We’re raising girls in a world where filters are the norm, “what I eat in a day” videos flood their feeds, and puberty hits earlier than ever. It’s no wonder body image struggles start young.

In this episode, I’m joined by Dr. Melisa Holmes to talk about how parents can help their daughters build confidence in their changing bodies without shame, fear, or comparison. We’ll cover how to talk about puberty in age-appropriate ways, what to do when kids start noticing body differences, and how to handle tricky moments like when your child says, “I feel fat.”

You’ll also learn:

• Why body image starts long before puberty

• What not to say (and what helps instead)

• How your own body talk shapes how your child feels about theirs

• How social media is shaping kids’ self-worth—and what parents can do about it

To connect with Dr. Melisa Holmes check out all her resources at ⁠https://girlology.com/⁠.  Follow her on Instagram at @dr.melisa.holmes and @girlology. 

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00:00 – The First Signs of Body Image Struggles

02:03 – Welcome, Dr. Melisa Holmes

03:06 – Breaking the Silence Between Generations

04:01 – Media, AI, and the Shifting Ideal

04:48 – Why It Starts So Young

07:02 – Boys, Girls, and Body Pressure

08:33 – Growing Up in a Filtered World

09:34 – Teaching Media Literacy and Self-Protection

12:07 – Modeling Confidence from the Start

15:23 – How Parents Pass Down Body Shame

20:22 – Reclaiming Joy in Food and Movement

22:49 – Puberty Talks Without the Awkwardness

26:51 – Raising Compassionate Boys Too

30:33 – Supporting Emotional Changes in Puberty

33:33 – What Every Girl Should Know About Her Body

36:22 – Parents, Schools, and the Role of Education

38:40 – Final Takeaway

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00;00;00;03 – 00;00;27;28

Melisa Holmes

Yeah, you know, I. I’m with you. I have seen girls in my practice as young as 5 or 6. Talk about their fat tummy or having to be skinny. And there’s definitely some evidence that shows that body image concerns can start as early as the preschool years, like 3 to 6. But what’s consistent across all of this, and where I think we can really focus our efforts, is that by middle school, half in some studies say up to 66% of girls are unhappy with their bodies.

 

00;00;28;00 – 00;00;37;22

Melisa Holmes

And by high school, that bumps up to 80%.

 

00;00;37;24 – 00;01;05;05

Dr. Mona

Hey, welcome to the show. It’s me, Doctor Mona, your trusted online doctor, confidante and mom friend here to support you through every twist and turn of parenting. You’re listening to the show where we have honest, evidence based conversations to help you raise confident, compassionate, and grounded children. October 11th was International Day of the Girl Child, a day meant to highlight the challenges girls face and to celebrate their power, potential and right to grow up confident and respected.

 

00;01;05;05 – 00;01;23;08

Dr. Mona

And isn’t that right? But here’s the reality. By middle school, more than half of girls say that they’re unhappy with their bodies, and by high school, that number jumps to 80%. What are we doing as a society when our girls and maybe boys as well, are growing up believing that their worth depends on how they look instead of who they are?

 

00;01;23;10 – 00;01;41;25

Dr. Mona

Body image isn’t just a girl issue, it’s a human one. I’m raising both a son and a daughter, and I think about this a lot. How they see me talk about my body. How they hear us say that we’re working out because it makes us feel good, not because we have to. We want them both to know that their bodies are for living in, not for performing in.

 

00;01;41;28 – 00;02;03;15

Dr. Mona

Today I’m joined by Doctor Melissa Holmes, board certified ob gyn and co-founder of girl ology, a platform that’s changing how families talk about puberty, body image and self-worth with confidence and zero cringe. We’ll talk about how early body image issues begin, how parents can model healthy relationships with our own bodies, and how to make puberty talks feel normal, not awkward.

 

00;02;03;18 – 00;02;24;08

Dr. Mona

Whether this is your first episode or your hundredth, take a second to subscribe, download and favorite and binge all of those episodes. Because everyone. That is what helps the show grow and keeps these important conversations reaching more caregivers. Let’s get into it.

 

00;02;24;11 – 00;02;36;06

Dr. Mona

Thank you so much for joining me today, Melissa. We are so excited to talk about raising body confident girls in a world full of filters, myths and misinformation. And I’m so happy that you’re joining me today.

 

00;02;36;08 – 00;02;45;14

Melisa Holmes

I thank you so much for having me. I love your platform and just the way it gives out such practical information for parents and providers and just everyone. So thank you.

 

00;02;45;20 – 00;03;06;12

Dr. Mona

Thank you. And you know, I love having a wide range of guests on my platform. And that’s the beauty of being a pediatrician and that I don’t have to get super niche down right. I can have puberty experts, females, female experts, mental health experts, anything that helps parents raise their children in a more confident way and in a way that the child can have self-love.

 

00;03;06;12 – 00;03;37;11

Dr. Mona

And, you know, I’m obviously a woman. I have a daughter, and I grew up in a house where we never talked about any of this sex periods, anything like I I’m being very transparent. My mom wouldn’t let me use a tampon until I went to college, and I was an athlete, and I hated it. Right. Like having to not be able to use a tampon and like that basic stuff that I didn’t get from my own mom, who didn’t have that education herself, breaking that generational lack of education is what we need.

 

00;03;37;11 – 00;03;46;10

Dr. Mona

So this is such an important conversation, so that girls learn to love themselves and all parts of themselves, even the parts that have been taboo for so long.

 

00;03;46;12 – 00;04;01;18

Melisa Holmes

Right? And that taboo, I mean, it’s so comes from our parents, and you’re not the only one who grew up feeling like that. I hear that all the time in my office. So the fact that we’re here trying to break this generational cycle is just going to do so much for the future of our daughters.

 

00;04;01;21 – 00;04;24;00

Dr. Mona

And the generations have changed, right? When we talk about body image and women, you know, obviously the the standard has always change based on media, right? Like what what little girls have seen in magazines. Like, I remember growing up and seeing certain certain body types in all those magazines at the newsstand and now social media and the dangers of AI and filters.

 

00;04;24;08 – 00;04;48;20

Dr. Mona

And so all of it is constantly changing, and we often assume that body image issues start in the teen years. And I’ve heard and have met girls as young as 5 or 6, expressed worries about their bodies. At what age do you typically see these concerns begin, and what do you think is contributing to this early body awareness and maybe even early body shame?

 

00;04;48;22 – 00;05;08;27

Melisa Holmes

Yeah. You know, I I’m with you. I have seen girls in my practice as young as 5 or 6 talk about their fat tummy or how they need to be skinny. And there’s definitely some evidence that shows that body image concerns can start as early as the preschool years, like 3 to 6. But those yeah, those rates vary widely by 20 to 70% depending on how they’re measuring it.

 

00;05;08;27 – 00;05;35;15

Melisa Holmes

And the population they’re measuring. But what’s consistent across all of this, and where I think we can really focus our efforts, is that by middle school, half in some studies say up to 66% of girls are unhappy with their bodies. And by high school that bumps up to 80%. So, I mean, the problem is pervasive and progressive. And, you know, you just mentioned a lot of what’s driving it.

 

00;05;35;15 – 00;05;58;13

Melisa Holmes

But what I want to emphasize is that girls are not born this way. Yeah. They are not born disliking their bodies. It is I learned behavior, it’s passed down generationally. You know, in particular, girls are modeling what they see in their mothers or other influential women in their lives. There are tremendous cultural and social expectations to look and behave a certain way.

 

00;05;58;13 – 00;06;15;10

Melisa Holmes

Right? We’re supposed to be small. We’re not supposed to take up a lot of space. Things like that. And then as girls get a little older and hit that puberty range, and they’re going through some brain changes, which we can talk about being an impact on here. They start to become a little more focused on fitting in.

 

00;06;15;16 – 00;06;35;02

Melisa Holmes

Yeah. And I think they feel like if they if they can’t meet that ideal that they’re seeing out there that they’re supposed to look like, then they begin to judge themselves and objectify themselves. So I think those are the things that drive it the most for girls. So it’s not there. It’s complicated. Right. There’s no it’s not just social media.

 

00;06;35;02 – 00;06;39;04

Melisa Holmes

It’s not just their mothers. It’s complex.

 

00;06;39;07 – 00;07;02;24

Dr. Mona

Oh, I can see that. And, you know, I definitely had body image issues being on the other spectrum. You know, we talk about body image issues affect all bodies, right? I’m I’m a lean I’m a I was a lean child. I’m a lean grown up. And as a child, getting teased in the locker rooms. And I remember like vividly, another kid was like, no boy is ever going to like you because you have you have no curves.

 

00;07;02;26 – 00;07;19;15

Dr. Mona

And how like, that’s from another girl, like in the locker room. And I remember I was very sassy as a kid and I’m like, just wait until 20 years and we’ll look at our bodies. Then like, I was like, I was I knew that, like, I’m healthy. Like, you know, my I it’s genetics. Like it’s fine. And I was so sassy back.

 

00;07;19;15 – 00;07;39;22

Dr. Mona

Like I was like, whatever. Like it’s not about that, but it’s so it’s so, so rampant, you know, from not only from peers but from, like we said, social media. And I love that you’re talking about how it’s all multifactorial. And, you know, I know your focus is a lot on girls, but do you think this differs from boys or, do they struggle with body image?

 

00;07;39;22 – 00;07;45;03

Dr. Mona

I know we’re talking a lot about girls, but you know, how how can this be different from what boys may feel?

 

00;07;45;06 – 00;08;14;04

Melisa Holmes

Yeah. You know, boys definitely struggle with body image and that’s become more of a problem for boys also because of social media. But it manifests really differently. So girls internalize messages about being smaller, prettier, taking up less space, and boys get messages about being bigger and stronger and more powerful. So, you know, girls are taught to restrict and shrink and boys will manifest that or show that by kind of pursuing bigger muscle mass or taking riskier, having riskier behavior.

 

00;08;14;04 – 00;08;15;29

Melisa Holmes

So just shows up differently.

 

00;08;16;05 – 00;08;33;18

Dr. Mona

Yeah. And I see that in my office. You know, it’s so it’s so interesting. And I know we are talking just about like mainly about girls, but I wanted to throw that in there because I do see body image issues across the board. And when boys are coming in and they’re so worried that they’re so lean, which many boys are, you know, before they hit puberty.

 

00;08;33;18 – 00;08;55;16

Dr. Mona

And maybe they’ll continue to be lean because that’s their their body mass and that’s their genetics. But it’s such a, it’s such an issue that affects both boys and girls. And, you know, we are I already talked about this in the introduction. We’re raising kids in a world of filters. I can’t I’m shocked at to what I is doing, and it’s very scary to me, because of these AI models that are curated.

 

00;08;55;16 – 00;09;19;07

Dr. Mona

I mean, they are fake, but they are. People think they’re real, and I’m it’s scary to me, but I can tell the difference. But a lot of young minds and even adults can’t tell the difference. So how can parents help their kids develop a strong sense of self-worth when they’re constantly surrounded by messages that this is what’s perfect, or this is what’s enough, or you’re not enough?

 

00;09;19;07 – 00;09;28;12

Dr. Mona

Like, how do we protect them when they have access to these images? Whether it’s magazines or social media?

 

00;09;28;15 – 00;09;34;09

Dr. Mona

Now, let’s take a quick break to hear from our sponsors who support helps us keep bringing you this show.

 

00;09;34;12 – 00;09;54;23

Melisa Holmes

Oh yeah. You know, I would never say that we have to eliminate social media for. Yes, because that is not the reality. We can’t compete with social media, but I do think we can help our kids develop skills that help them resist those pressures and the criticisms of the online world. And I mean, some of that is through media literacy, right?

 

00;09;54;23 – 00;10;26;06

Melisa Holmes

What are these kids really seeing look at before and after filtered images? I mean, that’s just a very concrete example you can give them think about what’s really behind social posts, like what are people selling? What are they pushing? Question the accuracy. So media literacy plays a big part. And I know some schools are taking that on. I also think that teaching some kids some self-care skills around helping them first recognize how being on social media makes them feel and then developing some skills to counter that.

 

00;10;26;06 – 00;10;52;16

Melisa Holmes

So and that applies not just to social media, but also like the friends that make them feel like they’re not good enough. So we designed a class for girls on body image, and we go through some of these exercises with them. And one of the things there are several tools, but a couple of my favorite one is we teach them to put on their mental armor before they enter social media, and they know that, you know, they check it out, click it on.

 

00;10;52;23 – 00;11;11;04

Melisa Holmes

And I am entering an artificial world I have on my armor. I know you know. I know that this is not all reality. And there’s some practical things you can teach them to do with that. But another thing that I’ll share that really just comes out of, out of the evidence in a really interesting study, is for girls.

 

00;11;11;04 – 00;11;32;19

Melisa Holmes

There was a study looking at girls who just continue to do their regular social media routine, and then these are all adolescent girls and then girls who were told to add five accounts that made them feel happy or good. And comparing those two groups, the girls who just added five accounts had an improvement in their self-esteem. So that’s a simple thing they can do.

 

00;11;32;22 – 00;12;00;23

Melisa Holmes

So, you know, helping them build some of these self-care skills is important. But I’ll say lastly, I think the absolute most important thing that we can do is to be the adults and to help the kids build an identity that is rooted in their capabilities and their kindness and their character, so that they know who they really are and they are, you know, and it’s not about their appearances or who looks like what or how that, you know, how cute that looks.

 

00;12;00;25 – 00;12;07;19

Melisa Holmes

Helping kids know who they really are, really. Will decrease their vulnerability to comparing themselves to others.

 

00;12;07;21 – 00;12;27;11

Dr. Mona

Oh, I, you know, someone who has this parenting platform that really goes upstream, right? What I mean by that is so many people talk about these teenage issues, but I really like to bring it down to the preschool, toddler years, everything, whether it’s about body image, unhealthy relationship with food, sleep, and this is huge for me. And it’s so easy.

 

00;12;27;11 – 00;12;45;22

Dr. Mona

And we find ourselves doing this with our daughter that it’s so easy to be like, you look so beautiful, your dress is so beautiful. And that’s not to say that you can’t say that like I sometimes as women, right? Like we go to, we go out and I’m like, hey, your dress is really hot. Like I love that, but that’s not the worth, right?

 

00;12;45;22 – 00;13;02;13

Dr. Mona

And so what I do with my daughter, and I think it’s a good example is like, you know, as she gets older, it’s like, does how does that make you feel like, do you feel comfortable. And and sometimes a dress may be itchy. Right. And I’m like, is it itchy? And and she like itchy. Itchy. She’s too and I’m like, do you want me to take it off and change?

 

00;13;02;20 – 00;13;27;28

Dr. Mona

And I listen to her, right? I’m not going to force her into this shitty outfit if it doesn’t feel comfortable. Right. And if she wants to wear leggings and scrape her knees, I want her to do that. Because I wasn’t able to do that. I had to wear the pretty dresses with the leggings, and I hated it. And then I grew up actually wanting to dress up, but on my own accord, not because I was pressured or because society told me that this is what looks good and that’s so valuable.

 

00;13;28;01 – 00;13;46;24

Melisa Holmes

And is one of those restrictions that’s been placed on us as women throughout our lives. Right? Like, you have to dress a certain way and then you can’t run and play. So I remember my mother always asked me when I was trying on clothes, can you squat in it? And I’m like, that’s an interesting question. What can you what can you run?

 

00;13;46;24 – 00;13;58;12

Melisa Holmes

How does it feel exactly? I mean, focusing on things like that. But yes, acknowledging that it is nice to look nice sometimes so we don’t have to ignore appearances, we just have to make them not the priority.

 

00;13;58;17 – 00;14;17;17

Dr. Mona

Yeah. And I think there’s such a great way to do that, which is what we just did examples of. And then the other thing that you mentioned and I’m so happy you did, when you talked about that mental armor and like, you know, how we can allow children to get into the world because even if we create this amazing security place of, like, you’re valuable, obviously there’s going to be peers and social media.

 

00;14;17;24 – 00;14;35;11

Dr. Mona

I love the mental armor thing, and I love how you said, how is this making them feel right? Rather than saying, oh, don’t worry about that, you know, why do you feel that way? Because with any feeling right, we have to validate and justify the feeling in order for them to know how to deal with that feeling. So whether it’s jealousy, right.

 

00;14;35;11 – 00;14;52;02

Dr. Mona

Like whether it’s like they see another girl and they wish they could be that girl. Yeah. What about that girl? Makes you feel this way? Like, what is it? And then having those conversations I think is so important from a parenting lens. And I love that. I love that so much. Because we can’t shut these conversations down. We have to open them up.

 

00;14;52;04 – 00;14;53;17

Dr. Mona

It’s the only way we can help.

 

00;14;53;20 – 00;14;54;07

Melisa Holmes

Exactly.

 

00;14;54;07 – 00;15;23;18

Dr. Mona

So and one of the ways, you know, we talked about social media, we’ve already talked a little bit about parenting, our own words and behaviors around body image matter more than we realize. And I believe it’s actually one of the most important things. You know, the way we talk about how things look on us, what are some common ways that adults unintentionally pass down body shame or insecurity, and what are some simple shifts that we can do as we model body confidence and self-worth?

 

00;15;23;24 – 00;15;42;06

Melisa Holmes

Yeah, I mean, there’s no doubt that mothers are their daughters biggest influencer. We know that from the eating disorder literature, but it’s also just true in general. And when we and I’ll just if I can just give you a little aside, when we started our class for girls on Body Image, the biggest feedback we got from them was I wish my mother could learn this.

 

00;15;42;06 – 00;16;04;16

Melisa Holmes

I wish my mom could learn how to say these things about her body or learn how to do these things. And so, you know, and as a mom myself, I have three daughters and I have caught myself making every mistake there is. But through a lot of the body image work we’ve been doing, I’ve learned that there are really three big areas where I think that we can make a bigger, biggest impact.

 

00;16;04;16 – 00;16;30;04

Melisa Holmes

One is our negative talk about our own bodies right in front of our kids when we say, oh, I look terrible in this, or even I need lipstick or my hair is frizzy. You know, we are our daughters are just internalizing that and thinking that that’s what is important to us. So, you know, to shift that, we just have to do the work to change our own relationship with our body and to get out of our head and learn to connect with our body in a different way.

 

00;16;30;06 – 00;16;48;02

Melisa Holmes

You know, we’re more than just an object to be gazed on or critiqued. Our body should be like the subject, like, this is what we’d go out and live through. So we have to change our whole mindset around our own body. And there’s little bitty steps you can take to to shift that mindset and to shift those behaviors.

 

00;16;48;02 – 00;17;10;29

Melisa Holmes

And like one of those things is to maybe learn to quiet the critic in your head if you’re saying those things. And this just comes from CBT strategy, cognitive behavioral therapy, like you can recognize that negative, voice and you can actually give her a name like, hey, Melissa. Yeah. Why down? I mean, I won’t give her my own name, but yeah, evil Janet.

 

00;17;11;03 – 00;17;32;04

Melisa Holmes

Yeah. I get, you know, you have that control and then you can make some space for some other voices, like the fact checker, like, yeah, your hair is frizzy, but you’re, like, done right? Or that best friend. I mean, that’s all in the self-compassion literature. So just learning to, you know, quiet that negative self-talk and stop using it in front of our daughter.

 

00;17;32;04 – 00;17;58;05

Melisa Holmes

So that’s one big area. And that kind of leads to my second one, which is even our positive comments on clothing and appearances of others, including our own daughters, which you just mentioned. Like when you are in the fitting room, you say, oh, those pants are so flattering. She here’s those pants make you look skinny, right? Or if you see somebody and you say, oh, you’ve lost weight, you look so great.

 

00;17;58;07 – 00;18;19;08

Melisa Holmes

And then my favorite thing to point out to people is look at any photo of someone. Like, if a mom posts a photo of her daughter on social media and look at the comments, they say, oh, she’s gorgeous. Oh, she’s beautiful inside and out. You know, I’m like, let’s improve our vocabulary, right? Like it is not your beautiful say something more meaningful.

 

00;18;19;08 – 00;18;41;06

Melisa Holmes

Say something you look joyful or or wow, you look so strong or wow, what? How much fun you’re having. I mean, make the emphasis on something else. So that’s, you know, the second point and then the third point that I think is hard to do in our culture is to drop the morality around diet and exercise. Yes. Right.

 

00;18;41;08 – 00;19;02;16

Melisa Holmes

So, I mean, we’re so saturated with that. And even in talking with a lot of the teenagers we work with, I hear over and over, my mom always says, shouldn’t you eat something healthier? And they hear, that’s fattening, you’re going to get fat. So we have to be really careful about how we talk about food and exercise around our daughters.

 

00;19;02;19 – 00;19;26;03

Melisa Holmes

We like to talk to girls about fueling their bodies for fun and fierceness. And so, you know, we fuel our bodies to be strong. But also don’t forget that food is a great source of community and pleasure. And we don’t have to apologize for eating ice cream. So and then, you know, as far as exercise goes, it’s all about being strong.

 

00;19;26;08 – 00;19;47;05

Melisa Holmes

Not because I want to get my skinny jeans or I need to lose weight or something like that. So those are my three big areas where I think moms can do. Really, all adults can do so much to just change how we influence our daughters. And I’ll also say like, this sounds hard, but you don’t have to be perfect.

 

00;19;47;05 – 00;20;02;27

Melisa Holmes

And honestly, all your daughter needs is to see you trying to hear you comment like I’m trying to do better because this is important or I’m doing this, I’m going to I’m going out for a walk because it just makes me feel good and it clears my head. You know, start changing the way we talk about it and let her see you try.

 

00;20;02;29 – 00;20;22;20

Dr. Mona

I, I love it. It’s I mean, I love the way you just frame the three because it’s so amazingly, amazingly concise and just well said. And I love the fun and fierceness that fueling our body is for fun and fierceness. Because I mean, when you think even about just use like health aspects, right? I mean, we talk about body image issues tied to food eating disorders.

 

00;20;22;20 – 00;20;40;12

Dr. Mona

They’re all connected, right? And when we put the value, I love that you talked about the morality of food and even just sugar or packaged foods tend to get, you know, put on this very low pedestal. And they are part of our lives. And I love that you mentioned that we are eating for not just nutrition. It can be community.

 

00;20;40;12 – 00;20;57;01

Dr. Mona

It can be pleasure, right? It can be that we enjoy the taste of it, even if it’s not the most nutritious food. But it’s about not having shame around those things. And everybody I like. I grew up with shame around food. I grew up with the bribes and like, you know, oh, you need to eat this and all that, all of that’s connected.

 

00;20;57;01 – 00;21;12;25

Dr. Mona

And I know where we could go on a whole different topic on body image and food. Yeah, this is so key. And, you know, I know how much we matter in our children. And I, I do a lot of work on that on my platform. And I always tell my community, like, make sure you are following the right accounts yourself.

 

00;21;12;25 – 00;21;30;06

Dr. Mona

As mothers, you know, there are a lot of accounts out there that are very curated and very even if they are positive body image, you want to make sure that the accounts you’re following as a mother makes you feel good. Like if we’re going to be telling our girls or sons like, hey, does this make you feel good?

 

00;21;30;06 – 00;21;49;21

Dr. Mona

How are the accounts you’re following? Making you feel as a mother, as a woman, with your body, with the fact that you, you know, as a parent and I’m very big on that and very cognizant about that when I share my own information, you know, because I, I am who I am. But I know that, you know, everyone is viewing this information and has to decide if it’s for them.

 

00;21;49;21 – 00;21;59;05

Dr. Mona

And, quiet that noise. If it’s if it’s making it hard for you to be a better parent and showing up as a more authentic self.

 

00;21;59;07 – 00;22;05;08

Dr. Mona

Now let’s take a quick break to hear from our sponsors who support helps us keep bringing you this show.

 

00;22;05;10 – 00;22;29;03

Melisa Holmes

Oh yeah. Absolutely. I mean, we can edit our own feeds and I’ve personally done it. I mean, yes, yeah, I’ve been in social media and felt horrible about myself. When I learned that that, you know, adding five accounts, I actually did it and my feed changed completely. So, I mean, now I have a lot of golden retrievers showing up on my site, which is really nice.

 

00;22;29;10 – 00;22;30;25

Melisa Holmes

And they could be happy, right?

 

00;22;30;25 – 00;22;49;05

Dr. Mona

Yeah, exactly. And that’s the point. I mean, you want to surround yourself in real life and online with people that uplift you and make you feel joy or make you feel like you’re learning something. I always say, if someone’s not bringing you joy or laughter, if they’re not making you grow as a human, or if they’re not educating you in a non fearful way, they’re probably not your social media besties like you got it.

 

00;22;49;09 – 00;23;15;16

Dr. Mona

You got to let it go right now. Of course, I want to talk about puberty a little bit. You know, one of the things I really admire about girl ology beyond what we just discussed, is how we make puberty conversations less awkward and more empowering for families. So when do you recommend parents start talking about puberty, and how can we do it in a way that normalizes the experiences of shaming it, and maybe even how we can talk to it about boys with boys too, like just in general.

 

00;23;15;16 – 00;23;16;20

Dr. Mona

Children in general?

 

00;23;16;23 – 00;23;37;19

Melisa Holmes

Yeah. I mean, children are so curious and they love learning about their bodies and they love learning about their friends bodies. So this whole, you know, past history of separating boys and girls to learn about puberty is so ridiculous because it’s the only time in their school experience if they get separated by gender, which has all kinds of problems these days.

 

00;23;37;19 – 00;24;02;10

Melisa Holmes

Right? So teaching them all about each other’s bodies is really important. And, you know, we and in reality and we do have a little geology side thing for boys, but we just recommend starting as early as you can. And then you. But that little kids don’t need all the details. So layer it. Every year you have a conversation on the same topic with a little more detail added.

 

00;24;02;10 – 00;24;23;03

Melisa Holmes

So if it’s puberty, you know you can start when you talk about your body is growing. But we’d love to see our toddlers grow. You’re getting so big. You’re doing big, big girl things, you know? And and as you continue to grow up, you’re get your body is going to become a big girl’s body. I mean, we can keep it really sweet and simple and innocent.

 

00;24;23;10 – 00;24;45;05

Melisa Holmes

And then if they get a little older, we add the details. I mean, adults make it awkward because of the shaming taboo, especially around women’s bodies that have been passed down for so many generations. But we need to remember that kids aren’t also aren’t born feeling any shame or embarrassment about their bodies. So we just have to shed our own discomfort, lean into their curiosity.

 

00;24;45;07 – 00;25;09;29

Melisa Holmes

And a couple of things that I always recommend is normalize normal and drop the drama. So normalizing normal is just, you know, use proper names for their body parts. They have an elbow, a nose, a vulva, labia, clitoris, a vagina, a penis. Not only is that helpful as they are growing up, that to give them the language to talk about their body, it’s protective against childhood sexual abuse.

 

00;25;09;29 – 00;25;28;17

Melisa Holmes

I mean, there are important reasons to do that. And then, you know, as they’re growing up, if you’re comfortable with it and you have a period, let them see you change a pad and see, oh, you’re bleeding, but you’re not freaked out and you’re not really. That’s maybe not in a lot of pain. But that’s a normal thing.

 

00;25;28;19 – 00;25;55;02

Melisa Holmes

And then develop mentally, I will say we’ve been teaching puberty classes for. Gosh, I don’t even tell you how many years, but we’ve had second graders take a puberty class, and we have had seventh graders take a puberty class. And I will tell you, the sweet spot for us is the beginning of fourth grade. And so you’ve you’ve given them little tidbits up to that point, but that’s when they’re really ready to hear some of the details.

 

00;25;55;05 – 00;26;21;05

Melisa Holmes

They’ve got enough cognitive ability to understand it. And they’re not. They’re silly and they love the humor. When you talk to them about it, that they’re not, they’re not asking questions that just aren’t even relevant like the second graders do. And if you wait until they’re sixth or seventh grade and they’ve already entered puberty, then they’re already living that and they’re going to be ashamed, or they’re not going to talk about it or are going to tell you they already know everything.

 

00;26;21;05 – 00;26;46;04

Melisa Holmes

So yeah, the goal is to to talk to them about all these things before they experience them. And that that is everything imaginable from puberty to understanding sex to understanding consent. I mean, just hit them before it becomes a real a reality in their life, in relationship, and they’ll look forward to it with kind of excitement like, ooh, I’m getting in on some big girl information.

 

00;26;46;06 – 00;26;51;00

Melisa Holmes

Not oh my gosh, I already know this. I heard it from my friends and I don’t want to talk to you about it.

 

00;26;51;02 – 00;26;54;09

Dr. Mona

I love that. I don’t know if you know that count birds and bees.

 

00;26;54;12 – 00;26;54;14

Melisa Holmes

I.

 

00;26;54;14 – 00;27;10;16

Dr. Mona

Do yeah. Yeah. So they are, you know, two women who actually do a lot of work in churches and you know, where there may be a lot more stigma or not as much talking about this information. And they were on my show too. And they, you know, they describe it similarly as planting the seed right where it’s not going to be elaborate.

 

00;27;10;18 – 00;27;26;10

Dr. Mona

One thing I do with my son now, you know, he’s five and a half at the time of this recording. So around when he was five, because my daughter is, she’s allowed to, but she’s two, so I’m not really doing a lot of seed planting in periods, but when my son, sometimes I’ll be using the bathroom when he’s in the bathroom, like the master, the master bathroom.

 

00;27;26;12 – 00;27;39;20

Dr. Mona

And one day I was having my period and I was like, hey, Ryan, you want to see this? And he saw the blood and he was like, oh, mommy, did you get hurt? And I was like, no, sweetie, it doesn’t hurt me. Like, I didn’t talk about the cramps and stuff like that. I was like, no, honey, it’s for women.

 

00;27;39;24 – 00;27;55;15

Dr. Mona

Once a month it happens and you’re my daughter’s going to have it happen. And, you know, it’s something that will happen. And he’s like, he didn’t even ask the questions to follow up. He just asked if I was okay. And then now every time, every time I say that I’m going to go use the bathroom, he’s like, can I come see your blood?

 

00;27;55;18 – 00;28;11;04

Dr. Mona

And I’m okay? And I laugh, but I also like it’s so funny. And I’m like, no, sweetie, I don’t have my period right now. Like I use the term right. I’m like, I don’t have my period, there’s no blood. And he’s like, oh, okay. But he’s so fascinated by the blood and I actually just remove it. I just like, hang it up.

 

00;28;11;04 – 00;28;31;01

Dr. Mona

And I show him and it’s, it’s me and you can talk about this. And it seems very normal because we are about this. But some people find this so uncomfortable, like my husband, who grew up in a very two boy household, never talked about any of this related to girls in a very a culture that was very taboo about even men buying period supplies.

 

00;28;31;06 – 00;28;31;13

Melisa Holmes

At.

 

00;28;31;13 – 00;28;48;07

Dr. Mona

Stores. Right. And he’s like, is this okay to do? I’m like, absolutely, this is what we should be doing. Like, he is going to grow up whether he is with a woman or man. I don’t know what his you know, what he’s going to do in his future. He’s going to grow up as a very aware human and even for his sister, like compassion.

 

00;28;48;07 – 00;29;08;10

Dr. Mona

He’s going to have, you know, you hear about those little boys who, like, give another girl a jacket. If they if they if they had the period pass through their pants on the bus. And I’m like, what a good what a good raising of a boy to understand that this is something that, you know, they may not experience, but that I do have a sympathy to be able to say, you know what?

 

00;29;08;10 – 00;29;13;01

Dr. Mona

This must feel uncomfortable. Why don’t I give you something to help you out? It’s such a beautiful ways to raise children.

 

00;29;13;08 – 00;29;32;29

Melisa Holmes

Well, yes. And kids understand when they each learn about each other, they recognize that everybody has some weird stuff going on. They can feel a little funky or might feel a little embarrassing sometimes, but then they are so much more compassionate towards each other. So I love that. And I love that you’re doing that with your standards. You will raise a wonderful young man.

 

00;29;32;29 – 00;29;47;03

Dr. Mona

Yeah, it makes me snicker because I’m like, what literally happened yesterday and I’m. And I was like, no, babe, you’re fine. He’s like, I want to come see you. And I’m like, you don’t have to come see today. But it’s the body. And again, that goes back to being body comfortable, right? Like my kids have seen my body.

 

00;29;47;07 – 00;30;02;16

Dr. Mona

They ask me questions about my body. I have five, seven scars on my abdomen from childbirth. They ask me about my scars and like the fact that I have extra fat and skin there and like we’re open about it and I say, you know, this happened because I had babies and I’m so I’m so happy to have you.

 

00;30;02;16 – 00;30;14;14

Dr. Mona

And I love that. And I think, again, having these conversations with our kids, me and you, having these conversations in our community here on our show, listening to this, I think is going to really hopefully give people the confidence to do so. And so.

 

00;30;14;20 – 00;30;16;25

Melisa Holmes

Yeah, normalizing normal I love it.

 

00;30;16;28 – 00;30;33;09

Dr. Mona

Yeah. Now, you know, obviously with the with puberty there’s this emotional side that can just be the as intense as the physical changes. So how can we support girls as they navigate both those emotional and physical developmental changes, especially in those early years when it’s so uncertain and unfamiliar.

 

00;30;33;11 – 00;31;01;11

Melisa Holmes

Yeah. So, you know, from a medical perspective, I think the emotional, emotional and physical sides of puberty are really intertwined, and it helps to understand that it’s not just their body getting a massive makeover, their brain is too. And so I like for parents to understand, yeah, their brain is going through this big renovation, which makes them more self-conscious, that are abstract thinkers seeking independence, and they also are living through a part of their brain.

 

00;31;01;11 – 00;31;28;06

Melisa Holmes

That’s kind of the emotional center. It’s called the amygdala. That all their I mean, looking at functional MRI studies, everything passes through there in adolescence. And it gives this little extra dose of drama. But for girls, I will say that too often we blame all female emotions on hormones. Yeah. And hormones don’t make emotions. They make them bigger, feel bigger and they can make them happen faster, but they don’t cause emotions.

 

00;31;28;06 – 00;31;52;08

Melisa Holmes

So I want to normalize the fact that emotions can’t, our daughters experience emotions because of what they’re experiencing in their life and their inner thoughts and their perceptions and things. So we can help them by, you know, not escalating their emotions like we have to be that calm, safe space for them and give them a place to express them and, you know, help them learn to manage and cope with their emotions.

 

00;31;52;08 – 00;32;18;12

Melisa Holmes

And I know you’ve talked about this a lot on your platform. That is just probably one of the best gifts we can give all kids, instead of trying to fix or bury or distract them from difficult emotions, but letting them experience them in a safe space. So, I think that, you know, understanding that, like, I can’t stand it when I hear somebody say, oh, she must be hormonal, right?

 

00;32;18;16 – 00;32;23;08

Melisa Holmes

It was at that time of the month, like, you want to get me my emotions big and angry.

 

00;32;23;08 – 00;32;23;22

Dr. Mona

Yeah.

 

00;32;23;25 – 00;32;24;28

Melisa Holmes

To say what happens.

 

00;32;25;05 – 00;32;53;09

Dr. Mona

It’s like saying it’s the equivalent of telling someone to calm down. All of a sudden you’re like, no, that’s not going to do anything. No one has ever calmed down by saying that, and no one is ever going to feel justified by saying, oh, it’s that time of the month, right? And I know I thank you so much as obviously as an ObGyn and someone who’s in this, has this amazing platform for really differentiating that, because I think a lot of women have shame around their emotions because they feel like if they express their emotions, that people are going to say that, hey, you’re just hormonal or that it’s, you know, you need to

 

00;32;53;09 – 00;33;09;22

Dr. Mona

get your hormones in check. And I agree that there is a valid and I’m sure you there is a valid change in my mood around my periods. Like that’s not to say, but my emotions have always been there, like you said. And as a man’s emotions are always there. And so I think that’s that’s such a healthy reframe.

 

00;33;09;22 – 00;33;28;13

Dr. Mona

I love that one. Yes. This is so wonderful. And you know, I know we hit the puberty talk. We hit obviously the body image talk. And you know, even today, like as we said, many girls still grow up unsure about their anatomy or believing myths about their periods or cycles. What do you wish every girl knew about her body?

 

00;33;28;13 – 00;33;33;18

Dr. Mona

And how can parents ensure that they’re delivering those accurate, shame free information at home?

 

00;33;33;21 – 00;33;56;18

Melisa Holmes

Yeah, I you know, I have a few wishes for girls and it’s really the whole reason we started girl ology. I want girls to feel comfortable talking about their body and all of its parts. I want them to understand how their reproductive system works from puberty to menopause, because we have a whole generation of menopausal women right now, raising hell because they never nobody ever taught them anything about it.

 

00;33;56;20 – 00;34;21;12

Melisa Holmes

And I want them to recognize when something in their body doesn’t feel right to them or that, you know, they’re they’re worried about something in their body. And I think we often separate like we and I hate to use the word associate, but we associate our thinking from our body. For instance, like, you might be running on a bad knee and you ignore it because you’re busy and then you would develop a bad hip, right?

 

00;34;21;12 – 00;34;36;18

Melisa Holmes

So we have to listen to our body. So I want them to listen to our body, and then I want them to walk into my office and be able to advocate for themselves in the office, with me or with any other provider, and in life in general. Right. I want them to be able to speak up comfortably about their bodies.

 

00;34;36;18 – 00;35;00;05

Melisa Holmes

So there aren’t any specific facts I want to share that I think they need to know, but I do. I do say that this this requires education about anatomy and this will health and reproductive health, mental health, which unfortunately just isn’t happening in schools, and in doctor’s offices. We don’t have time to do all of this. So that is why we created the allergy platform.

 

00;35;00;08 – 00;35;10;13

Melisa Holmes

I mean, if you think about it, the only menstrual health education that kids get is related to hygiene and how pregnancy happens or doesn’t happen. What about what’s normal? What about vaginal discharge?

 

00;35;10;13 – 00;35;28;13

Dr. Mona

What about I’m just going to say the vaginal discharge. I mean I oh my gosh, like that is stuff that I learned later in my life even as going through the medical system. Right. Because even the medical system isn’t really good about teaching about women because there’s not a lot of it’s very patriarchal, as we know. So, but there’s not a lot of women focused education.

 

00;35;28;13 – 00;35;45;29

Dr. Mona

I that is so true. And what you said, Melissa, about the the fact that, you know, we talk about school, you know, doctor’s offices and schools and as a pediatrician, you know, I talk about the perfect trifecta of like, a school system, a parent and a doctor working beautifully together to be able to educate and empower these children.

 

00;35;46;02 – 00;36;03;10

Dr. Mona

But what I find in my office a lot is that a lot of parents rely on school systems to raise their kids, and it’s one of my biggest pet peeves. Like, I get that they’re there all day, like meaning most of the day, right? But you are the one creating the safe space. You’re the one having the conversations about what doesn’t feel right.

 

00;36;03;10 – 00;36;22;04

Dr. Mona

Right? We talked about, hey, something that happened at school or something that they saw on social media. So we are there, safe home. Like we cannot escape the fact that we have to do this. Responsibility and platforms like Realogy, if you’re feeling uncomfortable because you never got that can help the parent do this work at home. And I think that’s so wonderful.

 

00;36;22;06 – 00;36;43;13

Melisa Holmes

And I will just also say schools. The education that kids get vary from state to state. Absolutely. District to district. And so there is no consistency and there’s no and unfortunately, I would love to be able to trust the schools to deliver sex education. Our kids need it. But we do. We all have to. We all have to participate.

 

00;36;43;13 – 00;36;44;17

Melisa Holmes

It takes a village.

 

00;36;44;20 – 00;37;02;23

Dr. Mona

Yeah. Thank you so much. This is such an uplifting conversation. I, I feel like I’ve been doing a lot of these things, but whenever I talk to someone, it just feels like even more exciting to continue this work and to continue to spread these messages on my platforms and the work that you do. Where can people go to stay connected, including like your social media handle?

 

00;37;02;23 – 00;37;05;08

Dr. Mona

Girl, all of the resources you have there.

 

00;37;05;10 – 00;37;31;29

Melisa Holmes

Yeah, we have a girl ology website. It’s girl ology.com. We also have, all of our content in an app, which you can get on Google Play or the Apple Store. Well, it’s just girl ology. And on Instagram we are at girl ology. We, you know, our platform has over 600 doctor created videos. And so we also have a chat bot called Doctor Mom Finance who helps navigate a lot of that content and, you know, is available 24 over seven to answer questions.

 

00;37;31;29 – 00;37;54;04

Melisa Holmes

So all of that is available through our website. I’ll also say that for your listeners will offer a 20% discount, on an annual membership of that so that people can join monthly or annually and, we are building a community of parents who really want to change how we support girls through, you know, these are critical years, and we would just love to have everyone join us.

 

00;37;54;07 – 00;38;10;24

Dr. Mona

I agree, I am so happy that we got in touch. I’m so happy that you were able to come on the show, because these kind of messages need to reach more people. I’m grateful for this platform, to be able, like I said at the beginning, to have guests from all these different aspects of parenting and health.

 

00;38;10;24 – 00;38;30;08

Dr. Mona

Right. I am the only podcast right now in like, the top 20 parenting podcast that does everything. And I think that’s so powerful and, you know, not only just talking about feelings, but talking about bodies and talking about what we can do as parents to change ourselves is so holistic when it comes to raising kids. So thank you for joining me.

 

00;38;30;08 – 00;38;31;19

Dr. Mona

This is such a great conversation.

 

00;38;31;22 – 00;38;39;28

Melisa Holmes

Thank you so much for being the pediatrician that you are, and for creating this platform to help so many people.

 

00;38;40;01 – 00;39;02;04

Dr. Mona

If there’s one thing I hope that you take home from today, it’s that body positivity isn’t just about feeling pretty, it’s about feeling whole. I think about this every day as a mom, raising both a boy and a girl. They’re always watching how I move through the world, how I talk about myself, how I show up in my own body when they hear me say I work out because it helps me feel strong, not because I need to burn off of food I ate.

 

00;39;02;06 – 00;39;27;10

Dr. Mona

That’s the message I want to stick when our kids see us respecting our bodies. And this means drinking water, resting when we need it, working out, they learn to respect theirs. If today’s episode spoke to you, share your favorite takeaway on Instagram and tag at the PedsDocTalk Podcast app, PedsDocTalk and at girl ology gear. LOL og y you never know who in your circle might need to hear it.

 

00;39;27;12 – 00;39;47;06

Dr. Mona

And if this really resonated, please comment in the post that we put up today on the same day the episode aired. And don’t forget, very important, subscribe and download your favorite episodes because it’s the best way to support the show and keep conversations like this going. Thank you for listening, for reflecting, and for doing the small, everyday work that shapes how the next generation sees themselves.

 

00;39;47;08 – 00;39;49;07

Dr. Mona

I’ll see you all next week. Stay well.