The “Default parent” seems like modern parenting terminology, but it’s a real role. It can sometimes be associated with feelings of resentment and overwhelm if it’s not communicated. I welcome Erica Djossa, the CEO and founder of Momwell and the author of Releasing the Mother Load: How to Carry Less and Enjoy Motherhood More.

We discuss:

• What the default parent is, and how someone knows they’re the default parent
• Why, in heterosexual relationships, have mothers taken on this role?
• How couples can communicate better to share the mental load and roles

Connect with Erica on Instagram @momwell. Check out her new book!

We love the sponsors that make this show possible! You can always find all the special deals and codes for all our current sponsors on the PedsDocTalk Podcast Sponsors page of the website.

00:00:01:02 – 00:00:24:27
Erica Djossa
The default parent is really about who owns the tasks and the roles in the home. It’s really the unspoken rules about when the kids say that they need something, or something needs to be done, or someone needs to go and get something. So who is the default responsible for the children? It’s the assumed person that has ownership over the tasks and roles.

00:00:24:29 – 00:00:49:29
Dr. Mona
Welcome back to the PedsDocTalk Podcast. This show is a top 50 parenting podcast in the United States because of you. And I say this and I mean it. Your reviews and ratings is what helps the show grow, and it’s so important to the podcast world. So continue leaving them or updating them. Today’s guest is Erica Jossa, who is the CEO and founder of mammal and a registered psychotherapist specializing in maternal mental health.

00:00:50:03 – 00:01:13:01
Dr. Mona
With over a decade of experience as a mother of three rambunctious young boys, Erica understands firsthand the challenges of motherhood. Perfectionism, pressure, and loss of identity fueled her battle with postpartum depression, and she realized how difficult it is to seek care. She’s also the author of the new book, Releasing the Mother Lode How to Carry Less and Enjoy Motherhood More, which is out today.

00:01:13:04 – 00:01:21:04
Dr. Mona
And we’re talking about the default parent dilemma strategies for shifting dynamics. Thank you so much for joining me today, Erica.

00:01:21:07 – 00:01:26:24
Erica Djossa
Thank you so much for having me here. I’m just excited to spend time with you and your community.

00:01:26:27 – 00:01:45:16
Dr. Mona
Well, congratulations. I’ve been following you on social media through the pandemic, actually. And obviously the work that you do, really helping mothers, realize, you know, about the perfectionism, pressure and all the things that we all deal with, but we sometimes don’t realize it is or talk about it. I just think it’s so valuable what you bring to the table.

00:01:45:22 – 00:01:53:18
Dr. Mona
And congratulations on your new book. Tell us more about yourself and also what encouraged you to write this book? Releasing the Mother lode.

00:01:53:21 – 00:02:21:23
Erica Djossa
Yeah. Thank you so much. I’m not sure if you feel the same way, but I certainly didn’t set out through school to have a platform and create content and write a book. It’s not sort of what I saw in the this scheme of things and the plan initially, but I found myself in private practice kind of chugging along after my master’s degree, debating whether to get my doctorate, trying to figure out what to do in my first couple of years of marriage.

00:02:21:23 – 00:02:43:05
Erica Djossa
And then I entered into motherhood kind of full force. I had three boys in the span of three and a half years, and it was like a shove into the deep end of motherhood, and I went through my own postpartum depression and anxiety after that experience, which really blindsided me. I feel like for a couple of reasons. One, I’m a clinician.

00:02:43:06 – 00:03:00:16
Erica Djossa
I literally teach these skills to people for a living day in and day out. Right? Like so. There’s a part of it that’s like, I know the skills. Why am I struggling here? And then the other part of it was that I didn’t even know maternal mental health was a specialty. I’d never heard about it in school. In my clinical experience.

00:03:00:18 – 00:03:26:03
Erica Djossa
And so I didn’t know that it was such a high risk time for me and for other mothers going through this adjustment in this transition. So I really niched down in the field and took to social media, actually just before the pandemic, to help mothers adjust and transition into their new role, to share some of the things that I had niche down in and was learning, because if I didn’t know with the experience and education I had, I assumed others didn’t either.

00:03:26:05 – 00:03:49:09
Erica Djossa
And the platform really took off. During that time, one of the things we became really known for was, my Invisible Load series, taking Invisible labor and the mental tasks and load that we carry, and putting it into like a visible structure that helped us to articulate and share with our partner the things that we were carrying day in and day out.

00:03:49:12 – 00:04:08:03
Erica Djossa
And it’s one of the things that the platform just became known for over the years. And in talking with my agent and figuring out what direction to head with the book, she’s like, if you could leave one thing out in the world, you know, what would it be? And I just know and feel so strongly that people can choose their own path in motherhood.

00:04:08:03 – 00:04:35:27
Erica Djossa
It’s really a choose your own adventure versus it having to look anyone particular right way. But we have to unlearn some things and go on a bit of a journey first in order to get there and feel comfortable and confident in choosing our own journey. So ultimately, releasing the motherlode is taking you through examining some of these beliefs that get just jammed into this juncture that we have, that we pull on when we become moms and we try to embody.

00:04:35:27 – 00:04:53:06
Erica Djossa
But they may be outdated, they may not resonate with our values, they may be put there by others and sort of assigned to us, and we don’t necessarily agree to them. So we go through it, unpack it, and really anchor in what’s important to you in motherhood so you can let go of all of the pressure and all of the rest.

00:04:53:09 – 00:05:11:15
Dr. Mona
Oh, I love it. I love origin stories, you know, talking about where you came from and what brought you to this point and writing this book. And yeah, I agree with you. You know, when I became a pediatrician, social media writing, especially all the video creation and podcasting that I do, was never a reality for me because I didn’t know anyone else doing that.

00:05:11:18 – 00:05:32:02
Dr. Mona
And now it’s so great, like you, to be able to reach so many people with the passions that we have. And, you know, although I am a pediatrician, I love having people like you on the show to talk about this because this is what makes us parenthood more available and present. Parents, you know, understanding the struggles that we’re going through, understanding why am I carrying so much load?

00:05:32:07 – 00:05:54:21
Dr. Mona
Is this something that I’m putting on myself, not utilizing resources, anything. You know, what is it that I need more of? Really just helps us show up better as mothers. So I love that. And you know, I know we’re talking about the default parent, which I know you’ve spoken to many times on your platform as well. What is the default parent and how does someone know that they’re the default parent?

00:05:54:24 – 00:06:20:11
Erica Djossa
Yeah, it’s a really great question because I hear a lot. Well, you know, partners are taking on so much more than they ever have before. They take on like, I don’t know, 33% of the household labor, for example. And while that is true, and it is great that there is more conversations happening about this, the default parent is really about who owns the tasks and the roles in the home.

00:06:20:13 – 00:06:44:24
Erica Djossa
It’s really the unspoken rules about when the kids say that they need something or something needs to be done, or someone needs to go and get something. So who is the default responsible for the children? It’s the assumed person that has ownership over the tasks and roles. And often what I find when I speak with people is that this was never really a conscious conversation.

00:06:44:26 – 00:07:15:14
Erica Djossa
It was just sort of assumed because I’m mom, I will be primary drop off and pickup. I will be primary point of contact for the pediatrician or for the dentist or the various others. So it’s really about ownership and examining how we got to holding these tasks. And did we put our names on them willingly and within a conscious conversation, or did they just kind of get handed to us and we accepted them because we think this is what it means to be a good mom.

00:07:15:17 – 00:07:33:05
Dr. Mona
Oh, I love it. And you brought up so many great examples of that default parent that they seem small, but when they add up can really feel, you know, add to that mental load that we also talk about being in charge of all those things, the daily things that add up and why do you feel like speaking of heterosexual relationships?

00:07:33:05 – 00:07:42:28
Dr. Mona
Okay, so you have a male and a female. Why do you think that women have tended to become the default parent, even if those conversations were, had or weren’t had with a partner?

00:07:43:00 – 00:08:11:05
Erica Djossa
It’s so often due to gender roles and role dynamics as parents, and research shows us that actually same sex partners having more equal distribution within the home because you don’t have gender to default to. So there will be more conversations about who’s going to take on what. Yeah. Whereas with a male and a female partner, we fall into these roles that we have seen modeled in our own, you know, childhood in media like all over the place.

00:08:11:05 – 00:08:46:09
Erica Djossa
And we’ve really internalized some core messages about what it means to be a good mom. And it’s really tricky because I love erotica and I love fair play, and I have the cards and I have the book, and I use them all the time. And I have a lot of clients who use them as well. But what happens when we just divide out the physical tasks and we don’t take on unpacking some of these pressures and expectations is if I think being a good mom equals being the one that gets up at night with my baby, being the one that is responsible for soothing my baby, being the one that needs to be there.

00:08:46:09 – 00:09:12:07
Erica Djossa
If my baby gets hurt or my child gets hurt, if that equals being a good mom, in my mind, I might want to share that load because it feels smothering. But I probably won’t. Or I’ll probably end up picking it back up because it equals being a good mom. In my mind, it’s tethered to my identity as a mom, so it becomes very difficult for me to let others in or hand it over in its entire ownership to my partner.

00:09:12:09 – 00:09:35:11
Erica Djossa
And some of these examples, like soothing, obviously, we’re going to tag team in and out who soothe. So not entirely. Can it be handed over? But to share in those things. But when we think that it means equals being a good mom, we’re going to really struggle with letting others in to do those things. Or when we do let others, and we’re gonna feel really guilty and kind of hard on ourselves when we have to step away from some of those things.

00:09:35:13 – 00:09:52:03
Dr. Mona
Yeah. I, you know, personally relate to this too. I’m a full time working parent in terms of my own business, but also clinically working. My husband works a lot. When you look at the hours of work that we do outside of the home, you know, like the paid work we get outside of the home, I actually work way more than he does.

00:09:52:09 – 00:10:09:15
Dr. Mona
And I am the default parent like I do. Like you said, the doctor’s visits. I’m the one who knows where everything is in the house. I’m the one who knows where that we need more Band-Aids or that we need more toilet paper. All this stuff that adds to like, oh, Mona, where this thing in the house. And so it definitely adds to it.

00:10:09:18 – 00:10:15:23
Dr. Mona
Do you feel like in your relationship, if you’re comfortable sharing that you have found to be the default parent, or how has it been?

00:10:15:25 – 00:10:37:05
Erica Djossa
Oh yeah. So that’s definitely how it started. And when I talk in the book about my my breakdown turned breakthrough, my like, realization of postpartum depression slash rage, I was like having a total meltdown after I getting pulled over by the police on the morning I was going to leave crappy and I was like, hyperventilating in my driveway at home.

00:10:37:05 – 00:10:59:20
Erica Djossa
The kids were in the car and I’m like, throwing up in the driveway, just not okay. And in that moment, like upon receiving help and kind of shattering this expectation that I can be perfect in any sense, like I really started to unpack and examine what were the things that were contributing to how I was feeling. And it really kind of like tore a veil for me to start to unpack.

00:10:59:22 – 00:11:15:19
Erica Djossa
You know, I can’t carry it all. I can’t be into it all. This is clearly having an impact on me. So I went full force into motherhood. Like I’m going to take on all these things, I’m going to own them, and then I’m going to do them perfectly, and I’m going to prove to myself and to everybody else that I can do this, and I can do this well.

00:11:15:21 – 00:11:33:27
Erica Djossa
But I was going in a million different directions. I was trying to live up to the expectations of others, and these weren’t really things that I had examined about whether they were anchored in my values are important to me. So I was doing all the things initially drop off, pick pickup, nighttime, weekends, feedings, protecting my partner’s time because he had to work.

00:11:33:27 – 00:11:56:06
Erica Djossa
So I was the one, you know, dealing with sleep disturbances and all of these things. And then I started on this journey of unpacking these dynamics and what was going on. And now fast forward to having done the work, the journey we are my youngest is five and my oldest is about to turn nine, and he is the main contact for school and all the doctor’s offices.

00:11:56:07 – 00:12:15:09
Erica Djossa
The school doesn’t even know who I am. I walk in and they’re like, who is your child? And they wave to him and they know him by name, and he does all the meals, and he is the default for or takes ownership over so many of the things that I wouldn’t have even contemplated giving him ownership over before.

00:12:15:14 – 00:12:36:08
Erica Djossa
So it definitely started there. And part of this book is the journey and the skills and the tools that we used, even in our relationship, to really shift that to a more equal partnership. And I would say were there, if not tilted his way a little bit more than my way because of just the demands on our schedules and things.

00:12:36:10 – 00:12:52:21
Erica Djossa
So it is something that takes time to adjust. And I had to unlearn a lot about what I thought a good mom meant versus what it really, truly means to me and tap into my values. But we are in an entirely different place from where we started.

00:12:52:24 – 00:13:09:09
Dr. Mona
Oh, I love hearing that. And I think that evolution is so healthy and we experience the same thing in that with one child it was default parent was more so me. And then when you add a second child into the mix, it’s just not sustainable. And so that male partner or that other partner may have to take on more of that role, like you said.

00:13:09:09 – 00:13:24:17
Dr. Mona
And the other day my son fell at school and he hurt his tooth, and I was actually taking a nap because I wasn’t feeling good from a cold. And I woke up and there was a bunch of phone calls from the school. And then all of a sudden I see a dental appointment was made, like I got a text message and I was like, wait, what happened?

00:13:24:18 – 00:13:38:27
Dr. Mona
Like, who made the dental appointment? Did the school make the dental appointment? And then I talked to my husband. I’m like, did you make a dentist appointment? He’s like, yeah, I got the email. I called and made an appointment. I was like, wow, thank you. I was like, is normally that’s me, right? Normally it’s I get the phone calls.

00:13:39:03 – 00:13:54:29
Dr. Mona
I’m the one who has to make the appointments. And he’s like, yeah, I saw the email and I and I made the appointment and he goes, hashtag mental load. And I’m like, that means so much. Great. But it’s like these little things that I think, you know, like, I know we’ll get into like how to have these conversations with our partners.

00:13:55:06 – 00:14:10:23
Dr. Mona
But that thing, it sounds like such a little thing, but it meant so much to me. And I thanked him. I was like, this is what I’m talking about. You took something off my plate and all that default parenting mental load is overlap that I didn’t have to worry about, and it was taken care of. It was such a beautiful thing.

00:14:10:25 – 00:14:27:13
Dr. Mona
Now let’s take a break to hear from our sponsors. And, you know, you really kind of alluded to a little bit of why, you know, motherhood seems to have changed right now or why moms are struggling, but has it changed from past generations? And why do you think our generation of mothers may be struggling a little bit more?

00:14:27:13 – 00:14:37:03
Dr. Mona
Is it that inability to let go of the control or the desires of what they want, not knowing their expectations or you know what they need? Or what do you think it is?

00:14:37:06 – 00:15:00:03
Erica Djossa
Yeah, well, in 1950, only 25% of mothers worked outside of the home, 25%, the vast majority of mothers, it was their full time job to care, give and to keep house like that was their full time job and responsibility. And even then, it’s more than a full time. It’s like two full time jobs. And like all the stay at home moms out there are freaking, you know, unicorns.

00:15:00:06 – 00:15:23:26
Erica Djossa
Because I like it’s it’s so relentless day in and day out to now. Fast forward, 86% of mothers are working outside of the home. And when we haven’t adjusted the expectations of moms to carry all the care work, the unpaid care work, and the unpaid domestic labor, but also we’re going to work full time and have disinherited another full time role.

00:15:23:29 – 00:15:46:08
Erica Djossa
It is entirely unrealistic to expect of one person, but we look around and everyone’s just kind of drowning in plain sight, and nobody, like everyone, seems to be doing it all and keeping up with it all that we’re like, it must just be me who’s struggling with this. And then we start to, like, kind of gaslight ourselves because it’s not any one task.

00:15:46:08 – 00:16:18:08
Erica Djossa
That in itself is difficult. The calling of making a dentist appointment is not hard in itself, but when there’s a million tiny little things like that, they add up and they create so much weight. It’s like death by a thousand tiny paper cuts, you know, like it’s just it weighs on you over time. And so this expectation that we should embody this more traditional form of motherhood that had the full time focus on the home while also trying to have a two income earning house, because that’s often what’s required of us now.

00:16:18:08 – 00:16:24:09
Erica Djossa
It’s just unrealistic. I have to reevaluate what we want for us and for our family.

00:16:24:11 – 00:16:40:26
Dr. Mona
Oh yes, I love what you mentioned about that added load. Right? The one thing it’s not the issue, it’s the added layers of now I have to do this and you know how I describe it. I know this overlaps a lot with mental load is when you’re focusing on something and then all of a sudden you’re just getting pulled, right, like you’re you’re a mommy, where’s this toy?

00:16:40:26 – 00:16:57:04
Dr. Mona
You’re the one who knows. Like for our house, I’m the one who knows where everything is. And it sounds small, but when you’re doing something and everyone’s asking you, including your partner. Hey, have you seen my surgical cap? Have you seen. You know, Ryan’s asking me where is, too? I’m like, yo, everyone needs to control their own thing right now.

00:16:57:05 – 00:17:20:12
Dr. Mona
Like, I have my own stuff that I’m trying to look for and and keep together. So it is those, you know, little things that add on. And so I completely agree with that. And in your book, Releasing the Mother Lode, you discuss a lot about the mental load and default parenting, which is what we’ve been talking about. The assumption that mothers are naturally better at caregiving and decision making can be that heavy burden like we’re talking about in this conversation.

00:17:20:14 – 00:17:28:18
Dr. Mona
So how can moms and their partners work together to share the mental load and challenge these assumptions, as well?

00:17:28:20 – 00:17:56:22
Erica Djossa
Yeah. In the book we talk about a concept called intensive mothering. And this is really the construct of motherhood that we are living in right now. Different cultures and different sort of times and eras have different expectations of what motherhood should look like. And for us, it’s intensive mothering. Intensive mothering comes with a few core beliefs, one that moms should be and are best suited biologically to be the primary caregiver of their child.

00:17:56:24 – 00:18:20:24
Erica Djossa
That child raising and rearing should be all consuming. It should take all of our time, energy, and resources in order for us to be good at it, that we should be wholly and entirely fulfilled by our role. And not long for or desire anything outside of motherhood. And this is a lot of the prevalent messaging in today’s society about what it means to be a good mom.

00:18:20:27 – 00:18:47:08
Erica Djossa
And so if we believe that we are the best biologically suited to whether it’s soothe or to show up when they’ve hurt their little tooth or put their tooth to the lip at school or something, and I have to be the one to sue them, because they’re not going to get that same care from our partner, then we are literally trapped in carrying all of the pieces because it has to be us.

00:18:47:11 – 00:19:10:18
Erica Djossa
And I am it in the book where it’s just not biologically rooted that any of these tasks are gendered. Like, yes, feeding. I exclusively breastfed all three of my boys. Feeding sat with me. But all of this stuff around feeding my husband would go get the baby, bring him into me in the bed, allow him to feed, would take him out, burp him, change him, put him down through them so it didn’t entirely fall on me.

00:19:10:18 – 00:19:33:16
Erica Djossa
He owned all of the other pieces that couldn’t be owned, like, you know, because he didn’t have milk. So there are ways, once we start to break out of the fact that it has to be me, there are ways that we can creatively problem solve to shift these loads. But if we are running under the assumption that I’m best biologically suited, it should be me.

00:19:33:16 – 00:20:02:17
Erica Djossa
It must be me. Then we shut down any problem solving or conversations with our partner because it’s like done, end of story. It’s mine to carry, right? So shifting that belief and that perspective just opens up a curious conversation of, okay, what has to be me? What can be you, what can be shared? And in the book, I have what I call load maps, where it breaks out the invisible labor.

00:20:02:20 – 00:20:24:20
Erica Djossa
So Invisible Labor is anticipating, researching, planning, and then managing the ongoing management of systems and things after they’ve been put in place. And it’s hard for us often to articulate what these things are because they feel abstract and they feel tiny in their individual pieces. But when you put them down on paper, you can see that it’s actually a lot of work.

00:20:24:22 – 00:20:48:29
Erica Djossa
So I provide the load maps and fill them in to try to take some of that labor off of you, the reader, so you don’t have to use all that brainpower to think about it. But I also include blank ones in a digital download, and these are such a helpful and important conversation starters with your partner, because you can take this list of all this invisible labor that has now been made visible in this load map, and start there.

00:20:48:29 – 00:21:09:12
Erica Djossa
In terms of a conversation, who can take on what? Who can own? What? Is it going to be flexible? Is it going to go back and forth all of those pieces? But first we have to accept that it’s not just us that has to carry it and then to make what is invisible or visible so that we can tangibly sort it and come up with a plan.

00:21:09:15 – 00:21:30:00
Dr. Mona
Oh, I love that. I love that idea. And like I said, the book is so great. I think it’s just the fact that there’s some workbooks aspect of it, but also all the stuff that you add, the personal experiences are so amazing. So I cannot wait for more people to get this into their hands. And, you know, also asking from a personal perspective, you talked about that invisible labor and how you speak to your partner.

00:21:30:07 – 00:21:48:23
Dr. Mona
Did you find that, you know, it sounds like your partner was really good about, you know, from the beginning maybe helping with the non feeding aspects of that newborn period. But is this something that you as a family kind of discuss, you know, you and your partner on a regular basis like this, invisible labor or things that are becoming more so for you or even more so for your partner.

00:21:48:23 – 00:21:53:25
Dr. Mona
And how often do you think those check ins are really good for people to have?

00:21:53:28 – 00:22:12:18
Erica Djossa
Yeah, it’s really maybe a byproduct of that. I live in this work. I feel like we talk about this all the time because they will rage, rant about the things. Yeah, that to him just observations of other things. But one of like I’ve always had a willing partner. He’s never not wanted to contribute and carry a part of the load.

00:22:12:18 – 00:22:27:00
Erica Djossa
Now, I know that that is not the reality for some of those who are listening, but a lot of the couples that I work with, surprisingly like their partners are willing. But it’s kind of like make me a list or tell me what to do. Like they don’t, like, take the initiative, you know?

00:22:27:00 – 00:22:29:00
Dr. Mona
Yeah. That’s hard. That’s fine. We’ll do it ourselves.

00:22:29:03 – 00:22:45:25
Erica Djossa
No, we are reinforced in this management carrying role. So it’s like I’ll do the physical tasks, but like all that invisible labor gets missed when we’re in that managerial role. So for those willing partners, having these load maps to show them, hey, you got to just own this part. Like our partners are capable. They go and they function at work.

00:22:45:25 – 00:23:06:08
Erica Djossa
They hold jobs that have all this mental labor involved, like they’re capable to do these things. Right. But then we also have like daily and weekly things. And I talk about, tools like this in the book where no one person is assumed default for any task or event or role in our home. So it’s kind of like top of the week.

00:23:06:08 – 00:23:27:27
Erica Djossa
Okay, we’ve got a book camp. We’ve got a, you know, report this day whether we’re going, this hockey thing is happening, this tournament hotel needs to be booked. And we think on what needs to be done and kind of divide ownership over who will take on what. That small shift in not assuming any one person is responsible. It takes time to get there.

00:23:28:05 – 00:23:48:13
Erica Djossa
But once we can do that, then it’s like, okay, I’m not just going to default to assuming this person has ownership, we’re going to talk about it and divide it out so that communication is happening on a mini scale daily, on a more planning scale for the week, probably weekly then. Then even beyond that, looking at like summer camp coming up, because we want to have childcare and sort of bigger planning items.

00:23:48:13 – 00:23:56:20
Erica Djossa
So communication and an open line of communication with your partner is so crucial in being able to actually shift the load.

00:23:56:22 – 00:24:07:18
Dr. Mona
Yeah. Oh, this is such a great conversation and I cannot wait for people to get access to your book. What would be a final message for everyone listening today to kind of wrap up this conversation?

00:24:07:20 – 00:24:26:20
Erica Djossa
Picture an invisible backpack for a moment, and it is just full of these bricks of tasks that you carry around. You know, the weight of them. You know that they are there. But did you put them in there? Did you put your name on them? Did you claim ownership over them, or did somebody else put them in that backpack for you?

00:24:26:22 – 00:24:49:19
Erica Djossa
And if there’s one thing you take away from today, just question. Hold on a minute. How did I end up holding this task? How did I have ownership over it? Was it assumed? Was it talked about? And let that place of curiosity be the thing that starts you on this journey of unpacking this invisible labor and shifting some of these dynamics in your home?

00:24:49:22 – 00:24:56:24
Dr. Mona
Very great conversation. And where can people go to purchase the book and also to stay connected with you and your resources?

00:24:56:26 – 00:25:26:21
Erica Djossa
Yeah. Releasing the motherlode is available wherever books are sold, which is so exciting. Yeah. Amazon, Barnes and Noble, target, Indigo here in Canada, all the indie bookstores and support your local bookstores and, Erica Johnson A.com. So d j o s a.com. I have a free guide that pairs with the book that are worksheets that help you to go through it, a value sort which is touched on in the book that some activities that you can do by yourself and with your partner.

00:25:26:21 – 00:25:45:26
Erica Djossa
So lots of free resources there as well to pair with the book. And if they want to learn more from me or are struggling at all to adjust to motherhood, I’m with anxiety or depression or trying to come up with a maternal plan for sleep. Any of those things? My platform mom. Well, on Instagram or mama.com more.

00:25:45:27 – 00:25:53:16
Erica Djossa
The Mom Wall podcast helps in all of those adjustment to motherhood mental health pieces. As mom.

00:25:53:19 – 00:26:05:06
Dr. Mona
Wonderful. And I’m going to be adding links to the show notes so that people can stay connected and obviously learn more about your book. And thank you so much for joining me today, Erica. I can’t wait to have you on for a future episode.

00:26:05:09 – 00:26:07:21
Erica Djossa
It was so great. Thank you for having me.

00:26:07:24 – 00:26:25:02
Dr. Mona
Yeah, and for everyone listening today. Make sure you leave a review and a rating. We love when you call out the guests that you really love that were on the show. So make sure you say how much you love this episode. Share it on your social media. Like I said, it’s how the show continues to grow and I cannot wait to chat with another guest next time.