I welcome Penny Merenge, a Nurse Practitioner, a passionate advocate for early childhood education and digital wellness, and founder of @screens_n_kids to discuss how to balance screen-time to protect the mental and physical health of our children.

We discuss:

• The SPOIL method and how it relates to child development
• Why we don’t love the term “screen-time rules”
• Some things to consider when choosing to use screens
• Times to consider limiting screens

 

Find Penny Merenge online at screensnkids.com and on Instagram @screens_n_kids.

00;00;00;02 – 00;00;13;27

Penny Merenge

So how can we merge this digital wellbeing and what are the implications as far as the mental health wellbeing? So I was like how do we go after those early years? Right when their children are young and really preserve the early years?

 

00;00;13;29 – 00;00;40;00

Dr. Mona

Hey everyone. Welcome back to the PedsDocTalk Podcast, a podcast that keeps growing because of you and your reviews. So thank you for tuning in and being here today. Today’s guest is Penny Merenge. She is a nurse practitioner, passionate supporter of the early years of childhood development, and very passionate about digital wellness. She is on Instagram as screens underscore and underscore kids.

 

00;00;40;02 – 00;00;51;21

Dr. Mona

And she’s coming on today to talk all about how to balance the convenience of screens with your child’s health and development. Penny, thank you so much for joining me today.

 

00;00;51;23 – 00;01;00;22

Penny Merenge

Oh, thank you, doctor Mona, I am so delighted to be here. Thank you so much for having me and for providing this platform. I’m happy to be here.

 

00;01;00;24 – 00;01;33;03

Dr. Mona

Well, I love talking about screen time because I think it’s obviously something very useful in our, you know, generation. But I’m very obviously very open about talking about limitations, making sure that we’re creating screen time rules for anyone who hasn’t listened to episode 111. I actually had a eye doctor on where we talk about the importance of balancing screen time with visual health, but me and Penny are talking about why it’s important to balance the convenience of screens with child development, and why we don’t want to overuse the convenience.

 

00;01;33;08 – 00;01;50;08

Dr. Mona

Because I know sometimes we get used to that and we want to do it. And this is a very open conversation from two moms who are trying to navigate this pandemic. And, you know, whenever you’re listening to this, it’s very hard to, you know, navigate all of these things and decisions that we make, but we want to make the best choices to balance development.

 

00;01;50;15 – 00;01;57;06

Dr. Mona

So tell me more about yourself, Penny, and what brought you to be so passionate about digital wellness for families?

 

00;01;57;09 – 00;02;20;10

Penny Merenge

Yeah, absolutely. So just like you said, I am just a mum. Just like right there in the trenches. My daughter is three, my son is five, and we and I’m married to my husband. We currently live in Ontario, Canada. So for me, a lot of it was just trying to come online and kind of trying to see. So I think around 2019 was when I started screens and kids.

 

00;02;20;10 – 00;02;43;26

Penny Merenge

So my son was three at the time, and I kind of noticed I was just like so dependent on screen time. It would be so bad. Like it would be okay. How can you tell me it’s time to have dinner? And he would be just eating, watching? He is, I don’t know, cocomelon whatever it was. And I would have made this huge, beautiful gourmet meal, you know, he would just eat the whole thing without even recognizing what he’s eating.

 

00;02;44;02 – 00;03;05;23

Penny Merenge

So I kind of went online and I started researching and looking like, what’s out there, what’s supporting for parents, like, what are the things that I should be doing or shouldn’t be doing as far as screen time? So in 2019, towards the end, I started the online platform just kind of as a place I would post a picture, a quote, like to encourage parents like how, what can we do differently?

 

00;03;05;25 – 00;03;28;08

Penny Merenge

So that was my personal journey with screens and kids. But professionally, I work by day as a mental health nurse practitioner with adults just navigating their wellbeing journey. And these are clients who are just navigating their mental health struggles. And I’ve done this for almost eight years, and in my work, a lot of what I would hear was, you know, when I was younger, this and this happened.

 

00;03;28;11 – 00;03;56;21

Penny Merenge

So for me, looking at how digital technology now came into the picture, I was like, okay, so how can we merge this digital Wellbeing and what are the implications as far as mental health wellbeing? So I was like, how do we go after those early years right when their children are young and really preserve the early years? So that’s why screens and kids are mission is preserve the early years and preserve is from the Latin word preserver which means keep from harm.

 

00;03;56;23 – 00;04;17;27

Penny Merenge

So I’m just so passionate about those early childhood years. How can we shift the focus, really shift the focus from screens, and shine a light on the other things that are being displaced by screen time? You know, like their play, their time outdoors, those social interactions. So I think for me it was more taking down the guilt that has.

 

00;04;18;02 – 00;04;57;07

Penny Merenge

It’s as a parent you’re like, oh my gosh, I want to be with you. But I have to be on this zoom call. But really, how can we just co-exist with digital technology? So that’s when I went on Instagram in 2019. Really. It was December, right before the pandemic, and then now we are two years in. And so always just researching, finding the data that’s out there and presenting it in a way that a mum or a dad who’s just trying to make dinner and, trying to figure out and go through the data, the science that’s out there in a way that’s palatable and you can relate and give practical tools and how

 

00;04;57;07 – 00;05;07;11

Penny Merenge

to manage digital wellness. So I guess for me, all that to say, you can find me at the intersection of digital technology and mental wellbeing.

 

00;05;07;13 – 00;05;29;29

Dr. Mona

And I love that. I love that you actually work with adults. That is an amazing perspective because I also, in my training working with older children, obviously I don’t work with adults, but I work with kids as old as 21. I see you know how we can go down to the, you know, early years and how important that is for parents to know how they’re teaching principles to their children, the conversations they’re having.

 

00;05;30;05 – 00;05;49;01

Dr. Mona

And this is not only just about screens. And me and you both know that. It’s about how we look at our body image, how we talk about relationships and emotions and so many other things. But, you know, screens have become like we talked about such an important part of our lives. And I do believe that they have a place in our lives, but they definitely need to have some boundaries and limitations.

 

00;05;49;01 – 00;06;06;22

Dr. Mona

So in your, you know, feeling and what you kind of get on your platform and just from what you see, how can we create some common sense rules and what are those things that you mentioned that you want to preserve and maybe even diving into that mental health piece, why you think maybe screens have an impact on the mental health piece as well?

 

00;06;06;25 – 00;06;39;15

Penny Merenge

Yeah, absolutely. And I think for me, I kind of try and use the term screentime rule sparingly because for one, it kind of create those opportunities for guilt and shame because as a parent, you start now counting screentime minutes, right? So and also no two kids are affected the same by screen time. So even twins. Right. So studies have shown one twin will be easily walk away, but the other will be like able to just have a difficult time transitioning to what a place also in one home may not apply necessarily in the other home.

 

00;06;39;15 – 00;07;04;18

Penny Merenge

And for different reasons, all socio economic factors that a single parent. So navigating the weather. So but for me, I think looking at it more so as to what are the things that we could be doing on a day to day basis that can really shift the focus from screen. So I always go back to the oil analogy, and this was developed by, doctor Megan Owens.

 

00;07;04;26 – 00;07;22;02

Penny Merenge

So these are five things. It’s the sport I am. And the first one is social. Number one, you want to invite them into your world. And this could be simple. They could help me dinner. And I know it’s messy. For me, it induces anxiety. Actually, when my daughter is there, she’s trying to bake a cake. I’m like, okay, okay, honey.

 

00;07;22;04 – 00;07;41;29

Penny Merenge

So S is the social. So what are the things that they can contribute to in the home? Take out trash. Kids love to contribute. I think it’s just human nature. They want to feel their role in the family is valued. And as far as when they’re infants, just smiling with them, engaging with them, facial expressions and all of that.

 

00;07;42;01 – 00;08;00;21

Penny Merenge

So that’s the S. And then the P is play. And you had a great guest last year, last episode. And it was wonderful. I just listened to it. So that’s that unstructured play. That’s child led. It’s minimal parent involvement. You know, let them do their work so that we can do our work and then engaging with the outdoors.

 

00;08;00;21 – 00;08;21;00

Penny Merenge

I obviously co-parent with Mother Nature. And if it’s infants, you know, in some of these countries like Sweden, they actually let their little ones nap outside the fresh air. And as they grow older, you know, you want to engage in those mini hikes and then it’s independent downtime. So that’s the I especially when they’re transitioning from no nap.

 

00;08;21;00 – 00;08;52;10

Penny Merenge

So just this past weekend, recently I’ve just been noticing my kids were five and three. The naps are starting to be far in between, especially in the afternoon. So what can we do to fill that time? And it could be just that independently. I think we talked about this at the beginning with you before we started letting them just know how to be on their own, and even giving their brain a chance to rest without constant direction or do this or interruption when they’re just independent, letting them just be as on their own.

 

00;08;52;13 – 00;09;16;09

Penny Merenge

And then the last one is L. So this is still that spoiled this morning. And that’s the literacy. So the value, the reading aloud, reading books, making it fun. Storytelling is also our big one. And it doesn’t need to be fancy. I think just even making up stories I’ve noticed my kids love those made up stories, especially at the dinner table, and I think it sparks that sense of imagination and wonder for them.

 

00;09;16;09 – 00;09;35;04

Penny Merenge

But I think getting into now those okay, what are some common sense things we can do with screen time on a day to day basis? I think just being mindful of the content, of course, one of the watching is it age appropriate? Is it fast paced? You want to really be mindful of how is this show set up.

 

00;09;35;07 – 00;09;56;25

Penny Merenge

You want to be looking at the context. So that’s the why. So is it a five hour trip to school. So notice we had like two summers ago. We bought this like little mini van anytime this little DVD. My husband and I were so excited. Oh we have a DVD. But I would notice the first thing my kids would get in the car and they’re like, okay, mummy, TV, we want to watch.

 

00;09;57;02 – 00;10;21;26

Penny Merenge

Yes. And to transition from that. And really just guys enjoy the rainbow, enjoy the surroundings or context. It’s a five minute drive to school. Maybe we can we’ll be okay. Boredom is okay as opposed to we just took a trip back and it was from Kenya and it was 17 hours. We are not trying to be a screen time police there, so you kind of just want to be mindful of context.

 

00;10;22;08 – 00;10;40;16

Penny Merenge

And then the third one is child know your child. And like I said, no two kids are affected differently by screen time. It’s just has to do with the wiring of how they are. Just like the children are. And then the fourth one is called view. Especially in those early years, you kind of want to ask questions when they are watching.

 

00;10;40;16 – 00;11;01;27

Penny Merenge

Like for my daughter, I noticed she gets I would see her put her hands on her ears so she would be like really terrified by like any show. So I think just being there and I think it’s not practical all the time. So one place you could really go is Common Sense media.org. And if you have doubts, just kind of go and type in the show that you’re like, I want to put them on a show.

 

00;11;01;27 – 00;11;21;21

Penny Merenge

As I get on this zoom call, is it appropriate? And it has great tools for you. So cool viewing is so helpful, and I think it kind of helps them give them language. They ask questions, what would you do if this was yours, your situation. And then the last one is container. So that’s the which device are they watching.

 

00;11;21;23 – 00;11;46;10

Penny Merenge

And usually with this one the farther away the better. So I loved your guest Doctor Wong, and she talked about those that visual show with eyesight. It’s not even that the blue light pacy as she’s talked about, it’s more the distance from the eye. So with container the farther away the better. So like TV is good in that way you reduce those back and forth like oh okay, can I have my phone back?

 

00;11;46;12 – 00;12;05;08

Penny Merenge

No, I want to finish the show. I think TV is good because it empowers them, gives them agency, like, okay, the show is done, let’s switch it off and let’s transition to the outside as opposed to the form. It’s my phone, my iPod, my. So the further away the better, I think. I don’t know if that’s helpful.

 

00;12;05;10 – 00;12;23;12

Dr. Mona

Oh, I have so much. This is amazing. I love everything you’ve been saying, because I think this is such important things that parents need to remember when they create their screen time. I love what you said about not using the word rules and just kind of thinking maybe screen time philosophy if you will. What is your kind of like a parenting philosophy, right?

 

00;12;23;12 – 00;12;41;20

Dr. Mona

I don’t like saying I have these rules. I, I have a general philosophy on what I want to do with screens and what I want to do with my parenting. As Penny mentioned in the episode she’s referring to is episode 111. That was what I mentioned with Doctor Wong about vision and screens episode 118. You talked about independent play and how to foster that.

 

00;12;41;20 – 00;13;04;04

Dr. Mona

So that is such a key thing, because I think what’s happening in our generation is because screens are so convenient. We’re not giving an opportunity for the boredom for the independent play, because it’s such an easy thing. And I don’t know if you see this too with your own child. I think the critical age is between 12 months to 18 months because their attention span is very low.

 

00;13;04;04 – 00;13;21;13

Dr. Mona

So you may think that they’re getting bored. So then you offer the screen and now they’re watching it for like five minutes and your parent brain is thinking, oh my gosh, I’m keeping them occupied. But that is when you actually don’t want to introduce the screen. You actually want to try other things, and then the screens can come, you know, naturally later.

 

00;13;21;16 – 00;13;39;16

Dr. Mona

I introduce screens at 14 months. And it’s because I saw Ryan, you know, showing signs of joint attention. And like you said, perfectly. We used it for coaching. Yeah. We would sit and watch a show together. And that was really beneficial, which I do have an episode about coaching. If you search the podcast, everyone will link it to the show notes.

 

00;13;39;23 – 00;13;59;10

Dr. Mona

But all of those things are so important. And I think in my office too. I think one of the biggest struggles parents have is that they’re like, well, now I’ve introduced this and it’s just like they want to watch it and your strategies that you’re mentioning, the choosing bigger screens like the TV versus the cell phone, can you elaborate more on behaviorally why you think that is good?

 

00;13;59;10 – 00;14;07;19

Dr. Mona

I already talked about it from a visual aspect with Doctor Wong. But why do you think it matters? You mentioned it, and I think it’s such a great point to elaborate on.

 

00;14;07;21 – 00;14;29;06

Penny Merenge

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So behaviorally, I think the biggest thing, you know, we hear a lot about that dopamine. We hear about, oh what’s this dopamine. So I think if you think about it from that perspective. So dopamine is that happy hormone. We feel good when we are out taking a run. When we are watching a show that’s like, oh, that’s exciting.

 

00;14;29;09 – 00;14;52;12

Penny Merenge

So especially for kids in those early years, just the way you’ve said that critical age, 12 to 18 months, those neurons are forming, those important brain connections are forming. So that’s when they watch a good show. They’re having a good time. So now when you kind of say, okay, honey, it’s time to eat dinner, they are thinking, vegetables or let’s go out to walk.

 

00;14;52;12 – 00;15;04;11

Penny Merenge

It’s not as fun or as exciting as the online. Virtual, this show is so exciting. I mean, just think about it. As an adult, when I’m watching, I don’t know, Bridgerton. I love Bridgerton, so I’m enjoying Bridgerton.

 

00;15;04;14 – 00;15;06;14

Dr. Mona

To me too.

 

00;15;06;16 – 00;15;28;11

Penny Merenge

I hate to go and go to work, go to punching you hours. I’m going to do. I’m like, that’s not fun. So you think about a little child. They don’t have those breaks, those internal breaks, that prefrontal cortex, that part of the brain that says, hey, I think we’ve watched enough, we’ve done this. It’s time to stop. So that’s when you get into the, bring back the phone.

 

00;15;28;18 – 00;15;45;19

Penny Merenge

No, I don’t want it to. They’re crying because they don’t have the language yet. Maybe they do, maybe they don’t, but they’re not able to internalize and verbalize and say, okay, I have watched for an hour or two. So then we get into the okay, you’ve had enough. Can I have my phone back? So then we go into the tantrums and the behaviors.

 

00;15;45;22 – 00;16;06;08

Penny Merenge

So I think even having a script with preschool, as in younger ones like, okay, honey, we’re going to watch when this show is done, we’re going outside to play before even we watch or and then at that moment, really the transition I think the transition part is always hard for parents. So always transitioning it into, all right, let’s go outside and play.

 

00;16;06;17 – 00;16;29;10

Penny Merenge

Then tomorrow we’re going to watch this show again. I know it’s easier said than done. Absolutely. But always preparing them. Kids need to know what’s happening next. So absolutely just like you’ve said, those early years, those brain connections are so important. So making the connections. Also, I think one of the things that I really talk about is when you start noticing we are getting into the habit.

 

00;16;29;10 – 00;16;47;00

Penny Merenge

So it’s morning is the first thing we need. We’re switching on the TV. So the brain is getting that those wires like, oh, the thing I need in the morning is my morning show. And again, just being mindful if it’s been a rough night, no one’s having cold. We are tired. I just need a nap on the couch.

 

00;16;47;00 – 00;16;55;22

Penny Merenge

Absolutely fine. I think it’s when we get into those. It’s becoming a daily thing just to be mindful of and just to be kind to yourself.

 

00;16;55;24 – 00;17;20;03

Dr. Mona

Yes, I completely agree. And it’s again that philosophy of what you kind of want to accomplish. And I think you’re just so beautifully saying, exactly what the goal here. I mean, the goal here is to also provide our children with developmental opportunities. You mentioned the children taking naps outside. In the fresh air. I mean, I loved my childhood for the blend of outdoor activity, creative play.

 

00;17;20;03 – 00;17;41;20

Dr. Mona

And if we did watch screens, it was on the television. We didn’t have devices back in the 80s and 90s. And that’s the difference. You know, people often ask, well, we watched tons of screen time. Well, no, we actually only watched screens on a big television. But when we went out to restaurants, there was no screens. When we went out on a road trip, there was no screen.

 

00;17;41;26 – 00;18;10;13

Dr. Mona

You brought that example up of you going on a road trip. You know, I have created the screen time philosophy for our family that many other families may not agree with or have, you know, do for themselves. But one of the biggest ones is for road trips. We don’t use screens and I kind of made that rule for us just because I looked at our childhood and how much we got out of a road trip experience from my dad and mom talking to us and trying to make, you know, we look at the clouds outside and I remember, like from my childhood, having to figure out, like, what does that cloud look like?

 

00;18;10;13 – 00;18;26;21

Dr. Mona

It looks like a bunny, or it looks like a butterfly, or let’s play a road trip green, right? I mean, that’s those kind of things are very important for children and for, you know, but like you said on airplanes, yeah, I’m going to use green for sure on a 17 hour road trip or on a 17 hour plane ride.

 

00;18;26;23 – 00;18;52;14

Dr. Mona

Absolutely. On a five hour plane ride. I use screens, right. Because that’s the philosophy that we decided. But it’s really coming to say, like, and sometimes that means looking back at your childhood and saying, hey, what did work? Or what didn’t work? And what moments really brought you joy? And I think you can probably do the same and say, yeah, I love having those moments with my dad and mom in the car when they probably were tired and probably wanted to just be quiet, but they actually did make up a fun, silly, stupid game.

 

00;18;52;14 – 00;19;11;17

Dr. Mona

But I remember that as an adult, and I remember loving that moment, you know? And so it’s all about just kind of thinking about the goals you have. And that may look so different, like you’re saying, right? Like it may not be the same as another family. The resources are different, but trying to maximize the developmental experiences, I think, is what both of us are getting at.

 

00;19;11;17 – 00;19;12;13

Dr. Mona

And I think you would agree.

 

00;19;12;13 – 00;19;30;19

Penny Merenge

Right? Absolutely, absolutely. And I think you bring a great point. I think just the way you’ve said, a lot of parents are like, you know, I watched tons of TV and I turned out fine, right? That’s true. That’s great. But again, we also have to recognize that it’s not the media is not being made the way it was those days.

 

00;19;30;19 – 00;19;49;12

Penny Merenge

So I think it’s been made in a way that we have to recognize, like, is this being made in a way that’s just grabbing their attention so that in a way that really capitalizing on their kids, toddlers have attention that’s all over the place. So is it just like pulling it in? So I think going back to that content, is it worthy?

 

00;19;49;12 – 00;20;08;09

Penny Merenge

But I think the bigger umbrella term, just as you said, is what’s our philosophy as a family? How do we want to get through the days? How do we want to enjoy life? And I think if we’ve banged out the outdoors, we’ve played we’ve done all this. Absolutely. I think if you enjoy, it will maintain the sanity in the home.

 

00;20;08;09 – 00;20;11;00

Penny Merenge

Absolutely. So sure. Thanks for that.

 

00;20;11;02 – 00;20;28;14

Dr. Mona

Yeah. And I think, you know, when you’re coming up, with your philosophy and your rules, if you want to use the word. But you said that perfectly. Like we’re recording this at a time where we’re going through back to back illnesses, which I’m sure a lot of families have gone through it. I work from home four days a week, and I have a husband who works outside of the home on irregular hours.

 

00;20;28;14 – 00;20;42;22

Dr. Mona

And so sometimes it’s just me and my son, or sometimes it’s my tired husband and my son, and we talk to each other. I’m like, hey, did Ryan have any screen time in the morning? And my husband goes, no. And I’m like, oh, that’s great. Let’s do a little more in the afternoon. Or he had a lot in the morning.

 

00;20;42;22 – 00;21;02;08

Dr. Mona

And we’re like, you know what? Let’s get outside. Now. We have to really you know, I got my work done in the morning while he was watching screens and he did some independent play, and then he wanted me. So let’s now take the break and go outside. But it really is about having those conversations. If you don’t have a partner, it’s just having that conversation with yourself and saying, can I cut back?

 

00;21;02;11 – 00;21;23;23

Dr. Mona

You know, I don’t want Paris to feel again. I don’t think anyone’s going to feel shamed about screens when they listen to this, but really remembering that it’s just about making things better for everybody, but also understanding the resources you have. And so that’s why I’m not ever going to say you must keep it under an hour, or you must do x, Y, and Z because like you said perfectly, it may not work, but it’s saying, how can I be better?

 

00;21;23;25 – 00;21;28;04

Dr. Mona

How can I make this situation better for everyone? And I think that’s fantastic.

 

00;21;28;07 – 00;21;51;04

Penny Merenge

Yeah, absolutely. And I think when I look at the recommendations, you know, from the American Academy and the Canadian Academy of Pediatricians, they’re great recommendations. But absolutely, you have to really know what’s going to maintain the sanity in your home. And I think just that being able to communicate with your partner, your significant other, and even if you’re in a single parent home, really just trying your best.

 

00;21;51;04 – 00;22;00;24

Penny Merenge

And I know it’s easier said than done to be able to know, okay, I think we’ve had quite a long screen time day. How can we go outside and try something else?

 

00;22;00;26 – 00;22;22;24

Dr. Mona

Now this is all great. And I think, you know, parents, hopefully our understanding that balanced perspective that we’re trying to bring here, I’m just curious. And again this may look different for every family. But in your family do you have any screen time non-negotiables? You maybe you don’t like that word because it’s too rigid, but just in general, like things that you try to avoid as much as humanly possible and put it that way.

 

00;22;22;27 – 00;22;43;21

Penny Merenge

Yeah. I think that, for me, right when I started this work, in 2019, I had one of the, points in our, like, toolbox. Like, number one, do not negotiate your non-negotiables. It’s screen time. But, you know, the more work I did, the more research I did, the more I realized, you know, your mental health will get you before any screen time.

 

00;22;43;21 – 00;23;05;28

Penny Merenge

Guilt, right? So you have to choose as a parent which screen time hill you’re willing to die on. But I think for me, the biggest thing is really having places in your home or times in your day where we’re not going to engage with screens. And I think that just being a regular rhythm of the family. So number one, I think the biggest is the family dinner table.

 

00;23;06;01 – 00;23;27;06

Penny Merenge

You know, studies have shown the benefits of family dinner in the early years as far as language development, storytelling. I mean, later in adolescent years, we have linked it to lower levels of depression, anxiety in the later years. And I got this research from the family dinner project that’s out in Boston. So the family dinner is such a great place where we can just connect.

 

00;23;27;06 – 00;23;47;00

Penny Merenge

How was your day? And you can make it fun because as anyone knows, maybe most of the listeners have younger kids, but even adult kids, if you ask a teenager, how was your day? Fine. So you can make it fun. You can play games. So my kids are three and five, so we play this game at the dinner table called the rules bud analogy.

 

00;23;47;00 – 00;24;08;10

Penny Merenge

So we ask, what were your rose’s? What were your easy things of the day, what happened to you in school? And we found that they actually have things to talk about. So they’ll say, oh, my heart was this person pushed me at recess or this or this happened. And what was your easy thing? So they say, oh, I enjoyed when the teacher called my name in preschool or daycare.

 

00;24;08;12 – 00;24;27;05

Penny Merenge

So finding ways to make the family dinner fun. And even as adults, I find me and my husband, we start really reflecting on our day. Oh, that was hard for me. Like I was stuck in traffic for like an hour. So the family dinner is. It’s one of those places where you really want to preserve them. And number two is transition times.

 

00;24;27;08 – 00;24;49;12

Penny Merenge

So that’s like, when we get home from daycare or from preschool or from school or first thing in the morning, especially from preschool, I notice they are very hyper. I think I would say overstimulated, you know, you’ve just been the whole day being told what to do, where to sit, where to move. So you get home. You’re just like, so those are times, transition times.

 

00;24;49;12 – 00;25;10;16

Penny Merenge

I call them where you really just want to calm the tempo, where they could mean putting on a podcast, an audio podcast for kids. They could listen to or just calming music, transition them now back into your home environment. Okay, so now you’re home. You’re safe. You’re home. You’re basically you can do what you need to do to get you through the evening.

 

00;25;10;18 – 00;25;32;05

Penny Merenge

And again, that independent play. But if they’re looking for connection, which they probably are, just being able to provide that connection over those transition times when they come from school is so helpful. So I think for me, my screen time non-negotiables as our home is really those transition times. Family dinner one hour before bedtime and I say one hour before bedtime.

 

00;25;32;05 – 00;25;54;02

Penny Merenge

It’s because because you just want them to kind of also settle down, settling down, get your body, your brain settling down into a like, okay, it’s bedtime. We are not stimulating our nervous system, watching shows that are like so stimulating and first thing in the morning, again, those important neural connections. So that way they’re not like screen seeking first thing in the morning.

 

00;25;54;02 – 00;25;57;10

Penny Merenge

So I think that those are the two that I would say.

 

00;25;57;12 – 00;26;16;14

Dr. Mona

And I think this is so important for adults too, right? I mean, we I talk about this with my husband all the time that we also as a society has adults like, well, the first thing we reach for is our phone. And I am very big on actually, I have a timer where I can’t get into my phone until a certain time, so I have to wake up like I set it for a half an hour after I wake up.

 

00;26;16;14 – 00;26;46;07

Dr. Mona

So meaning that even if I have my phone, all the apps are shut down until seven 3730 is when I can actually get into my any of my apps. So I’m forced because I wasn’t able to. I had to create some control. But everything that you’re talking about is so important. And like we said at the beginning of tying it all in, like as your job, you know, working with adults and obviously mental health, like we’re trying to just create a good relationship with screens as it was with anything else in our lives, because this is something that will be very beneficial for our children and also for ourselves.

 

00;26;46;13 – 00;27;04;07

Dr. Mona

I think we’re all guilty of overusing screens and cell phones and social media and all that stuff because it’s so accessible, and I do believe that it’s having a huge impact on our mental health as adults, not so much the kids and mental health. But you’re describing the developmental aspect. But later in life, I want to help them with their mental health as well.

 

00;27;04;13 – 00;27;07;16

Dr. Mona

And these are the seeds that we’re planting, which I think is so helpful.

 

00;27;07;18 – 00;27;09;23

Penny Merenge

Absolutely, absolutely.

 

00;27;09;26 – 00;27;27;18

Dr. Mona

So I like, you know, this is just such a great conversation. I think maybe we have to have you back on to talk about the mental health. Yes. What’s happening with mental health and digital wellness, because that is a huge area of passion of mine, especially in the parenting world on social media. But I like to end this is just by asking my guests, like a question from a parenting perspective.

 

00;27;27;18 – 00;27;44;03

Dr. Mona

Obviously, you were a parent of two children. Tell me your biggest parenting high and your biggest parenting low. I love hearing this because it really opens us up to your world, and also just teaches people about the ups and downs and how we’re all human. And I love it. So tell me more. You would think that this would be for you.

 

00;27;44;05 – 00;28;06;26

Penny Merenge

Oh my goodness. I think about the laws. There are many laws. But the one that I remember was when my son was in daycare. He was in preschool, I think he was three at the time. So he went to this preschool where you had the ability to, like, tune into the day. You could log to the app and kind of see the class, which thinking later, I’m like, I don’t know how I feel about that.

 

00;28;06;28 – 00;28;24;20

Penny Merenge

But anyway, so halfway through the day, I’m like, oh, let me see what my son is doing. So I zoom in and I see, all the other kids. It was show and tell. So I see my son there sitting with no toy, and then I’m like, oh no, was it today? So I call my husband up. I’m like, honey, did you send him with a toy show?

 

00;28;24;20 – 00;28;45;28

Penny Merenge

Until so he didn’t have a toy, he was just sitting there and I know he was like looking forward to it. I have no idea. Oh, yeah. So we used to send him with his favorite tech boy, little thing boy, little cat boy. So he came home and he was like, oh, my friends were having this show until so me and my husband were just looking at each other like, oh, honey.

 

00;28;45;28 – 00;28;54;21

Penny Merenge

So we kind of had to like, have him do a little presentation for us. But yeah, it was like big epic fail. We forgot we were busy for sure.

 

00;28;54;23 – 00;28;57;28

Dr. Mona

I I’ve been there too.

 

00;28;58;00 – 00;29;18;07

Penny Merenge

Absolutely. And I think for us, my biggest parenting victory was just the other day. So at pick up, one parent was picking up her child and then she sees me picking my daughter and she goes like, oh, your daughter was. So, my son was having a hard time, a drop off. So my daughter walked up to him and gave him a hug and said, you are safe.

 

00;29;18;10 – 00;29;37;22

Penny Merenge

And he just kind of settled in. And I was like, oh, my job is done as a parent. So I think that was a little victory for me because I want my kids to grow up to, to see the heart and reach across the table and not look the other way when someone is hurting. So I was like, that’s a little yippy for me.

 

00;29;37;22 – 00;29;38;28

Penny Merenge

So yeah, oh.

 

00;29;38;29 – 00;29;52;20

Dr. Mona

I that’s so beautiful. I love hearing my guests tell me about this, because it just it really helps, show the families that are listening, that, you know, we’re human. And then also just the beautiful thing that you mentioned, like, the goals that we all, you know, we have as parents, I think it’s so nice to hear.

 

00;29;52;23 – 00;29;58;01

Dr. Mona

Well, can you tell me where people can find you again? And, you know, website, Instagram, things like that.

 

00;29;58;03 – 00;30;20;08

Penny Merenge

Yeah, absolutely. So just like you said at the beginning. So on Instagram screens underscore and underscore kids. So like post updates I have a podcast as well. So I engage the expert. So those people who are knee deep in the work doing the research. And then I bring it into a form that’s easily palatable for just a mom trying to make dinner or a dad.

 

00;30;20;10 – 00;30;29;05

Penny Merenge

So we have a podcast as well by the same name screens and kids on Spotify, Apple, and on Instagram as well. So yeah.

 

00;30;29;14 – 00;30;51;03

Dr. Mona

Thank you. I’ll be linking all of this in my show notes, everyone. And again, Penny, thank you for joining us today. This is so great. As always everyone, please make sure to share this on social media. Tag me and screen underscore and underscore kids. That’s Penny’s account on Instagram. If you love this episode, leave a review and a rating because it does help this podcast grow.

 

00;30;51;03 – 00;30;53;12

Dr. Mona

And Penny, thanks again for joining us today.

 

00;30;53;14 – 00;30;58;29

Penny Merenge

Awesome. Thank you Mona and all the best with your family as you transition with sick time and all of that. Thank you.

 

00;30;59;04 – 00;31;15;24

Dr. Mona

Thank you, thank you for tuning in for this week’s episode. As always, please leave a review. Share this episode with a friend. Share it on your social media. Make sure to follow me at PedsDocTalk on Instagram and subscribe to my YouTube channel. PedsDocTalk TV. We’ll talk to you soon.