We’ve all been there. TANTRUMS. But, there is a way to de-escalate a tantrum and it involves us to be ready to do it. On this episode I welcome Chris Lake, a young childhood development expert and educator and founder of Behavior Booster to discuss:

• The L.A.K.E Method of de-escalating tantrums
• Why you play a huge role in behavior modification
• What not to do during a tantrum

Find out more about Chris Lake and Community for a Cause at communityforacause.org or connect on Instagram @community_for_a_cause.

Read Chris Lake’s Book: Help Your Toddler Meet Their Milestones: 101 Behavior Hacks

00:00:01:01 – 00:00:15:19

Chris Lake

Kids learn best from what happens next. The context isn’t always important, especially if it serves them well. If I go to grandma’s house and every time I go to grandma’s house before I leave, I say, I want cookies. And you say no, no, no. When I do that, I throw a fit and grandma’s like, here’s some cookies, here’s a bunch of cookies.

 

00:00:16:01 – 00:00:25:21

Chris Lake

That child remembers that. They know that. But if you sit and wait and allow them to complete the crying cycle, you have opened the door of their understanding that this isn’t effective.

 

00:00:25:23 – 00:00:55:07

Dr. Mona

Welcome to the PedsDocTalk Podcast, a podcast that continues to grow because of you and your reviews, and a podcast where I get to welcome the most amazing guests to chat about all things parenting, child health, child development, and also parental mental health. Thank you so much for joining us today. Chris Lake, who is a young childhood development expert and educator, founder of Behavior Booster helping parents navigate challenging behavior and build on the desired behavior.

 

00:00:55:10 – 00:01:06:23

Dr. Mona

And we’re talking all about something I think everyone can use. Tips to de-escalating tantrum mode. Thank you so much for joining us today, Chris.

 

00:01:07:01 – 00:01:10:09

Chris Lake

Thank you so much for having me, doctor. Mona. It’s a pleasure to be here.

 

00:01:10:11 – 00:01:29:04

Dr. Mona

I am so excited. And I’ve also mentioned that I love having guests on my podcast, and I love having meals. Okay, because a lot of the parenting space is dominated by white women. And I’m going to be very frank now. Yes it is. I think that’s wonderful that people are experts, but I love that we have diversity in the parenting space because it’s so important.

 

00:01:29:04 – 00:01:45:23

Dr. Mona

I think, you know, obviously fathers are parents too, and I’m so grateful that you could join me that you submitted a request to come on the show and that we get to chat about this very important topic, which is de-escalating a tantrum. So thank you, basically for being a male and coming on the show.

 

00:01:46:01 – 00:02:06:16

Chris Lake

It’s my pleasure. You know, it’s funny too, when I decide to spread my wings and going from being a special educator to parent consulting, and especially from the perspective of being a content creator and doing all the work online and IG, where I’m filling myself and putting myself in this space, I notice as well that it is dominated by a single demographic, and at first I was nervous.

 

00:02:06:16 – 00:02:25:00

Chris Lake

I said to myself, this might not be the proper space for you, might not be received well, you might not be not in any animosity driven way, but just people might raise an eyebrow like, I is just someone who’s really reputable. And I realize, no, Chris, the space needs diversity. The space needs different points of view and different ways of understanding.

 

00:02:25:00 – 00:02:38:11

Chris Lake

And I realized I get to change a narrative. I had a friend say that to me. Like, Chris, you change your narrative. Being a black father and having this knowledge and share this information changes the narrative. So don’t ever be concerned about what people think about you. And I ran with it. Thank you all. I appreciate that.

 

00:02:38:13 – 00:02:59:02

Dr. Mona

Yes, I think that’s such an important thing. And I know that’s not why you’re here, to talk about the right. But but I like to address the importance of that. And again, this is not to say that a certain demographic can’t be parenting expert, but it’s so important that people hear perspective from diverse voices. And I created this podcast for that reason, and it just happened that it hasn’t happened much.

 

00:02:59:03 – 00:03:16:22

Dr. Mona

I’ve had you’re like the fourth male on my podcast, the first black male on my podcast, so or maybe second, but this is like really great for me. So I think it’s so important that I, as a person who’s very passionate about content creation and parenting as well, I like to spread that love and that platform. So happy that you could join me.

 

00:03:17:04 – 00:03:21:22

Dr. Mona

We already talked about that. But tell us more about yourself, why you founded Behavior Booster and what you do.

 

00:03:21:23 – 00:03:45:19

Chris Lake

Certainly. So I first started working with children autism back in 2006 as a teacher’s assistant, and I immediately fell in love. I was actually offered a volunteer position following my first experimental psych class at Queens College, and I almost always worked with kids. This is my first time working directly with children who had diagnoses or special needs of any sort, and I just felt this works.

 

00:03:45:19 – 00:03:58:03

Chris Lake

So well for me. And the kids connect with me and I ran with it. Fast forward to about 16 years later. I have my daughter during the pandemic, which is the most fun time a new parent can have a child.

 

00:03:58:03 – 00:03:58:17

Dr. Mona

Oh yes.

 

00:03:58:23 – 00:04:24:11

Chris Lake

Yes. So many questions to answer is so many panics to suppress. And it happens. So one random day in December, my four month old child was sitting across from her grandfather at the table and the simplest of things happened. That for me, was mind blowing. He simply looked at her and smiled, and he tapped the table and she looked back at him and she, in response, tapped the table.

 

00:04:24:13 – 00:04:47:13

Chris Lake

Now, for most people, that’s just a cute little moment. But for me. I pause and said, this is literally a program that I write for my students with autism to help them develop their imitation skills. Because if people aren’t aware that the skill is often a little bit delayed for kids who are on the autism spectrum, and literally I’m working with two and a half year old kids, I’m working to reinforce and train them to literally imitate tapping a table.

 

00:04:47:13 – 00:05:07:05

Chris Lake

That specific task. And my four month old did it. And so my brain said, okay, what I do for a job can be applied to just general parenting. I haven’t really thought about how much value is in the knowledge and have accrued in the last two decades. And as she got older, she had ten months. And I thought to myself, one day, I wonder if I can teach you how to point today.

 

00:05:07:07 – 00:05:25:02

Chris Lake

And I use the same skill sets for my discipline. Apply behavior analysis to teach you how to point. And she got it. And I was tickled pink. And I said, okay, but Chris, this could just be a one off. You need a bigger sample size. Just your daughter. Right, right. So luckily I had four friends who all had kids within literally the same month as my daughter.

 

00:05:25:02 – 00:05:43:19

Chris Lake

And so I reached out to all four of them. I said, hey, is your kid pointing yet? They all said no. I said, okay, great. Do me a favor, try doing this for the next 2 to 3 days and let me know if they start pointing. I called them back 48 hours later and three out of four of them said, yo, my kid’s pointing out like that was like magic.

 

00:05:43:21 – 00:06:06:12

Chris Lake

And I knew I was on to something. Unfortunately, the one whose child didn’t point. Turns out we’d find out about six months later. She has level three autism. So there was a reason why that invitation wasn’t there. But again, my goal was when I realized I said, okay, I think I can make parenting easier. I know there’s no guide or manual for parenting, but in my brain I think, well, maybe we can kind of bridge the gap a little bit and, you know, maybe we can try.

 

00:06:06:15 – 00:06:30:04

Chris Lake

That’s my like life motto. Can we try? Maybe we can try. And my specific discipline is using the specific phrases and using specific physical prompts to boost the kids behavior, to increase their ability to hit milestones, or to redirect behavior that they’re not supposed to be doing. Challenging behavior. And I realized that. And I’ve told staff, remember, like when they first started, ask any new staff in my building, I say, why are you here?

 

00:06:30:09 – 00:06:45:12

Chris Lake

What made you sign up to work with kids with the most challenging behavior you can face? And they have a variety of answers, but I always make sure they know you are going to face the most challenge because some of these kids will hit you, spit at you, kick you, pull your hair, scratch you, bite you, throw toys, etc. like you need to be prepared for that.

 

00:06:45:12 – 00:07:02:01

Chris Lake

You need to understand what you signing up for is not just working with kids. This isn’t just Play-Doh time. This is serious work. And so, you know, I see the look on her face and I can assess like we last or how long are you going to last and most and stick through it and likewise encouragement. But again, after I have my daughter realized I’m not just working with kids with autism and challenging behavior.

 

00:07:02:01 – 00:07:23:11

Chris Lake

I work with behavior and everyone has different levels of behavior. And all parents deal with different behavior, especially tantrums. And once I realize that every single day I’m diffusing tantrums and every single day I’m de-escalating tantrums. And I said, Chris, you don’t need to just do this for your job. You can write a book and you can give people the steps and you can expand it.

 

00:07:23:11 – 00:07:39:01

Chris Lake

So I went with it. I went within, I ran with it. I wrote a book. I found a mentor who taught me how to write a book, and I started and finished it in ten weeks and then took about seven months to edit and format it at some. How was it help your child to meet their milestones? 101 Behavior Hacks.

 

00:07:39:01 – 00:08:07:03

Chris Lake

And it gives parents specifically what to say and what to do in order to help navigate your kid to meet milestones such as building communication, building manners, implementing rules and following rules, or to redirect challenging behaviors such as picky eating, de-escalating tantrums, aggression, etc. and you know, the tantrums that parents deal with every day. I realize I am now on a mission to deconstruct this and make their lives easier, because there’s a certain universal nature to how controls work.

 

00:08:07:05 – 00:08:10:20

Chris Lake

And that’s why we’re here, you know, to really explore that and share this with parents.

 

00:08:10:22 – 00:08:29:03

Dr. Mona

Oh, I’m so excited to get into that. Because yes, this is all it’s not just a simple, okay, do this checklist checklist. It’s a whole relationship. And it’s a whole understanding of how are we building connection and how are we building that pathway of I want you to continue to do this desired behavior, like you said, and not do the challenging behavior as much.

 

00:08:29:03 – 00:08:46:12

Dr. Mona

Obviously understanding that it’s repetition and all that. So let’s start there. You know, obviously, I think everyone listening who has a toddler has been there. I know some parents deal with it more than others in terms of maybe more physical or maybe more prolonged tantrums, but does tell us what should we do during a tantrum to de-escalate it?

 

00:08:46:16 – 00:08:49:12

Dr. Mona

And then we will talk about what not to do, but let’s talk about what to do first.

 

00:08:49:12 – 00:09:11:21

Chris Lake

All right. What to do first and foremost is make sure your child is safe. So look look around the area. The child is having a tantrum. Depending on how big their tantrum is, some kids will throw themselves on the floor. They’ll kick, they’ll flail their arms. If that’s the case, make sure they can’t kick anything that will in turn lead to something falling on them or knocking things over that will in turn hurt them, and also make sure that they’re not going to hurt anyone else, including you.

 

00:09:11:22 – 00:09:28:06

Chris Lake

Sometimes parents are okay with taking it. Ill try to avoid just being okay with your child hurting you. It’s not healthy for you, it’s not about the child, etc. so first look at risk assess is there anything dangerous in this environment that I need to be immediately aware of? Because if that’s the case, then you will need to physically move your child and we’ll get to that later.

 

00:09:28:12 – 00:09:52:06

Chris Lake

The second thing you need to do, and this is the hardest part, parents, I’m with you on this. I understand how difficult this is, but there are disclaimers. It will get easier if you do the work and you need to do this work, and that is simply allow, okay, allow your child to complete a cycle of crying. And this might sound like madness to someone who hasn’t tried it, but all kids have an expiration time to their tantrum.

 

00:09:52:12 – 00:10:08:18

Chris Lake

If you are willing to wait, and doing so does a number of things for the child one. It allows them to actually emotionally process their feelings as opposed to having that step process, that internal process of processing being cut short by getting some sort of treat right. Sometimes we’re drawn to, oh, you know what? He’s crying. Just give him a cookie.

 

00:10:08:18 – 00:10:32:15

Chris Lake

Just came cocomelon the forms and that feels easier. That feels easier. However, what happens in this is that you’re training your child to understand a certain behavior. If I tantrum, I’m going to get something I like. That’s their takeaway. Kids learn best from what happens next. The context isn’t always important, especially if it serves them well. If I go to grandma’s house and every time I go to grandma’s house before I leave, I say, I want cookies.

 

00:10:32:15 – 00:10:52:15

Chris Lake

And you say, no, no, no, we’re not to do that. After a fit. And grandma’s like, here’s some cookies, here’s a bunch of cookies. That child remembers that they know that. But if you sit and wait and allow them to complete the crying cycle, you have opened the door of their understanding that this isn’t effective. And the biggest takeaway that I want all parents to know when it comes to behavior, start to ask yourself like, how does behavior work?

 

00:10:52:17 – 00:11:13:19

Chris Lake

Just asking yourself that question will start opening parts of your brain to analyze things here and there. All behavior continues as long as it is useful, all behavior continues as long as it is effective, either one. So if a child wants cocomelon and you say no cocomelon, but instead you give them a Snickers bar, that might not have been effective towards their initial aim, but it was useful.

 

00:11:13:22 – 00:11:43:04

Chris Lake

All right, but if a child tantrums and you wait out, you know a minute and a half for them to finish and calm themselves down, they have learned this is not an effective or useful behavior. I’m just tired and I need a I need a wipe. And after this happens, you’re actually able to engage them. It’s very difficult to engage your child when they’re in the tantrum, because at that moment, a couple parts of the brain are really firing very fast, and it’s going to be your amygdala is going to be the insula, and it’s going to be the prefrontal cortex.

 

00:11:43:04 – 00:12:04:11

Chris Lake

And each of these are playing different parts. The amygdala is basically a threat detection system. Your kids brain processes threats in a way that is going to raise temperature, is going to release stress hormones, and they’re going to not be in control. It’s going to affect the prefrontal cortex, which is decision making. And their insula, which is also the self-awareness and emotion processing, is going to be thrown off by all of this.

 

00:12:04:15 – 00:12:23:08

Chris Lake

So while saying calm down or trying to explain yourself while they’re in the throes of it feels like a good strategy, they’re not receiving you. Their brain is literally out of control. That’s why I say allow them to finish. Now. Once they do finish, you want to praise them for calming themselves down. When you give a kid this information, they now have a new understanding.

 

00:12:23:08 – 00:12:48:01

Chris Lake

Wait a second. I can calm myself down. Yes, you have the power to calm you down. You don’t need anyone outside of you to feed your emotions. You’ve calmed yourself down and after you’ve allowed this crying cycle, the next step is to give them an expression of kindness. And this is very important. It can’t be understated. You want to validate their feelings even though parents you might be annoyed I heaven because it’s time to leave the grocery store.

 

00:12:48:01 – 00:13:04:17

Chris Lake

Or yes, it’s time to leave for fill in the blank. Well, whatever time delay your child is providing through this tantrum, they are having a feeling that is very uncomfortable for them, and they are feeling a frustration that’s very unsettling for them. And while we’re annoyed if you simply say like, time to go, I don’t care, let’s get in the car.

 

00:13:04:19 – 00:13:24:23

Chris Lake

They are learning from their parents that my emotions don’t matter, that my feelings don’t matter. My bad feelings don’t matter. My bad feelings I should be ashamed of. If anything. So when you give an expression of kindness, you are center stage that a their feelings are validated and be that if they have big feelings that are bad or uncomfortable, they can come to mom and still find comfort.

 

00:13:24:23 – 00:13:43:03

Chris Lake

They can come to dad. Find comfort. An example of giving a kind expression is simply something as simple as you’re very frustrated. I see that you really sad that you couldn’t have it. I understand I get sad sometimes too. Oh, you’re really mad because the cell battery died. I get really mad when I want to watch a video too and I can’t see it.

 

00:13:43:03 – 00:14:00:16

Chris Lake

I understand I have that feeling too. It’s okay to have that feeling following that validation, which is going to build sympathy and empathy for your child. You are now going to explain what the expectations are for this scenario. So you’re not going to cry and say, okay, now you calm yourself down his cocomelon you’re going to say, right?

 

00:14:00:18 – 00:14:18:03

Chris Lake

Even though you feel mad, it’s still time to go, sweetheart. And when we get home, we could talk about what treats we have at home. Even though you want this cookie, we’re not buying that today. And when we get home, you can earn something in our cupboard or what have you. You can redirect them to something’s going to happen later.

 

00:14:18:03 – 00:14:36:13

Chris Lake

And this again establishes that you are the rule setter. This establishes that behavior is not effective or useful, and it still allows that room for the child to feel okay for having that feeling and not be embarrassed, but also understand that there’s still things available. It’s not that like no one on my universe ends and I can never have anything unless there’s something good that you can get a little later.

 

00:14:36:13 – 00:14:43:13

Chris Lake

Just not right now. This isn’t it. And you know, there’s some people who fly by the philosophy of never say no to a child. I am not one of those people.

 

00:14:43:13 – 00:14:45:07

Dr. Mona

I say.

 

00:14:45:09 – 00:15:02:03

Chris Lake

If I honestly, I don’t know. For me, I’m always curious, what’s the proof? Whenever I hear any philosophy, I always have. What’s the proof that that’s better for a child to develop into a young adult? An adult that they never hear? No. Once they leave the house is their proof. And you know, if you can’t show it to me, then I’m going to be very questionable, because we sure know far more often than we care.

 

00:15:02:03 – 00:15:23:05

Chris Lake

Yes, I think it’s better to hear it from a healthy kind way than to face the world where it might not be. So. Time. So again to review and I, you know, jokingly referred to as the Lake method because I’m self-aggrandizing. And I’ll admit it, first I’m I was I made it first step is to look look around risk assess second step allow allow the child to finish their crying cycle.

 

00:15:23:07 – 00:15:47:11

Chris Lake

Third step is kindness. Okay, give them some expression of sympathy and empathy that you understand that they have feelings or explain. I also have found that there’s two. And then fourth step is explain. Explain what behavior is expected when you want something. This is how you ask if you want something. This is not how to behave. I can start my two and a half to a daughter in her tracks by simply saying, how do you ask when she has a tantrum?

 

00:15:47:13 – 00:16:08:07

Chris Lake

Like how do you ask? I should like please. Yeah, that’s much better. Yeah. Thank you, thank you. And, you know, I want parents. The the allowing your child to have the tantrum was difficult at first, especially if you’re in public. But I’m going to give you a deal. Here’s a deal. If you go through this the first time you let the child really finish that crying cycle, that’s the longest you’ll ever have to deal with it again.

 

00:16:08:09 – 00:16:25:02

Chris Lake

In infants, right? Right. For that particular reason, and I tell parents to get a stopwatch out as soon as you can start a tantrum and get a stopwatch. It’s the most useful tool that I found with my daughter, with other parents, as well, because some parents don’t realize their kid only has a 22nd fight in them, and you’re swooping to the rescue in 10s.

 

00:16:25:07 – 00:16:40:04

Chris Lake

But if you’re like, how long can you cry? How long will you cry about this nonsense? Let’s find out. Oh, a minute and 20s. And now you’re done. Great. Now you’ve got to hang up your jacket. And that’s a little example that I had with my daughter where she came home on Friday night. And just for whatever reason, this night refused to just take her jacket off and hanging up.

 

00:16:40:04 – 00:16:59:08

Chris Lake

And I said, oh, we’re going to wait. Yeah, let us know when you’re done. And it was a minute and 21 seconds on the nose. And then we never dealt with the tantrum about that ever again. And so that’s the promise that I give you guys, if you go through that really crappy sucky experience, whether it’s public or private, it’s the longest you’ll deal with it is the strongest.

 

00:16:59:08 – 00:17:13:10

Chris Lake

You’ll do that. It’s not a silver bullet. Disclaimer. That doesn’t mean they’ll never have another tantrum ever again. And you know, all your problems are solved. It means. And next time, if they do have a tantrum about that, it will be shorter and you will be well equipped to deal with it because you know, okay, last time was two minutes, but this time it’s a minute.

 

00:17:13:15 – 00:17:28:11

Chris Lake

Okay, last time was a minute. Now it’s 45 seconds. And you gotta pay attention to trends because it might not be from two minutes, two seconds. Right. But you’re going to see a decreasing trend until eventually it’s gone. Because a child learns this isn’t effective anymore. Okay. How do I behave, mom? This is how you behave. Okay, so I guess so.

 

00:17:28:11 – 00:17:29:21

Chris Lake

Thanks. Thank you for showing me the way.

 

00:17:30:02 – 00:17:56:21

Dr. Mona

Basically, I love it and it’s okay that you use your name as an acronym because that’s awesome, I love it. It’s totally okay. Thank you. Name. Your last name is worth an amazing acronym that we won’t forget. So thank you so much for sharing that. And I agree with you completely. I mean, so you said it perfectly that a lot of the times you just do not want to wait it out and it’s easier to use the word cave or use the word give them what they cry for.

 

00:17:56:21 – 00:18:13:03

Dr. Mona

When that again pattern recognition is going to teach them. Oh, this is pretty easy. I just cried and and it happens with in-laws. Some like my in-laws came recently and oh my like this and literally were in that room and my mother in law was like watching my son cry. And she turns to me in front of him and says, just give it to him.

 

00:18:13:08 – 00:18:33:19

Dr. Mona

And I’m like, oh, oh, I’m texting my my own mother in law’s testing my boundaries in front of my child. Nice and kindly say, mom, we’re not going to give that to him right now. He can have his feelings. Let him sit there. We’re here for him. But it’s so important because, like you said, they will move through it and they have to have that safety and saying, okay, I’m going to be upset.

 

00:18:33:19 – 00:18:49:22

Dr. Mona

But yeah, there are boundaries here that I’m not going to cry to get what I want. And I love what you mentioned about switching the communication style. Right. Like meaning if they are whining or crying or using phrases or ways to get our attention, you say with your daughter and you said beautifully, is that the way we want a communicator is not the way you want to tell me.

 

00:18:49:22 – 00:19:08:06

Dr. Mona

Can you sign? Another way of communicating that with me is so powerful because it teaches them communication skills too. And so not only are we allowing them to feel the feelings, we’re allowing them to also understand. Here’s how we communicate in our home. And it’s a loving space. I love you, I appreciate you, but you got to hang up the jacket.

 

00:19:08:09 – 00:19:12:06

Dr. Mona

We got to do certain things and you’re going to survive. We’re all going to do.

 

00:19:12:06 – 00:19:28:12

Chris Lake

This, right? Right. Oh, man. And the alternative, unfortunately, when you go through it. Right. And I talked to empowering about this. She said she had a similar experience in a grocery store where she let her child cry for it and she, you know, acted a fool for like a couple minutes, I think was like five minutes. And she felt like it felt like forever.

 

00:19:28:14 – 00:19:50:10

Chris Lake

But I let her finish. And then she said she went to the grocery store again later that month, and she had a similar tantrum, but it was just one minute. And then she never dealt with it again. Literally never dealt with it again with a daughter who’s now a teenager, and she didn’t even think about the fact she wasn’t dealing with anymore until a friend asked her, like a year later, how do you deal with, you know, when your kid has a tantrum in the grocery store and she remembers like, oh, I actually don’t.

 

00:19:50:14 – 00:20:01:17

Chris Lake

I don’t have to deal with that at all? Yeah, because I let her go through it. And that’s the thing. You’re trading time one way or another. You either take that time to deal with it, or it’s going to be drawn out across months to years, depending on your kid.

 

00:20:01:19 – 00:20:17:02

Dr. Mona

I love it, and you already mentioned, I think by talking about what to do, I think all the stuff about what you shouldn’t do will make a lot of sense. But is there anything that you want to drive home on what we really shouldn’t do in those moments when our child is having a tantrum, which can, in a way, escalate them even more?

 

00:20:17:04 – 00:20:31:00

Chris Lake

Absolutely. So the key is kindness is one of my other big models. So you want to keep kind. I know at step three, but just generally have a kind of energy. So you don’t want to be aggressive. You don’t want to show the kid to calm down, to relax. That hasn’t, in the history of anyone ever actually helped out.

 

00:20:31:06 – 00:20:46:00

Dr. Mona

I’m asking us, right. Like, it’s funny to me because we talk about children and like, if me and you are having a argument or a conversation and you just say, gosh, Mona, you just need to relax right now. Oh, okay, Chris, that sounds like a good plan. Let me just go ahead and just sit here like it’s so funny.

 

00:20:46:00 – 00:20:47:13

Chris Lake

This. Thanks.

 

00:20:47:14 – 00:20:53:14

Dr. Mona

Right. And why didn’t I think about you a doll? I don’t want to hear that because it’s not helpful. It’s not helpful. Yes, absolutely.

 

00:20:53:14 – 00:21:09:09

Chris Lake

It’s true for adults is trigger for kids. So just, you know, obviously, don’t be cruel. You know, don’t mock. I always get annoyed when I see adults, even young adults, you know, imitating kids crying like, need like, what do you get to be so sad about their kids now they’re processing. They’re learning the world and it’s not easy.

 

00:21:09:09 – 00:21:27:08

Chris Lake

And you know what people can feel even if you’re not appreciating how they feel in that moment, they’re allowed to feel. Don’t make them feel dumb or unintelligent for having an emotion, even if it is out of place, because they’re still in the place of learning how to have emotions. What emotions are. You know, we don’t give the word anxiety to young children as something they know they even have.

 

00:21:27:09 – 00:21:45:03

Chris Lake

A lot of people think people only have anxiety starting puberty from day one, and we don’t teach little kids how to either identify that or process that properly. So they have things to be concerned about. They have fears, they have phobias. So aside from not being kind, the other thing that you don’t want to do is, you don’t want to overly coddle the kid.

 

00:21:45:03 – 00:22:00:23

Chris Lake

You know, like you said, you don’t want to say, okay, you don’t want to endlessly ingratiating endlessly, just, feed into what it is that they want. Absolutely. Even if you feel like, quote unquote heart is breaking. And that’s something that’s very difficult for some people to overcome. Your heart won’t break. It won’t. Your kid will be fine.

 

00:22:01:01 – 00:22:20:17

Chris Lake

They’ve done research shows no amount of crying that a toddler is going to do that’s going to cause any trauma or permanent brain damage. In fact, truth is, most infants, including you and I, cry for on average 2.5 hours every single day in our infancy. And it doesn’t cause any issues. So if a kid’s crying really, really hard, they’re okay.

 

00:22:20:17 – 00:22:34:17

Chris Lake

They just learned that if I turn up, I’m going to get what I want. And the final thing and this is going to be very challenging as well. But again, I promise you, if you stick with it, you will be on the other side of a breakthrough. Okay? I’m my mom on a mission to turn terrible twos into transformational twos.

 

00:22:34:19 – 00:22:52:16

Chris Lake

Yeah. When a kid realizes some kids are really sharp and they say, hey, this isn’t quite working. Okay, you know what I need to do? I need to turn up and the tantrum will go from like a level five to a level 7 or 8. And at that point, people’s internal, I guess the adults who make the laws that are detecting a threat and say this isn’t right, something’s wrong.

 

00:22:52:16 – 00:23:08:10

Chris Lake

My a b I have to give it to them. This is too much. It’s not too much. They won’t break. They’re not going to have any sort of trauma. They won’t need therapy. They only remember to be honest with you. But what will happen is this moment is called an extinction burst. Basically, it’s signals when the behavior is almost ready to be extinct.

 

00:23:08:11 – 00:23:31:15

Chris Lake

They are trying the last. It’s like the swan song of that behavior. Unless you feed that swan, if you feed that swan, then the song gets louder next time. So instead of starting at the five and popping up to an eight, next time, it’s going to start a six and pop up to a ten and then across time, the behavior gets even more and more extreme because it kept learning, turning ups the way that behavior is useful.

 

00:23:31:15 – 00:23:47:03

Chris Lake

First tantrum, then turn up. And that can go from simply crying and flailing to aggressive and even self-injurious behavior at times. Not always. But again, you want to just wait it out. They’ll be okay, keep them safe and wait it out, and then keep going and then explain.

 

00:23:47:05 – 00:24:02:03

Dr. Mona

It seems so easy and I absolutely agree with you because it is what we do as well. And like you said, it’s very hard for so many and especially if maybe we grew up with that sort of mentality that this is what we do. We shut down the crying, shut it down, shut it down, don’t cry, don’t cry.

 

00:24:02:08 – 00:24:29:11

Dr. Mona

And I wish my mother in law can listen to this. And and what you just said about the amygdala being activated, that you’re like, I got to do it. I got to give the kid what they want right now. And it’s like you said perfectly that what are we teaching them in that moment? It’s so important here. And I also love Chris, how you really bring it back to kindness, because many times parents are afraid to do what we’re talking about, which is so vital because they’re afraid of their kid hating them, their kid being traumatized, their kid not feeling like their love.

 

00:24:29:13 – 00:24:33:08

Dr. Mona

But this is love. We’re teaching is love. We’re teaching boundaries.

 

00:24:33:09 – 00:24:34:16

Chris Lake

This is the tough part of.

 

00:24:34:16 – 00:24:48:21

Dr. Mona

Life, right? Yeah. This is the exactly the tough love part of love. And that you’re also. I heard you say it. You’re not mocking them. You’re giving them space to feel, but they can’t do certain things, and they can’t have everything that they want at any given moment. And that’s okay. It’s okay.

 

00:24:49:01 – 00:25:03:09

Chris Lake

I just realized one thing I want to add to step two when you’re allowing your child to cry, this is very useful for the parent. Make your body small. Okay, so if your kid is if they’re on the ground now where they are, just crouch down, get as close to each level as possible, and keep it very calm and peaceful demeanor.

 

00:25:03:09 – 00:25:23:15

Chris Lake

This is going to help reset their amygdala. Yeah, if you’re standing tall and you’re giving your arms a wave and you’re like, come on, please stop. That’s adding to a threat detection. But if you come real small, crouched down to hey, hi, let me know when you’re ready. In a very calm, soothing NPR radio voice, you are going to so you really want to tap into.

 

00:25:23:17 – 00:25:32:21

Chris Lake

Yeah, that’s going to help bring them down faster. That’s going to help them feel less and less threatened and shorten that duration of time. So when you allow make your body small, get down to a level that helps.

 

00:25:33:02 – 00:25:46:04

Dr. Mona

These are all great tips. Chris, I hope to have you on another episode in the future. This was so important and again filled with compassion, kindness, but also child development, which is so important. What would be your final message for everyone listening today?

 

00:25:46:06 – 00:26:01:05

Chris Lake

Again, the key is kindness. You know, the trick to parenting is keep kind and also be firm. That’s really the way to work. And all behavior is going to continue as long as is useful. Good or bad, good or bad, really, really own that statement because it’s true. Those two thoughts I leave you with.

 

00:26:01:11 – 00:26:07:21

Dr. Mona

I love it and tell everyone listening where people can find you, your resources and also your your website, all of that.

 

00:26:07:23 – 00:26:28:12

Chris Lake

Absolutely. So you can find me at Baby booster.com or 101 behavior, Zacks.com. Or you can buy my book, Help Your Toddler Meet Their Milestones 101 Behavior Hacks. You can find me on IG at either Crystal Lake or at Behavior Booster. And, you can find me on LinkedIn as well. Chris Lake, NYC reach out if you have questions, let me know.

 

00:26:28:13 – 00:26:36:02

Chris Lake

I really enjoy giving people just, an easier pathway towards parenting. It really boils down to communication, guys, but you got to be self-aware.

 

00:26:36:04 – 00:26:45:14

Dr. Mona

Yes, absolutely. And Chris, it was so amazing to connect with you. I can’t thank you enough for this uplifting and informative conversation. So thank you for joining us.

 

00:26:45:15 – 00:26:48:06

Chris Lake

Cheers. Same here document. Appreciate the platform.

 

00:26:48:08 – 00:27:07:09

Dr. Mona

And for everyone listening. I’m sure you loved this conversation. I love talking to Chris. Make sure if you like the conversation that you leave a review and rating and call out Chris especially for his amazing information. Like I said, I hope to have him on the show again and make sure to leave those reviews. And I cannot wait to welcome another guest next week.

 

00:27:07:09 – 00:27:23:02

Dr. Mona

Thank you for tuning in for this week’s episode. As always, please leave a review. Share this episode with a friend. Share it on your social media. Make sure to follow me at PedsDocTalk on Instagram and subscribe to my YouTube channel, PedsDocTalk TV. We’ll talk to you soon.