On this episode I welcome back certified lactation counselor Melissa of @pump_momma_pump on Instagram to discuss pumping and going back to work. We discuss the following: 

• Pumping considerations when going back to work
• Tips for success emotionally and physically
• Considerations for space to pump
• How to best schedule pumpings
• Common hurdles and how to overcome them

Further reading: Break Time for Nursing Mothers under the FLSA (Fair Labor Standards Act) along with Frequently Asked Questions https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/nursing-mothers#:~:text=for%20Nursing%20Mothers-,Break%20Time%20for%20Nursing%20Mothers,Section%207%20of%20the%20FLASH.

00;00;08;29 – 00;00;31;01

Dr. Mona

Welcome to this week’s episode where I welcome back Melissa Guerriero, who is a certified lactation counselor and founder of pump mama Pump on Instagram. You probably heard her on the podcast where we talked about ten misconceptions of pumping, and she joins me to talk all about how to navigate pumping when going back to work. Thank you so much for joining me today, Melissa.

 

00;00;31;04 – 00;00;33;10

Melissa Guerriero

Hey, thanks for having me back.

 

00;00;33;12 – 00;00;39;03

Dr. Mona

Tell me again why you became a lactation counselor and also why you started pump mama, pump.

 

00;00;39;06 – 00;00;57;16

Melissa Guerriero

Oh, absolutely. So my first baby was born a month early, which landed him with a brief stay in the NICU. So the nurse taught me how to exclusively pump before that, I didn’t know it was a thing, and I didn’t have the support that I needed right away. Other than that, NICU Nurse and I felt very, very alone.

 

00;00;57;18 – 00;01;23;19

Melissa Guerriero

So I started pump mama pump after my first exclusive pumping journey and before my second exclusive pumping journey to be who I needed, and give moms that education, that motivation, that support they need, whether they are exclusively pumping or as we’re going to talk about in this episode. Returning to work and pumping or maybe even just pumping occasionally and nursing otherwise.

 

00;01;23;22 – 00;01;41;00

Melissa Guerriero

So I got my CLC certifications so that I could fill a need that is not really that prevalent in the lactation professional community, which is someone who specializes just in pumping. And that’s me.

 

00;01;41;02 – 00;02;10;25

Dr. Mona

Awesome. And we actually talk about that in episode 83, which we recorded together. Make sure you listen to that one too, where me and Alyssa go over. Like I said, misconceptions that people have about pumping. We talk about exclusive pumping in particular. But it’s so important. We also talk about just that boy that we found on social media, and what she’s feeling by creating pump mama pump for lactating people who really want that sort of support, which is so needed, online and, you know, for people to succeed and however they want to feed their baby.

 

00;02;10;25 – 00;02;12;03

Dr. Mona

So thank you.

 

00;02;12;06 – 00;02;12;29

Melissa Guerriero

Yeah.

 

00;02;13;01 – 00;02;33;08

Dr. Mona

So we are going to talk about now incorporating pumping and going back to work, which like we talked about, this is when many women decide to start incorporating pumping. So I really wanted to talk about that. In terms of when you’re starting to think about pumping and incorporating it into a workplace. What are some things that we have to think about?

 

00;02;33;13 – 00;02;39;08

Dr. Mona

Maybe a checklist, if you will, of what you may need, what to talk to your employer about things like that.

 

00;02;39;10 – 00;03;00;08

Melissa Guerriero

Sure. The first thing to know if you’re returning to work is that in the US, it’s your legal right to pump at work. It’s not an accommodation. It’s our right to get time and space to pump. It’s actually a biological and medical necessity. So the first thing I want to encourage you to do is research the law.

 

00;03;00;09 – 00;03;31;18

Melissa Guerriero

Research the federal law or the law for your state and your employee handbook about what they might already have in place for breastfeeding mothers and what you need to look up is from the US Department of Labor and Wage and Hour Division, so I’m sure we can attach that in the show notes. I will, but I want you to, you know, research that law and research what’s already in place and see if there’s already a designated space for pumping at work.

 

00;03;31;20 – 00;03;56;26

Melissa Guerriero

And then speak confidently with your employer, whether it’s in person, if possible, or via email, and politely and confidently state how many times you’re going to need to pump in the work day. How you envision this fitting into your schedule, where you intend to pump? Do they have a designated space? If not, you can ask for help finding that designated and suitable space.

 

00;03;56;28 – 00;04;12;29

Melissa Guerriero

It legally needs to be private and not a bathroom. And then if something goes wrong, I want you to feel okay meeting with your human resources department to communicate those rights and those needs upon your return to work.

 

00;04;13;01 – 00;04;29;01

Dr. Mona

My friend, I, you know, before I had my son, I had a lot of anxiety about this because my workplace was not actually supportive of, the physical space. And I’m in a health care field. They were like, well, we can put you in this place and we’ll figure it out. And they’re like, you know, it was actually a really big problem.

 

00;04;29;01 – 00;04;46;24

Dr. Mona

And I think it’s important that you understand that there are rules that you need to voice the rules. And, you know, make it very clear that there needs to be also space, but also the time to pump, like you said, like, I mean, there needs to be, hey, whether it’s every 2 to 3 hours and we’ll go over kind of what that looks like, but I need the time block or something to allow me to do this.

 

00;04;46;24 – 00;05;05;02

Dr. Mona

And I think hurt me if I’m wrong. But I know from talking to a lot of mothers, myself included, a lot of distress and a lot of people’s breastfeeding journey may end before they want to because they start work, meaning they start work and they can’t meet the pumping goals, they can’t meet their deadlines at work or whatever it may be, and then they lose supply and they end.

 

00;05;05;02 – 00;05;23;25

Dr. Mona

And if that’s what they wanted to do, I’m fine. But if that’s not what their choice was, and it’s because of not having the access of location or the time that kills me because that’s something that we should be providing for mothers, right? I mean, that is something like you said, legally it should be allowed. So I really appreciate you setting that tone because every woman deserves that.

 

00;05;23;25 – 00;05;26;29

Dr. Mona

Right. If she wants that in her breastfeeding journey, for sure.

 

00;05;27;01 – 00;05;48;25

Melissa Guerriero

Oh, absolutely. So let’s talk about the logistics of to work. So you’re going to need space right. So we talked about space not being a bathroom. So a space to pump. You’re also going to need time to pump. So what does that look like. That looks ideally like 2 to 3 pump sessions in your average eight hour workday.

 

00;05;48;27 – 00;06;08;09

Melissa Guerriero

Which means you need to be real efficient during those pump breaks. If you have a second pump and pump supplies to keep it work, I always think that’s the way to go, because you don’t have to cart them between home and work and risk, for getting some parts that you really need to pump at home and getting really stressed out.

 

00;06;08;12 – 00;06;32;10

Melissa Guerriero

But other than that is using those breaks. Whether, you know it’s two breaks in your lunch session to efficiently pump. And that might mean finding different ways to wash your supplies at work, or to perhaps use another method to, keep your supplies safe between pumping sessions and then wash everything when you get home. That looks different for every workplace.

 

00;06;32;14 – 00;06;54;16

Melissa Guerriero

You might not have access to a sink. You might not have access to a fridge. So do you need to use a hard sided cooler with an ice pack? You know, working all those logistics out before you even return to work can help you more confidently tackle pumping at work once you do return. So there’s a lot of things to think about before.

 

00;06;54;19 – 00;07;23;22

Melissa Guerriero

And then once you’re at work, you can confidently pump during those sessions. So let’s talk about those sessions. I want you to prioritize pumping. So I want you to protect your supply by prioritizing pumping, whether that means setting alarm or scheduling meetings into your accounts, into your calendar to reserve that time. And then when you’re in there pumping, look at your baby, you know, gaze at a picture of your baby.

 

00;07;23;22 – 00;07;46;02

Melissa Guerriero

Watch videos on your phone. It can really not only help to encourage your let down, but it helps you remember why you’re doing what you’re doing and help you feel connected to baby, and that you’re actually being productive and you’re caring for your baby when you’re not even in your baby’s presence, is actually a really cool way to bridge that gap.

 

00;07;46;05 – 00;07;56;10

Melissa Guerriero

And that maybe any guilt you’re feeling returning to work, knowing that you’re still doing something to benefit your baby, even though they’re not with you at the moment.

 

00;07;56;12 – 00;08;20;00

Dr. Mona

One question I get asked is, well, how much time should I consider allocating myself for the pumping? I guess you said you can clean the parts at home, but more like, you know, obviously we know that a breastfeeding session can be anywhere from 20 minutes. It can be quick, but what sort of time chunk would you recommend a mother talking to their job about in terms of, hey, can I have this sort of block of time that I could have to, you know, comfortably do this whole process that I need?

 

00;08;20;03 – 00;08;39;07

Melissa Guerriero

Well, you know, that does look different for every mom because some moms can pump more efficiently than others. But ideally, I’d like to see three half hour blocks. Yeah. Now, I have worked with mothers who we make it work in two fifteens and a 30, because that is what a lot of people get in an eight hour work day.

 

00;08;39;09 – 00;09;10;23

Melissa Guerriero

But making it work in two 15 minute breaks and a 30 minute lunch, it’s legally you get more than that. Okay, so, now with that, they might make you clock out. And that’s something that you need to talk to your HR about. But they can’t terminate you for that. They can’t deny you that time to pump. So if you need a half an hour, mama, take a half an hour and use that time because you’re going to need to get to the room, you’re going to need to attach your pump.

 

00;09;10;26 – 00;09;35;02

Melissa Guerriero

Maybe get a good 20 minute session in. You can use some hands on massage and compression to really get that milk exiting the breast efficiently, and then to clean up afterwards, you know, fix your garments and return to the workplace. So it’s a 30 minute break, can go by really fast. And learning how to use that to pump efficiently is something that you’ll learn actually pretty quickly after doing it a few times.

 

00;09;35;08 – 00;09;45;29

Melissa Guerriero

So if you want to do a test run at home within that same time frame before you return to work, you can really whittle that time down to make the most of that 30 minute session.

 

00;09;46;01 – 00;10;02;16

Dr. Mona

Yeah. And for everyone listening, I mean, anything we start new, like if it’s a new experience, like she said, I mean, of course it may be a little bit clunky, just like maybe starting nursing was, or if you started pumping, you know, ever or, you know, starting any new experience. So totally an adjustment of finding that groove and finding, you know, that system that works in it.

 

00;10;02;16 – 00;10;19;01

Dr. Mona

And like you said, it can look so different for every so and also just depends on what job she’s at and what situation is with her, you know, with her pumping speed and, you know, what’s going on. So I really appreciate that. When do you recommend so a mother was never pumping and just say she was solely nursing.

 

00;10;19;01 – 00;10;30;29

Dr. Mona

Okay. And now she’s going to go back to work. Do you have an opinion or recommendation on when to start introducing pumping sessions into the picture? You know, how soon before going to work that you would kind of encourage that?

 

00;10;31;02 – 00;10;49;25

Melissa Guerriero

Yeah, absolutely. I suggest no less than two weeks before returning to work. Because you’re going to need to figure out what nipple your baby likes. They usually say bottle. It really comes down to the nipple. That’s the part babies interacting with. And if you’ve been to a baby store, you know that there’s a whole bunch of different kinds of bottle nipples.

 

00;10;49;27 – 00;11;26;18

Melissa Guerriero

So finding out what bottle nipple your baby likes and is able to take and then practicing using your pump, learning how to use your pump, and I suggest a pump at least once a day to have enough stored up for that first day or two back. So yeah, no less than two weeks. And really, after you have a baby and you get that nursing relationship all ironed out, whether there’s any, you know, oral ties or you need your Louch assessed by a professional, after you get that all ironed out, you can begin pumping.

 

00;11;26;20 – 00;11;57;09

Melissa Guerriero

I meant I wouldn’t go crazy because you mentioned that oversupply. You don’t want to, like, spiral, an accidental oversupply, but you can pump once a day nearly from the beginning, and people think, okay, well, like, if I’m nursing, will my milk run out? Well, nurse first. Yeah, always, always nurse first. And then keep in mind that unless you’re replacing a nursing session with a pumping session, any milk output you’re looking at is left over.

 

00;11;57;11 – 00;12;18;16

Melissa Guerriero

So don’t freak yourself out. If you only get half an ounce or an ounce right after nursing, you should have enough milk for your baby by the next time they’re hungry because breast milk is like. It’s like a river and not like a pond. So you’re not slowly, I’m doing a pond. You’re asking your body for milk. It’s giving you milk.

 

00;12;18;16 – 00;12;38;12

Melissa Guerriero

And then by the next time your baby is hungry, your body will produce another let down. And it’ll have enough milk to feed baby. So get those practice pumps in early. Oh, a good time of day to do it is after your first nurse of the day, because your body makes more milk. Generally makes more milk in those early morning hours.

 

00;12;38;16 – 00;12;45;15

Melissa Guerriero

So if you are worried about not having enough milk, it might give you some peace of mind to do it first thing in the morning.

 

00;12;45;17 – 00;13;05;04

Dr. Mona

That’s a great tip. I really like that because, again, having some sort of plan to, you know, kind of get ready for that transition and practice before is so important. What are some other common hurdles that you see when you’re starting to incorporate pumping maybe, emotionally, physically, some things that you hear or maybe, you know, that you’ve counseled other moms about.

 

00;13;05;07 – 00;13;32;20

Melissa Guerriero

So when you’re tied down to a pump, and you have a pump that is plugged into a wall, it often becomes difficult to care for a baby while you’re pumping. So again, like everything, practice makes perfect and you get really good at entertaining, baby, while you pump. Even feeding baby with a bottle while you pump milk, which seems impossible at first, but with a little practice.

 

00;13;32;23 – 00;13;56;20

Melissa Guerriero

And I have lots of examples on my Instagram page and on my website. You can get really good at multitasking, caring for a baby. You can even burp baby while pumping. I’ve changed diapers while pumping. So if you’re thinking, oh no, like I’m out of commission for the next 20 minutes or 30 minutes because I’m tied to this pump practice, talk to other moms what works for them?

 

00;13;56;22 – 00;14;00;18

Melissa Guerriero

How are they continuing to care for their baby while pumping?

 

00;14;00;20 – 00;14;09;26

Dr. Mona

These are great tips. And what would you say is your biggest tip or kind of mantra as a mom goes through this transition?

 

00;14;09;29 – 00;14;38;03

Melissa Guerriero

Oh my goodness. Just have grace with yourself, mama of grace with yourself and your body and your baby. There is so much that you can’t control. Do what you can, you know, honor your own specific journey. And then if you do need to begin to supplement with formula, that’s okay. So a baby will generally take about an ounce to an ounce and a half for every hour you’re away from them.

 

00;14;38;03 – 00;15;02;22

Melissa Guerriero

So in a typical workday, breast milk fed baby will take, let’s say, 3 to 4, four ounce bottles of milk. That’s pretty typical average, for a baby going to daycare. So say you only make ten ounces, but baby needs 16oz. Some moms get really freaked out and they think, oh my gosh, I have to start a formula.

 

00;15;02;22 – 00;15;11;03

Melissa Guerriero

And then what happens is they mentally put this upon themselves. Oh, I need to start formula. Well I’m just going to quit breastfeeding.

 

00;15;11;05 – 00;15;12;06

Dr. Mona

Yeah.

 

00;15;12;08 – 00;15;34;06

Melissa Guerriero

Altogether and switch to formula. You don’t have to. It is not all or nothing. Yes. So I just want to leave you with the encouragement that you know if you have to start feeding formula okay. Do it. And then nurse at home, you know, pump what you can at work, supplement the rest with formula and keep on nursing at home.

 

00;15;34;06 – 00;15;36;23

Melissa Guerriero

You can have it both ways.

 

00;15;36;26 – 00;15;49;03

Dr. Mona

Thank you so much for joining me. This was so great. Where can people find you again? Tell me about your social media channel. Anything else you want to you know where people can find you and get your support?

 

00;15;49;05 – 00;16;04;16

Melissa Guerriero

Yeah. Thanks for having me. You can find me on Instagram. That’s my main platform at pump underscore. Mama, momma underscore pump. So it’s pump mama pump with two underscores and pump mama pump.com.

 

00;16;04;18 – 00;16;22;02

Dr. Mona

I will be attaching all of these to my show notes everyone, because I myself get so much good information from Melissa’s page, which is why I wanted her on my podcast. So make sure you follow her like she said, I’ll add it to my show notes and visit her website. Thanks again for joining me. Melissa. Thank you for tuning in for this week’s episode.

 

00;16;22;02 – 00;16;35;18

Dr. Mona

As always, please leave a review. Share this episode with a friend. Share it on your social media. Make sure to follow me at PedsDocTalk on Instagram and subscribe to my YouTube channel, PedsDocTalk TV. We’ll talk to you soon.