I talk to Pediatric Dietitian, Jessica Gust, about ways to raise an intuitive eater.

Jessica and I chat about ways to raise an intuitive eater and what it means to be an intuitive eater. Allowing your child to have a positive relationship with food is important and we hope this episode can lay a healthy foundation for feeding your child.

00;00;06;25 – 00;00;37;09

Dr. Mona

Hey, everyone. Welcome to the PedsDocTalk podcast. I’m your host, Doctor Mona, where each week I hope to educate and inspire you in your journey through parenthood with information on your most common concerns as a parent and interviews with fellow parents and experts in the field. My hope is you leave each week feeling more educated, confident and empowered in the decisions you make for your child.

 

00;00;37;12 – 00;01;16;26

Dr. Mona

Hello! Welcome to this week’s episode. I am so happy to have Jessica Gust. She is a pediatric dietitian out in California, and she’s here today to talk about what she does as a pediatric dietitian, as well as ways that you can raise an intuitive eater. So I obviously what you do is important, and I wish we had access to more pediatric nutritionists, dietitians where I practice, you know, I I’m always trying to find find them in my area because I want families to have that help in terms of guiding their child in eating and guiding, obviously, how they approach eating, with their children.

 

00;01;17;03 – 00;01;27;22

Dr. Mona

What, how do most of your patients or clients find you? Is it through their pediatrician? Is it through a website? How do you, build your patient base?

 

00;01;27;24 – 00;01;54;24

Jessica Gust

Yeah, when I first started out, I was taking just really local referrals. So local pediatricians and other, health care facilities would refer people to me. But over the years, I expand did. And I now offer, both in-person services in my office but also in virtual. And so a lot of people are finding me online now, either through Instagram or other social channels, through Google, or even just through other health care providers.

 

00;01;54;24 – 00;02;12;29

Jessica Gust

So there’s other, you know, doctors and pediatricians and, people from around the world that help me even on social media that have recommended me to people. And, so it’s just been great, being able to move that to more of a, a virtual basis as well, because I just feel like I can connect with so many more people.

 

00;02;13;14 – 00;02;31;18

Jessica Gust

And of course, the approach that you take online is a little bit different, because you do have to be careful with state licensure laws and how you’re, you know, providing certain information. But the coaching aspect is, you know, really great. And I can still help people in a lot of different ways, virtually, in addition to in-person.

 

00;02;31;18 – 00;02;37;28

Dr. Mona

So and what age group do you usually see? What’s the youngest patient you have and what’s the oldest patient you have?

 

00;02;38;00 – 00;02;57;00

Jessica Gust

Usually the younger patients that are referred to me are when they’re starting college. So I work a lot with, moms who are just, you know, either starting their babies ourselves or starting to think about it. I do some presentations at some of our local. We have, a local class called the baby our at our, one of our hospitals and I do a starting called stop there.

 

00;02;57;13 – 00;03;11;11

Jessica Gust

A couple times a year. And so I do get some young ones that are around the six month age, of course. And then, I see up to 17. But I would say the majority of kids that I work with are between, zero and ten.

 

00;03;11;14 – 00;03;28;24

Dr. Mona

Okay. And in terms of the overall issues that you see, most of the families that are coming to you, obviously, when they’re introducing solids, do you find that they just don’t know where to start? Or do you find that they are fearful of anything? Or what are the biggest hurdles you’re seeing with parents and figuring out how to feed their children?

 

00;03;28;27 – 00;03;51;08

Jessica Gust

Yeah, I mean, if there’s actually a really wide range of things that I see, but most of the time they come because they don’t know where to start. And I see so many things online and they’re not sure what they should believe. Nowadays, with the increased interest in baby led weaning, I know a lot of people are wanting a little bit extra support because they’re even more fearful of either the gagging or the choking and what to expect and what’s normal.

 

00;03;51;18 – 00;04;08;01

Jessica Gust

But also just, you know, wanting to make sure they’re feeding their kids for the right things from the start. So, a lot of what I do there is, you know, providing confidence and direction as far as the types of foods and, you know, the appropriate transition and textures and then, you know, just differences in feeding methods.

 

00;04;08;14 – 00;04;20;02

Jessica Gust

But yeah, it really depends. And the baby, the baby, age. What they’re coming for. But most of the time it’s, it’s kind of general, uncertainty about what’s the best way to go.

 

00;04;20;05 – 00;04;39;04

Dr. Mona

Awesome. Yeah. I, you know, I’m, I wanted you to come on here, and I’m so glad I connected with you through Instagram because, you know, we talk a lot about this intuitive eater. And can you define what that means to you? Because I’m sure parents have heard that term. I actually have thrown out that term. I love it, but how would you define what an intuitive eater is?

 

00;04;39;06 – 00;05;08;06

Jessica Gust

Well, for me and in in my practice, in what I teach, you know, because there’s a lot of terms with intuitive eating. There is mindful eating, there’s, responsiveness. And responsive feeding is something that I really encourage parents to follow. And I kind of mesh all these things together. But essentially my goals when I’m working with parents is to help them understand how they can, teach their kids to listen to their hunger and focus and, be in the driver’s seat when it comes to what they’re eating.

 

00;05;08;19 – 00;05;23;18

Jessica Gust

So, you know, the parents role is to provide the nutritious food, but it’s up to the kid to decide if they’re going to eat it, how much they’re going to eat, when they’re going to, when they’re going to eat it. As far as like, you know, are they hungry right now or are they not? And that’s that’s the child role.

 

00;05;23;28 – 00;05;42;06

Jessica Gust

You know, the parents decide the time, but the kids decide if they’re gonna eat it or not. So, for me, when it comes to that topic, it’s more about helping parents feel confident and carrying that forward and making sure that they’re providing opportunity, for their kids to really listen to those, hunger cues with within them.

 

00;05;42;08 – 00;05;57;06

Jessica Gust

And a lot of times I see that kids are getting that overridden because of external things going on. Whether it’s parental pressure or other outside pressure. And it’s a concept that’s not, well understood by a lot of parents.

 

00;05;57;09 – 00;06;17;16

Dr. Mona

And that is why, you know, I wanted this episode to happen because even as a general pediatrician, I, I am very passionate about the introduction of solids and from the beginning, how important it is to look at this as a positive thing and how there are certain steps and strategies to kind of create a quote unquote good intuitive eater.

 

00;06;17;16 – 00;06;36;07

Dr. Mona

And I think there’s also just expectations that families have. You know, we as parents may expect our children to eat a certain amount, like you said, that we expect them to be a certain way when we’re not really looking at the kid in front of us. Right. So it’s so important that we remember that as pediatricians, as dietitians, as parents, that every kid is unique.

 

00;06;36;09 – 00;06;57;16

Dr. Mona

You have to work with, you know, what your kid’s giving you. And also just the temperament of the child. And there’s so many different things that come into parenting. And eating is almost, in a way, a parenting thing, right? It’s how you approach it. Your insecurities. Are you pushing it too much? Are you being too lax? And that’s, you’re right, very confusing to parents.

 

00;06;57;16 – 00;07;09;25

Dr. Mona

So we’re going to get started and talk about just a little bit, you know, what are some strategies that you would say in terms of laying that foundation for an intuitive eater? What would you say is like the first rule of intuitive eating?

 

00;07;09;28 – 00;07;28;24

Jessica Gust

Well, well, first, I guess it depends on how old the child is. But, you know, we’re talking about kind of that starting solids and babies. It’s really helping parents understand what responsible feeding looks like and how to read their child hunger cues. I think we’re pretty good at it when we’re, you know, nursing or or even bottle feeding.

 

00;07;29;04 – 00;07;49;18

Jessica Gust

But once solid start, you know, as parents, a lot of times, you know, we want them to take that one more spoonful or that one more bite, when in reality, that might not be what they want in that moment. So just teaching parents kind of in that age group how to read the signs and understand, you know, what baby might be telling you whether they’re full or whether they want more.

 

00;07;50;02 – 00;08;15;10

Jessica Gust

And then as kids get a little bit older, it’s really encouraging. Parents to use this outer division of responsibility where they are providing the food, but then they’re allowing their child to decide if they’re going to eat it. And then how much they’re going to eat. So by not micro managing them in the sense that, you know, they have to take a certain number of bites before they leave the table, or they have to eat a bite of one thing before they can have more of something else.

 

00;08;15;22 – 00;08;37;16

Jessica Gust

All of those that can kind of undermine the whole process of helping them become intuitive eaters. So, I think from a, the perspective of somebody just helping parents to, to understand that concept, it’s more just about education and, and kind of having that conversation with them on where to start and practical things that they can, can do at home.

 

00;08;37;19 – 00;08;56;07

Dr. Mona

So yeah, going to that sort of, you know, intro to solid phase, then do you recommend, you know, obviously families having some sort of schedule is routine important for you know, establishing an intuitive eater. How does that play an effect into these boundaries and creating that good eating habits?

 

00;08;56;10 – 00;09;23;20

Jessica Gust

Yeah. Well, when, when babies are first starting out, there’s not a whole lot of scheduling per se. I usually encourage parents to work more towards a schedule starting around the one year mark, but, it is good to have, you know, specified kind of feeding times as well in the starting solids age. But as you move into toddlerhood, that’s when the schedule really does become important because, especially for parents who have kids that, well, all kids would snack all day if they could.

 

00;09;23;20 – 00;09;45;20

Jessica Gust

I’m convinced of that. But, if that happens, then a lot of times they are just eating a little bit all day long and they aren’t really able to listen to hunger full cuz they’re almost just like overriding those through the snacking. And then they don’t eat as much at meals either. So, the schedule does become important there because it helps kids to develop an appetite between meal times.

 

00;09;45;20 – 00;09;51;07

Jessica Gust

And then that really helps them to be able to try and eat more foods during the actual meals.

 

00;09;51;10 – 00;10;14;10

Dr. Mona

Okay. And one of the biggest things I see is the use of screens. So, you know, obviously at meal time and I have many families that feel, you know, say, well, the only way that child is going to eat is if they’re distracted. What are your thoughts on screen use? I know everyone’s trying to just get by, but what would be your recommendation or feeling about screens during meal times?

 

00;10;14;12 – 00;10;33;21

Jessica Gust

So usually when I work with parents, I like to meet them where they’re at because if someone is using a screen at every single meal and I go in and say, get rid of off screens, the likelihood that they’re going to be successful, is very low. However, in general, I’m not a huge fan of using screens at meals because screens become a distraction.

 

00;10;33;24 – 00;11;05;25

Jessica Gust

So I would say the ultimate goal is to help parents work towards getting screens out of meals, at least on a regular basis. But again, it’s not generally like a, you know, a cold turkey situation where I just go in and cut them out altogether. So, one thing that I because I find that anytime you’re learning a concept, it’s nice to have examples, but if you think about any time where you may have sat down on the couch with that or chips in your hand and you know you’re watching TV or, you know, show or movie and you’re just kind of eating, and all of a sudden you look down in your bag

 

00;11;05;25 – 00;11;31;01

Jessica Gust

of chips is totally gone, and you don’t even remember eating that whole entire bag of chips. So that’s kind of a concept of mindless eating. And at distraction is kind of what creates that situation. Children are born with the ability to understand their hunger and focus until we kind of guide them to override that. And so using the screen is kind of an example of how that can start to happen.

 

00;11;31;01 – 00;11;52;12

Jessica Gust

Because yes, as a parent, they might feel good. Their kids are eating a meal by watching a screen. It’s actually teaching them not to listen to their, their own hunger cues because it’s being overridden by something else that’s being distracting. So I mean, ultimately the goal is to try and get the screens out. But it is a process sometimes.

 

00;11;52;14 – 00;12;12;07

Dr. Mona

Yeah. I usually, you know, in my general pediatric practice, I, when I, I talk about the introduction of solids is such an important phase. Right. Like people forget that they’re like, what, about four months? Six months? Why does it matter? I’m like, no, no, no, from the beginning. If you can avoid it, then it’s like that child never even knew it existed, right?

 

00;12;12;07 – 00;12;30;22

Dr. Mona

So that’s why I love that you also emphasize that first five years and obviously going downstream, because that’s kind of where we have to set up those habits. Because, yeah, I see a lot of successful eating relationship with, you know, without screens. And it can be done. It just has to be sort of that sort of, okay, let’s try it.

 

00;12;30;22 – 00;12;49;19

Dr. Mona

If we’ve already introduced it, let’s find ways to maybe reduce it at some meals. And like you said, kind of not cold turkey because it could be chaos, but kind of get that, get that removed. And yeah, what are you said, you said, signs of hunger and fullness cues. What would be what would those look like to a family least?

 

00;12;49;23 – 00;12;54;27

Dr. Mona

Maybe we can go, you know, you can go by little different age groups than maybe starting young and going a little older.

 

00;12;55;00 – 00;13;20;01

Jessica Gust

Sure. So for babies, some, some very typical signs are if they turn their head so if you’re doing spoon cleaning, for example, and they turn their head away from the spoon or kind of swap the spoon out of the way or, don’t open their mouth when you bring the spoon to them. So ideally, if you’re doing spoon feeding and you know, you’re, you’re letting your baby lean towards the spoon and you’re watching their mouth open, and that’s a sign that they want to take more.

 

00;13;20;17 – 00;13;37;07

Jessica Gust

But if you’re kind of trying to force the spoon in their mouth or press it on their lips to get them to open their mouth, that may be overriding those signs a little bit. As you move a little bit older into maybe toddlerhood. They’re pretty good at letting you know when they’re done most of the time.

 

00;13;37;07 – 00;14;00;12

Jessica Gust

But if you start noticing getting really fidgety, or playing with or throwing food, a lot of times those are signs that the meal is done as well. And if you have those that schedule in place that we talked about earlier, that’s the better chance that your child’s going to come hungry. Because a lot of parents will tell me, well, I said I should them down at the table and they start doing that stuff immediately.

 

00;14;00;15 – 00;14;19;03

Jessica Gust

So then my question is, okay, well, when was the last time they ate? And often they had recently had a snack. So, in order to listen to those hunger cues and let them do that, they have to have the ability and the opportunity to to do so. So you can look for some of those signs and toddlers.

 

00;14;19;03 – 00;14;27;22

Jessica Gust

And then, you know, as kids get older, they can tell you I’m hungry or I’m not hungry. And it’s something that you can have a conversation with them about and get them thinking about.

 

00;14;27;25 – 00;14;42;18

Dr. Mona

And what other things would you add in terms of, you know, ways that we can create an intuitive eater? I know we talked about, you know, schedules are great listening to the body, the fullness and hunger cues. But what else could you add in terms of that sort of foundation?

 

00;14;43;05 – 00;15;19;00

Jessica Gust

Well, I think, you know, part of raising an intuitive eater is a combination of all of the things. And also just kind of opening the conversation and getting your kids involved as well. Because I think a lot of times, you know, when, especially when kids are starting to enter that the dreaded picky eating phase that happens in toddlerhood, that’s when parents struggle most with their concept of intuitive eating, because they almost want their child to eat so badly that they’ll do anything to get them to take a bite.

 

00;15;19;06 – 00;15;48;20

Jessica Gust

And a lot of times that turns into kind of coaxing or bribing. Sometimes we see things like food rewards. You know, if you eat this, then you can have this, and it’s usually something like a sweet or an ice cream or something like that. So, when you do something like a food reward or you bribe them with something, that’s kind of a backwards way of overriding their hunger cues because, they’re learning that in order to get this food they want, they have to eat something that they’re maybe not really hungry for.

 

00;15;48;22 – 00;16;15;04

Jessica Gust

So, that’s why I’m a big concept of, you know, parents doing dessert with meal versus dessert after the meal. Because basically, if you, when you have it after the meal, what you’re telling them is, you know, eat till you’re full and then you can have this extra thing that you really wanted. So that would be something that I would probably add to that is just, you know, trying to, avoid doing food rewards and bribing related to sweets and treats.

 

00;16;15;07 – 00;16;31;23

Dr. Mona

Yeah, that, that sort of labeling as well. You have to eat your green beans to get something good kind of labels that as green beans are bad. I mean, obviously we’re not saying that, but for kids it’s like, oh, I have to just get through this to get to something I actually want. Which means that that’s just a hassle to do.

 

00;16;31;23 – 00;16;41;25

Dr. Mona

Like it’s it’s not labeling these foods as just something nutritious and that we have to just do. It’s kind of putting it in like a good and bad category is what I kind of see do. Would you agree?

 

00;16;41;28 – 00;16;57;06

Jessica Gust

Absolutely, yes. And they I think in their mind they think, well, if I have to do this to get to that, then that food must really be good. And then I get kind of held up on a pedestal, and then you start to see some sweet, obsessed kids coming out to because they’re like, oh, you know, that food was good, good.

 

00;16;57;09 – 00;17;18;19

Jessica Gust

So I’m going to want to, you know, that’s the food I want to fixate on. So, so I’m a big fan of kind of leveling the playing field when it comes to foods and trying to avoid language that would indicate one food is healthier than another. Even though I know that’s really hard for parents. But I find that when parents start to, you know, initially it’s it’s not always going to happen that way.

 

00;17;18;19 – 00;17;35;23

Jessica Gust

But once they, they start to be consistent with this concept, you’d be surprised. You know, your kids aren’t always necessarily going to just gobble down that dessert, which they might have initially, because they recognize that it’s not something that’s restricted to them. And so that’s, you know, something that’s really desirable.

 

00;17;35;25 – 00;17;56;09

Dr. Mona

Yeah. I, you know, I see a lot of this. Yeah. This sort of I’m going to give you this and we’re going to or you’re going to get this dessert if you eat this vegetable. And I see that the parents sometimes don’t understand that there’s a behavioral component, obviously, around eating, I, I know me and you are talking and obviously we both know.

 

00;17;56;09 – 00;18;16;15

Dr. Mona

But that sort of relationship with food, it’s a positive relationship that I have seen to the point where kids have been forced to eat, to the point where they don’t want to eat anymore. And I see this commonly where I’m like, well, like they’re just so stressed from the experience, right? Because someone’s hounding them, you need to eat one bite, whatever it may be.

 

00;18;16;20 – 00;18;33;29

Dr. Mona

And that kid just loses that desire to want to enjoy a meal. And that’s why I’m so passionate about this. Because food is nutritious. Food should not be looked at of bad or good or reward. It should be looked at. This is something that sustains us, and this is something that is good for us and not a test.

 

00;18;34;06 – 00;18;54;14

Dr. Mona

And I’m afraid that a lot of parents I’m seeing are looking at eating as a task. Right? Because time is limited and you just want your children to eat. What would you say to that family who, you know, obviously there’s a situation a toddler who won’t eat anything in a meal, right? They’ve they’ve tried. They give just say example.

 

00;18;54;14 – 00;19;13;29

Dr. Mona

They give green beans and like shredded chicken and they don’t eat that meal. Do you feel it’s a good thing for you, for the family to go to the kitchen and maybe get something else? Or how would you navigate that sort of refusal in one meal setting with a toddler? I know it can be very child to child situation by situation, but what would be your like advice in that situation?

 

00;19;14;01 – 00;19;38;15

Jessica Gust

So when when parents. So a couple of things with that. So one I totally so I actually have a toddler and I totally understand the stress that comes with the whining and the pulling and the I don’t want that. And, you know, everything that comes with that. I fully and 100% understand it’s so hard, so I have to remind myself that I know what it’s like when you’re in those situations, and sometimes you just want to be like, okay, just have it.

 

00;19;39;13 – 00;19;59;06

Jessica Gust

But the reality is that when you start to lean towards that consistent making effect, second meal, the first thing that happens is as a parent, you get totally exhausted because not only are you making one meal, but then you’re making a whole nother meal, and then the stress level goes up even more and your kids can read off your stress levels.

 

00;19;59;09 – 00;20;35;29

Jessica Gust

But the other thing that happens is, when you make that second meal, they’re not really, learning to ever like anything new because you’re always kind of reverting back to those same foods over and over. So what it’s doing is it’s increasing the amount that they like those foods and not really helping them like anything new. So one way that parents can kind of get around that is by making the meal that they’re planning to make, but then trying to think of at least one, but ideally two, foods that you can include at that meal that might be comfort related foods are more familiar foods.

 

00;20;36;01 – 00;20;59;03

Jessica Gust

So you mentioned green beans and chicken earlier. And maybe those two foods are kind of new or less familiar to the child, but maybe the child has a fruit that they, the parent knows they like, or maybe they like milk or soy milk or pea milk. Or maybe it’s bread or garlic toast. They can think about other components that they could add to the meal.

 

00;20;59;03 – 00;21;17;18

Jessica Gust

So add to the chicken and green beans so that the child would come to the table, see that there’s something they like there and not throw that fit for something different. Instead of having to make a whole nother meal, the parents just may be adding to the meal they’re already making, so that makes it less stressful for the parent.

 

00;21;17;18 – 00;21;27;22

Jessica Gust

And it also helps the child come to the table with a higher level of comfort, which means are more likely to even try that thing that they maybe didn’t want to try initially.

 

00;21;27;24 – 00;21;44;21

Dr. Mona

Yeah. And I you know, that stress level is exactly it because that obviously we’re exhausted and you just want your child to eat. And that stress obviously can absolutely go down to that child. And I seen that right. Because they’re just the kid is stressed because the kid’s like, I don’t know what I’m supposed to do with this.

 

00;21;44;21 – 00;22;04;04

Dr. Mona

You’re supposed to show me what I’m supposed to do with this. And I spoke about this in another episode of my podcast, about 15 things we need to stop doing as parents. And I talk about this sort of intuitive eating and how we are afraid of our kids because we’re afraid to, in a way, we’re afraid to see them upset because we feel like we’re not being good parents.

 

00;22;04;04 – 00;22;27;10

Dr. Mona

If they cry, if they’re, you know, if you don’t cave in and give them the cookie, or if you don’t cave in and give them what they want, that we’re depriving them of love when it’s not that right, it’s just boundary setting and kind of understanding that they’re not going to love everything we do. And it’s okay. And accepting that it’s okay, and understanding that we’re doing the best thing for our kid and that we are providing them nutrition.

 

00;22;27;15 – 00;22;49;08

Dr. Mona

And, you know, the I love that rule that you said about the the scheduling, I do like that rule. I think that that children from a pediatric standpoint, we know really thrive on routine and schedule. It creates a sense of security, right now, we’re recording this episode during the Covid 19 outbreak, and adults need it too, right? We need routine and expectation.

 

00;22;49;08 – 00;23;13;05

Dr. Mona

When things are chaotic and in a toddler’s mind, everything’s chaotic like so having that routine and saying, okay, three meals a day, two snacks, this is when you’re going to be getting food. This is when your naps are coming. It can create that sort of expectation where we may start to see I’ve seen it in my practice. Less of that, you know, descent of, oh my gosh, I don’t want to do it because I’m like, oh well, I’m hungry now.

 

00;23;13;05 – 00;23;22;16

Dr. Mona

Yeah, I’ll, I’ll try this. And am I right that you need to expose the child to one food multiple times before they may even take one little bite of it, right.

 

00;23;22;18 – 00;23;44;13

Jessica Gust

Yeah. And the research is kind of all over the place, like some say eight times, some say 15. Honestly, for some it’s like 20 plus exposures. And and the other thing with exposures, I think parents get really fixated on the fact that they’re like, oh, I have to make this food that many times. Well, it’s not like, you know, it has to be like, you know, over and over in a row and in a consecutive amount of days.

 

00;23;44;13 – 00;24;03;10

Jessica Gust

It’s just recognizing that if you make something and your kid says, I don’t like that, or they they won’t eat it in a meal, that doesn’t mean no forever. It just means no for now. And it’s okay. It’s okay if they don’t want to eat something right now. But it’s not okay to never make it again because they’re never going to like it again if you don’t keep trying.

 

00;24;03;10 – 00;24;33;19

Jessica Gust

So, and then exposure can be more than just making it to it can be interacting with it in different ways. I’m a big fan of food play. So something I do in my practice, and with my clients and also in my online membership for parents, is we incorporate food, play as much as we can. And it can be as simple as getting them in the kitchen and helping or playing with the stocks of, you know, asparagus that you’ve cut off, making funny faces on food with other food.

 

00;24;33;29 – 00;24;51;24

Jessica Gust

There’s so many different types of food play that you can do with kids to get them interacting and exposed to it without the pressure of actually eating. So there’s a lot of things like that that you can do that can actually help with picky eating in a way that doesn’t feel scary to them, especially in like the toddler preschool age.

 

00;24;51;27 – 00;25;08;20

Dr. Mona

And that’s why, you know, baby led weaning is so popular, right? Because you’re allowing that child to play or, you know, touch the food, smell it, get really messy. And you are you know, we talked about parents are, you know, in a way afraid of their kids being upset. They’re also afraid of mess. And I hear that all the time.

 

00;25;08;20 – 00;25;27;01

Dr. Mona

Right? It’s like, well, I can’t I don’t have time to clean. I, you know, speaking personally, I used to be a neat freak. I had order in my apartment. I things need to be put away once we had our son, who’s now three months, I’ve had to drop a lot of that. And things are a mess. And sometimes I don’t clean.

 

00;25;27;01 – 00;25;44;23

Dr. Mona

Right. And it’s it’s sort of dropping that sort of expectation that the mess is good for kids and eating. It’s it’s good for them in play. Right. Like even if it’s just the paint or anything else. But with food, it’s just really good for them to feel it because they’re not as scared of it. Right? Like, they, they’re they look at it, they’re like, oh, well, I get to touch it.

 

00;25;44;23 – 00;25;59;02

Dr. Mona

I could smell it. And I see the kids who do baby lead weaning or even something similar to that. You know, if you’re if parents aren’t comfortable, the fact when they’re allowed to play with their food in a good way, it’s really, really good for them. I, I completely agree with that.

 

00;25;59;04 – 00;26;26;20

Jessica Gust

Yeah. And it just it, it brings alive all their senses. So you were saying, you know, touch and smell, but also, you know, seeing and interacting with and you know, and when babies and young kids get food on their hands and on their face, they’re less likely to have some of those other issues with, you know, sensory picky eating type stuff later because they’re exposed to it in a way that, is more positive.

 

00;26;26;20 – 00;26;45;07

Jessica Gust

They’re not being told. So. So when you start to see issues, especially in the the parents that are constantly wiping their baby’s face, or they’ll take one bite and then they’ll wipe their hand with a white, and, you know, they immediately take the mess away versus letting them just kind of, you know, sit in it until they’re done and then, you know, at the very end dealing with that kind of stuff.

 

00;26;45;17 – 00;26;53;16

Jessica Gust

So, yeah, the messier the better from the perspective of helping them learn to like food, not always from the cleaning up part, but.

 

00;26;53;18 – 00;27;11;15

Dr. Mona

Yeah. And, you know, as a general pediatrician, my, my niche is infant toddler development. You know, I know me. And you had talked about how the first five years are so important. And I really like to remind families that eating is in a way, milestone. Right. It is like you’re asking for months happened, six months happened.

 

00;27;11;15 – 00;27;28;11

Dr. Mona

We’re eating. Yay! And you’re looking at the cues to be able to eat. Since we have a moment, I wanted to ask you what would be the cue that they’re ready to start solid foods or, you know, obviously, if you’re doing purees at 4 or 6 months, what would be those signs of readiness? Going into that intuitive eater.

 

00;27;28;11 – 00;27;29;14

Dr. Mona

Yeah, yeah.

 

00;27;29;20 – 00;27;59;07

Jessica Gust

So, the AARP and several other organizations, you know, they recommend starting salads around six months when babies show signs. So it could be a bit before, it could be a bit after. And some of those signs include, you know, the absence of the tongue thrust. So when babies no longer using their tongue to, you know, push the food out of their mouth and they’re able to move a little bit more laterally, being able to sit mostly independently, they don’t need to be able to get all the way up by themselves, but they shouldn’t flap over.

 

00;27;59;19 – 00;28;19;04

Jessica Gust

They need to be able to have good positioning in the chair. They should be showing signs by bringing objects to their mouth. Like being able to pick it up with their hands and bring it to their mouth. And, you know, there’s a lot of times parents are like, oh, well, my baby’s ready because he’s tracking with his eyes at meals.

 

00;28;19;04 – 00;28;39;23

Jessica Gust

He looks like he’s interested in food. That is also a sign, but you need to have most of the signs together. And I think the most important one is this. The being able to sit almost independently, because that’s usually the one that comes last. So, you know, you just because your baby is, you know, seeming like they’re interested when you are eating your food.

 

00;28;39;25 – 00;29;02;19

Jessica Gust

That alone is not a sign that they are ready. You need to have a collection of time. So again, it’s usually around the six month mark. Different for every baby and especially for babies born prematurely that might be pushed back a little bit. Four months generally is on the early side, but for some babies, especially ones that are, you know, pretty high allergies risk.

 

00;29;02;19 – 00;29;14;17

Jessica Gust

A lot of times they will recommend earlier introduction because of the protective benefits, as you know. So that’s why that 4 to 6 range is kind of there. But most babies are already a little bit closer to the six month mark.

 

00;29;14;19 – 00;29;36;16

Dr. Mona

And yeah, you you know, you reference the AP. I know this is not an intro to solids talk, but obviously it’s all related for this eating. But yeah, we normally at at our visits we actually usually talk about it at the four months. And they’re you know, I’m surprised that there’s actually a lot of uproar about that because I’ve heard, you know, sometimes, like how could you introduce so early some babies already as early as four months.

 

00;29;36;16 – 00;29;56;12

Dr. Mona

Like I said, it’s a milestone, right? So the reason why general pediatricians talk about it at the four month visit is that we’re encompassing any baby. If all the you’re right, you said those signs beautifully because that’s obviously from the AP. And that’s what we say too. But if they’re showing all the signs, they could show that I have seen in my office babies at four months have all those signs.

 

00;29;56;12 – 00;30;14;26

Dr. Mona

Babies at five months, babies are six months. It’s not anything bad or good if someone’s doing it earlier than later, but it is a milestone that we have to accept that, hey, if they’re showing it, you’re right that it is ready. We can start doing it. If they’re showing that interest, I want them to explore the food. And you said you brought up the allergy component, right?

 

00;30;14;26 – 00;30;36;10

Dr. Mona

That yeah, AP is now recommending and this has been for a while. That early introduction is actually good for the immune system that lives in our gut to prevent allergies. So it’s that whole combination that it’s a child’s ready and showing those signs. I want the family to feel motivated and ready to go. Obviously talking to their pediatrician about, you know, if they have allergy risks or anything like that.

 

00;30;37;00 – 00;30;56;25

Dr. Mona

If they’re breastfeeding versus formula, like how, you know, how they can kind of finagle that and maybe we can record another episode about that. But it’s so important that when they are ready that they’re the parents are excited about it. Like, right. I think there shouldn’t be a fear. There should be a yes, I love my baby and I know they’re growing up, but this is an awesome thing.

 

00;30;56;25 – 00;31;16;17

Dr. Mona

This is a milestone. Let’s let’s enjoy this. And from the moment they start introducing food, it should be I’m excited to do this. I’m patient with my kid. I’m persistent with the introduction of food, and I’m I’m also smiling when I’m giving you the food. I, you know, families have actually in my office showed how they feed their kid because they’re so nervous.

 

00;31;16;17 – 00;31;32;09

Dr. Mona

Like my kid’s not eating. I’m like, why don’t we look, I’m not a nutrition, but I’m like, why don’t we see? And so they bring out their food, you know, whatever it is, like a bottle of food. And then they’ll give the food and the parents are like tense. They’re like they’re, they’re so tense about it. I’m like, take a breath, relax.

 

00;31;32;09 – 00;31;52;22

Dr. Mona

Because you have to enjoy it to your face. And what they’re seeing is really important. And having had Ryan, I see that 100%. My mood is Ryan’s mood in many ways, and it’s in many situations already with feeding and behavior that there is a nurture component that is absolutely there, especially with feeding.

 

00;31;52;28 – 00;32;04;23

Jessica Gust

And I think that continues even past babyhood to into to an older kids, you know, kids can totally read when they’re when their parents are stressed out. I know mine can.

 

00;32;04;26 – 00;32;23;11

Dr. Mona

Oh, yeah. Like right now, I mean, with with bottle feeding. Right. Like, and I have, you know, families when they come in for bottle feeding that or breastfeeding that they won’t, you know, they won’t take the feeding. I’m like, did you relax yourself when you started to feed? And you’re right when you said this earlier that it has the concepts are very similar to breast milk and formula.

 

00;32;23;12 – 00;32;42;00

Dr. Mona

This sort of we know they’re signs that they’re full. We know that they’re hungry. But yet when we start solids we forget those cues. And I I’m kind of surprised by that. Right. Because it’s the babies. The babies are smart. They know what they need to do. But we create the sort of, oh my gosh, I, I need them to eat more.

 

00;32;42;00 – 00;33;07;28

Dr. Mona

Or maybe they’re not. And I love that we talked about this because I want them to kind of understand that concept that even from that breast milk and formula stage, they were doing what they need to do. And they absolutely can do it in infancy, with food, with toddlerhood, with food. But we have to kind of say, okay, I’m going to do what I can do, but let my kid kind of run the show in some ways, with the amount they eat and their hunger cues and their fullness cues.

 

00;33;07;28 – 00;33;26;23

Dr. Mona

So I, I love, love, love that we have this conversation. Is there anything else that you would want to add that you know, your you know, your tips, what you could tell any parent when they’re starting food or, you know, if you could just put it on a billboard in terms of creating a well-rounded eater, what would be your kind of final statement?

 

00;33;26;26 – 00;33;48;21

Jessica Gust

I just want to encourage parents to have fun with it. I know that we don’t always associate feeding and food with fun because in our minds, it’s something that we have to do and it becomes so stressful. But it doesn’t have to be that way. And I think when you do remember that it is fun. It is a bonding experience with your child.

 

00;33;48;24 – 00;34;20;10

Jessica Gust

You’re bonding with your baby, you’re bonding with your toddler, you’re bonding with your older kids and use it as a way to connect and kind of come together. And just remember that food and feeding is love. And so when you can approach it from that perspective, I think it helps change your mindset about how you’re how you’re doing it and, and what you’re feeling because, you know, it’s so it’s so important for kids to just have that togetherness with their parents, whether it’s just one parent, whether it’s multiple parents, whether it’s a whole family, no matter how big your family is.

 

00;34;20;10 – 00;34;32;10

Jessica Gust

Just that connection that you make at at meals from the very start and going on is just so huge and it can impact so many other areas and the kids lives, even if they even as they get older.

 

00;34;32;12 – 00;34;57;11

Dr. Mona

Oh yeah, I, I love the way you speak about this. I have, you know, through Instagram, I’ve been able to meet so many specialists in the area of pediatrics, and it’s always such a pleasure talking, talking to you guys because I learn things, but also hearing how passionate people are about their specialties. Right. Like earlier this week, I spoke to a pediatric adolescent medicine doctor, and you obviously are so passionate about it and so am I.

 

00;34;57;15 – 00;35;22;21

Dr. Mona

I love nutrition, I wish I knew more about, you know, what kinds of foods and you know, what are the best nutritious foods. And, you know, we as pediatricians don’t get that training in terms of, you know, what? What exactly should we be putting in this meal? We say, okay, well, do a variety. And I am just so grateful that the world has amazing pediatric nutritionists like you and on social media doing what you’re doing.

 

00;35;22;21 – 00;35;39;24

Dr. Mona

So thank you, because I eating is one of those big areas that I know families really struggle with. So I can express my gratitude from my my patients and my Instagram followers and anyone who’s ever struggled with their child in eating because it’s it’s a hard it’s a hard time for a lot of families.

 

00;35;39;26 – 00;35;55;20

Jessica Gust

Thank you. Yeah, I know everyone brings such uniqueness to the table and I think it’s important. And that’s why having different, you know, disciplines in an area of expertise, this is so critical of people because everyone brings, you know, something different and can really help in different ways. So it’s been great. Connecting.

 

00;35;55;23 – 00;36;18;03

Dr. Mona

Yes. And everyone her Instagram I’m going to attach it to my show notes. Again it’s Element Nutrition kids and her infographics and just her visuals are so amazing in terms of these rules that we talked about these sort of boundary setting, but also just anything in regards to nutrition for your children. So definitely, definitely check out her Instagram account.

 

00;36;18;03 – 00;36;31;13

Dr. Mona

And I know we’re probably going to be talking again because I love everything that you say in terms of the passion you have and the message that you’re trying to give families. So thank you so much, Jessica. I really, really appreciate it.

 

00;36;31;16 – 00;36;49;18

Jessica Gust

You’re welcome. And I would just add one more thing to, if you are struggling with a picky eater or starting solids with your baby, I have two really great free resources that, you, your listeners can download, and I’ll send the link to you if you’d like it. Yeah. And they can also find it on my Instagram profile, of course.

 

00;36;49;18 – 00;37;00;25

Jessica Gust

But, it might be, you know, just a way to, you know, take what I, what I kind of talked about with you today a little bit further and just, you know, really get a little bit extra of what they’re needing on those two topics.

 

00;37;00;27 – 00;37;21;27

Dr. Mona

Absolutely. I can put that link in the show notes on my website, too. That is awesome, because I want to give any resource we can to our families especially. You know, I’m going to be uploading this episode during the Covid 19 outbreak. I really want our families to continue doing what we need to do with our kids raising them, feeding them, creating good eaters, creating mindful children.

 

00;37;21;27 – 00;37;29;09

Dr. Mona

Because the the times are tough right now and I love that you offer your offering that because I want to offer that too. So thank you again.

 

00;37;29;11 – 00;37;31;10

Jessica Gust

Thank you. I spend so great talking to you.

 

00;37;31;12 – 00;37;50;29

Dr. Mona

Thank you for tuning in for this week’s episode. I hope you guys enjoyed it. As always, please leave a review, share it with a friend, comment on my social media and if you’re not already, follow me at PedsDocTalk on Instagram. I love doing this for all of you. Have a great rest of your week. Take care. Talk to you soon!