Verbalizing with our children when they have big feelings is important, but what is the actual purpose and what should we expect it to achieve?

I welcome Amy, a mom from the PDT community, to chat about verbalizing.

We discuss:

• Managing expectations of verbalizing with our children
• The importance of nonverbal communication during tantrums
• How we can show we’re okay with our child’s feelings besides verbalization

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00;00;00;00 – 00;00;21;27

Dr. Mona

The verbalizing is important for them to hear with repetition, but it’s also really for us to control our emotions, to maybe relax a little bit because I don’t know if you’ve been there, but sometimes just say you’re having a really hard day, sometimes just talking to yourself like, okay, Amy, you got this. Like you can do it like and just really talking yourself down and verbalizing with yourself can calm you down.

 

00;00;21;28 – 00;00;41;12

Dr. Mona

So I like to use the example of let’s use verbalization as sure this is going to be for them to know that we see them and that we are really okay with their feelings, but also know that it’s really going to be a way that we can use as a tool to calm ourselves down in a situation that’s getting escalated.

 

00;00;41;15 – 00;01;09;26

Dr. Mona

Hello everyone, and welcome back to the show. This podcast continues to grow because of you and your reviews, so thank you for tuning in and being here today. On this episode of Monday Mornings with Doctor Mona, I am talking with a parent named Amy about her daughter, who is 27 months old, and Amy is wondering why verbalizing her child’s feelings during tantrums and meltdowns is not exactly working as she expected.

 

00;01;09;28 – 00;01;30;22

Dr. Mona

Make sure you listen to the entire conversation as we talk about the purpose of verbalization. Some of the mistakes I feel parents make when they’re using verbalization, which is an important tool, and how to approach these moments with our children using verbalization and other tips as well.

 

00;01;30;25 – 00;01;37;01

Dr. Mona

Hey Amy, thank you so much for joining us on the show today. So tell me what is on your mind today as a mom?

 

00;01;37;04 – 00;02;03;14

Amy

Thank you so much for having me and really excited to be here. Yeah. So what we’ve been dealing with my daughter is 27 months, so she’s definitely in that phase of testing boundaries and mind control. And so, yeah, we’re kind of in the thick of it. My husband and I kind of been on the same page that the parenting approach that we want to take is more verbalization a little bit, you know, not so much on like the consequences or timeouts or things like that.

 

00;02;03;26 – 00;02;20;04

Amy

But what we are finding challenging is when the verbalization doesn’t necessarily work or have like immediate effect where, yeah, we’re just kind of in the thick of it, of verbalizing that you never okay. Her feelings by the tantrums continues.

 

00;02;20;06 – 00;02;42;24

Dr. Mona

Love it. Okay. This is really an important concept. And we’ll talk about the reason we verbalize. And I think the misconception is a lot of parents have around verbalization, which you’re not alone. I think a lot of parents share. So I guess my first question is what has been the most frustrating or hardest aspect of this issue? Do you feel like you expect the verbalization to not ensue in a tantrum?

 

00;02;42;24 – 00;02;49;16

Dr. Mona

Do you feel like the verbalization should be working quicker? What would you say has been, I guess, the most, hardest aspect of all of this?

 

00;02;49;19 – 00;03;06;03

Amy

Yeah, I mean, I think definitely both of those. And, maybe we’re looking for, like, instant gratification. Yes. Maybe the first or second time it won’t work, but, like, okay, if we’re consistent, we should be seeing her ending the change. Or once I give a choice, like she will pick and then we move on to the next gotcha.

 

00;03;06;06 – 00;03;28;16

Amy

But it’s kind of just continuing, and then we’re like, okay, we’re kind of second guessing ourselves. Is this working or are we doing this right? Should we be trying a different approach instead that we kind of waver, then we go shifted? Yeah. So just kind of finding it, you know, and I understand parenting was not the main rule, but, yeah, we were just kind of at, at a loss.

 

00;03;28;16 – 00;03;31;06

Amy

It’s like, you know, are we approaching this correctly?

 

00;03;31;09 – 00;03;51;26

Dr. Mona

Well, hopefully by the end of this episode, I will guide you and understanding you’re not at a loss and that you’re doing things. Okay. And maybe we need to reframe how we’re approaching our expectations around verbalization, you know, and I’ll talk about that because I think an example would be really helpful here. Maybe, example of the last time you used verbalization that you felt like it didn’t go as you expected.

 

00;03;51;26 – 00;04;04;07

Dr. Mona

And the scenario and what maybe you exactly said, like, if you can just bring me back to that moment and like, I’m a fly on the wall on what you said. How else? And you said it, and what she did. Your daughter’s 27 months, right?

 

00;04;04;10 – 00;04;04;21

Amy

Yes.

 

00;04;04;25 – 00;04;11;01

Dr. Mona

Yeah. So what she did during the verbalization, and then what you did after. Just take me into that moment so we all can be there together.

 

00;04;11;04 – 00;04;27;29

Amy

I think. Yeah, absolutely. So what happened was that kind of on a daily basis is, you know, we get ready for like time and we have our whole nighttime routine. And of course, part of that is changing into our pajamas for the night. And so every night we kind of go through the same dance. She doesn’t want to change.

 

00;04;27;29 – 00;04;45;18

Amy

She wants to keep on the clothes that she wore that day. And so we’re we, you know, talk her through that so she’ll even say, no, don’t want to change, want to do this on. We will say we understand that you want to keep your clothes on. And today but your clothes are dirty and you need to take those clothes off.

 

00;04;45;21 – 00;05;03;26

Amy

And we need to put your pajamas on. And then we will offer a choice of what she wants to wear. So she’s in a minimal space, and they do want to wear the pink Minnie Mouse pajamas or the great White House, the genres. And she will kind of get a little quiet while we’re talking her through that. Like, what option do you want?

 

00;05;03;28 – 00;05;20;05

Amy

And then she’ll not pick and she’ll just they want to keep it on, want to keep it on. And then we ask again, or maybe I go different choice. And then it’s kind of the same thing. She just keeps saying don’t want to change, want to keep this on type of thing until we somehow convince her otherwise.

 

00;05;20;07 – 00;05;26;20

Dr. Mona

And so has it ever ensued or has ever happened where she’s just started having a tantrum like crying?

 

00;05;26;23 – 00;05;34;19

Amy

Yes, absolutely. Like probably 90% of the time. Or she just flailed her body back. Yeah. And does the whole. Oh, we’ve been there.

 

00;05;34;21 – 00;05;52;08

Dr. Mona

Yes. Yeah. Okay. Listen, you I mean, obviously you’re in the prime of it, right? 27 months. I think every parent can agree that. I mean, people say oh, three is hard. You’re in you know, 27 months is a really hard time because they obviously have cognitive development to understand things, but they don’t truly understand full reasoning skills.

 

00;05;52;08 – 00;06;12;18

Dr. Mona

Right. Like, you could explain to her why we need to change the clothes, which is what you said beautifully. Like, okay, we have to change it because it’s from your daytime. It’s a little dirty or you spilled something on it, but that doesn’t really register so much with the toddler because they don’t have the frontal cortex in the developmental understanding to know, okay, there’s a reason, right?

 

00;06;12;24 – 00;06;25;13

Dr. Mona

So you did it. You did a really good thing. What happens when she does start to cry? Do you start verbalizing again the crying portion like what do you do? And what do you say during the crying tantrum moment?

 

00;06;25;15 – 00;06;43;07

Amy

Yeah, I mean, I think we’re sometimes inconsistent with our approach there. Sometimes will be like, we understand that you’re upset. You don’t want to take your clothes off. So we verbalize everything and give the options again. Yes. Other times we’re probably exhausted at the end of the day and I’ll just pick her up and like, I’m so sorry.

 

00;06;43;07 – 00;06;58;10

Amy

Like, I know and, you know, I kind of want to stop the crying as soon as possible. And so maybe we’re not being as consistent, but yeah, occasionally we’ll just need verbalize and occasionally will distract her with something else like the TV or what’s on the TV. What’s over here.

 

00;06;58;12 – 00;07;05;21

Dr. Mona

Right. So you kind of just kind of move through the motions of what you need. Yeah. Now, is there a TV in the room or you’re changing her in, like, another room?

 

00;07;06;10 – 00;07;11;05

Amy

There is a TV. I mean, we live in New York City. Oh, yes. It’s very.

 

00;07;11;05 – 00;07;12;02

Dr. Mona

Small. Gotcha, gotcha.

 

00;07;12;02 – 00;07;15;24

Amy

Yeah, yeah. So if we’re like, like, the TV is just, like, right above. Gotcha.

 

00;07;15;27 – 00;07;17;07

Dr. Mona

Yes. You can hear it. Yeah, yeah.

 

00;07;17;07 – 00;07;17;13

Amy

Yeah.

 

00;07;17;14 – 00;07;39;12

Dr. Mona

Yeah. Okay. Gotcha. How would you go? Oh, I live in New York. Yes. The excitement of having a child in a one bedroom apartment. When I hear you, I. Yeah. I didn’t have children in New York City, but I’ve been I’ve lived there, obviously, so I get it. Okay. This is really good information. And I love having these conversations on these Monday episodes because I like to hear the stage, like, set the stage of what are we dealing with so that I can kind of figure out, okay, here’s where we need to go from here.

 

00;07;39;16 – 00;08;02;22

Dr. Mona

So I first want to talk about our expectations around verbalization. And this is going to be useful for you and your partner to know and register, but also for everyone listening. The concept of verbalization. So verbalizing feelings is verbalizing our child’s emotions in that moment so that they feel seen, so that with time they understand that we are on a team together, right?

 

00;08;02;22 – 00;08;25;14

Dr. Mona

That mommy and daddy or mommy and mommy or whoever there is. We understand that there is a feeling happening here that they don’t like something that’s happening and that you’re seeing that, okay, I see that you’re upset, right? Like it’s usually verbalizing should start with something like, I see you, right? Like I see that you are frustrated. I see that you do not want to wear the pajamas.

 

00;08;25;14 – 00;08;46;24

Dr. Mona

I see that you really like your clothes. From the day I see that, you know, you’re basically. That’s how verbalization should go. And you’re what you want your child to kind of know that I see what you’re feeling, right? Okay. So that’s verbalization that I’m seeing what you’re feeling. The expectation advantage that we have to have is that the verbalization in itself is not going to stop the tantrum.

 

00;08;46;24 – 00;09;10;09

Dr. Mona

Right? The verbalization is a part of managing these emotions and redirecting them and managing the meltdown. Right. So it’s the whole seeing they’re feeling is part of it. Right? So holding the boundary is another part of the discipline moment of a tantrum or a meltdown. Right. So you’re seeing the feeling oh I’m really sorry that, you know, I see that you really do not want to wear your pajamas.

 

00;09;10;09 – 00;09;27;15

Dr. Mona

You really loved your clothes. What do you want to wear tomorrow? Do you want to pick that out now? And then you can even talk to them about tomorrow, right? Like, what do they get to wear tomorrow? Kind of planting to see that. I see what you’re feeling. And maybe she’s really happy and she really loved her dress or, you know, pants from the day and saying, what do you want to wear tomorrow?

 

00;09;27;15 – 00;09;42;29

Dr. Mona

And kind of putting that in there. But then also it’s then moving on to the next step of really holding the boundary and the boundary, it sounds like in this situation is that it’s time to wear pajamas, right? We got to go to bed to wear pajamas right now, some families may say that’s not a boundary. That’s important to me.

 

00;09;42;29 – 00;09;57;27

Dr. Mona

Like, I don’t care if the child stays in regular clothes. But we are using this as an example of this is a boundary that’s important to you guys. And I agree. That’s fine. So now you are verbalizing the feeling that I see that you don’t want it. But now we are going to also hold the boundary, which is what you guys are doing.

 

00;09;57;27 – 00;10;15;20

Dr. Mona

So you want to say, hey, I see that you really don’t want to wear pajamas and you really like your outfit, but we have to put pajamas on and then you’re giving her the two options that you did, which I think is beautiful. Now, the thing about verbalization is that it also matters how we deliver the verbalization. And I’m going to give some examples.

 

00;10;15;20 – 00;10;32;21

Dr. Mona

So to really matters. And also if you’re finding that the verbalization is just making the child extremely agitated, like I don’t know if you’ve ever been in this moment with her where you’re trying to verbalize, I see, I see and she’s literally just screaming at the top of her lungs, okay.

 

00;10;32;23 – 00;10;33;01

Amy

Yeah.

 

00;10;33;01 – 00;10;53;23

Dr. Mona

So let’s talk about what we do in those two situations. The first one being the tone of voice that you use when you’re verbalizing, which I think is actually really important, and that is the inflection that we use. That is the emotion that we’re bringing behind the verbalizing. I’ll explain that. And then also what’s happening when, you know, she’s screaming on the top of the lungs and she can’t hear you, right?

 

00;10;53;23 – 00;11;19;12

Dr. Mona

Because when they’re screaming at the top of their lungs, verbalizing is really, truly more for us than it is for them. And I’m going to be honest, I think for young children, the verbalizing is important for them to hear with repetition, but it’s also really for us to control our emotions, to maybe relax a little bit because I don’t know if you’ve been there, but sometimes just say you’re having a really hard day, sometimes just talking to yourself like, okay, Amy, you got this.

 

00;11;19;12 – 00;11;45;15

Dr. Mona

Like you can do it like and just really talking yourself down and verbalizing with yourself can calm you down. So I like to use the example of let’s use verbalization as sure this is going to be for them to know that we see them and that we are really okay with their feelings, but also that it’s really going to be a way that we can use as a tool to calm ourselves down in a situation that’s getting escalated, right, that the child is starting to thrash themselves backwards or getting really upset.

 

00;11;45;15 – 00;12;01;21

Dr. Mona

So talking about tone of voice, we want to really avoid, oh, this is really hard, but we want to avoid the right. So I’m going to use an example of verbalizing okay. So with the example that you gave, I know you don’t want to put your pajamas on, but we really need to put them on. It’s very important.

 

00;12;01;21 – 00;12;21;06

Dr. Mona

We have to go to bed. That’s very important okay. That’s one example. You can feel that I’m stressed like I think that there’s definitely some tension there that I’m saying the same words. But listen to this version, same thing. I can see that you really do not want your pajamas, and you really want to wear your clothes from the day, but we have to put our pajamas on.

 

00;12;21;12 – 00;12;46;18

Dr. Mona

We have to go to bed, and part of going to bed is putting on our pajamas. I see that you’re really upset. So the difference here is the same words, but with different tone of voice. And I want to be very clear on tone of voice, because it’s really easy for us as parents when we’re tired, especially during bedtime at the end of the day, for the verbalized to come out with the tone of let’s move this along, said, I’m frustrated because it is frustrating.

 

00;12;46;18 – 00;12;51;27

Dr. Mona

I’m not going to deny it, that it’s extremely hard when you’re trying to just get to the bedtime so that.

 

00;12;51;27 – 00;12;52;13

Amy

Maybe you can.

 

00;12;52;13 – 00;13;20;29

Dr. Mona

Sleep and your child is just not cooperating. But as part of being a very conscious parent is really saying, okay, I’m going to really be very aware of this feeling in this moment that this is very hard for me. And sometimes it’s going to be taking a breath before you even start that verbalizing and just saying, I see that you’re really upset right now, and I feel that you really want to wear your clothes from the day, but we have to put our pajamas on, and you’re taking that moment to really center yourself.

 

00;13;21;02 – 00;13;39;04

Dr. Mona

So the verbalization is coming from a place that there’s no rise, there’s no tone issue there, right? Like, right. I’m sure you all can kind of think about times where your tone is going to a level of, I may be saying the right thing, but my body language and my tone is coming off different than what I’m saying at my words.

 

00;13;39;06 – 00;13;59;17

Dr. Mona

And that is really comments. So much of verbalization I’m putting that in quotes is nonverbal. Okay, it sounds weird because I just said verbalization, but so much of it is body language. So much of it is how is my body acting with you when you’re showing signs of being in a tantrum and you’re using the example of when your daughter starts to scream on the top of the lungs?

 

00;13;59;20 – 00;14;18;14

Dr. Mona

Yeah, I would verbalize once at that point again and say, I see someone write her name. I see, I see that you’re really frustrated and I’m going to give you a moment. I’m right here. Right. You’re giving her a moment, or you can give her a big hug. If she lets you give a hug or if it means that you have to help her get the pajamas on that night, right?

 

00;14;18;14 – 00;14;19;03

Amy

Yeah. To move.

 

00;14;19;03 – 00;14;35;23

Dr. Mona

Things along. You can do that in a very loving way. I see that you’re really upset. The mommy is going to use her body to help you put your pajamas on, and I’m going to help you. Right. And your verbal. That’s part of verbalization, right? So you’re saying it once, and then you can move through what you need to do, rather than sitting and waiting for her to do it.

 

00;14;35;28 – 00;14;56;15

Dr. Mona

But you want to be very kind with the motion, right. You’re not pinning her down. You’re not forceful. You’re just being very matter of fact. Like. Right. I see that you’re really upset. Mommy, help you tonight. Move this. And if it’s to a point where you want to give her space because she’s just completely dysregulated, like I’ve been in this moments when out of the blue, it’s like, why are you so dysregulated?

 

00;14;56;21 – 00;15;13;08

Dr. Mona

Some times it means sitting on the ground with her. Or just so you’ve already put her in the crib. You’re giving example, if they’re upset and just sitting or standing with them in silence, meaning that is part of okay, the feeling too, right? That you are not scared of their feelings. You are not going to run away from their feelings.

 

00;15;13;08 – 00;15;27;11

Dr. Mona

You’re not going to leave them alone. When they’re having these big feelings. You are literally just going to stand there and say, I know you’re really upset right now. I see that you’re really upset. If you need a moment, I’m here and I’m going to take some deep breaths. And if you want to take deep breaths with mommy, you can take deep breaths.

 

00;15;27;18 – 00;15;46;11

Dr. Mona

It doesn’t mean that they’re going to take the deep breaths. But what we’re doing in these moments is huge for me, and that we are modeling the behavior that we want them to model when they’re dysregulated, right? That the more you keep doing this, the more that you avoid the rise when they’re getting upset, the more that you model relaxing your body and also taking breaths.

 

00;15;46;19 – 00;16;03;22

Dr. Mona

And they’re going to see what time that, hey, every time I get upset, my caregiver had two options. They could either join me in my chaos and get really upset too, or they can just take a moment. They see that I’m feeling a little upset, but they also just pause and took some deep breaths. And maybe that’s something that I’ll learn to do eventually.

 

00;16;03;22 – 00;16;20;12

Dr. Mona

Like it’s the modeling and it’s repetition. And that goes back to the misconception that I was going to mention, and that sometimes we feel like the verbalization is going to end it. No, the verbalization is part of the process. It’s part of them feeling seen. And the more they feel seen, I’m not going to give a number, right?

 

00;16;20;13 – 00;16;36;27

Dr. Mona

It’s not like ten times you do this and then the 11 time because toddlers brains don’t work that way. It’s not like we do it and it stays forever. But I can tell you that the more that you do this as a parent of a 27 month old that you’re verbalizing zero, kicking the feeling you’re giving her space if she needs it, relaxing your body.

 

00;16;36;27 – 00;16;57;24

Dr. Mona

Your breath is getting relaxed and sometimes it means taking an obvious breath. I’m feeling really upset right now too. I’m going to take a deep breath. Well, that made mommy feel better. She may be screaming and crying while you do that right, but you are going to continue to say, I feel really upset. I’m going to do it one more time and then you give her some space.

 

00;16;57;24 – 00;17;16;03

Dr. Mona

Meaning just some don’t fill the space with any words. And then after a little bit you can say again, I see that you’re really upset. I think sometimes what we want to do so much in verbalization is continue to fill the space with verbalization. Yeah, and that isn’t the goal that’s actually imagine me and you and Amy. You’re very upset right now.

 

00;17;16;08 – 00;17;31;13

Dr. Mona

Like, just so you tell me this story that happened to you at work or something. And I keep saying, oh, Amy, I see that you’re really upset. I see that you’re really upset. I’m here for you. I know that you really are not happy about your job, and sometimes you’re like, whoa, Mona, I like, just can I just like, like, feel a little bit like.

 

00;17;31;13 – 00;17;32;18

Amy

Right, right.

 

00;17;32;18 – 00;17;51;14

Dr. Mona

Just one verbalization piece is all we need. So let me have to. And then we have to just sit with the uncomfortable feeling of the crying or the tantrum and just say, I’m here. I’m not going anywhere. I’ll give you a moment. I’ll give you a moment. And if you do not have the moment, let’s use an example of you needing to leave the house to put on shoes and go to school.

 

00;17;51;20 – 00;18;05;26

Dr. Mona

Okay? Like preschool. That’s a moment that I gave the example of. I see that you’re really upset right now, but we have to move to get to school. And I’m going to help you by putting your shoes on, and I love you, and I’m going to help you. And that’s when you can start to do more of the distraction that you did.

 

00;18;05;26 – 00;18;35;03

Dr. Mona

Right. You can start writing songs, you can start to use humor because you recognize the feeling, but you also need to move on with your day. So that’s kind of the way that we balance that, right? Because I get it. Sometimes you don’t have 50 40 minutes for them to like have the feeling and then do it. Yeah, but but it is important to kind of utilize these skills so that we are understanding that verbalization, the tool in verbalization is that we are with repetition, making sure that they’re seen, that we recognize their feelings as valid feelings.

 

00;18;35;10 – 00;18;51;21

Dr. Mona

But some of that can be done by just sitting in the same room with your child without even saying a word. Some of that can be done with just the tone that we use, and not even just the amount of words that we’re using to fill the space. You know, sometimes, like I said, I think we do try to fill a lot of it.

 

00;18;51;21 – 00;19;10;20

Dr. Mona

And I think I made that mistake, too. With Ryan. I would try because maybe a lot of this happens when they’re not as verbal, like, you know, just saying there’s talking, but not as, you know, verbose is like a three year old. When he was younger, I would try to fill the space with so much verbalization. And I’m like, this isn’t going anywhere, because he’s not even listening to all of that verbalization.

 

00;19;10;22 – 00;19;29;20

Dr. Mona

So like I said, one is enough. Pausing doing it again. But a lot of it is used for us as well to say, okay, I’m going to use this tone. I’m going to take a deep breath. I’m going to verbalize, because sometimes verbalization helps us through that moment, right? That calming of like, okay, I see that you’re really upset.

 

00;19;29;20 – 00;19;51;29

Dr. Mona

I’m upset too. I know that it’s really hard. You really want to wear your outfit and it’s just that calming presence that it can give us. And if it’s not giving you that, then we have to say, okay, I’m going to just be quiet. I’m going to relax my body. I’m going to take that deep breath and I’m going to model this, and I’m going to give her a moment, and then I’m going to when I’m feeling regulated as an adult, that I’m going to start verbalizing again.

 

00;19;52;03 – 00;20;14;25

Dr. Mona

But again, just quick verbalization. I see that you’re really upset. I see that you want it to wear your outfit and you don’t want to wear pajamas. I get it, it’s bedtime. Like then you move on with what you need to do, right? It’s I can you can fall into the trap of trying to explain so much. When I encourage families not to try to explain when they’re upset, try not to explain so much of the why.

 

00;20;14;25 – 00;20;34;26

Dr. Mona

Because like I said already, the toddler brain doesn’t know so much of processing wise. But I think it’s reasonable to do that when they’re calm, but when they’re upset, they’re active. Part of the brain right now is not registering logic, right? It’s only registering emotion. So we have to meet their emotional dysregulation with emotion. Right? Like right I see that you’re upset.

 

00;20;34;26 – 00;20;45;24

Dr. Mona

So rather than oh I see that you’re upset. But we got to put the pajamas on because it’s what we need to do because then that’s just it’s not going to really register with them. And then you’re just filling the space, like I said.

 

00;20;45;26 – 00;20;48;26

Amy

Right, right. That makes sense. Yeah.

 

00;20;48;29 – 00;20;58;22

Dr. Mona

And would you say that these tips already are things that maybe you could add, or maybe you’re like, oh yeah, we could have done that a little different or anything like that.

 

00;20;58;24 – 00;21;18;23

Amy

Yeah, absolutely. I think you hit the nail on the head with like my, our tone and body language because it’s true. Yeah. After an exhausting day, like, you’re just like, can we go to bed so I can have, you know, my to finish work or do whatever I need to do? And so the tone that I take all the time is, okay, let’s, you know, I said, but we got to change, right?

 

00;21;18;23 – 00;21;34;01

Amy

So, yeah, I kind of taking that minute to pause, check my own tone, you know, kind of model the behavior that I want for her, I think. Yeah, a lot of the times just got worked up and frustrated. And that probably about shows to her.

 

00;21;34;03 – 00;21;49;20

Dr. Mona

Yeah. And it’s really hard. But with practice you’re going to see with time the benefits. And I always say I don’t want parents to ever think that anything we do with behavior, discipline, whatever you want to call it, that it’s going to be you do it once and it changes their life forever. Right? Because. Right. Because it is a game of repetition.

 

00;21;49;20 – 00;22;04;22

Dr. Mona

It is a game of consistency, like you said. And sometimes you’re going to have a moment where you’re a little more rushed or a little more of that voice is going to come, and that’s okay. That’s we’re human. But it’s really like that most of the time. Right? But 80% of the time that you’re saying, okay, here’s what we’re going to do.

 

00;22;04;22 – 00;22;23;25

Dr. Mona

And it’s all about also internally looking at your level of dysregulation too at that moment, because I can’t stress enough how often that can actually affect that moment. Right. Because when our kids are upset, it’s so easy for us to feel stressed and flustered because it’s human nature, right? We look at a kid crying as a threat, right?

 

00;22;23;25 – 00;22;41;29

Dr. Mona

Like this is something’s in distress, something’s bad, something’s in danger, and that’s a human response to someone crying and upset. But then we also have to say, well, no, I’m in control of my brain. I’m going to tell my brain that we are safe, that my kid is safe, my kid’s not hurt, and that I am going to be this leader of my house, that we’re going to do this and that we’re going to get to bed time.

 

00;22;41;29 – 00;22;59;26

Dr. Mona

And I’ve been there. I know how hard it is, especially when they’re just like screaming in your face. And it’s I kind of go the opposite that when they’re screaming louder, I get much lower. You want it when they’re getting loud. Remember, you want to get much more calm. You want to quietly, almost. And that may mean not saying anything, right?

 

00;22;59;26 – 00;23;05;04

Dr. Mona

Because that is the opposite of what we think we should do. When someone’s yelling, we want to. Okay, okay, okay.

 

00;23;05;04 – 00;23;06;07

Amy

I gotcha. Yeah.

 

00;23;06;09 – 00;23;28;21

Dr. Mona

Or maybe our voice goes higher, but what we’re trying to do is really calm them down. But this verbalization is part of that big picture, right? This I don’t want us to stop verbalizing. I think verbalizing is a huge benefit. And like I said, I think with time they do understand that. Oh yeah, my parent is present and okay, you know, understands my feelings and this is such an important thing.

 

00;23;28;21 – 00;23;44;17

Dr. Mona

But I don’t want us to ever think that it’s going to be the changing point in a tantrum or in a discipline moment that you’re going to verbalize, and they’re going to be like, oh, yes, I got to put my pajamas on. That’s not how the toddler brain works. They’re going to be very much like, okay. And then with time and repetition, they’re going to get it right.

 

00;23;44;17 – 00;24;03;01

Amy

Right. Okay. No, that makes a lot of sense. And I think the other thing that you said that really resonated is actually like having to go through with the action, even when they’re kind of having the tantrum. That’s a part I struggle with because I feel like I’m torturing her by her screams. If I’m, like, actively trying to change her while she is protesting.

 

00;24;03;03 – 00;24;17;17

Amy

Yeah, we just need to do it. Yeah. So that’s helpful to think about it. So like, if we really need to move on and I gotta change her to kind of verbalize or kind of talk through, you know, that I love you and all of that while gentle as a fashion as possible.

 

00;24;17;21 – 00;24;33;13

Dr. Mona

And I get where that comes from because of course we’re trying to be okay with their feeling. But then so we’re not trying to force them into anything, or we want to give them that control and that power of feeling. But there’s a balance there. And I think I’ve spoken on another episode about this that I recognize that sometimes it’s things need to happen.

 

00;24;33;13 – 00;24;51;00

Dr. Mona

And we in an ideal world, yes, we would wait until they do it on their own volition. But but remember, there’s a physical balance of how we’re doing that, right? We’re being very kind with our gestures and how we’re holding our child. Right. And so when Ryan has gone through these moments, you know, I like if we have omnis example of trying to get shoes on to get out of the house.

 

00;24;51;00 – 00;25;05;27

Dr. Mona

Okay. You know what I mentioned earlier. You know, he’ll be upset. He’s like, I don’t want to go. And I’m like, I see that you really don’t want to go. And mommy is just going to help you, and I’m going to put your shoe on and you have big dinosaur feet, and I’ll make a little joke about it, and he’ll say, okay, he’ll kind of half cry, half laugh, right?

 

00;25;05;27 – 00;25;19;19

Dr. Mona

I’ll be like, and I’ll be like, I love you so much. And I see that you really don’t want it. But then we’ll just we’ll move on. Right. It’s we have to move on in life. But if I waited for 40 minutes for him to come around, or when he decides that’s not always going to happen, like sometimes it will, right?

 

00;25;19;19 – 00;25;46;02

Dr. Mona

Like. But it’s reality. I recognize that as a parent that sometimes we gotta just move through. But moving through doesn’t have to be harsh, right? To move through doesn’t mean that you’re like, come on. Like, get over it. No, we’re not saying that. We’re saying, I see that you really want this. But listen, I’m mommy’s going to help you and I’m going to give you a big hug and then, you know, give them a big bear hug while you’re trying to put the pajama bottoms on or the pajama top on, you know, and, and smooch their cheeks a little bit, you know, like, show them love and that you are not.

 

00;25;46;06 – 00;26;07;25

Dr. Mona

Again, the fact that you are not joining her tantrum or joining the chaos is huge for them to see. I feel like this is like one of my biggest parenting hack. Like people ask like, what is being calm when your child is upset is probably one of the biggest gifts we can give them, because that is something that with time they learn to model and then they also is a way of saying the feeling right?

 

00;26;07;25 – 00;26;09;03

Amy

Because, right, you didn’t.

 

00;26;09;03 – 00;26;22;03

Dr. Mona

Get upset with them, you didn’t get irate, you didn’t leave the room, you didn’t do anything. You were like, I see that you’re upset. I’m here. We’re going to move along, I love you, I’m still going to give you kisses. It’s okay that you’re upset like that is part of the feeling. And that’s one.

 

00;26;22;03 – 00;26;22;24

Amy

Part, right?

 

00;26;23;01 – 00;26;41;15

Dr. Mona

That’s hearts and kisses and love and that’s part of the okay of that whole emotional experience they go through when they don’t get what they want, because that’s going to be their reality, right? They’re not always going to get what they want, but we have to move through the boundaries. Like I said, we got to move through the events of the night or the day, whatever we need to do.

 

00;26;41;22 – 00;26;57;17

Dr. Mona

And it is a point of getting them calm and not dysregulated. You know, it’s okay at this age. I don’t like when a kid like Ryan, when I was so dysregulated at bedtime, like he was, he was crying. And I’m like, well, I’m not going to be leaving until he comes down, right? Like, yeah, at this age, I don’t want a kid to be dysregulated at bedtime.

 

00;26;57;17 – 00;27;11;15

Dr. Mona

And I just I’m going to leave the room. And, you know, I like to I had to get to a point where that meant that in my head, what I had to tell myself was, Moana, I know you really like your alone time. I know the next two hours mean a lot to you. But we need to stay calm.

 

00;27;11;15 – 00;27;29;07

Dr. Mona

We really need to get through this moment so that we can put him down, that he’s safe and that you’ll get. You’ll get maybe an hour or an hour and a half, maybe it’s going to be shorter than what you normally got. But this is important for the family, right? This is important for this moment that we get through this moment and put you to sleep in a non dysregulated way.

 

00;27;29;07 – 00;27;45;19

Dr. Mona

Right. And it took a while. I mean, this was like a fluke event where I was like, why is he so upset? And it took me just doing what I mentioned to you, like really just sometimes I just stood there by his crib and he cried and he was really upset. And he’s like, just gibberish. And he knows that this thing and he was just gibberish.

 

00;27;45;26 – 00;28;00;09

Dr. Mona

And I literally just said, hey, I’m here if you want a hug, I’m here if you want a hug. And he like, give you like no hug. And then I just stood there and I just stared at him and I just didn’t even say anything. And then finally he’s like, mommy hug. And then he gave me a hug at the end and it ended.

 

00;28;00;15 – 00;28;15;25

Dr. Mona

And he fell. And then he’s like, mommy, I go to bed. I was like, what happened? A lot of it is just then realizing that you’re not scared of them, like you’re there with them, that these big feelings don’t bother you. As much as I know they do. I’m not ever going to discount the fact that, oh my gosh, when they’re crying and you’re like, wow.

 

00;28;15;25 – 00;28;29;03

Dr. Mona

Like it’s very hard for us to hear as parents and I, I will always say that I’m first to admit that, my gosh, like, as any mother or parent would agree that it’s very hard hearing them be upset, even if it’s for the most trivial of things. Like there’s.

 

00;28;29;05 – 00;28;29;22

Amy

Yeah.

 

00;28;29;25 – 00;28;35;26

Dr. Mona

I get it. Is there anything else, any other question about the scenario or the tips that I gave you that you wanted to clarify?

 

00;28;35;28 – 00;28;59;28

Amy

Yeah, I mean I yeah, I think all of that is helpful. I think, you know, definitely looking at my own behavior is important. I think the other kind of thing that you just mentioned to with like, yeah, sometimes it will bite into like what I, you know, consider like my alone time and again the kind of scheduled person because I see the clock and it’s approaching eight and we’re not, you know, ready for bed yet because you can’t get her pajamas on or whenever she’s biting.

 

00;28;59;28 – 00;29;24;25

Amy

Bedtime that I get more stressed up as I see that. So maybe like talking through. I think you kind of did touch on that too. Like, you know, what do you do with those moments where you’re feeling the stress or the pressure? And that’s kind of, you know, that reflecting on that, can we hurry up like, you know, what else can we do to kind of shuffle things along, to move things along with them, to get to whatever the next activity or to bedtime or whatever?

 

00;29;24;28 – 00;29;39;06

Dr. Mona

Oh, yeah. And that’s why I love having these conversations. Because on these Monday episodes, because it’s not just so much about, okay, here’s what you do in your child’s discipline verbalizing. It’s the feeling, right? It’s the yelling of when it doesn’t work or when you’re like, dang, why aren’t you listening to me? And it is like, I like.

 

00;29;39;06 – 00;29;55;00

Dr. Mona

To be honest. Yes, I think most people listening to this episode right now will say a lot of the reason why bedtime can be so stressful is the long day being prolonged for a bedtime, and then also the time it cuts into our very precious a long time. That right everyone can agree that is very hard to come by.

 

00;29;55;00 – 00;30;08;02

Dr. Mona

Especially I don’t care what you’re doing, but working mom, staying home or whatever it is like oh my gosh, but we have to. And I go back to that, that we have to recognize that this is the mindful moment that we’re in. Right? There’s child needs to be put to bed and we’re the only one doing it. Right.

 

00;30;08;02 – 00;30;22;19

Dr. Mona

Unless you have a parent that’s going to tag team with you that night and or you take turns, I usually advise what I usually say is like, we want if it’s at like, for example, me and my husband, I do bedtime when my husband’s working, but when my husband is home, he does bedtime and it’s him. So I do the baths.

 

00;30;22;19 – 00;30;36;16

Dr. Mona

He does the bed. There’s no mommy coming in, daddy coming in. We actually separate it so that it’s very consistent. And so Ryan understands that when dad’s your dad’s doing bedtime, when mommy’s here, mommy is doing bedtime, but there’s no like, okay, now I want mommy. Okay. No, I.

 

00;30;36;16 – 00;30;37;17

Amy

Did that back and forth.

 

00;30;37;24 – 00;30;47;04

Dr. Mona

Yeah, back and forth. Very consistent with that. Right. But now when my husband’s at work or he’s on a vacation, it’s like, daddy’s not here, it’s mommy’s turn. And then back and forth like that. And he.

 

00;30;47;04 – 00;30;47;25

Amy

Knows. Yeah.

 

00;30;47;25 – 00;31;03;07

Dr. Mona

And he knows. And that is really helpful to that consistency. Like I said, it can be you know that big sort of like okay well now I don’t have the time. And this and that. And it’s really a matter of me saying this is my son. Like, I have to put him to bed. Like, yeah, I’m the only one.

 

00;31;03;13 – 00;31;17;23

Dr. Mona

And the best way this is going to happen is if I control my reaction like I can’t. Like there has been not this scenario, but there’s been so many bedtime struggles of like installing a crib. So jumping in the crib, yeah. Playing games with me, like, I, you know, I’ll see. Where do you want to be tucked?

 

00;31;17;23 – 00;31;34;01

Dr. Mona

And he’ll point to, like, the wall. Like I want that tucked on the wall, like, oh, and I’ll say part of verbalization is, well, we can’t be trapped on the wall. Where do you want to be tucked? Like, I literally will just say like that, like verbalize it and just repeat it in a very matter of fact calm way.

 

00;31;34;10 – 00;31;34;21

Amy

Okay.

 

00;31;34;25 – 00;31;37;11

Dr. Mona

Well, we can’t do that. Where do you want to be tucked?

 

00;31;37;14 – 00;31;37;26

Amy

Yeah.

 

00;31;37;28 – 00;31;52;08

Dr. Mona

It could be a broken record like five, six times in that, that scenario that I’m saying, okay, where do you want to go? I’m going to talk to you. Mommy’s going to leave soon. Where do you want to be tucked? Where do you want to be tucked? And I literally will just take a moment. And sometimes he’ll jump in the crib and just.

 

00;31;52;08 – 00;32;07;24

Dr. Mona

And I’ll stare at him and I’ll just say, I’m waiting. And I’ll just say, I’ll just stand there and I’m waiting. And then he’ll lay down. And it’s that reaction, right? It’s the we do not want to say, oh, sweetie, come on, put on your pajamas. Because that is what they want. They want.

 

00;32;07;26 – 00;32;10;06

Amy

They want action. I want that reaction.

 

00;32;10;12 – 00;32;25;12

Dr. Mona

So if we did that you’re going to be in there longer, right. So that’s why I’m saying also that the more you can tell yourself, okay, if I stay calm in this moment, I will get to my alone time. It’s going to be glorious. It might be shorter than I expected. That’s okay. But I also know that my child will feel loved.

 

00;32;25;16 – 00;32;26;05

Dr. Mona

My child will get.

 

00;32;26;05 – 00;32;26;24

Dr. Mona

What they needed.

 

00;32;26;28 – 00;32;41;16

Dr. Mona

And I got to be the one to do this right. My partner may not be here, or if they are, it’s not their turn and this is what needs to happen. And that is hard to do, right? Because we go back to the what do I need as a parent? And I’m not saying that we all love our alone time, but the kid needs to be put to bed, right?

 

00;32;41;16 – 00;32;56;05

Dr. Mona

And so that’s part of being just a very mindful, conscious parent is that you gotta do it. And that’s verbalizing too, that you can tell yourself when you take that deep breath, okay, I got this. I’m a rock star parent. I’m going to do this. I’m going to put my kid to bed, and then I’m going to go, we’re going to have a great evening.

 

00;32;56;05 – 00;33;12;02

Dr. Mona

But to help pep yourself up in that moment that you need it. Right. Maybe when you’re about to walk into the room and bedtime is a struggle every night with you all with the Pajama Games, right? Yeah. Pep talk yourself during that time or whatever it is, and mentally tell yourself, I got this. We’re going to do this, we can handle it.

 

00;33;12;02 – 00;33;18;00

Dr. Mona

And I’m capable because that may help that energy of what I’m saying with all the nonverbal communication, right.

 

00;33;18;01 – 00;33;18;10

Amy

The way.

 

00;33;18;10 – 00;33;20;06

Dr. Mona

We relax our body and all of that.

 

00;33;20;09 – 00;33;44;10

Amy

Yeah. Yeah I think that’s that’s super helpful. Yeah. I think it’s definitely looking at myself and how I respond and not giving in to the short game, which I think happens more often that I would like to just like, okay, whatever you need to do to get to that, it makes you happy. And then we go through the whole back and forth of negotiating and things like that, instead of just staying consistent and knowing that over time, like it will be the benefit.

 

00;33;44;13 – 00;33;58;23

Dr. Mona

Yeah. And I mean, I could do a whole different episode on bedtime battles because this kind of goes into bedtime battles. It is. Yeah, I know we talked about. Yeah, sure. But like the whole like, now I want water, now I need a hug, now I need this. I mean, that is a whole different conversation, which. Okay, but this is part of it, right?

 

00;33;58;24 – 00;34;17;08

Dr. Mona

It’s we talked about that, like with the verbalizing, with being very insistent on what is the boundary going to be in the situation right for you. Yes. She has to put her pajamas on. Right. Which I respect and I agree with like we also do pajamas in our family. And so it’s definitely about that consistency. And I think you’re going to see the changes with the consistency on how you’re approaching.

 

00;34;17;08 – 00;34;21;13

Dr. Mona

But also when you start talking to yourself more and realizing with yourself more.

 

00;34;21;15 – 00;34;22;12

Amy

Right, we need to.

 

00;34;22;12 – 00;34;37;14

Dr. Mona

Get through these moments and you’re going to see that. She’s also going to mirror your reactions, right? This to talking about with the modeling. It doesn’t mean it’s going to happen next Friday or, you know, a week from today, but it’s yeah, it’s going to happen with time. And you’re going to when you finally see that start to happen, you’re going to be like, whoa.

 

00;34;37;18 – 00;34;38;26

Amy

Oh, wow. Yeah.

 

00;34;39;02 – 00;34;48;17

Dr. Mona

It worked. And and that does it. Also, just as a final heads up, it doesn’t mean that that’s going to stick for the rest of her childhood like that. She’s going to be this angel of a girl who never shows.

 

00;34;48;17 – 00;34;50;00

Amy

Have intention.

 

00;34;50;03 – 00;35;06;24

Dr. Mona

Of descent because that’s not there. Humans, right? Of course. Right. And I agree with everything that we do, but it’s this concept of that consistency that is really, I think, incredible. And but set back and forth to that, I see that you’re really you don’t want to do this and I see it. But we’re going to do this right now and that’s it and move on.

 

00;35;06;24 – 00;35;17;08

Dr. Mona

And no big lengthy explanation needed unless, unless the explanation helps you in calming down, then that’s fine. But otherwise we don’t need to go into lengthy explanations for them.

 

00;35;17;10 – 00;35;18;18

Amy

It’s a why are you?

 

00;35;18;18 – 00;35;24;13

Dr. Mona

Yeah. The why me for you. Right. Like yeah. After that I see that you’re upset. It’s all for you.

 

00;35;24;15 – 00;35;25;10

Amy

Okay? It’s all for.

 

00;35;25;10 – 00;35;43;21

Dr. Mona

You. Do that. And that’s nothing. That’s something that is actually can be powerful. But for them, it’s just they need to know that you’re not going anywhere and that you are not scared of their feelings. And I know you’re I know you’re doing that. So I hope I hope like I said at the beginning, I hope that this made you realize that you’re actually not doing a lot of things wrong, like you said, like you’re like, I don’t know if we’re doing it wrong.

 

00;35;43;26 – 00;35;58;29

Dr. Mona

We just need to reframe how we’re approaching the verbalization and maybe how we’re approaching those moments when there is dissent and screaming and anger from her. You know, that is not the natural reaction to not getting what they want as toddlers. But I hope this was helpful.

 

00;35;59;02 – 00;36;09;11

Amy

This was very helpful. Lots of great tips that will know. Kind of start implementing right away. Yeah, really appreciate it. Very very helpful.

 

00;36;09;13 – 00;36;33;16

Dr. Mona

I really love these conversations with all of you from the doctor community, because we can have that back and forth. Take me into that moment of the situation so we can really figure out how to help. In this conversation with Amy, we talk about the concept of verbalization. And to wrap up this episode, I want to talk about three parenting principles that relate to verbalization.

 

00;36;33;19 – 00;36;55;05

Dr. Mona

So verbalizing is a really important concept, like I said, because it shows your child that you are okay with their feelings, that their feelings are valid. And some of the times, like I said, we feel like we need to do this too much. We fill that space, we continue you to talk and verbalize. It is really important to normalize our child’s feelings.

 

00;36;55;08 – 00;37;18;00

Dr. Mona

But like I said in the episode, this can be done with verbalization. It also can be done non-verbally, meaning in the body language, in the way that we are showing that we are there for our children without saying a word, normalizing feelings help our children be seen, and by normalizing the breadth of human emotions we experience, that is when we can teach them coping skills.

 

00;37;18;00 – 00;37;35;00

Dr. Mona

We can teach them all the things we want them to learn about emotional regulation. But if they don’t know what emotions are, and if they feel like some of their emotions are negative, or that we are going to shame them or not love them, they’re not going to be likely to express them so they can learn how to process them.

 

00;37;35;02 – 00;37;52;07

Dr. Mona

So yes, normalizing feelings is really important. And it is a parenting principle that I think is very vital. However, how we approach that with the verbalization, like I mentioned on the episode, we talk about the things that we say, but we also have to take a step back when we feel like we’re filling the space with too many words.

 

00;37;52;13 – 00;38;18;02

Dr. Mona

Sometimes that means principle number two, which is pausing. Pausing means taking that breath before we start to just fill that space with verbalizing and verbalizing, we have to really look into ourselves and feel, are we getting worked up in the situation? Are we sort of getting dysregulated with our child’s dysregulation? It’s really hard not to get there, but it’s important to be aware and take that pause.

 

00;38;18;04 – 00;38;37;18

Dr. Mona

Control your emotions, get into a state of regulation yourself so that you can verbalize in a very matter of fact and calm way. I see that you’re really upset versus oh gosh, I see that you’re upset and you want to get your pajamas on. It’s really important to control your tone. And that is a huge.

 

00;38;37;18 – 00;38;38;12

Dr. Mona

Part of.

 

00;38;38;12 – 00;39;02;08

Dr. Mona

Verbalization. Not only the words that we say, but the tone that we see them in. Number three is avoiding that big rise. And I mentioned this a lot. You know, this is actually a principle that I think is very important in so many different parenting scenarios. But it’s so important in this situation as well. When we verbalize, like I mentioned, the goal of verbalization is one wanting to make the child understand that they are seen.

 

00;39;02;11 – 00;39;19;25

Dr. Mona

Number two, it can really help us calm ourselves down. The goal of verbalization should not be that at that moment they are going to listen to everything you say, that the verbalization meant that they now are going to be an obedient child. That’s not the goal. The goal is for them to understand with time that hey, I am seen by my caregiver.

 

00;39;20;02 – 00;39;46;03

Dr. Mona

They are setting this very healthy boundary for me and that is the norm in this house. And I am safe by avoiding the big rise, we are not joining their chaos. We are being the calm leader of the House. We are saying it’s okay that you’re feeling this way and we are going to get through this. Avoiding the rise is one of the biggest parenting principles that really helps in so many situations, especially in moments of dysregulation.

 

00;39;46;05 – 00;40;12;22

Dr. Mona

Imagine if you and your partner were arguing and that person stayed extremely calm, but was still present with your feelings. I see that you’re really upset. I’m here. Let’s talk about this rather than them also getting upset yelling back at you. And that’s just a state of dysregulation for everyone. The calmness in a situation when someone’s dysregulated is extremely powerful and that can sometimes be no words at all.

 

00;40;12;24 – 00;40;33;08

Dr. Mona

I really enjoyed this conversation, as I do all of my Monday mornings with Doctor Mona episodes, because I get to talk to you from the doctor community. Remember that if you have a question for me and you want to be a guest, and to have that back and forth conversation about an issue with your child, make sure you sign up for my newsletter so that you can get the information.

 

00;40;33;08 – 00;40;44;09

Dr. Mona

When we are opening up the form to invite a guest. I love having these conversations with you. I love sharing this information with all of you, and I cannot wait to talk to another parent next time.