Mona
I’ve seen I’ve seen him meningitis two times. I follow cervical cancer as a meaning older children or old like a young adult, that we’ve had to remove her entire female organs because she had cervical cancer. So again, these are all vaccine preventable illnesses. Right. And so you’re never going to forget those patients. And I think one message that I always like to remind anyone listening, I don’t think people realize that as pediatricians, we’re also not only are we getting recommendations from the CDC and AP, but we are not robots.

00;49;14;25 – 00;49;32;12
Dr. Mona
What I mean by that is we get recommendations, right? We see what’s going on, whether it’s the Covid vaccine, flu vaccine. We also talk to our families and then we administer these vaccines. And then part of my job, every time a family comes back, how did your child do with the vaccines when they have a fever, what side effects did they have?

00;49;32;16 – 00;49;51;13
Dr. Mona
This is my own diligence in confirming that there’s vaccine safety. I know that they’re safe and the benefits outweigh the risks, but I am doing my due diligence to make sure that there’s communication. Hey, did your child have any reaction? Because we know that vaccines are, in a sense, medication, right? Meaning they’re not completely free and.

00;49;51;13 – 00;50;10;11
Dr. Krupa Playforth
Nothing is free and nothing is like completely risk free. But the benefits outweigh the risks, I think, in my practice. One of the things I really love that I’m able to do now is that I have, a texting app. It’s my compliance. And so I can, like, text my patients the day after a vaccine, and I do.

00;50;10;11 – 00;50;24;23
Dr. Krupa Playforth
And how do they do? You know, just do it. Or if something comes up, they can just text me. And I think that that being able to have that access, makes everybody give everyone peace of mind. Me and the parents.

00;50;24;26 – 00;50;28;11
Dr. Mona
You’re making me want to like, stop this recording and just start my practice tomorrow.

00;50;28;14 – 00;50;53;23
Dr. Krupa Playforth
I will help you. It is the best I tell you. This week, I. Yesterday I went home and I said to my husband, I feel like I am finally, like making a meaningful difference with every patient I see. I mean, I was in tears because like the patients I’ve seen this week and there’s so few, but the patients I have seen this week, I have made a meaningful difference for and, for at least the one year they change the trajectory of our health.

00;50;53;23 – 00;50;58;26
Dr. Krupa Playforth
And like, I was like, in tears because it just, like, is so sad as.

00;50;58;28 – 00;50;59;19
Dr. Mona
Of.

00;50;59;21 – 00;51;03;09
Dr. Krupa Playforth
Now. Am I going to make a lot of money? Do it? Absolutely not. I’m probably not.

00;51;03;11 – 00;51;23;21
Dr. Mona
But but yes, yes, but you’re going to get you’re getting right. You’re obviously you’re doing your the integrity is there. And that’s exactly what I love. Well okay. So I guess my final message would be knowing what we just talked about. If a family’s feeling unseen, frustrated, whatever it may be with their pediatricians, what would you say to that family?

00;51;23;21 – 00;51;29;12
Dr. Mona
How can they approach it? Or maybe what should they have ready to talk to their pediatrician about when they go into visits?

00;51;29;15 – 00;52;11;25
Dr. Krupa Playforth
Yeah, you’re you’re like this as well. I know that you believe in this, but I’m a big believer in assuming positive intent. And starting off, any conversation with the expectation that the person that you’re talking to has a positive, wants to help. You know, when you start off, like, aggressive and antagonistic for any conversation, whether it’s like in your house, with your kids, with your spouse, with, like, you know, someone like out in the world, like you’re never going to make as much headway as if you can sit and, like, understand a little bit what their perspective is and that having that attitude makes for a more productive, meaningful conversation.

00;52;11;27 – 00;52;24;00
Dr. Krupa Playforth
It I do recommend coming in with talking points or like a list of questions, and being honest if like you don’t agree with something, but being honest respectfully and you should expect the same back.

00;52;24;03 – 00;52;44;21
Dr. Mona
Yeah, yeah. What do you think? Oh, yeah. Respect. Like I just had a post that I had done earlier this year about like respect, respect, connection and trust, right? I mean, that is important in any relationship, right? Not only with the parent child but with, yeah, maybe your partner and also definitely with, a pediatrician. Right. It’s it’s a relationship.

00;52;44;21 – 00;52;59;28
Dr. Mona
And hopefully this person is going to be with you until your child’s 21 years old. I mean, that’s a huge person in your child’s life. Yeah. So I don’t take this relationship lightly. I have a lot of pride in the role that I do. Yeah, I know that I’m part of this person’s family and I become part of their family.

00;53;00;05 – 00;53;17;22
Dr. Mona
Yeah. I think that’s really important. And, yeah, I love that. You know, there’s that saying that you have to connect before you. Correct? Like when we’re connecting, like, for example, the bed sharing. Right? I, you know, I see why this is something really important for you. And I can see that and I I’m sure you love the closeness and I just want to remind you that you’re doing amazing things.

00;53;17;22 – 00;53;38;17
Dr. Mona
And I just want to go over some benefits and risks of the situation, you know, and I, I do a lot of that. And sadly, in corporate medicine I don’t have the time always. Right. So like you said, you feel the happiest you felt I feel happy because I have pedes doc talk like Pete’s doctor gives me the ability to share all of this information on podcasts and YouTube and all of that.

00;53;38;17 – 00;53;48;11
Dr. Mona
But in a clinical standpoint, I’m sad. I’m struggling. Like I go to work and when I go to work, I go home and I cry, and I in a good way, not in a good way like you do. Okay?

00;53;48;11 – 00;54;06;16
Dr. Krupa Playforth
Like I used to do it. I used to do just like that I would works. I was only working three days a week for a long time after I had kids, but like, it would take me a day to recover from each work day because I was so, like exhausted and burnt out and so like, I’m working more hours now, but like, I just don’t have that feeling anymore.

00;54;06;18 – 00;54;21;18
Dr. Mona
Yeah. I mean, and you know, I, I only work one day a week clinically. Everything else is admin and not talk. And even then I’m like, I come home and I’m just a zombie because I’m like, I like you said, I feel like I’m not able to have the full time because of just, again, insurance, logistics and all that.

00;54;21;21 – 00;54;37;20
Dr. Mona
Having to see so many patients to just even meet an overhead because big Pharma checks are not coming, y’all. So for us, so in order for us to even make even and pay our employees and not even that much, by the way, sadly, that’s why we can’t hire employees, because they can get paid more in retail than anything else.

00;54;37;24 – 00;54;58;13
Dr. Mona
Anything else like being an Ma in an office? It becomes a huge thing. So, you know, I think communication connection is key. I think having a list is always helpful. And then the last thing which I know we’ve spoken to and alluded to is if you’re not feeling seen, if you’re not feeling heard, communicate that I really appreciate you, but I feel like you’re not listening or you know what I’m saying.

00;54;58;18 – 00;55;22;01
Dr. Mona
And if you’re not feeling that switching providers and it’s okay bad. I don’t know why people feel so bad. I don’t feel bad. Like if someone doesn’t get along with me and if it’s a repetitive thing, like if I’m losing patients left and right. And of course I’m going to question, yeah, but if I’m not. So if but if you don’t like me for whatever reason or if I don’t mesh well with your parenting style, then find somebody else.

00;55;22;01 – 00;55;38;06
Dr. Mona
But I don’t want you to feel that you’re stuck in this relationship. It is a relationship because you should never feel bullied. You should never feel unseen. So like you would with any partner, you should want to enjoy seeing your pediatrician. In my opinion, you should be.

00;55;38;09 – 00;55;57;08
Dr. Krupa Playforth
That person should not dread it. You should not dread it like it should be. Like a jolly time. Yeah. No. I think sometimes I hear from patients that, like, are trying to switch like pediatricians within the same practice and they feel really bad about it. But I think most pediatricians understand, like, I have a personality, like there are people I will click with and there are people that I will not click with.

00;55;57;08 – 00;56;15;02
Dr. Krupa Playforth
And it doesn’t mean that there’s anything wrong with me or anything wrong with them. It’s just like we didn’t gel for whatever reason, and that’s okay. Like, I don’t take it personally if somebody recognizes that and like, moves to somebody else, because my goal ultimately is for their child to thrive. And if their child will thrive with a different pediatrician, that’s fine.

00;56;15;09 – 00;56;28;12
Dr. Mona
Yes. But it’s so interesting some going back to this, I think one message I have for any pediatricians listening is we gotta let go of the ego. I think there’s a lot of ego in medicine, and that includes this. If someone doesn’t like you, let it go.

00;56;28;12 – 00;56;29;04
Dr. Krupa Playforth
It’s okay.

00;56;29;09 – 00;56;47;19
Dr. Mona
It’s okay. Obviously, like I said, if it’s a repetitive thing, you need to do some soul searching as to why that’s happening. And the number two is staying open to learning other perspective. And I think all of us could do better at that. Whether pediatrician, sleep consultant, speech therapist, I don’t care. We just need to be better at listening and looking at other people’s opinions.

00;56;47;19 – 00;56;51;00
Dr. Mona
It doesn’t mean that we have to assume positivity.

00;56;51;03 – 00;56;53;01
Dr. Krupa Playforth
Yeah, it’s the same thing.

00;56;53;03 – 00;56;57;05
Dr. Mona
Yes. It’s so hard. I love this conversation.

00;56;57;07 – 00;56;58;22
Dr. Krupa Playforth
I feel like you going and going.

00;56;58;26 – 00;57;17;21
Dr. Mona
Yes, yes, I you know, it’s funny. I do like to keep my episodes under 30, but I’m like, this is going long and it’s going to be good and I love it. And thank you, thank you. You already kind of said that final message, for everyone listening about that, assume positive intent. Where can people go to find you to stay connected if they’re local to you in your area of practice?

00;57;17;25 – 00;57;19;05
Dr. Mona
Give us all those details.

00;57;19;05 – 00;57;37;28
Dr. Krupa Playforth
Yeah. So I am at the pediatrician mom on social media, on Instagram, and my website is the pediatrician mom.com. And then my practice, I’m in Northern Virginia and accepting new patients. And it’s warm heart pediatrics. And actually like in the front page I talk a lot about like my vision of what an ideal pediatrician patient relationship should look like.

00;57;38;05 – 00;57;50;23
Dr. Krupa Playforth
So if people are like, you know, I’m wondering what that should look like, even if you’re not local to the area, I think might actually might be like a good piece of reading, to take with you as you start looking at pediatricians.

00;57;50;26 – 00;58;00;14
Dr. Mona
I will be attaching all of this to the show notes, everybody. So again, her Instagram handle, her website and all of those resources that she mentioned. And thanks again for joining me today.

00;58;00;16 – 00;58;01;17
Dr. Krupa Playforth
Thank you so much.

00;58;01;20 – 00;58;23;03
Dr. Mona
Thank you, Doctor Krupa, for for joining me. And I have known Doctor Krupa online through the pandemic. And then I finally met her this May at a conference. And she is exactly who she is in person. And I was so glad to have her on my show and to know her online and in real life. And like we said, we are all on the same team here online and also in real life.

00;58;23;03 – 00;58;44;00
Dr. Mona
And if you feel like your pediatrician is not on your team, it’s time to reevaluate the relationship so you get the most out of this important connection. It’s one that will last you from your child’s birth to 21 years of age. If you love this episode, make sure you leave a review, share it on social media, or comment on my social media post so that more people can discover this episode and the show.

00;58;44;07 – 00;59;09;16
Dr. Mona
And don’t forget to check out the post for giveaway of one of my courses and a book for feeding solids from Doctor Krupa and 101 before one next week in honor of ADHD Awareness Week, I welcome two of the lovely founders of the Childhood Collective, a platform to help support parents as they parent kids with ADHD. And we are talking all about parenting, ADHD, make sure to tune in for this incredible conversation.

00;59;09;22 – 00;59;11;25
Dr. Mona
Have a wonderful week ahead and stay well.