In our lives we will at some point have to receive vaccines, a medical procedure, or do something that is out of our comfort zone. For some children, getting a vaccine or medical procedure can be tough. I invited Katie Taylor who is a certified child life specialist, CEO of Child Life on Call, And the host of The Child Life on Call Podcast to discuss how we can approach vaccines and medical procedures with our child.

We discuss:

• How to prepare our children for vaccines and other medical procedures
• What NOT to say
• Focusing on development to aid in approach

If you’d like to find out more about Katie Taylor and Child Life on Call, visit the website at Childlifeoncall.com, listen to the Podcast or follow her on Instagram @childlifeoncall

00;00;01;01 – 00;00;15;16

Katie Taylor

It’s normal, right, to have that fear of like, I don’t want to tell my child they have to have a shot. Like, I just don’t want to do it. I don’t want to scare them. And that’s the first thing I want parents to know is like that gut reaction you have of not wanting your child to be scared is very normal.

 

00;00;16;03 – 00;00;30;25

Katie Taylor

What we don’t want, though, is for our child to either have a mistrust because we’re not telling them about what’s happening or to to kind of set this trajectory ahead of time that, you know, we’re not going to be honest about something scary that’s going to happen in their life.

 

00;00;30;27 – 00;00;56;06

Dr. Mona

Hey everyone. Welcome back to the PedsDocTalk podcast. This podcast continues to grow because of you and your reviews, and I am continuously blown away by the amazing guests that we get to educate and empower you. So thank you for tuning in, leaving your reviews, and being here today. Today’s guest is Katie Taylor. She is a certified Child Life Specialist, CEO of Child Life on Call, and the host of the Child Life on Call podcast.

 

00;00;56;12 – 00;01;06;00

Dr. Mona

And we are talking all about how to prepare our children for medical procedures and how to explain these things to them. Thank you so much for joining me today, Katie.

 

00;01;06;02 – 00;01;18;06

Katie Taylor

Thank you so much for having me. I’m such a big fan and so excited to share some helpful tips that hopefully parents can walk away today. Just feeling more confident and talking to their kids about medical things.

 

00;01;18;08 – 00;01;34;11

Dr. Mona

The reason I’m so excited about this is that I don’t think many parents know what a child like specialist does, and we’ll go over that because you’re going to explain that to my listeners. But I know because I went through residency, and that is when I first got introduced to child life Specialist. And I think they hold a extremely valuable place.

 

00;01;34;11 – 00;01;52;20

Dr. Mona

I cannot tell you I have tons of stories of how child life specialists have really helped my job as a pediatrician, so I’m so grateful that people can learn about what you do. Realize that it is a role in a medical care of a child. So first off, tell me what it is that a child a specialist does and why you became one.

 

00;01;52;22 – 00;02;19;26

Katie Taylor

Yeah, thank you so much. Always means so much when pediatricians and physicians like yourself can pinpoint those interactions with child life specialists and just validate, the important work of the profession, because not many people do know what we are. So we are basically psychosocial experts in child development. And so we know the impact of illness, hospitalization, injury, challenging life events on children throughout the lifespan.

 

00;02;19;29 – 00;02;43;02

Katie Taylor

We typically work in children’s hospitals. So that’s why, a lot of residents and clinicians know and use us there. But we’re also in the community now doing virtual work. Some of us work in hospice. We even have child life specialists in some school districts now. So our profession just continues to grow as we really see how transferable our skills are in working with kids.

 

00;02;43;05 – 00;02;45;29

Dr. Mona

Awesome. And why did you become a child specialist?

 

00;02;46;05 – 00;03;10;06

Katie Taylor

Yeah, so I have this amazing mother who drilled into us from the very beginning of our life that we were put on this planet to make the world a better place. And she not only said that, but she showed us that, she is a big child advocate and, child abuse prevention. So just kind of watching her and seeing how passionate she was about her work, really kind of ingrained that in me.

 

00;03;10;06 – 00;03;28;08

Katie Taylor

And I’m a Penn Stater. And they have a big dance marathon that raises money for Hershey Medical Center. And it was when I was volunteering in college that I met a child life specialist, and I said, you, you, you’re it. That’s everything I had in my head that I want. So I really fell into it that way.

 

00;03;28;08 – 00;03;40;03

Katie Taylor

And, have really been blessed with an amazing career, both clinically and now, non-clinical, being able to work for child life on call. So I’ve worked in big children’s.

 

00;03;40;03 – 00;03;40;20

Dr. Mona

Hospitals.

 

00;03;40;20 – 00;03;53;17

Katie Taylor

And also really small children’s hospitals, within the community. So I’ve been able to see how empowering parents and caregivers really can make a such a difference. And the caregivers role within the care team.

 

00;03;53;19 – 00;04;11;20

Dr. Mona

And like you said, my experience with child like specialists is really was something that happened in residency. You mentioned that that that is how a lot of pediatricians come to learn about child like specialists. And this is obviously not what we’re talking about. But I think one of the best stories I have is we had a lot of teenagers or young children coming in with functional abdominal pain.

 

00;04;11;20 – 00;04;29;26

Dr. Mona

So functional abdominal pain for anyone who’s not familiar is abdominal pain that does not have an organic cause. Like it’s not anything medical that we can find. We’ve done all the work of all the things we’ve excluded everything. And a lot of it has to do with a psychosocial component. So anxiety can manifest as functional abdominal pain. The child is functioning, but they have this abdominal pain that comes and goes.

 

00;04;30;03 – 00;04;54;27

Dr. Mona

So we really utilized our child life specialists very heavily in these situations when these patients were admitted. Whether it’s a parental choice to be admitted or we’re doing a workup and so many child’s specialists who would come through really helped the parent understand, like the big picture. It’s almost like your therapist, but you’re not you’re obviously not a therapist, but just the overall mind, body, spirit of a child is what I really appreciate that.

 

00;04;55;01 – 00;05;13;21

Dr. Mona

Hey, we’re coming to really just understand and help you. They would bring like this whole essential oil kit that basically would have like lavender sense that they would be able to smell whenever they’re feeling nervous or anxious about their pain. And it really solidified why I went to school, because I went to the other school because of this whole how we look at things as a whole.

 

00;05;13;21 – 00;05;36;03

Dr. Mona

But I also saw that in practice with all the people like the child like specialist. And I was like, this is amazing. Like, I need to have a child like specialist on my podcast because yes, you do so much more than what I just mentioned. But that to me was like, yeah, we need this. We need the families to understand how we’re going to approach the situation that we care about your child’s pain, that there’s things that we can consider, to help alleviate the nerves and discomfort.

 

00;05;36;03 – 00;05;54;10

Dr. Mona

And then in this conversation, how to prepare children for medical procedures, vaccine surgeries. You know, they’re going into the O.R. like, these conversations are so important. And, yes, it’s going to need a little more nuance based on each situation and the temperament of your child. But again, it’s such an important conversation to have today.

 

00;05;54;12 – 00;06;17;25

Katie Taylor

Sure. And I think you bring up such an important part about like looking at the family system and the child as a whole. And it really does take a whole village to really care for a child. And for me, I’m really passionate about parents really being at the center of that and letting them know they do have control and they can really make a positive impact, especially when you’re thrown into an experience where you don’t know anybody who’s taking care of your child.

 

00;06;17;25 – 00;06;37;20

Katie Taylor

You’ve never met them before. Maybe it’s a pediatrician you’ve seen once before. But, you know, how do you advocate for yourself? How do you advocate for your child when you feel so overwhelmed and not to mention concerned and scared? And so just really being able to look at that whole family and teach parents how to make a difference right then and right there.

 

00;06;37;23 – 00;06;55;03

Dr. Mona

Absolutely. And for this conversation, I obviously wanted to ask, maybe, you know, how we can prepare our kiddos for these things. And if there is an example of maybe a common medical procedure that you would love to bring up as the topic, and then maybe we can discuss how, you know, a parent can prepare that child, depending on the age.

 

00;06;55;03 – 00;07;00;16

Dr. Mona

Is there something that you would say, you’re like, I commonly do this, or I commonly have to prepare a child for x, Y, and Z?

 

00;07;00;19 – 00;07;21;04

Katie Taylor

Yeah, absolutely. So I think probably the most common thing we can talk about are either vaccinations or an IV, and both are pretty similar, an IV or a blood draw, which would happen in a hospital or in a clinic setting, of course. But that vaccination, that poke, it’s really it’s just yeah, it’s normal, right, to have that fear of like, I don’t want to tell my child they have to have a shot.

 

00;07;21;05 – 00;07;46;06

Katie Taylor

Like, I just don’t want to do it. I don’t want to scare them. And that’s the first thing I want parents to know is like that gut reaction you have of not wanting your child to be scared is very normal. What we don’t want, though, is for our child to either have a mistrust because we’re not telling them about what’s happening or to to kind of set this trajectory ahead of time that, you know, we’re not going to be honest about something scary that’s going to happen in their life.

 

00;07;46;06 – 00;08;10;12

Katie Taylor

So once we can kind of get over that initial normal fear of not wanting to tell them scary or uncomfortable information and realizing why it’s important to do so in a really caring and comforting way. It completely gives you your power back. So let’s talk about perks and vaccinations. So I can give you an example. I have a three year old myself and also an almost seven year old.

 

00;08;10;13 – 00;08;27;23

Katie Taylor

So we have been dealing with the Covid vaccine. Yeah. And having to get two of those right. Which is not as normal as the one vaccine. So the first thing we do is you really want to look at the age of your child. So kiddos as young as nine months can really benefit from preparation. And I’ll give you an example of that.

 

00;08;27;23 – 00;08;53;03

Katie Taylor

Like when I’m in the hospital and a child’s about to go back to surgery, even if they’re nine months old, I give them the anesthesia mask to play with. They chew on it, we throw it on the ground, we catch bubbles with it. We’re taking this ordinarily scary unknown thing and we’re turning it into something fun. So I’m not necessarily expecting a nine month old to 18 month old to really understand what’s about to happen, but I am getting them familiar with something.

 

00;08;53;03 – 00;09;15;06

Katie Taylor

So that’s what I would say. When you are doing medical play, getting that doctor kit out, saying the word stethoscope, saying the word alcohol wipe, you’re desensitizing these very not normal things and you’re bringing it and integrating it into a way that is both child friendly and digestible for them, not when they’re in a moment of chronic stress.

 

00;09;15;08 – 00;09;33;01

Dr. Mona

Well, thank you so much for bringing up the being truthful or not threatening. The other thing that I would add, that’s the things that I see commonly in my office, right? The threat of a doctor or dentist or someone who’s, going to be helping a child, that if you don’t behave, then I’m going to give you a shot.

 

00;09;33;01 – 00;09;54;11

Dr. Mona

Or if you don’t do this, then the doctor’s going to give you a shot. Do you want a shot? Do you want to like using it as a threat or it creates a sort of this is a bad thing, and I’m going to do this because I’m in trouble. And then that last comment you mentioned about the being truthful, like I commonly see parents say, and I think they mean, well, don’t get me wrong, they’ll say it’s not going to hurt, but I don’t love that because it may hurt, like it may hurt.

 

00;09;54;11 – 00;10;10;13

Dr. Mona

And I don’t want us to say it’s not going to hurt. And then it did hurt. And then they’re like, well, you lied to me, right? Like exactly what you said. And when parents, when kids ask me like they’ll say doctor like doctor I have to shot, is it going to hurt? And I’m honest. And I say, sweetie, it may pinch a little bit and we are going to be right here with you.

 

00;10;10;13 – 00;10;27;13

Dr. Mona

Mommy is right here. Or whoever’s with with the child and that you get a big hug afterwards. But I think you’re going to be so brave. But I think it’s such an important concept of being truthful and also not scaring a child or threatening them with these vaccines. Because then that just loses trust in the medical system, and then we’re at a loss.

 

00;10;27;13 – 00;10;39;08

Dr. Mona

You know, we look like the bad guy. We look like the person that they go to. They get punished when that’s not what we want. We don’t want children to feel punished when they come to the doctor. They’ve been going to the doctors for their health, not for their discipline, if you will.

 

00;10;39;10 – 00;11;00;14

Katie Taylor

Oh, totally. Yeah, I have heard this more times than I can count. And so, you know, if you have said something like this before, you’re not alone. And now we can learn from it. So I think the way you responded was perfect. So like being honest. Yes. You know what? It might pinch a little bit. I like giving it back to the child and say, Will you tell me what you think it feels like?

 

00;11;00;14 – 00;11;15;07

Katie Taylor

I want to know what it feels like to you, and kind of giving them the chance to make up their own words and their own opinions about what it’s going to be like, and also pulling from past experiences. Well, have you had a shot before and what was that like? You know, what was a hard part about that?

 

00;11;15;07 – 00;11;36;25

Katie Taylor

What was the easy part? You know, one of the things I like about shots is they’re over really fast. You know, the needle goes inside, we push medicine and the needle comes out abandoned, goes on, and I’m done. So, you know, you can share your experiences and you can prepare them. Everything I said was honest. But I’m also not like, we’re going to poke you with the needle and it’s going to suck, you know?

 

00;11;36;25 – 00;11;44;21

Katie Taylor

So there’s kind of this way that we can use language to be honest, but not scare the child.

 

00;11;44;23 – 00;11;55;03

Dr. Mona

And I love the language that you just mentioned. Is there something that may help besides that? I mean, things like role play or what are some other strategies besides the language of the words that we use?

 

00;11;55;05 – 00;12;15;02

Katie Taylor

Of course. Yeah. So as we get into like that toddler preschool age, their world is very egocentric. So whatever kind of choice and control I’m sure parents at home know, like if you ask your child to do something, they want to know what’s in it for them, especially at this age. So how can we get them involved with what’s happening?

 

00;12;15;09 – 00;12;36;18

Katie Taylor

So can you help pick out the Band-Aid that we’re going to use? Do you want us to look at your right arm first or your left arm first? Do you want to sit in mommy’s lap, or do you want to sit on the bed? Do you want the blanket on the blanket off? So all of these things are choices that empower kids and make them feel like they’re a part of the situation, rather than feeling like something is being done to them.

 

00;12;36;20 – 00;12;55;12

Katie Taylor

And I think the more we can have a preparation that includes those those choices ahead of time, the more prepared you are when you go in. So if you, the parent or at home first say, hey, this is the way it’s going to go, we’re going to go sit in the waiting room. We’ll have to check in. We’re going to go see the doctor, the sequence of events and preparing them.

 

00;12;55;12 – 00;13;15;27

Katie Taylor

And then part of that preparation is also, well, where do you think you’re going to want to sit? What do you want to hold your levy. Or do you want to keep your levy on the chair? Do you want to read a book? Why we do it? So integrating that kind of coping skill that they’ve chosen into preparation can do a lot for making kids feel like they have a choice, and it’s more collaborative.

 

00;13;15;29 – 00;13;38;27

Dr. Mona

Oh so important. And the give control tip, I mean, that is just toddler 101. But I think parents parents forget how useful that tip is in so many different situations. And I also feel and I’ve learned this through my training. And I would say my experience I shouldn’t say training because as you start to become a position, more and more you learn the power of giving a child control in the exam.

 

00;13;39;03 – 00;13;57;03

Dr. Mona

So I’ve always done this, but I, I hope people who are listening, who maybe a clinician who’s dealing with a child who’s more sensitive to the stuff, I always allow the option of where they sit for the exam. I always actually prefer a parent to hold a younger child, especially in their lap. I just think it works better than automatically putting them on the table.

 

00;13;57;03 – 00;14;19;12

Dr. Mona

Some children, by their own volition, will want to go on the table. But I say, hey, do we want to examine with you or on the table, which can really help? But also as the child gets older, giving them control. This is so helpful. And I think parents understand that this needs to happen, but I feel like when they hear it, like you just explained, it can really just give them some more peace and saying, yeah, we are going to get through this.

 

00;14;19;15 – 00;14;37;13

Dr. Mona

It is going to be over. Like you said, it’s hard. I get it. Like it’s not hard seeing our kids uncomfortable or in pain, quote unquote, like all these things. But it is something that essentially needs to happen, are working at these vaccines, the surgeries, whatever it may be. So I think normalizing that, hey, this is going to happen, that we can be very calm with our presence as well.

 

00;14;37;15 – 00;15;03;19

Katie Taylor

Absolutely. And another part I want to add just a little bit about that preschool age, is that’s when they really start into getting into magical thinking. And it’s hard to delineate. Are mermaids real or are they not real princesses and superheroes. And so one of the techniques I like for that preschool age, so about 3 to 5 and a half or six years old is really getting them to tell you what they understand so far.

 

00;15;03;19 – 00;15;21;23

Katie Taylor

So right when we’re in the hospital, the technique is called teach back. So what have you told them and what do they understand? What do they retain when you start that out with a child that’s a preschool age, you can kind of start to understand their misconceptions. So something being like, hey, have you ever had a shot before?

 

00;15;21;23 – 00;15;42;19

Katie Taylor

And you may be very surprised about the story that they tell you about having a shot, either. They haven’t before they saw it on Daniel Tiger, but that just gives you kind of a foundation for starting the conversation in either you’re saying that’s exactly right or saying this is the way that I think it’s going to happen tomorrow and just, you know.

 

00;15;42;24 – 00;15;43;00

Dr. Mona

 

00;15;43;05 – 00;16;01;18

Katie Taylor

Understanding where they’re coming from. One quick example I’ll give you is I was preparing a child for an appendectomy, so getting their appendix out with a laparoscopic surgery. And so we are going through the preparation. And this child was very engaged. I let kids lead the conversation a lot. And so he wanted to know a lot of the details.

 

00;16;01;18 – 00;16;20;00

Katie Taylor

Right. And so I’m not using words like cut and, you know, that kind of thing. But I am saying the doctor is going to make an opening. They’re going to use a special camera to look inside. And then I ask the question, what do you think the doctor is going to use to take out your appendix? And he said, probably his Jedi laser.

 

00;16;20;02 – 00;16;39;12

Katie Taylor

No. So, you know, it’s he’s building on from his experience and integrating it. Luckily that’s, you know, not a very threatening thing to him. Right. Like that is kind of fun to think about. And I just I said, oh my gosh, that would be cool. I have not seen the doctors yet. I laser, but he does have a special tool that’s just for taking appendixes out.

 

00;16;39;12 – 00;16;47;19

Katie Taylor

And that did it just fine. That was the perfect answer that he needed. But it’s really understanding, you know, that he’s not looking for Jedi lasers when we go into the O.R..

 

00;16;47;21 – 00;17;05;00

Dr. Mona

Oh, I love that. And again, like you said, building on the child’s imagination. And I really appreciate you, Katie, for going by, like, age. Right. You can do that very beautifully on, like, here’s what we do for, like, that young baby versus that toddler versus that preschool child based on their development and how they view the world. Because that is important, right?

 

00;17;05;00 – 00;17;11;18

Dr. Mona

We obviously can’t have the toddler do all this imaginative stuff. I mean, there’s probably a little bit of that there, but this is so helpful. So thank you.

 

00;17;11;25 – 00;17;14;13

Katie Taylor

Oh, I’m so glad. I’m so glad. It’s helpful.

 

00;17;14;15 – 00;17;35;19

Dr. Mona

So this is all preparation. So maybe some more discussion on a child who has become so afraid of shots. Vaccines. Okay. Like they have never had a child like specialist. They’ve never had someone speak to them like you are. How would we maybe start to get them more comfortable? What are some things that, as I’ve seen this, I mean, I’ve seen them.

 

00;17;35;22 – 00;17;54;17

Dr. Mona

It’s heartbreaking. I mean, in my office, like them cornered in the room, crying tears. And I do believe that the medical community has a little bit of a I’m not going to I hate using this word, but a little bit of a fault to play because we kind of have to get things done. So the staff sometimes is not as sensitive as you are.

 

00;17;54;29 – 00;18;16;25

Dr. Mona

I’m going to be very honest, and I hear that from parents that it’s kind of rushed or that they just have to pin them down and do it. But what would you say for that family, what they can do, maybe beforehand during the visit, what maybe we could do as clinicians? I think this is a great conversation to really help that child who’s become so afraid of needles, to get to the doctor’s office, do the visit, and then leave.

 

00;18;16;27 – 00;18;30;01

Katie Taylor

Yeah, yeah, I think that’s such a good question. And, you know, there’s no kind of right track of steps to take that’s going to work every time. But I think applying this preparation part, especially if your child is old enough to talk with you.

 

00;18;30;07 – 00;18;31;00

Dr. Mona

Yeah, you can.

 

00;18;31;00 – 00;18;49;05

Katie Taylor

Say something like, hey, last time I was talking to the doctor, they mentioned that in the next few months we’re going to have to get a shot. When is the best time for me to tell you? Do you want me to tell you right before we go in? Do you want to talk about it the day before and let them have some say in when it’s going to happen next?

 

00;18;49;07 – 00;19;04;03

Katie Taylor

When you’re in those situations? And this is what happens in medicine, things do have to get done. There are so many patients to see. We wish we could take all the time in the world, but that’s just not possible. So what can we do right now to make it better? Those choices that we mentioned before can make a big deal.

 

00;19;04;09 – 00;19;24;08

Katie Taylor

I think having the parent play a role like you said, and comfort positioning. So I can send you some information about comfort positioning to share, but it’s basically where the child is not being restrained by any kind of device, but it’s actually the parent who is holding the child. Distraction works really well, so I don’t have any tablet or iPad rules in the hospital.

 

00;19;24;08 – 00;19;24;27

Dr. Mona

So we watch.

 

00;19;24;28 – 00;19;41;27

Katie Taylor

As many shows as we need to to get through something. Implementing a coping skill like your job, is to take a deep breath on the count of three and being as specific as possible. Or like in my eyes, and count to five with me. The other thing I do verbalize is, you know, you have a lot of choices.

 

00;19;41;27 – 00;19;58;03

Katie Taylor

Do you want to count? Do you want to watch a show? This shot is not a choice. And so we have to have this shot happen before we leave the room today. And we really need your help to do it. The other thing I say is sometimes kids are restrained. They do have to be held down. We do have to get it done.

 

00;19;58;06 – 00;20;16;10

Katie Taylor

Yeah. What we want to see after that is how fast is a child recover? Do they get back to themselves or are they able to play right after? Can we take a moment to de-stress? Can we get the clinicians out of the room so they just have the parent bond so we can do things after, because we know those things will continue to happen for as long as shots are given.

 

00;20;16;10 – 00;20;23;05

Katie Taylor

They’re not fun. How fast can we recover? How fast can we get them back to their selves? And that’s really what we look at as well.

 

00;20;23;07 – 00;20;42;22

Dr. Mona

And thank you so much for normalizing that, that sometimes we have had to do that, like even in the most sensitive situation, you know, and I’m so glad you said that, that it doesn’t mean that we have to get it done, like you said. Right? Like using the vaccine as an example. And, you know, we can’t give medicines to sedate them in an outpatient setting, like a surgical procedure and things like that.

 

00;20;42;22 – 00;21;04;11

Dr. Mona

Right. It’s a vaccine. It has to happen. You know, I know there are things like the little buzzy, like the buzzy bee thing to like help kind of as a distracting tool. There’s all these different tools and tricks that people use, but in the end of the day, it is a reality that we are preparing them. We understand that they may be okay, that there is going to be the possibility of some holding restraint using those words in a non scary way.

 

00;21;04;17 – 00;21;29;24

Dr. Mona

And I love what you said about the moment that happens before and after, especially that moment after. I mean, I tell my parents all the time, the ones of the children who are more scared. I’m like, look, I know he’s scared or she’s scared we are going to do this and you are going to get time with your child afterwards to give them a big hug, reassure them, please don’t forget the power of the after discussion, the aftermath of what happens when your child goes through something that is traumatic to them, right?

 

00;21;29;24 – 00;21;47;28

Dr. Mona

I don’t look at vaccines as traumatic, but of course, to a child who’s scared of them, it’s traumatic, right? Like a force. And it doesn’t mean that that’s going to cause some lifelong trauma where they, you know, won’t ever overcome it. But it is a reality that we have to accept that something that may not be traumatic for me or a parent, obviously, a child who’s fearful this is something scary for them.

 

00;21;47;28 – 00;22;03;09

Dr. Mona

And I’m big on the after conversation. Like, if it’s a child’s old enough or even a two year old like I, you know, with Ryan, if he cried even a little bit at a vaccine, I would say, hey, you had a little bit of a pinch. Did that hurt? Yes, mommy. Oh, you were so brave after when you got your Band-Aid.

 

00;22;03;09 – 00;22;23;09

Dr. Mona

Yes, mommy. I brave like, you know, and it really helps build up that. Hey, this was something not so fun. That’s fine. But you did it. And I’m so proud of you that you actually got through it. And that I really, really value you saying that. That sometimes it needs to happen. That doesn’t mean that your child is going to be traumatized per se, where it’s going to be a lifelong thing, at all.

 

00;22;23;09 – 00;22;44;05

Dr. Mona

Like, it just means that it also matters how we approach it afterwards, whether that’s the, you know, most likely the parent who’s talking to them, explaining to them, you know, really positive reinforcement of like you did great. I’m really proud of you for showing up here today. Like I really feel like that helps. Even if they screamed and cried, I’m like, they came, they came and they did it like awesome.

 

00;22;44;07 – 00;23;02;23

Katie Taylor

I think you’re right. It’s like pointing out those, no matter how small, those positive things that happened, like you kept your arm still. You were screaming, I heard you so loud, but your arm was so still. That was that still is. I’ve ever seen your arm, you know, really focusing on those parts. Like you said that after conversation.

 

00;23;02;29 – 00;23;23;20

Katie Taylor

And like I said, you may be surprised as well about what kids remember from what actually happened. And so you’re just getting more information from your child learning more about how they process things. Did they remember crying a lot, or did they say it was fine? I got a lollipop, you know, so you may be surprised about what they recollect from that experience as well.

 

00;23;23;22 – 00;23;44;16

Dr. Mona

Oh, I love it. These are such great tips. I am just so grateful. And I think this is going to be really helpful for so many. Is there anything else that you’d want to add that could be very helpful for a parent? Or maybe something that you see parents commonly do that maybe they would like to watch for, like, you know, maybe try to work on not doing this kind of things or anything like that.

 

00;23;44;18 – 00;24;01;05

Katie Taylor

Yeah, I would say, it’s very normal. I see this all the time where parents come in and we have to do an idea, a blood draw, and they say, I have horrible veins. You know, he’s probably going to have horrible veins. And so we’re setting up kind of this idea that things are not going to go well right away.

 

00;24;01;07 – 00;24;24;29

Katie Taylor

And I think kind of checking in with yourself that your child’s experience and what you have been through is very real and you might have terrible veins. This is an incredibly different experience with different nursing, different circumstances. And so saying comments about what you’ve been through out loud can cause maybe more problems for your child. Anticipating that to happen for them when it’s not necessarily the case.

 

00;24;25;01 – 00;24;46;21

Katie Taylor

So it’s that check in that we have to do as parents and saying like, am I projecting? How can I, you know, focus on the here and now and at a later time, you know, maybe think about what I’ve been through with someone else, but there’s not really a need to put that out there. You know? I’m sure it’s coming from a place of fear that you don’t want your child to have to go through what you have, but just kind of keeping those thoughts quiet.

 

00;24;46;23 – 00;24;50;02

Katie Taylor

You never want to your child to be the one consoling you.

 

00;24;50;05 – 00;24;51;25

Dr. Mona

Yeah. You know, so, yeah.

 

00;24;52;15 – 00;24;57;08

Katie Taylor

You know, just watch for those little nuances that you may not even realize that you’re saying.

 

00;24;57;10 – 00;25;13;06

Dr. Mona

Yeah, I love that. I mean, for me, I have been on both sides. I mean, as a child, my first memory is, having to get stitches on my forehead. I tripped and fell when I was five years old. I remember it, I vividly remember it, and a lot of children’s first memories can commonly be very emotional ones.

 

00;25;13;06 – 00;25;34;08

Dr. Mona

Right? That’s how memory kind of works. And I remember. But what I will always remember and I always tell the story to a lot of families, is that I had to get stitches on my forehead. They took me to my mom’s work. My mom used to work at a doctor’s office, and my mom was there. And the entire time, even though inside, I’m sure she was so sad because it’s not easy watching your child get stitches and crying like I’m crying, right?

 

00;25;34;08 – 00;25;52;15

Dr. Mona

Like I they numb my forehead, but I’m awake. I can see the doctor vividly. I have memories, I can see the hands twisting and moving and stitching up my forehead. And I remember looking to my left and my mom just sat there, really just so calm and just looked at me and said, it’s going to be okay, we’re going to go home and you’re going to be fine.

 

00;25;52;15 – 00;26;14;10

Dr. Mona

And I do like to drive home the power of a parent in this situation, in all things that we do. Our kids, like you said, are going to be scared and we have to be the stronger one. And it’s an unfortunate reality, but it’s true. We have to in these situations of extreme trauma for them, like things that are like not so happy for them, we have to muster up whatever we can.

 

00;26;14;10 – 00;26;32;05

Dr. Mona

And if it means getting the help of another caregiver who may have not have a needle phobia, or maybe someone who may be able to go with the child. But really looking inside ourselves as adults and saying, look, I have insecurities with this situation. Like you said, with the blood draw or my veins, that I want to be as calm as possible, as present as possible.

 

00;26;32;11 – 00;26;49;05

Dr. Mona

It’s okay if it makes you upset. It’s okay if you cry. It’s okay if all those things happen. But if really that energy vibe really helps, like the kid is still maybe going to cry, they’re still not going to love it, but they’re going to look at you like I did. And I looked at my mom and I always remember her and I like I remember that situation.

 

00;26;49;05 – 00;27;08;23

Dr. Mona

It’s actually where my love of medicine came from when I got injured and someone help me, I was like, oh, I want to be a doctor so I can help kids. And, it’s just such a powerful moment to be able to see. Well, my mommy was okay when I was being when I was vulnerable. And we talked about it after she got me an ice cream, like we went home and she’s like, do you, what do you want?

 

00;27;08;23 – 00;27;29;17

Dr. Mona

Exactly what you said. And those things hold a lot of power. And so my message is if you are struggling with any of that and I know how hard it is, my son has gone through three eggs, MRI’s like all of it. And it is extremely hard as a mother to watch your child go through those things. But I also know that they’re going to be fine and that there’s a purpose to this as a in the medical realm, right?

 

00;27;29;17 – 00;27;47;15

Dr. Mona

Like eggs were horrible because it’s he has to sit still. How can a toddler so hard it’s still yeah. You know, we did what we could. We watched a lot of screen time. Like you said. We utilized all of that, utilize all my resources. And then I just was there with him. I cuddled with him. I told him exactly what was happening and he was younger.

 

00;27;47;15 – 00;28;04;27

Dr. Mona

But I think even just the narration and telling helped me, you know, just to kind of get through it. So these tips are just so fantastic, Katie, and such an important conversation, because there are millions of children out there who have fear of needles, have fear of doctors, have fear of surgeries, and they turn into adults who have those same fears.

 

00;28;05;00 – 00;28;05;22

Katie Taylor

Right? Right.

 

00;28;05;24 – 00;28;25;04

Dr. Mona

And I want to really create a culture where it’s okay to have fear, but I don’t want it to be something that you can’t ever step foot into a doctor’s office again, that you can’t ever overcome this fear, and that we never tapped into this like we never tapped into how we can help you. So then maybe you can walk through that door and do whatever you need to do and walk out and feel like I did this, like.

 

00;28;25;04 – 00;28;41;11

Dr. Mona

And that’s such an empowering feeling when a child does get there. And I’ve seen it, I’m sure you see it all the time. How beautiful it is when a child finally overcomes that fear and has that bravery and is like, I did it, I did it. I’m so proud of myself. That’s an amazing moment for any child and parent to see.

 

00;28;41;14 – 00;28;44;09

Katie Taylor

It’s a reason that child like specialists go into this.

 

00;28;44;15 – 00;28;44;26

Dr. Mona

I love it.

 

00;28;44;26 – 00;29;02;02

Katie Taylor

Transformation. And yeah, I feel just incredibly lucky. And just to echo your point of parents being calm and validating, you know, just if you can remember two things when you’re in these situations, be as calm as you can, take breaks when you need to, and just validate your child’s experience.

 

00;29;02;11 – 00;29;23;02

Dr. Mona

That take breaks when you need to like that. Absolutely. Because some things are just so heavy that you just want to take that, take that breather and come back. And Katie, I’m just so grateful for you, your presence, your energy. No wonder your child life specialist, I see why you went into this field and it’s such an honor speaking to you not only because of your information and just obviously your guidance.

 

00;29;23;02 – 00;29;37;24

Dr. Mona

Taking in mind the entire child and the parenting dynamic. I think it’s so important that we approach situations like this. Where can people find you, your resources, your podcast, everything? I’m going to leave all of this in my show notes for everybody, but if you can just share with everyone how they can find you.

 

00;29;38;01 – 00;29;57;00

Katie Taylor

Yeah, absolutely. It’s really easy. It’s just child life on call. And we actually have a mobile app which is being deployed to hospitals to help expand child life services. A podcast, and then we also offer virtual services. So if you want to talk with a child life specialist, maybe some talk through some of these things before your next appointment or surgery with your child.

 

00;29;57;00 – 00;29;58;16

Katie Taylor

We’re happy to do that.

 

00;29;58;18 – 00;30;16;04

Dr. Mona

Thank you so much. I’ll be attaching all of those resources on my show notes. And again, thank you so much, Katie, and for all of you. If you love this episode, make sure you leave a review and a rating. Call Katie out on all of her amazing information. It would mean so much to us and make sure to share it on social media.

 

00;30;16;04 – 00;30;22;23

Dr. Mona

Tag us in your stories on Instagram so we can share this love and this information with so many other parents. Thank you again, Katie.

 

00;30;22;26 – 00;30;24;05

Katie Taylor

Thank you so much for having me.

 

00;30;24;05 – 00;30;39;25

Dr. Mona

Thank you for tuning in for this week’s episode. As always, please leave a review. Share this episode with a friend. Share it on your social media. Make sure to follow me at PedsDocTalk on Instagram and subscribe to my YouTube channel, PedsDocTalk TV. We’ll talk to you soon.