The Red Light, Green Light food labeling system has been around to categorize foods as good and bad and was initially created to support weight loss in children with obesity. However, there are many flaws to this system that can backfire when it comes to child health. I welcome Dr. Taylor Arnold, a PhD, registered dietician, and founder of Growing Intuitive Eaters. She is on a mission to foster a healthy relationship with food and teach adults how to talk to kids about food in a positive way.

 

She joins me to discuss:

• Why labeling systems for food is not conducive to creating a healthy relationship with food
• Why “talking less and showing more” can be a helpful strategy to encourage balanced eating
• Phrases to avoid when talking about foods with kids

 

Connect with Dr. Taylor Arnold on Instagram @growing.intuitive.eaters and visit growingintuitiveeaters.com for more resources.

 

Our podcasts are also now on YouTube. If you prefer a video podcast with closed captioning, check us out there and subscribe to PedsDocTalk TV.

 

We love the sponsors that make this show possible! You can always find all the special deals and codes for all our current sponsors on the PedsDocTalk Podcast Sponsors page of the website.

00;00;00;02 – 00;00;17;23
Taylor Arnold
Like, if we want to teach our kids an evidence based way of thinking about food, and we just want to teach them like factual information. Nutrition is not like a two bucket or three bucket system, and what’s good for someone in one moment might not be good for someone in the next moment. And what’s good for you might not be good for me.

00;00;17;26 – 00;00;22;05
Taylor Arnold
And so there’s a lot more nuance than just greenlight read like good bad.

00;00;22;11 – 00;00;45;09
Dr. Mona
Hello, PedsDocTalk podcast listeners. I’m Doctor Mona. Thank you so much for being here. We are over halfway through 2024, and I have some exciting news. Our podcast is now going to debut on our YouTube channel, PedsDocTalk TV, so you can continue listening wherever you access podcasts. But we got some feedback that people wanted an option to watch the conversations.

00;00;45;12 – 00;01;11;13
Dr. Mona
And from an inclusivity standpoint, I wanted to be able to provide an option for people to use closed captioning to watch. So now we’re live there. So subscribe to my YouTube channel and subscribe wherever you access podcasts and keep sharing the show so we can continue to elevate and have these amazing conversations and information for you. So I was recently in New York City for an event with the brand, and can I tell you how exhilarating it was?

00;01;11;13 – 00;01;41;01
Dr. Mona
I love PDT and I love in-person events. I met the lovely Lia Michele from Glee and Broadway, and she’s an expecting mom to her second child, and we chatted about fever, preparedness. And I have a video on my YouTube channel, by the way, if you want that. And just navigating the uncertainty of illness, the one thing I shared with her and the audience at the event is this whenever I get overwhelmed with illness because I do, obviously I see rare things happen to children.

00;01;41;01 – 00;02;04;22
Dr. Mona
I see illness all day, every day. I remember that one. Healing happens. Yes, we can get sick and yes, sometimes it can mean hospitalizations. But by and large, healing happens. We get better and children also are very resilient in their health and get better. The heart is not always going to be hard. Number two, also remember to lean in on letting go of rules.

00;02;04;22 – 00;02;29;25
Dr. Mona
Maybe for your older toddler you have some screen time rules. It’s okay to break these rules to survive through the storm of illness or through difficult times. It’s so important to not be so rigid so that you can have flexibility. You know, I have a episode about the five values that I think are important for every mom, and one of them is having flexibility and understanding when it’s time to pivot and to let go.

00;02;30;00 – 00;02;53;09
Dr. Mona
And lastly, three leaning in on your team. Who is your community that can support you so that you can support your kid during illness or times of uncertainty? Because I know firsthand how hard that can be and we have to rely on others, whether that’s a partner, hired help, family, friends, utilize support so that you can ride the waves of hard and get back to smoother waters.

00;02;53;15 – 00;03;18;21
Dr. Mona
Now let’s get into today’s episode. My guest today is one of my favorite followers on social media, Doctor Taylor Arnold, PhD, registered dietitian and founder of Growing Intuitive Eaters. And she is on a mission to foster a healthy relationship with food and teach adults how to talk to kids about food in a positive way, which is something I also love to do on this platform, and we’re chatting just about that.

00;03;18;27 – 00;03;32;19
Dr. Mona
We dive into why labeling foods as good and bad is not healthy in raising intuitive eaters, namely a popular labeling system called Red light, Green Light. Let’s get into it. Thank you for joining me today, Taylor.

00;03;32;26 – 00;03;37;02
Taylor Arnold
Thanks. It’s a pleasure to be here. This is one of my favorite topics, so I can’t wait to chat about it.

00;03;37;04 – 00;03;53;28
Dr. Mona
Yes, and I’m finally happy that we could connect. I know I’ve wanted you on the show for a very long time and life, and having children and owning a business and just everything got in the way. So, I’m happy that we finally could have, you on the show. So thank you for being here. And obviously, I know who you are.

00;03;53;28 – 00;04;03;06
Dr. Mona
I love your account. But if anyone’s not familiar with who you are, if you can just tell us more about yourself and what brought you to start growing intuitive eaters.

00;04;03;08 – 00;04;35;03
Taylor Arnold
Yeah. So I’m a dietitian, nutrition PhD, and mom of three, and my passion is working with parents to break the cycle of disordered eating that so many of us were raised with to raise kids who are intuitive eaters, who nourish their bodies, parents who to help parents like learn how to talk to their kids about food, and enjoy the like science of nutrition with their kids without any guilt or shame that so much of nutrition information has now on the internet.

00;04;35;06 – 00;04;50;03
Taylor Arnold
And growing intuitive eaters. I have courses for parents which are all 100% free. That’s another. One of my passion is making nutrition information accessible and affordable to all parents. And so one of the ways I did that is made all of my courses and content for free. So you can find that on my YouTube page.

00;04;50;05 – 00;05;15;02
Dr. Mona
Well, I love it. And I have a shared passion for, raising intuitive eaters and also really undoing a lot of this narrative that we have been raised and like you said, and a lot of this narrative that still is prevalent in medical health care systems, you know, okay, so, what we’re talking about today is actually one of those examples, the labeling of unhealthy, unhealthy foods, especially when we communicate with children in our office and how that can be harmful.

00;05;15;05 – 00;05;27;09
Dr. Mona
So for anyone who’s not familiar with what we’re talking about, the either whether it’s red light, green light or just the labeling that we’re talking about, can you explain more about what this is where we commonly see it or you see it as well?

00;05;27;11 – 00;05;47;25
Taylor Arnold
Yeah. So the red light green light diet is a diet that was developed in the 70s. And that the intention of the diet was pediatric weight loss. And so they labeled foods as green light that were very low in calories and foods and, as red light foods that were very high in calories. I was actually just reading a paper about the history of it right before this podcast episode.

00;05;47;25 – 00;05;56;02
Taylor Arnold
And one of the creators of the diet said, you know, we want to leave room in the diet for treats like avocado. And I was like, what?

00;05;56;05 – 00;06;02;02
Dr. Mona
Avocados are trees. Okay. Yeah, I love avocado, by the way. I’m like, I mean, I.

00;06;02;04 – 00;06;30;10
Taylor Arnold
Love the condo, but I wouldn’t consider that. Like, I don’t think many kids would consider that as a treat. But the goal of the diet was to was to make fat kids not fat. Yeah. So, you know, and now, we kind of see the red light, green light thing has taken off in books and just discussing foods that kids should, quote unquote, should eat a lot would be green and, well, should not eat a lot would be red.

00;06;30;17 – 00;06;58;17
Taylor Arnold
And so we really see this like dichotomous view of food and, you know, some parents might label food as good or bad or always foods or sometimes foods. And regardless, that is kind of separating food into 2 to 3 buckets, which we know from the research is not helpful, can be associated with disordered eating behaviors. And I also think it’s inaccurate.

00;06;58;19 – 00;07;16;12
Taylor Arnold
Like if we want to teach our kids an evidence based way of thinking about food, and we just want to teach them like factual information, nutrition is not like a two bucket or three bucket system, and what’s good for someone in one moment might not be good for someone in the next moment. And what’s good for you might not be good for me.

00;07;16;16 – 00;07;33;15
Taylor Arnold
And so there’s a lot more nuance than just green light, red light, good bad. Always food. Sometimes food. Good for your body, good for your soul. However you want to do it. Whatever you want to say, however you want to fluff the words, it’s still like a dichotomous 2 to 3 bucket, two bucket system or three bucket. I don’t know what the word would be.

00;07;33;17 – 00;07;36;09
Taylor Arnold
It’s not dichotomous because three, but.

00;07;36;12 – 00;07;52;14
Dr. Mona
Try caught in this group for today. Let’s create a word. No, but I totally agree. And I mean, I think in school systems too, they still are using this sort of kind of, this sort of dialog in terms of when they, when they do their own nutrition counseling for children in schools. Right?

00;07;52;16 – 00;08;12;13
Taylor Arnold
Yeah. I mean, this starts really early. Like we see kids in preschool coming home with healthy versus unhealthy food worksheets and being told to sort through. And I actually just had a follower sent to one and, all of the healthy foods where it was like cucumber, broccoli and like two different fruits. And then that was in the healthy and in the unhealthy.

00;08;12;13 – 00;08;35;25
Taylor Arnold
It was like hamburgers, French fries, ice cream and another dessert. And I was looking at this like, if I had a child come to me in my private practice who was only eating cucumbers and fruit, I would be way more concerned about them. And a child who was eating a hamburger and French. Right. So it’s just not it’s not an accurate way to teach kids about nutrition.

00;08;35;27 – 00;08;54;27
Taylor Arnold
It’s a scare tactic which we know does not promote behavior change in kids. And it’s it’s just not a I just don’t like this approach. I don’t like this approach. And I think, I think parents are looking for like a really simple way to explain food to their kids. And so they gravitate towards this. Yes. No.

00;08;54;27 – 00;09;00;20
Taylor Arnold
Red light, green light. But I think it actually backfires and creates more problems than it solves.

00;09;00;22 – 00;09;21;06
Dr. Mona
Yeah. And I mean, you talked about obviously that it’s going to create problems from a psychological perspective. What would you see there? Right. I mean, if we’re labeling foods as good, bad, unhealthy, healthy, I mean, I know from my personal experience with with families and also personally myself, if something is if someone tells me, Mona, you can never eat a cupcake, it’s bad, it’s bad, it’s bad.

00;09;21;06 – 00;09;37;07
Dr. Mona
And then when I get to get access to a cupcake, I’m going to go buckwild with that. Right? Because, you know, I mean, so what do you see? Like, as a, you know, in your practice in terms of when we start to create these sort of pedestals and sort of like labels and putting things on higher or lower, you know, value.

00;09;37;10 – 00;09;39;02
Dr. Mona
I’m curious, doesn’t it? Yeah.

00;09;39;05 – 00;09;54;12
Taylor Arnold
Well, I mean, I think it’s very like it’s a simple fact in human psychology, when we make something like elusive or forbidden, it’s now a desired thing, especially in kids. And I actually have a couple articles. I can rattle them off real quick. And I could send them to you for the show notes if you want to call them.

00;09;54;13 – 00;10;27;22
Taylor Arnold
Yeah. But we see, like dichotomous thinking in adults can exacerbate eating disorder symptoms. That’s from a 2011 paper. We see that not thinking about food in a polarized way, which is like the good, bad, healthy, unhealthy that actually protects against disordered eating behavior. That’s from a 2017 paper. In a 2012 paper, we see that participants who are trained in a mindfulness based eating intervention, which is similar to intuitive eating, but not the exact same thing they had less dichotomous thinking.

00;10;27;22 – 00;10;55;08
Taylor Arnold
So people who are like approaching the intuitive eating, mindfulness based approach have less of that dichotomous thinking. And then like overall, if we again, back to the accuracy of this, we want to raise kids who, like, understand their body and understand how to fuel their body. And when we put foods into these black and white buckets, that’s very polarized and inflexible.

00;10;55;14 – 00;11;13;09
Taylor Arnold
What if something changes? Like what if we say Gatorade is a it’s a red food. They should not be drinking Gatorade. And then they join the football team in Arizona and they have a two hour practice in 100 degree heat. Well, yeah, they probably should be drinking a sports drink because we don’t want them passing out. We want to make sure that they’re getting adequate electrolytes.

00;11;13;14 – 00;11;26;20
Taylor Arnold
And so now it’s not a red light food and it’s very confusing. And so if we want to teach our kids like flexible thinking and to understand how to fuel their bodies, I just don’t think this is setting them up for success.

00;11;26;23 – 00;11;42;27
Dr. Mona
Oh, I agree, and I know your whole platform talks about this and you have always, you know, you talk about screw ups, you do some role playing, I love it, I love what you do on your page. And so, you know, a lot of this read like green light book and this philosophy, a lot of it is still used, like you said, in school systems but also in health care.

00;11;42;27 – 00;12;04;00
Dr. Mona
Right. And I yeah, I will say that we should be monitoring our intake of added sugars, processed foods, high cholesterol foods like I mean, obviously it’s okay to eat these things, but we know from a health standpoint that these things in excessive amounts and okay, what is excessive could be up for debate can cause childhood obesity, high cholesterol, things like that.

00;12;04;00 – 00;12;27;14
Dr. Mona
So the balance for me, and I think a lot of when a lot of health care, professionals are listening, is what would be a better way of approaching these conversations to not shame the foods or place certain foods on higher or lower pedestals, but really just talk about food being food and how we can approach it. And like you’ve already mentioned and alluded to in a much healthier way psychologically as well.

00;12;27;16 – 00;12;45;09
Taylor Arnold
Oh, I love this question. I love this question. Okay. So I get parents ask me this all the time too. And I don’t think that talk is the way to modify a child’s diet. Like sitting a child down and having a conversation with them and telling them this food is bad, or this food is good. Or here’s what this food’s in their body, and here’s what this food does.

00;12;45;16 – 00;13;08;00
Taylor Arnold
That’s not going to make them eat something or not eat something. Like, I think that the talk in these conversations can serve to inform your kids about what food does in their body, which is great, especially for curious kids. We should be teaching them about their body in the science of nutrition and age appropriate ways. But if we want our kids to eat more vegetables, it’s not about how we talk to the food or talk to them about food.

00;13;08;05 – 00;13;37;10
Taylor Arnold
It’s about getting them in the kitchen. How can we do low pressure food exposure activities for young kids using play and modeling is huge. How can we, you know, include them in grocery shopping? Can we expose them to media that includes a new types of fruits and vegetables, even like cooking shows for older teens, requiring them to contribute to the meal prep or cooking in the household, just like you would ask them to make the bed or, you know, mow the lawn depending on what the chores are in your house like.

00;13;37;17 – 00;13;59;03
Taylor Arnold
It’s a family contribution. And you know, I know this is easier said than done to because for many families, like having access to these foods is a huge barrier. Having the time to cook, like maybe work, you know, five, 12 hour shifts. And on the weekends your kids have multiple extracurricular activities and they don’t have time to sit down and cook.

00;13;59;05 – 00;14;24;01
Taylor Arnold
It can be as simple as like slicing an apple that is a low pressure exposure activity to a fruit or vegetable at the grocery store, asking your kid to pick out one new thing, or even sitting down on the I go. And we shop at Walmart sitting out on the Walmart website and like, hey, let’s pick out. You get to pick out your fruit for your lunch box this week, and my kids are like typing in the fruit that they want and helping each online shop for our groceries.

00;14;24;03 – 00;14;46;04
Taylor Arnold
But those approaches to food is how we help our kids expand their diet. And it’s not just calling foods good, bad, red light, green light, whatever you like, or not using those terms. So when you say, well, how can we talk to our kids about food to help them limit those things and eat more fruits and vegetables? I don’t think talk does that.

00;14;46;04 – 00;14;49;24
Taylor Arnold
It’s not an effective way to help our kids change their diet.

00;14;49;26 – 00;15;15;04
Dr. Mona
No, I can see that, obviously. And also from a modeling standpoint too, right? Showing, showing, shopping, cooking together, all of that, also us eating a variety of foods and not shaming ourselves when we eat a cupcake or eat some things. Right. I think a lot of parents fall into that trap also of like when they’re eating something like, I had a box of Girl Scout cookies and they put something in those cookies that are just better than any other cookie.

00;15;15;04 – 00;15;29;01
Dr. Mona
I mean, let’s be honest, okay? I hate I ate an entire sleeve of a girl’s like, of the Thin Mints, okay? And I you all need to have guilt with this. And, you know, a lot of this sort of, like, whatever. And I was eating the cookie, and I just turned to my son. He’s like, mommy, I want some.

00;15;29;04 – 00;15;49;24
Dr. Mona
Like, yeah, let’s eat some cookies. And we enjoyed the cookies. I enjoyed myself in front of him or saying, no, no while we ate all these cookies. How bad of mommy, right? It was just like I really wanted cookies that day and it was delicious. And I have no regrets. You have no regrets. But I think a lot of that is about how we also talk about food for ourselves and doing undoing what we were told.

00;15;49;24 – 00;16;08;12
Dr. Mona
Because again, this is a whole conversation, right? That I think a lot of us were raised in this sort of labeling culture. Finish your plate culture, pedestal culture of like, finish your dinner and I’ll go get you ice cream. And so it’s like we’re all trying to undo that. And I’m sure you, you also are teaching people, but doing that yourself as well as a parent.

00;16;08;12 – 00;16;13;24
Dr. Mona
Yeah. Now let’s take a break to hear from our sponsors.

00;16;13;26 – 00;16;32;08
Taylor Arnold
Yeah. I mean, so when I say, you know, talk doesn’t help our kids eat fruits and veggies, I think the way we talk about food is important, but I don’t think we’re going to see like a behavior change in a diet variety changes from like informing our kids about food. That’s that. If only kids were that simple. But yeah, alas, they are not.

00;16;32;11 – 00;17;08;24
Taylor Arnold
But I also think that when we look at, like the roots of this red light, green light diet system in making fat kids less fat like that is, like the fat shame and stigma from that. The way we talk about food is really also harming kids a lot. And so when we when we remove these like types of categories, I also think it’s important to acknowledge the importance of, you know, teaching our kids to fuel themselves independent of their body size.

00;17;08;24 – 00;17;28;07
Taylor Arnold
Like no matter what size the child is, they should they deserve to eat, they deserve to fuel their body and they deserve to be taught how to do that. And we shouldn’t be teaching that kids to fuel their body less than skinny kids. And so I think that’s also, you know, really an important thing to be said here.

00;17;28;10 – 00;17;50;02
Dr. Mona
Oh, I was on a podcast the other day and I talked about the whole higher, lower percentile bias, right. That even in the health care system, a clinician is more likely to talk to a child on the higher percentile about what they’re eating and how active they are because of their weight, versus that conversation is not happening as much with children on the lower percentile.

00;17;50;06 – 00;18;10;10
Dr. Mona
And I can tell you, for being from being an Indian American woman. And our peers are very a lot of our peers are very similar in body frame, you know, very lean. We carry weight in certain parts of our body. It’s very common for my type of Indian to be very similar, that you could be thin by appearance, you could be lower percentile by appearance, but maybe you’re not exercising.

00;18;10;10 – 00;18;29;08
Dr. Mona
Maybe you’re not eating a very diet. Maybe you are prioritizing one food group and not eating another group. So there is a bias there, like you said, about focusing so much more on the higher end percentile child. And oh well, you need to talk about diet modifications and dieting and all of that. And so I agree with you because I see that and my colleagues do it.

00;18;29;08 – 00;18;41;29
Dr. Mona
And we tend to do it just from a medical standpoint. I’m like, we should really be having nutrition and lifestyle conversations with all of our families. And that’s why I love being on social media, because you get to do that too.

00;18;42;02 – 00;18;50;17
Taylor Arnold
Yes. But I also think, you know, I want to say in defense of pediatricians here, you guys have so much to talk about in such a short amount of time.

00;18;50;24 – 00;18;51;17
Dr. Mona
Yes.

00;18;51;19 – 00;19;10;29
Taylor Arnold
It’s just unfair to expect pediatricians to be able to, like, manage nutrition for all of their patients, plus all the other medical things we have to do, like that’s a systemic problem. It’s an access to pediatric dietitians who are covered by insurance problem. Like, there’s so many things that go into that.

00;19;11;01 – 00;19;28;04
Dr. Mona
Well, well, thank you for coming on a pediatrician hosted podcast and vouching for pediatricians like you were like an ideal guest. I really appreciate that because it’s true. You’re right. In my ideal world, if I had my own practice, I would have like an hour, hour and a half of patients and I would go through all of the things that I know to be true, like you’re saying, but don’t often get the time.

00;19;28;04 – 00;19;51;00
Dr. Mona
So I really, really appreciate that. So no, I, I completely agree with you on all the things that you’re saying, and I love that. And this all obviously lends to that intuitive eater. Right. Like, how does that tie in to this whole platform that you have, like when we stop to label the foods and, create that intuitive eater and maybe even describing what it means to be an intuitive eater for anyone who’s not familiar with that terminology.

00;19;51;03 – 00;20;11;09
Taylor Arnold
Oh my gosh, that’s a great question. And it’s also, this could probably also be a whole own discussion too, because, for a lot of what we understand from intuitive eating is intuitive eating in adults like one listening to what our body needs while also taking into consideration what we need in the future and how we’ll feel in the future.

00;20;11;11 – 00;20;34;14
Taylor Arnold
And considering, like the nutrition in that our body needs as well. So often in intuitive eating with adults, we start. So there’s ten principles of intuitive eating. And usually we start with things like releasing food rules and adjusting like the way we talk about food and like food freedom. But but after that, food freedom also comes. It’s called gentle nutrition.

00;20;34;14 – 00;20;57;05
Taylor Arnold
So like understanding the nutrient needs. We’re like, I don’t love vegetables. Me, I’m saying I do not like vegetables that much. I mean, like I will eat them. And there’s certain ones that I enjoy more than others. But like at the end of the day, I pretty much always choose a cookie over a vegetable. But I know that, like, my body feels good if I eat vegetables and it wouldn’t feel good to eat only cookies.

00;20;57;05 – 00;21;27;23
Taylor Arnold
So I take that into consideration. And that’s part of being an intuitive eater. However, children, it’s a little bit different because one, they don’t have the same executive functioning skills as adults. Like the forethought, the planning, the impulse control. These are all things that develop until mid 20s. And then neurodivergent kids like, takes longer. And, you know, neurodivergent people like I have ADHD, for example, will struggle with some of those things their whole entire life.

00;21;27;25 – 00;21;51;25
Taylor Arnold
And so as parents, that’s it’s our job to put in these loving, respectful and considerate boundaries and implement a practice called responsive feeding to help raise these kids to be intuitive eaters. But with kids, it’s not about just like letting them eat whatever they want, whenever they want. Yeah, because that that’s permissive parenting and that is associated with negative health outcomes and eating behaviors in adulthood as well.

00;21;51;27 – 00;22;11;24
Taylor Arnold
So it’s about how can we, you know, it’s our job as the parent to serve and provide those balanced foods and help our kids enjoy those foods, understanding their sensory needs, understanding their medical needs, understanding their where they are developmentally, and so, yeah, does that answer your question?

00;22;12;00 – 00;22;32;21
Dr. Mona
Absolutely, absolutely. And I love that. And I know, you know, your page not only talks about that, but it also talks about, examples, like I said, of skits and role plays. And I love that. Yeah. And you had mentioned something about, and I love this and I was it would be my last question about how, you know, when you eat vegetables, you feel better, like your body feels better versus if I ate a thing of cookies.

00;22;32;21 – 00;22;54;10
Dr. Mona
I’m not gonna lie. It hurts my stomach. Like it actually doesn’t feel so great. And I also, for me, again, I like to say for me, because another person might be fine for me, I feel the after, like I feel bloated, I don’t feel great. Do you think it’s appropriate to, in your opinion, to talk about children, about how they feel with certain foods, like not as a way of shaming them, but let’s talk about if a kid really loves cookies, right?

00;22;54;16 – 00;23;11;05
Dr. Mona
And you’re talking about is it okay to talk to them about like, well, how does those cookies make you feel? Does it hurt your tummy? Like, you know, how is that? Or do you think that starts to lend to more of this sort of pedestal, red light, green light conversation, or is there some nuance there? I hope that question makes sense to you.

00;23;11;05 – 00;23;29;16
Taylor Arnold
Yeah, yeah. You know, there’s definitely one wants there. First, I think if you’re asking those questions in an attempt to restrict their calories because you’re worried about them getting fat, then we already had biases in there. And so I would say that’s a hard stop. We need to address like your own like mental biases and why you’re asking those questions.

00;23;29;18 – 00;23;44;20
Taylor Arnold
But I think it’s absolutely appropriate to encourage our kids to reflect on how they feel. What it wouldn’t say is, does that hurt your tummy? I would be like, oh, how do you like, how are you feeling after dinner? Like, are you feeling full or are you are you so hungry? You want more? What does that feel like to you?

00;23;44;20 – 00;24;02;27
Taylor Arnold
What’s that feel like in your body? And I would just kind of leave it at that. I recently had a question on my TikTok page about like, oh, I don’t let my kids eat cookies on an empty stomach because it gives me a stomach ache. And so you don’t give them a stomach ache. And I was like, well, hold up, hold the phone because I can eat cookies on an empty stomach and feel fabulous, I love that.

00;24;02;27 – 00;24;04;02
Dr. Mona
Yeah, me too.

00;24;04;04 – 00;24;24;17
Taylor Arnold
So it doesn’t make everybody have a stomach ache. And so we’re putting our own biases on our kids, whereas I believe as long as it’s not a health risk to them, like in the immediate, we should let them experience those own limits themselves. Because if we say you’re going to get a tummy ache when you eat five cookies, yeah, but they never experience that.

00;24;24;24 – 00;24;49;22
Taylor Arnold
They’re not like, that’s it’s hard for them to connect that because that’s like a really abstract connection. So I will use like my daughter has had a stomach ache before after eating sweets. And she said like, oh, I don’t want to eat that now. It makes me feel bad. But we will also have kids who are neurodivergent and struggle with interception, who may never connect those dots and may need, you know, assistance with talking about that a little more or working with an OT, for example.

00;24;49;22 – 00;24;55;28
Taylor Arnold
So there’s there’s limitations to all these things and always, always example or exceptions I guess.

00;24;56;01 – 00;25;12;17
Dr. Mona
Yeah. Well I love it because like you said, I don’t, I don’t I don’t see it as a it’s not a natural consequence with consequence sounds bad, but it’s a natural reaction, if you will. Like you said, like my son does the same thing. He’ll eat something very sugary. And we again, don’t have this sort of pedestal environment in our house.

00;25;12;22 – 00;25;26;23
Dr. Mona
And he himself will be like, you know what, mommy? I’m for? My tummy feels okay now and I don’t, and I and I don’t want to eat more. And I’m like, you’re four and you’re telling me that you understand this isn’t making you feel good. And again, it doesn’t come from a place of restriction. It comes a place of listen to your body.

00;25;26;23 – 00;25;41;11
Dr. Mona
And I think that goes back to intuitive eating, like you mentioned. Oh, I love this conversation. I love you do. Okay. Like, this is such a great again, you’re one of my favorite followers. We’ve been trying to make this show happen forever. What would be your final message for everyone listening today?

00;25;41;13 – 00;26;02;16
Taylor Arnold
My final message would be if you feel like, wow, this is a lot of information, go home. Or actually, you might already be at home. You might be trying to that pay attention to the road. But when you have a minute to just like think, try to think about the words that you use when you talk about food and raw.

00;26;02;16 – 00;26;28;20
Taylor Arnold
Other than using labels that separate food into two categories, including anything that memorializes which would include like bad guilty pleasure, cheat day, any of those things, try to try to stop using those words, and instead I’m gonna give you an an instead here because it’s hard to have no substitutions. Yeah, try to use factual simple and non moralizing terms.

00;26;28;20 – 00;26;54;25
Taylor Arnold
So instead of that ice cream as a treat I might say that ice cream is sweet. And it’s cold. Or the ice cream has sugar in it or end fat in it. And that’s gonna, you know, make us feel full after dinner or, like instead of saying like, ice cream is a sometimes food, I might say sometimes I serve ice cream, sometimes I don’t, sometimes I serve avocado toast, sometimes I don’t.

00;26;54;27 – 00;27;05;03
Taylor Arnold
You know, it’s my job to make sure your body gets everything that it needs. And those are less shiny ways to talk about food. And I think more accurate and age appropriate for young kids.

00;27;05;03 – 00;27;21;23
Dr. Mona
So I agree. And also for adults, by the way, because my husband the other day was really craving these Haribo sour belts. Okay. Like they’re those, you know, sour candies I love those. Yeah. They’re so good, by the way. I haven’t had them in ages. And I was going to the pharmacy to pick up something and I’m like, hey, do you want anything?

00;27;21;23 – 00;27;39;18
Dr. Mona
He’s like, yeah, can you pick me up a treat? And I said, oh, what? And I’m like a and he’s like a treat. I’m like, wait, what do you mean a treat? I’m like, you’re four years old. We’ll be talking about. And I’m like, we don’t use that. We don’t use that word in our house. Like we don’t talk about food as like, hey, there’s a treat because they tend to be associated with sugary items.

00;27;39;18 – 00;27;59;19
Dr. Mona
So I’m like, no, no, no, it’s not a treat. It’s just sour belts. You’re wanting sour belts. Have the damn sour belts enjoy it. Right. And I’m going to have six two okay when it comes back. But I love this conversation by the way, because from a personal level, I agree with this. My husband struggles a lot with this sort of narrative because he was fed this a lot and hasn’t been able to undo it.

00;27;59;19 – 00;28;15;21
Dr. Mona
And so I’m going to make him listen to this episode. I’m going to take it back. Yes, I yes, exactly. But again, thank you so much for joining me today. I hope I can have you on the show again and again and again, because I really love the message that you share with everyone. Where can people go to stay connected?

00;28;15;21 – 00;28;22;15
Dr. Mona
Find about, find all about your resources that you have, including all your free resources that I know you graciously give to the community.

00;28;22;17 – 00;28;43;08
Taylor Arnold
Oh my gosh. Okay, well I’m on Instagram AI growing dot intuitive dot eaters. That’s probably that’s my biggest platform. All of my free courses, which includes raising an intuitive eater, increasing your child’s diet variety, starting solids and evidence based approach, starting solids in infancy, constipation, and transitioning from milk to formula, as well as my current course that’s being released right now.

00;28;43;08 – 00;28;51;16
Taylor Arnold
Feeding kids with ADHD. Those are 100% free, and they’re on my YouTube page. I’m watching my website soon. I don’t think I’ve said that on a podcast yet.

00;28;51;23 – 00;28;52;14
Dr. Mona
I am launching.

00;28;52;14 – 00;29;00;13
Taylor Arnold
My website soon. That’s going to the beta.com. It’s currently super ugly and it’s not going to be anymore because it’s so fancy and exciting.

00;29;00;18 – 00;29;03;04
Dr. Mona
I’m so proud of you. I my I, you.

00;29;03;04 – 00;29;24;13
Taylor Arnold
And so that’s going to have a bunch more resources, blog posts and that’s where I’ll be hosting on my course downloads. My courses often include ebooks and, and, like one page or worksheets like about hydration, for example, all 100% free. So tell your friends, send them my way. I want to reach as many moms as possible because we’re creating a really awesome community here.

00;29;24;13 – 00;29;26;07
Taylor Arnold
I agree to to viewers.

00;29;26;10 – 00;29;51;25
Dr. Mona
Yes, and I am telling all of my listeners all about this, and this episode is being released after her website is done. So I’m going to be linking that, so y’all can have that as well as her resources in the links in the show notes. And thank you again for joining me today. I love connecting with you finally on this show, and I cannot wait to send more people your way that may not know who you are, because you do share a lot of really balanced, compassionate understanding of diversity in the feeding space information.

00;29;51;25 – 00;29;53;07
Dr. Mona
So thank you so much for joining me.

00;29;53;09 – 00;29;54;17
Taylor Arnold
Thank you. It’s been a pleasure.

00;29;54;20 – 00;30;16;24
Dr. Mona
What a great conversation with Taylor I love her I love her resources. And we’ve been trying to get this conversation going for so long. But schedules and mom life and business life always got in the way. So I loved having her on. I loved the information she shared. And if you did, to make sure to share our clips on social media, tag us and leave those reviews.

00;30;16;24 – 00;30;42;12
Dr. Mona
And remember, if you prefer to watch these conversations, you can always subscribe to my YouTube channel and get that information there. And next week I have a really awesome guest, Robin Arzon from peloton. She’s the vice President of fitness programing and a head instructor at peloton. She is a former corporate lawyer who is now left behind that successful law career to embark on new adventures in the health and wellness space.

00;30;42;19 – 00;31;04;25
Dr. Mona
And she is also a mother and joins me next week to talk about how important it is to rely on your village, the people that can help you so that you can be more present and pursue other passions as a mother if you are a mom. So make sure to tune in next week and I cannot wait for you all to hear that conversation.