If you’ve ever felt dismissed, overwhelmed, or unsure about your baby’s feeding challenges, this conversation is a validating, eye-opening listen.

I’m joined by Mallory Roberts, a licensed speech-language pathologist, infant feeding specialist, and craniosacral therapist. We dive into the misunderstood world of infant reflux including what’s really going on beneath the surface, why “they’ll outgrow it” isn’t always the full story, and how a holistic, body-based approach can change everything about how a baby feeds, feels, and thrives. 

She joins me to discuss: 

• Why reflux is often misunderstood and why medication shouldn’t always be the first step

• How feeding position, parental stress, and early body tension play a major role in symptoms

• What craniosacral therapy is, and how gentle, connection-based care can transform feeding struggles

To connect with Mallory Roberts follow her on Instagram ⁠@thefeedingmom.method⁠, check out all her resources at ⁠https://www.thefeedingmom.com/⁠ 

00:00 – Intro

02:06 – What Is Craniosacral Therapy?

03:01 – Meet Mallory Roberts

07:45 – What’s Missing in Traditional Reflux Care

10:08 – Feeding Position Matters

12:14 – A Holistic Reflux Plan

17:47 – Red Flags for Reflux

23:10 – What Happens in a Craniosacral Session

28:00 – The Parent’s Energy Matters

33:13 – Where She Places Her Hands (and Why)

37:11 – How to Find a Therapist (or Learn Yourself)

41:23 – Final Encouragement for Parents

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00;00;00;04 – 00;00;19;08

Mallory Roberts

When it’s overt is pretty in your face, right? Although I will say that sometimes when you’re a happy spitter, right. They get dismissed a lot because they’re not experienced in any pain, but they’re the spit up because if they’re not experiencing pain, most of the time, they call it spit up. If they’re experiencing pain, then they call it reflux.

 

00;00;19;10 – 00;00;42;25

Mallory Roberts

If something is if something is coming out of the mouth, you’re reflux, right? It’s coming from it’s it’s not supposed to be doing that. So your reflux is something. And so a happy spitter can just get dismissed. So if you’re, if baby is spitting up, we have to know why. If they’re doing it all the time, if your baby does it once a day because grandpa decide to throw them in the air after they were done to feed.

 

00;00;42;27 – 00;01;02;02

Mallory Roberts

Probably. Okay. Right. But if it’s if you’re dude seeing it after every feed and throughout their wake windows, or it’s waking them up, right. That’s a red flag to they’re waking up screaming babies should be waking up rested and feeling good, not waking up screaming.

 

00;01;02;04 – 00;01;24;02

Dr. Mona

Hey everyone! Welcome back to the PedsDocTalk podcast. I’m Doctor Mona, your favorite online pediatrician. I hope mom, friend and trusted guide through the ups, downs and what is happening. Moments of parenting. So here’s a little story. When my daughter Vera was born, she had a weak latch. And even though I’m a pediatrician and I BCL c or lactation consultant, I still felt stuck.

 

00;01;24;04 – 00;01;44;03

Dr. Mona

Even my colleague, who’s an IBCLC and has been practicing for 30 years, was confused. I knew something was off, but I didn’t know exactly what to do. That’s what I found. The feeding mom, Mallory Roberts. I bought her course and started doing some of the oral play and tension release exercises she teaches, and it truly helped.

 

00;01;44;06 – 00;02;06;28

Dr. Mona

Virus feeding improved, and more importantly, I felt more confident this was the only course I have ever bought, and I wanted Mallory to come on the show. Sometimes when we talk about things like body tension, cranial psychotherapy, or oral motor exercises, it can sound a little woowoo. But let me tell you, the body holds tension and our babies feel that just like we do, it’s real and understanding.

 

00;02;06;28 – 00;02;33;08

Dr. Mona

It can make a huge difference. So if your baby is struggling with reflux feeding issues, torticollis, or just seems tense, or maybe you’re tense about feeding times, this episode is for you. We’re giving you knowledge and tools to add to your parenting toolbelt, and empowering you to tune into your baby and yourself in a whole new way. And don’t forget, subscribe to the podcast, leave a review and share this episode with a friend who might need it.

 

00;02;33;14 – 00;02;57;03

Dr. Mona

And download, download, download. That’s how the show continues to grow. And if something resonates with you. Tag us on Instagram and our handles are at thePedsDocTalkpodcast and at the Feeding Mom Dot method. We love seeing these insights make their way into your everyday life. Let’s get into it and release some tension.

 

00;02;57;05 – 00;02;59;24

Dr. Mona

Thank you so much for joining me today again, Mallory.

 

00;02;59;25 – 00;03;01;25

Mallory Roberts

Yes, I’m so excited to be here.

 

00;03;01;26 – 00;03;18;15

Dr. Mona

Yes. And I say again, because I had technical difficulties earlier this year, a recording podcast, or maybe it was late last year and I had to re-invite a handful of guests. And that’s always a bummer. When you’re a podcast host, you have to make people take another hour out of their day to record with me. So thanks again for doing that.

 

00;03;18;15 – 00;03;22;00

Dr. Mona

Mallory. This is part, part 2.0 of our conversation.

 

00;03;22;03 – 00;03;23;26

Mallory Roberts

Yes. It’ll be better than it was before.

 

00;03;23;27 – 00;03;37;07

Dr. Mona

Yes. And how are you? So tell us more about yourself. How you became the infant feeding specialist. And, also your, you know, your passion for creating psychotherapy and a little bit about what that is too, if people are not sure about what that is.

 

00;03;37;09 – 00;04;04;20

Mallory Roberts

So I am a licensed speech pathologist. And I have always been sort of dysphagia or swallowing disorders has been my specialty. I actually started in a nursing home. Loved the geriatric population. They are just amazing. And, life happened. Ended up in a pediatric clinic. I never wanted to work with kids. Didn’t even want my own children.

 

00;04;04;22 – 00;04;31;06

Mallory Roberts

And, it changed my life. And so I’m there, and nobody’s treating the swallowing disorders for that population. So I sort of dove in with an occupational therapist. We created a feeding clinic, and and then I had my own children, and and it changes you. It changes how you practice when you have your own children. Yeah.

 

00;04;31;08 – 00;04;58;05

Mallory Roberts

And so I sort of combined the two, and I was finding holes in feeding, not just therapy, but how to feed a baby. And it’s kind of sad because so many people will say, well, you just feed them, and it’s supposed to be natural, right? Supposed to be this thing that you just know how to do. But if you don’t, I think we often forget, you know, we talk about these villages and you’re supposed to have your village.

 

00;04;58;05 – 00;05;22;17

Mallory Roberts

And if you grow up and you don’t see people feeding a baby. How are you supposed to just innately know how to do that. And so like our we don’t live in the same world that they did back then when you could just have these skills because you’ve watched your parents or your grandmother or your aunts do these things, right.

 

00;05;22;19 – 00;05;54;09

Mallory Roberts

And so like, there’s gaps in education for basic feeding. And, you know, as we evolve and, and epigenetics and things change with our systems and, and we realize more than we knew before. We need education and it’s not there. So I kind of combined my speech therapy background with my parenting background, and I became the feeding mom.

 

00;05;54;11 – 00;06;20;18

Mallory Roberts

And so while I have all of this knowledge on dysfunction, right, a lot of my work is, is hub militating. It’s not rehabilitating anything. It’s creating these positive experiences and and getting in the body in the mouth early on so that we can move better from the beginning. And so and then cranial sacral therapy came because it’s it’s amazing.

 

00;06;20;19 – 00;06;23;29

Dr. Mona

It is amazing. Yeah.

 

00;06;24;02 – 00;06;57;13

Mallory Roberts

Because I’m, I’m a therapist. I always focused on the motor and what I can see and what the, you know, there’s a, this dysfunction and here’s the solution to that dysfunction. Right. But these families would go home and I’m like oh they’re doing great. You know, this is the progress we’re seeing. And there was this lack of like carryover, like what is missing from when I feed the baby to when they go home in their natural environment and parents are feeding the baby and, cranial sacral came into the picture.

 

00;06;57;13 – 00;07;17;16

Mallory Roberts

I don’t know, it was like a God thing, right? Like, this is what you need to do. And, it changed my whole career. It changed my whole perspective. Like motherhood, being a wife and how I treat these babies and how I can help these families.

 

00;07;17;19 – 00;07;45;15

Dr. Mona

And I will get into more of what exactly it is when we talk about reflux is we’re gonna talk about reflux, but I am I am an osteopathic physician. We learn about cranial sacral therapy. This is part of our training. We learn about other interventions besides your traditional allopathic medications and things like that. And that is why I really gravitated towards you, because I am a clinician that truly believes in that holistic approach to diagnosing, treating, patients, including our very littlest patients, which sometimes doesn’t happen.

 

00;07;45;22 – 00;08;10;13

Dr. Mona

So, you know, when it comes to reflux, you know, we have causes and ideology. What do you think is missing in the traditional evaluations of reflux? And I’m okay if you discuss traditional medicine in a way that’s not the best. That’s okay. But what do you think is lacking in that evaluation of reflux? Especially when we discuss it for newborns and infants.

 

00;08;10;16 – 00;08;18;16

Dr. Mona

Now, let’s take a quick break to hear from our sponsors who support helps us keep bringing you this show.

 

00;08;18;19 – 00;08;42;22

Mallory Roberts

I think what’s lacking is the multi to multi disciplinary aspect of it. Right. Like point blank, if a if a person is coming in and they’re experiencing reflux maybe medication is indicated. Right. That’s. Yeah. We’re not saying that that’s never a thing because there and we’re going to talk about that. There is a point where that is indicated.

 

00;08;43;00 – 00;09;09;28

Mallory Roberts

But it’s not always and it shouldn’t be the first. Right. Yeah. The feeding assessment like can we get someone watching baby. And surely your pediatrician doesn’t have time to sit with you for an hour and watch baby move and watch them feed and watch your interaction and get down into, how they were born. And, you know, that is where your feeding assessment comes into the picture.

 

00;09;09;29 – 00;09;35;09

Mallory Roberts

Yeah. So it’s not about, you know, hating on pediatricians and saying that they serve no purpose. And yeah, it has nothing to do with that. It’s that we need to work together. And if someone is struggling with reflux, I’m not going to say it could be as easy because reflux can be is so multifactorial. Once you get into like what the causes are.

 

00;09;35;11 – 00;10;04;12

Mallory Roberts

But it could be as easy as changing their feeding position. Right. And if we can get in there week one and make these adjustments for parents and talk to them about routines and schedules instead of, this is how much you should feed them every hour, you know, and if it’s a problem, oh, well, force feed, increase the flow like there’s other things we can be looking at besides that.

 

00;10;04;14 – 00;10;08;21

Mallory Roberts

And I think that’s the if we can get there, we’re set.

 

00;10;08;24 – 00;10;30;00

Dr. Mona

Yeah. And do you think so? I mean, you know, but explain maybe for people who aren’t familiar, how do positional changes have an impact on reflux? You know, maybe talking a little bit about reflux and why that is something that is a go to initial thing that sometimes parents are not taught because like you said, the pediatrician, either doesn’t have the time or isn’t knowledgeable about the different position changes.

 

00;10;30;00 – 00;10;32;25

Dr. Mona

And so why would that be helpful? And as a starting point.

 

00;10;32;28 – 00;10;57;01

Mallory Roberts

Yeah. So a lot of times we’re talking about most of the time feeding position changes happen with bottle feeding. Because when you are breastfeeding you have a lactation consultant. You sort of play around with feeding positions, making baby comfortable. Right. But feeding position for bottles. People immediately go to the cradle feed right. Cradle baby. And you feed them, where.

 

00;10;57;01 – 00;11;23;25

Mallory Roberts

And that really takes away baby’s control of the feed. Okay, so, the bottle is coming down towards their mouth. They are they are not in control of that suck, swallow, breathe pattern. They are having to keep up with what they’re given. Right. Bottle fed babies aren’t given opportunities to pause and break. And that impacts their regulation.

 

00;11;23;25 – 00;11;50;20

Mallory Roberts

Okay. So if from like this, like basic level of why they would be having reflux, if we’re just giving them the bottle and their sucks while sucks while sucks while sucks while and they not they’re not taking those pauses and they can’t regulate. Then we’re immediately looking at, okay, are we over feeding. Because it can. And and a lot of times reflux looks like so much more than it is, right?

 

00;11;50;25 – 00;12;14;05

Mallory Roberts

Like when when they’re reflux thing, it’s probably, you know, five meals. Right. But when it comes out you’re like, oh my God, it was half the bottle. And so if that little bit that they could have paused and regulated their intake a bit and pulled away when they wanted to, it could have been the difference between a reflux event and a non reflux event.

 

00;12;14;08 – 00;12;26;05

Dr. Mona

And you mentioned obviously being able to see the dynamics of feeding as part of, you know, the evaluation. What would be for you in an ideal world, a more holistic approach to diagnosing and treating reflux?

 

00;12;26;08 – 00;12;50;02

Mallory Roberts

I mean, I would want so really pediatrician they come in oh I think my baby, you know, they’re spitting up a lot right. They’re having reflux. They’re in pain. Okay. Here’s a person to go see for a feeding assessment done right. Yeah it’s a feeding assessment. Maybe she sends you back for medication. Right. Maybe that’s in your plan after you discuss or you treat for a while.

 

00;12;50;02 – 00;13;02;12

Mallory Roberts

Right. Because we certainly don’t want babies in pain. Right. That is not a goal for anybody. And that’s what reflux medications do. They can help with pain management of reflux. The reflux event is still going to happen.

 

00;13;02;12 – 00;13;05;19

Dr. Mona

Yes. So that I don’t think people realize that. Yeah. Yeah.

 

00;13;05;21 – 00;13;16;00

Mallory Roberts

Go ahead. And so so yeah that’s it. Right. Get you get your feeding assessment and bring in who you need to bring in as secondary pieces.

 

00;13;16;02 – 00;13;33;18

Dr. Mona

The amount of people that are shocked when I tell them that the goal of the reflux medicine, because I actually do not prescribe a lot of reflux medicine because I do what you do, I take a holistic approach. I you know, I we don’t have a lot of cranial sacral therapists in our area, but I refer to, early Steps, which has a feeding therapist, and they do all this stuff.

 

00;13;33;23 – 00;13;54;20

Dr. Mona

And that is my protocol because I’m like you, that I do believe that we’re going to manage this low intervention first. Yeah. What I mean by that is medication to me is not a bad thing like you mentioned, but it is my last resort in anything I do in pediatrics. Like literally anything you tell me, I’ll be like, we’re going to talk about everything else before we reach for a yes, an iPad.

 

00;13;54;23 – 00;14;19;17

Dr. Mona

But I will say that I have had those situations where the acid reflux is causing them so much discomfort. They’re arching. They’re not. They’re having these, you know, aversions because literally their acid production is so bad. And yes, the, PPIs or the medications we use for reflux can help the acid pain. But like Mallory said, they can still spit up because the reflux medicine is not stopping the spit up per se.

 

00;14;19;17 – 00;14;38;04

Dr. Mona

It’s stopping helping stop the discomfort. And I think this is so important because a lot of clinicians do not talk about that when they prescribe medicines. And then I get them in my office for, hey, I saw another doctor and they started me on this reflux med, but the kid is still spitting up. And I said, well, the kid’s gaining weight.

 

00;14;38;04 – 00;15;04;05

Dr. Mona

The kid had it. How’s the feeding experience going? How are they swallowing all that stuff? How is, you know, the discomfort? They’re like, oh, that’s all better. Like everything’s actually really improved. And I was like, this is wonderful. But again, it’s under standing. What medications do you understanding? Like you said what is the dynamic and and experience with the feeding session, which as, as a mother who had a second child who did not feed well, like I’ve, I’ve been vocal about this.

 

00;15;04;05 – 00;15;29;15

Dr. Mona

Zero was a very difficult feeder breast bottle like like not even just spit up. But she just was very like tongue messy, dribbling a lot of issues. And it got better. And I didn’t need to go to a feeding therapist. But I was so close to making that appointment. And I say that because it shouldn’t have to be this unenjoyable experience, which I think what happens is pediatricians, not all will say, well, it’s kind of what it is.

 

00;15;29;15 – 00;15;37;14

Dr. Mona

It’s just they’ll outgrow it. But then parents are starting to feel stressed with the feeding experience, and that’s not good for anybody, as you and I both know.

 

00;15;37;14 – 00;16;01;04

Mallory Roberts

Yeah. Yeah. And and and that like you made a good point. They’ll grow outgrow it. Right. And I feel so strongly about that because they’re not outgrowing anything. You know they don’t outgrow pain and discomfort and dysfunction. We compensate and we grow into other things. Right. So a baby is a perfect example of that. And whatever the root cause.

 

00;16;01;04 – 00;16;20;06

Mallory Roberts

Right. Your root causes of reflux is, it’s still there. It just manifests in different ways as they get older. And I think that’s really important for parents to hear too, because because as they start to see other problems come up, you know, in my when I first started with pediatrics, we were seeing two and three year olds, right.

 

00;16;20;06 – 00;16;36;25

Mallory Roberts

We weren’t seeing infants yet. And, you know, I would ask, okay, how is how is infant feeding? And they’re like, oh, was fine. And then you they always say that, right? You turn off all the trauma in your life and you’re like, oh, it was great. Even though it was like a complete disaster. Yeah. And so I’m like, oh, okay.

 

00;16;36;25 – 00;16;58;18

Mallory Roberts

So, did they have any reflux or spit up? Oh yeah. It was awful. And then you get down into this rabbit hole of things and you’re like, okay, well, this is when your baby doesn’t just have picky eating, right? It’s not that they can’t eat ground meat right now, it’s that they couldn’t move their motor functions way back in the day to right.

 

00;16;58;18 – 00;17;10;15

Mallory Roberts

And it just builds into different things. Yeah. Okay. So you’re a adult who has sleep apnea. I if you go all the way back, go ask your mama. You probably had reflux and it’s just been building.

 

00;17;10;17 – 00;17;25;03

Dr. Mona

And so for you, when you’re evaluating a family and, and and I love that you also take that approach, right? You’re like, you’re not dismissing meds. You’re not dismissing pediatricians think, yeah. Because I, I love that. And that’s not what I obviously I would never do that as well as a pediatrician, but also for my colleagues in speech and feeding.

 

00;17;25;03 – 00;17;47;02

Dr. Mona

Right. I think that that’s why all of us need to be on the same page of, like, pediatricians respecting our subspecialists like you, and then obviously everyone else respecting us. So for you, when you’re evaluating a family, what are some red red flags for you, for reflux? You know, whether it’s something like, hey, y’all need to figure this out or we need to do something more, what would those red flags be?

 

00;17;47;04 – 00;18;05;06

Mallory Roberts

So most of the time. So there’s like two categories, right? They’re either coming to see me because they know they have reflux. Right? It’s obvious it’s there most of the time. You know. And those red flags would be they are physically reflux saying yes, they’re frustrated. They have the clenched hands and it’s just obvious.

 

00;18;05;11 – 00;18;05;22

Dr. Mona

Yeah.

 

00;18;05;22 – 00;18;29;22

Mallory Roberts

The ones that come to me, who will I don’t they’re like, I don’t know what’s going on. They’re just they don’t like to eat. They’re messy eaters. They’re lazy eaters. Right. The ones that are diagnosed of something else besides reflux. When you’re watching them. Yes. The silent reflux events can be, Once you see them, you’re like, oh, wow.

 

00;18;29;24 – 00;18;51;23

Mallory Roberts

So, like, your red flags arching your back is a good one. So if they’re in the middle of a feed or almost on a feed and they start arching their back, right? That is, that’s they’re probably actually experiencing a reflux event in that moment. But after the feed, bubbly, saliva coming out of the mouth, right.

 

00;18;51;23 – 00;19;11;14

Mallory Roberts

Can be, can indicate reflux. If they’re snack and swallow, right? Yeah. A lot of times they’re, they’re like, just randomly laying there and all of a sudden they’ll start smacking and swallowing and I’ll say, do they do that often? Parents are like, oh yeah, they do that all day. They’re reflux. That’s a reflux event.

 

00;19;11;20 – 00;19;41;23

Mallory Roberts

What are they smacking and swallowing. Yeah. You’re not eating. Yeah. Right. And so, those are like the red flags that I watch for, for silent. I think reflux, your red flags, when it’s overt, is pretty in your face, right? Yes. Although I will say that sometimes when you’re a happy spitter. Right. They get dismissed a lot because they’re not experiencing any pain, but they’re the spit up because if they’re not experiencing pain, most of the time, they call it spit up.

 

00;19;41;23 – 00;19;43;25

Mallory Roberts

If they’re experiencing pain, then they call it reflux.

 

00;19;43;25 – 00;19;44;18

Dr. Mona

Yes, I agree with that.

 

00;19;44;18 – 00;20;07;26

Mallory Roberts

Sometimes if something is coming out of the mouth, your reflux thing, right. It’s coming from it’s it’s not supposed to be doing that. So your reflux in something and so a happy spitter can get dismissed. So if you’re, if baby is spitting up, we have to know why. Yeah. If they’re doing it all the time, if your baby does it once a day because grandpa decide to throw them in the air after they were done to feed.

 

00;20;07;29 – 00;20;29;03

Mallory Roberts

Probably. Okay. Right. Yeah. But if it’s if you’re do seeing it after every feed and throughout their wake windows or it’s waking them up. Right. That’s a red flag to they’re waking up screaming yeah. Babies should be waking up rested and feeling good. Not waking up screaming.

 

00;20;29;05 – 00;20;48;27

Dr. Mona

Now let’s take a quick break to hear from our sponsors who support helps us keep bringing you this show. Oh, I love that. I mean, that is exactly what I advise families. And I think another narrative that’s often told is, you know, going along the lines of the happy spitter is that so? A family comes in and is like, you know, my, my baby’s spitting up.

 

00;20;48;27 – 00;21;09;13

Dr. Mona

And then the clinicians will look at two things that, okay, the baby’s gaining weight and that the baby is not bothered by it. And so those two things tend to be like, okay, well then we’ll outgrow it. But I know you also agree that there’s more to that picture as well, right? Because in your opinion, you would want to also focus on functionality and how the baby’s feeding.

 

00;21;09;13 – 00;21;23;19

Dr. Mona

Is there anything else that you would want to add that should be evaluated in those in that situation where a baby is growing fine, but also, and not bothered by it, should we be evaluating anything else in that spit up, situation?

 

00;21;23;21 – 00;21;30;27

Mallory Roberts

Yeah. Like as a first line or like, like as a therapist looking into the whole picture.

 

00;21;30;29 – 00;21;32;01

Dr. Mona

Yeah. Like yeah. Both.

 

00;21;32;01 – 00;21;48;08

Mallory Roberts

Yeah. Yeah. Like as your first line, like if you are the pediatrician and you’re like oh but they’re happy and they’re gaining weight and everything seems to be fine, I would first say, well is everything fine because the parent would have brought it up if it wasn’t fine. Right.

 

00;21;48;09 – 00;21;49;25

Dr. Mona

They wouldn’t have said, yeah. So they wouldn’t.

 

00;21;49;25 – 00;22;04;29

Mallory Roberts

Have said anything at all, right. If it was just normal to them. So if they’re like, I don’t know, they’re spitting up more in a normal and you say, okay, weight’s fine and they’re happy about it. Oh, what else can you look at? How are they sleeping? Yeah, okay. Because that’s a big one because sleep is connected to feet.

 

00;22;05;00 – 00;22;20;19

Mallory Roberts

It’s all connected. Okay. Well, they’re feeding. That mean they’re sleeping great. I mean, I have no problems with sleeping. Okay, well, how are they breathing? Are they breathing with their mouth open? Do you see a lot of drool coming out? Because a newborn shouldn’t be drooling. They’re not teething. Yeah a two month old is not teething.

 

00;22;20;23 – 00;22;46;24

Mallory Roberts

Right. And so excessive drool can be a red flag. And we want to look at those things early because if we can, if we can give simple movement into these muscles and how ability them early and prevent open mouth breathing. Long phase syndrome. Right. Where we’re not getting that good palate widened. That’s your airway. We can be looking at airway too.

 

00;22;47;02 – 00;22;57;08

Mallory Roberts

So it’s not just feeding, it’s feeding. It’s sleep, it’s regulation, it’s airway. We have to have a question regarding each of those areas because that’s what the mouth is in control of.

 

00;22;57;11 – 00;23;10;13

Dr. Mona

Oh, thank you so much. I know that that’s kind of what I was wondering. Is that what you would say? Obviously, as my guess. No, as my listeners, as my listeners? No. I don’t know what my guests are going to say when they’re on the show. And I’m like, are we going to get into that angle of like, the mouth?

 

00;23;10;13 – 00;23;32;20

Dr. Mona

And of course we did. And, you know, that brings me to, you know, cranial sacral therapy again. So I know you obviously talked about that at the beginning, but explaining it in a way, maybe saying like, what exactly is an evaluation and like a sample example of a therapy and why it helps in something like reflux. You know, when we talk about the connection of the body and what exactly that is and why it helps.

 

00;23;32;23 – 00;24;14;22

Mallory Roberts

So cranial sacral therapy is you’re using the lightest touch imaginable, and you are creating, what I like to say is like, you’re creating space within the body to move better. Okay. So, and that might sound like the most woowoo thing you’ve ever heard. But what I tell everyone who looks at me like I’m crazy, I say, okay, if you can imagine closing your eyes and you open a door and the first person you see is your worst enemy, you have, you just wish you’ve never seen them before.

 

00;24;14;22 – 00;24;38;13

Mallory Roberts

You, they are the worst person you could imagine. Like, everyone has that person right there. Yeah, me too. You. They make you feel like garbage. So actually do that, right? Like, close your eyes and imagine that person and feel what your body did. Yeah. Yeah. You, your shoulders come up, your jaw gets tight. Your stomach might turn.

 

00;24;38;13 – 00;25;06;08

Mallory Roberts

Yeah. I mean like you have a physical reaction. And they didn’t even touch you. Yeah. They did nothing to you. But their intention in your body is negative. And so you have a physical response. Right. So then you close your eyes okay. And you open the door and you’re imagining your most favorite person in the world. And what do you immediately do in your body.

 

00;25;06;08 – 00;25;43;07

Mallory Roberts

Right. Your shoulders relax. You take a deep breath. Maybe you smile, you get chills right, and your body opens and releases. Yeah, okay. Again, they didn’t even touch you. They didn’t have to hug you. The person that you don’t like didn’t have to stab you for you to feel those things. Right. And so in cranial sacral, we’re using that rhythm that you have within your body that controls not just emotional because there is emotional pieces to it, but it controls physical reactions to certain things that happen in your life.

 

00;25;43;07 – 00;26;08;17

Mallory Roberts

Okay. And so in a criminal sacral therapy session, like when I’m using it for feeding, I’m using it, I will do my own thing with baby. Right? So I’m touching baby and I am my touch is allowing them to feel space. Where they may not have felt space before. Okay. And you know how is that newborn traumatized.

 

00;26;08;20 – 00;26;10;29

Mallory Roberts

Have you ever been enclosed in a really tight spot.

 

00;26;11;04 – 00;26;12;20

Dr. Mona

Where you can’t be birth.

 

00;26;12;20 – 00;26;39;10

Mallory Roberts

It can push through like the tight place. Like have you ever experienced oh man to possibly say that. Yeah. Dramatic. Right. Right. And so like we need to work within their body and allow movement in spaces where they may have been stuck in order for them to say, oh wow, I can move and feel good in this space, and it does feel safe and I’m okay.

 

00;26;39;10 – 00;26;53;27

Mallory Roberts

Right? Because they stay here for safety, right? If someone’s going to come and attack you, you get into the fetal position. Right. And so but if somebody came up to you and lightly stroked your back, you would open up and release that. Yeah. Yes.

 

00;26;53;29 – 00;27;11;02

Dr. Mona

You’re making me release right now. I mean for people watching this on YouTube, I’m like, I’m getting all loosey goosey here. And I’m like healing and healing it. No, I feel it. It’s like therapy, my friend. I mean, what about this? We talk about feeding is not just feeding. It’s emotional. It it’s emotional. And I know this very well.

 

00;27;11;02 – 00;27;15;04

Dr. Mona

This is all about the by that you bring. It’s true.

 

00;27;15;04 – 00;27;38;04

Mallory Roberts

So when I, when I release baby. Right. And like and I’ll show parents and I’m talking to them and I’m like yeah this is what I’m trying to do. And I will speak to the baby the way I want the parents to speak to the baby. Yes, right. You are safe. You are free to move. Right. Like that’s so important.

 

00;27;38;06 – 00;28;00;05

Mallory Roberts

And so I’m speaking to the baby and baby. Let’s go. And I’m like, did you just do that? Yeah, I get excited, right? Like, I know it’s going to happen, but every time it does, I’m like, they allow like they allowed me into their into their safe space. Okay. So we have that then I’m going to hand the baby to the parent.

 

00;28;00;07 – 00;28;24;27

Mallory Roberts

And that’s when the real work happens. Because then I can see parents shoulders go up and during the feeding, and I can see the jaw tense and the stress of feeding and and all that it brings when there’s a struggle. Yeah, right. It doesn’t matter what the root cause of reflux is. If that dynamic doesn’t improve, love it.

 

00;28;24;27 – 00;28;48;02

Mallory Roberts

It does not matter. Because I can get in the mouth and release oral tension all day long. I can teach parents to do it all day long. But the second they go into a feeding position and they’re staring at baby with the bottle with this, like, stress and anxiety and maybe anger and frustration, right. And sadness about whatever that journey is for them.

 

00;28;48;02 – 00;29;20;14

Mallory Roberts

Yeah, the baby is baby felt that and they’re already back to intaking all that air and being dysregulated and not being able to focus on the feeding aspect of it. So, my first session is talking to parents about letting go. I don’t care if you have to put some headphones on and come out with the music, just to get you to ignore what you’re doing for the first, like ignoring it is better to heal and then you can come back and bond, right?

 

00;29;20;14 – 00;29;29;05

Mallory Roberts

It doesn’t. If we have to heal this relationship, sometimes you need to separate it for a bit and then come back to it.

 

00;29;29;07 – 00;29;50;05

Dr. Mona

I love this because you are literally hitting the true definition of holistic and I. I say this because sometimes people throw that in as a buzzword and as a true holistic provider. As an osteopathic physician, you are connecting the mind, body and spirit. Right? We have to understand, and you said it perfectly, how much of our body language affects everything.

 

00;29;50;07 – 00;30;06;24

Dr. Mona

And I love the example that you mentioned of like your enemy versus your friend and how not even touching you that the energy, the vibe. Like, I am such a believer in vibe like and I my husband doesn’t believe in vibe as much as I do, and he’s starting to understand and I’m like, yeah, no, no. It’s a vibe.

 

00;30;06;24 – 00;30;28;12

Dr. Mona

Like if there’s negative energy around this experience or negative energy around this home, it’s going to impact without even doing anything because of the vibe. And it’s not woowoo like, you know, you mentioned like people may look at you as this being woowoo. Yeah, human. It’s psychology. It’s but it’s energy and energy exist. And children, especially babies exist.

 

00;30;28;12 – 00;30;48;19

Dr. Mona

And the example I give families who who are still listening and thinking that this is woowoo, we talk about like when there’s a contagious effect of babies. So if a baby’s crying and they or a baby’s happy, and all of a sudden they hear someone crying like my son, my daughter starts crying babies in a newborn nursery when they are all in the nursery, if one starts crying, most of them are going to start crying.

 

00;30;48;19 – 00;31;07;12

Dr. Mona

Energy is contagious and I cannot stress this enough not to shame parents, but so that they can be cognizant and aware. Because I think you’re doing the same thing that if you are like this trying like people on my YouTube watching like you’re tense and you’re like, okay, just feed, feed, feed, your baby is not going to relax because you’re not relaxed.

 

00;31;07;12 – 00;31;15;07

Dr. Mona

If it’s like it’s anything we do in parenting, we need to model what if we ever we want for our children. And that’s the only way they have a shot, for sure.

 

00;31;15;12 – 00;31;22;03

Mallory Roberts

And I mean, and and how hard is that when you are experiencing postpartum depression and anxiety.

 

00;31;22;03 – 00;31;26;14

Dr. Mona

Right. Feeding, which is so real. Yeah, it’s a vicious cycle. Vicious cycle.

 

00;31;26;14 – 00;31;44;24

Mallory Roberts

Yeah. It is. And it’s not to say, okay, you’re the only problem because baby has all of these things going on. Right. But healing that connection is the first step. And and I don’t care how you heal it like it don’t like it doesn’t matter to me. Do you need to get it in the tub and feed your baby?

 

00;31;44;24 – 00;32;01;04

Mallory Roberts

Yeah. I’m fine with that. Like it doesn’t matter. Do you need to go for a walk while you feed? Let’s figure out how to do it. That helps you get into your state because you’re the you are the co regulator right. And Co regulation happens both ways in the negative and the positive.

 

00;32;01;06 – 00;32;21;24

Dr. Mona

And to bring back the joy to feeding. And I say this like my daughter again didn’t have reflux but I was so stressed with the amount she fed, which I know as a pediatrician is ludicrous. But I had really bad anxiety after the birth of my daughter that I was obsessed, that she wasn’t drinking more, even though she was happy saving content.

 

00;32;21;24 – 00;32;38;25

Dr. Mona

So I would start pushing the bottle in her mouth, knowing full well that I wasn’t supposed to do that. What happened? She created a feeding aversion only with me. Not with my husband, not with our nanny, only with me. And I had to. Then you said it perfectly. I had to get back into the mantras. You are safe.

 

00;32;39;01 – 00;32;57;08

Dr. Mona

You are fine. You are telling me that you’re done and I believe you. And I’m going to stop this. And I had to retrain myself and just get that through. And it sometimes took me having to have other people help with the feeding sessions, because she was exclusively pumped and bottle fed to get there. And then finally the feeding experience became enjoyable again.

 

00;32;57;08 – 00;33;13;04

Dr. Mona

But we cannot dismiss that. Whether it’s, like you said, real reflux, feeding aversions, all of that, the vibe and how what the mantras that you bring to it, it really matters. And I don’t think people realize the psychology that goes into being a parent because.

 

00;33;13;04 – 00;33;13;20

Mallory Roberts

Yeah, well.

 

00;33;13;25 – 00;33;35;10

Dr. Mona

Majority of it is psychology, right? Like, oh yes, it, so true. Mallory I love it. Oh, man. Okay, so my other question to you is in those sessions, like when you talk about cranial psychotherapy because again people may not know are you. You said it’s very gentle touch to the back, to the neck to the mouth. Describe where you’re kind of going when you’re doing cranial sacral therapy for something like reflux.

 

00;33;35;10 – 00;33;36;23

Dr. Mona

I know it can vary based on the issue.

 

00;33;36;28 – 00;34;06;00

Mallory Roberts

Yeah. All over. Yeah. Right. I’m going to say something that sounds really woo woo and say I go where the body calls me to go. Yeah, right. And so, so, like, normally I say I start with their feet. Okay. And I just sort of sit okay. A lot of times. And they’re spine I’m a big spine worker because that is where you’re right.

 

00;34;06;00 – 00;34;20;12

Mallory Roberts

The brainstem is coming out. Yeah. That’s just it’s just a huge connection point in the body. Your spine right. And like I, I can, I can feel where they’re just being stuck.

 

00;34;20;18 – 00;34;26;18

Dr. Mona

It’s it’s a real thing. It’s not woo. Because as deals we learn this two guys this is real. Like we learn like this.

 

00;34;26;20 – 00;34;32;25

Mallory Roberts

Yeah I can you know and I love working with babies. Like I can work with adults. But gosh adults are so hard.

 

00;34;32;25 – 00;34;38;03

Dr. Mona

And yes, because they’re stuck. There’s a lot of other reasons like mental trauma. Yeah.

 

00;34;38;05 – 00;35;02;21

Mallory Roberts

And it’s just compounded. Yeah. It’s yeah. It doesn’t matter where you go on an adult, you’re going to find some kind of stuff. Yeah. Because because we have these, you know, decades of like holding on to trauma, these traumas and, and and physical tension. Right. But with babies, they, I listen to them. Really. I’m. I put my hands on them.

 

00;35;02;21 – 00;35;24;25

Mallory Roberts

But but they will start to move in a way that shows me what they’re needing. And, and again, I say it sounds kind of silly, but when you’re in the session and I’m, I tell parents, did you just see that? And they’ll move like their shoulder or turn a certain way. So we’re going to go into this space and see what they need to release.

 

00;35;24;28 – 00;35;51;20

Mallory Roberts

And you and I, I am a mover, some cranial sacral therapist lay babies down and just sort of a stay. Right. And they feel within their body, and they travel with their cranial sacral rhythm and, and find that, I think just because of my background, I like to move them. So I do a little manual release too.

 

00;35;51;22 – 00;36;15;29

Mallory Roberts

So I kind of combine the two, but you’ll see me moving the baby. It’s just the it’s the lightest touch. And I say light touch the lightest, because you can’t even imagine how light it is. Yeah, it’s almost like you’re floating on their skin, like you’re not even there. Yeah. And so, yeah, I it’s different for every baby, for reflux specifically though.

 

00;36;15;29 – 00;36;37;28

Mallory Roberts

Like, if I know they’re struggling with reflux, I of course go into their, their diaphragm. Right. Because that’s where your esophagus is coming down into okay. So we’re going to sit there and we’re going to create some movement. And then I’m going into their intestine. Right. Not physically, but in this case. And we’re creating movement in there because that’s where you’re holding so much tension.

 

00;36;37;28 – 00;36;53;10

Dr. Mona

Right. Yeah. No I mean the body remembers. Right? I mean, we talk about trauma. Like I love what you said about the adults because it is true. I that’s why I love children. Yeah. But no, I mean, and I love what you brought up again about, the fact that people are like, well, what what trauma does a baby have?

 

00;36;53;10 – 00;37;11;29

Dr. Mona

And you mentioned beautifully the physical process of being born, right? I mean, obviously, we know that that that is tense. And, you know, babies come out really kind of just like it’s a clenched hands, just tense. And again, we’re just helping them relax into your touch, which I think is so cool. And I guess my last question for you is I love what the work that you do.

 

00;37;11;29 – 00;37;33;17

Dr. Mona

I’ve mentioned this multiple times, and I think I love it because I am a holistic clinician, truly like as a Deo. But my struggle in my where I practice is finding people like you. Mallory. So if someone is interested in a cranial sacral therapist, is there like a place that they can go online to find the database or what’s the best way if they want someone in person to do what you do?

 

00;37;33;20 – 00;37;58;16

Mallory Roberts

Yeah, that’s such a struggle. Yeah. There’s not a lot. Yeah. That’s true. There isn’t. And so, you know, Google is your friend. Google in your area, cranial sacral therapists, mom groups can be really good. So, they may know someone who does some sort of body work. Right. Not limiting your search to cranial sacral therapist, but, cranial facial therapist.

 

00;37;58;17 – 00;38;33;01

Mallory Roberts

So they’re it’s a it’s a little different, but they, they, they move the body as well. Outside of, like, finding someone to actually touch baby, right? I’m a huge proponent of parents having those skills themselves and learning how to help baby and connect. Okay, so, you know, I have parent guides that that teach that. So if you don’t have someone hands on is always going to be better.

 

00;38;33;01 – 00;38;56;03

Mallory Roberts

Right? Nobody’s denying that a one on one visit with the practitioner isn’t the best option, but it’s not always available. And as a parent, you you are there. Like you can be that release person for your baby. Is it going to help the root other root causes, right. If there’s oral dysfunction, well that’s where your feeding assessments come in.

 

00;38;56;05 – 00;39;19;16

Mallory Roberts

And you can call in other services to help with that. That’s where your pediatricians are coming in to help manage if you need that pain management. Right. And so don’t if you’re if you’re in an area and you’re like, there’s absolutely no body workers, right? There’s nobody some occupational therapist, also have movement training like that. Some physical therapists do.

 

00;39;19;22 – 00;39;38;17

Mallory Roberts

So if you’re in an area that has pediatric, clinics, yeah, I would call them specifically and say, do you have someone who works with infant feeding specifically because you can be a feeding therapist and work with two year olds and sensory diets. Correct. Right. And that’s not that’s not what we’re we’re in a whole different field than that.

 

00;39;38;17 – 00;39;56;20

Mallory Roberts

Right. So I’m a speech therapist and I do cranial sacral. You can be an ot a pet. You can just be a, cranial sacral therapist. So sort of expand your search that way, but also feel empowered enough to learn your self. Like you can have that touch for your baby, too.

 

00;39;56;22 – 00;40;16;03

Dr. Mona

And fun fact, I don’t buy a lot of courses online because, again, I am a clinician. And I only buy courses if I want extra education. And guess whose course I bought? No, yes I did. I don’t know if you know that I bought it and I was like, yeah, I bought it and I loved it. So I’m saying that because I really do believe in the work that you do.

 

00;40;16;03 – 00;40;33;03

Dr. Mona

And I think it was wonderful and it actually inspired me to get to learn cranial psychotherapy. You know, I’m always trying to elevate my experience. And I’m a lactation consultant because I really wanted to get better at breastfeeding education. And my husband’s like, is there anything else you’d like to do? Because I he’s always like, you’re always wanting to do something.

 

00;40;33;08 – 00;40;49;25

Dr. Mona

I’m like, you know, I’m a doctor and I would love to get certified in this. And it’s there’s pathways to being a deal because. Yeah, you know. Okay. Yeah. But I did buy your course. And I’m saying that because I do believe it’s a wonderful resource. And even like she said, I know, you know, she’s mentioning that because it’s her resource.

 

00;40;49;25 – 00;41;05;04

Dr. Mona

But I am saying that I also loved your resource. And I do believe that if you’re listening to this and you’re like, I really need this approach to support my child, that it is a wonderful thing and just wanted to let you know that I don’t think you do. Yes. Yeah. No. You did. No, I loved it. You know, the oral work.

 

00;41;05;04 – 00;41;23;03

Dr. Mona

I mean, there was so much about it that I was like, this is great. Like, this is really wonderful. So we’ll we’ll tackle those links at the end. What would be your final uplifting message for everyone listening? This is something that I want my guests to give my listeners. So they go home feeling loved and empowered. So what is your message for everyone today?

 

00;41;23;06 – 00;41;56;29

Mallory Roberts

That you are loved and empowered. Like you can, it doesn’t matter what area of motherhood you’re struggling with. Like it’s just so much all the time. But you, you are loved and and you have so much that you’re already doing that you don’t even recognize. Right. If I could, if I could say one thing, I would say that I think everyone needs to have mantras on their mirror.

 

00;41;57;02 – 00;41;58;24

Dr. Mona

Yeah, yeah.

 

00;41;58;27 – 00;42;19;00

Mallory Roberts

And and I want them to say what you need to hear. And then you look in the mirror and you say them to yourself. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So if you need to feel safe, if you need to feel like you are safe and you are loved and you’re going to post that and you’re going to look at yourself and you’re going to say it.

 

00;42;19;03 – 00;42;47;15

Mallory Roberts

And that can be really, really powerful. Outside of even just the motherhood piece. But if you’re struggling in a specific piece of motherhood, like say it, because you are those things and there is support out there, in if you’re in the most rural of places, like that’s the beauty of social media these days, right. And virtual and connecting with providers because we can do that.

 

00;42;47;15 – 00;43;03;28

Mallory Roberts

And, and that wasn’t always an option before. Yeah. So you’re not alone. And there are support pieces out there for you. And what you’re feeling is valid. I don’t care what you’re feeling. It’s all valid in my opinion.

 

00;43;03;28 – 00;43;25;02

Dr. Mona

Yeah. Well, listen, everyone came for a discussion on cranial psychotherapy and reflux, and they left with a therapy session. I’m always about that. Okay? Like you literally gave them everyone. Like I’m feeling. I’m feeling loved. I’m feeling like, you know, connected. It’s. Yes. Thank you. Mallory, I enjoy talking to you the second time. Tell, Tell everyone where they can go to stay connected with your resources.

 

00;43;25;09 – 00;43;29;21

Dr. Mona

That we alluded to as well. And I’ll be attaching those to my show notes and captions as well.

 

00;43;29;24 – 00;43;43;29

Mallory Roberts

So I post so much on my Instagram at infant Dot dot specialist, and then all my parent guides and, and working with me virtually. And if you’re in Louisiana working with me, 101 is on my website. The feeding mom.com.

 

00;43;44;03 – 00;43;54;18

Dr. Mona

Wonderful. I will be attaching all of that. And thank you once again, Mallory. It’s always a pleasure connecting with you, and I’m sure we’ll connect again either on social or obviously on this podcast. Again, thank.

 

00;43;54;18 – 00;43;59;15

Mallory Roberts

You. Yes, thank you so much for having me.

 

00;43;59;18 – 00;44;24;07

Dr. Mona

Thank you so much for tuning in to this powerful conversation with Mallory. And it’s so important because although we were talking about feeding, the stuff we discussed really applies to so many aspects of parenting. I hope it left you feeling seen, supported, and just a little more confident in your parenting journey. Feeding is never just about feeding. It’s emotional, physical, and relational, and it’s okay to ask for help, seek tools and rethink what support can look like.

 

00;44;24;10 – 00;44;46;20

Dr. Mona

And I’ve been there too. With fear, I struggled deeply. She fed very little, gained weight slowly and hovered around the third percentile. But what made it harder was me. I was anxious, I was overanalyzing, and while my husband and nanny said they had no issues feeding her, it was clear that my energy was impacting the experience. She would withdraw from the bottle.

 

00;44;46;20 – 00;45;08;11

Dr. Mona

She would cry the moment I brought the express pumping bottle to her lips. But that didn’t really happen with my husband or the nanny. And this isn’t about blame, it’s about insight. And once I understood that and changed how I showed up, everything began to shift. If this episode resonated, please subscribe to the podcast, leave a review and share it with someone who needs to hear it.

 

00;45;08;13 – 00;45;32;05

Dr. Mona

Whether that’s a new mom, a fellow clinician, or your favorite mom, group chat. Let’s keep normalizing holistic, compassionate, informed parenting and remember, download your favorite episodes. This is how the show continues to grow. And don’t forget to tag us on Instagram when you share! At the Peds Doc Talk podcast and at the Feeding Mom Dot method, we love seeing these conversations ripple out into your real lives.

 

00;45;32;07 – 00;45;36;26

Dr. Mona

You are not alone. You are doing amazing and I’ll chat with you all next time.