00;00;08;27 – 00;00;32;24

Dr. Mona

Welcome to this episode. I am so excited to welcome Doctor Siggie. She is a developmental therapist working with children and families. She is on Instagram as Doctor Dot C Segui E, where she shares so much information on how we can parent our children and understand child behavior and development a little bit more. Thank you so much for joining us today, Doctor Siggie.

 

00;00;32;25 – 00;00;34;22

Dr. Siggie Cohen

Thank you so much for having me, Mona.

 

00;00;34;26 – 00;00;51;06

Dr. Mona

I’m so excited. I love your account. And you know, you have so much to talk about, but we are talking about a common question I get asked about biting, hitting and throwing. So that’s what we’re going to be discussing today. But before we begin, tell me more about yourself and why you started your Instagram account.

 

00;00;51;09 – 00;01;13;26

Dr. Siggie Cohen

The reason for the Instagram is because I did feel that I have a lot to share with more people than I can obviously see in my office. I always had this sense that there’s more people out there I can reach, and obviously social media is a wonderful platform for that. That I think we all can enjoy. So that was the reason.

 

00;01;13;26 – 00;01;39;18

Dr. Siggie Cohen

I also was working on a course that I was beginning to develop. So I can, once again reach out so many more people through that course. And the Instagram platform was allowing me to get to know a lot of people, for a lot of people, to get to know me. So I can then introduce my course. And I’m happy that it’s been a wonderful experience.

 

00;01;39;20 – 00;01;48;01

Dr. Siggie Cohen

Being able to reach out so many people and for them mainly to reach back to me, I’m like in awe of that each and every time.

 

00;01;48;04 – 00;02;06;13

Dr. Mona

Oh, that’s so great. And I am so glad that I found your account also. You know, as a pediatrician, it’s just so important to hear other people’s perspective. You know, obviously I have my own training and expertise, but it’s just you never can learn enough, in my opinion. Learn from experts that are specialized in a certain niche.

 

00;02;06;13 – 00;02;25;16

Dr. Mona

Right. So for me, it’s been so great to follow you. And the way you talk about certain things, resonates so well with me as a pediatrician and also having a toddler. So I really appreciate you wanting to share your expertise with the broader group of people. It means so much as someone who’s doing something similar, with child health and wellness, I it’s exactly what I share my Instagram.

 

00;02;25;16 – 00;02;26;24

Dr. Mona

So I really appreciate that.

 

00;02;26;26 – 00;02;29;13

Dr. Siggie Cohen

Yeah. Thank you. And makes sense.

 

00;02;29;16 – 00;02;51;27

Dr. Mona

Yeah. So we are talking about biting, hitting, throwing. Like I said already, there were so many topics we could talk about, but this is one that commonly gets asked on my, you know, story questions or whenever people are asking me. So let’s talk about development for like developmentally, why do kids do these behaviors? And is it ever considered normal for them to let’s example throw or bite or hit?

 

00;02;52;00 – 00;03;15;04

Dr. Siggie Cohen

Yes, absolutely. So obviously we we’re not going to say it’s normal for a four year old to do that, maybe not even a three and a half year old, but 100%. It is normal for toddlers to be doing it or anytime they’re between the ages of 1416 months, all the way to 26 months, even a little older. It is very normal and typical behavior.

 

00;03;15;07 – 00;03;37;02

Dr. Siggie Cohen

Saying that doesn’t mean that we are accepting and allowing and sort of like saying, oh, it will pass. We do want to intervene. We do want to do something for most of them. They do attempt that a couple of times and then they move on. But so the ones that actually don’t do the move are naturally we want to help and intervene.

 

00;03;37;04 – 00;03;40;00

Dr. Siggie Cohen

Even if we say it’s normal and typical.

 

00;03;40;02 – 00;03;58;14

Dr. Mona

So knowing that it’s normal to look like completely agree with that. We still want to find ways to remedy it. So it doesn’t become a issue that when the child three four years old and also helping them work with those emotions and work with those actions, how can we navigate these behaviors as parents? Let’s maybe use the throwing example, things that we can do in the moment, things that we can do later.

 

00;03;58;14 – 00;03;59;27

Dr. Mona

What are some of your general tips?

 

00;03;59;29 – 00;04;26;26

Dr. Siggie Cohen

Right. So we want to understand, first of all, that when we say it’s normal and typical, it is part of natural development. But where they are at that point in life is that language cognitive. Obviously an intellect is progressing, but not as fast as emotions. So at this point, their emotion or their emotion or capacity is really growing, but their ability to explain and express it is still very limited.

 

00;04;26;29 – 00;05;01;16

Dr. Siggie Cohen

So this is why using anything that is physical, primal, right. These are primal behaviors. They’re instant, they’re quick, they get a reaction. They get the job done right or doesn’t quite for the child. So we want to understand where it’s coming from, the inability to take the moment, to regulate, to understand what it is that I’m feeling and then express it in any other way except for that instant action of throwing, biting, pushing and pulling is where we want to intervene.

 

00;05;01;16 – 00;05;29;12

Dr. Siggie Cohen

So back to understanding. The child has some need to express an emotion. Whatever it is, sometimes it’s just an attempt even of some physical behavior. They are learning to use their body and they’re learning to use all the different parts of their body. So it’s very, reactive. It’s very impulsive. Still, we want to be able to recognize that this is where they’re coming from, so then we can do something about it.

 

00;05;29;12 – 00;05;57;03

Dr. Siggie Cohen

So what does it mean in action? Throwing by itself is not necessarily bad. They have muscles. Their muscles are growing. Their muscles need to be active. Right. So throwing by itself is a good thing. But throwing a toy car at me when you’re angry or just throwing it across the room not okay because there is an appropriate place, an object to throw as opposed to not.

 

00;05;57;07 – 00;06;29;29

Dr. Siggie Cohen

So we say whoa, throwing. Wow, look at you. Throwing is a good thing. But yeah. No, we’re not going to throw the toy car this is not for throwing. So we recognize the action that the child is needing or generating and expressing it. In this case in an inappropriate way. We recognize it, but then we specify we define exactly where and how and what this action is appropriate and not.

 

00;06;30;02 – 00;06;36;02

Dr. Mona

That’s great tips. And with that same thing applies for like, biting behavior or hitting behavior. I know we talked about throwing.

 

00;06;36;08 – 00;07;01;11

Dr. Siggie Cohen

Absolutely. So the typical thing and I hear it often is a parent will say, no, don’t throw. That’s not okay. Throwing is not okay. Which is actually not true. Throwing is okay, but you right. Throwing the toy car across the room is not okay. Parents will say, why are you biting me, right? Questioning a toddler to begin with, they can’t actually quite explain and express how they’re feeling.

 

00;07;01;11 – 00;07;30;11

Dr. Siggie Cohen

So obviously they’re not going to respond to that question. So it becomes sort of like a rhetorical question, why are you biting me? And they will say, you know, that’s not nice. You’re hurting me. Why are you pulling my hair? And so on. So once again, we want to place the behavior within its appropriateness. The child has an action and that to begin with is not necessarily bad, but in the way in which they’re expressing it is definitely not so biting.

 

00;07;30;11 – 00;07;59;02

Dr. Siggie Cohen

Wow, look at you. You have great teeth. Can’t bite me. We don’t bite people. But what can we bite? So now you provide an alternative. You provide an expression, an outlet that is actually appropriate for that particular action without, diminishing it, without reprimanding the child for a behavior that they’re not fully aware of. In the moment that they are executing it, obviously.

 

00;07;59;04 – 00;08;08;01

Dr. Siggie Cohen

And you are providing a positive alternative, an outlet for what it is that they want to do without shame and doubt.

 

00;08;08;03 – 00;08;30;10

Dr. Mona

I love that, and sometimes we may see that a child or a parent will say, you know, they don’t do this at home, but the school or daycare is saying that they’re biting at school. So in that situation where maybe the parent is not seeing it or the Guardian, but it’s happening at school, how can a parent remedy the biting situation when they’re not physically seeing the biting happen?

 

00;08;30;12 – 00;08;34;10

Dr. Mona

Is it reaffirming when they can bite? Like, how can they navigate that situation?

 

00;08;34;12 – 00;09;00;17

Dr. Siggie Cohen

So definitely they can do that. They can randomly talk to the child in situations where they are actually using their teeth. Right? So they are eating and they can say, look at you using your teeth to bite the sandwich, the apple, the chicken. This is very good to have great teeth. So we are actually in this case placing it with the appropriate right, setting and even promoting it.

 

00;09;00;17 – 00;09;22;14

Dr. Siggie Cohen

But then we can now use the other situation as a frame of reference of what not to do with our teeth. So, yeah, earlier you were remember, you went to daycare this morning and then you wanted to bite. Or maybe you did. Michael. All right. Yeah, that was not okay. And Michael was crying and the teacher was saying no, not okay.

 

00;09;22;17 – 00;09;43;03

Dr. Siggie Cohen

So we don’t bite people, but we can bite. What? And now you can even bring the child into that conversation. So include them. What? Can we bite? Yeah, we can bite you. Right. You have an apple right here, or you got, you know, your orange or your chicken. Yeah. Good job. You can buy that. You have great teeth.

 

00;09;43;03 – 00;10;10;01

Dr. Siggie Cohen

And that’s what they’re for. Biting people. Biting Michael at school. No, not okay. That would be one thing to strengthen. That idea where a parent can do that in a home. Now, I do think that the school needs to also intervene in the correct kind of way. So obviously, you know, if this one particular child bitten another child at school, the other child is crying, there’s a lot of commotion around it.

 

00;10;10;03 – 00;10;33;14

Dr. Siggie Cohen

We’re now grabbing one child and no, that’s not okay. So the school needs to 100% for a while and usually doesn’t take too much to undo this behavior. If you stay on top of it and you correct it often before it actually happens. So I know the teachers have a lot to do, and when there’s a whole bunch of toddlers, it’s chaotic.

 

00;10;33;14 – 00;10;58;19

Dr. Siggie Cohen

But hopefully you don’t have too many biters all at the same time. They usually just have one. So a teacher has to be closer to that one particular child and help and stop it before it happens. So right then and there, it’s like about to happen because they want the toy, right? And one child and they grab it or they bite in order to get that toy from someone who’s very close to them.

 

00;10;58;19 – 00;11;20;22

Dr. Siggie Cohen

So they need to be there to stop it before it happens right then and there, because that’s when actually we can promote success before the failure. All right. Before it even happens. So the teacher will say, well, no, I can see you want the toy. And that’s okay, but we’re not going to bite Michael. We’re going to wait for our turn.

 

00;11;20;28 – 00;11;42;24

Dr. Siggie Cohen

We’re going to use our words and say, can I have the toy? And so on and so forth. So bring in language, bring in cognition to allow the child to recognize that they have to communicate that way and when we help them communicate that way, we also helping them progress to the next level of socialization, which is to be inclusive, right?

 

00;11;42;24 – 00;11;55;20

Dr. Siggie Cohen

When I bite someone, I only think of me. But when I use my words, I am now recognizing that someone else has to be included in the conversation, which is very important.

 

00;11;55;22 – 00;12;15;06

Dr. Mona

Oh, these are such great tips. And, you know, I’m sure in your experience, obviously with all of your work, you know, in, in real life, but also on social media with educating people, what do you think? You see? You know, your opinion is the biggest mistake or maybe error. And I think it’s rightfully so. Maybe just parents don’t know.

 

00;12;15;08 – 00;12;22;15

Dr. Mona

Biggest mistake they make when they’re trying to eliminate or work with these behaviors is any rhetorical questioning.

 

00;12;22;15 – 00;12;37;27

Dr. Siggie Cohen

And a lot of placing themselves in the situation as if making the child, you know, feel bad? And I’m just going to say it lightly is going to change their behavior. So why are you doing that? That’s not okay. You’re hurting me. Do you want to hurt me?

 

00;12;37;29 – 00;12;38;12

Dr. Mona

Yeah.

 

00;12;38;13 – 00;13;01;20

Dr. Siggie Cohen

I mean, really, you’re having this kind of a conversation with a toddler. Can they. I mean, can you can they really philosophize? Oh, right. Yeah. So. And you know what? Sometimes I even say, okay, so you asking your child, did you want to hurt me? And really, if they could answer, they would say, yeah, that was my intention.

 

00;13;01;20 – 00;13;33;27

Dr. Siggie Cohen

I mean, I get a reaction. This is sort of fun for me. I mean, I don’t know about you, so. Yeah. Okay, so let’s not try and say these things to them. So you said boundaries very, very clearly and firmly without diminishing who they are, without questioning, and without shaming them. And then we place whatever the action is in the right, sort of like channeling in the right direction to guide them, to mentor them, not to make them feel bad so they change their behavior.

 

00;13;34;02 – 00;13;51;07

Dr. Mona

Oh, yeah. I see the rationalizing a lot. And, you know, the, the guilt thing, like, why would you hurt mommy? Or like, the fake crying like a dog? The dog will be crying. I think it’s really important that we’re talking about this because I agree with you completely. I think that’s a a thing that maybe parents will do thinking that would help.

 

00;13;51;07 – 00;14;11;16

Dr. Mona

But no, I mean, very important that we understand child development and behavior in order to discipline a child. Right. Or boundaries. If you don’t know child development and behavior, you’re going to get more frustrated. You’re I mean, we all are going to get frustrated when our toddlers or children do certain things. But if you can understand, you know, I always say, I don’t want you to put yourself in their shoes because you can’t you can’t do that with anyone.

 

00;14;11;21 – 00;14;29;27

Dr. Mona

But understand what’s going on with that toddler brain. And you should have perfectly at the beginning, right? You said that they have these big emotions. They are trying to figure out how to use their body and what this means, these primal instincts like, oh, I’m feeling a certain way. I’m just going to throw. I’m just going to go like, it’s not that they’re trying to be bad.

 

00;14;30;01 – 00;14;48;09

Dr. Mona

I don’t think kids at this age especially, are trying to do anything bad. They are literally trying to figure out, well, if I do x, Y, and Z, what’s going to happen? Okay, mommy laughed or mommy got upset. This is fun that we’re playing this game, so I love it. I think it’s so important that we understand. I know it’s hard because I’m a toddler mom angry at our children.

 

00;14;48;09 – 00;15;04;23

Dr. Mona

Like, but if you understand, like, hey, this is what they’re thinking and this is what they are not capable at this age of understanding, I think it can really help in communicating the skills. And I’m sure you agree that sometimes we try to talk to them and rationalize with the part of the brain that is not developed yet.

 

00;15;04;23 – 00;15;07;28

Dr. Mona

Like, I mean, you can’t rationalize with an 18 month old.

 

00;15;08;01 – 00;15;08;29

Dr. Siggie Cohen

Kid, not.

 

00;15;09;01 – 00;15;25;08

Dr. Mona

As much as you want. You you can meet them emotionally and validate them because their emotions are like hyper wired. But you can’t say, well, this is wrong because like, they don’t understand that. Is there any other areas? And she and discipline I know we’re talking about biting, hitting, throwing, but I love this little segue. Because it’s so important.

 

00;15;25;11 – 00;15;47;12

Dr. Siggie Cohen

Yes, absolutely. And you’re very right. So this form of rationalizing that a lot of times parents do and I can say, you know, advocating for parents, they’re thinking they’re doing the right thing. They’re really trying to explain to their children. And I see it gets lost. And now you’re missing. You’re missing out on really giving the right kind of guidance.

 

00;15;47;17 – 00;16;09;10

Dr. Siggie Cohen

And now you said what you said, but they did not actually receive it the way you want. So it’s wasted on them. And so I want you to have the right intention, obviously in a way to guide them, to mentor them, but not necessarily to rationalize as if you are both having the same kind of experience. And that’s really where it comes from.

 

00;16;09;12 – 00;16;33;06

Dr. Siggie Cohen

Rationalizing requires a lot of experience. So when I’m explaining to my child that has very limited experience and also limited ability to foresee things, right, I’m going to do this and this will be the outcome. Except for true cause and effect. I’m going to push this button and the jack in the box jumps out. Oh I get that.

 

00;16;33;11 – 00;16;59;21

Dr. Siggie Cohen

And that’s what I do. I keep pushing buttons and I see reactions, but that doesn’t actually teach me what to do beyond that. So this is where we want to react, not from our emotions or state of mind. Kind of. That’s hard. Okay. While you’re doing, but from their point of view. So that is number one. The other thing I think that happens often is parents use a lot of abstract language.

 

00;16;59;27 – 00;17;28;22

Dr. Siggie Cohen

So abstract language is a lot of these kind of words such as this is dangerous. Don’t do that. That’s not safe. So when I mean obviously we know exactly what we mean when we say that. But the preparation of brain, the primal brain of a toddler, doesn’t actually understand these abstract concepts. And abstract words. So when you say the word safe, can you point out to me what is safe?

 

00;17;28;24 – 00;17;51;10

Dr. Siggie Cohen

Can you show me what is safe or what is not safe? You can’t. It’s a concept that my brain has to understand once it’s developed enough, once it acquired enough experience, and that’s when it can. Oh, I see what you mean. But right now you can’t. So you can say something like. Whoa, that is so not safe. Let me show you why.

 

00;17;51;17 – 00;18;14;19

Dr. Siggie Cohen

Oh, yeah. If we drop it, it will break. Or if I, you know, if I whatever. If I throw, yes. It’s going to give me an hour. It’s going to hurt. I can say that slightly, but for the most part I just want to be much more clear, precise, definitive. So I set the right boundaries. I use my child, my toddler’s point of view.

 

00;18;14;19 – 00;18;31;28

Dr. Siggie Cohen

I can see what it is that you want to do. Not okay to do it this way. Let me show you how you can do it in here. Now let’s do this. There is a lot of throwing a toddler can do right now, a lot of pulling and pushing and biting even that they can do. There’s a lot of that.

 

00;18;31;28 – 00;18;52;28

Dr. Siggie Cohen

Go ahead. Let’s do all that we can do with those kind of actions that is positive and gives you the right kind of, outlet. And let’s just tell you what not to do. Clear precisely without shaming, guilting, and trying for you to understand me the way I understand me or life.

 

00;18;53;01 – 00;19;12;16

Dr. Mona

Couldn’t agree more. I mean, one of the biggest things I told my husband and also my patients is also the United front on how we’re going to approach this. Right? Because Ryan is 18 months and went through it throwing change. You know, I do practice a lot of the stuff that you also talk about. In terms of not I don’t yell, I don’t, you know, sometimes you get upset, but more of the times I’m very firm with the boundary.

 

00;19;12;16 – 00;19;31;17

Dr. Mona

I remove him from the situation, reiterate all the stuff that we’re talking about. My husband on the other side, he gets upset when he gets hit or gets upset when things are thrown, and he takes it a little more personally. So he responds, you know, he’s like, don’t hit me. Why are you hitting me? That hurt daddy. And Ryan hits him more than he hits me, right?

 

00;19;31;22 – 00;19;46;01

Dr. Mona

And I think that’s also an important concept because unlike Ryan has learned that I’ve set that boundary. I’m like, I need you to trust me and follow through. He’s like, but it’s not fun. When he when I get hit, I’m like, of course it’s not. I’m not saying that it’s right or that it means it’s good, but we’re teaching Ryan, right?

 

00;19;46;01 – 00;20;03;17

Dr. Mona

He’s a toddler. He doesn’t get it. So I think it’s really important for parents and people listening to understand that. Try not to take it personally. I get it when our kids do things, it’s hard because if an adult did that to you, you’d feel like, whoa, but it’s them figuring out their environment and how things work more so than them trying to be a bad kid, right?

 

00;20;03;17 – 00;20;16;23

Dr. Mona

Like we talked about. And if you can have a united front with how you discipline, you’re going to start to see those changes. And once my husband listen to me, of course the behaviors start to go away because he’s like, oh man, this is not we’re not I’m not getting anywhere with this. And I showed my husband I’m like, watch.

 

00;20;17;00 – 00;20;32;24

Dr. Mona

Literally in front of his eyes. He saw how we were able to redirect him, but it won’t change unless we are consistent, persistent and truly patient with ourselves and understand that it’s okay. It’s not going to be one time. It’s not going to be like you told them one time in the throwing. You’re going to stop tomorrow. It’s patience.

 

00;20;32;24 – 00;20;35;09

Dr. Mona

They are going to get it with the repetition for sure.

 

00;20;35;11 – 00;20;58;29

Dr. Siggie Cohen

True. And especially if you allow them actually you know what Ryan. Look we can throw here the the ball the beanbags. Look at that. You’re so good at that. Of course. Come and throw it and so on. If we promote the action and give them that kind of outlet, there’s no need for them to misuse it in any other situation because we can also use that later.

 

00;20;59;02 – 00;21;18;21

Dr. Siggie Cohen

Like he’s trying to throw now something again. You’re like, no, remember this? We can’t. But because now you also build memory and you build an experience that they can rely on rather than just say, sort of like stuff that doesn’t make sense to them because they haven’t experienced it.

 

00;21;18;23 – 00;21;19;27

Dr. Mona

So. Very true.

 

00;21;20;03 – 00;21;20;17

Dr. Siggie Cohen

Yeah.

 

00;21;20;17 – 00;21;37;04

Dr. Mona

It’s oh, this is so great. I love talking to you. I could talk about child development behavior forever. I think people who listen to my podcast know that I love this stuff. I think it’s so great, like two people who are passionate about children and their development and teaching parents. It’s so fun. I doctor, I just love it.

 

00;21;37;06 – 00;21;50;29

Dr. Mona

So I’m going to attach your website to my shownotes, which is doctor SI.com, as well as your Instagram handle. I know you have some courses, but before we talk about, a little bit more about where people can find you, what would be your final message to everyone listening today?

 

00;21;51;01 – 00;22;15;23

Dr. Siggie Cohen

I think that you you actually said that when you understand child development, your responses are so different. So it doesn’t mean that you are allowing your children to act and be however they want in all the inappropriate ways, not at all. It only means that you understand where they’re coming from and you can channel, you can guide, you can steer them in the right direction.

 

00;22;15;29 – 00;22;40;00

Dr. Siggie Cohen

So I say learn child development because it truly will help you understand how to respond to your child, not take it so personally all the time. They’re not doing it to you. They’re doing it yes to you because you’re there, but it’s not so personal to you all the time. And of course not when they’re so young. But you are there sounding board.

 

00;22;40;00 – 00;23;00;23

Dr. Siggie Cohen

You are the one that they’re going to throw everything against in order to see how it bounces. So if you understand that, you can truly guide them so much better and have a better experience as a parent, rather than, being so triggered all the time by their behaviors or misbehavior.

 

00;23;00;25 – 00;23;10;21

Dr. Mona

Oh, thank you so much. And tell me a little bit more about the course that you have. I know you have a course again, it’s going to be on your website and I’ll touch the Instagram handle as well. But what can people find from that course?

 

00;23;10;26 – 00;23;34;29

Dr. Siggie Cohen

The course that I have right now deals with toddlers in particular, and it goes into exactly what we were just talking about in much more detail. So it explains, it gives examples, it walks you through exactly what to do. It’s me talking. These are video clips that you can watch, but there’s also, as we call them, cheat sheets that you can download afterwards with all the important points.

 

00;23;34;29 – 00;23;55;15

Dr. Siggie Cohen

And you can have it in front of you, whether on the refrigerator or just wherever you want on your phone. And the course takes you through all the elements of toddlerhood that, you know, if you have a toddler you’re struggling with, it also gives you an idea of who I am and how the kind of work that I’m doing and my approach.

 

00;23;55;17 – 00;24;07;17

Dr. Siggie Cohen

And so it builds on to the next course that hopefully we will have in a few months, which will be on, the what we call the preschool age, which is to 3 to 6 year olds.

 

00;24;07;20 – 00;24;24;26

Dr. Mona

Wonderful. And I know I’ll have you back on again more and more we could. Like I said, we’ve had so many discussions on topics that we can do. Everyone, make sure you follow Doctor Siggie on Instagram at Doctors at Dr. Dot IGI. And again, that’s on my channel. And thanks again for joining us today.

 

00;24;25;02 – 00;24;26;00

Dr. Siggie Cohen

Thank you.

 

00;24;26;03 – 00;24;40;22

Dr. Mona

Thank you for tuning in for this week’s episode. As always, please leave a review. Share this episode with a friend. Share it on your social media. Make sure to follow me at PedsDocTalk on Instagram and subscribe to my YouTube channel PedsDocTalk TV.

 

00;24;40;24 – 00;24;41;24

Dr. Mona

We’ll talk to you soon.